S02.E08: The Viscount Who Loved Me

[bijoux]

Bringing this back to how Anthony and Kate looked like Edwina's parents at times, I just ran across this from episode 2.

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by bijoux

[ouinason]

My point about Portia being a woman was about what other people would think, and why they wouldn't see that she was complicit.

Jack can decide to leave the title to one of the girls' sons, if he doesn't have a legitimate heir before he dies, but I think it would take more than just a single document to do.  

As for Lady Danbury or other dowagers, I believe that once widowed, if they were left money, women could control their own property.  

[bijoux]

36 minutes ago, ouinason said:

Jack can decide to leave the title to one of the girls' sons, if he doesn't have a legitimate heir before he dies, but I think it would take more than just a single document to do.  

It's not post-Jack, Portia will "find" a document passing the title and the estates to the firstborn grandson of the former baron, her husband. It cuts Jack out entirely, he'll be an interloper in every regard, stealing money from the members of the ton, Portia included, she made sure there's a record of jer giving him money to invest, and usurping the title that shouldn't have been his.

I suppose we're to assume that she and Varley covered all bases. Penelope definitely gets her ability to fool people from her mother. They're actually really similar, both of them are belittled by the ton, but they're both hustlers. It makes me wonder whether the show will address that.

[ouinason]

7 hours ago, bijoux said:

It's not post-Jack, Portia will "find" a document passing the title and the estates to the firstborn grandson of the former baron, her husband. It cuts Jack out entirely, he'll be an interloper in every regard, stealing money from the members of the ton, Portia included, she made sure there's a record of jer giving him money to invest, and usurping the title that shouldn't have been his.

well, in that case, it's just bullshit.  Historically anyway.  People did that, but only when another heir could not be found and the title would otherwise disappear.  Daddy F HAD an heir, Jack's dad, so this is just whimsy.

[Plums]

13 hours ago, ouinason said:

well, in that case, it's just bullshit.  Historically anyway.  People did that, but only when another heir could not be found and the title would otherwise disappear.  Daddy F HAD an heir, Jack's dad, so this is just whimsy.

My interpretation is that Portia doesn't give a shit about the title, just the money and the property. The baron title can't go to her first grandson by one of the girls, but the estate can, and the estate inheritance from her late husband to the firstborn son of his daughters is what she had Varley forge.

It also works out for her as a convenient retroactive excuse for why Jack was engaged to Prudence- because he knew the property would go to the first son of one of the girls and wanted to keep it for his own family. She could really paint him as an absolute villain who not only scammed thousands of pounds out of the ton, but took advantage of her daughter. Since he stole their money, I think the ton would be amenable to that extra evil, and it would help Prudence's reputation recover. And since Jack fled the country and would be a wanted felon, I don't think solicitors would look too closely at a newly discovered codicil to the late Lord Featherington's will that disinherits his heir, especially if it looks official enough.  

And I think we're meant to assume that Lord Featherington had the power to separate the estate from the heir of the title if he wanted to. The guy slapped the deed to his home onto a table as a gambling bet. 

[Kira53]

On 4/5/2022 at 4:00 PM, roseslg said:

I ended this feeling so much meh. So much meh. The acting for Kate was very wooden at times. The pacing was off, some of the storylines were just so convoluted. If they just did the family scenes and interactions and got rid of the nonsensical romantic storyline or at least have it resemble the books in some manner, and the discovery of Lady Whistledown and that whole Featherington plot line, it would feel less contrived. I think it doesn't help that I have read the books, and while I am not a purist by any means, this just strayed so far from that. Like Pluto far.

I agree.  I wish I liked it more.  I was looking forward to this and I was so bored.  The sisters acting was not good but the writing was worst.  Not believable.  I didn’t see the heat.  No problem not binging.  I went to sleep in the middle of some episodes.  

[Scarlett45]

On 5/4/2022 at 6:22 AM, Cetacean said:

I am confused by that, though. Weren't estates entailed on male heirs?  Even though he scampered away, doesn't the title still belong to him?  Seems like that was the big deal on Downton Abbey, the fact that there was no way that the daughters would inherit the estate, it had to go to a male heir.

 

On 5/4/2022 at 8:37 AM, Enero said:

That's my thought as well, that the estate would be in control of whomever is the next male in the family whether that be a son, brother, cousin, uncle etc., but then we have Lady Danbury who is widowed and appears to have control of her own money and estate? Does she have any children? I'm assuming if she has daughters they're married off somewhere. I doubt she has a son because he'd be in control of the estate. 

 

The entail might have been ending with Cousin Jack. Not all entails were “ in perpetuity”- he may have been the generation to BREAK the entail or re-affirm it. 
 

 This YouTube video has a brief explanation of breaking entails without getting into into the DEEP legal stuff. 

[phoenics]

On 4/29/2022 at 5:54 PM, ursula said:

There was zero emotional complexity is exactly my point. Anthony preferred Kate because he wanted to bang her. The show was so busy pushing the love triangle between these two sisters and Anthony that it ended up splitting Kathony's love story. Edwina got to bond emotionally with Anthony while Kate got the UST and nothing else. 90% of the time, Kate and Anthony behaved like they hated each other.

I knew there was something seriously wrong when I found Dorset, a glorified extra, a better romantic suitor for Kate than the romantic lead. Their 10 minute boat ride gave them a deeper connection than Kathony got through out the season.

I love an enemies to lovers trope when done well, but the "to" was missing. Maybe if they had taken 20 minutes from the B, C and D plots to actually service the love story, we could have seen Kate and Anthony talk to each other about something other than wanting to bang. (And the ultimate irony is that after all the emphasis on sex, it's still left unclear whether they even had it!)

So I agree with the general gist of what you are saying - but disagree that S2 didn't have the Bridgerton magic.  I think it was undersold in terms of the Kanthony relationship - but to say that Anthony only chose Kate out of lust doesn't work for me given their banter when they first met and all the times they just talked - even if I agree with you that it wasn't nearly enough and they did not develop Kate properly at all (I'm still mad).  The major issue was that they didn't develop Kate enough.  I blame the focus on side plots for that - I still believe the writers did not have enough faith in Kanthony (fools) and that they believe NC is the lead for Bridgerton (she's not if they want me as a fan to stick around).  I didn't like the triangle either and felt they gave Edwina lines/dialogue that should have been for Kanthony - particularly the parts about her father being dead.  BAsically the writers choosing side plots over their lead couple still pisses me off.  When I rewatch it's just the Kanthony scenes.  The rest can die in a fire.

But - I've rewatched this season at least 6 times by now and I'm pretty sure I'm going to watch again - and that doesn't even count that I've watched at least 3 or 4 reactors reacting to the season on youtube as well.  So my true rewatches are nearing 10.

I did not rewatch S1 more than once.  It just didn't compel the way this season did for me.

My only beef were the things you mentioned and the only thing that will make S3 work for me is if the show makes Kanthony a major side plot and if they backburner Eloise if they are gonna do Polin and then backburner Pen in s4 if they are gonna do Eloise's story.  If the show is going to continue to treat NC like a defacto lead, that's not what I signed up for and I'm out.

 

[roseslg]

2 hours ago, phoenics said:

So I agree with the general gist of what you are saying - but disagree that S2 didn't have the Bridgerton magic.  I think it was undersold in terms of the Kanthony relationship - but to say that Anthony only chose Kate out of lust doesn't work for me given their banter when they first met and all the times they just talked - even if I agree with you that it wasn't nearly enough and they did not develop Kate properly at all (I'm still mad).  The major issue was that they didn't develop Kate enough.  I blame the focus on side plots for that - I still believe the writers did not have enough faith in Kanthony (fools) and that they believe NC is the lead for Bridgerton (she's not if they want me as a fan to stick around).  I didn't like the triangle either and felt they gave Edwina lines/dialogue that should have been for Kanthony - particularly the parts about her father being dead.  BAsically the writers choosing side plots over their lead couple still pisses me off.  When I rewatch it's just the Kanthony scenes.  The rest can die in a fire.

But - I've rewatched this season at least 6 times by now and I'm pretty sure I'm going to watch again - and that doesn't even count that I've watched at least 3 or 4 reactors reacting to the season on youtube as well.  So my true rewatches are nearing 10.

I did not rewatch S1 more than once.  It just didn't compel the way this season did for me.

My only beef were the things you mentioned and the only thing that will make S3 work for me is if the show makes Kanthony a major side plot and if they backburner Eloise if they are gonna do Polin and then backburner Pen in s4 if they are gonna do Eloise's story.  If the show is going to continue to treat NC like a defacto lead, that's not what I signed up for and I'm out.

 

I'm the opposite. I forced myself to finish this season while I have watched season 1 a few times. It just felt so contrived. I just wasnt buying any heat or passion between them.  Anthony was fine, but Kate wasnt working for me.

[katha]

Yeah, the lack of writing for Kate is the major frustration of the season for me. Ashley has done interviews that show she has a deep understanding of the character, her issues and where she needs to go from here. And she made work whatever she could with her performance, but it's annoying that so much had to be done without words since the script is not focused on Kate as it should be.

Kate is basically a Mr Darcy type. A closed off introvert who tries to repress her feelings at all costs. A character like that needs a little more careful presentation.

[Enero]

7 hours ago, phoenics said:

The major issue was that they didn't develop Kate enough. 

But - I've rewatched this season at least 6 times by now and I'm pretty sure I'm going to watch again - and that doesn't even count that I've watched at least 3 or 4 reactors reacting to the season on youtube as well.  So my true rewatches are nearing 10.

Though I can agree that Kate should’ve got more focus, overall what we did get of her worked for me. I think this was mainly due to SA’s nuanced acting and the dialogue (though very little) we did get that provided insight into her character. When the season ended I was more frustrated about not getting enough Kate/Anthony happily married than story for Kate herself. 
 

Quote

I did not rewatch S1 more than once.  It just didn't compel the way this season did for me.

Me neither. Though I enjoyed S1 and initially thought that overall it was better than S2, I’ve found myself re-watching S2 numerous times. And have been involved in discussions on and offline about this season. Something that did not happen with S1. So perhaps my original thought was wrong and I actually find S2 better than S1 considering how I’ve been more engaged with watching and discussing the former rather than the latter. Lol.

Quote

My only beef were the things you mentioned and the only thing that will make S3 work for me is if the show makes Kanthony a major side plot and if they backburner Eloise if they are gonna do Polin and then backburner Pen in s4 if they are gonna do Eloise's story.  If the show is going to continue to treat NC like a defacto lead, that's not what I signed up for and I'm out.

Though  I’m not holding my breath, I do hope that S3 will of course give us a lot more of Kate/Anthony, but also more insight into Kate. It would be interesting to see how her mother’s death impacted her and subsequently how it affects her approach to being a wife, and eventually a mother. I know that the writers didn’t want a similar ending to this season as last, but I found it surprising that Kate/Anthony had been on their honeymoon for 6 months, and we know getting it in every single day, probably numerous times a day with their passion Lol, but she didn’t come back pregnant. I’m glad they are still child free. I’d like to enjoy them as a hot married couple with no little ones yet. But I do wonder if fertility issues may be something they explore with the couple next season? Or will they just be mysteriously child-free until the writers decide to have Kate suddenly come up pregnant.
 

Whatever is decided, I hope the writers realize they have a powerhouse in SA/JB. I know they have other stories to tell and other characters to focus on, but I think if Kate/Anthony aren’t the focus, they should have be co-leading next (and perhaps future) season/s or be leading a very strong B storyline during the season. 

[truthaboutluv]

16 hours ago, Enero said:

Though I can agree that Kate should’ve got more focus, overall what we did get of her worked for me. I think this was mainly due to SA’s nuanced acting and the dialogue (though very little) we did get that provided insight into her character. When the season ended I was more frustrated about not getting enough Kate/Anthony happily married than story for Kate herself. 

It worked for me as well and I don't think it's only due to Simone's acting. I think the writers did do a decent job of creating a backstory for Kate. I've thought about this quite a bit since that's such a common complaint I read regarding her character and having re-watched parts of the season, I completely disagree that Kate wasn't developed enough. 

I wonder if for some, the perceived lack of development is due to not having any flashbacks of her life like we got with Anthony. But the more I think about it, I felt like had we gotten these, it might have become repetitive from what we already saw with Anthony. I'll explain. 

No, far as we're aware, Kate's father didn't die of a bee sting. But that factor aside, I thought the writers made it plainly clear that Kate and Anthony's lives significantly mirrored each other with both losing their fathers and being the oldest, taking on the heavy burden of feeling like it was now their responsibility to care for their family. 

Yes, Anthony as a man really had no choice in taking on that responsibility but the viewers were given multiple scenes of Kate herself explaining how and why she stepped into that role for her family. We saw it from the first episode when Lady Danbury confronted her about her true reasons for wanting to marry Edwina off well. 

There was the great scene between Kate and Mary that further explained why Kate felt she had to almost prove herself, owing to Mary not being her biological mother. And it was a passing comment, but I thought it was important when Mary said to Anthony she blamed herself a bit for Kate taking on the burden because when her husband died, she checked out. That moment of course brought to mind what we saw of how Violet just about gave up after Edmund passed and left her still grieving son to shoulder everything. 

The point is, I thought the writers did a more than decent job in showing the parallels between Kate and Anthony and thus, explaining why both were the way they were - why Anthony was terrified of marrying for love and Kate all but giving up on finding love for herself and focusing on her younger sister. Would an additional scene or two have helped, I guess. But I can't say I ended the season feeling like I didn't really know or understand who Kate was. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by truthaboutluv

[Cetacean]

Agree. totally with ^^^.

I felt like Kate was supremely self-controlled with her full purpose in life determined for her at the death of her father.  She had a part to play and stuck rigidly to that role.  A lot was inferred but unsaid but it's not a stretch to see that Kate and Anthony lead parallel lives.  We didn't need to see every detail to make the connection.

[phoenics]

On 5/7/2022 at 1:53 PM, truthaboutluv said:

 

I wonder if for some, the perceived lack of development is due to not having any flashbacks of her life like we got with Anthony. But the more I think about it, I felt like had we gotten these, it might have become repetitive from what we already saw with Anthony. I'll explain. 

 

I think the anger about this was due to:

 

the fact that the show completely dropped Kate's storm phobia and link to her mother's death from the books.  It reads like the show didn't care to delve enough into Kate.

If the show didn't want to do that, it should have replaced it with something else so that Kate didn't feel shafted as a lead by the writers by so many of us.

Edited May 9, 2022 by phoenics

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

I think the anger about this was due to:

  Hide contents

the fact that the show completely dropped Kate's storm phobia and link to her mother's death from the books.  It reads like the show didn't care to delve enough into Kate.

If the show didn't want to do that, it should have replaced it with something else so that Kate didn't feel shafted as a lead by the writers by so many of us.

Her storm phobia wasn't entirely ignored though. It's the reason she and Anthony had the moment in the library. She mentioned that she couldn't sleep because of the storm, that they'd always been unsettling for her and her father would read to her, to make her feel better. And so the storm reminded her of him. 

I can understand 

Spoiler

if in the books this was tied to the loss of her mother, that some fans of the book series were disappointed it was changed. And admittedly I've never read the books so I can't say wholeheartedly I may not have been bothered if I had. However, I have always been someone who is okay with changes from a book to the screen, accepting that some things will be sacrificed for time. 

As I said above, I'm sure there are a few additional scenes that could have added to Kate's overall story. After all, no one is disagreeing that the writers spent far too long on the side stories, instead of focusing on the lead romance.

I just don't feel that as a whole, I came away from the season feeling like I didn't understand who Kate was as a character - as in what motivated her, and what drove her in most of her choices and decisions. 

And for me, once I have that, I consider it solid character development. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by truthaboutluv

[truthaboutluv]

5 hours ago, bijoux said:

Keeping to that outline, how would you have changed the story not to included the engagement or at least the almost wedding? I honestly don't know.

Interesting question. I think for me, the big mistake was getting all the way to the wedding day. That I firmly believed dragged the whole mess much too far. If I had any say, I would have ended things with Anthony and Edwina's engagement, when it looked very likely - after the disastrous dinner with Mary's parents. 

The moment could have still served the purpose of Edwina being mad at Kate and creating conflict in their relationship, as we saw that she was mad at Kate for not telling her the whole truth. There would still be some level of scandal with the gossip running rampant over why Edwina and Anthony's engagement ended.

And I imagine the writers could have still found some way to drag Anthony and Kate fighting their feelings, especially if they had Kate feeling guilty about messing things up. I just really do not believe they needed to do the over the top soapiness of having Anthony and Edwina get to a whole wedding day.

And then proceed to spend most of the hour on "Edwina's Choice" where suddenly I guess we were being told all the power lay in Edwina's hand for what she wanted to do, despite the small fact of oh, Anthony actually didn't love her or particularly want to be married to her and oh yes, wanted her sister. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by truthaboutluv

[Enero]

Dupe post

Edited May 9, 2022 by Enero

[Enero]

3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Keeping to that outline, how would you have changed the story not to included the engagement or at least the almost wedding? I honestly don't know.

@bijoux
 

I think if the engagement was avoided Kate/Anthony’s entire arc would’ve had to have been completely rewritten. So I would say, change the story up after Episode 5, which I don’t think would’ve required much rewriting. The writers could’ve moved all the Kate/Anthony/Edwina story beats ahead an episode. It would’ve been ugly but Edwina should’ve witnessed “the bane of my existence” moment. That would’ve essentially torpedoed the engagement/wedding and initiated her anger at both Kate and Anthony. 

Lady Danbury and Violet would’ve still had to come up with a plan to overcome the scandal of the broken engagement. The museum scene and the Harmony Ball still could’ve happened as well as Anthony and Kate making love in the gazebo and the subsequent accident, with Kate being thrown off the horse.

Kate/Anthony could’ve worked through their issues, and got the Queen’s blessing by the end of episode 7. The build up to and subsequent wedding (if they wanted to show them marrying), then the fast forward 6 months later could’ve been in episode 8. With the season pretty much ending as it did. They would’ve had to tweak or stretch some of the side stories to make them blend well with the changes to the progression of the Kate/Anthony story and of course change up how the Queen responded to the broken engagement. I think the scene with Edwina, Violet etc. and the Queen with the King interrupting could’ve still happened. Just with a different setup. But I think the story could’ve been just as interesting without Edwina dramatically discovering the truth while standing at the altar. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Enero

[katha]

Yeah, I thought they just desperately wanted the soap opera moment with the failed wedding and therefore things had to be dragged out in a very tedious manner. And that episode just goes on and on and on and nothing happens. It doesn't even provide proper characterization for Edwina IMO, even though she's so strongly focused. The sort of development she gets could have been accomplished in a few minutes, with having the broken engagement be the scandal and she could have questioned Kate and her role in life just as well without the trainwreck at the altar. It would have made the families overcoming the scandal also easier to believe, hushing up a broken engagement is easier than hushing up a publicly aborted wedding that the whole Ton attended...

It also pulled focus from Kate and Anthony, particularly Kate, to center on the melodrama of it, because it's not like Edwina got all that much development IMO, just endless repetitions of the same scene. 

[Scarlett45]

On 5/6/2022 at 8:17 PM, Enero said:

Though I can agree that Kate should’ve got more focus, overall what we did get of her worked for me. I think this was mainly due to SA’s nuanced acting and the dialogue (though very little) we did get that provided insight into her character. When the season ended I was more frustrated about not getting enough Kate/Anthony happily married than story for Kate herself. 

I agree- Simone is such a strong actor she was able to give us a lot of "Kate" with minimal writing.

 

On 5/6/2022 at 7:28 PM, katha said:

Kate is basically a Mr Darcy type. A closed off introvert who tries to repress her feelings at all costs. A character like that needs a little more careful presentation.

I understand your analysis here.

12 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

The moment could have still served the purpose of Edwina being mad at Kate and creating conflict in their relationship, as we saw that she was mad at Kate for not telling her the whole truth. There would still be some level of scandal with the gossip running rampant over why Edwina and Anthony's engagement ended.

And I imagine the writers could have still found some way to drag Anthony and Kate fighting their feelings, especially if they had Kate feeling guilty about messing things up. I just really do not believe they needed to do the over the top soapiness of having Anthony and Edwina get to a whole wedding day.

And then proceed to spend most of the hour on "Edwina's Choice" where suddenly I guess we were being told all the power lay in Edwina's hand for what she wanted to do, despite the small fact of oh, Anthony actually didn't love her or particularly want to be married to her and oh yes, wanted her sister. 

I know. And it makes Anthony look WORSE for getting TO THE WEDDING DAY, while being madly in love with the woman's sister. Sweet by golly gompers (I am loving that phrase lately). I am still pissed at Anthony for proposing, BUT I could maybe let that go if they had Kate staunchly reject him before that.

 

9 hours ago, Enero said:

I think if the engagement was avoided Kate/Anthony’s entire arc would’ve had to have been completely rewritten. So I would say, change the story up after Episode 5, which I don’t think would’ve required much rewriting. The writers could’ve moved all the Kate/Anthony/Edwina story beats ahead an episode. It would’ve been ugly but Edwina should’ve witnessed “the bane of my existence” moment. That would’ve essentially torpedoed the engagement/wedding and initiated her anger at both Kate and Anthony. 

Lady Danbury and Violet would’ve still had to come up with a plan to overcome the scandal of the broken engagement. The museum scene and the Harmony Ball still could’ve happened as well as Anthony and Kate making love in the gazebo and the subsequent accident, with Kate being thrown off the horse.

Kate/Anthony could’ve worked through their issues, and got the Queen’s blessing by the end of episode 7. The build up to and subsequent wedding (if they wanted to show them marrying), then the fast forward 6 months later could’ve been in episode 8. With the season pretty much ending as it did.

I like the way you think about things. Edwina would have been very justified in her anger if she witnessed that, and we could have had more talks between Lady Mary and Kate (I think the writers did drop the ball there), and Lady Mary could stepped up as a mother and asked Kate what was going on, did she have feelings for Anthony/he for her etc.

[SonofaBiscuit]

13 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Interesting question. I think for me, the big mistake was getting all the way to the wedding day. That I firmly believed dragged the whole mess much too far. If I had any say, I would have ended things with Anthony and Edwina's engagement, when it looked very likely - after the disastrous dinner with Mary's parents. 

My god yes, this would have been much preferred! Anthony and Edwina actually making it to the alter was the number one thing I haaaated most about the season. AND it deprived me of actually getting to see, ya know, the wedding of the couple I really cared about, Anthony and Kate.

I read some interview with someone basically saying that Anthony and Kate's wedding would have paled in comparison to the extravagant wedding put on by the Queen, and that's why we didn't see it. While Anthony and Kate's wedding would have probably been completely awkward for Edwina, I'm despising the choice to not only skip it, but to also skip those first six months of their marriage as well! Like, they gave me the angst but then robbed me of all of the happy Kate/Anthony couple stuff by waiting far too long to finally allow them to be together. Ugh!  

13 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

And then proceed to spend most of the hour on "Edwina's Choice" where suddenly I guess we were being told all the power lay in Edwina's hand for what she wanted to do, despite the small fact of oh, Anthony actually didn't love her or particularly want to be married to her and oh yes, wanted her sister. 

I hated this episode, it was so ridiculous. I mean, the guy was at his own wedding, hiding in a closet with his actual love (his fiancée's sister), grasping her hand, and contemplating kissing her. Like okay, LOL, your marriage to Edwina is never going to work, just walk away.

[andromeda331]

On 5/9/2022 at 10:47 AM, SonofaBiscuit said:

My god yes, this would have been much preferred! Anthony and Edwina actually making it to the alter was the number one thing I haaaated most about the season. AND it deprived me of actually getting to see, ya know, the wedding of the couple I really cared about, Anthony and Kate.

I read some interview with someone basically saying that Anthony and Kate's wedding would have paled in comparison to the extravagant wedding put on by the Queen, and that's why we didn't see it. While Anthony and Kate's wedding would have probably been completely awkward for Edwina, I'm despising the choice to not only skip it, but to also skip those first six months of their marriage as well! Like, they gave me the angst but then robbed me of all of the happy Kate/Anthony couple stuff by waiting far too long to finally allow them to be together. Ugh!  

I hated this episode, it was so ridiculous. I mean, the guy was at his own wedding, hiding in a closet with his actual love (his fiancée's sister), grasping her hand, and contemplating kissing her. Like okay, LOL, your marriage to Edwina is never going to work, just walk away.

I wish we got to see happy moments with them too. The wedding or honeymoon or both. We got that with Daphne and Simon. I really thought we'd get that with Anthony and Kate.

[ursula]

On 5/8/2022 at 8:58 PM, truthaboutluv said:

And then proceed to spend most of the hour on "Edwina's Choice" where suddenly I guess we were being told all the power lay in Edwina's hand for what she wanted to do, despite the small fact of oh, Anthony actually didn't love her or particularly want to be married to her and oh yes, wanted her sister.

This though. It diminished the entire Kathony love story for me by having their decision to be together rest in Edwina’s hands.

[Scarlett45]

On 5/15/2022 at 9:37 AM, ursula said:

This though. It diminished the entire Kathony love story for me by having their decision to be together rest in Edwina’s hands.

I didnt like this either. Because Anthony didnt have to propose to Edwina. He could've married Kate- its not as if Kate was MARRIED or something. I do wish we had at least one scene of an elder (so either Lady Mary, Lady Danbury or Lady Bridgerton) asking Anthony "do you have real feelings for Kate? and she for you? Then why are you not sharing this with KATE?" 

I would've loved more talks with Lady Mary and Kate (the one after her accident was a bit too late in my opinion) asking Kate if she had genuine feelings for Anthony or did she just get wrapped up in lust? (not in a judge-y way, but acknowledging that Kate is a young woman like any other, she has needs and feelings too) Was she concerned Anthony just thought of her as a potential mistress because of her birth? (or Violet could've asked Anthony that and we could've had him make his intentions plain)

[Enero]

5 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Quote

I do wish we had at least one scene of an elder (so either Lady Mary, Lady Danbury or Lady Bridgerton) asking Anthony "do you have real feelings for Kate? and she for you? Then why are you not sharing this with KATE?" 

I think they did sort of have those scenes. However, they were about his feelings for Edwina (except Daphne who did confront him about his feeling for both Edwina and Kate). He was spoken to numerous times about his obvious dread over marrying Edwina and lack of feelings for her but he pushed on with “ the plan” for what he thought were legitimate  reasons.  

 

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Because Anthony didnt have to propose to Edwina. He could've married Kate- its not as if Kate was MARRIED or something.

Anthony absolutely shouldn’t have proposed to Edwina, but I don’t know if acting on his feelings for Kate would’ve been a smooth transition either, even if she admitted that she loved him. Kate was hellbent on getting Edwina married off to an aristocrat and in turn help her family. Despite her love for Anthony, her guilt over keeping Edwina  from what she wanted -Anthony, and  “ruining” her chances at finding a mate would’ve stalled her and Anthony getting together. Not to mention the scandal that would’ve ensued if Anthony backed off courting Edwina to court her sister.  
 

I think the only way this may have worked without turning into a disaster for everyone would’ve been for Anthony to not propose to Edwina and stop pursuing her.  Edwina might’ve been able to salvage her situation and still find a mate, that season. After which, Kate may have been ready to entertain Anthony as she would’ve accomplished what she set out to do, secure Edwina and her family’s future. Anything short of that (or at least having Edwina’s blessing) would’ve been a no go for her courting/marrying Anthony. 
 

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I would've loved more talks with Lady Mary and Kate (the one after her accident was a bit too late in my opinion) asking Kate if she had genuine feelings for Anthony or did she just get wrapped up in lust? (not in a judge-y way, but acknowledging that Kate is a young woman like any other, she has needs and feelings too) Was she concerned Anthony just thought of her as a potential mistress because of her birth? (or Violet could've asked Anthony that and we could've had him make his intentions plain)

I really like this and wish  the writers had used Lady Mary more. I liked the actress and when she was given material I thought she knocked it out the park, but her character was pretty much aloof the entire season. She left Edwina’s mentoring and strategy for finding a mate to Kate (and to a lesser degree Lady Danbury) and was apparently just as obliviously to Kate and Anthony’s situation as Edwina. Which was odd considering the ladies who had just as much or more life experience than her who were close to the situation, Lady Danbury and Violet and even Daphne (who had much less life experience than the formers) picked up on it pretty fast. Lady Danbury actually had a couple of scenes with Kate where they discussed the Anthony situation albeit more alluding to what was going on rather  than outright saying what was happening, but still it was there. It would’ve been nice if Lady Mary got some of those scenes.  But then if she had, they would’ve had to have her intervene and stop Anthony/Edwina’s courtship. There’s no way she would’ve allowed it to continue if she knew he was in love with Kate. Unfortunately that didn’t fit the narrative the writers were going  for.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Enero

[Scarlett45]

30 minutes ago, Enero said:

I really like this and wish  the writers had used Lady Mary more. I liked the actress and when she was given material I thought she knocked it out the park, but her character was pretty much aloof the entire season. She left Edwina’s mentoring and strategy for finding a mate to Kate (and to a lesser degree Lady Danbury) and was apparently just as obliviously to Kate and Anthony’s situation as Edwina. Which was odd considering the ladies who had just as much or more life experience than her who were close to the situation, Lady Danbury and Violet and even Daphne (who had much less life experience than the formers) picked up on it pretty fast. Lady Danbury actually had a couple of scenes with Kate where they discussed the Anthony situation albeit more alluding to what was going on rather  than outright saying what was happening, but still it was there. It would’ve been nice if Lady Mary got some of those scenes.  But then if she had, they would’ve had to have her intervene and stop Anthony/Edwina’s courtship. There’s no way she would’ve allowed it to continue if she knew he was in love with Kate. Unfortunately that didn’t fit the narrative the writers were going  for.

I agree. I think the Lady Mary situation could’ve been explained if the first half of the season she was very sick, not that they thought she would die, but “out of commission” so she asked Lady Danbury to help her daughters. Then have her recover and step in with the “what’s going on?” And some more mom/daughter bonding. 

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I didnt like this either. Because Anthony didnt have to propose to Edwina. He could've married Kate- its not as if Kate was MARRIED or something. I do wish we had at least one scene of an elder (so either Lady Mary, Lady Danbury or Lady Bridgerton) asking Anthony "do you have real feelings for Kate? and she for you? Then why are you not sharing this with KATE?" 

He really didn't have too. Just because Kate wanted him too after she talked with Edwina didn't mean he had too. He told her it would be a mistake. So don't proposed

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I would've loved more talks with Lady Mary and Kate (the one after her accident was a bit too late in my opinion) asking Kate if she had genuine feelings for Anthony or did she just get wrapped up in lust? (not in a judge-y way, but acknowledging that Kate is a young woman like any other, she has needs and feelings too) Was she concerned Anthony just thought of her as a potential mistress because of her birth? (or Violet could've asked Anthony that and we could've had him make his intentions plain)

I do wish we got more talks between Lady Mary and Kate. Did Lady Mary pick up on anything between Kate and Anthony? It would have been nice to see her ask. Or even gently push her towards Anthony or even another man. She knew Kate wasn't planning to marry and why. But you'd think she'd still try because she wanted Kate to be happy. Lord Dorset seemed nice enough and didn't seem to care about Kate's lack of background.

Same with Violet. Why didn't she say anything before in any of her talks about him marrying for love. She seemed to come off like she didn't know about him and Kate and just wanted to be happy when he married. But then she went straight to Daphne after the wedding didn't happen. When did she figure it out? Why didn't she talk to Anthony?

[katha]

I think both Violet and Mary were in some ways in imaginary relationships with their eldest kids. That's why they were so ineffective. They both don't know their children all that well because Kate and Anthony are so walled off.

Violet to some degree understands that something is not right but she always goes about it the wrong way by droning on about duty and how he's not Edmund to a son who is already drowning in duties and traumatized by his father's death. So he shuts her out even more.

Or look at how oblivious Mary is when she says that Kate just wants her independence. Kate's whole face falls and it doesn't register with Mary at all. The trainwreck wedding and how Kate and Anthony keep hurting themselves because they think that is what they owe their families finally serves as a wake up call. But even then Anthony basically has to spell out that he thinks she doesn't love him for Violet to get a clue. The unhealthy dynamics are pretty deeply ingrained.

 

[Enero]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

 She knew Kate wasn't planning to marry and why. But you'd think she'd still try because she wanted Kate to be happy. Lord Dorset seemed nice enough and didn't seem to care about Kate's lack of background.

Sadly I think Lady Mary completely checked out on Kate and Edwina after her husband died. I mean she did still provide them a loving home, obviously, but she seemed to have no clue about who they were, especially Kate. That said, Kate is strong willed and was very good at keeping everyone's focus on where she wanted it to be - Edwina. If the focus turned to her she would make it clear that she had no interest whatsoever in finding a husband. Being that Lady Mary wasn't deeply attuned to Kate's true feelings, she took what was said at face value and thus had no reason to push her towards a mate. She truly believed Kate wanted to be free to live a life as a Governess. And again, Kate did a great job selling that bridge in Brooklyn. See her conversation with Dorset. 

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Same with Violet. Why didn't she say anything before in any of her talks about him marrying for love. She seemed to come off like she didn't know about him and Kate and just wanted to be happy when he married. But then she went straight to Daphne after the wedding didn't happen. When did she figure it out? Why didn't she talk to Anthony?

I think Violet became suspicious of Anthony's feelings for Kate when he made those comments about her and Dorset and his jealous stare down of them at the promenade. However, her suspicions were confirmed, I think, at the wedding when Anthony left his bride to step down from the altar and help her sister retrieve that bracelet from the floor. SMH. I'm surprised more wedding guests didn't pick up on what was going on in that moment. It was painfully obvious that Anthony was not engaged with the ceremony and when he returned to the altar, his body language clearly showed he'd rather be anywhere but there.

But I digress. By the time, Violet's suspicions were confirmed it was too late to speak with Anthony about his feelings for Kate. And even after everything blew up she wasn't exactly pushing him to act on those feelings as they were trying to minimize the scandal that was his failed nuptials. She only came around after seeing Anthony's devastation over Kate's accident. It's interesting though when he and Kate danced at the ball, after the accident, Violet had this near WTF look on her face. Lol. I suspect she was thinking, Anthony I told you not to let her go, but this wasn't exactly what I had in mind. SMH. Lol. 

Off topic a bit, but I have to say upon re-watch, I've come to enjoy Benedict, didn't care for his storyline this season, but I do like him. His facial expressions during the wedding ceremony, when the priest was talking about lust and brut beasts was hilarious as was his facial expressions when Kate and Anthony were going at it about hunting. He did have some pretty good moments this season. I can't wait to see more of his story. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

 

🤣🤣🤣

And poor Benedict has absolutely no clue that Anthony's sneaking looks at his intended's sister throughout the entire thing 🤦‍♀️

[LilJen]

On 5/17/2022 at 11:54 AM, SonofaBiscuit said:

 

🤣🤣🤣

And poor Benedict has absolutely no clue that Anthony's sneaking looks at his intended's sister throughout the entire thing 🤦‍♀️

I look forward to Benedict's seasons simply for the facial expressions we'll be treated to.

[andromeda331]

On 5/16/2022 at 10:34 PM, katha said:

I think both Violet and Mary were in some ways in imaginary relationships with their eldest kids. That's why they were so ineffective. They both don't know their children all that well because Kate and Anthony are so walled off.

Violet to some degree understands that something is not right but she always goes about it the wrong way by droning on about duty and how he's not Edmund to a son who is already drowning in duties and traumatized by his father's death. So he shuts her out even more.

Or look at how oblivious Mary is when she says that Kate just wants her independence. Kate's whole face falls and it doesn't register with Mary at all. The trainwreck wedding and how Kate and Anthony keep hurting themselves because they think that is what they owe their families finally serves as a wake up call. But even then Anthony basically has to spell out that he thinks she doesn't love him for Violet to get a clue. The unhealthy dynamics are pretty deeply ingrained.

 

I think I was hoping for better from Violet. Last season she screwed up by not telling Daphne how to get pregnant and hear Daphne tell her that she didn't prepare her for anything which was true. Then in this season she finally realizes how much Edmund's death and her reaction to it really effected Anthony. It never once seemed to occur to her even though there was a change to her oldest son that all of his siblings noticed.  But she really wasn't much better this season. She takes too long to notice Anthony's interest in Kate. Then waits until after the trainweck wedding to get confirmation from Daphne. She could have gotten that a lot sooner but she didn't. Then worries more about the scandal then anything else. Her efforts could have been better put to use on Anthony. She finally realizes he loves someone but doesn't do anything about it. It was going to be a scandal either way but her and Danbury's plan of pretending everything is fine and thinking a walk and ball was going to magically fix everything. While it's probably typical of the era Violet really isn't a good parent. She doesn't even notice Eloise taking off in the carriage when ever she wants.  

[katha]

I think while Violet loves her children, she seems very set in her ways. And very much tied to her own experiences with little imagination how it could be different for other people. And so she keeps on doing things that are not working even though she sees that she's not reaching her kids. So far this has been a problem with Daphne, Anthony and Eloise.

[ouinason]

Violet is a very Georgian lady

[wanderingstar]

Finished my rewatch this evening, and I enjoyed the season even more the second time.

Wow - on this rewatch Eloise and Theo grew on me. Totally did not see that coming.

That Eloise/Penelope showdown was rough watching. Well played by both Nicola and Claudia, but damn that was hard to watch. Friend breakups always hurt my feelings.

Cried again over the Kate/Lady Mary and Anthony/Lady Violet scenes.

Anthony sure knows how to clear a room-lol

I hope marriage to Kate mellows Anthony out. He needs to stop being so uptight.

“Impostor, party of two?” For season 3, I want more Eloise/Benedict scenes.

[Scarlett45]

On 6/7/2022 at 8:56 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

That Eloise/Penelope showdown was rough watching. Well played by both Nicola and Claudia, but damn that was hard to watch. Friend breakups always hurt my feelings.

Me too. 

[wanderingstar]

On 5/8/2022 at 9:23 PM, truthaboutluv said:

Her storm phobia wasn't entirely ignored though. It's the reason she and Anthony had the moment in the library. She mentioned that she couldn't sleep because of the storm, that they'd always been unsettling for her and her father would read to her, to make her feel better. And so the storm reminded her of him. 

I do wish the library scene had been longer. Not to pick on the Featherington's storyline (I thought it was fine), but they could've shaved a few minutes off of the screen time for that to give us a bit more Kate/Anthony bonding time. Ah well, hope they make up for it in S3.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Gillian Rosh

[SeanC]

You kind of have to just go with the flow of this AU history, but all the same, I had a hard time not laughing at all the aristocratic tut-tutting about "political radicals" when George and Charlotte solved racism in the span of a couple of decades. Like, I guarantee whatever they're talking about at Eloise's meetings, it's not as radical as the creation of a completely racially-integrated society.

[ouinason]

probably girls being able to wear pants

[MrsJumbo3]

I enjoyed season 2 better than season 1. 

my favorite characters were the ones that make me laugh: Benedict, Lady Featherington, the Queen, Newton.

I don’t understand why an actress agrees to take a role & then is never available. I can’t place the Bridgerton daughter who’s name starts with F if she was in a lineup. I can see why they can write off Simon not being there for events, they don’t live close by & he has Duke duties. But the F daughter should be in all of the family scenes. And if they continue to have Daphne make appearances & the Simon actor isn’t available, he should be replaced.

[janie jones]

There would be rioting in the streets if they replaced Rege-Jean Page.

[SeanC]

13 hours ago, MrsJumbo3 said:

I don’t understand why an actress agrees to take a role & then is never available.

The actress who played Francesca was only a cameo in the first season, she presumably didn't have any sort of long-term contract at the time, meaning that the show didn't have first claim on her time when filming season 2 if she had auditioned for other stuff.

[mrsbagnet]

I'm feeling a bit pleased with myself. I nominated Lady Danbury's walking stick for the Primetimer "Best performance by inanimate object award," and it came in 2nd 😁.

Edited July 15, 2022 by mrsbagnet

[TaurusRose]

I've just watched the first three episodes of Season 2 but I've scanned most of the episode threads and can't help laughing at the comparisons between Simon and Daphne's relationship and Kate and Anthony's; however, that's a topic for a different time.  Regarding what I've seen so far, here are my thoughts.

I really can't stand Eloise.  She started grating on my nerves halfway through last season, but I don't know how I'm going to watch the rest of her scenes since she's annoying me full tilt right out of the gate.

Ditto for Kate Sharma. She is totally usurping her mother's role in watching over the younger sister and I don't know why. Her smug, know-it-all demeanor and constantly needing to one up everyone in any situation makes me want to punch her in the face. She came off a bit more sympathetically when she finally lowered her guard and revealed something of herself to Lady Danbury, but that was short-lived.

Younger sister—what's her name, Emily?— she's pretty and dull.  

Anthony Bridgerton.  Didn't like him last year and don't like him now. He is the perfect embodiment of arrogance and privilege. I thought the scene where a bee lands on Kate was poorly acted.  His expressions and emoting were bad and the almost kiss that others found so hot looked silly and awkward to me.  I also cannot buy into his reason for not wanting to be in love with someone. And people thought Simon's reason for not wanting to have children was ridiculous? Major eye-roll here.

I did like the scene in the library where Daphne described the feeling of being passionately in love to Anthony. I could tell she was thinking of Simon and reliving the heat she felt for him, and still has for him now that he's her husband. 

Not sure what is up with Penelope, but I'm not enjoying her Lady Whistledown persona or her mopey Colin crush. Speaking of Colin he is a prig and I dislike him almost as much as I dislike Anthony whose hotness factor is a miss for me. 

Violet's labor scene. Blinking hell! That made me so angry, my blood was boiling. And to think in the United States here we are again.  Having men taking away a woman's agency over her body in 2022.  That scene yanked me out of the moment. I was furious.

I'm hoping I can at least get onboard the Kate-Anthony romance train as the series unfolds, but right now, all I can say is these tired tropes and predictable plots are the reason I ditched romance novels eons ago. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by TaurusRose

[katha]

I looove Kate and Anthony and think that they are splendidly acted and often quite well written, so that's where we disagree. ;-)

But yeaaah: They're supposed to be total jerks the both of them at the beginning of the season and it's played for comedy mostly. The show sets both of them up with massive amounts of unearned confidence and then it all crumbles down on them. They basically throw each other off their dysfunctional trajectories. 

Anthony hits his lowest point with the Edwina proposal and then realigns and tries figuring out what to do with his life. Kate takes longer because she's so very hung up on her grand masterplan, very inflexible and seems absolutely incapable of reacting to change at all. 

What I like is also that the series basically presents this stereotype, extreme version of "girlboss" with her at the beginning and then starts deconstructing it. Because it becomes clear that she's not super confident, she lashes out because the Sharmas are desperate and Kate thinks only her scheme will save them. And then it becomes clear that she thinks she has to earn the love of Mary and Edwina and is only worthy of being a supporting act in her own life. So pretty much the polar opposite of the front she presented at the start. The second half of the season is her basically going into a protracted psychological meltdown because her whole identity is put into question. 

And I did understand where both Anthony and Kate picked up their toxic patterns. You see Anthony being denied any kind of grieving time for his father as a teenager and immediately thrown into the role of head of household. Then observing that Violet spins into depression for a few years. It makes sense that a traumatized kid basically concludes that love is a force of destruction and he needs to stay away from it. Not logical for not-traumatized people, but IMO it made perfect sense. And Kate takes over as head of household also as a teenager because Mary is struck by grief and just in general a passive and avoidant personality who is used to being taken care of. Being a kid as well, she interprets her role all wrong and gets super controlling and overbearing because she doesn't know any better. Basically two parentified eldest siblings stumbling around because they had to pick up the slack for out of commission parents. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by katha

[TaurusRose]

I just finished the series, and for whatever reason, this season didn’t grab me.  

Every scene between Kate and Anthony felt so melodramatic. They never felt authentic to me, and I guess that’s why I wasn’t moved by the long-awaited kiss. That said, I thought their love scene was beautifully choreographed. Although, I’m pretty sure that’s not the response I was supposed to have. Everything following their moment in the gazebo piled on unnecessary drama. At one point, I’m pretty sure I yelled why is Kate so STUPID? Bottom line, I was never invested in Anthony and Kate’s romance. Sitting through it was just an exercise in getting to the finish line. 

Other News:

• I did like the ball scenes. Everything about those scenes was on point; the decorations and music, the colors, the gowns and jewelry. Perfect! 
• Colin visiting Marina. WTF? Not sure why he felt the need to turn that stone over, but I’m glad Marina didn’t pull her punches. 
• I liked how Emily Edwina called Anthony and Kate out and took control of her life and her future. The girl ended up having spunk and fire. Of the bunch, she was the most improved character in my opinion. 
• So, Penelope really is as vile as the rest of her family? Alrighty then.
• Eloise. She needs to fall off a horse and not recover. How is it possible to be born and raised in that family and have NO social graces?
• I liked Kate’s nightgown; the embroidery was exquisite.
• WTF hunt scene moment. Kate did not have to expose her whole thigh to step over a fallen log. Who does that? 
• Gregory Bridgerton is a cutie. 
• Multiple sadness. I really did miss the Duke of Hastings. Even a cameo would have been welcomed. Regé-Jean Page is top-shelf eye candy, and it wasn’t believable that the duke wouldn’t have accompanied his wife to at least one of the huge family get-togethers.
• Lady Danbury’s dinner for the betrothed couple and their families was a standout, and the fallout was entertaining. Mary Sharma’s parents are HORRIBLE people. LOL
• Violet and Lady Danbury's reconciliation was delightful.
• Colin hanging out with his arrogant, entitled friends. He is not only clueless, he is unworthy of any woman. 
• And finally, kudos to Daphne, Benedict, and Colin for calling Anthony out on his incessant whining. Daphne gets bonus points for telling him he wasn’t worthy of respect only pity. 

I hope next season is more engaging.

Edited July 23, 2022 by TaurusRose

[anamika]

Honestly, I felt season 2 was a vast improvement over season one because Kate was such a relatable and adult female lead on an equal footing with the male lead. I am not a fan of the naive heroine getting lessons from the Rake romance trope. Daphne's naivety and then ultimately finding out what Simon was doing, and then planning and engaging in a non-consensual sexual act made me pretty much dislike the character.

On the other hand, Kate just beating Anthony at everything while he fell in love with her is the best part of their romance for me. The guy falling for a girl who is better than him at everything is something I love. I guess it's just personal preference? Plus, these two got married because they wanted to get married and just Anthony making sure this was what Kate wanted - issues of consent being very important - and Kate being equally feral for Anthony. I like that it was Kate who took the first step whenever they kiss or go at it. That she's fully into it - just the way she's caressing his head and holding him. I like how Kate had slutty Anthony on his knees...

What little they gave us of Kate and Anthony was wholly enjoyable with a lot of humor and tension. I thought they did the enemies to lovers stuff well.

If I have any complaints it's that they should have delved more into Kate's backstory and gave her trauma issues the same importance as Anthony. Instead of pointless cousin Jack  subplots and the umpteenth version of Penelope going to the printers, they could have actually spend time fleshing out the female lead of the season. I still find it baffling that Penelope got the flashbacks and Kate didn't in Kate's season! Mary was completely sidelined in favor of Lady Danbury. And the Edwina-Kate relationship took a hit.

This show had two charismatic actors with great chemistry and good acting chops and the showrunners decided that they should instead spend more time on the Featheringtons. Baffling.

[katha]

I like how they play with stereotypes and then deconstruct them in the season. Anthony is a rake, but his main issue is being traumatized and swallowed by his duties. Kate is a walking, talking girlboss parody in the first two episodes or so. But the show relentlessly pokes fun at her for it. Lady Danbury is dragging her and her misguided plans all over town, pointing out how they will fail. And lo and behold, they fail exactly as predicted. Anthony outmanouvers her for access to Edwina and she has to realize that she can't micromanage her sister for the rest of her life. What did she think, that she could somehow be the third person in the marriage to make sure everything went as she wanted it? The dreaded love triangle becomes a horror version of what Kate actually wanted to establish when she refused to let Edwina make her own decisions and tried to screen her suitors IMO.

I liked that Anthony's experience was not used in the usual rake narrative, but to establish that he's just very comfortable in his skin during sex. Both taking charge and letting a partner take charge. That was already established in the first season with Siena as well. He doesn't have the hang-ups about having to stay in control to hide things about himself that were such an issue with Simon. And then the dysfunction further spiraled with Daphne assaulting Simon. He understands that Kate is on very uncertain emotional footing in the gazebo and so he makes it about her, because he knows what he wants at that point and emotionally Kate needs that focus much more than he does. And he's right because afterwards she drowns in guilt for it and basically tries to self-harm with that reckless ride. So I don't think he's being melodramatic when he regrets the gazebo, for all it was nice at the moment it led to Kate further spinning out of control.  Contrast that with the scene in the epilogue where he can take things for himself because they're on safe emotional ground now. It was good storytelling.

That said, I do think Kate's meltdown in the second half of the season needed more focus. No one needed that much Featheringtons. The dysfunction that was the Sharmas lacked the proper attention that the Violet/Anthony dysfunction got. And Anthony got the full leading man arc with basically falling apart with the Edwina proposal and then getting a dynamic and proactive arc where he finds his voice and goes for what he wants in his life. Kate OTOH was stuck in guilt and passivity until the very end of episode 8. She would have gone back to India in penance if Mary and Edwina hadn't forgiven her. Making herself that subservient in the family unit is deeply troubling and I don't think she understands that there's anything wrong with it even at the very end. I can see her doing the same thing with the Bridgertons while they are oblivious and self-involved and just take it for granted tbh. So ideally Kate gets some more development in season three in this regard.

[Camera One]

The resolution was mostly good, though I think I was getting a little tired of the back and forth between Anthony and Kate by the end.  Overall, I did find the season an enjoyable enough diversion, with some pacing issues (like with the dragged out triangle). 

I too would have preferred to see a bit more of Anthony and Kate together as a couple, but hopefully, since this is a TV series, this can still happen next season.   I was glad Daphne was back and we got to see her even though the other actor playing her husband did not return.

I think this season was stronger than the last not necessarily because of the main couple, but because it also developed the relationship between Anthony and his mother.  The flashbacks helped to develop Anthony as a protagonist and explained his behavior, and he got to grow throughout the season.  The scene with Gregory was nice.

I also liked Kate's scene with her mother, and her backstory paralleled Anthony's quite well.

Last season, I did like Simon's flashbacks, but his whole vow not to have children was so irrational that it was harder to identify with the character.  Daphne's main trait seemed to be naivety and sexual innocence, which made the relationship uncomfortable to watch.  This season, the main characters felt more grounded.

Benedict seems like a nice guy but he doesn't have much presence so I wonder how he would be as a protagonist.  I can't say his stories either season stood out.

I was surprised Colin figured out Mr. Featherington's scheme.  It seemed to come out of nowhere.  Didn't he already give him the money?  I expected the boxer guy to give Anthony a heads-up about what his brother was proposing to do.

Last season, I didn't think Penelope as Lady Whistledown was believable at all, but I haven't minded the plot ramifications too much this season.  I don't get why Eloise would suddenly realize it was Penny.  I feel we rarely heard Penelope gossiping about others in her conversations with Eloise in the past.  Did Penny slip because she was missing her outlet as Lady Whistledown?  

Eloise's printer boyfriend seems nice, but those scenes put me on edge.  It must be the most conveniently empty printshop ever.  Wouldn't her carriage be rather conspicuous outside?  

The blow-up between Penelope and Eloise was well acted, and I couldn't really side with either of them.  The fallout could make for an interesting Season 3.  I didn't feel the urge to watch Season 2 for quite a while, but I won't wait so long after release for Season 3.

[braziliangirl]

I wanted to like Eloise more but she's so clueless and entitled. She makes Emma Woodhouse a more sensible and wise person in comparison. 

I mean...the scene with her talking to the other women about not disobeying their mothers. So entitled. She clearly thinks she's so above them all. Or the way she reacts when someone asks her to dance. 

I also thought her speech to Penelope a bit hypocritical. She didn't seem to mind LW talking about Marina in the beggining of the season. She was happily reading (and wanted LW to say more about her "cause") until it said something about her (which I do understand but...). For someone who says so much about woman rights she seems to not understand AT ALL why the others need to get married. She talks about them with contempt not sympathy or empathy. 

Also, I didn't really buy that what made her step back from Theo was about him. I think when he leaned over to kiss her she understood that actions would've consequences for HER (and her family). 

ETA: LW did something nice to Eloise after told about the pressure of being compared to Daphne in the first episode of the season. 

Saying to Penelope that dig about being an wallflower (when she knows that she has no suitors for two seasons)...way harsh, Tai. 

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by braziliangirl