S02.E08: The Viscount Who Loved Me

[Roseanna]

2 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

I find the whole Lady Whistledown thing to be a major writing fail.  Aside from how unbelievable it is that a sheltered girl who doesn't even know where babies come from is capable of writing bon mots full of sexual innuendo, as well as galavanting around town unsupervised at all hours of the night, the writers seem to be unaware that they have written Penelope as a total sociopath.  Like, they seem to think LW is the equivalent of Fashion Police (making snarky remarks about clothing), when she is actually more like TMZ (posting pictures of celebrity corpses or whatever).  The main problem is that they want Pen to remain a viable Bridgerton friend and love interest, while also using LW to continually almost to ruin the B's for the sake of maximum drama.  If they were going to make Pen the big bad and have the B's band together to ruin her that would be one thing, but it doesn't appear that's where it's heading.

We are supposed to sincerely believe that Eloise is Pen's best friend and that she truly loves Colin, yet in the space of two seasons she has posted malicious poison pen gossip about Daphne, Colin and Eloise that has nearly caused the ruin of this family all for her own financial gain.  There was zero reason for Pen to write her hit piece on Daphne, who as far as we are aware had never been mean to Pen.  Not to mention that Pen would have been well aware that ruining Daphne would have ruined Eloise and the other B sisters, but she clearly didn't give a fuck about that.

Pen tried to justify the outing of Marina by saying she had no choice but her actions show that is not true.  She could have told Colin directly, or spoken to any other Bridgerton to pass on the info so they could stop Colin running off to get married.  We know she has no problem sneaking out at night and being alone with men, so she was clearly capable of providing the necessary information discretely.  But instead she went nuclear and nearly ruined both families.

Then, the Eloise thing.  Yikes.  Pen proved herself to be a completely selfish coward here.  Her claim that the Queen wouldn't believe her was total bullshit, especially since we know Pen was on her list of suspects.  Would the Queen really believe that Pen would fall on her sword with a fake confession and risk the Queen's wrath to protect her friend?  Even if the Queen did think that, all Pen had to do was prove herself by writing a LW column in front of the Queen and then have it printed as proof of her identity.  I didn't have a problem with Eloise invading Pen's privacy by ransacking her room because Pen's actions as LW have proven that she doesn't give a fuck about anyone else's privacy.

Also, Pen was totally gaslighting Eloise by blaming her for the for the column.  She could have confessed to the Queen, confessed to Eloise, or written something less awful than what she did.  But nope, she chose to betray her best friend and cry her crocodile tears.  Also, Pen's outrage at Eloise's activities rings pretty hollow when she regularly sneaks out alone with her male driver, goes to seedy parts of town, and is alone again with the various men at the print shop.  If any other person in the ton had been doing this I'm sure LW would be implying they were a prostitute or something.

Let's not forget that at the start of the season it has been 10 months and the Featheringtons were suffering massive financial hardship and had no idea when the new LF was going to arrive to "save" them.  Pen is apparently sitting on stacks of cash from her LW endeavours but she never considers coming clean to her mother and offering up any of the money to help her family.

This makes for a pretty good Machiavellian villain, who has harboured a secret hatred and jealousy for the perfect Bs and delights in seeing them get knocked off their pedestal.  But it doesn't make much sense for a sweet girl who loves Eloise like a sister and wants nothing more than to marry Colin.

Bravo! 

Pen's self-justifications are just like those that informers in dictatorship use to say: "I only told the truth" or if that was false "I couldn't do no other to save myself".

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, Pestilentia said:

I think that is probably how she rationalizes it in her little Jan Brady/middle child syndrome pea brain head, but it does not absolve her of her sins, which are many.

I assume that Pen is technically a Cindy Brady and is the youngest of the Featheringtons. IIRC she was only to be introduced to the marriage mart last season whereas the other two had been shopped around for a bit.

[libgirl2]

5 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I assume that Pen is technically a Cindy Brady and is the youngest of the Featheringtons. IIRC she was only to be introduced to the marriage mart last season whereas the other two had been shopped around for a bit.

Yes, I'm sure you are right, she is the youngest. 

[Roseanna]

32 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I suspect Pen felt obligated to totally put the kibosh on Eloise's developing relationship with Theo. Pen probably felt responsible for Eloise meeting him in the first place in her pursuit of the identity of Lady W, and could not bear the thought of Eloise being "ruined" by such a relationship. 
Pen using a similar approach to "protect" Colin last season by outing Marina's pregnancy was motivated by jealousy. 
But this time I think she meant well. She was taking the advice of seamstress Madame Delacroix.

How on earth did she "mean well" by publicly ruining her best friend's reputation? (And was it really so bad if Eloise and Theo who had much common had fallen in love? They could have eloped and taken the ship to America.)   

Instead, saving Colin from a marriage based on the false premises could be better defended although even then Pen could have found better means to do it. But based on how Colin behaved when he met Marina, he still cared for her after a year, maybe their marriage could have succeeded and he would have forgiven her after understanding her motives - it can be in order to prevent it why Pen did her revelation publicly. 

[LadyChaos]

I was thinking this morning, that I think I understand why Penelope hadn't told Eloise....and thats because I think she knows Eloise would've wanted to take control of LW and get Penelope to say things she wouldn't to say. She'd probably want to be a part of it, and want to take it over. For two people who are supposed to be best friends.....its rather obvious that Eloise doesn't really know Penelope very well....or she would've figured out Penelope is in love with Colin and would've considered Pen as LW a lot sooner..... I mean the fact that Eloise dismissed Pen as LW from the off kind of makes me wonder if Eloise doesn't really think much of Pen....or is their friendship mostly based on the fact that Penelope was willing to listen to Eloise prattle on when no one else would...and that Pen just liked someone not treating her like trash? I mean, how often have we watched their encounters and saw Eloise doing 85% of the talking between them?

[LadyChaos]

2 hours ago, greekmom said:

If Pen/LW just reported that Eloise was in support for women's rights and went to the occasional rally, wouldn't that have been scandalous enough to shut the Queen from suspecting Eloise but not totally ruin  her reputation?

Plus if Pen was so good at gleaming gossip, she should have known about the schemes of Lord Featherington 2.0 but she didn't report on that to save her family even though you can tell she wasn't in favour of it. Or she could have easily written how her mother Portia set up the whole Prudence/L.F. 2.0.

 

She did....she told the readers that Eloise was covorting with political radicals .... she did not say she was spending time alone with a man.

How would Pen have known about the scheme? Her mother and the new LF were only talking in private, behind closed doors? 

[TheOtherOne]

Even if I agreed that Penelope needs to be redeemed, that's kind of what Shonda's shows do, isn't it? Redeem women who are introduced as antagonists it initially seems the audience is supposed to hate? Addison the unfaithful wife who slept with our hero's best friend on Grey's. Mellie the scheming political wife who was introduced lying about having a miscarriage. Shonda likes complicated women, and women who don't behave the way they're "supposed" to, and I would expect that even in shows she didn't create.

 

 

[Atlanta]

Why was Kate not wearing a wedding ring in the final scenes?

[Door County Cherry]

13 minutes ago, TheOtherOne said:

Even if I agreed that Penelope needs to be redeemed, that's kind of what Shonda's shows do, isn't it? Redeem women who are introduced as antagonists it initially seems the audience is supposed to hate? Addison the unfaithful wife who slept with our hero's best friend on Grey's. Mellie the scheming political wife who was introduced lying about having a miscarriage.

But both of those women led as antagonists to cause problems for the central couple.  The introduction we got to them was through Meredeith/Derek/Olivia/Fitz;'s eyes before we saw things through Addie or Mellie's eyes. 

Before they can do redemption, they have to acknowledge how not okay things are.  Maybe they will but considering Penelope is a point of view character and Nicola was slated to do a lot of promo for the show, I don't think that's the case. They are setting her up as the most consistent lead over two seasons.  

[LadyChaos]

2 minutes ago, TheOtherOne said:

Even if I agreed that Penelope needs to be redeemed, that's kind of what Shonda's shows do, isn't it? Redeem women who are introduced as antagonists it initially seems the audience is supposed to hate? Addison the unfaithful wife who slept with our hero's best friend on Grey's. Mellie the scheming political wife who was introduced lying about having a miscarriage. Shonda likes complicated women, and women who don't behave the way they're "supposed" to, and I would expect that even in shows she didn't create.

 

 

And I don't get why she needs to be redeemed. Or why people are calling Pen a narcissist and self-centered. Pen spent her entire life being bullied and found a way to get back at those bullying her. Even in the Marina situation, she didn't out Marina's secret until she felt backed into a corner, and Marina talked down to her and treated her like a child...still she only did it to protect Colin for a loveless marriage when she found out that Marina intended to run away to Gretnagreen. Before that she tried to tell Colin that Marina didn't love him and was only using him. Tried to get her mother to stop it before it went to far. Tried to get Marina to not go after him. She tried the other routes. 

Honestly, if Pen didn't come from a family that had the appearance of wealth and privilege and instead came from a lower class with less wealth, everyone would be praising her for striking out at the rich.

With Eloise, Pen had 2 options:

Expose herself.

Write something nasty about Eloise.

She protected herself.....something no one else is doing or has done. And she still chose a narrative that will allow the Bridgerton family to save face. Eloise Cavorting with political radicals is easier to sweep under the rug over Eloise spending time with a man below her station, alone. Was she wrong...yes. Will she need a whole redemption arc... no. I also think that she knew, in the argument, some of the things she said was wrong and went to find Eloise to apologize....then overhearing Colin just sent her over the edge.

 

[SonofaBiscuit]

Simone Ashley was wonderfully cast as Kate. I love that she is tall - gosh, the dresses are beautiful on her. And she’s gorgeous of course.

Kate and Anthony’s conversation before their final dance was very cute. He tries to take leave, but she throws him a lifeline. He checks her recovery by holding those three fingers up (and the spinning them around to reveal four, ha). The tongue click as if to say “ah damn, you tried.” It’s refreshing to see the fun side of Anthony.

Gah, you could see Anthony at the end of the dance fighting his desire to do more (jaw clenched jaw clench), but realizing a room full of people are watching. And the dance ends, and he can’t take his eyes off Kate or let go of her hand 😩

I don’t know if we were meant to see the Queen’s little nod to him as she exits as her saying “yes, I understand now, and you have my approval,” but that’s how I interpreted it.

Thanks a lot show, I have had Miley Cyrus’ “Wrecking Ball” in my head for two days now.

I hope this isn’t a dumb question, but is it the expectation now that as head of the Bridgerton family, Anthony (and Kate duh) will live full-time with his mother and unmarried siblings?

[bijoux]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

About colors in the show:

Throughout the series the gowns and flowers were mostly at the low-wave length end of the spectrum, featuring shades of purples and pinks. Even the rubies are barely lit so that they appear as "cool" reds rather than fiery.
Then during the wedding, the emerald-green-stoned bangles enter the picture–—a mid-range color if one is thinking ROYGBIV. And, of course, green is symbolic of new growth in spring from the lifeless browns and grays of winter. 
Finally, when Kate and Anthony make their mutual declarations of love, Kate is wearing a high-wave length orange.
ETA: I think in the first episode Kate was going to wear an orange gown and changed out of it? Also, who are familiar with either Indian or British color symbolism may wish to correct my interpretations, or at least shed different light on them (heh, a different color spectrum of light? too many possible puns and double entendres).

...

The only other shoe I expected to drop ...

I didn't think about where colors fell on the spectrum, just that Kate was freer and more open. It was also supported by her different hairstyle at both the ball and later at Aubrey Hall.

The comment about a shoe dropping reminded me that I expected some resolution to the Queen's beef with Mary. I guess the necklaces she decided to send over meant she was over that as well as the aborted wedding.

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I suspect Pen felt obligated to totally put the kibosh on Eloise's developing relationship with Theo. Pen probably felt responsible for Eloise meeting him in the first place in her pursuit of the identity of Lady W, and could not bear the thought of Eloise being "ruined" by such a relationship. 
Pen using a similar approach to "protect" Colin last season by outing Marina's pregnancy was motivated by jealousy. 
But this time I think she meant well. She was taking the advice of seamstress Madame Delacroix.

I do think Penelope saw this as a lesser evil but she has the subtlety of a sledgehammer. Frankly, I expected Wrecking Ball would start playing for her.

[bijoux]

5 minutes ago, SonofaBiscuit said:

Simone Ashley was wonderfully cast as Kate. I love that she is tall - gosh, the dresses are beautiful on her. And she’s gorgeous of course.

Kate and Anthony’s conversation before their final dance was very cute. He tries to take leave, but she throws him a lifeline. He checks her recovery by holding those three fingers up (and the spinning them around to reveal four, ha). The tongue click as if to say “ah damn, you tried.” It’s refreshing to see the fun side of Anthony.

Gah, you could see Anthony at the end of the dance fighting his desire to do more (jaw clenched jaw clench), but realizing a room full of people are watching. And the dance ends, and he can’t take his eyes off Kate or let go of her hand 😩

I don’t know if we were meant to see the Queen’s little nod to him as she exits as her saying “yes, I understand now, and you have my approval,” but that’s how I interpreted it.

Thanks a lot show, I have had Miley Cyrus’ “Wrecking Ball” in my head for two days now.

I hope this isn’t a dumb question, but is it the expectation now that as head of the Bridgerton family, Anthony (and Kate duh) will live full-time with his mother and unmarried siblings?

I love so much of what was done with Kate. How she always stands out with her height and bold colors. And never makes herself lesser or smaller in any way.

Anthony looked ridiculously gorgeous and doable in the 'how many fingers' scene. And Kate's smirk when he held up four. Oh, you think you're do cute? Yeah. Along with what you mentions about the end of the dance, there's also inhaling. Again. That nove with their hands coming down between them felt very Bollywood. Am I correct in seeing that connection? Just masks symbolically falling down. And then there are Kate's huge teary eyes.

The expectation would be for Anthony and Kate to take over the house. His mother and siblings could remain with them od move. Given Kate and Anthony's current state, I imagine they're house hunting if they haven't moved during the honey moon already.

[Ohiopirate02]

8 minutes ago, SonofaBiscuit said:

 

I hope this isn’t a dumb question, but is it the expectation now that as head of the Bridgerton family, Anthony (and Kate duh) will live full-time with his mother and unmarried siblings?

Some estates had dower houses where the dowager duchess, countess, viscountess, etc. would move.  Anthony loves and respects Voilet, so he would not make her move out.  But, Kate is now the lady of the house and now has the responsibility of it which does include the remaining siblings until they marry.   In Regency England,  children belong to their father and his heir.  The mother has no legal rights.   This is why Portia was scheming to make sure the new Featherington heir did not marry Cressida.  

[Roseanna]

28 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

And I don't get why she needs to be redeemed. Or why people are calling Pen a narcissist and self-centered. Pen spent her entire life being bullied and found a way to get back at those bullying her. Even in the Marina situation, she didn't out Marina's secret until she felt backed into a corner, and Marina talked down to her and treated her like a child...still she only did it to protect Colin for a loveless marriage when she found out that Marina intended to run away to Gretnagreen. Before that she tried to tell Colin that Marina didn't love him and was only using him. Tried to get her mother to stop it before it went to far. Tried to get Marina to not go after him. She tried the other routes. 

Honestly, if Pen didn't come from a family that had the appearance of wealth and privilege and instead came from a lower class with less wealth, everyone would be praising her for striking out at the rich.

With Eloise, Pen had 2 options:

Expose herself.

Write something nasty about Eloise.

She protected herself.....something no one else is doing or has done. And she still chose a narrative that will allow the Bridgerton family to save face. Eloise Cavorting with political radicals is easier to sweep under the rug over Eloise spending time with a man below her station, alone. Was she wrong...yes. Will she need a whole redemption arc... no. I also think that she knew, in the argument, some of the things she said was wrong and went to find Eloise to apologize....then overhearing Colin just sent her over the edge.

 

People who have bullied Pen are her own family members but she haven't fought back against them. Instead, she harmed Daphne who (if I remember right) had never done anything to her. Daphne's only "sin" was that she was the model of a society belle - a woman Pen couldn't be.

Pen doesn't "strike against the rich", she strikes publicly at the back of women whose confidence she has gained privately or about whom the servants are gossiping. She never questions the society where women and men's morality is measured according to different standards. In fact, she has never revealed men's affairs nor warned women to accept such men as their husbands.      

[bijoux]

Just now, Ohiopirate02 said:

Some estates had dower houses where the dowager duchess, countess, viscountess, etc. would move.  Anthony loves and respects Voilet, so he would not make her move out.  But, Kate is now the lady of the house and now has the responsibility of it which does include the remaining siblings until they marry.   In Regency England,  children belong to their father and his heir.  The mother has no legal rights.   This is why Portia was scheming to make sure the new Featherington heir did not marry Cressida.  

And robbed Prudence of a new mama. LOL You just reminded me of Cressida at the edges of the ballroom with a sourpuss twice in this episode. I'm not sure what she was first reacting to, maybe Colin dancing with Penelope. The second time was hearing the Queen arranging Edwina a date with Prince Frederic. It was hilarious. The actress really leaned into it.

[Door County Cherry]

57 minutes ago, SonofaBiscuit said:

I hope this isn’t a dumb question, but is it the expectation now that as head of the Bridgerton family, Anthony (and Kate duh) will live full-time with his mother and unmarried siblings?

I think for TV purposes, they'll likely keep them all in the same house.  I think normally, there might be separation because Kate is supposed to take over as lady of the house from Violet but for many reasons, it could be a problem to have the new boss and old boss both around. 

Spoiler

In the book, I believe everyone else moved out and Anthony and Kate took over the residences.

 

[dubbel zout]

On 3/26/2022 at 2:04 AM, Door County Cherry said:

his scene with Gregory was awesome

It was perfection.

I don't care that Simon wasn't at functions he should have attended. This wasn't his story.

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

The only other shoe I expected to drop that never did was to hear him retching out the window because, wow, that looked like a crap-ton of psilocybin. 

I thought for sure Benedict would fall out of the window. His position was precarious!

This season was a lot warmer in tone that the first one, and I liked that a lot. The Bridgerton family scenes really made the show special for me.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

On 3/26/2022 at 2:04 AM, Door County Cherry said:

Goodness.  First Penelope damaged Marina's reputation.  And now her best friend's.  I'm glad when Eloise was yelling at her, she mentioned Marina and called her out on it.  But I just don't know how the character recovers?  Although maybe the writers don't think she needs to since they seem to focus a lot on her and her POV more than almost any other character consistently.

That seemed a little like fan service to me. While I can understand why Eloise was upset with Penelope, if I found out a woman was planning to trick my brother in such a profoundly dishonest way, I don't think I would be angry with the person who exposed that dishonesty. It struck me as a wrong note coming from Eloise, though if Marina herself found out, I could understand why she would be upset with Penelope. 

Anyway, once again, I give them credit for putting enough nuance in these situations to make both positions understandable. Pen was not wrong that for all that Eloise is cosplaying radical politics, she seems to be pretty unwilling to give up the privileges of her upbringing to do anything about it. And Penelope warned Eloise a number of times that she needed to stop visiting Theo or she was going to get discovered.

All of that being said, Eloise's anger that Penelope was hiding this from her - and exposed Eloise to ruin - was understandable. Madame Delacroix suggested that Pen come forward and she dismissed the idea but she could have at least told Eloise before she revealed her secret. So she's not innocent there.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

I rewatched a couple of last season’s episodes including the first one and I was startled to see that Pen as Lady Whistledown wrote that Colin Bridgerton was sweeping Marina off her feet. It seemed out of character for Pen who has always crushed on Colin. But we as the audience didn’t know who Lady Whistledown was at the time and I guess the writers were trying to keep people from guessing correctly too early?

Given her name is Penelope Featherington who writes with a quill pen, I guess they planned for her to be Lady Whistledown from the beginning. But maybe her character got a bit of a makeover as they penned the episodes until we are now left with a character who is quite complex–—which can be a hallmark of great writing, but also runs the risk of running amok.

 

3 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I give them credit for putting enough nuance in these situations to make both positions understandable. Pen was not wrong that for all that Eloise is cosplaying radical politics, she seems to be pretty unwilling to give up the privileges of her upbringing to do anything about it. And Penelope warned Eloise a number of times that she needed to stop visiting Theo or she was going to get discovered.

All of that being said, Eloise's anger that Penelope was hiding this from her - and exposed Eloise to ruin - was understandable. Madame Delacroix suggested that Pen come forward and she dismissed the idea but she could have at least told Eloise before she revealed her secret. So she's not innocent there.

Yes. Exactly.

[ursula]

21 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

I don't think people are being very fair to Penelope. Was she right with what she did with Eloise, no. But its not fair to say that it didn't weigh on her, and that it was an easy thing to do.

Penelope does bad things and feels bad.

My sympathy for her victims >>>>>> her feelings.

21 hours ago, Atlanta said:

I agree LadyChaos. Penelope has been in a tough spot from beginning of season one. Everyone but Eloise ignores her, and she probably wouldn't mind (she's pretty much left to her own devices and that gives her freedom), but it hurts when Colin does. She's been crushing on him for years and years. 

Penelope's unrequited feelings aren't a debt that she's owed. 

 

7 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

This makes for a pretty good Machiavellian villain, who has harboured a secret hatred and jealousy for the perfect Bs and delights in seeing them get knocked off their pedestal.  But it doesn't make much sense for a sweet girl who loves Eloise like a sister and wants nothing more than to marry Colin.

Or maybe... the Sweet Girl is a mask. Her "love" for Eloise is mixed with no small amount of envy and resentment, and "wanting to marry Colin" is entitlement/Nice Girl Syndrome. 

 

 

6 hours ago, Pestilentia said:

I think that is probably how she rationalizes it in her little Jan Brady/middle child syndrome pea brain head, but it does not absolve her of her sins, which are many. She is selfish and narcissistic, and that outburst at Eloise was mean.   And no matter the genesis of her pathology, she is well able to move past childhood hurts and behave respectably yet chooses not to even when it hurts her best friend. I think she is vile. Maybe not fishead pie levels of vile, but vile. Not much worse than a liar.

Well said.

Edited March 27, 2022 by ursula

[Door County Cherry]

1 hour ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

That seemed a little like fan service to me. While I can understand why Eloise was upset with Penelope, if I found out a woman was planning to trick my brother in such a profoundly dishonest way, I don't think I would be angry with the person who exposed that dishonesty. It struck me as a wrong note coming from Eloise, though if Marina herself found out, I could understand why she would be upset with Penelope. 

Except in choosing to do it the way she did, it also made a public fool of Colin and I'd wonder why she couldn't just tell me so I could tell my brother. Given Eloise's interests and Colin still caring about Marina, it seems like they had more sympathy for Marina's circumstances than Penelope....which is Penelope's worst fear. 

[ursula]

3 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Instead, saving Colin from a marriage based on the false premises could be better defended although even then Pen could have found better means to do it. But based on how Colin behaved when he met Marina, he still cared for her after a year, maybe their marriage could have succeeded and he would have forgiven her after understanding her motives - it can be in order to prevent it why Pen did her revelation publicly. 

That's literally why she did it. She "tested" Colin by telling him that Marina was in love with another man, not him, and when Colin said "I don't care", Penelope knew there was a real chance that she would tell Colin about the baby, and he still won't care. 

She didn't out Marina to Whistledon to save Colin. She outted Marina to stop her crush from slipping out of her grasp. 

1 hour ago, Roseanna said:

Pen doesn't "strike against the rich", she strikes publicly at the back of women whose confidence she has gained privately or about whom the servants are gossiping. She never questions the society where women and men's morality is measured according to different standards. In fact, she has never revealed men's affairs nor warned women to accept such men as their husbands.      

This though. 

And the "bullied who turns bully" sounds like a Villain Origin story to me, anyway.

[ursula]

2 hours ago, SonofaBiscuit said:

I hope this isn’t a dumb question, but is it the expectation now that as head of the Bridgerton family, Anthony (and Kate duh) will live full-time with his mother and unmarried siblings?

Unmarried siblings, yes. Mom - no. She can stay. But as the dowager Viscountess, she has lots of options

Spoiler

and in the books, she moves out. Her swan song ball is what starts Benedict's story.

 

12 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I can't remember if the show gave a direct reason why he was not attending the failed wedding, but I would tend to doubt that any explanation would be believable. Anthony was his close school buddy, is his brother-in-law, and it's a party thrown by the Queen. He would basically have to be dead or out of the country to justify not being there.

They should have said he had urgent business in the Americas and tied him to the Featherington plot. Either Colin asks him directly or Simon casually mentions in his letter that the Featherington mines are a dud. 

Covid restrictions are gradually being lifted so the restricted shooting sets of the past are going. So maybe Rege will be more flexible for appearances in future seasons. 

If he's not, the practical solution is to cut down on Daphne's episodes which is a shame. But makes sense. She was in this season for Eloise's debut. In the next few seasons, the focus will be on her brothers.

Edited March 27, 2022 by ursula

[Miss Slay]

Season 2 was certainly different than season 1. I understand that they can't tell the same story over again but I think season 1 did a better job of developing full 3 dimensional storylines for the other characters outside of the main pairing. I think what happened is they don't want to delve too much into them before we get to their books.

I did like Anthony and Kate - but I hate to compare but they were no Daphne and Simone. And it is simply a story preference, I liked the Daphne and Simon storyline better. That said, the actors did a good job. Anthony remains one of the most irritating characters I have ever come across and he remained consistent in season 2.

Who's story is next Benedict or Collin? The way it's set up it should be Collin. All in all, it was okay, but I'm not sure i'd watch it again the way I did with the first season.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

37 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

Except in choosing to do it the way she did, it also made a public fool of Colin and I'd wonder why she couldn't just tell me so I could tell my brother. Given Eloise's interests and Colin still caring about Marina, it seems like they had more sympathy for Marina's circumstances than Penelope....which is Penelope's worst fear. 

Right, I would understand it if she seemed focused on what the situation did to Colin. But I still wouldn't think all that highly of the woman who planned to trick him, so I wouldn't be talking about how her actions impacted that woman. It just struck me that line was more about playing to the fans who wanted to absolve Marina about her responsibility rather than something a sister would say.

All of that being said, Eloise was very angry so she was probably just throwing everything she could at Penelope. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

39 minutes ago, ursula said:

That's literally why she did it. She "tested" Colin by telling him that Marina was in love with another man, not him, and when Colin said "I don't care", Penelope knew there was a real chance that she would tell Colin about the baby, and he still won't care. 

She didn't out Marina to Whistledon to save Colin. She outted Marina to stop her crush from slipping out of her grasp. 

That's one interpretation but certainly not the only one. Penelope has never had any belief that Colin was in her grasp. But she does consider him a friend and she recognized that it may not be in her friend's best interest for him to begin a marriage where his wife was lying to him and tricking him about her pregnancy.

I do think Penelope should have told him outright rather than to resorting to Lady Whistledown. But the act of exposing Marina was eminently justifiable given what Marina intended to do. It doesn't IMO make her a villain. 

There is also a read where one could say that Marina should thank Lady Whistledown since Marina ended up married to a kind man who cares about her children and who wasn't tricked into marrying her. I would argue Marina is in a better situation with Sir Philip than she would have been with Colin, since the Philip/Marina marriage isn't based on lies and trickery.

12 minutes ago, Miss Slay said:

Who's story is next Benedict or Collin? The way it's set up it should be Collin. All in all, it was okay, but I'm not sure i'd watch it again the way I did with the first season.

I feel like they did a pretty decent job setting it up either way. The source material has Benedict as the main character but I would be okay with it being Colin, too.

[shapeshifter]

I'm guessing Benedict is done with being a painter?
His figure painting was okay, but clearly meant to convey to us that he's no great master.
And then then later the camera zoomed in on him closing his paint box.

[libgirl2]

36 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I'm guessing Benedict is done with being a painter?
His figure painting was okay, but clearly meant to convey to us that he's no great master.
And then then later the camera zoomed in on him closing his paint box.

I don't think so, but I guess we will see. 

[Nire]

I really hope Benedict is next.  That will also give them a season to restore Penelope and Eloise's relationships.    

I was disappointed that Francesca vanished again.  I feel like if they can't have the actress around next season they should recast.  So far she's pretty much just been an extra.  

Having read the book there were things I wished had been included but overall I enjoyed this season.  

[quarks]

7 minutes ago, Nire said:

I was disappointed that Francesca vanished again.  I feel like if they can't have the actress around next season they should recast.  So far she's pretty much just been an extra.  

 

We've seen so little of her that I'm not sure I would even notice if they recast her.

[DearEvette]

9 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

I find the whole Lady Whistledown thing to be a major writing fail.  Aside from how unbelievable it is that a sheltered girl who doesn't even know where babies come from is capable of writing bon mots full of sexual innuendo, as well as galavanting around town unsupervised at all hours of the night, the writers seem to be unaware that they have written Penelope as a total sociopath.  Like, they seem to think LW is the equivalent of Fashion Police (making snarky remarks about clothing), when she is actually more like TMZ (posting pictures of celebrity corpses or whatever).  The main problem is that they want Pen to remain a viable Bridgerton friend and love interest, while also using LW to continually almost to ruin the B's for the sake of maximum drama.  If they were going to make Pen the big bad and have the B's band together to ruin her that would be one thing, but it doesn't appear that's where it's heading.

We are supposed to sincerely believe that Eloise is Pen's best friend and that she truly loves Colin, yet in the space of two seasons she has posted malicious poison pen gossip about Daphne, Colin and Eloise that has nearly caused the ruin of this family all for her own financial gain.  There was zero reason for Pen to write her hit piece on Daphne, who as far as we are aware had never been mean to Pen.  Not to mention that Pen would have been well aware that ruining Daphne would have ruined Eloise and the other B sisters, but she clearly didn't give a fuck about that.

Pen tried to justify the outing of Marina by saying she had no choice but her actions show that is not true.  She could have told Colin directly, or spoken to any other Bridgerton to pass on the info so they could stop Colin running off to get married.  We know she has no problem sneaking out at night and being alone with men, so she was clearly capable of providing the necessary information discretely.  But instead she went nuclear and nearly ruined both families.

Then, the Eloise thing.  Yikes.  Pen proved herself to be a completely selfish coward here.  Her claim that the Queen wouldn't believe her was total bullshit, especially since we know Pen was on her list of suspects.  Would the Queen really believe that Pen would fall on her sword with a fake confession and risk the Queen's wrath to protect her friend?  Even if the Queen did think that, all Pen had to do was prove herself by writing a LW column in front of the Queen and then have it printed as proof of her identity.  I didn't have a problem with Eloise invading Pen's privacy by ransacking her room because Pen's actions as LW have proven that she doesn't give a fuck about anyone else's privacy.

Also, Pen was totally gaslighting Eloise by blaming her for the for the column.  She could have confessed to the Queen, confessed to Eloise, or written something less awful than what she did.  But nope, she chose to betray her best friend and cry her crocodile tears.  Also, Pen's outrage at Eloise's activities rings pretty hollow when she regularly sneaks out alone with her male driver, goes to seedy parts of town, and is alone again with the various men at the print shop.  If any other person in the ton had been doing this I'm sure LW would be implying they were a prostitute or something.

Let's not forget that at the start of the season it has been 10 months and the Featheringtons were suffering massive financial hardship and had no idea when the new LF was going to arrive to "save" them.  Pen is apparently sitting on stacks of cash from her LW endeavours but she never considers coming clean to her mother and offering up any of the money to help her family.

This makes for a pretty good Machiavellian villain, who has harboured a secret hatred and jealousy for the perfect Bs and delights in seeing them get knocked off their pedestal.  But it doesn't make much sense for a sweet girl who loves Eloise like a sister and wants nothing more than to marry Colin.

I love this entire post.  This is 100% where I was at last season with Pen and now they've doubled down on her this season.  And yet, I feel like the show wants us to feel sympathetic for her unrequited love for Colin and root for her and co-sign her actions because she is a supposed underdog.

[magdalene]

I meant to watch one episode a week of the second season, ha!  That didn't work out.

I hope we will get to see Anthony and Kate together next season because I did not get enough of them happy with each other, what with all the other plots going on at the same time.

Benedict and his lop-sided charm have grown on me - I am guessing his love story is next?

I am not looking forward to Colin and Pen at all. They have zero chemistry with each other and the Colin actor to me has zero sex appeal. I wish they would recast him.

I am scratching my head as to who would be good for Eloise. In a way she and Pen were a couple and it certainly was a nasty break-up.

I like both Pen and Eloise but they also irritate me for a variety of reasons.  Eloise is obviously right that women are not treated fairly but the way she goes about her rebellion is eye roll inducing to me. She needs to appreciate how privileged she is. Dear Eloise, if you think you have it bad take a long hard look at the female servants in your house  who clean your fire places and scrub your floors. As for Penelope, if this is how you treat your friends when the chips are down - how far do you go with your enemies?

I am disappointed that conman Lord Featherington was sent packing as I found the actor quite attractive.

 

[dubbel zout]

9 minutes ago, magdalene said:

I am scratching my head as to who would be good for Eloise.

I think that man her mom brought to one of the balls for her had potential, but Eloise barely gave him a chance.

9 minutes ago, magdalene said:

Eloise is obviously right that women are not treated fairly but the way she goes about her rebellion is eye roll inducing to me.

She's one of those people whom you agree with in principle but is so obnoxious about her views that you disagree for that reason alone. I really wish they'd dial back her attitude. When she was younger it was more bearable, but now that she's older and about to have her season, it's super irritating. I'm sure there were men who wanted their wife to be a real partner, not some simpering twit. Eloise needs to be open to finding her match.

[Enero]

@Door County Cherry and @bubble sparkly have captured my thoughts on Penelope much better than I could articulate. Thus, I have nothing more to add on her except at this point, I do not care about her journey and/or whether she finds love or not. Same with Colin. If the next season will be about his journey (or Benedict for that matter), I will pass. Neither actor has the charisma of RJP or JB and just aren't interesting to watch. Perhaps they will rise to the occasion once it's their turn to shine, but right now I can't see it.

The romance between Kate/Anthony was beautiful AND hot. They were definitely hotter than Daphne and Simon. I liked the angst, the stolen looks and touches. The slow burn was so well done as was the pay off. Great casting of Kate (and Edwina). That's one thing this show does well, is casting the main love interests. Thus far, the main couples in both seasons have not just had chemistry, but have smoldered. Many shows are not that lucky with casting chemistry. So good job to the casting directors etc. 

Loved loved loved the color of the Sharma ladies' gowns not only did the rich colors align with their Indian heritage, but looked absolutely stunning on the actresses. Speaking of the Sharma's I hope SA will be back next season. I'd really like to see more of Kate and Anthony's marriage.  I wonder if the series will eventually reveal if Edwina finds a mate. I know that the story revolves around the Bridgertons. So if she ends up marrying the Queen's nephew (or some other guy) we'll likely only hear about it in passing. Though there is no rush perse for her to find someone now that Anthony and Kate are married, and he is likely taking care of her and her mother, it would be nice to see where she ended up after all the drama.

Though I didn't miss Simon, it was odd him not being around for some of the balls and most especially for Anthony's wedding. It'll be interesting to see how they handle RP's absence in future seasons. I guess it could be pretty simple since Daphne didn't get much screentime this season and that will likely continue as other stories are told. But if the focus shifted back to her it will be difficult to make it make sense, that Simon is never at any of the family weddings or balls or just visiting the Bridgerton estate from the countryside. 

I'm glad Lady Featherstone, got the cousin out of their life, but hope she learns from this near fiasco and invest the money she has properly.  But knowing the way the family is written, always being on the cusp of ruin, I'm betting there will be more unpleasant drama ahead for Ms. Featherstone and her daughters.

Though I enjoyed Kate/Anthony more than Simon/Daphne, I'd say last season was better. It had more interesting stories going with the supporting characters than this season, which made the show better overall. The Kate/Anthony drama almost solely carried my interest this season because it was the the only storyline that was really good. I found that nearly all  of the B and C stories etc. this season were boring and mostly filler. I was hoping they'd do more with Marina, being as her story was one of the more interesting B/C storylines last season, but no such luck. Still a good season though. 

Side note: I love the Queen's wigs, but have to wonder how long it takes costuming to install a 4ft wig and how does GR hold her head up during her scenes with such an extravagant head piece on her head? Lol.  The pieces look very heavy. 

Edited March 27, 2022 by Enero

[Chaser]

I’ve seen Eloise referred to as “not like other girls” x10 and that’s a big turn ugh for me. It’s insulting to other women. I hope they pull it back because outside of that I really like Eloise. I would love the opposites attract trope for her and have her fall for a strong silent regal type. 

This season showed me that revealing Lady W so early hurt Pen as a character. I wish we had gotten to know Pen outside of her alter ego first. 

[dubbel zout]

46 minutes ago, Enero said:

I'm glad Lady Featherstone, got the cousin out of their life, but hope she learns from this near fiasco and invest the money she has properly.

I wonder if now that she has some real control over her family's finances, she'll be able to have some success. It's the men in her life who have screwed her over.

[ursula]

44 minutes ago, Chaser said:

This season showed me that revealing Lady W so early hurt Pen as a character. I wish we had gotten to know Pen outside of her alter ego first. 

IMO the problem is that the show is still trying to stick to bookPenelope's story/characterization when season 1 already pushed that past the point of no return. If they lean into the portrayal of Pen/Whistledown as the series's villain, it would be much tighter.

3 hours ago, Nire said:

I really hope Benedict is next.  That will also give them a season to restore Penelope and Eloise's relationships.    

The idea of a 'redemption arc" for Penelope literally has me breaking out in hives.

 

 

[peridot]

It was hard for me to get into Anthony and Kate's relationship.  They kept creating their own misery, and I just found myself rolling my eyes a lot.  In the end, I felt bad for Anthony because he kept putting himself out there and kept being rejected.  I hoped he would find someone that wouldn't make him miserable.

I was cursing Colin for how he treated the ex-boxer, but I'm glad it was just a ruse.  I really hated that he insulted Penelope in front of his friends like that.  Portia just skates by consequences.  It was terrible that she participated in the conning of her peers, but it somehow turns into her being a good mother and looking out for her girls?

It was kind of terrible that Eloise said that Penelope may have gossiped before, but she wasn't listening until now.  The friendship between Eloise and Penelope never did seem equal.  The "just jealous" thing Penelope spit out just seemed like something to say when Eloise said she felt pity for her.  Everyone does seem to punch down on Penelope, and she uses her anger to justify writing unwanted truths in her paper.  It's hard to root for anyone here.

[nara]

On 3/25/2022 at 6:03 PM, Harvey said:

Lady Featherington continues to be the best part of this show. She was so badass here, once again. I love her  creativity and how she finds solutions to these difficult  situations.

Polly Walker plays this type of character well . I was getting flashbacks to Rome.

On 3/26/2022 at 5:44 PM, Atlanta said:

I agree LadyChaos. Penelope has been in a tough spot from beginning of season one. Everyone but Eloise ignores her, and she probably wouldn't mind (she's pretty much left to her own devices and that gives her freedom), but it hurts when Colin does. She's been crushing on him for years and years. I liked her and the modiste collaborating. I'm not saying what she did was right, but I understand why. Eloise needs to remember she's a valued and loved member of her rich family and Pen, not so much.

I’m not sure Eloise was ever a particularly good friend to Pen. Pen is more like her audience. Eloise doesn’t seem to notice Pen’s problems and only talks about her own.

12 hours ago, Roseanna said:

How on earth did she "mean well" by publicly ruining her best friend's reputation? (And was it really so bad if Eloise and Theo who had much common had fallen in love? They could have eloped and taken the ship to America.)   

Instead, saving Colin from a marriage based on the false premises could be better defended although even then Pen could have found better means to do it. But based on how Colin behaved when he met Marina, he still cared for her after a year, maybe their marriage could have succeeded and he would have forgiven her after understanding her motives - it can be in order to prevent it why Pen did her revelation publicly. 

I do think Pen meant to find a way to prove that Eloise is not LW, but she really could have just written some rude remarks about what an awkward debutant she is , rather than something really dangerous for Eloise

[shapeshifter]

20 minutes ago, nara said:

I do think Pen meant to find a way to prove that Eloise is not LW, but she really could have just written some rude remarks about what an awkward debutant she is , rather than something really dangerous for Eloise

I've interpreted Pen having altruistic motives when she wrote about Eloise going to see Theo, because Eloise refused to listen when Pen said Eloise must stop seeing Theo, and so Pen saw this outing Eloise's visits to the print shop as a way of killing 2 birds with one stone.
That is, it would prove that Eloise was not Lady W., and  make her break off the friendship with Theo, which was bound to get her in trouble. 
Does Pen ever tell Eloise that when they have their final fight?
Maybe not? I don't recall.
Regardless, maybe at some point next season Eloise will tell Pen she forgives her and thank her for (whether on purpose or inadvertently) preventing her from ruining her life. 

[ursula]

One more thing: The ending with Eloise knowing the truth about Penelope but Penelope still feeling emboldened to publish as Lady Whistledown is literally unexplainable.

[bijoux]

5 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I think that man her mom brought to one of the balls for her had potential, but Eloise barely gave him a chance.

She was an annoying little twat at that ball particularly but I applauded her put down about him not putting down every other woman to compliment one. Good on you, Eloise.

Eloise's so called activism is annoying and performative, and very much like Colin's tales about Greece. It's all, no one has every had this thought or experience until me right now, I am an original. It's ridiculous and completely teenager like. It's also why it's hard for me to imagine anyone but Benedict heading next season's romance. He has his issues and doubts but is the only sibling to feel like a grown up.

[Chicago Redshirt]

15 minutes ago, ursula said:

One more thing: The ending with Eloise knowing the truth about Penelope but Penelope still feeling emboldened to publish as Lady Whistledown is literally unexplainable.

I'm not sure what is unexplainable about it.

That Pen is willing to resurrect the persona after Eloise read her for filth? That Pen isn't worried about Eloise exposing her secret identity?

I just read those things as Pen being a) addicted to the power of being LW b) originally willing to put the LW persona aside and then reversing her decision as a result of Eloise lashing out and/or c) confident (or perhaps overly so) that despite Eloise knowing, she is not going to rat her out to the Queen, the public at large or either the Bridgertons or the Featheringtons. 

Although I would love a scene where all the Bridgertons line up in alphabetical order to whip her ass for the effect she has had on their happiness...

[Door County Cherry]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Regardless, maybe at some point next season Eloise will tell Pen she forgives her and thank her for (whether on purpose or inadvertently) preventing her from ruining her life. 

I hope not.  Penelope was the big threat and she uses "someone else would figure it out" to justify it to herself but it doesn't make her justifications or the way she chose to do things right.  

5 hours ago, Enero said:

Though I didn't miss Simon, it was odd him not being around for some of the balls and most especially for Anthony's wedding.

I always assume that travel is such an ordeal back then that Simon felt he couldn't take the time it'd take to travel to be away from his lands.  

And as a reminder---

In case you've forgotten, we have a Lady Whisteldown thread which is another place we can discuss Penelope's actions.  

 

[Roseanna]

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I'm guessing Benedict is done with being a painter?
His figure painting was okay, but clearly meant to convey to us that he's no great master.

Nobody is a master, still less a great one, when one just begins something. It takes years of practice whatever the field is. If Benedict stops painting just because his brother paid that he was accepted in the academy, he is no good.

I didn't particularly like that they made Benedict to have sex with the artists' model. When they presented her also as an artist, I expected that she was given an independent role, not that traditional one "she is a nude model, so she sleeps with artists". And I suppose that Benedict can't marry a woman of that kind but some virgin to whom he is the first man.

[ursula]

41 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I'm not sure what is unexplainable about it.

That Pen is willing to resurrect the persona after Eloise read her for filth? That Pen isn't worried about Eloise exposing her secret identity?

 

(I thought that was pretty obvious.)

[Roseanna]

10 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

she does consider him a friend and she recognized that it may not be in her friend's best interest for him to begin a marriage where his wife was lying to him and tricking him about her pregnancy. 

What right has Penelope to believe that she knows what is Colin's "best interest"? 

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I've interpreted Pen having altruistic motives when she wrote about Eloise going to see Theo, because Eloise refused to listen when Pen said Eloise must stop seeing Theo, and so Pen saw this outing Eloise's visits to the print shop as a way of killing 2 birds with one stone.
That is, it would prove that Eloise was not Lady W., and  make her break off the friendship with Theo, which was bound to get her in trouble. 
 

I don't believe that Pen had altruistic motives at all but she only thought to save herself. Lady W.  gives her power over people and she enjoys it.

Let's think about the similar situations in the present: you are teenagers and you know that your sister is using drugs and isn't listening to you, are you telling it to her parents or rector? Or your best friend is seeing a "bad boy" in secret and she isn't listening to you, are you telling it to everybody in the school because it's "to her own good" to make her stop the relationship?   

[ouinason]

If Pen were really trying to ruin Eloise she would have written about Eloise spending time alone with a man from the lower classes, not her going to some rallies.  She knew two big secrets and she chose to write about the one that would... well, honestly, the one that wasn't going to raise as many eyebrows.  I mean, anyone who had spent more than 15 seconds with Eloise would not be surprised that she might go to those "radical" meetings.  

Pen DID NOT make any insinuations about Eloise and Theo, and she WAS NOT the only person who knew about Eloise being down there.  The Queen knew because her servant knew, and if a servant knows?  It's only a matter of time before everyone knows.  Not to mention that the dumb girl wasn't even really trying to hide it!  Eloise was, and probably still is, one stupid hug in the street from being sent away to live in Italy or something to spare her younger siblings being ruined by association with her.

Not commenting on whether Pen was wrong or right or whatever, just pointing out how stupid Eloise is.

[Pestilentia]

18 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

I don't get why she needs to be redeemed. Or why people are calling Pen a narcissist and self-centered. Pen spent her entire life being bullied and found a way to get back at those bullying her.

Well, boo hoo Pen, your "entire" life wasn't perfect, all 18 years of it. And are we really saying she is justified in her behavior? She "found a way to get back"? Like that's a good thing?

Pen is a child meddling in adult affairs of which she has no real understanding. She is amusing herself by playing a role that actively ruins lives- she's precocious and entitled and has zero concern how her actions affect other people in a real world way.

She's sitting on money that her family desperately needed, and why? Because Pen is all about Pen being smarter, sneakier, more informed, and if anyone gets hurt in the process then she feels like the winner.  She's flitting about like a bumblebee causing chaos here, doubt, there, distrust to the left- she's making messes of people's lives all in her little game of stirring up shit just for fun.

It's not as if she has a goal, or an end game of how she expects her LW nonsense to play out. She's not working to save money to enable a dream, she's playing a game because that's what children do. And bored, entitled children play purely to amuse themselves. She is oblivious. She needs to be brought down and experience consequences.

And in a society when a young woman alone in a room with a young man is scandalous, can someone explain to me how both Pen and Eloise are running all over town alone at all hours? Are there not servants in the houses who notice things like young unmarried girls sneaking out at night and going to dicey areas? Carriages require drivers, horses require care. The "downstairs" staff in both these homes must be deaf and blind.