S06.E09: The Hill

[Rootbeer]

5 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

There is an argument to be made for the lower-earning spouse to work even if their salary just covers child care. The longer you are out of the work force, the harder it is to get back in, and the lower your lifetime earnings are. Kate's already behind the curve there as it is. If you work for a few years just to cover child care so you can work, you will develop/retain skills that will likely lead to raises and/or higher-paying job opportunities. In the long run you're better off. Not everyone is comfortable being totally reliant on their spouse's job.

But again, that's something they should be discussing as a couple.

Of course.  I also believe that if a person wants to work, they should.  But, as depicted on the show, Kate is not going to be able to get a job that actually supplements their income, just one that covers childcare while she works.  That's fine, but it won't offset a paycut for Toby.

Also, there is no reason why Kate couldn't find a similar job in SF.  Why is it ok that she has just one job that is her dream and doesn't want to consider any other options while Toby is not allowed to keep the job he loves?

Edited March 25, 2022 by Rootbeer

[CdrJanny]

11 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Also, there is no reason why Kate couldn't find a similar job in SF.  Why is it ok that she has just one job that is her dream and doesn't want to consider any other options while Toby is not allowed to keep the job he loves?

Because she's a Pearson and Phillip Mean Jerk is a hottie.

[ams1001]

9 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

That's fine, but it won't offset a paycut for Toby.

I really want to know how much of a difference it was (not necessarily an actual number, because frankly that wouldn't tell me much since I don't know what their actual cost of living or what a reasonable salary would be, but something to give the audience some perspective at least). Was it "a joke" to Toby because it really wouldn't be enough to support them in LA or was it just an affront to his ego because it was less than SF was paying and he's finally one of the cool kids so he would rather uproot the whole family, despite agreeing to keep looking for something in LA, and of course not discuss it with his wife that he wasn't on board with that plan anymore? (Which, he's allowed to change his mind - being happy at work counts for a lot - but they don't communicate!)

[Empress1]

33 minutes ago, himela said:

But Rebecca AND Miguel AND/OR a nanny?

Miguel isn’t going to have the bandwidth to care for Rebecca and two very young children - really, nobody will, that’s a huge ask. Rebecca is only going to get worse, to need more and more care as time goes on.

A nanny, sure - they could do a nanny share with Kevin, actually. I know a few families that do that to offset the cost.

[GeorgiaRai]

I for one was not bothered that Toby didn't tell Kate about the LA job offer.  Kate focused on the salary, but there were a lot of things to consider:  Did he sign a contract with his new employer?  Was it time for a review/raise? Had the company paid/advanced moving expenses? Had he signed a lease for his apartment?  Were benefits comparable? Was there a waiting period for insurance coverage? )  Toby would've considered all aspects and known that financially and career-wise, it made no sense to jeopardize what appears to be a really great job that lets him provide for and plan for his family - so why spend his limited amount of family time discussing a useless offer?  (And did he say he just heard from them 2 weeks before?)

Regarding grandparents, it's one thing to ask them to move in with you and help you care for your children.  It's another thing altogether to ask them to do that at their own expense, and to continue to provide for themselves and you and your kids ... in their retirement years! In my experience, grandparents help with occasional babysitting, transportation & sometimes daycare, but the expectation to move in and supplement a parents' income seems... unusual.  And probably impossible financially for most seniors.  

[Ohiopirate02]

18 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I really want to know how much of a difference it was (not necessarily an actual number, because frankly that wouldn't tell me much since I don't know what their actual cost of living or what a reasonable salary would be, but something to give the audience some perspective at least). Was it "a joke" to Toby because it really wouldn't be enough to support them in LA or was it just an affront to his ego because it was less than SF was paying and he's finally one of the cool kids so he would rather uproot the whole family, despite agreeing to keep looking for something in LA, and of course not discuss it with his wife that he wasn't on board with that plan anymore? (Which, he's allowed to change his mind - being happy at work counts for a lot - but they don't communicate!)

One thing that bothers me about Toby here--it's great that he is finally happy working a job he loves, but where does Kate fit into his new life?  His whole attitude in this episode is "I'm happy and you need to be happy for me."  He is not approaching anything in a way that would make Kate happy.  I know there are people on these boards insist that Kate is incapable of being happy, she's a killjoy, she's jealous of his weight loss, etc.  But, Toby is creating a plan that places him front and center expecting Kate to get in line.  

I will admit that this sounds a lot like someone else on this show--Jack.  Kate was drawn to Toby because he is like her father, but as she has grown, she is starting to realize how hard it must have been for Rebecca in that situation.  Kate is learning that a husband like her father may not be as good as what she remembered.

[Katie111]

I wonder if Tony was a doctor that was on call, would we even be having these discussions?  But because he is in IT, he’s not supposed to not work outside of 9-5,  M-F?   And he’s not supposed to be self-fulfilled in his career.  He must have a good eduction and an advanced degree to have the high paying position that he has.  He’s worked for this all his life, while Kate moped around a diner and worked for her brother.  So yes, I do think that his job trumps hers at this point.   
 

I also don’t think her salary could in any way bridge the gap between the LA job and the SF job.  He must be making well over a million to get approved for that house.  So the LA job probably paid six figures or more less.  She at most would make $35k a year at that job. 
 

I watch a lot of Flip or Flop and their house in LA must be worth well over a million as well. 

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

I really want to know how much of a difference it was (not necessarily an actual number, because frankly that wouldn't tell me much since I don't know what their actual cost of living or what a reasonable salary would be, but something to give the audience some perspective at least). Was it "a joke" to Toby because it really wouldn't be enough to support them in LA or was it just an affront to his ego because it was less than SF was paying and he's finally one of the cool kids so he would rather uproot the whole family, despite agreeing to keep looking for something in LA, and of course not discuss it with his wife that he wasn't on board with that plan anymore? (Which, he's allowed to change his mind - being happy at work counts for a lot - but they don't communicate!)

I think one major reason why Toby was reluctant to state the numbers is because tech comp is not that easy to quantify. There is a base salary that is a fixed amount, but also bonuses that are variable based on the employee's and/or the company's performance. But the part that many tech people find to be the most important is the equity. Since it seems like the SF company where Toby is working is a startup, his equity compensation would be in the form of employee stock options, which are presently worthless, but would yield a huge profit if/when the company has a successful exit (i.e. acquisition or public offering). And Toby made it a point to tell Kate that his boss had sold his previous company to Google, so Toby has good reason to believe that his current company will be a similar success.

I'm willing to bet that the base salary for the LA job was not much lower than for the SF job (base salaries for the same jobs in the same industries tend to converge to the market rate, since an employer who offers much lower salaries will not be able to attract talent), but the equity compensation had much less upside potential (at least in Toby's mind). And he knew that if he'd told Kate what the base salary was, she would cut him off right then and there, and not be interested in discussing the long-term potential of the SF job.

Edited March 25, 2022 by chocolatine

[Rootbeer]

53 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

One thing that bothers me about Toby here--it's great that he is finally happy working a job he loves, but where does Kate fit into his new life?  His whole attitude in this episode is "I'm happy and you need to be happy for me.".

And isn't it the same for Kate?  He is supposed to accommodate her life, there is no compromise she's willing to make, either.  She likes her minimum wage job and won't consider leaving it.  She says she wants to be near her mother, but we know her mother is moving thousands of miles away in the near future.  She says she doesn't want her son to have to adapt to new circumstances, but she is planning to work full time and place him in day care which will certainly be a big change and doesn't seem concerned about that.

Kate's attitude isn't so much that she's happy, but that she isn't happy and it is up to him to try to make her happy.  That never works.  She seems to expect him to be like her father, always willing to do things her way, to make sure she gets what she wants.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Rootbeer

[qtpye]

4 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Toby - “Babe. This job is so much more than I thought. I’m making several hundred thousand dollars a year, they are giving me stock options, we can afford a multi million dollar home in San Francisco. The house even has room for your mom and Miguel. We can afford to get Jack the best education and assistance available. I am actually happy for the first time in a long time!”

Kate - “Babe. Why can’t you be the fat, suicidal, loser who acts like a clown that I fell in love with. And why are you allowed to be happy. BTW I’m happy now.”

And this is the person that PMJ will fall in love with? The guy who dumped super models because they bored him? I wonder which episode he hits his head in?

But unlike those supermodels, Kate is fascinating and interesting. He will never bore of her Netflix and chill, not to mention endless stories of St. Jack. Phillip Mean Jerk will only want to give her the life that Jack told her she deserves.

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Why in the world should Kevin be supporting his married sister?  I have two older brothers, both millionaires, one was an IBM manager and one did a job like Toby's in San Francisco for years.  He once mentioned his bonus for working on New Year's Eve and it was more than my annual salary.  It never occurred to me to ask either of them for money even when I was divorced living on minimum wage.  As for asking Rebecca and Miguel to add caring for two toddlers to dealing with Alzheimer's, I find that outrageous.  They have enough on their plate. Why should they raise Kate's children for her?

That is because you have healthy boundaries with your brothers.

Kevin is so thirsty to be needed and loved that he will jump at the chance to provide Kate and her kids with every luxury. He will love that her kids and his twins might grow up under the same roof when he has them in his care.

Kevin one said something to the effect that as twins, he and Kate were so codependent that eventually, everyone will think of them as a married couple. I don’t remember his exact words but he said this during the first season.

Does anyone know the real address in SF of the house that Toby wanted to buy? My brother lived in SF and I know a very basic home in that area can go for millions.

I know I am a weirdo for asking.

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by qtpye

[Empress1]

19 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

She says she doesn't want her son to have to adapt to new circumstances, but she is planning to work full time and place him in day care which will certainly be a big change and doesn't seem concerned about that.

It’s also not realistic that Jack will never have to adapt to new circumstances even if they live in that house his whole life. He’s going to go to friend’s houses, he’s going to visit family (he already has!), he’s going to leave home, at some point they’re going to need to send him on errands so he can develop independence, he’s going to do activities (at some point he picks up music seriously, we know). Everybody has to adjust to new situations.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Empress1

[CdrJanny]

4 minutes ago, qtpye said:

But unlike those super models Kate is fascinating and interesting. He will never bore of her Netflix and chill, not to mention endless stories of St. Jack. Phillip Mean Jerk will only want to give her the life that Jack told her she deserves.

Because she's a Pearson, by God!  She's the bestest at everything!

[LexieLily]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

A nanny, sure - they could do a nanny share with Kevin, actually. I know a few families that do that to offset the cost.

I could've sworn that Kevin offered a nanny share once or something similar, and Toby turned it down? That might have been before the SF job, though. Kate/Toby/Kevin/Madison were having dinner at Madison's. They had sushi.

[Katie111]

36 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

I could've sworn that Kevin offered a nanny share once or something similar, and Toby turned it down? That might have been before the SF job, though. Kate/Toby/Kevin/Madison were having dinner at Madison's. They had sushi.

I would think just taking care of Jack and his sister would be plenty for one nanny.  I think adding the twins in the mix would be a lot, esp with Jack’s special needs.  If Madison has a hard time with the twins on her own and Kate has a hard time with her two, why would a nanny be able to handle all four at once?  

[Crs97]

1 hour ago, LexieLily said:

I could've sworn that Kevin offered a nanny share once or something similar, and Toby turned it down? That might have been before the SF job, though. Kate/Toby/Kevin/Madison were having dinner at Madison's. They had sushi.

That is when Toby was still unemployed.  He had just had the terrific interview and then got the text that they were going in another direction.

I know Kate graduated.  Does anyone remember her degree?

[mansonlamps]

4 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

I realize that Kate has an ace in the hole, a wealthy brother who indulges her every whim; but is that really the example she wants for her children? 

Kevin has his own children now, so no doubt his spending and saving priorities will change.  Plus we know he gets married at some point, no guarantee the new wife will be on board with her husband supporting his sister and her kids, especially if they have additional children.  

4 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

Do we know for sure that Kate is qualified to take her place?  We have no idea what position she held, let alone whether Kate has a realistic chance to replace her. What we do know is that Kate has no specific qualifications to teach, which means the job she is trying to get doesn't pay any better than the one she has and that working more hours won't solve anything as she doesn't make enough to support herself, let alone the kids.  She would barely make enough to cover child care.

Is the Pope Catholic?  She's a Pearson, of course she's qualified!

[ams1001]

8 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I know Kate graduated.  Does anyone remember her degree?

lol...I looked at the TIU wiki earlier because I was wondering the same thing. All I saw about her college career was that she goes back to college and that she graduates. Unless I missed it, it doesn't say what she studied.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, LexieLily said:

I could've sworn that Kevin offered a nanny share once or something similar, and Toby turned it down? That might have been before the SF job, though. Kate/Toby/Kevin/Madison were having dinner at Madison's. They had sushi.

He wasn’t working then. Kevin didn’t know that yet (there was a whole thing where Toby thought Kevin knew and he or Kate said something about it and Kevin was like “You lost your job?”) but that dinner took place when he wasn’t working.

[izabella]

25 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

lol...I looked at the TIU wiki earlier because I was wondering the same thing. All I saw about her college career was that she goes back to college and that she graduates. Unless I missed it, it doesn't say what she studied.

Kate has a BS in Handwavium, I imagine.

Even that is a stretch.  How could she "go back" to college when she never went in the first place?  She somehow got a 4 year degree during the show?  No effing way.

Edited March 25, 2022 by izabella

[CdrJanny]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

lol...I looked at the TIU wiki earlier because I was wondering the same thing. All I saw about her college career was that she goes back to college and that she graduates. Unless I missed it, it doesn't say what she studied.

I believe she cobbled together enough credits over 20 years to earn an associates degree (2-year) from a community college.

Not that I'm disparaging community colleges.  The bulk of my accounting courses were done (free) at a community college before I earned my second bachelors degree from a 4-year college.  And my son took most of his gen ed courses at a community college before earning a bachelors degree from THE Ohio State Univerity because scheduling and accessibility to campus were a lot better at CSCC.

[ams1001]

34 minutes ago, izabella said:

Even that is a stretch.  How could she "go back" to college when she never went in the first place?  She somehow got a 4 year degree during the show?  No effing way.

She had gone at some point and dropped out with 8 credits left to go, then was miraculously able to transfer the credits she did have years later (in another state?) and finish her degree in, um, College-ing? I guess? She goes into labor with Jack shortly after her graduation party.

But according to that link she graduated from "Encino Community College" (google doesn't come up with a school by that specific name); most CCs don't offer bachelor's degrees (but google tells me some do these days), so I would assume she has an Associate's Degree.

[CdrJanny]

51 minutes ago, izabella said:

Kate has a BS in Handwavium, I imagine.

Even that is a stretch.  How could she "go back" to college when she never went in the first place?  She somehow got a 4 year degree during the show?  No effing way.

A BS in BS, maybe.  A degree exceptionally suited for the Pearson family.

[ams1001]

2 minutes ago, CdrJanny said:

I believe she cobbled together enough credits over 20 years to earn an associates degree (2-year) from a community college.

Not that I'm disparaging community colleges.  The bulk of my accounting courses were done (free) at a community college before I earned my second bachelors degree from a 4-year college.  And my son took most of his gen ed courses at a community college before earning a bachelors degree from THE Ohio State Univerity because scheduling and accessibility to campus were a lot better at CSCC.

lol...should have clicked the 'new comment' bar before submitting...

My brother went to CC and got his associate's before transferring to a four year school, where he went three years because of weirdness with transferring his credits. He had classes that they accepted, but they had prerequisites for those classes, so he ended up going an extra year because he had to take the prerequisites for classes he had already taken. 🙃 (Which worked out well for me, because part of my financial aid was a grant of $5600 a year, which was cut to $1300 once he graduated; so I only had to take out an extra loan for one year instead of two. He went to a State school, in-state; I went to a private school out-of-state, so his graduating didn't actually make all that much of a difference in my parents' finances.)

[peeayebee]

I'm mostly Team Toby, though I can see both sides.

One of my problems with their discussions/arguments -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- is that Toby seemed to acknowledge Kate's points while Kate never acknowledged Toby's. For instance, I really appreciated Toby's explanation for why he was how he was in the beginning. His playing the clown, going for the big yuks, loud Hawaiian shirts, etc., was to cover for his self-hatred. He worked to get out of that painful existence, and he's happy to be free of Old Toby. I don't think Kate gave any sign of sympathy for that explanation. She just missed fun, fat, goofy Toby.

And BTW, I think he's still fun. Actually, I couldn't stand the old Toby. He was my least favorite TIU character. But he has changed, and I'm glad for it. I'm surprised how much I like him now vs how much I hated him before.

I certainly agree that he should have told Kate about the LA job offer. I can understand why he didn't: Because he loved working in SF and with the people he was working with, and he didn't want to give Kate the opportunity to push him to take it. I understand, not approve.

The ultimatum he gave was also wrong, and I'm sure this was included in the story so Kate would come out as the better of the two. 

I wish their storyline could have been how they worked thru the serious problems in their marriage by learning how to compromise and change.  

[CrystalBlue]

How many people here thought that when Kate reached the top of The Hill and brought out her cellphone, she was calling Toby to tell him she made it to the top and that she was onboard with San Francisco after all?

How many of you were disappointed or surprised she called Philip Mean Jerk instead?

[Rootbeer]

2 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

How many people here thought that when Kate reached the top of The Hill and brought out her cellphone, she was calling Toby to tell him she made it to the top and that she was onboard with San Francisco after all?

How many of you were disappointed or surprised she called Philip Mean Jerk instead?

I think most of us saw the flash forward earlier this season and we also know there are a limited number of episodes left; so I expect most of us DIDN'T expect her to change her mind about moving to San Fran and aren't all that surprised that she's calling Philip and not her husband, either.

[Johnny Dollar]

Expecting Miguel to help cover the costs of Kate’s persistently poor life choices is a bit much, even though she is a Pearson. He has kids of his own, and presumably grandkids, who should come before subsidizing Kate’s existence. Not to mention the tremendous costs of Rebecca’s future care. None of that is covered by Medicare.

They are starting each of the three episodes with the same preamble of Rebecca imploring her kids not to let her illness affect the choices they make in life, and to take the big step if it presents itself.  In typical Kate fashion, her choice is to do nothing and wait for someone to take care of her. 

[pennben]

For the record, Kate has made no mention of relying on Miguel. She’s been charged with lots of crimes she hasn’t committed yet here. She’s not my one of my favorites, but I’m willing to see how it plays out before condemning her. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by pennben

[bros402]

On 3/23/2022 at 4:58 PM, CountryGirl said:

And if Toby had done any sort of real research, he would know the state assists with learning aids.

yeah, getting AT can be a pain. The district will provide whatever they have (probably 5 years old) or if they don't have anything, they will find a way to finagle out of paying for it. They might also pull a tactic I have heard of - they don't want to spend a gigantic pile of money on the student that varies in size, so they decide to spend a pile a money that they know will stay the same amount - aka pay for an out of district placement where the school for the blind would provide equipment (but Jack wouldn't have anything at home unless they let him take it home, but Toby and Kate would have to have a backup just in case)

[GeorgiaRai]

9 hours ago, pennben said:

For the record, Kate has made no mention of relying on Miguel. She’s been charged with lots of crimes she hasn’t committed yet here. She’s not my one of my favorites, but I’m willing to see how it plays out before condemning her. 

True, of course. I think we're all discussing what her plans/thought processes might be for a Toby-less future (since she doesn't yet know she'll become Mrs. Mean Jerk.)  Someone suggested having R&M move in with her, so chasing that rabbit immediately ensued (at least by me!)

[debraran]

8 minutes ago, GeorgiaRai said:

True, of course. I think we're all discussing what her plans/thought processes might be for a Toby-less future (since she doesn't yet know she'll become Mrs. Mean Jerk.)  Someone suggested having R&M move in with her, so chasing that rabbit immediately ensued (at least by me!)

I found it odd that Kate is always taken care of. She had Kevin give her a job, then Toby was the main bread winner, she always had lower paying work, now it will be Philip giving her a better job and then she'll have his money. Kevin is always her safety net, whether she uses hm or not, she knows he'd never let her fall. That's a nice thing but seeing her take care of herself, that we wont see. Toby will give her money in alimony and child support and more than if he was there I'm sure, making more money. He'll see the kids when they court says so unless they work that out. I just hate how we never see them try, never have counseling where someone not close, not family helps them see reality and then go on. This lack of communication in their family is so odd. Well maybe not odd, but I thought TIU might show healthier alternatives to what they are showing now.

[Crs97]

We have already seen Kevin and Randall in therapy; I would love to see Kate talking to someone professionally.  I think she’d fire anyone who didn’t support her victimhood, but would love to be proved wrong.

[Boo Boo]

The fact that Toby surrounds the job salary in secrecy is enough to scream:  "I love my life in SF."  If it was truly much lower, he would have told her. 

I also don't believe that Kate is just going to easily get another job.  There really is a thing such as fat discrimination and I would bet it is much harder for an obese woman to easily switch jobs.

I wouldn't be surprised if the next episode, Kate learns that Toby could telework his current job and this will end their relationship.

[debraran]

47 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

We have already seen Kevin and Randall in therapy; I would love to see Kate talking to someone professionally.  I think she’d fire anyone who didn’t support her victimhood, but would love to be proved wrong.

I think the reason they don't show Kate there is because they'd have to address so many things that are like the pink elephant in the room. With Randall it was about his hidden life and his anxiety and his fitting in with his family and Kevin "tried" to explore his feelings and was shut down by everyone...how dare he talk badly about his parents when expressing how he felt? How dare he make Jack not a saint. A dad who thinks his son should think about being a man in the pool at 7 or is ignored many times...don't express that or we will yell at you.  Kate...her weight is a big no no with scripts. If you address why you still eat so much no matter what faze of your life you are in, 20's, 30's and now 40's when you blamed it on being unhappy, you'd have to discuss the real reasons or make some up. It's very hard for parents to tell kids "do as I say, not as I do". Many kids I grew up with had parents tell their kids not to smoke, look at me, it's so hard, but some smoked just because their parents did. The only heavy children I played with had heavy parents who cooked them high calorie meals all the time. It was more rare back then. They even had  chips delivered. (Charles brand) We got one bag of Lays  a week. lol  A parent told my mom, how can I have them eat small when I don't? That's another issue/discussion but I feel counseling was ignored by the writers because they just don't know how to write it.

Edited March 26, 2022 by debraran

[Bliss]

The irony of Kate being so angry at Toby re the LA job, and then making the call to put her name in for the teaching position, without discussing it with Toby? Perfection.

Love this show; will miss it when it's gone!

[qtpye]

12 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Expecting Miguel to help cover the costs of Kate’s persistently poor life choices is a bit much, even though she is a Pearson. He has kids of his own, and presumably grandkids, who should come before subsidizing Kate’s existence. Not to mention the tremendous costs of Rebecca’s future care. None of that is covered by Medicare.

They are starting each of the three episodes with the same preamble of Rebecca imploring her kids not to let her illness affect the choices they make in life, and to take the big step if it presents itself.  In typical Kate fashion, her choice is to do nothing and wait for someone to take care of her. 

You guys worry too much.

Kate is a Pearson.

After a couple of months of working she will be promoted and be running the school for the blind. They will also quadruple her salary so she can easily afford her million dollar LA house and a nanny for her children. We will watch her doing this while she hikes up steep hills and turns down all sweets. Phillip Mean Jerk will turn down all super models and fall madly in love with her and be a secret millionaire.

In all seriousness, I think they can not address the weight because it will dangerously over step into the actress’s real life issues.

Edited March 26, 2022 by qtpye

[himela]

33 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I think they can not address the weight because it will dangerously over step into the actress’s real life issues.

I don't really understand that. Chrissy is an actress and she is obligated to do whatever is asked from her in the show. It's her job and she knows very well that she was cast in the show BECAUSE she is that obese. They didn't want just a chubby actress, they wanted someone as obese as Chrissy because they wanted to create drama around her and the storyline "it's always about the weight". After all, we have no idea of Chrissy's real life issues. What she shows about herself is that she has a succesful acting and singing career, she has had guys who loved her - love her, she is rich, she doesn't mind her weight.

[debraran]

I think because Chrissy said they'd support her losing weight or not, the "pink elephant" I meant is she didn't or they are hiding it. In therapy there would have to be "why?" questions that weren't addressed and that is being kind to Chrissy not doing it. There is always the question of why though. She can be happy very heavy but she wasn't for most of the show and blamed her eating on stress and being unhappy. I'm talking how they portrayed her on the show for 40 years.

 

In an interview from 2017 with Dan they did make it seem like she would lose which is why some fans think she is hiding it. But that was years ago. It did sound like he would have liked it, to show growth etc. but life is life as he said. You go with the flow.

Part of it said

While it was reported, and quickly shot down by Metz, that the 36-year-old Emmy nominee had stipulations in her contract about slimming down, there is not a target goal weight outlined in the agreement, according to THR. 

"Thus far, the plan we had for the character and what Chrissy's been doing have been working in tandem, with a talk once a year of, like, 'Hey, here's what we're thinking,'" Fogelman says. "So we have a general long-term plan that we've all talked about, and we will adjust the plan as needed. I mean, that's life, right?

https://www.wusa9.com/article/entertainment/entertainment-tonight/chrissy-metz-has-lost-weight-since-joining-this-is-us-but-theres-not-a-goal-weight-in-her/65-474449497

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by debraran

[GeorgiaRai]

5 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the next episode, Kate learns that Toby could telework his current job and this will end their relationship.

Man, I would hate that story line.  From a viewer standpoint, it already feels like they want us all to be "Team Kate" but throwing Toby under the bus is off-putting to me. So Kate is suddenly happier without him. I don't necessary buy it, but I can accept it and highly prefer it to turning Toby into a cartoonish villain.  They'll probably do a flash-forward of him with an evil grin, twirling a handlebar mustache.

[Boo Boo]

18 hours ago, GeorgiaRai said:

Man, I would hate that story line.  From a viewer standpoint, it already feels like they want us all to be "Team Kate" but throwing Toby under the bus is off-putting to me. So Kate is suddenly happier without him. I don't necessary buy it, but I can accept it and highly prefer it to turning Toby into a cartoonish villain.  They'll probably do a flash-forward of him with an evil grin, twirling a handlebar mustache.

Def have thrown Toby under the bus.  He went from big gesture guy to sneaky cross-fitter who turned into someone Kate doesn't relate to anymore.

I will say though -- I find some elements of this story to be more realistic than others.  I mean, two very overweight people find love, one gets healthier, the other doesn't.  That's enough to doom a relationship.  Add distance, two people that don't want to give up the jobs they love. Stress of children, especially a special needs child. 

And while people can telecommute, there are a lot of people that need the social element of being in an office.  Working from home is not for everyone.  So I could see this happening -- Kate finds out he could have worked from home this whole time, or was allowed to after working there for some period, but Toby wasn't wanting to.  And I think that would def break the marriage for good.  It would be hard to come back from, "you could've been here with me and the kids, but wanted to live a carefree single life away from us with your new job, new friends.."

 

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by Boo Boo

[CrystalBlue]

Toby did stay in big gesture character when he planned out a very full day of activities and appearances for Kate and him to enjoy together.  He was excited about Kate being in SF and wanted to show her around.  She takes it as my husband has this whole other life here, woe is me.

Let's face it, Toby can't win for losing with Kate.

Yes, Toby made mistakes but no one is perfect.

[Boo Boo]

4 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

Toby did stay in big gesture character when he planned out a very full day of activities and appearances for Kate and him to enjoy together.  He was excited about Kate being in SF and wanted to show her around.  She takes it as my husband has this whole other life here, woe is me.

Let's face it, Toby can't win for losing with Kate.

Yes, Toby made mistakes but no one is perfect.

True.  Although the big gesture shit is what I've hated about this show!  

[Rootbeer]

8 hours ago, GeorgiaRai said:

True, of course. I think we're all discussing what her plans/thought processes might be for a Toby-less future (since she doesn't yet know she'll become Mrs. Mean Jerk.)  Someone suggested having R&M move in with her, so chasing that rabbit immediately ensued (at least by me!)

This is true, but we've seen Kate's first move after perhaps realizing that her marriage is doomed is to try to get a full time position as a teacher's aide; which we the audience, at least, know is not going to pay enough to cover her expenses, let alone the extra child care she is going to need if she works full time.  That money has to come from somewhere, and given Kate's track record, it seems as though, once again, she is expecting someone else to pay the bills so she can do what she wants rather than what needs to be done.  Miguel is just one option, I think, since he's done it before and has the money; Kevin will be bankrolling her lifestyle so she can continue to dabble in her low paying 'career'.

I realize this show plays fast and loose with money issues, but Kate working as a teacher's aide to support herself, including paying the mortgage on a home in LA, no less, is not even close to believable.  We can pretend that Randall earned enough in bonuses while working in the stock market to be able to afford their lifestyle on a councilman's salary in Philly, including the large sum they must've lost on Beth's dance studio.  Kate has worked as a waitress and as a 'gopher' for her brother.  That's about it, except for the couple of episodes where she was someone else' assistant and when she failed miserably as a 'professional' singer.

We were told they used their savings while Toby was unemployed, and he's only been working a few months at his new job; they cannot possibly have enough assets for Kate to think she's going to come away with a large cash settlement in the divorce.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Rootbeer

[Pattycake2]

Excuses Kate gave to stay in LA were nonsense. Jack could learn a new house. Her mother could visit . Kate was afraid of making a change. Doesn’t she remember Toby laying in bed depressed out of his mind? Yes she loves her job, but she could look for an even better one.  And the ending where she climbed up the hill all on her own? To prove that she could finally take care of herself? I’m not buying it. She’s returning to her own happy little bubble surrounded by everyone and everything she knows.  To venture forth. To be willing to change. To build a new life in a strange city and create a home for her family, that is pushing yourself forward. That is showing that you have what it takes.  At the very least, she could’ve said let’s give this a couple of years. If it doesn’t work out, we can consider moving back to LA. 

[GeorgiaRai]

36 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

This is true, but we've seen Kate's first move after perhaps realizing that her marriage is doomed is to try to get a full time position as a teacher's aide; which we the audience, at least, know is not going to pay enough to cover her expenses, let alone the extra child care she is going to need if she works full time.  That money has to come from somewhere, and given Kate's track record, it seems as though, once again, she is expecting someone else to pay the bills so she can do what she wants rather than what needs to be done.  Miguel is just one option, I think, since he's done it before and has the money; Kevin will be bankrolling her lifestyle so she can continue to dabble in her low paying 'career'.

I realize this show plays fast and loose with money issues, but Kate working as a teacher's aide to support herself, including paying the mortgage on a home in LA, no less, is not even close to believable.  We can pretend that Randall earned enough in bonuses while working in the stock market to be able to afford their lifestyle on a councilman's salary in Philly, including the large sum they must've lost on Beth's dance studio.  Kate has worked as a waitress and as a 'gopher' for her brother.  That's about it, except for the couple of episodes where she was someone else' assistant and when she failed miserably as a 'professional' singer.

We were told they used their savings while Toby was unemployed, and he's only been working a few months at his new job; they cannot possibly have enough assets for Kate to think she's going to come away with a large cash settlement in the divorce.

Oh, I agree with all of this!!  I was responding to thread chatter more than the show.  I think this is a logical assumption about Kate's future - even though, as someone said upthread, it hasn't happened yet. 

I'm irritated with the show for splitting up K&T AND for introducing Phillip Mean Jerk.  And on top of that, doing it in a way that feels unfair to the character of Toby.  If nothing else, I hope before the finale they show the good (real) side of him again; I don't want it to end with Toby being the one person everyone hates.  (Not that Chris Sullivan would care, I guess, but I do! lol)

[chocolatine]

8 minutes ago, Pattycake2 said:

Doesn’t she remember Toby laying in bed depressed out of his mind?

Which happened because he stopped taking his anti-depressants in order to maximize their chances of getting pregnant, because Kate really wanted a biological child despite strong warnings from her doctor. Toby risked his own life to make her happy, but Kate doesn't want to budge even a little bit to let Toby have something that makes him happy.

[pennben]

57 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

That money has to come from somewhere, and given Kate's track record, it seems as though, once again, she is expecting someone else to pay the bills so she can do what she wants rather than what needs to be done. 

Toby will owe (not give) child support & alimony (at least, insofar as alimony until she remarriage). 

[mansonlamps]

2 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

True.  Although the big gesture shit is what I've hated about this show!  

I didn't see it as a big gesture as much as what every single person I've ever visited in a city I've never been to planned in advance trying to show me a good time.   Especially in a city as iconic as SF.

1 hour ago, Pattycake2 said:

She’s returning to her own happy little bubble surrounded by everyone and everything she knows. 

Which is who really?  It's a surprisingly small world,  maybe she would have been better off herself,  not to mention her family,  moving to a city where her husband is thriving and creating a bigger circle than what she has left.

Edited March 26, 2022 by mansonlamps
Typo

[Rootbeer]

29 minutes ago, pennben said:

Toby will owe (not give) child support & alimony (at least, insofar as alimony until she remarriage). 

Kate is an able bodied woman who presumably will be be working full time, the marriage has been brief, maybe 4 years.  In most cases, she would get minimal, if any, alimony.  If Kate wanted to stay home with the kids until they are in school, especially in view of the fact that Jack has special needs, she might be awarded alimony until he is in school full time which is no more than a couple years.  

The judge will be pretty generous with child support, and I expect Toby won't begrudge his kids anything; but Kate supposedly was an independent self-supporting person when they met.  I don't see Toby wanting to continue to pay her way. 

Maybe this is why she seemingly gets together with Mean Jerk and marries him so fast; she needs someone to cover her expenses.

[mansonlamps]

35 minutes ago, pennben said:

Toby will owe (not give) child support & alimony (at least, insofar as alimony until she remarriage). 

That's an interesting way to put a negative spin on Toby for no reason, with the implication that he's not willing to support his children, rather is something that is owed Kate.   Alimony to me is ridiculous in today's world,  he didn't demand she be a SAHM mother for decades like in the old days.   Why do women need their divorced husbands to pay them over and above paying their fair share to make sure the kids are taken care of.