S01.E06: The Princess And The Queen

[Lady Whistleup]

Alicent's interactions with her children make sense considering she had her kids when she was so young, and she associates her children with all the miserable sex she's endured. She has little maternal instinct and views her children as weapons and not people. 

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

 before he murdered his own damn family because he took what Alicent said to its most extreme conclusion. 

- - -

I don't think Alicent knew what he was going to do either but she can't pretend that she doesn't know full well what he's capable of from here on out.

The writers surely knew that Becket was murdered after the king had said: "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?" That kind of hint (or look or silence) is a good way for a leader to refuse his responsibility. 

However, Alicent seems still too inexperienced, and perhaps also not yet tough enough, to these kind of action.

[cambridgeguy]

37 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Question: is that supposed to be the same Vhagar that used to belong to Aegon the Conquerer's sister? It was said to have gone missing in an earlier episode. 

Yes, which is why she’s so big.  It also means any potential dragon riders should try to claim her as soon as possible.

[Roseanna]

4 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Couple of things at play here. At the most basic level: guest rites. When you're invited to a meal at someone's house, you are granted guest rites, which allows for things like beefs to be squashed safely and civilly. It's an extremely serious transgression to violate it as either the host or the guest (Walder Frey is the most egregious example in the show). That's the very, very basic underlying sin. THen you add things like the Kingsgaurd issue: they're supposed to be the best knights in the land and their charge is the highest there can be. Bodily protection of the royals. Beating someone to death at a royal party would have had to come with a serious threat to the royal person, which isn't the case here, and can't plausibly be the case either, no one would believe "The Knight of Kisses" would really have plotted to murder the king. Or the fact that he's supposed to gaurd the king, and instead, punched the future king in the face in a violent outburst. Again he should have been arrested and disposed before he left that room, not been able to be found having a think out in the godswood. I just hate plot armor this obvious. 

Thank you!

So rules are basically same as in most cultures with weapons of the kind (sans dragons) irl.

[Lady S.]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Question: is that supposed to be the same Vhagar that used to belong to Aegon the Conquerer's sister? It was said to have gone missing in an earlier episode. 

Yes, hence why she's huger than all the other dragons. That was l'il Laena asking about her on her playdate with the king so I guess she just didn't rest until she found and claimed Vhagar. (I'm reminded of how The Crown skipped over Princess Anne's wedding and the time she escaped a kidnapping attempt because she's not an important enough royal.)

1 hour ago, DigitalCount said:

So last episode there was a junior maester who was trying to tell the Grand Maester "okay but what if we applied germ theory" and was just shouted down with "leeches, we have to use leeches." Was that the same guy who now appears to be the Grand Maester, and do we have him to thank for Viserys getting another decade?

Yes, same guy, the old maester must have died off himself, I suppose.

In that same meeting we learn that House Tully is already ruled by the heir because the lord is so old and feeble which mirrors Viserys just sitting there while Rhaenyra, his chosen heir, and Alicent, mother of his other heir, debate matters. (I wonder, did Viserys even grant Alicent a seat or did she just claim it one day after she took charge in that marriage?)

Speaking of Alicent's lack of warmth, I was amused by her aggressively supplying Viserys with a blanket and cushions, then just leaving him after he refused Lyonel's resignation as Viserys asks "aren't you going to help me?".

Edited September 26, 2022 by Lady S.

[Roseanna]

32 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Alicent's interactions with her children make sense considering she had her kids when she was so young, and she associates her children with all the miserable sex she's endured. She has little maternal instinct and views her children as weapons and not people. 

Often just the "miserable sex" meant just the opposite: children, or at least sons, were double important to a woman. But queens or noble ladies were *not* supposed to be "maternal". 

Most of all, people weren't individuals as we are now, they were a part of family. They had no other protection in the dangerous world than their family and therefore they owed to do their duty to their family. 

[paigow]

4 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

Yes, same guy, the old maester must have died off himself, I suppose.

• Young Maester hired Larys to kill Old Maester and stage the crime scene as a lab accident
• Dick Wolf bought the Maester backstory rights, so we must wait for episodes of  Westeros Med 

12 hours ago, DigitalCount said:

Wait a second, Laenor and Qarl?

...is that a Simpsons reference

Or the dude is from Qarth??

[Uncle JUICE]

15 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Thank you!

So rules are basically same as in most cultures with weapons of the kind (sans dragons) irl.

Any time...that guest rite thing is like one of the oldest and most sacred laws / traditions in Westeros, it's the only way to end conflict short of total destruction of your opponent. Your enemy has to be able to trust that if you're invited to a parlay, you're not lying in wait to ambush them. It's why Cat Stark asked for some snacks as soon as she and Rob walked into Frey's stronghold. 

[Roseanna]

13 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

(I do not believe in this universe they have the drugs or medical tools to safely dilate the cervix enough to get a full term sized fetus out without harming the mother)

I would have liked if there had been in this universe a possibility to save the mother by cutting the child in the womb into pieces, like a (dead) calf is sometimes done. That would be a real choice for Viserus and Daemon!

Edited September 27, 2022 by Roseanna
added a word

[Lady S.]

A lopt of other stuff happened in this ep but we finally have proof that Daemon can complete sex and impregnate a woman. More than once even, so proud of him! (I joke, but I don't think we were meant to think he went limp every time.)

Disappointed they decided to cut a shot of him hugging his daughters after their mother's death, which can be seen in one of the BtS vids on HBOMAX.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Alicent's interactions with her children make sense considering she had her kids when she was so young, and she associates her children with all the miserable sex she's endured. She has little maternal instinct and views her children as weapons and not people. 

I didnt see Alicent as not caring about her kids. 

When we saw her with her daughter she was going over the lesson about the insects, and then with her younger son, she was eager to defend him after the incident with the pig. But she knows her kids and knows that Aegon likely planned the entire thing and went to confront him about it 1. your little brother may annoy you, but he's your brother cut it out, 2. his younger nephews may idolize him and take the heat for his pranks now, but be aware of the power imbalance between you and how it grows each day.

[Raachel2008]

1 hour ago, DigitalCount said:

So last episode there was a junior maester who was trying to tell the Grand Maester "okay but what if we applied germ theory" and was just shouted down with "leeches, we have to use leeches." Was that the same guy who now appears to be the Grand Maester, and do we have him to thank for Viserys getting another decade?

Yes, and this is the kind of transition/stuff that should have been shown on screen. Looks small but adds so much to the feel of the show, IMO.

[paigow]

48 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

Speaking of Alicent's lack of warmth, I was amused by her aggressively supplying Viserys with a blanket and cushions, then just leaving him after he refused Lyonel's resignation as Viserys asks "aren't you going to help me?".

Her lack of vision was surprising... instead of antagonizing old Lyonel, send him outside, convince Viserys to accept the resignation for some other reason, then bring him back in...

[Constantinople]

Rhaenyra (to Alicent): My son Jacaerys will inherit the Iron Throne after me. I propose we betroth him to your daughter, Helaena.

And what happened the last time a Targaryen blonde aunt hooked up with her brown haired nephew?

It's almost as if Rhaenyra never watched Game of Thrones.

[absnow54]

3 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

And what happened the last time a Targaryen blonde aunt hooked up with her brown haired nephew?

Although, in this case, Jon Snow was a true born heir who thought he was a bastard, while Jace is a bastard who thought he was a true born heir (until the end of this episode, at least.)

[MrWhyt]

2 hours ago, Enigma X said:

Which is why I side eye some of his world building.

once you have a world where magic exists you can do alot of things under the guise of "a wizard did it"

[PurpleTentacle]

8 hours ago, magdalene said:

Like the quacks did for Queen Aemma?  Obviously the procedure means butchering the woman while she is aware and awake.  I found it highly ironic that Daemon didn't want to put his wife through it while his "good" brother the king chose to have his wife murdered without any qualms.  Choosing the unborn over the woman is a vile thing to do IMO.  Such a patriarchy thing which gives the woman no control over her own body and fate.  I am glad Leana went out on her own terms as terrible as it was.

They had pumped a bunch of opium into her. So she was like half awake and aware. They couldn't use more since it would have killed the baby.

Women are awake and aware during cesareans these days too. Of course now local anesthetic is better and the procedure is usually survived.

7 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yeah- I wonder if Laenor has TRIED to conceive a child with Rhaenyra, (which is what they agreed to). It is a possibility that he tried once or twice and gave up,or he’s not very fertile.

They can't have tried very much, before Rhaenyra jumped on Strong-dick. The oldest son looks like 9 and it has been only 10 years since their wedding.

5 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

It's unfathomable, the guy in the KINGSgaurd punched the KING consort in the face!

No king consort was punched in the face Laenor will be the prince consort of the queen (if they are going by british tradition, which GoT is modeled on). Also the consort-thing wasn't exactly official.

It's still ridiculous that he is still walking around the castle let alone in his job.

5 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yeah, Laenor may be sterile (or have decreased fertility). Rhaenyra may have conceived eventually if they were a love match having sex on a regular basis, but it could be they tried for a number of months and she didn't conceive so they both said "fuck it".

Doesn't seem like they tried for very long though.

5 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

In a 21st century heteronormative example, you know a guy who  keeps a female friend around for his emotional needs, and may hookup with her, but never promises her anything and eventually finds a woman he likes and then doesnt have that much time for his friend any more.

That guy must be really good looking or really rich because I've only ever seen that the other way around.

[Scarlett45]

4 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

That guy must be really good looking or really rich because I've only ever seen that the other way around.

The guy is often good looking, but the girl often has low self esteem (for whatever reason- she may not think she is attractive, or assumes that she meets a guy's need for partnered sex he will meet her emotional needs. There is also come common interests etc there). Trust I saw a few female friends go through this in their late teens/early 20s HARD.

4 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Doesn't seem like they tried for very long though.

No I don't think they did. And they likely should tried harder. Producing an heir and a spare was a part of the marriage pact, and something tells me they BOTH will face consequences now that its an open secret the Princess has THREE CHILDREN by her lover.

[Dac22]

3 hours ago, Affogato said:

Really? Jaime had his issues, but he never seemed small minded and bitter and easily lead.

I don't want to go too deep into specifics since I'm not sure what the policy is for spoiling the ASOIAF books is here,

Spoiler

but Jaime does become very bitter towards Cersei, he (indirectly?) blames her for some of his actions, and would have done almost anything to make her happy in the beginning. 

This basically describes Criston's relationships with Rhaenyra (the first two things) and Alicent (the last part) in this episode. 

Then there are things like how both are obsessed with the concept of honor, both really struggled after losing theirs for admittedly different reasons, and then had to figure out what the concept of honor actually means to them.

As of yet, Criston hasn't shown any real desire for power as he's seemingly driven by loyalty towards Alicent and her family which would be like how Jaime was driven by the loyalty towards his own family rather than a lust for power. 

I'm almost positive Criston's story will take a different path, but I think there are a number of similarities between them. Then again, maybe I'm wrong.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Dac22

[Sakura12]

I was wondering how old Jace was, because you'd think Criston might think the boy is his. 

[sugarbaker design]

16 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

No king consort was punched in the face Laenor will be the prince consort of the queen (if they are going by british tradition, which GoT is modeled on). Also the consort-thing wasn't exactly official.

They aren't going by total British tradition.  It's been said in a previous episode (4 or 5?) that Laenor will be known as the king consort.

[paigow]

12 minutes ago, Dac22 said:

Then there are things like how both are obsessed with the concept of honor, both really struggled after losing theirs for admittedly different reasons, and then had to figure out what the concept of honor actually means to them.

Ned survived their duel because the combat was no longer honourable due to minion interference. Bizarrely, pushing a boy off a tower is NOT an honour code violation

Edited September 26, 2022 by paigow

[Lady Whistleup]

I think Rhae and Laenor's marriage just fell into that lavender marriage arrangement right away. They seem to like each other well enough as friends and get along. But I guess she does her thing, and he does his thing.

[nikma]

3 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

You are assuming we know this story. I am coming into this cold other than GOT knowledge. All we know is what is on screen and it feels terribly rushed like the worst seasons of GOT when things just kept happening with no connective tissue.

Oh they ARE rushing and even more than GoT but the reason why they are rushing it is because they started too early 

First 5 episodes wasted time. That could've been covered differently.

[Avabelle]

Alicent is the absolute worst. She makes me appreciate Cersei because at least Cersei seemed to own being a power hungry bitch whereas Alicent is all waaaah everyone is mean to me and now I’m mean.

Her evil origin story is just that she’s incredibly jealous of Rhaenyra in every aspect and this hatred is what drives all her actions. This background to me is already weak because I don’t think Rhaenyra did anything all that bad to Alicent. Her dad wasn’t an honourable hand and he wanted Rhaenyra out of the way as heir so I don’t blame her for pushing Vicerys to get rid of him. Alicent Should know this as well given he whored her out for the thrown so her motives seem to be purely just greed, motive and spite. 

Also, she Has sweet fuck all maternal instinct so don’t even try to convince me she’s doing it out of love for her children. They’re purely assets to her. 
 

And the last scene where she’s all stricken and I didn’t mean for this to happen.. what exactly was she hoping for?

Edited September 26, 2022 by Avabelle

[paigow]

Daemon could become the most expensive mercenary / kingmaker in the world or throw it away on a civil war for a crown and trying to marry his niece again? What would be the smart play? What would Daemon do?

[mledawn]

1 hour ago, Avabelle said:

Alicent is the absolute worst. She makes me appreciate Cersei because at least Cersei seemed to own being a power hungry bitch whereas Alicent is all waaaah everyone is mean to me and now I’m mean.

...

And the last scene where she’s all stricken and I didn’t mean for this to happen.. what exactly was she hoping for?

This. Alicent is such a caricature, it's frustrating to watch.

Add me to the list of folks thinking this time jump was too much. It's almost like we've started over at the beginning.

[Broderbits]

19 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

He hates Rheanyra now because he broke his honor for her and lost nothing.

He's still in love with her. The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.

I vote to push Queen Alicent down the stairs and kick her when she lands.

[PurpleTentacle]

2 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

They aren't going by total British tradition.  It's been said in a previous episode (4 or 5?) that Laenor will be known as the king consort.

I remember that and am going to ignore it for now until it actually happens, because as king he would be above the queen and that really can't be a thing if she is the ruler of the land. Seems like that was an error on the writers part that they hopefully corrected later.

[bluvelvet]

Yeah the genetics here seem to be dependent on the plot point, at least one of Alicent's children should have her coloring

I liked young Rhaenyra even though I thought she was impulsive but here she is a bit unlikeable.  When Laenor named the baby it was "don't name MY son" but when she realized the walls were closing in, it became "our sons" and I command you to stay.  Also WHAT WAS SHE THINKING, not having at least ONE Valeryon child, what she has done is treason.

Larys is a creep and Criston is bitter, pitting kids against each other is not cool

Loved the parts we saw with Laena, pity she died but she went out on her own terms. Poor Vhagar.  I am also going to assume Daemon is fire resistance since he flew through that cloud of fire.

[magdalene]

6 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

One thing I've wondered about....are Targaryen children fireproof in the womb? Did anyone bother to check to see if the baby survived being roasted?

i think Eleana knew the baby was dead in her womb and that with being unable to deliver the still born (a death sentence for her) contributed to her choice.

[LanceM]

12 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I remember that and am going to ignore it for now until it actually happens, because as king he would be above the queen and that really can't be a thing if she is the ruler of the land. Seems like that was an error on the writers part that they hopefully corrected later.

Actually Laenor was introduced as the”future king consort”.  Not sure what title he is using now until that happens. 

[Avabelle]

7 minutes ago, bluvelvet said:

When Laenor named the baby it was "don't name MY son" but when she realized the walls were closing in, it became "our sons" and I command you to stay. 

I thought her arsey reaction was more that he named the baby after his former lover. 

[Lady S.]

4 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

No king consort was punched in the face Laenor will be the prince consort of the queen

Not only did they use the term king-consort twice in the last ep, not only do they not have to follow UK practice when this is no way a British historical drama but a fantasy show full of made-up people in made-up kingdoms, but also that British tradition is fairly modern, dating back to Queen Anne, I think. In the Tudor era which saw the first British ruling queens, such matters were by no means settled, and Mary I wanted her husband to be King of England. (There are many reasons Elizabeth I never married but the uncertainty of power dynamics with a royal husband must have played a part.) The same goes here with no precendant of a ruling Queen, hence no precendant for her male consort. 

4 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

No I don't think they did. And they likely should tried harder. Producing an heir and a spare was a part of the marriage pact, and something tells me they BOTH will face consequences now that its an open secret the Princess has THREE CHILDREN by her lover.

3 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I think Rhae and Laenor's marriage just fell into that lavender marriage arrangement right away. They seem to like each other well enough as friends and get along. But I guess she does her thing, and he does his thing.

I do wonder if Laenor would have tried harder to do his marital duty if their wedding had gone off as planned without the murder of his boyfriend. That was not the arrangement they had counted on. He doesn't blame Rhaenyra for her sidepiece killing his but he is unhappy and resentful about how things turned out for them. He can drown his sorrows and fuck other men but it's not the same as his lost first love. A bit like Viserys never recovering from Aemma's death and growing ever more apathetic to duties he doesn't want, letting Alicent and Rhaenyra take charge, so Laenor was happy enough to let Harwin take his place, giving him sons with no effort on his part and keeping Rhaenyra happy, so Laenor had more free time for his own pleasure. And also a bit like Robert, who never got over his lost first love either and thought war was the best time of his life. Laenor is eager to abandon all his domestic duties to return to the Stepstones for another war as that was the last time he truly felt free and powerful, with the original Joffrey there at his side. (The resemblance ends there, of course. Not only was Robert fucking women all over during his war, while Laenor prefers fucking other knights, but he is shown as a more involved parent to his nominal children and he and Rhaenyra still have a happier and more affectionate marriage than either Robert/Cersei or Viserys/Alicent.)

Imagine how awkward that wedding night must have been after that quickie ceremony which Laenor cried through. I can easily see him consummating the marriage and maybe doing the deed a few more times then just giving up before any pregnancy so they could each "dine as they see fit". As a man, Rhaenyra can't really command him to get a boner as easily as Viserys could summon Alicent, but I don't think she'd want to either because she does care about him. What they're doing is reckless but it's weird to put all the blame on Rhaenyra. Alicent has her reasons but we know Laenor is at fault too. And I couldn't help but find it cute how Laenor ushered the older boys out to give Harwin/Rhaenyra alone time with the new baby and she later returned the favor by allowing him to bring his current boyfriend even after she lost hers.

3 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I was wondering how old Jace was, because you'd think Criston might think the boy is his. 

Criston's not the sharpest sword but I assume he knows how babies are made and can do some math, so he probably wouldn't treat Jace that way if he thought there was any real chance he could be the father. Last ep was the only one without a time jump at the start but I think there must have been one after the return from Driftmark, as those intended lavish week-long wedding celebrations should have taken some time to prepare. The other clue is Viserys saying his grandsons "are more children" than Aemond, implying they're both younger. We don't have an exact age difference between Aemond and Jace, but it has to be more than a few months for Alicent not to argue that claim, I'd think. And we never did see young Alicent visibly pregnant with Aemond, though she did her duty with Viserys the same night Rhaenyra lost her v-card, so if Rhaenyra conceived that night there's no way her firstborn could be younger than Alicent's third.

I liked that Alicent stopped walking when Criston dropped the C-bomb and waited until he apologized. Reminded me a bit of Daemon with Corlys. I can speak of my ex/rival as I wish, you may not. She was mine to love and mine to envy and mine to hate more than she was ever yours, oathbreaker. Seriously, who the fuck do you think you are, guy who is only alive because of me? Don't forget your place again, Cris. 

And while I don't think Alicent has no feelings for her children, (listening to bug girl's ramblings was her trying to connect! and trying to connect with the daughter who resembles young Rhaenyra, hmmm), it's interesting that Rhaenyra, after all her complaints about marriage and childbirth, is the one shown really connecting to her children. Smiling as soon as Joffrey was born and comforting her elder two on Harwin's departure. Almost as if being miserable as a wife and daughter can have negative effects and actually being loved well can help someone express love to their kids.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Lady S.

[Lady Whistleup]

I agree Alicent's motives in the time jump seem weird. When she was a teen she was still a somewhat principled, decent person. People don't change THAT much during 10 years.  And if something awful caused her to change into someone so bitter, angry and spiteful, then we needed an episode between the time jumps.

Maybe all that sex with someone whose arm rotted off caused her to lose it mentally.

[Lassus]

1 hour ago, mledawn said:

This. Alicent is such a caricature, it's frustrating to watch.

Accurate.  Part of my overall issue with the show, and not just her character.

[Raachel2008]

3 hours ago, Lady S. said:

Imagine how awkward that wedding night must have been after those quickie vows which Laenor cried through. I can easily see him consummating the marriage and maybe doing the deed a few more times then just giving up before any pregnancy so they could each "dine as they see fit". As a man, Rhaenyra can't really command him to get a boner as easily as Viserys could summon Alicent, but I don't think she'd want to either because she does care about him. What they're doing is reckless but it's weird to put all the blame on Rhaenyra. Alicent has her reasons but we know Laenor is at fault too. And I couldn't help but find it cute how Laenor ushered the older boys out to give Harwin/Rhaenyra alone time with the new baby and she later returned the favor by allowing him to bring his current boyfriend even after she lost hers.

Which beg the questio: where were Corlys and Rhaenys? That marriage is extremely important to them, there is no way that they would not be next to that bed making sure Laenor did his duty and gave Rhaenerys the white haired baby they all needed.

The problem with the time jump, as it was done, is that we don't see who are the allies, it looks like there are no one on Rhaenyra's corner other than Viserys but that can't be. She is married to the son of the richest guy in the realm, Corlys and Rhaenys have weight. Alicent's alies cannot be only these fuckers Criston and Larys.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Raachel2008

[paigow]

1 minute ago, Raachel2008 said:

Which beg the questio: where were Corlys and Rhaenys?

Corlys might already be dead... Laenor is flaunting his gayness... something Corlys would never be OK with...  

[Jack Shaftoe]

Ah, yes, plot convenient genetics, a long time favourite in Westeros. Remember when all recorded children of Baratheon and Lannister marriages were somehow dark-haired, yet only a handful of people thought it odd that Cersei's three kids were all blond? This time it took ten years and a rather implausible training field outburst but people actually noticed this kind of stuff. It helped that all other Targaryens born in that last ten years seem to have white hair, convenient, wasn't it?

Alicent, my dear, in 10 years, you could have easily caught Rhaenyra and her boy toy in flagrante a million times and then you wouldn't have had to relied on convenient genetics for your accusations. This episode even had servants and other attendants showing up in more scenes than usual.

This episode was better than the previous one and I do like the new actress for Rhaenyra but the time skips and the desire to end every episode with a bang lead to many forced and/or rushed developments. Why the is the commander of the City Watch such a prestigious position anyway and why does he spend all his time in the king's castle?

Alicent ordering the baby to be presented to her pronto was kind of silly, considering Viserys has the willpower of a wet noodle and all Rhaenyra needed to do to countermand the order was to send someone to ask for that. Many of the intrigues in this show are so petty and silly that I keep wondering if they are supposed to be like that in order to show that many of the protagonists are frankly not that bright, or the writers just can't come up with anything better. I suspect it's the latter since Rhaenyra still doesn't seem to have gathered (or even tried to gather) any supporters for her bid for the throne except for her husband and (dearly departed) boy toy who kind of have to support her by default. Then again, Alicent seems to have only her father, Littlefinger Larys and the Knight Who Says Cunt Criston in her "faction".

Oh, good, I guess we are in for a second war for the Stepstones. And building fortification is "too expensive" according to Alicent. Maybe they should appoint someone to rule over these islands in Viserys' name and build stuff at his own expense? Is Daemon still in technically in charge there now that he is in exile? In this show the world barely exists outside the king's castle, Daemon is a dick but at least his misadventures allow us to have some glimpses of the wider world.

[paigow]

16 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Oh, good, I guess we are in for a second war for the Stepstones. Is Daemon still in technically in charge there now that he is in exile? 

Laenor will take over... odds are he dies and bachelor Daemon replaces him in all possible ways...

[ShannaB]

My heart broke for Vhagar. I think that the bond between dragons and their riders is extremely strong and Vhagar knew Laena was in a hopeless situation.  I also think that Vhagar will accept Laena's dragonless daughter as her new rider.  Laenor told her daughter that she didn't bond with her dragon until she was 15, so there is hope.  Give  these two a bond!!

[Scarlett45]

23 minutes ago, ShannaB said:

My heart broke for Vhagar. I think that the bond between dragons and their riders is extremely strong and Vhagar knew Laena was in a hopeless situation.  I also think that Vhagar will accept Laena's dragonless daughter as her new rider.  Laenor told her daughter that she didn't bond with her dragon until she was 15, so there is hope.  Give  these two a bond!!

I would love if that happened. 

[The Kings Foot]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

And how did Daemon manage to father three children when he had been portrayed as impotent up until now?

My personal theory is that he isnt impotent, he just doesnt like aggressive sex. I suspect he's a bit of a fraud in that his brash , warrior , player  persona isnt really who he is. 

[gingerella]

6 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Rhaenyra (to Alicent): My son Jacaerys will inherit the Iron Throne after me. I propose we betroth him to your daughter, Helaena.

And what happened the last time a Targaryen blonde aunt hooked up with her brown haired nephew?

It's almost as if Rhaenyra never watched Game of Thrones.

She probably didn't have HBO...

[ZeeEnnui]

14 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

This is the first episode I've seen live after binging to get here. While it did an adequate job of all the table setting necessary for the war we all know at this point is brewing and the new actors did fine enough work with re-establishing the characters after the big time skip, this still felt a lot like later seasons GOT where a lot of the connective tissue to make any of it truly resonate was missing.  No, I don't need two seasons of Rhaenyra and Harwin: The Romance, but it would have been helpful to get at least a scene or two of them together to evoke any feeling about his death beyond well, there's a loose end tied up. Was it an actual romance? Just sex to fill a void? It's bad when you're left thinking that at least Cersei could tell herself she was doing it for "love" or spite or something in making all the direct heirs to the throne bastards. Maybe it wouldn't have made any difference if the kids were legitimate since Alicent is determined to take her bitterness out on everybody but it still feels like in both cases, each woman might have saved a whole lot of suffering and grief to a whole lot of people if they'd managed to get even just one legitimate heir by their respective husbands.  But we're also given little to go on here beyond Laenor apparently being just fine with being the father in name only as long as he could have all the pretty boys he wanted on the side. Whatever happened to their agreement to do their duty and then do their own thing?

I also wish we'd gotten to know Laena before that fiery end. She obviously had some juice that she could ride that dragon as she did and hold Daemon to what seems to have been a reasonably successful marriage for a decade. I mean, from what he says and what we're shown we can reason that he was trying to build some kind of life for himself away from all the power playing at court and she was a big part of that. But with all the attendants and people wringing their hands over the unsuccessful birth, she was apparently able to hobble alone outside to the dragon and that was that.

And we don't even get a conversation about the pet Kingsguard the queen apparently decided to keep around despite murdering a member of the Velaryon court in front of everyone at a highly public royal wedding? No one ever had any feelings or pushback about that?

I don't need my characters to be "good" people but I need at least enough nuance or shading to be able to understand why they are the way they are and want to see where they go. There just isn't a whole lot of anything here beyond waiting for Viserys to die so they can fight over that miserable chair that appears to be rotting him off a piece at a time. 

I agree with all of this. It felt like we skipped an episode this week. There was a lot of plot and character development left out, so we could watch Aegon stroke is little dragon over the city (steer clear of the window below, or be sure to wear a hat!) What's the rush, HOTD? 

Rhaenyra certainly has a type. Honestly Laenor couldn't keep the charade up in his pants long enough to have one legit kid to at least keep the gossip target off their backs?

Damn, another of Matt Daemon's awesome brides bites the dust (or catches fire in this case) again. I guess we know it's not that Daemon doesn't like strong woman, he just can't get it up if his wife doesn't share his DNA. At least, this marriage looked like it was fairly affectionate.

How can anyone top Littlefinger's OTT mustache-twirling villain? Larys...hold my mead.

[Raachel2008]

2 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Ah, yes, plot convenient genetics, a long time favourite in Westeros. Remember when all recorded children of Baratheon and Lannister marriages were somehow dark-haired, yet only a handful of people thought it odd that Cersei's three kids were all blond? This time it took ten years and a rather implausible training field outburst but people actually noticed this kind of stuff. It helped that all other Targaryens born in that last ten years seem to have white hair, convenient, wasn't it?

Agreed on the plot convenient genetics, but  in Robert/Cersei's case it wasn't exactly that.  It was the fact that that "all" the Baraethon's had dark hair AND all Robert's 16 bastards had dark hair. IMO, had not been for the bastards, Ned would not (in the show) really went for that, because the Lannisters were "all" blondes and gave birht to blond kids. And of course none of them knew about recessive genes or what. Ned and Catelyn themselves had three kids of five kids with very dark hair which neither had.

I personally think it is all very very dumb. It is a story with fucking dragons and wargs and witches and glorified zombies. 

[Lady Whistleup]

3 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

Ned and Catelyn themselves had three kids of five kids with very dark hair which neither had.

I personally think it is all very very dumb. It is a story with fucking dragons and wargs and witches and glorified zombies. 

Wait I thought Ned had dark hair, Catelyn had red hair, and Arya and Bran had the red hair while Sansa and Robb had the red hair. At least that genetics sort of works as the kids are a mix of mom and dad.

[Raachel2008]

9 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Wait I thought Ned had dark hair, Catelyn had red hair, and Arya and Bran had the red hair while Sansa and Robb had the red hair. At least that genetics sort of works as the kids are a mix of mom and dad.

[paigow]

3 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Wait I thought Ned had dark hair, Catelyn had red hair, and Arya and Bran had the red hair while Sansa and Robb had the red hair. At least that genetics sort of works as the kids are a mix of mom and dad.

Sean Bean: Boromir

Sean Bean: Ned

 Maybe Ned was less of a narcissist than Boromir and just had really dirty hair... but flashback Ned was more blonde than old Ned...

[Lady Whistleup]

6 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

He definitely has dark hair in video clips: