S02.E07: Dumb Deaths

[Neptune]

“Dumb Deaths” – When a television documentary crew comes to Woodstone Mansion to shoot an episode of “Dumb Deaths,” Pete confronts a hard truth about the day he died

[Neptune]

[TruffleHog]

Can't wait for this episode.  I hope I don't build it up so much that I'm let down.

[Neptune]

[Neptune]

https://tvline.com/2022/11/10/ghosts-spoilers-season-2-episode-7-pete-dumb-deaths-richie-moriarty/

[AnimeMania]

Mathew Baynton (Actor Pete)
Amir Talai (Daniel, Director)
Dana Gourrier (Jennifer)
Tara Spencer-Nairn (Young Carol)
Rose Abdoo (Paula)
Nasuna Stuart-Ulin (Production assistant)
Adam Bernett (Ira)
Marc Antoine-Kelertas (Crew Guy Gary)

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

So Trevor had a Philly girl and he let her go. Well, now we know why he’s stuck as a ghost for all eternity. 

[nora1992]

Would not be at all surprised to see World’s Hottest Dentists on a cable network in the future…..

[ams1001]

bananibalism 😄 

"Could someone please fetch me a Tab?" I was in fourth grade in 1984-85 and my teacher sent me and my friend to the teachers' lounge every day to get her a Tab from the soda machine. Ah, memories.

Hey, Trevor, it can work - my cousin and his wife are in a mixed marriage. He's a Giants fan and she's an Eagles fan (they live in Eagle country, though). 

Poor Pete. 

Um, I don't think they need a tourniquet for that arrow injury. If it was that bad I don't think he'd be standing there asking if there's an arrow in his butt. (Also, where are you going to place a tourniquet for that, anyway?)

My only issue with this show is that it always makes me miss the first minute of Grey's.

Edited November 11, 2022 by ams1001

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Goddamn Pete-centric episodes making me cry. 

[The Crazed Spruce]

Well, at least now we know where the donut holes from the credits come into play....

[Annber03]

"I would change the subject to something less controversial. Like The Cosby Show. Or Woody Allen movies."

My mom and I got a good laugh out of that line. 

But ooh, Isaac and Nigel's first real tiff as a couple! And what a thing to debate as well - it was only a matter of time before they'd get around to the whole thing of being on opposing sides during a war. Thor was right to avoid getting in the middle of that debate, though - I love how he quickly excused himself. And I'm glad Sam pointing out how well America and Britain get on now helped Isaac and Nigel patch things up. It would've been nice to see how they resolved the debate, but I'm glad they did :). 

As for the main story, oh, that was so fun. Hetty getting all into wanting to support the producer, Flower and Pete's respective reactions to the idea of a show covering their deaths, the guy playing Pete being WAY too into his role...so fun :D.  I loved the whole thing of bringing in one of Pete's former scouts - great idea on Jay's part* - and I especially love how she helped Pete see that he really did inspire his troop, and that they still think fondly of him and all that he taught him. 

*Too bad he got an arrow in his back end! I actually said, "Ohhhhhh, no....!" when the prop guy was about to shoot the arrow after walking through Flower. 

And an interesting way to bring in the argument he'd had with Carol about the donut holes. Between that and the shirts the crew was wearing, there were some good callbacks and continuity happening here. Also, good casting for the woman playing the younger version of Carol, I could totally see the resemblance. 

Loved how they worked out the issues with doing the show, too. Sam playing Flower was a really cute idea :D. Also cute? That pink shirt she was wearing for much of the episode. I've decided that I would love to have her whole wardrobe. 

[greekmom]

Cool we got to see where Timbits come from the opening credits, we saw Mathew Baynton from Ghosts UK on Ghosts US and Tara Spencer-Nairn as Pete's wife in the flashback!

Loved that part of the deal was that Sam had to be in the show as Flower.

Maybe Nigel and Issac should watch a good long documentary on the War so that they can end the discussion.

I would love to know how Hetty died.

Edited November 11, 2022 by greekmom

[Sakura12]

Since they had an actor from the UK version and they were talking about the US vs UK, it would've been funny if someone mentioned a similar death happening in England.

Poor Pete, but I was thinking that too when they said how he died. Don't give them the arrows and stand in front of the targets. I wonder if we'll ever meet the girl that shot him. They did that storyline in the UK version.

Of course Hetty would love the job bossing around all the underlings. I'm glad she decided to help Peter. 

We still don't know how Sass and Hetty died. 

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

I’m actually jealous of Pete. I hope someday, hopefully as a living person and not a ghost, I get to see one of my students use something I taught them to help another person. What better way to know that the world truly is better because of you?

[Snow Apple]

Director: describing the person with the dumb death.

Jay: "Oh, Flower........child." Nice save.

[iMonrey]

I think it's great that they had Mathew Baynton (Actor Pete) from the UK version of this show. But if they're going to do that, why not actually use Jim Howick, who plays the UK counterpart of Pete? I mean, it already feels like a stunt cast or gimmick to have one of the UK Ghosts on the US version, why not go all the way? Pete is the only ghost that has a direct counterpart on the UK version (his name is Pat but he is otherwise an identical character).

That said I did enjoy the performance and loved his delusions of grandeur, saying he'd gained 75 pounds for his last role, but it was worth it because "nobody will ever forget Customer #2."

Quote

And an interesting way to bring in the argument he'd had with Carol about the donut holes. Between that and the shirts the crew was wearing, there were some good callbacks and continuity happening here.

Agreed! This show has some really good continuity, and I love the running gag about "It's Getting Hot in Here." 

Quote

Jay: "Oh, Flower........child." Nice save.

There's really no reason why Jay and Sam wouldn't know about Flower's death, Sam even wrote an article about her. The only one they shouldn't really know about is Trevor because his death was covered up. (They shouldn't know about Thor or Sass either, of course. And possibly Isaac. Although Sam is writing a book about him.)

Edited November 11, 2022 by iMonrey

[phalange]

“No ambulation without representation.” Lmao. Of course Isaac and Nigel are going to have arguments over different systems of government, but hey, it’s probably more interesting for Isaac than watching ants in the shed. 

Smart of Sam to call one of the troopers who could set the record straight and say that Pete wasn’t drunk. And the first aid skills that Pete taught the scouts came in handy in the end. Before Jay got hit with the arrow I was thinking “Actor Pete” was going to get hit with one and maybe be another “dumb death.”

Love Sam playing Flower in the Dumb Deaths episode and Hetty following the producer around.

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, Snow Apple said:

Director: describing the person with the dumb death.

Jay: "Oh, Flower........child." Nice save.

And Sam, before that: "You're going to have to be more specific, there's been a lot of dumb deaths on this property."

[stonehaven]

This was a great episode but my favorite line was when they were discussing the most important role and someone said "Writer?"..and they all scoffed....

I love writers who are meta about their profession....

[kathyk24]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I think it's great that they had Mathew Baynton (Actor Pete) from the UK version of this show. But if they're going to do that, why not actually use Jim Howick, who plays the UK counterpart of Pete? I mean, it already feels like a stunt cast or gimmick to have one of the UK Ghosts on the US version, why not go all the way? Pete is the only ghost that has a direct counterpart on the UK version (his name is Pat but he is otherwise an identical character).

That said I did enjoy the performance and loved his delusions of grandeur, saying he'd gained 75 pounds for his last role, but it was worth it because "nobody will ever forget Customer #2."

Agreed! This show has some really good continuity, and I love the running gag about "It's Getting Hot in Here." 

There's really no reason why Jay and Sam wouldn't know about Flower's death, Sam even wrote an article about her. The only one they shouldn't really know about is Trevor because his death was covered up. (They shouldn't know about Thor or Sass either, of course. And possibly Isaac. Although Sam is writing a book about him.)

Sam and Jay couldn't let the producer know about Sam's ability to see Ghosts. I thought this episode was hilarious. Isaac and Nigel are so alike I'm surprised they haven't fought before now. Hetty was perfect as the producer's shadow. I thought the writers were mocking method actors.

[Whimsy]

9 hours ago, stonehaven said:

This was a great episode but my favorite line was when they were discussing the most important role and someone said "Writer?"..and they all scoffed....

I love writers who are meta about their profession....

And it was funny how insulted Sass was since he’s a storyteller lol 

I thought Sam did a great “Flower” for the episode.  Even had her speech patterns and inflections down. And Actor Pete as Flowers boyfriend peeing himself… again hahahaha

I really enjoyed this whole episode!  

[tennisgurl]

Pete episodes always manage to get me misty eyed, I think it would be an amazing thing to know that something you taught someone stuck with them so well years after you died. I hate when Pete is sad so I am really glad that he got a win by the end. I really like the reoccurring theme that so many of the ghosts really did leave a positive impact on the world even after they died, like Roberta's many fans and Flowers's boyfriend naming his coffee franchise after her. 

Lots of great continuity in this episode, from the recreation of Pete's death to the donut holes in the opening to Sass and Thor getting excited when they realized that some of the crew worked on their favorite reality show, I really appreciate how much care the writers put into remembering character details like that. 

It was inevitable that Nigel and Isaac would eventually have to talk about being on different sides of the Revolutionary War, but luckily Sam managed to give them a brief, Love Actually based lesson on recent history that helped them fix the rift. Maybe they can watch some revolution documentaries together to get more perspective on each others sides? Or just watch 1776? 

"Pete is impotent."

"Oh, is that why he didn't want to be our third? Because there is still stuff you can do!" 

Edited November 11, 2022 by tennisgurl

[KarenX]

I got invited last minute this week to see Hamilton on stage for the first time yesterday. It was Ghosts night too and Isaac launched right into his Hamilton beef at the top of the episode and I could not have been happier.

In the favorite quotes thread another poster remarked that Nigel speaks like King George and YES. It enhanced both shows for me.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Sam and Jay couldn't let the producer know about Sam's ability to see Ghosts.

They wouldn't have to. There's no reason why Sam and Jay shouldn't know a hippie named Flower died on their property back in the day. Sam wrote an article about Flower back in Season 1. So when the producer said "some Hippie died when she tried to hug a bear" there's no reason Jay had to cover for himself after saying "Oh, you mean Flower." They had even just acknowledged that they knew there had been several "dumb deaths" on their property.

I did enjoy seeing the flashback to Flower's death though. Ira "ran like Dane" just like Thor said. My one quibble would be that Flower should probably be a lot worse for wear if she died from a bear attack than just some scratches. Those wouldn't have killed her and she seemed to have died instantly. 

[Silver-hyren]

13 hours ago, stonehaven said:

This was a great episode but my favorite line was when they were discussing the most important role and someone said "Writer?"..and they all scoffed....

I love writers who are meta about their profession....

Same! I think it was Sass who said “writer.”  Makes sense since as a storyteller he is in effect the writer of the group.

[chaifan]

10 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

My one quibble would be that Flower should probably be a lot worse for wear if she died from a bear attack than just some scratches. Those wouldn't have killed her and she seemed to have died instantly. 

Yep, I thought the same thing.  If the bear scratched Flower, hit the jugular, and then was distracted by another hippie or was scared off by someone/something, then I could buy Flower bleeding out and dying quickly.  But even that way, she'd be a lot more bloody, and that has always been something I just have handwaved away for this show since we knew she died by bear.  Maybe she died of a heart attack after one swipe, so we see her as she was at the moment of death, not as she was when the bear finished with her...

I'd like it if the Dumb Deaths episode leads to more filming at the manor, even if we don't really see it, or it's just background filler.   I need a plausible way for Sam & Jay to be generating more income.

[Grundoon59]

As usual, loved the episode and of course that Pete got to see that he had made a difference (silly show making me tear up like that).  Pretty much everyone got a chance to shine.  This show did such an amazing job in their primary cast and it is carrying through to guest stars as well. 

But as someone who actually still has a stash of cartons of Tab, I loved the shout out by the method actor when he arrived (although I would not spare one for him since he was so mean about Pete). 

[dcalley]

3 hours ago, Whimsy said:

I thought Sam did a great “Flower” for the episode.  Even had her speech patterns and inflections down. And Actor Pete as Flowers boyfriend peeing himself… again hahahaha

Rose McIver had to portray so many different types of people on iZombie that I was not at all surprised she did a good job as Flower. Maybe the drama kids should have let Sam act in high school. Politics!

I laughed at Not!Pete asking for more socks in addition to shorts.

I wanted to know what chef Jay thought of the food truck's tuna sandwich!

[shura]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

I'd like it if the Dumb Deaths episode leads to more filming at the manor, even if we don't really see it, or it's just background filler.   I need a plausible way for Sam & Jay to be generating more income.

They should have sued the pants off the show for shooting people in the ass with an arrow, instead of being nice and settling for dropping Pete’s story in exchange for Flower’s. That would have given them a nice financial cushion. 

[eel21788]

16 hours ago, Annber03 said:

 As for the main story, oh, that was so fun. Hetty getting all into wanting to support the producer,

She didn't want to support the producer. She wanted to be the producer.

[kathyk24]

20 minutes ago, shura said:

They should have sued the pants off the show for shooting people in the ass with an arrow, instead of being nice and settling for dropping Pete’s story in exchange for Flower’s. That would have given them a nice financial cushion. 

The production company has deeper pockets than Sam and Jay so it was a good compromise. 

[eel21788]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 My one quibble would be that Flower should probably be a lot worse for wear if she died from a bear attack than just some scratches. Those wouldn't have killed her and she seemed to have died instantly. 

If the bear's claw got between her ribs and punctured one of her vital organs, the bleeding would have been mostly internal. It still probably wouldn't cause instantaneous death, but most likely her death wouldn't have taken more than 5 or 10 minutes.

[shura]

5 minutes ago, kathyk24 said:

The production company has deeper pockets than Sam and Jay so it was a good compromise. 

True about the deeper pockets, that’s why Sam and Jay should have settled for more money. As is stands, the company paid absolutely nothing for their recklessness and injuring Jay. They simply got a different episode than originally planned.

[chaifan]

5 minutes ago, shura said:

As is stands, the company paid absolutely nothing for their recklessness and injuring Jay.

To be fair, it's not exactly "reckless" to not forsee a crew member unknowingly walking through stoned ghost and getting stoned in the process. 

😁

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

There's no reason why Sam and Jay shouldn't know a hippie named Flower died on their property back in the day. Sam wrote an article about Flower back in Season 1. So when the producer said "some Hippie died when she tried to hug a bear" there's no reason Jay had to cover for himself after saying "Oh, you mean Flower."

Wasn’t Flower known as Daisy? 
 

[ams1001]

3 minutes ago, eel21788 said:

If the bear's claw got between her ribs and punctured one of her vital organs, the bleeding would have been mostly internal. It still probably wouldn't cause instantaneous death, but most likely her death wouldn't have taken more than 5 or 10 minutes.

I thought she was shown in the early episodes to have much bigger slash marks on her upper back (normally hidden by her dress, I guess). That could have hit something pretty vital.

(Of course, I could be wrong and I can't find any image or video to back me up.)

[KarenX]

Just now, ams1001 said:

I thought she was shown in the early episodes to have much bigger slash marks on her upper back (normally hidden by her dress, I guess). That could have hit something pretty vital.

(Of course, I could be wrong and I can't find any image or video to back me up.)

We’re just speculating so I will add: She could have hit her head in the fall. Her hair could be hiding a skull wound/fracture.

[eel21788]

4 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I thought she was shown in the early episodes to have much bigger slash marks on her upper back (normally hidden by her dress, I guess). That could have hit something pretty vital.

(Of course, I could be wrong and I can't find any image or video to back me up.)

I think you're remembering Teen Ghost/Attic Girl, and her chainsaw wounds.

[eel21788]

4 minutes ago, KarenX said:

We’re just speculating so I will add: She could have hit her head in the fall. Her hair could be hiding a skull wound/fracture.

That would probably yield a slower death than internal bleeding.

[Driad]

The drugs Flower had taken might have led to a heart attack (like Trevor's) under the stress of the bear attack.

[possibilities]

If they get a lot of publicity for people dying there, I'd think the B&B would have a harder time attracting customers other than people specifically booking for ghost encounters or other macabre reasons. 

Of course, they don't have many customers anyway, so maybe it doesn't matter.

[shura]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

To be fair, it's not exactly "reckless" to not forsee a crew member unknowingly walking through stoned ghost and getting stoned in the process. 

😁

While this sounds like a totally solid line of defense any lawyer would be proud to present in court, the part where the company used props that could actually kill people is kind of reckless... Were they actually going to shoot the actor with that arrow?

[iMonrey]

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Maybe she died of a heart attack after one swipe, so we see her as she was at the moment of death, not as she was when the bear finished with her..

Quote

We’re just speculating so I will add: She could have hit her head in the fall. Her hair could be hiding a skull wound/fracture.

Those are both good ideas. I was leaning towards the heart attack theory too. Her ghost "got up" right away (and joined Sass, Thor and Alberta) so clearly she died instantly, yet when she turned around and looked, the bear was still going at her body, hence her comment "I sure wouldn't want to be her." 

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Wasn’t Flower known as Daisy? 

Ira called her Daisy; her real name is Susan Montero.

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True about the deeper pockets, that’s why Sam and Jay should have settled for more money. As is stands, the company paid absolutely nothing for their recklessness and injuring Jay. They simply got a different episode than originally planned.

I doubt Sam and Jay could get much more than compensation for medical bills; it's not as if Jay suffered any lasting damage from being shot in the ass. Plus they'd signed a contract to let them film on their property so there's probably some liability language in there. Their goal was to get them off of Pete's story, not to try to bleed them dry. They're just not that kind of people.

I love that Pete thinks saying "Gosh darn" is "locker room talk." Also: "Hey we went to Epcot! That's the whole world at once!"

Edited November 11, 2022 by iMonrey

[ams1001]

2 hours ago, eel21788 said:

I think you're remembering Teen Ghost/Attic Girl, and her chainsaw wounds.

That is entirely possible.

[Annber03]

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

"Pete is impotent."

"Oh, is that why he didn't want to be our third? Because there is still stuff you can do!" 

LMAO, I loved how they snuck that in :D. Flower has some great throwaway lines. 

5 hours ago, eel21788 said:

She didn't want to support the producer. She wanted to be the producer.

LOL, true. I meant "support" more in that since she was a ghost, all she really could do was "help", so to speak. But yes, it was fun to see her getting all power crazy :D. 

I like how the ghosts are witness to all these deaths. I like the running thing of them being a "ghost welcome wagon" of sorts :p. It'd be fun to see more of that as we continue to learn more details of the circumstances surrounding how all the ghosts died. 

[ctlady]

On 11/10/2022 at 8:58 PM, ams1001 said:

Hey, Trevor, it can work - my cousin and his wife are in a mixed marriage. He's a Giants fan and she's an Eagles fan (they live in Eagle country, though). 

I guess it could be worse-she could be a Cowboys fan 

[shapeshifter]

15 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Wasn’t Flower known as Daisy? 

12 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Ira called her Daisy; her real name is Susan Montero

Right.
But do we know whether in Sam’s article about Flower if Sam ever referred to her as “Flower”? Or did Sam just write about Susan Montero aka Daisy who inspired the Daisy's Coffee Shop?

If Sam only used “Susan Montero” and “Daisy” in the article (perhaps for simplicity and clarity and for article word-length) then that would explain why Jay covered up knowing someone named Flower when he responded to the Dumb Deaths docu-series producer:   

• [PRODUCER] Well, the one we're interested in involves a hippie back in the '60s.
• [JAY] Oh, Flower... child.

Or, maybe the writers just thought it was a funny bit and figured neither most of the viewers nor Jay would recall Sam’s article?

Edited November 12, 2022 by shapeshifter

[KayVeeTeeVee]

Reading this stream makes me realize that cooking dinner and watching Ghosts makes me miss a lot!  Yay, re-runs!

[iMonrey]

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She didn't want to support the producer. She wanted to be the producer.

I thought Hetty was acting a bit out of character here. She doesn't believe women should be able to vote or handle money or ride bicycles but suddenly she's power tripping after this female producer? I thought she should have been following her around criticizing her and protesting against her.

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But do we know whether in Sam’s article about Flower if Sam ever referred to her as “Flower”? Or did Sam just write about Susan Montero aka Daisy who inspired the Daisy's Coffee Shop?

Sam didn't make the connection that her coffee shop was named after Flower until after the article was written, because Flower didn't tell her Ira called her Daisy until the end of the episode. But in the flashback we saw in this episode Ira called her Flower. So I guess he only called her Daisy on special occasions.