Gymnastics

[Stuffy]

1 hour ago, Darknight said:

See this is why I hope Simone is still able to go to Tokyo 2020. Another gymast spoke out and was black listed. It' sad this happened and nobody did anything. It's also sad parents will sell their own child out. 

Last I heard that's the goal for both Simone and Aly. I think Aly may want to go after the Shannon Miller olympic medal record. It won't be easy for either of them to make it because there's always someone younger in the pipeline.  Also if I remember right, the number of gymnasts per team is only four at the next Olympics.  However if anyone can do it it's those two. 

[methadonna]

10 hours ago, Stuffy said:

Also if I remember right, the number of gymnasts per team is only four at the next Olympics.  

Yes and no: yes, as of 2020, the team event will be made up of teams of four (with qualifiers being a 4:4:3 configuration and team finals remaining three up, three count).

(Thus, the 2016’s American WAG team’s self-designation as the FINAL Five: they were referencing the fact that they were the FINAL team to compete as a group of FIVE, along with celebrate the fact that, FINALly, they were the FINAL team who’d have to suffer with Martha as the Head Hog in Charge. Errr, I mean, honor her in her final year for all she’d  done to give them and gymnastics to Nassar and the many other abusers. (Especially now, for all of both how they played it and Martha’s I’m-a-real-person-now:see-my-tears-at-how-much-this-means-to-me, I choose to believe the young women were being as clever and manipulating as they believed they had the power to do, then, and spent their evenings laughing their heads off with glee and disbelief that they had pulled it off, that they had really named themselves to celebrate Martha’s going-away-ness and had convinced her and the world that it was to honor her and not that it was just more alliterative and possibly less copywritten than “Ding, dong, the witch is gone”).

However, also sort of no, as up to two MORE gymnasts per country can qualify for individual events, so “we” (Americans, touch wood, or  each of the twelve countries that qualify to compete in the team event), can expect for the US and the other typical “locks” to qualify a team to have six competitors (unless USAG implodes into itself and gets entirely sucked into the black hole it both created and became by trying to alter the laws of physics along with those of basic humanity. In which case we’ll just dress up Ragan in a cutesy all-black ensemble that doubles as Wednesday Adams’s dress and a black hole (memo to self: would a now 56-year- old Ragan cutesy-flooring in a black hole remain eye-stab-inducing cutesy and annoying? Or we’ll let her join the Chinese team, where her age-and-maturity-reversing powers will be admired in ways I’ll never understand. But, assuming there is anyone left to run USAG), we most definitely will be sending six athletes, not just four.

 

I can just picture the graphics and stories NBC is already working on (they still have a whole vault of inspirational videos on VHS about the Olympic Success of Vanessa Atler and are just waiting for the right girl to superimpose images of her head (on straight) on them. 

The opportunities for visual graphics to help explain and help show and overexplain and show the viewer that 4+2=6 will keep the NBC Graphics department/the girls busy at art and crafts time at Camp for two years—they might have to explain it even more than the green is good, yellow is questionable, red is The Place You Don’t Want To Be (besides with anyone who’s worked for USAG or Michigan State. Also known as the line for unemployment (why cash for all those deals was essential: using the athletes to launder money in and out of the country won’t be as easily arranged with a new doctor (too soon?), and they’re gonna have to hide their assets somewhere) hack to the CoP. No color-coded shapes for that one, but maybe some animal images to show 4+2=6 AND 6-2=4 will work.

 

But it’s the dueling narratives of failure for ONLY being a non-team Olympian and for The One Who Made It BECAUSE of This New Position and/or wouldn’t have made a team of five Because 6-1=5 That will be The Story of the Gymnastic Olympians After The Story of The Team is Over and NBC has to redirect us from There’s Only Four Gymnasts To There Are Six Gymnasts And Here Are the Two Who Won’t Even Be Important Enough To Get Yelled at on Twitter by Trump Because 6-4=2 (or he gets a real doctor by then who admits he has no idea if that is Real or Fake GyMathtics News).

By the time the individual competitions roll around and they’ve replayed the footage of our winning-at-all-costs team athletes eating their medals because now there’s no one to bring them food because as a doctor, you tell the coaches not to starve their gymnasts being only one to give starving international champion girls food because it makes you seem nice rather than such silliness as caring about their health, is like Grooming 101, we’ll get the packages about the two (6-4) Olympic Gymnasts no one acknowledged existed during the team competition.

 First, there’ll be Sad Stories of Olympic Failure Before It Starts Because She Always Dreamed She’d Be There As Part of a Team and Not JUST A Regular Ol’ Individual Olympic Athlete ?(play minor chords from Moulin Rouge; they still have it queued up from 2018 Games Figure Skating). Athlete Number Five will win a gold in her event final, but the overarching theme will be “Will she keep working on the other events to be good enough to stick around until 2024 and get that team medal that you know is what she REALLY wanted). Her story will end with a little bit of Carmen playing in the background, because, again, sticking with that Figure Skating Playlist from 2018. And maybe Alexa will be there to explain to the younger viewer, watching at home and hoping she’ll one day be on that podium, well, no, hoping she ‘s on The Team Event Podium ‘Cause that’s The One That Matters, That, back in early 2018, people lived like pioneers and many still had to listen to their music from their dumbphones and not from their watches or the chip implanted in their middle finger that can hold more pictures than the clouds and the sun together, and you’re all set, as long as you don’t lose your finger somewhere.

Speaking of:

more Stories, this time, happy ones, unless you’re Al, because this shouldn’t be happy if You Can’t Bite Your Olympic Medal In a Group Shot, so we’ll also get more of a tone/literal words that suggest 

It’s Ironic That For This Gymnast, The Team-Total Drop to the First Four Gave Her the Chance to Be the Olympian that just a Few Years Ago She Couldnt Imagine Possible Because 6-5=1 and Because Marta Had Cut Off Her Foot When She Made The Ranch Scale Hit “Stop,” As It Only Goes to 70 , just like the guy at the bariatric clinic without a bariatric scale on that new show My Auntie’s Sister’s Third-Cousin-Once-Removed And Everyone Else We Could Find On AncestorDotCom to Live Near Enough to Visit Each Other and Drive Around Eating Five Boxes of Pizza to Pre-Game For Our We’re-Not-Even/Extended/Family-We-Just-Got-Cast to Show How Fat Families Wipe Their Asses and Paint Their Toenails Pizza Party so We’d Weigh a Ton Because Dr Now is getting too Dr. Then So We Needed to Switch Up Our Fat Doctor TV Antihero Before Dr. That-Was-Then-That-WAS-Now Died and We Had to Rename It My 600-Feet-Under Life and Get The Audience Forgetting We’d Annointed Someone Else as Master Manipulator Fat Person Savior Last Week, Just Like We Did with Bradie and Skating Instead of.. .See It Worked You Forgot Already That She Wasn’t Originally Cast To Be the Original Designated Skating Princess (although Nathan Chen will get Paud a million times more money to reshoot those promos than Mirai, Karen, and the one who’s White and Blond and not 87 Like Mirai So She Gets To Be The Princess, combined), but Marta Knew The Original Cinderella and the Skaters Keep the Disney Princess Versions So She Knew Cutting Off the Foot of one of The Ugly Stepsisters To The Beautiful Team of Four Gymnasts Was The Way To The Judges’ Hearts(which respond better to athletes in a women’s sport who look more like helpless prepubescents than the strong adult athletes that “women’s gymnastics” suggests they be /to get 0.02 lbs Off and get The Scale in the Go Zone Again (just like she would have if she’d just waited until lunch weigh- in, dinner weigh- in, or Fake Laughing Time for those Assholes filming who want it to look like we’re at a summer camp and not a horror movie set), Which Left Our Gymnast both Allowed to Continue with the Honor of Training that Weekend Because She, literally, Cut Weight, But Without a Foot On Which to Train, So She Could Only Do Bars And Ragan’s Floor Routine Head-Boo-Dancing.

“Fours Years Ago, a Such a SpecificSpecialist Could Never Have Made It To The Olympics, But (begin ironic-sounding music from Moulin Rouge) Now, It’s Like The New Code Was Designed Just For Her and for NBC’s Cameras to Zoom In On the Glass Slipper that Is Sewn to Where Her Foot Used To Be. Yes, The Irony That We Have More Specialists thanirgs  All-Around Stars Now Because Marta and  Bela Kept Breaking Them Until Not Enough Gymnasts Had Enough Limbs To Excel On All Four Apparatus, Although You’d Think std that Missing Feet Would Make (contract says I get a bonus for every superfluous mention of this little-known fact) Balancing on TheBeamThatIsOnlyFourInchesWide Easier, Too, But, Ironically, She STUCK to Bars, and, now, Here She Is at The Olympics, Just Doing One Event To Go With Her Just One Foot Left. ::Story ends with wistful music from Moulin Rouge playing over an image of Bela holding the essentially-one-footed Kerri Strug Back in the Days of the Smagmificent Seven.

As the ranch gets raized in the background, we’re reminded that, even in the 90s, Bela was thinking ahead as to how best to hobble little girls for their 45 seconds on this, the Olympic Stage.. as the numbers on the team, like those on the scale, dropped. The Story closes with his feeding the animals at Camp (this time, literally; surely you knew he wasn’t using “animals” to describe the gymnasts in this context: he’s feeding them. Four little chickens plus two miniature pigs. Equal six animals that Ol’ McBela had on his farm.

 

tl;dr: official: http://www.fig-gymnastics.com/site/figNews/view?id=1151

and then

https://thegymter.net/2016/10/22/clearing-up-the-2020-confusion/amp/ is a helpful and easy to follow but detailed and more thorough  explanation of how this all works out: (less formal than FIG’s, more ... rooted in reality and sanity than mine. Now with extra star-shaped marshmallows.

Edited January 23, 2018 by methadonna

[Shangrilala]

Shawn Johnson speaks up and says that the entire organization needs to completely start over.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/01/gold-medalist-shawn-johnson-east-the-organization-i-have-trusted-my-entire-life-has-failed

[HartofDixie]

Joan Ryan (author of Little Girls in Pretty Boxes): https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/larry-nassar-just-beginning-gymnastics-culture-has-been-abusive-decades-ncna840001

[Indy]

Lolz, Geddert announced his retirement right after USAG suspended him. I'm sure that's just a coincidence 

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2018/01/23/twistars-geddert-says-email-families-he-plans-retire/1057165001/

[Shangrilala]

All of these people are amazingly dense when it comes to public intelligence.  Fucking idiots.  

[Minneapple]

I signed my daughter up for gymnastics after the last Olympics because she was dying to be the next Simone Biles. But we only lasted a couple months at the gym we went to because they wouldn't let parents watch classes. According to the coaches, parents being in the gym is a distraction for the kids. I realllly wasn't comfortable with that, seeing as how my daughter was only 5 years old. She wants to go back now, but I'm hesitant to sign her up again. 

I agree with Shawn Johnson that USA Gymnastics just needs to start all over. Just clean house.

[CeeBeeGee]

3 hours ago, Minneapple said:

I signed my daughter up for gymnastics after the last Olympics because she was dying to be the next Simone Biles. But we only lasted a couple months at the gym we went to because they wouldn't let parents watch classes. According to the coaches, parents being in the gym is a distraction for the kids. I realllly wasn't comfortable with that, seeing as how my daughter was only 5 years old. She wants to go back now, but I'm hesitant to sign her up again. 

I agree with Shawn Johnson that USA Gymnastics just needs to start all over. Just clean house.

That is utter fucking bullshit.

I am a sports professional who works with kids--I teach soccer to kids aged 12 months to 10 years old. I cannot even imagine a scenario wherein we denied the parents access. Your child is FIVE--at that age the kid (in our eyes) doesn't even know if they like the sport. It is our job to sell them on it. Working WITH the parents, we make the gym/pitch/whatever a supportive, fun, rewarding environment for the kids, to sell them that this sport is good for them, that they will have fun, that they can succeed. You can only do that with the parents. In fact we require the parents' presence--every so often a parent will ask me "is it okay if I step out to get a cup of coffee?" and I say it's fine but they have to clear that with me (because one of our rules is that the parent/nanny/grownup has to be there). Your child is FIVE. What the hell are these people doing banishing you?

Watched Mattie Larsen's testimony today. Again--Mattie, we love you. You are a strong and brave person for speaking up. I'm so sorry USAG failed you. You didn't deserve this.

[Shangrilala]

Quote

I agree with Shawn Johnson that USA Gymnastics just needs to start all over. Just clean house.

I agree with Shawn Johnson that I won't be putting my daughter in gymnastics.  

Something else that's bothering me about this -- where is the public outrage?  When the allegations about Harvey Weinstein broke, the media was everywhere.  The outrage was everywhere.  And it kept spreading, it seemed like you couldn't turn on the tv without another accusation and another predator being outed.  

But here we have the largest abuse scandal in sports history that spans from small gyms to a university to the Olympics.  The abuse of young girls - children - a system that enabled it - and adults who turned their fucking heads for a gold medal in the Olympics -- and where is the outrage?????  Today it has 1/3 of the page on CNN.  it's nowhere visible on Fox or MSNBC.  It's not on nytimes.com or washingtonpost.com.  WTF?  Now maybe I'm not seeing it because I've made a conscious effort to stay off of Facebook and other social media channels in the month of January (sidebar - an experience I highly recommend!), but let's face it.  The reason that ANYTHING is happening to push change along for this sport is because of 150 brave girls and women.  It's certainly not because anybody else is demanding it.  

 

ETA:  Just watched the sentencing.  I'm crying.  Justice for these poor girls.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Shangrilala

[legaleagle53]

Yeah, Larry Nassar just got 175 years, and the judge actually told him that she had just signed his death warrant.  She is also declining to do interviews without at least one of the victims present, saying "This isn't my story, it's theirs."  This is a judge who knows how to do her job!

Edited January 24, 2018 by legaleagle53

[HartofDixie]

https://deadspin.com/judge-reads-batshit-victim-blaming-letter-from-larry-na-1822379053

[legaleagle53]

10 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

https://deadspin.com/judge-reads-batshit-victim-blaming-letter-from-larry-na-1822379053

The look the judge gave him as she tossed the letter aside defies description. You could easily see just how thoroughly and utterly disgusted she was with him, yet to her credit, she remained calm and professional.  Brava, Your Honor!

[HartofDixie]

Judge Rosemarie Aquilina is a hero!

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/sports/larry-nassar-rosemarie-aquilina-judge.html

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/rosemarie-aquilina-larry-nassar-judge-aly-raisman-usa-gymnastics-a8176211.html

 

https://www.today.com/news/olympian-shannon-miller-larry-nassar-s-abuse-somebody-should-have-t121618

[MargeGunderson]

@Shangrilala, it has been on the NYT front page for the last few days, at least the digital version. It’s where I’ve been following it. The whole thing is an absolute horror and I hope that MSU cleans house. They had the power to stop it years ago and did nothing. The girls who spoke at the hearing were absolutely amazing and brave.

[legaleagle53]

30 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

@Shangrilala, it has been on the NYT front page for the last few days, at least the digital version. It’s where I’ve been following it. The whole thing is an absolute horror and I hope that MSU cleans house. They had the power to stop it years ago and did nothing. The girls who spoke at the hearing were absolutely amazing and brave.

Which is exactly what the judge told them.  She even said that one of them should have her own action figure so that other girls could say, "I want to be like her when I grow up!"

[Jillibean]

7 hours ago, Shangrilala said:

Something else that's bothering me about this -- where is the public outrage?  When the allegations about Harvey Weinstein broke, the media was everywhere.  The outrage was everywhere.  And it kept spreading, it seemed like you couldn't turn on the tv without another accusation and another predator being outed.  

But here we have the largest abuse scandal in sports history that spans from small gyms to a university to the Olympics.  The abuse of young girls - children - a system that enabled it - and adults who turned their fucking heads for a gold medal in the Olympics -- and where is the outrage?????  Today it has 1/3 of the page on CNN.  it's nowhere visible on Fox or MSNBC.  It's not on nytimes.com or washingtonpost.com.  WTF?  Now maybe I'm not seeing it because I've made a conscious effort to stay off of Facebook and other social media channels in the month of January (sidebar - an experience I highly recommend!), but let's face it.  The reason that ANYTHING is happening to push change along for this sport is because of 150 brave girls and women.  It's certainly not because anybody else is demanding it.  

It certainly took a long time for the outrage to gain enough traction to force the resignation of those board members. The president of MSU seems to still be hanging on, and the attitude there is very upsetting and disturbing--the comment Lynn Raisman went off on pretty much sums it up. The fact that over a hundred girls and women could testify and that the football coach still believes Nassar might be innocent is the perfect illustration of how this happened for so long. I honestly think main reasons that this has gained the momentum it has right now are that a) Aly Raisman is awesome, b) Judge Aquilina is awesome. Aly has been brave enough to put herself in front of every camera available to call everyone out and gave an amazing and moving statement directly to her abuser that was picked up by most major news sources. Judge Aquilina created a culture where people who had previously not wanted to testify became empowered to come speak up against this monster, and she let everyone speak who wanted to. Also, the picture of Jordyn and Aly, the two gold medalists, sitting together was all over the media. Every one of the over one hundred and fifty women who gave their statements is amazingly courageous, but Jordyn and Aly are faces the public knew before this scandal broke. 

The next step here should clearly be the independent investigation that the victims and Judge Aquilina are calling for. I know USA Gymnastics and the Olympic Committee and MSU would love to just point the finger at Nassar and be done with it, but that is clearly not the reality. I just hope they can get this off the ground before they lose the media cycle, which I'm sure is what USA Gymnastics is hoping for. 

Edited January 24, 2018 by Jillibean

[Mittengirl]

According to “multiple sources” MSU president is going to resign tomorrow - that just flashed on my screen from a local news outlet.  I live in West Michigan so I have heard a lot of coverage of this story.  If you go to mlive.com you will find a lot of articles, I would guess much more than those not living in Michigan have seen.

 

8:50 p.m. E.T. - news now saying Lou Anna Simon has resigned.  Given the time of day, not sure if that means that she is going to hand in her resignation tomorrow or already has.

[NicoleMN6]

I was already feeling conflicted about watching a sport where the elite athletes are teenagers — working crazy hours, traveling all over the world without their parents, risking their lives to perform complex athletic maneuvers when their bodies aren't even fully formed yet. Even before Nassar, there were always cases here and there of physical and mental abuse, and it certainly wasn't a stretch to assume even worse (though not in such a rampant way).

But now... wow. I'm glad my daughter has fun at her "little gym" program, but that's where it will stop. There are plenty of other sports she can do as she grows up.

The silver lining of all this, which I don't think too many people have called out yet? Now that we KNOW that all these young women were being abused, and yet were still able to smile and look OK from the outside, perhaps this will finally stop all the attempts to say "she couldn't have been abused" just based on seeing a woman smiling in a photo with a man afterwards. (All those Harvey Weinstein photos with actresses also come to mind.)

Edited January 25, 2018 by NicoleMN6

[pennben]

On 1/23/2018 at 3:03 PM, Shangrilala said:

All of these people are amazingly dense when it comes to public intelligence.  Fucking idiots.  

 

10 hours ago, Shangrilala said:

I agree with Shawn Johnson that I won't be putting my daughter in gymnastics.  

Something else that's bothering me about this -- where is the public outrage? 

I admit, I am pretty much just someone who watches gymnastics at the Olympics, so every four years, but christ on a cracker, even I have known enough to follow this horrific mess. How in the hell this is not on front pages of newspapers and top stories on newscasts astonishes and absolutely guts me.

Also, aside from Nassar getting his, it is beyond comprehensible to me that at each and every stage of this, it is like absolutely pulling teeth to get any organization involved or reacting to this.  Unbelievable. 20 years from first report to actual consequences

Even now, it makes me crazy.  As victims were testifying:

-MSU decided to send no reps..when called out "well, we'll send someone for the afternoon"
-UsAG was still holding camps where folks were abused...as soon as it was mentioned, "whoops we did intend to cancel contract, so here we'll do it"
-MSU still trying to collect on a bill from someone whose only visit was abuse from Nassar  "whoops, we will not attempt to collect that bill anymore"
-MSU trustee talking about how that "Nassar thing" won't make them get rid of the university President because she's good at fundraising, also laughed that the NCAA wouldn't get involved because this isn't football......whoops president is gone, NCAA is now investigating.
-USAG some folks from the board were still actually freaking on the board until the other day, when apparently it became unseemly
-Nassar himself, saying in a letter to the judge, it was about "women scorned". 

Those are off the top of my head.  It is like at every single step of this (starting with coaches ignoring complaints, telling athletes there would be consequences for them reporting) every single god damn person has lost their minds.  Seriously.....how the hell is this still going on??? 

I guess it shows the culture that was so horrific that everyone knew they couldn't say anything, and honest to god, if this judge didn't allow the airing of 150 or so survivors of this man's abuse would any of the "grown-ups" or institutions involved do anything other that turning their heads and "tsk-tsking" Nassar?  

The fact that the institutions are still so tone deaf is a major, major part of this story for me.

Rant over...

[doodlebug]

38 minutes ago, pennben said:

 

I admit, I am pretty much just someone who watches gymnastics at the Olympics, so every four years, but christ on a cracker, even I have known enough to follow this horrific mess. How in the hell this is not on front pages of newspapers and top stories on newscasts astonishes and absolutely guts me.

 

NBC had this as the lead story on the evening news tonight including excerpts from Kickass Judge Aquilina’s statement today.  They’ve provided regular coverage since the trial began and have had several of the victims as well as experts on the morning shows. Aly Raisman is on Megyn Kelly’s show tomorrow.  It took far too long, but the story is finally getting coverage.  The judge’s decision to let each and every woman assaulted by this criminal to have the opportunity to confront him as well as the 150 or so women who stepped up and bravely faced him was a watershed moment in this case, IMO, and has been the impetus for the burgeoning demands that Nasser’s enablers be brought to justice.  Thank God for Judge Aquilina and thank God for every single one of those women who stood up and refused to keep quiet any longer.

Edited January 25, 2018 by doodlebug

[pennben]

NBC execs are probably on their knees thanking god that the summer olympics are two years from now......can you even imagine John Tesh being the lead for this event any more???  It's a sporting event, maybe they should report it as such and not compose odes to little girls anymore.  Forgive me for not giving credit for reporting by NBC in just the last few days.  The network that has tons to lose when they broadcast the next Olympics gymnastic event if everyone is too repulsed to watch. 

Edited January 25, 2018 by pennben

[andromeda331]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/embattled-michigan-state-president-lou-anna-simon-resigns/ar-AAv8mjO?ocid=spartanntp

[scarynikki12]

It's been getting coverage (NBC news, Huffington Post, Michigan news websites/papers/shows, social media) but it's not the 24 hour, all networks, everyone talking to each other kind of coverage either.  It really should be treated like Penn State, only bigger since the number of survivors who have spoken out is almost 170 and, when factoring in the women and girls who survived but haven't yet found their voice, probably breaks 200 easily.  Yet it's being treated like, for lack of a better word, "regular" news.  The kind that may show up on your local, or even national, nightly broadcast as a point of interest but doesn't affect you if you don't live in that particular area.  But it's a huge story that deserves, at minimum, the same amount of attention as the molestation and coverup at Penn State. 

NBC is no doubt thrilled that Tokyo is two years away.  They can ignore it during the Winter Games, since it's not part of the program, and hope that memories fade enough for them to do one of their puff pieces where they pretend that everything's fine now and the monster is gone.  The Summer Games coverage is actually a perfect opportunity to have a serious story that checks in with USAG and the USOC to see where they are on the necessary overhaul that everyone has been calling for.  But NBC doesn't want to do any of that.  They want to talk about how amazing it is that the gymnasts compete with injuries, that they compete despite some personal demon, or what their families think of them pursuing Olympic gold.  They want to do the kind of serious sports story that doesn't actually have an impact.  I just hope they can't influence the team selection because I wouldn't put it past them to not want Aly or Simone to compete again for fear of them (Aly in particular) bringing it up to the press.  Now, if the needed changes and policies happen and are shown to have a positive effect, then NBC absolutely can to a piece on how USAG and USOC are healing, how the gymnasts are triumphing against the monsters who hurt them, and so on.  Of course, that piece needs to happen about five Olympics from now because no way can anyone see long term effects by Tokyo.  USAG is dragging its heels at every step so they might not even be in effect until the last minute.

[Stuffy]

Yeah Aly and Simone need to dominate the year leading up to the Olympics because I can see them screwing them over especially Aly.  The USOC told the entire board to resign, and they still haven't done it.

[merylinkid]

I know this is the gymnastics thread, but from the coverage I've seen, Nasser didn't limit himself to gymnasts.   Basically any little girl, regardless of sport, was vulnerable.   ANY sport that puts winning ahead of caring for the kids, or as noted tries to separate the parents from the kids, is a problem.   Soccer is not immune.  Tennis is not immune.   Good god, from some of the testimony, he claimed it was "medical treatment" and did it RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE PARENTS.   

MSU has a scandal as bad as Penn State had with Sandusky on its hands.    And just like people defending Paterno, there are people defending Nasser and the rest of the school.    Even after all of this, there are people who believe 150 girls -- independently -- came up with the same idea to make up a story and smear this guy.

[doodlebug]

The US Olympic Committe has finally gotten a spine and has demanded that USAG's entire board resign or face decertification.  It's about time!

Meanwhile, Michigan State continues to behave in ridiculous fashion.  They're now claiming that they are not guilty of a Title IX violation because the women/girls who complained did not complain to the 'appropriate' person.  Not that they didn't tell anyone at Michigan State, just that they didn't tell the 'right' person.  Disgusting!

[CeeBeeGee]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

The US Olympic Committe has finally gotten a spine and has demanded that USAG's entire board resign or face decertification.  It's about time!

Meanwhile, Michigan State continues to behave in ridiculous fashion.  They're now claiming that they are not guilty of a Title IX violation because the women/girls who complained did not complain to the 'appropriate' person.  Not that they didn't tell anyone at Michigan State, just that they didn't tell the 'right' person.  Disgusting!

What the fuck is WRONG with these people??? Jesus Christ, how can they sleep at night?

I would LOVE it if the USAG were decertified. BURN IT ALL DOWN.

[Stuffy]

Michigan State has even bigger problems if the ESPN Outside the Lines report is true.  I haven't read the report yet, but the show made it sound like it was another Baylor-like cover up in basketball and football. The athletic director "retired" today. 

Also the USAG board will resign too. 

[ombelico]

Hey NBC, any regrets about that hagiographic "KAROLYI" (the capitalization is verbatim) documentary shown during the Rio Olympics? 

These athletes are literally doing death-defying maneuvers over and over, all day long, and they think the best place for them to train is a ranch out in the middle of nowhere, without real medical care provided by a team of doctors (not just one dude)? And most of the athletes are minors? (By the way - read Aly Raisman's book. She gives a vivid description of the ranch environment and just how subpar it was as a "National Team Training Facility.")

I've always admired gymnasts and I love watching their beautiful performances, and it pisses me off so much that the "adults" in charge had so little regard for the amazing athletes in their care. It's just disgusting.

[methadonna]

Because so many were commenting that this wasn’t hitting the mainstream news strongly enough (as I’d watched more livestreams and feeds of the trial coverage—which led me to so much nearly real-time updating of the “pillar” stories, ie what was happening with USAG, USOC, MSU, that I think I spent most of my waking hours for the full sentencing trial either watching or reading about it/going down the rabbit hole—I felt like maybe I had a skewed view of the attention this was getting and couldn’t trust my instincts on it (the irony of this not escaping me), but I figured it was worth mentioning that when I went to watch 20/20 tonight, it was about the scandal.

 

For someone who’d followed it closely, a lot of it was redundant, but even I got some new perspectives and a piece of new info re: a rather major avenue for investigation. (Not sure if news can really be spoIled, but since I’m including info from a show far outside its topic/episode thread, I figured it would go the safe route

Spoiler

Elizabeth Vargas did a “town hall” type meeting with 19 of the women who testified. There was a lot of the same ol’ footage and clip packaged from the trial that I’d seen a million times, and much of the town hall meeting was fairly redundant, as well, although there was a lot more focus on the story of a rhythmic gymnast whom I hadn’t seen as one of the repeated voices before. There were also some clips from an interview that Mattie Larson did w Vargas that, although still devastating, esp. in the context of both the info we learned from the Miss Val blog and how she appeared (to me) when she testified, made me far more optimistic for both her current mental state and the chances of her making huge strides in healing significantly.

 

Considering how many angles and layers to this story there are, even for those semi- or well-familiar with the names and culture, nevermind reporting for an audience that is probably most familiar with the 2012 McKayla “Not Impressed” meme and the Bela-carrying-Strug*-woulda-been-meme (actually both mentioned in the piece and connected to the larger picture) when it comes to gymnastics/culture of elite sports where “women” tend to peak while still girls/all of the players and governing bodies involved, I thought Vargas did do a nice job of connecting a ton of dots to make even the totally uninformed understand the issues.

*Shit, yo, even as a kid seeing that, I always thought the glorification of the paradox of infantilization/sexualization of pre-pubescent(looking) girls in what was called a women’s sport was gross enough in the iconic Strug/Karolyi images; I didn’t realize there was footage of Nassar right there, wrapping her leg while Bela overlords. Heckaplus creepy, now. 

 

There was also more “This is Nassar making a video to show how to provide medical treatments”—intended to show the blurry line—than I found acceptable: if we’re suggesting they WERE more than legitimate medical “how-to’s”, then why are we purring them on prime time, network TV?!

 

And damn did they do a glorious hatchet job of Kathie Klages.They said she wouldn’t return their calls but that ESPN had gotten some footage of tracking her down for an interview—which consisted of her jumping in the car to get away from them—but spent the rest of the time the audio was related to her showing stills of her in the gym that I have to imagine were not her most flattering. And, damn, not gonna lie: I’d never seen her before, and I’d like to believe I am generally pretty nonjudgmental of people’s physical appearance, but ... my reaction to her appearance made me have to re-evaluate that. I’d be hating myself a lot right now if she weren’t such a vile ruiner of human potential.

 

But ,most interesting to me was one of the statements made by one of the attorneys (after seeing such a strong female presence in all judicial aspects of the courtroom for Nassar, it was a little jarring to see a shot of several rows of female survivors, followed by a row of what seemed to be large, male personal lawyers), which had to do with the fact that, as Congress created USOC in 1978, that they were going to be calling for a Congressional investigation into who ignored or covered up what and when as the demand for Mo’ Medalz increased. Not that I have the least bit of faith that, in our current political  climate , a Congressional hearing will amount to much (besides a direct pipeline of potential victims to our president instead of some doctor (sorry. Not really?), but, still, I’d have to think that the potential of such looming over them would be enough to worry even the MSU  compicitors, Who, until yesterday, were still seeming pretty ostrich-y about it all). The Congressional connection (let alone how relatively recently created the USOC was formed (shaddup, Millenials ;-) ) hadn’t occurred to me.

 

Burn it all down, indeed. And let the athletes who have stood up rebuild it as they would see fit; the bonding that has taken place among at least the “frontlines” of this league of women was so evident: surely, between the ones who have held leadership positions in other fields before and those who’ve served in neutured athlete-rep type positions previously could do it, if there interested.

[doodlebug]

If nothing else, Nasser’s survivors (victims no more!) need to be given the opportunity to have input into the new USAG particularly in any programs/policies for the protection of other young women/ prevention of future abuse.  They lit the torch and burned it all down, they deserve the chance to be part of the beautiful phoenix that can rise from those ashes.

[Shangrilala]

I honestly think that MSU was hoping that they could keep a finger directly at Nasser and it would live and die there.  And then, when that didn't work, the President stepping down would placate those pesky girls who just wouldn't let it go (after all, the buck stops with her). But now that ESPN has gotten in on it, they realize they have a much bigger problem on their hands.  And - I have to give credit where credit is due - the student community doesn't seem to be standing for this either, they are demanding changes as well.  Unlike crying about basketball and football wins (I'm looking at you Penn State - you will forever be at the bottom of the heap in my eyes after the general sentiment of your student body was that "it wasn't fair!").  

I work in higher ed.  About a year ago we had our own issue that was discovered (nothing like abuse or rape - finance related).  You know what my university did?  We reported it.  Everywhere.  To authorities, our board, and relevant outside agencies.  Then we complied with the federal investigation.  As did our board.  And when the press hit, which it did, we had nothing to hide and were commended for our complete cooperation with the investigation.  THAT is how you do it, MSU and USGA.  

[HartofDixie]

https://www.cjr.org/analysis/usa-gymnastics-orange-county-register.php

[Mittengirl]

Why are there so many male coaches in women’s gymnastics?  You certainly don’t see men being coached by women.  And frankly, none of the men look like they would be capable of doing anything gymnastic-y.  (Except Nastia’s father.)  Was Geddert in gymnastics back in his youth?  

[Darknight]

On 1/25/2018 at 11:28 AM, Stuffy said:

Yeah Aly and Simone need to dominate the year leading up to the Olympics because I can see them screwing them over especially Aly.  The USOC told the entire board to resign, and they still haven't done it.

If Simone doesnt make the team I hope there will be outrage. No way she's not going to 2020 unless she screws up badly. 

4 hours ago, Mittengirl said:

Why are there so many male coaches in women’s gymnastics?  You certainly don’t see men being coached by women.  And frankly, none of the men look like they would be capable of doing anything gymnastic-y.  (Except Nastia’s father.)  Was Geddert in gymnastics back in his youth?  

I ask the same question in swimming 

[CeeBeeGee]

This article about Marcia Frederick. Nasser is not a lone wolf; this has been going on forever. Also I think someone above (or maybe on another board) mentioned Jennifer Sey--in her books she references a coach who was rumored to be sleeping with one of his gymnasts and she was obviously talking about Don Peters and Doe. I remember the Salon comment section devolving into a shitshow, wherein all these MRA types were accusing her of rumor-mongering and destroying reputations (even though she didn't name names) and hating men. (OMG the shitty commenters on that site. I remember one of them, in response to Sey's stating she was "an elite gymnast," saying snottily "Sorry, honey. If you haven't been to the Olympics, you can't call yourself elite." Like WTF?!?! You fucking dumbass, not only was she the US national champion who also competed at Worlds, ELITE IS A SPECIFICALLY DESIGNATED LEVEL IN THIS SPORT. STFU and research gymnastics before you expose your own ignorance again.) The whole fucking thing is this perfect storm of toxic masculinity and misogyny and an ingrained culture. 

[Stuffy]

4 hours ago, Darknight said:

If Simone doesnt make the team I hope there will be outrage. No way she's not going to 2020 unless she screws up badly. 

Yeah I think they're more likely to shut Aly out. She has been the most vocal of the possible olympians. She's really going after them, and she's definitely not letting up. I saw a tweet Simone Biles liked the other day that basically said the USAG is probably regretting giving Aly all that media training. It made me laugh because she really was bad at interviews when she first started.  She talked so fast.  She still does it when she gets worked up about something but not like she used to  

I'm really hoping that by the time for the next olympics she's still kicking butt and injury free.  

Edited January 28, 2018 by Stuffy

[ombelico]

I know Aly talked about going for Tokyo when she was interviewed at the end of the Rio Olympics, but is there any indication now that she still has that intention? I think if that were the case, she probably would have started training this past fall, like Simone. At this point it seems more like she sees the fight for reform of USAG as her main focus now (rightfully so). That said, I'd love to see her continue as a competitor and force the USAG to put their money where their mouth is, and not shut her out in retaliation for her outspokenness.

[Stuffy]

It was still the goal when she was promoting her book in the fall.  I only remember that because it seemed like every interviewer asked her about it.  Priorities change though.  She took two years off in between her last olympics. 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Stuffy

[cesstar]

6 hours ago, Stuffy said:

It was still the goal when she was promoting her book in the fall.  I only remember that because it seemed like every interviewer asked her about it.  Priorities change though.  She took two years off in between her last olympics. 

Gymnasts tend to always leave the door open for continuing in the field, it's good for sponsorship and promotional opportunities to be considered an 'active' athlete rather than retired. It's why Laurie and Gabby haven't officially retired although I strongly doubt we'll see either of them return to the gym. Aly was back in serious training at this time last quad although she wasn't officially going to camps so I think she would need to follow a similar strategy this time. She could be training on the side now but I think we would have seem some social media about it if she was. I suspect this will become her new focus and it looks like she's going to be an excellent advocate.

[HartofDixie]

11 hours ago, cesstar said:

Gymnasts tend to always leave the door open for continuing in the field, it's good for sponsorship and promotional opportunities to be considered an 'active' athlete rather than retired. It's why Laurie and Gabby haven't officially retired although I strongly doubt we'll see either of them return to the gym. Aly was back in serious training at this time last quad although she wasn't officially going to camps so I think she would need to follow a similar strategy this time. She could be training on the side now but I think we would have seem some social media about it if she was. I suspect this will become her new focus and it looks like she's going to be an excellent advocate.

I think Laurie might attempt a comeback but drop before 2020 in order to keep up interest and get some more deals.  She posted not too long enough some pics of her on a beam but she's spending more time attending events than at a gym.  The only recent thing I saw from Gabby is her new wig line but she's been super quiet since her twitter drama when she was accused of victim shaming and then announced she was a Nassar victim.

[Jaded]

Gold medalist Dominique Moceanu warned us 10 years ago about abuse in USA Gymnastics

[HartofDixie]

http://michiganradio.org/post/police-investigated-msu-coach-staff-possible-obstruction-justice

[selkie]

USADA lets you do a search on how many times a given athlete has been tested by them in a given period of time, and it can be helpful in figuring out who is officially retired and who isn't as retired as some people thought (Michael Phelps' comeback was pretty much discovered by people noticing he was getting drug tested again)

https://www.usada.org/testing/results/athlete-test-history/

 

2017 test counts-

Alexandra Raisman- 1 

Simone Biles- 6

Lauren Hernandez- 5

Gabrielle C Douglas- 1

[cesstar]

19 minutes ago, selkie said:

2017 test counts-

Alexandra Raisman- 1 

Simone Biles- 6

Lauren Hernandez- 5

Gabrielle C Douglas- 1

Interesting!

 

9 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

I think Laurie might attempt a comeback but drop before 2020 in order to keep up interest and get some more deals.  She posted not too long enough some pics of her on a beam but she's spending more time attending events than at a gym.

Good point. She has to find a new coach too right? I don't think she's going back to her previous gym due to some issues after the Olympics so that's an added barrier for her to overcome.

[Stuffy]

I know Simone is on a medicine for ADHD that is a banned substance. Some still think she's cheating even though she needs the medication and has gone through all the necessary steps to allow her to take it legally.  That could have something to do with why she's tested so much.  I don't know about Laurie. It's not a good look if those aren't the reasons. 

Edited January 30, 2018 by Stuffy

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

 How in the hell this is not on front pages of newspapers and top stories on newscasts astonishes and absolutely guts me.

Newspapers have a hard enough time getting subscribers AS IT IS.  Reminding everyone DAILY about little girls getting molested in gyms makes people uncomfortable.  This is why nobody under the age of 50 subscribes to a newspaper anymore and nobody under 40 watches TV news--the news is too depressing.  All people want to know is that the situation is being dealt with.  

[HartofDixie]

4 hours ago, selkie said:

USADA lets you do a search on how many times a given athlete has been tested by them in a given period of time, and it can be helpful in figuring out who is officially retired and who isn't as retired as some people thought (Michael Phelps' comeback was pretty much discovered by people noticing he was getting drug tested again)

https://www.usada.org/testing/results/athlete-test-history/

 

2017 test counts-

Alexandra Raisman- 1 

Simone Biles- 6

Lauren Hernandez- 5

Gabrielle C Douglas- 1

Thanks for that link! Gabby & Aly must have done their last test in early 2017.  I assumed if you were still planning to return you would keep up with the testing - if Aly is done I hope she doesn’t keep repeating that she’s definitely training for Tokyo. I think Simone posted a couple of months ago she had a blood test done - it might be an additional test she needs to do because of her meds.

[selkie]

IIRC, WADA rules say an elite athlete returning from a retirement period must be available for anti-doping testing 18 months before returning to competition under their jurisdiction. In swimming, it's common to see unretired athletes in the 18 month 'penalty box' show up at US Masters (think over age 25 and divided into 5 year age groups for competition purposes) meets to get some racing and progress checks in because they're not under the WADA umbrella while USA Swimming meets are. 

With gymnastics, it probably makes sense to just stay in the anti-doping pool as long as you think you might come back since it's typically a low doping risk sport with relatively infrequent testing compared to higher doping risk cycling, swimming, or track, where the big names will get out-of-competition tests more than once a month. 

[HartofDixie]

FYI The next trial for Nassar begins tomorrow and victim impact statements will be read.

 

https://deadspin.com/a-list-of-people-accused-of-enabling-larry-nassar-1822393026

Edited January 30, 2018 by HartofDixie