S12.E21: Not My Sister's Keeper

[Yours Truly]

On 10/9/2022 at 11:02 AM, Jel said:

Also, I just read that sometime after the last epi, Kyle went on a podcast with Erika and Rinna and they were all very chummy and BFF-ish. How would that make Kathy feel? How did it make Kim feel when Kyle maintained her close friendship with Rinna after she'd been so awful to Kim? Betrayed?

Kyle seems to feel entitled to have her cake and eat it to. And if the sisters are hurt by what she has done, Kyle just sees herself as the victim.  The sisters react (not always in the best way) and Kyle sees herself as a victim of their reaction... a reaction to what she did. Does Kyle ever take any responsibility for any role she may have played in any problem?  I can't think of any time she has.

1000x's THIS to the Bold!!!!!

Kyle somehow regresses into this child like, wide eyed persona when dealing with conflicts involving either sister. She never ever explores what it is that SHE has done to receive their reactions. I can't stand this generic defense people throw out there about not being responsible for how others feel or act. Well Kyle, when you are chumming with people who are absolutely evil to your sisters, that in itself warrants a bit of hurt. It's not that there isn't any truth to the idea that there is only so much Kyle can do in situations where OTHERS are mistreating her sisters but Kyle takes that defense a little too far when in some of those instances she's been a player in the ordeal to some extent. Can't pretend that the hurt is only stemming from Kyle not stepping in and being a protector. It's that but it's also the part where not only is she NOT stepping in to protect she is sometimes seen to be cosigning whatever mistreatment is being hurled their way.

It galls me to see Kyle's upbringing with her sisters, and of course family drama thrown out there as some excuse for giving Kyle passes for some of her missteps over the seasons. Yes, she has a complicated history with her sisters but a lot of the time that whole regressed, infant, scared behavior she reverts to during some conflict seems ABSOLUTELY put on! It's like uh-oh somethings going down with one of the ladies and my sister and I'm going to be expected to side with my sister so let me cry and bail so that everyone remembers how I've been mistreated by them and therefore understands why I chose to remove myself rather than try and protect my sister. 

I feel like this is what she does to get out of any blow back for lack of support. Honestly, I don't think she ever truly wants to side with her sisters at any point cause I think she enjoys it to some extent when they are being taken to task by any of the ladies. I think she gets some pleasure of seeing others do what she can't bring herself to do outright.  She also knows she can't sit there and smile with glee either so here comes crying, scared, 12 year old Kyle to distract from the fact that she isn't taking up for her sister(s). We've seen Kyle stand up for herself, speak up for herself and get into it time and time again but in defense of her sisters? When has she ever gotten to that level of assertive? Whether it's intention or unintentional Kyle never, ever allows herself to stick up for her sisters in a strong and solid way. The closest we ever get is the meek, distraught, "I have to concede cause these are my sisters" declarations under duress. 

Even now, Kyle's "support" of Kathy over Erika and Rinna sounds so damn meek and strained. Like it pains her to go against Rinna and Erika. Her reason isn't because she wants to support her sister against women that are relentlessly targeting Kathy. Oh no, her reason is so that everyone attends her daughters wedding. Like really Kyle? Gee, if I was your sister that would make me feel all warm and fuzzy....... NOT!

Look, Kyle has every reason to feel however she wants to feel about Kathy however that shouldn't affect her ability to show some strength, teeth and claws when addressing Erika and Rinna's attacks on her sister. Kyle can't ever seem to manage that believable level of energy when it comes to telling her "friends" to back off of her sisters and it shows. I personally believe THAT is what always keeps the cloud handing over their relationships. The fact that Kyle never seems to be at all happy with picking her sisters over whoever in any given conflict. Even when it isn't a hard choice. She just refuses. And if Kyle really wants to keep the peace and lessen the strain over the family as a whole she needs to come to terms with how she does it. Her half assed attempts over the years don't cut it and just continues to let the clouds invade the little bit of sun they manage to find time and time again. 

Either Kyle commits to the family or she accepts those rifts among them and call it a day but she's always trying to maintain this family bond while not respecting the boundaries in place. Their family dynamic is what it is and Kyle's biggest problem is yes wanting her cake and eating it too. You either want the loving comfort and security of your whole family and go to bat for them once in awhile or you can always stand by the wayside and watch outsiders attack them but then you have to accept that it fractures some of that family bond. 

Honestly, I think this whole sibling dysfunction of Kyle's is absolutely tiresome and overdone at this point. 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Yours Truly

[Yours Truly]

23 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

I think where we see things differently is I think it's good to confront something if you think there's been serious wrongdoing, like living off the $ that belonged to orphans and widows or your friend being thrown under the bus. That's when Garcelle speaks up. That doesn't make her a bully or aggressive. Kyle is pushy and blows up at people over stuff that's nonsense or not her business. 

When Erika was minding her own business in France, Kyle was like a dog with a bone and wouldn't leave her alone because Erika wasn't having a teenager slumber party mentality or didn't care about Rinna's Halloween version of her. She and Teddi were ridiculous. When Erika is threatening Sutton, Kyle throws her under the bus and calls her two-faced. When Erika is hitting on a married man and cursing at a kid, Kyle has no issue with it. She even thinks it's funny. Sure she'd have a different view if that were her 14-year-old. I just think her judgment is normally off. I'm not saying Denise Richards is a saint, but she didn't do anything to deserve the way she was treated on the show. 

Also, not saying Kyle's level of aggression would leave me feeling scared for my life or anything like that. Just that it is aggressive and she should keep her hands off the other ladies. She has some nerve to think she has the right to do that imo. She's the same person who got a nasty tone with Dorit and said "Don't ever talk to me like that again!" Say what you want about Dorito, but she doesn't grab or shove, and she isn't as confrontational as Kyle either.  

We'll agree to disagree because we'll end up going around in circles. I have never thought Garcelle did anything beyond the pale, whereas I have felt that about Kyle. I do appreciate reading your posts and that you have a different opinion. It would get boring if we all had the same thoughts on the show. 

HERE, HERE!!!!!!

[janiema]

33 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

1000x's THIS to the Bold!!!!!

Kyle somehow regresses into this child like, wide eyed persona when dealing with conflicts involving either sister. She never ever explores what it is that SHE has done to receive their reactions. I can't stand this generic defense people throw out there about not being responsible for how others feel or act. Well Kyle, when you are chumming with people who are absolutely evil to your sisters, that in itself warrants a bit of hurt. It's not that there isn't any truth to the idea that there is only so much Kyle can do in situations where OTHERS are mistreating her sisters but Kyle takes that defense a little too far when in some of those instances she's been a player in the ordeal to some extent. Can't pretend that the hurt is only stemming from Kyle not stepping in and being a protector. It's that but it's also the part where not only is she NOT stepping in to protect she is sometimes seen to be cosigning whatever mistreatment is being hurled their way.

It galls me to see Kyle's upbringing with her sisters, and of course family drama thrown out there as some excuse for giving Kyle passes for some of her missteps over the seasons. Yes, she has a complicated history with her sisters but a lot of the time that whole regressed, infant, scared behavior she reverts to during some conflict seems ABSOLUTELY put on! It's like uh-oh somethings going down with one of the ladies and my sister and I'm going to be expected to side with my sister so let me cry and bail so that everyone remembers how I've been mistreated by them and therefore understands why I chose to remove myself rather than try and protect my sister. 

I feel like this is what she does to get out of any blow back for lack of support. Honestly, I don't think she ever truly wants to side with her sisters at any point cause I think she enjoys it to some extent when they are being taken to task by any of the ladies. I think she gets some pleasure of seeing others do what she can't bring herself to do outright.  She also knows she can't sit there and smile with glee either so here comes crying, scared, 12 year old Kyle to distract from the fact that she isn't taking up for her sister(s). We've seen Kyle stand up for herself, speak up for herself and get into it time and time again but in defense of her sisters? When has she ever gotten to that level of assertive? Whether it's intention or unintentional Kyle never, ever allows herself to stick up for her sisters in a strong and solid way. The closest we ever get is the meek, distraught, "I have to concede cause these are my sisters" declarations under duress. 

Even now, Kyle's "support" of Kathy over Erika and Rinna sounds so damn meek and strained. Like it pains her to go against Rinna and Erika. Her reason isn't because she wants to support her sister against women that are relentlessly targeting Kathy. Oh no, her reason is so that everyone attends her daughters wedding. Like really Kyle? Gee, if I was your sister that would make me feel all warm and fuzzy....... NOT!

Look, Kyle has every reason to feel however she wants to feel about Kathy however that shouldn't affect her ability to show some strength, teeth and claws when addressing Erika and Rinna's attacks on her sister. Kyle can't ever seem to manage that believable level of energy when it comes to telling her "friends" to back off of her sisters and it shows. I personally believe THAT is what always keeps the cloud handing over their relationships. The fact that Kyle never seems to be at all happy with picking her sisters over whoever in any given conflict. Even when it isn't a hard choice. She just refuses. And if Kyle really wants to keep the peace and lessen the strain over the family as a whole she needs to come to terms with how she does it. Her half assed attempts over the years don't cut it and just continues to let the clouds invade the little bit of sun they manage to find time and time again. 

Either Kyle commits to the family or she accepts those rifts among them and call it a day but she's always trying to maintain this family bond while not respecting the boundaries in place. Their family dynamic is what it is and Kyle's biggest problem is yes wanting her cake and eating it too. You either want the loving comfort and security of your whole family and go to bat for them once in awhile or you can always stand by the wayside and watch outsiders attack them but then you have to accept that it fractures some of that family bond. 

Honestly, I think this whole sibling dysfunction of Kyle's is absolutely tiresome and overdone at this point. 

From what I’ve seen on the show, Kathy and Kim don’t often have a problem with each other. The common denominator is Kyle.

Also, at one point Kyle said she didn’t want to go against (stand up) to Rinna and Erika because they were like sisters to her. She is better off with Kathy and Kim as her sisters than Erika and Rinna.

[RoseAllDay]

On 10/8/2022 at 3:58 PM, SweetieDarling said:

I hope they run a montage of her outbursts during the reunion.

Let's hope so.

Same with Erika. If they’re trying to portray Kathy as an unstable danger, let’s roll the tape. There’s no question about Rinna and Erika and their outbursts. 

I just have a bad feeling, though, that those two are going to get a pass.

[RoseAllDay]

On 10/9/2022 at 11:53 AM, Taylor2023 said:

You know, I think a contest of "who to pick" for next season would be fun.   I wonder if there is one somewhere....?

I can't even think of anyone right now that would be a good fit.  Anybody?

I'd be willing to bet money that Kathy won't come back on the show.  Rinna will be there until they kick her to the curb.   She is addicted to the attention.   Where 'else' is she gonna get it?   Certainly not from her mostly absent ""husband"" and family.

Anybody would be an improvement from what the cast is now. The main thing is to get rid of Rinna, Diana, and Erika. Keep Garcelle, Crystal, and Sutton. Dorit can go, too. Kyle is a fixture. Rinna, sadly, has poisoned the well for Kathy. Mission accomplished, bitch. 👍🖕

Edited October 10, 2022 by RoseAllDay

[Avaleigh]

On 10/8/2022 at 9:06 AM, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I finally watched the last three episodes and I think the effort to make Kyle the bad guy here is... kind of weird.

I agree with most of your post and points about Kyle. I liked Kyle a lot in the earlier seasons of the show and I think that she's easily the least annoying between Rinna, Erika, and Dorit. I'm still mad at her about how she treated Denise and a few other things but I definitely have sympathy when it comes to her relationships with her sisters. The whole thing is messed up and I'm of the mostly unpopular opinion that Kim is the chief offender in the sister trio as opposed to being the perpetual victim that she paints herself out to be.

With Kathy, I agree that it's obvious that she can be vicious when she wants to be. That being said, I think if Kyle were really concerned about maintaining a positive relationship with Kathy, she wouldn't have repeatedly gone around calling her an asshole in this episode. That's just basic How-To-Get-Along-With-Someone 101.

Kyle didn't just say Kathy was being an asshole in the moment she was mouthing off to Rinna. She used the present tense. She thinks her sister is an asshole and was validating the opinion Rinna has that Kathy has a dark heart. Instead of acting like a sister who wanted to keep the relationship from going into a bad place, she shit talks her sister again while the cameras are going.

Instead of Kyle being the one to jump in and defend Kathy a little, it was Faye freaking Resnick who spoke up to say something favorable about Kathy during the pile on. Faye jumped in twice to defend Kathy while Kyle decided to pile on. I know Kyle wouldn't be happy if Kathy had done the same thing to her in front of the other women. If Kathy had said that Kyle was being an asshole by not being supportive of her tequila promotion and actually mocked her efforts to promote it on camera, Kyle would have been hurt.

Kyle wants to act like she hasn't done anything wrong as far as her behavior towards Kathy on the show and it isn't quite as simple as that. Kathy was 100% wrong for what she did and she knows it. She's apologized, she seems like she tried to make amends and she's gotten almost nothing but grief for it. 

[Oneofem]

Kyle may have sibling and audience probs, but Jamie Lee Curtis, an apparently decent celeb, certainly seems fond of her, judging by her comments on today’s broadcast of The View.  Jamie also snuck in info on her charity, My Hand in Yours, which I think she was promoting on RHBH this season.

[Avaleigh]

29 minutes ago, RoseAllDay said:

I just have a bad feeling, though, that those two are going to get a pass.

I'm worried too. It seems like sometimes they'll allow someone to stay if they're talked about a lot. Erika and Rinna generate a lot of discussion kind of the way that Brandi did once upon a time. Diana otoh, not too many people are talking about her. I honestly don't even remember if she was in this episode. I think she was because I vaguely remember seeing the husband but she's not very memorable. Not a good sign for a first season housewife. 

Based on this finale, Rinna makes more sense to chop if they're looking to axe two cast members (Diana +1). Erika...seems like Andy thinks she's a victim too so I don't see him withdrawing his support quite yet. He's okay with people hate watching as long as they're watching. 

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, janiema said:

From what I’ve seen on the show, Kathy and Kim don’t often have a problem with each other. The common denominator is Kyle.

Also, at one point Kyle said she didn’t want to go against (stand up) to Rinna and Erika because they were like sisters to her. She is better off with Kathy and Kim as her sisters than Erika and Rinna.

I don't understand how Kyle (and others) don't get how hurtful it is to hear Kyle say shit like that. I don't believe for one second that Kyle isn't calculating when she makes declarations like this. She feigns innocence about her treatment of her sisters but a big chunk of her existence on this show has be subliminal digs and accusations towards her sisters.

Look, I don't have a problem with Kyle feeling how she feels about the dynamic with her sisters. What I am completely disgusted with is how she tries to drape it around her as some safety cloak that absolves her from her toxic behavior towards them. And that she doesn't even seem to acknowledge her ugly and unhealthy contributions to their vicious cycle.

For once I wish Kyle would be HONEST about wanting to lash out at them. WANTING to leave them hanging to defend themselves cause you're not feeling their position on a disagreement they are having with one of the ladies or you JUST PLUM DON'T WANT TO cause you're feeling salty towards them cause of something else. If a chance to get even doesn't present itself during the actual conflict I have no doubt she isn't above collecting through some other conflict involving completely different players, if that makes sense.  Hell I would respect her position a whole lot more if she wasn't always trying to HIDE how she REALLY feels about any given situation regarding either sister. 

Come to think of it, has there been any season, situation or grievance regarding her sisters where she ever cops to any wrongdoing or missteps? Nope. It's always poor me, I do so much for them but they are always just so shitty or they bring shit upon themselves and expect me to be in their corner.

She has spent season after season building a case for HERSELF as the victim sister while the other two reek havoc on her life. Has Kyle ever done anything wrong to them?? Everywhere you turn, any slight or lack of support on Kyles end is a direct result of their abusive treatment towards HER. The narrative is always geared that way. Sure, sure sometimes there's an argument against Kyle, that she isn't being supportive,  that Kyle mistreats her sisters but it's usually short lived, and hardly even a part of the actually storyline of the show. It's usually outside critics and when all is said and done, when the smoke clears, the narrative that always remains and stays front and center is usually poor Kyle. The stuff she's had to put up with with her sisters.

That's my take anyway. 

[janiema]

1 hour ago, Oneofem said:

Kyle may have sibling and audience probs, but Jamie Lee Curtis, an apparently decent celeb, certainly seems fond of her, judging by her comments on today’s broadcast of The View.  Jamie also snuck in info on her charity, My Hand in Yours, which I think she was promoting on RHBH this season.

Jamie Lee does not have the misfortune of being Kyle’s sister.

[tranquilidade]

I notice that Kyle and Kathy are both trapped in a childish dynamic.  They never seemed to learn how to deal with each other as adults.   Kyle just can't ever let anything go, and even after making amends (remember LVP?) needs to keep revisiting the conflict to prove she was NOT responsible.  She also shows she can't have empathy.  Everything is about her feelings.  

Kyle acts like she may have always felt like the third wheel or the underdog with Kim and Kathy and now seems to have a neurotic need to show she is superior and more lovable.  This is so sick and can't have a happy ending. Why she thinks her sisters need to support her when they have their crap to deal with is beyond me. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

4 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I agree with most of your post and points about Kyle. I liked Kyle a lot in the earlier seasons of the show and I think that she's easily the least annoying between Rinna, Erika, and Dorit. I'm still mad at her about how she treated Denise and a few other things but I definitely have sympathy when it comes to her relationships with her sisters. The whole thing is messed up and I'm of the mostly unpopular opinion that Kim is the chief offender in the sister trio as opposed to being the perpetual victim that she paints herself out to be.

With Kathy, I agree that it's obvious that she can be vicious when she wants to be. That being said, I think if Kyle were really concerned about maintaining a positive relationship with Kathy, she wouldn't have repeatedly gone around calling her an asshole in this episode. That's just basic How-To-Get-Along-With-Someone 101.

Kyle didn't just say Kathy was being an asshole in the moment she was mouthing off to Rinna. She used the present tense. She thinks her sister is an asshole and was validating the opinion Rinna has that Kathy has a dark heart. Instead of acting like a sister who wanted to keep the relationship from going into a bad place, she shit talks her sister again while the cameras are going.

Instead of Kyle being the one to jump in and defend Kathy a little, it was Faye freaking Resnick who spoke up to say something favorable about Kathy during the pile on. Faye jumped in twice to defend Kathy while Kyle decided to pile on. I know Kyle wouldn't be happy if Kathy had done the same thing to her in front of the other women. If Kathy had said that Kyle was being an asshole by not being supportive of her tequila promotion and actually mocked her efforts to promote it on camera, Kyle would have been hurt.

Kyle wants to act like she hasn't done anything wrong as far as her behavior towards Kathy on the show and it isn't quite as simple as that. Kathy was 100% wrong for what she did and she knows it. She's apologized, she seems like she tried to make amends and she's gotten almost nothing but grief for it. 

I don't think Kyle's behavior towards Kathy is perfect.  I think that she needles Kathy in that little sister way and we certainly saw that in Aspen. I think that Kyle would be in a better place if she recognized that falls into unhealthy patterns with her sister, but I suspect she doesn't see it. (None of the three of them - Kathy, Kim, or Kyle - see it, to be fair).

I guess I don't agree with the characterization that Kyle really says much about Kathy that is particularly damaging in her talking heads. At least up until Aspen, most of what Kyle said in the THs was more close to teasing than anything else. And after Aspen... well, to be fair, Kathy said apparently awful things about Kyle, which Kathy has admitted to. I am not sure one can rightly expect Kyle to defend Kathy when Kathy was running down Kyle.

Which brings us to the confrontation where Faye was defending Kathy. Kyle is in a really difficult position here. Kathy apparently did act badly, specifically saying awful things about Kyle. Kyle wants quash it to protect her family, but a vociferous defense of Kathy by her probably isn't all that possible since she's the actual victim here. Faye was in a stronger position to defend Kathy.

I will say, I think Kyle has some resentments towards both of her sisters and she often ends up expressing them in damaging ways. All of them would be better off if none of them were on the show with her. But I still think a lot of people overlook Kathy's and Kim's flaws* because they perceive Kyle to be such a villain and I just don't see it that way.

* more Kathy than Kim, because I do think that after several seasons, a lot of people saw the challenges that Kim had.

[SnarkAttack]

1 hour ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I don't think Kyle's behavior towards Kathy is perfect.  I think that she needles Kathy in that little sister way and we certainly saw that in Aspen. I think that Kyle would be in a better place if she recognized that falls into unhealthy patterns with her sister, but I suspect she doesn't see it. (None of the three of them - Kathy, Kim, or Kyle - see it, to be fair).

I guess I don't agree with the characterization that Kyle really says much about Kathy that is particularly damaging in her talking heads. At least up until Aspen, most of what Kyle said in the THs was more close to teasing than anything else. And after Aspen... well, to be fair, Kathy said apparently awful things about Kyle, which Kathy has admitted to. I am not sure one can rightly expect Kyle to defend Kathy when Kathy was running down Kyle.

Which brings us to the confrontation where Faye was defending Kathy. Kyle is in a really difficult position here. Kathy apparently did act badly, specifically saying awful things about Kyle. Kyle wants quash it to protect her family, but a vociferous defense of Kathy by her probably isn't all that possible since she's the actual victim here. Faye was in a stronger position to defend Kathy.

I will say, I think Kyle has some resentments towards both of her sisters and she often ends up expressing them in damaging ways. All of them would be better off if none of them were on the show with her. But I still think a lot of people overlook Kathy's and Kim's flaws* because they perceive Kyle to be such a villain and I just don't see it that way.

* more Kathy than Kim, because I do think that after several seasons, a lot of people saw the challenges that Kim had.

I also thought it was more like teasing.  Like, "look at my kooky sister, wearing slippers on the plane!"  

[goofygirl]

7 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

1000x's THIS to the Bold!!!!!

Kyle somehow regresses into this child like, wide eyed persona when dealing with conflicts involving either sister. She never ever explores what it is that SHE has done to receive their reactions. I can't stand this generic defense people throw out there about not being responsible for how others feel or act. Well Kyle, when you are chumming with people who are absolutely evil to your sisters, that in itself warrants a bit of hurt. It's not that there isn't any truth to the idea that there is only so much Kyle can do in situations where OTHERS are mistreating her sisters but Kyle takes that defense a little too far when in some of those instances she's been a player in the ordeal to some extent. Can't pretend that the hurt is only stemming from Kyle not stepping in and being a protector. It's that but it's also the part where not only is she NOT stepping in to protect she is sometimes seen to be cosigning whatever mistreatment is being hurled their way.

It galls me to see Kyle's upbringing with her sisters, and of course family drama thrown out there as some excuse for giving Kyle passes for some of her missteps over the seasons. Yes, she has a complicated history with her sisters but a lot of the time that whole regressed, infant, scared behavior she reverts to during some conflict seems ABSOLUTELY put on! It's like uh-oh somethings going down with one of the ladies and my sister and I'm going to be expected to side with my sister so let me cry and bail so that everyone remembers how I've been mistreated by them and therefore understands why I chose to remove myself rather than try and protect my sister. 

I feel like this is what she does to get out of any blow back for lack of support. Honestly, I don't think she ever truly wants to side with her sisters at any point cause I think she enjoys it to some extent when they are being taken to task by any of the ladies. I think she gets some pleasure of seeing others do what she can't bring herself to do outright.  She also knows she can't sit there and smile with glee either so here comes crying, scared, 12 year old Kyle to distract from the fact that she isn't taking up for her sister(s). We've seen Kyle stand up for herself, speak up for herself and get into it time and time again but in defense of her sisters? When has she ever gotten to that level of assertive? Whether it's intention or unintentional Kyle never, ever allows herself to stick up for her sisters in a strong and solid way. The closest we ever get is the meek, distraught, "I have to concede cause these are my sisters" declarations under duress. 

Even now, Kyle's "support" of Kathy over Erika and Rinna sounds so damn meek and strained. Like it pains her to go against Rinna and Erika. Her reason isn't because she wants to support her sister against women that are relentlessly targeting Kathy. Oh no, her reason is so that everyone attends her daughters wedding. Like really Kyle? Gee, if I was your sister that would make me feel all warm and fuzzy....... NOT!

Look, Kyle has every reason to feel however she wants to feel about Kathy however that shouldn't affect her ability to show some strength, teeth and claws when addressing Erika and Rinna's attacks on her sister. Kyle can't ever seem to manage that believable level of energy when it comes to telling her "friends" to back off of her sisters and it shows. I personally believe THAT is what always keeps the cloud handing over their relationships. The fact that Kyle never seems to be at all happy with picking her sisters over whoever in any given conflict. Even when it isn't a hard choice. She just refuses. And if Kyle really wants to keep the peace and lessen the strain over the family as a whole she needs to come to terms with how she does it. Her half assed attempts over the years don't cut it and just continues to let the clouds invade the little bit of sun they manage to find time and time again. 

Either Kyle commits to the family or she accepts those rifts among them and call it a day but she's always trying to maintain this family bond while not respecting the boundaries in place. Their family dynamic is what it is and Kyle's biggest problem is yes wanting her cake and eating it too. You either want the loving comfort and security of your whole family and go to bat for them once in awhile or you can always stand by the wayside and watch outsiders attack them but then you have to accept that it fractures some of that family bond. 

Honestly, I think this whole sibling dysfunction of Kyle's is absolutely tiresome and overdone at this point. 

THIS!!! X100000! Excellent post!

[ZettaK]

On 10/9/2022 at 8:46 AM, Surrealist said:

Same. LVP isn't an idiot. She's more low-key with her treachery, but she definitely knows how to contact the tabs.

LVP was behind the puppygate leak (and probably more). She had a motive in doing it (to expose Dorit), and she is well known for her connections to tabloids and especially Radar Online. I don't blame her for the particular leak. As an animal lover and in animal rescue I was appalled by Dorit dumping the puppy at a kill shelter. The other HWs knew she did it (they have their sources), including Kyle, LVP refused to admit it, and their friendship ended.

I see Dorit bought (because I'm sure that's what she does instead of adopting from a rescue or a shelter) more puppies during the years. She had a trendy Goldendoodle this year, didn't she?

Edited October 12, 2022 by ZettaK
Grammar

[ZettaK]

On 10/9/2022 at 3:18 PM, Slakkie said:

Do we know that is true?  Those articles specifically mentioned Sutton's assistant who was not in Aspen.  For all we know that was added for spice and also was a good cover that Erika and Rinna could say 'see its not true so how could it be us?'

Unless there is proof I think it is unfair to assume that is true.  What we know is she threw a big ole temper tantrum and acted like a fool.  Other than that I do not know.  This is why Bravo needs to shut this kind of shit down - if it does not happen on camera it is not part of the show.

Sutton's assistant was not the one Kathy directed her alleged slurs at. I don't know why Sutton would say this, because the person was an employee of the private Aspen club per all the online posts, blogs, etc., and specifically the manager, as at least two of the HWs said in the previous episode. 

[ZettaK]

On 10/9/2022 at 7:22 AM, janiema said:

If Rinna hadn’t been involved this problem never would have occurred in the first place. If Rinna had not made such a big deal of disrespecting Kathy and her Tequila, Kathy would not have blown up. Also, if Kyle had acted like mist other sisters and had stepped in saying something to the effect of “I’d like to try Kathy’s tequila” the problem would have been averted. Kyle should have supported her sister and she is not some innocent. 

The HWs shouldn't have to cater to Kathy's every whim. The tequila she invested in along many others was promoted more than enough on the BH HWs like Bravo showed. She was not "disrespected" because one time it was not as much- it was promoted at the hat store anyway. The women had shots after Kathy left the store and was outside shaking. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by ZettaK

[ZettaK]

On 10/7/2022 at 7:56 PM, Yours Truly said:

Drag out a lawsuit? 🤔 kathy accuses Rinna of lying Rinna shows proof and there you go. This isn’t some custody battle or a bunch of lawsuits. I get that lawsuits can get “dragged out” but in all seriousness I doubt Kathy can drag a cease and desist libel/slander lawsuit for years and years and years even if she wanted to. It’s too weak of a subject material for the courts to even entertain letting it go on for too long. Let’s get real. 🙄

Kathy doesn't need to drag this for too long. Only until it's forgotten when some other HW scandal rears its ugly head which is probably happening already. Bravo is perpetuating the Kathy storyline anyway.

[CallmeCray]

15 hours ago, Mother of Odin said:

I cry daily Can't help it

I have a feeling you’re in good company on this one.  Crying is a soul-cleansing reminder that we are alive - it is not a sign of weakness, nor is it something for which we should feel ashamed!  Let those tears flow, people!!  FEELING can be our superpower! 👊🏼👍🏼💪🏼

I hope you’re feeling the hugs left for you! ❤️

[ivygirl]

On 10/9/2022 at 8:46 AM, Taylor2023 said:

Yes, Kyle has her own demons poking her, but from my perspective, she is merely reacting (most of the time) to what outside forces have said or done.   Outside forces (Rinna, Kim, Brandi, etc.) that always seem to love causing drama.  She does love to control the conversation though.

I think Kyle thrives on the drama, truth be told, and that if she’s merely reacting to outside forces, I think it’s because she lets herself do so, for whatever reason. Some of us would have either shut someone like Rinna down, or just walked away from some of the conversations that she’s been involved in. To borrow one of Harry Hamlin’s psychology textbooks: I think she has an external locus of control, meaning that her actions are based on what’s happening around her, versus self directed. It’s part of what causes a victim mentality (for anyone, not just Kyle).

Not that it’s easy to get out of that mindset, but walking away from drama and its instigators can be done. Easier in real life than reality TV, but still.

Edited October 11, 2022 by ivygirl
Sounding a little less absolute ;)

[Cosmocrush]

9 hours ago, ivygirl said:

Not that it’s easy to get out of that mindset, but walking away from drama and its instigators can be done. Easier in real life than reality TV, but still.

Kyle can't walk away in her own home, which is where Rinna decided to not accept Kathy's apology.   Seems like she got a lot of crap from Kathy when she didn't jump in at the hat store either, which I thought was ridiculous since Kathy seemed angrier at Kyle than Rinna. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Cosmocrush

[Talented Tenth]

I totally understand that a lot of people dislike Lisa for her behavior all season, especially the yelling at Sutton. Sutton is a fan favorite and some of the women seemed to pile on to her and bull her which turns people off. I definitely understand the "mean girl" sentiments as well. When I assess a situation, I don't let my personal feelings about a cast member color my commentary. I use facts, reasoning, logic and critical thinking. Whether one likes Lisa or not, here is my take:

In May of 2022, there were leaked messages from Lisa Rinna saying Kathy was a homophobic racist and that "they" were going to try to cover it up big time. Then according to a source:

According to the source, the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills cast was at a club in Aspen when Kathy “called the bouncer or a DJ the N-word and also called another worker a F—– (homophobic slur) because she wasn’t getting VIP treatment.”

Kathy apparently “had a tantrum,” which is when “Lisa pulled her out, and they went to Kyle’s house.”

When they got back to the house, Kathy reportedly “had a full-on fit” where “she was screaming and yelling.”

During the tantrum, Kathy “said she hated Kyle and called her all kinds of horrible names behind her back.”

Now, fast forward to the sit down between Lisa, Kathy and Kyle. Before Lisa entered, Kathy apologized to Kyle multiple times. It's clear that Kathy admitted to saying bad things about Kyle to Lisa and that what she said in Kyle's face on a camera was a contradiction to what she said privately. Kyle even said in a confessional she was skeptical about the apology. When Lisa entered to confront Kathy, she got Kathy to admit she said horrible and "cruel" things. I think there are probably a few reasons Lisa was itching not to keep it private and sweep it under the rug. 1. She didn't like Kathy coming in as a friend of the show trying to silence a vet. 2. Kathy's behavior was having a big effect on the cast. It wouldn't make sense not to address it. 3. Talking about a Kathy meltdown would be explosive for the show. 4. Kathy voluntarily signed up for the show. Being a Hilton and Kyle's sister doesn't give her a pass -- her bad behavior will be addressed like everyone else's.

It makes sense to me that Lisa Rinna said Kathy has a black heart and needs help if Lisa heard her say racist and gay slurs. Kyle wasn't saying anything because racist and homophobic comments are indefensible. Kyle was stuck between a rock and a hard place so silence was her safest option. Kathy wanted everything swept under the rug. Kathy did not deny or push back when it came to anything Lisa confronted her about.

We know Kathy has money, conducted an investigation about leaked stories and had other stories killed in efforts to protect her reputation/public persona. Notice that during the season, no one said any specifics when it came to what Kathy said. I'm not sure if Lisa held back on her own or if she got word from her bosses not to speak on the anything and especially the slurs. Kathy is a fan favorite and a big get. It wouldn't be a good look for Bravo or the cast to have another scandal.

During the finale, Lisa said she's being protective. I believe she's referring to the slurs. I think it's really bothering her that every other cast member gets put on blast but Kathy is being protected.

My other thoughts on a slight tangent:

Notice also, that Lisa only gave specific quotes in confessionals which were added after the season was done. I also saw a report that alleged the cast did not get to see the last two or three episodes like casts normally do to prep for the reunion. It's my theory that at some point it was decided that Kathy wouldn't return or that they wanted to blindside Kathy at the reunion with some of the statements. If they showed Kathy the last episodes that included Lisa revealing some of the things she said about taking down Kyle, Bravo and NBC, there was a risk Kathy wouldn't show. I think they finally sanctioned Lisa to spill in the confessionals. On social media, I have not seen a single denial from Kathy about anything. All she has been doing is retweeting negative comments about Lisa. Kathy knows she's a fan fave and lot of viewers are blindly supporting her. She doesn't have to do much to keep people on her side.

Housewives and insiders all say that Bravo doesn't like litigiousness and legalities. I didn't think Kathy would return but I see that she's going to be at Bravocon. It's my thought that it's a contractual obligation or that Kathy agreed to only return if her slurs weren't exposed on the show. Lisa Rinna is also going to Bravocon now. I think maybe Lisa's disasterous social media this year was because she felt like she was being seen as the bad guy, while, in her mind, the actual bad guy was a fan fave, she had been told not to mention the slurs and she was frustrated having to choose between her job or revealing the truth.

[SnarkAttack]

So all of the drama between the women is fake, right?  They don't dislike each other, they are just doing it for the ratings.  It just really bugs me.  

Or, they all have dirt on each other and they really DO dislike someone, but have to play nice or else their secrets are going to be exposed.  THAT really bugs me too.  

NOTHING is genuine.  Then why watch? 

[ivygirl]

41 minutes ago, Cosmocrush said:

Kyle can't walk away in her own home, which is where Rinna decided to not accept Kathy's apology.   Seems like she got a lot of crap from Kathy when she didn't jump in at the hat store either, which I thought was ridiculous since Kathy seemed angrier at Kyle than Rinna. 

Well, no, she probably couldn’t have walked away in that specific instance—but there are ways of managing it differently than she did. I know it’s easy for me to say “she should have done X Y or Z” but my main point is, I don’t think Kyle is completely un-responsible for the way she handles drama; it doesn’t just happen to her, she has a part in it. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by ivygirl

[endure]

1 hour ago, Talented Tenth said:

I totally understand that a lot of people dislike Lisa for her behavior all season, especially the yelling at Sutton. Sutton is a fan favorite and some of the women seemed to pile on to her and bull her which turns people off. I definitely understand the "mean girl" sentiments as well. When I assess a situation, I don't let my personal feelings about a cast member color my commentary. I use facts, reasoning, logic and critical thinking. Whether one likes Lisa or not, here is my take:

In May of 2022, there were leaked messages from Lisa Rinna saying Kathy was a homophobic racist and that "they" were going to try to cover it up big time. Then according to a source:

According to the source, the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills cast was at a club in Aspen when Kathy “called the bouncer or a DJ the N-word and also called another worker a F—– (homophobic slur) because she wasn’t getting VIP treatment.”

Kathy apparently “had a tantrum,” which is when “Lisa pulled her out, and they went to Kyle’s house.”

When they got back to the house, Kathy reportedly “had a full-on fit” where “she was screaming and yelling.”

During the tantrum, Kathy “said she hated Kyle and called her all kinds of horrible names behind her back.”

Now, fast forward to the sit down between Lisa, Kathy and Kyle. Before Lisa entered, Kathy apologized to Kyle multiple times. It's clear that Kathy admitted to saying bad things about Kyle to Lisa and that what she said in Kyle's face on a camera was a contradiction to what she said privately. Kyle even said in a confessional she was skeptical about the apology. When Lisa entered to confront Kathy, she got Kathy to admit she said horrible and "cruel" things. I think there are probably a few reasons Lisa was itching not to keep it private and sweep it under the rug. 1. She didn't like Kathy coming in as a friend of the show trying to silence a vet. 2. Kathy's behavior was having a big effect on the cast. It wouldn't make sense not to address it. 3. Talking about a Kathy meltdown would be explosive for the show. 4. Kathy voluntarily signed up for the show. Being a Hilton and Kyle's sister doesn't give her a pass -- her bad behavior will be addressed like everyone else's.

It makes sense to me that Lisa Rinna said Kathy has a black heart and needs help if Lisa heard her say racist and gay slurs. Kyle wasn't saying anything because racist and homophobic comments are indefensible. Kyle was stuck between a rock and a hard place so silence was her safest option. Kathy wanted everything swept under the rug. Kathy did not deny or push back when it came to anything Lisa confronted her about.

We know Kathy has money, conducted an investigation about leaked stories and had other stories killed in efforts to protect her reputation/public persona. Notice that during the season, no one said any specifics when it came to what Kathy said. I'm not sure if Lisa held back on her own or if she got word from her bosses not to speak on the anything and especially the slurs. Kathy is a fan favorite and a big get. It wouldn't be a good look for Bravo or the cast to have another scandal.

During the finale, Lisa said she's being protective. I believe she's referring to the slurs. I think it's really bothering her that every other cast member gets put on blast but Kathy is being protected.

My other thoughts on a slight tangent:

Notice also, that Lisa only gave specific quotes in confessionals which were added after the season was done. I also saw a report that alleged the cast did not get to see the last two or three episodes like casts normally do to prep for the reunion. It's my theory that at some point it was decided that Kathy wouldn't return or that they wanted to blindside Kathy at the reunion with some of the statements. If they showed Kathy the last episodes that included Lisa revealing some of the things she said about taking down Kyle, Bravo and NBC, there was a risk Kathy wouldn't show. I think they finally sanctioned Lisa to spill in the confessionals. On social media, I have not seen a single denial from Kathy about anything. All she has been doing is retweeting negative comments about Lisa. Kathy knows she's a fan fave and lot of viewers are blindly supporting her. She doesn't have to do much to keep people on her side.

Housewives and insiders all say that Bravo doesn't like litigiousness and legalities. I didn't think Kathy would return but I see that she's going to be at Bravocon. It's my thought that it's a contractual obligation or that Kathy agreed to only return if her slurs weren't exposed on the show. Lisa Rinna is also going to Bravocon now. I think maybe Lisa's disasterous social media this year was because she felt like she was being seen as the bad guy, while, in her mind, the actual bad guy was a fan fave, she had been told not to mention the slurs and she was frustrated having to choose between her job or revealing the truth.

You are referencing one incident where Rinna bullies and picks on a cast mate, there have been many, it's how she operates in her soap opera mentality.  If this were a one time incident with Lisa it could be a different story but it's simply not.  I haven't delved into the history between Lisa and Kathy but I got the impression something has been off between them for a while.  I don't know what went down in Aspen we didn't see it.  But I personally have seen enough of Rinna and how she treats other people.

[kassa]

On 10/9/2022 at 11:24 AM, RealHousewife said:

Kyle is way too quick to have these tantrums. In some ways Big Kathy made her grow up very fast. She was driving herself at 13. She worked as a child. She became a wife and a mother very young. It's amazing to me someone with her life isn't more mature, but maybe she was just never taught to act right or didn't get a chance to grow up? IDK, but I find it fascinating as someone who's watched her on TV for many years and seen her constantly loose her cool.

One thing I've noticed is oftentimes some of the most aggressive people will use tears to play the victim in order to get away with stuff. 

I'm sure tears were a useful tool to get the family to back off when she was the "baby" and tensions/pressure got high. Even if it was just "there goes Kyle again - I just can't with her!" instead of actual sympathy. She may have served as the canary in the coalmine when things got especially toxic around the house, and learned to cry sooner rather than later.

I think the fact that she seems to have broken a very sick cycle and raised some healthy, productive citizens for children is remarkable. The majority of pot stirring she does I put down to her shadow role as production arm.  They all get their assignments. Garcelle even does it, though I enjoy the fact that she just flat out states her obligatory conversation stater so it's awkward and obviously not something she's trying to pretend she would ever ask in real life. "So, Erika says Tom still calls her! Let's discuss!"

On 10/9/2022 at 11:53 AM, Taylor2023 said:

You know, I think a contest of "who to pick" for next season would be fun.   I wonder if there is one somewhere....?

I can't even think of anyone right now that would be a good fit.  Anybody?

There has always been talk of LaToya Jackson being on - whether from her camp or within Bravo or just fan chatter. Kathy and LaToya are close and LaToya publicly supported her in this recent flare up. I could see Kathy coming back if she gets to bring LaToya. Andy would LOVE a Jackson, and she's certainly quirky enough to provide some material. No doubt Rinna once attended one of Michael's concerts as his very special guest so they can bond over that. 

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, ivygirl said:

Well, no, she probably couldn’t have walked away in that specific instance—but there are ways of managing it differently than she did. I know it’s easy for me to say “she should have done X Y or Z” but my main point is, I don’t think Kyle is completely un-responsible for the way she handles drama; it doesn’t just happen to her, she has a part in it. 

Agreed! I think the thing that has always bugged me when it comes to Kyle is that she's such a cry baby. Everything is something that is happening to her and she has NO contribution whatsoever to the series of events. I would be more sympathetic to Kyle if she wasn't always trying to paint the most tumultuous picture with regards to any conflict. The only time she's ever responded in an accountable manor was when Garcelle broke down her reasoning regarding their conflict. She was pretty receptive to that. She didn't 100% cop to being petty but whatever. It was better than usual. 

The last few seasons Kyle has actually sorta copped to being a shirt stirrer but always manages to drape it with lightheartedness so ehhhhh okay, she finds a way to get away with the lighter stuff. I'm good with that. Buy yeah, Kyle is never the antagonist, never the mean girl, never the unreasonable one just always the wronged one or misunderstood one or well meaning one. 

Kyle wants all of the drama and all of the sympathy but never wants any blow back for choosing to mishandle a situation. 

[ivygirl]

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

Agreed! I think the thing that has always bugged me when it comes to Kyle is that she's such a cry baby. Everything is something that is happening to her and she has NO contribution whatsoever to the series of events. I would be more sympathetic to Kyle if she wasn't always trying to paint the most tumultuous picture with regards to any conflict. The only time she's ever responded in an accountable manor was when Garcelle broke down her reasoning regarding their conflict. She was pretty receptive to that. She didn't 100% cop to being petty but whatever. It was better than usual. 

The last few seasons Kyle has actually sorta copped to being a shirt stirrer but always manages to drape it with lightheartedness so ehhhhh okay, she finds a way to get away with the lighter stuff. I'm good with that. Buy yeah, Kyle is never the antagonist, never the mean girl, never the unreasonable one just always the wronged one or misunderstood one or well meaning one. 

Kyle wants all of the drama and all of the sympathy but never wants any blow back for choosing to mishandle a situation. 

Admittedly I’ve never been much of a Kyle fan… it’s taken me a while to realize why, but it’s because I have a “Kyle” in my life that I’ve had to distance myself from. She’s not the worst—and even some of my “favorites” started showing worse traits over time—but I’ve never connected with her and I think all of this is why. 

I feel for her and her upbringing, but the way she acts is hard for me to watch. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

Agreed! I think the thing that has always bugged me when it comes to Kyle is that she's such a cry baby. Everything is something that is happening to her and she has NO contribution whatsoever to the series of events. I would be more sympathetic to Kyle if she wasn't always trying to paint the most tumultuous picture with regards to any conflict. The only time she's ever responded in an accountable manor was when Garcelle broke down her reasoning regarding their conflict. She was pretty receptive to that. She didn't 100% cop to being petty but whatever. It was better than usual. 

The last few seasons Kyle has actually sorta copped to being a shirt stirrer but always manages to drape it with lightheartedness so ehhhhh okay, she finds a way to get away with the lighter stuff. I'm good with that. Buy yeah, Kyle is never the antagonist, never the mean girl, never the unreasonable one just always the wronged one or misunderstood one or well meaning one. 

Kyle wants all of the drama and all of the sympathy but never wants any blow back for choosing to mishandle a situation. 

Actually, she talked about this season the blowback she received from season one and the experience she had with Kim. (She talked about it as related to Garcelle's concerns about Erika's drinking). 

The only time that Kyle skated, IMO, in terms of actively doing something shady is when she brought Brandi on to talk about Brandi's alleged "affair" with Denise (which I still don't think happened but whatever). That was clearly Kyle meddling I I can't really believe she wasn't called on it.

But other times, when she says damaging stuff (like Kim or confronting LVP or Garcelle), she's held accountable just like everyone else. And as for things like bringing up what happened at Rinna's wine party - to me, that's basically just moving the plot along and she's so blatant about it that I can't be mad at her about it. At the very least, she's not sneaky about it.

[Yours Truly]

32 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Actually, she talked about this season the blowback she received from season one and the experience she had with Kim. (She talked about it as related to Garcelle's concerns about Erika's drinking). 

The only time that Kyle skated, IMO, in terms of actively doing something shady is when she brought Brandi on to talk about Brandi's alleged "affair" with Denise (which I still don't think happened but whatever). That was clearly Kyle meddling I I can't really believe she wasn't called on it.

But other times, when she says damaging stuff (like Kim or confronting LVP or Garcelle), she's held accountable just like everyone else. And as for things like bringing up what happened at Rinna's wine party - to me, that's basically just moving the plot along and she's so blatant about it that I can't be mad at her about it. At the very least, she's not sneaky about it.

Maybe on social media or here on forums but I'm saying on the show. Since when has Kyle ever been in the hot seat by the other women? Or when has there ever been a dragged out "pantygate", "puppygate", "bringing back a coat gate", "threesomegate", etc. etc. where Kyle was the one that was being taken to task? And this has been going on even before FFF formed. I think the one and only time there was eyes on Kyle for a good chunk of the season was her beef with Camille waaaaayyyy back when. After that, once the news broke of Kyle and her dysfunctional family dynamic she's not once ever truly been gunned for even though she's has a huge part in a lot of side eye bullcrap. Now with the FFF it's even less likely but yeah, Kyle doesn't ever get any real time in the hot seat on the show even after being a huge part of the problem. Whenever there's a juicy storyline  that involves her the narrative is always how bad Kyle's anxiety is and how she's so uncomfortable it's not fair she didn't do anything and on and on and on. She's always a participate or recipient but never the antagonist when clearly she has been. In a few of these seasons Kyle's hands weren't clean regarding some of the heavy (well heavy for reality tv) but none of the ladies are even interested in going after her. So no I don't think she's ever truly been held accountable like some of the others on the show.  

Edited October 11, 2022 by Yours Truly

[Avaleigh]

4 hours ago, Talented Tenth said:

I totally understand that a lot of people dislike Lisa for her behavior all season, especially the yelling at Sutton. Sutton is a fan favorite and some of the women seemed to pile on to her and bull her which turns people off. I definitely understand the "mean girl" sentiments as well. When I assess a situation, I don't let my personal feelings about a cast member color my commentary. I use facts, reasoning, logic and critical thinking. Whether one likes Lisa or not, here is my take:

In May of 2022, there were leaked messages from Lisa Rinna saying Kathy was a homophobic racist and that "they" were going to try to cover it up big time. Then according to a source:

According to the source, the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills cast was at a club in Aspen when Kathy “called the bouncer or a DJ the N-word and also called another worker a F—– (homophobic slur) because she wasn’t getting VIP treatment.”

Kathy apparently “had a tantrum,” which is when “Lisa pulled her out, and they went to Kyle’s house.”

When they got back to the house, Kathy reportedly “had a full-on fit” where “she was screaming and yelling.”

During the tantrum, Kathy “said she hated Kyle and called her all kinds of horrible names behind her back.”

Now, fast forward to the sit down between Lisa, Kathy and Kyle. Before Lisa entered, Kathy apologized to Kyle multiple times. It's clear that Kathy admitted to saying bad things about Kyle to Lisa and that what she said in Kyle's face on a camera was a contradiction to what she said privately. Kyle even said in a confessional she was skeptical about the apology. When Lisa entered to confront Kathy, she got Kathy to admit she said horrible and "cruel" things. I think there are probably a few reasons Lisa was itching not to keep it private and sweep it under the rug. 1. She didn't like Kathy coming in as a friend of the show trying to silence a vet. 2. Kathy's behavior was having a big effect on the cast. It wouldn't make sense not to address it. 3. Talking about a Kathy meltdown would be explosive for the show. 4. Kathy voluntarily signed up for the show. Being a Hilton and Kyle's sister doesn't give her a pass -- her bad behavior will be addressed like everyone else's.

It makes sense to me that Lisa Rinna said Kathy has a black heart and needs help if Lisa heard her say racist and gay slurs. Kyle wasn't saying anything because racist and homophobic comments are indefensible. Kyle was stuck between a rock and a hard place so silence was her safest option. Kathy wanted everything swept under the rug. Kathy did not deny or push back when it came to anything Lisa confronted her about.

We know Kathy has money, conducted an investigation about leaked stories and had other stories killed in efforts to protect her reputation/public persona. Notice that during the season, no one said any specifics when it came to what Kathy said. I'm not sure if Lisa held back on her own or if she got word from her bosses not to speak on the anything and especially the slurs. Kathy is a fan favorite and a big get. It wouldn't be a good look for Bravo or the cast to have another scandal.

During the finale, Lisa said she's being protective. I believe she's referring to the slurs. I think it's really bothering her that every other cast member gets put on blast but Kathy is being protected.

My other thoughts on a slight tangent:

Notice also, that Lisa only gave specific quotes in confessionals which were added after the season was done. I also saw a report that alleged the cast did not get to see the last two or three episodes like casts normally do to prep for the reunion. It's my theory that at some point it was decided that Kathy wouldn't return or that they wanted to blindside Kathy at the reunion with some of the statements. If they showed Kathy the last episodes that included Lisa revealing some of the things she said about taking down Kyle, Bravo and NBC, there was a risk Kathy wouldn't show. I think they finally sanctioned Lisa to spill in the confessionals. On social media, I have not seen a single denial from Kathy about anything. All she has been doing is retweeting negative comments about Lisa. Kathy knows she's a fan fave and lot of viewers are blindly supporting her. She doesn't have to do much to keep people on her side.

Housewives and insiders all say that Bravo doesn't like litigiousness and legalities. I didn't think Kathy would return but I see that she's going to be at Bravocon. It's my thought that it's a contractual obligation or that Kathy agreed to only return if her slurs weren't exposed on the show. Lisa Rinna is also going to Bravocon now. I think maybe Lisa's disasterous social media this year was because she felt like she was being seen as the bad guy, while, in her mind, the actual bad guy was a fan fave, she had been told not to mention the slurs and she was frustrated having to choose between her job or revealing the truth.

Is it fair to say that Garcelle has been a reasonably objective voice on this show? For the most part I feel like she's been pretty fair and straightforward. If it's supposedly common knowledge among the people involved with the show and various media outlets that Kathy used racist and homophobic language, why has Garcelle continued to be supportive of Kathy? I understand that she might not be able to comment on specifics of the incident for legal reasons but why does she still seem to be friends with Kathy?

Similarly, Crystal seems like she has been relatively supportive of Kathy. Crystal and Garcelle are both cast members who are especially sensitive to this topic considering the racist bullying they've personally had to deal with. It's hard for me to believe that they'd be supportive of Kathy if she'd dropped the n word and f word to people in Aspen. 

I'm not saying it's impossible, I've heard stranger stuff than that in housewives land, I just don't think it seems likely based on what we know.

Wrt Rinna, her past behavior absolutely plays into why I'm giving Kathy the benefit of the doubt about these rumors. It is a fact that Rinna has lied in the past. It is a fact that Rinna has exaggerated about other cast members in the past. It is a fact that Rinna is a hypocrite when it comes to "dark" unacceptable behavior. It is a fact that Rinna has gone out of her way to help oust a cast member that she wants to see gone for whatever reason. 

Sidenote: I've actually been able to witness first hand both Rinna and Kathy interact with staff. (Two separate sightings.) Between the two of them it was Kathy who was the warm and friendly one. Also, notably the cameras weren't present for the Kathy sighting (this was around 2017 or 2018) so this was just Kathy in a candid moment. Obviously this doesn't prove anything. I have no idea what happened or what was said in Aspen. I just feel like Kathy deserves the benefit of the doubt until more evidence is presented. I won't cancel someone based on Rinna's word alone. 

[RealHousewife]

23 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Maybe on social media or here on forums but I'm saying on the show. Since when has Kyle ever been in the hot seat by the other women? Or when has there ever been a dragged out "pantygate", "puppygate", "bringing back a coat gate", "threesomegate", etc. etc. where Kyle was the one that was being taken to task? And this has been going on even before FFF formed. I think the one and only time there was eyes on Kyle for a good chunk of the season was her beef with Camille waaaaayyyy back when. After that, once the news broke of Kyle and her dysfunctional family dynamic she's not once ever truly been gunned for even though she's has a huge part in a lot of side eye bullcrap. Now with the FFF it's even less likely but yeah, Kyle doesn't ever get any real time in the hot seat on the show even after being a huge part of the problem. Whenever there's a juicy storyline  that involves her the narrative is always how bad Kyle's anxiety is and how she's so uncomfortable it's not fair she didn't do anything and on and on and on. She's always a participate or recipient but never the antagonist when clearly she has been. In a few of these seasons Kyle's hands weren't clean regarding some of the heavy (well heavy for reality tv) but none of the ladies are even interested in going after her. So no I don't think she's ever truly been held accountable like some of the others on the show.  

Exactly. I'd respect Kyle more if she owned that she's somewhat of a villain. 

2 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

Is it fair to say that Garcelle has been a reasonably objective voice on this show? For the most part I feel like she's been pretty fair and straightforward. If it's supposedly common knowledge among the people involved with the show and various media outlets that Kathy used racist and homophobic language, why has Garcelle continued to be supportive of Kathy? I understand that she might not be able to comment on specifics of the incident for legal reasons but why does she still seem to be friends with Kathy?

Similarly, Crystal seems like she has been relatively supportive of Kathy. Crystal and Garcelle are both cast members who are especially sensitive to this topic considering the racist bullying they've personally had to deal with. It's hard for me to believe that they'd be supportive of Kathy if she'd dropped the n word and f word to people in Aspen. 

I'm not saying it's impossible, I've heard stranger stuff than that in housewives land, I just don't think it seems likely based on what we know.

Wrt Rinna, her past behavior absolutely plays into why I'm giving Kathy the benefit of the doubt about these rumors. It is a fact that Rinna has lied in the past. It is a fact that Rinna has exaggerated about other cast members in the past. It is a fact that Rinna is a hypocrite when it comes to "dark" unacceptable behavior. It is a fact that Rinna has gone out of her way to help oust a cast member that she wants to see gone for whatever reason. 

Sidenote: I've actually been able to witness first hand both Rinna and Kathy interact with staff. (Two separate sightings.) Between the two of them it was Kathy who was the warm and friendly one. Also, notably the cameras weren't present for the Kathy sighting (this was around 2017 or 2018) so this was just Kathy in a candid moment. Obviously this doesn't prove anything. I have no idea what happened or what was said in Aspen. I just feel like Kathy deserves the benefit of the doubt until more evidence is presented. I won't cancel someone based on Rinna's word alone. 

I find it interesting Kathy has more friends of color than any of them! Is it still possible she used slurs? Of course! But without anything other than those texts from Rinna, I'm giving her benefit of the doubt. I don't trust Rinna. I'm sure she hates that Kathy is such a hit with the fans and that she's so rich and doesn't have to do anything to be rich or famous. Even Kyle knows the Hilton name is more famous than any of theirs. Kathy doesn't have to "hustle," be a Housewife, model diapers or do anything. She's filthy rich.

[Avaleigh]

54 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Maybe on social media or here on forums but I'm saying on the show. Since when has Kyle ever been in the hot seat by the other women? Or when has there ever been a dragged out "pantygate", "puppygate", "bringing back a coat gate", "threesomegate", etc. etc. where Kyle was the one that was being taken to task? And this has been going on even before FFF formed. I think the one and only time there was eyes on Kyle for a good chunk of the season was her beef with Camille waaaaayyyy back when. After that, once the news broke of Kyle and her dysfunctional family dynamic she's not once ever truly been gunned for even though she's has a huge part in a lot of side eye bullcrap. Now with the FFF it's even less likely but yeah, Kyle doesn't ever get any real time in the hot seat on the show even after being a huge part of the problem. Whenever there's a juicy storyline  that involves her the narrative is always how bad Kyle's anxiety is and how she's so uncomfortable it's not fair she didn't do anything and on and on and on. She's always a participate or recipient but never the antagonist when clearly she has been. In a few of these seasons Kyle's hands weren't clean regarding some of the heavy (well heavy for reality tv) but none of the ladies are even interested in going after her. So no I don't think she's ever truly been held accountable like some of the others on the show.  

Interesting. I'd never really thought about this before but you're right. The only time I can think of her being in the hot seat is maybe at the reunions. 

[65mickey]

Has  anyone other than "a source" or Rinna said that they heard Kathy scream out racist or homophobic rants or call someone the n word at the club?  Crystal said last week that  she didn't hear anything in the club because the music was so loud.  Sutton didn't hear anything. Garcele didn't go to the club. So all of this coming from just Rinna. I haven't even heard Erika or Diana chime in on what they heard Kathy say.  Nope just not buying it.  It is very hard for me to imagine in this day and age that anyone other than a complete moron would say these things even in a drunken state. I can see a melt down and screaming about Kyle and even the other housewives but not what Rinna is saying that Kathy said things that could ruin people's lives forever. Exactly what could Kathy say that could ruin people lives?? And as far as Rinna being protective BS. She ran to everyone who would listen and everytime she retold it it got worse. 

[Yours Truly]

14 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

And as far as Rinna being protective BS. She ran to everyone who would listen and everytime she retold it it got worse. 

On camera! Oh yeah, very protective. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Yours Truly

[eleanorofaquitaine]

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

Maybe on social media or here on forums but I'm saying on the show. Since when has Kyle ever been in the hot seat by the other women? Or when has there ever been a dragged out "pantygate", "puppygate", "bringing back a coat gate", "threesomegate", etc. etc. where Kyle was the one that was being taken to task? And this has been going on even before FFF formed. I think the one and only time there was eyes on Kyle for a good chunk of the season was her beef with Camille waaaaayyyy back when. After that, once the news broke of Kyle and her dysfunctional family dynamic she's not once ever truly been gunned for even though she's has a huge part in a lot of side eye bullcrap. Now with the FFF it's even less likely but yeah, Kyle doesn't ever get any real time in the hot seat on the show even after being a huge part of the problem. Whenever there's a juicy storyline  that involves her the narrative is always how bad Kyle's anxiety is and how she's so uncomfortable it's not fair she didn't do anything and on and on and on. She's always a participate or recipient but never the antagonist when clearly she has been. In a few of these seasons Kyle's hands weren't clean regarding some of the heavy (well heavy for reality tv) but none of the ladies are even interested in going after her. So no I don't think she's ever truly been held accountable like some of the others on the show.  

Since when has Kyle done anything like any of those things to be "dragged" for? I mean, like it or not, the other women get dragged when the actually do silly or stupid things (or talk about doing those things, I guess). 

As you noted, Kyle got dragged for the stuff from the first season. She was certainly called out by Garcelle re the stuff about the charity ball (but to both of their credits, Kyle and Garcelle talked about it like adults and got past it). 

Kyle could certainly be called out by her cast mates for pot-stirring but she would likely admit to it and that would make a rather poor and uninteresting plot. 

The truth is that probably Kyle is a bit boring and doesn't actually do enough for the other women to drag her. And she's so open about stirring the pot that they can't really get her for it like they did with LVP, who always wanted to do everything behind the scenes to keep her hands clean. I suppose they could have gone after her for focusing on Denise a little too intensely (as I mentioned above) but even then, it's not like she was hiding that.

I suppose if there is any truth to the rumors about Mo, then that could be evidence that Kyle has some super protective powers. But right now, all we have are rumors. 

[RealHousewife]

3 hours ago, 65mickey said:

Has  anyone other than "a source" or Rinna said that they heard Kathy scream out racist or homophobic rants or call someone the n word at the club?  Crystal said last week that  she didn't hear anything in the club because the music was so loud.  Sutton didn't hear anything. Garcele didn't go to the club. So all of this coming from just Rinna. I haven't even heard Erika or Diana chime in on what they heard Kathy say.  Nope just not buying it.  It is very hard for me to imagine in this day and age that anyone other than a complete moron would say these things even in a drunken state. I can see a melt down and screaming about Kyle and even the other housewives but not what Rinna is saying that Kathy said things that could ruin people's lives forever. Exactly what could Kathy say that could ruin people lives?? And as far as Rinna being protective BS. She ran to everyone who would listen and everytime she retold it it got worse. 

I'd say stuff that can ruin's people's lives is outing your sister as an alcoholic or pushing a coworker or friend to discuss her sex life on camera. That's more Fox Force 5 though, NOT Kathy.  

Edited October 11, 2022 by RealHousewife

[65mickey]

3 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

I'd say stuff that can ruin's people's likes is outing your sister as an alcoholic or pushing a coworker or friend to discuss her sex life on camera. That's more Fox Force 5 though, NOT Kathy.  

Exactly! 

[Surrealist]

7 hours ago, ivygirl said:

Admittedly I’ve never been much of a Kyle fan… it’s taken me a while to realize why, but it’s because I have a “Kyle” in my life that I’ve had to distance myself from. 

This is why some of us don't really care for her. We have a Kyle in our lives. Some of us probably have a few.

[RealHousewife]

32 minutes ago, Surrealist said:

This is why some of us don't really care for her. We have a Kyle in our lives. Some of us probably have a few.

Yep! Lol I have a Kyle. She’s quick to pop off and quick to cry. It’s exhausting to deal with. 

[Cosmocrush]

7 hours ago, ivygirl said:

Admittedly I’ve never been much of a Kyle fan… it’s taken me a while to realize why, but it’s because I have a “Kyle” in my life that I’ve had to distance myself from. She’s not the worst—and even some of my “favorites” started showing worse traits over time—but I’ve never connected with her and I think all of this is why. 

That's interesting; I have a "Kathy" in my life.  Ten years older, considered a "success" by entire family and a bit of a diva.   We have been best friends, sisters and estranged (not necessarily in that order).

[Stats Queen]

12 hours ago, Talented Tenth said:

When I assess a situation, I don't let my personal feelings about a cast member color my commentary. I use facts, reasoning, logic and critical thinking. Whether one likes Lisa or not, here is my take:

A lot of us on this forum also use facts, reasoning, logic and critical thinking ahead of our personal opinions when assessing these situations. 
 

[goofygirl]

4 hours ago, Surrealist said:

This is why some of us don't really care for her. We have a Kyle in our lives. Some of us probably have a few.

Yep,we sure do!! I refer to the one in my life as "the turd stirrer".....

[ZettaK]

9 hours ago, 65mickey said:

Has  anyone other than "a source" or Rinna said that they heard Kathy scream out racist or homophobic rants or call someone the n word at the club?  Crystal said last week that  she didn't hear anything in the club because the music was so loud.  Sutton didn't hear anything. Garcele didn't go to the club. So all of this coming from just Rinna. I haven't even heard Erika or Diana chime in on what they heard Kathy say.  Nope just not buying it.  It is very hard for me to imagine in this day and age that anyone other than a complete moron would say these things even in a drunken state. I can see a melt down and screaming about Kyle and even the other housewives but not what Rinna is saying that Kathy said things that could ruin people's lives forever. Exactly what could Kathy say that could ruin people lives?? And as far as Rinna being protective BS. She ran to everyone who would listen and everytime she retold it it got worse. 

Kathy said terrible things about Kyle (that she would destroy her, and her family, etc.), and she didn't deny it. In fact she admitted it, so Rinna didn't lie about it. Kathy is an anachronism and entitled- she could use slurs. At least two of her kids (Paris and Conrad) used racist/homophobic slurs. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by ZettaK

[hoodooznoodooz]

Erika’s so stupid. She thinks they are accusing her team of leaking this gossip about Kathy Hilton to distract the individuals who are suing her.

[Talented Tenth]

17 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

17 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Is it fair to say that Garcelle has been a reasonably objective voice on this show? For the most part I feel like she's been pretty fair and straightforward. If it's supposedly common knowledge among the people involved with the show and various media outlets that Kathy used racist and homophobic language, why has Garcelle continued to be supportive of Kathy? I understand that she might not be able to comment on specifics of the incident for legal reasons but why does she still seem to be friends with Kathy?

Similarly, Crystal seems like she has been relatively supportive of Kathy. Crystal and Garcelle are both cast members who are especially sensitive to this topic considering the racist bullying they've personally had to deal with. It's hard for me to believe that they'd be supportive of Kathy if she'd dropped the n word and f word to people in Aspen. 

I'm not saying it's impossible, I've heard stranger stuff than that in housewives land, I just don't think it seems likely based on what we know.

Wrt Rinna, her past behavior absolutely plays into why I'm giving Kathy the benefit of the doubt about these rumors. It is a fact that Rinna has lied in the past. It is a fact that Rinna has exaggerated about other cast members in the past. It is a fact that Rinna is a hypocrite when it comes to "dark" unacceptable behavior. It is a fact that Rinna has gone out of her way to help oust a cast member that she wants to see gone for whatever reason. 

Sidenote: I've actually been able to witness first hand both Rinna and Kathy interact with staff. (Two separate sightings.) Between the two of them it was Kathy who was the warm and friendly one. Also, notably the cameras weren't present for the Kathy sighting (this was around 2017 or 2018) so this was just Kathy in a candid moment. Obviously this doesn't prove anything. I have no idea what happened or what was said in Aspen. I just feel like Kathy deserves the benefit of the doubt until more evidence is presented. I won't cancel someone based on Rinna's word alone. 

I think people will ignore a lot of things for personal benefit.  Paris is on video using slurs yet Garcelle went to her bridal shower and wedding.  Like Dorit said, Kathy is considered "super elite".  A lot of people are happy to associate with her because it's a good look.  After Paris' slurs were exposed there were Black celebrities who still associated with her too.

10 hours ago, Stats Queen said:

A lot of us on this forum also use facts, reasoning, logic and critical thinking ahead of our personal opinions when assessing these situations. 
 

 Yes, some do but I also saw a of "I hate Rinna so I'm going to ignore, downplay or dismiss the possibility that Kathy said/did anything bad".  To Kathy's face, Rinna said she needed help, had a psychotic break, said cruel things and had a black heart.  Kathy denied nothing, did not push back and apologized multiple times.  Kathy also denied nothing Rinna said in confessionals that were filmed after the season although Kathy is busy on social media retweeting negative things about Rinna and shading Kyle.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Talented Tenth

[Hiyo]

Quote

I also saw a of "I hate Rinna so I'm going to ignore, downplay or dismiss the possibility that Kathy said/did anything bad".

It's not a question of hating Rinna, it's a question of taking her fucked up previous behavior into account. Of which there have been many, many examples of.

[ZettaK]

I never had an issue with Kathy judging from what was shown before Aspen. 

Kathy is negotiating with Bravo in order to film in the new season according to Nicki Hilton. Filming for S12 started in October 2021. Does she care about family relationships? Not really. She knew before she joined the RH of BH that Kim's secrets were exposed since this is the purpose of reality shows, but she still did because she was going to play a supporting role (Kathy was a child actress, btw, like her sisters) as a friend. And yes, she is playing the role of the eccentric rich lady. She thought that she wouldn't have to expose her life, and create story lines as a friend, and like others before her believed she could control her narrative. But Aspen happened and she couldn't, although she tried, and still does. She was background filler as a friend, and I don't think the other HWs ever expected that this would happen in Aspen, but it did.

Additionally, why is Kyle (I'm not a fan) is attacked in this forum regarding the Aspen incidents when she was the one viciously targeted by Kathy, something that Kathy admitted herself? At least Kyle tried to deflect in order to help her sister by switching the subject to who leaked the story to the media. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by ZettaK

[ZettaK]

Rinna said in an IG story (screenshot below) that Crystal called the sprinter van, and that they were trying to get Kathy out of the Aspen Caribou club as fast as possible. And that Crystal didn't mention these details. 

The same from an online article:

Real Housewives of Beverly Hills’ Lisa Rinna Alleges Crystal Kung Minkoff Left Out Details of Her Involvement in Aspen Drama

https://www.usmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/cropped-us-logo.png?w=1200&quality=86&strip=all

Edited October 12, 2022 by ZettaK

[realityplease]

Talented Tenth admits, "During the season, no one said any specifics when it came to what Kathy said [in Aspen.]"  I agree - they didn't.

The "source" who supposedly raised non-specific racial/homophobic slurs made by Kathy at the Aspen club remains unidentified & the slurs unconfirmed.  Rinna said that Kathy told her that she [Kathy] would "take down" Kyle & her family, NBC, Bravo. (If Kathy told Rinna her reasons for this, Rinna never said.)  Kyle cried.  Kathy gave nonspecific apologies.  Kyle accepted the apology. THAT's really the extent of FACTS we know from watching the show.   

Nevertheless, under the guise of further facts & logic, a plethora of notions that were NEVER on the show itself, have cropped up.  But we can't judge social media tweets, retweets & fights. (Don't follow social media, don't want to.) Speculation as to who will be at Bravo-con (& theories as to why or why not) is irrelevant, as is allusion to a "report" that episodes weren't provided for reunion prep & an overbroad assertion that "all housewives and insiders say that Bravo doesn't like litigiousness." As they say, what has any of this got to do with the price of potatoes?"  These aren't "facts."  Just a flurry of theories, assertions, or speculation.  All the viewers have is Rinna's histrionics, Kyle's tears, Kathy's apologies.

I don't know what happened in Aspen.  Most of us don't.  But Rinna has a history of verbally castigating her cast-mates.  Reputations, health issues, the valid questioning of shady behavior - all fair game to her.  Kim, Yolanda, LVP, Denise, Sutton, Kathy have all felt Rinna's scrutiny & wrath as she confuses honesty with brutality and seeks attention but not respect.   Rinna's past behavior clearly influences some folks' "critical thinking." But given a lack of known facts - we're ALL just speculating here - so I don't see fit to question that. 

As for Kyle, she's under scrutiny because she needled Kathy quite A LOT in Aspen.  Slippers, the child's bunk bed, lack of closet space, Kathy's request for utensils, her carrying a sack instead of a purse. In addition, Kyle didn't help promote the tequila.  Kathy blew but Kyle ignored any role she played as the fire grew & played "innocent victim."  Kyle's the sister who smacks the other sister behind the parents' back, & when the sister cries, she's all concern, "Oh honey, did I hurt you???" Or when the sister slugs her in return, Kyle cries because, again, SHE'S the victim.