S01.E08: Tucked Up in Newport

[Brian Cronin]

Just now, sistermagpie said:

That's what it seemed like to me. So it seemed unlikely it was a "married well" situation. Unless, of course, he last saw her when she was young and she then grew up well and married well. So rather than present himself as her butler father he decided to just watch her like a stalker from across the street until she got uncomfortable enough to ask, "CAN I HELP YOU?"

She did seem to know his name, too, which would fit if he was a bio-dad she knew of.

It's so funny how we can instantly come up with these detailed scenarios based on just a moment, but my take is 

1. He was rich, has the kid.

2. He is ruined, leaves his family

3. His family is now poor, perhaps his daughter and wife go back to his wife's maiden name (or maybe she remarries and the daughter is adopted by stepfather?) but had enough connections that the daughter was able to marry well

4. He shows up now and she recognizes his name as her bio father.

5. Hijinks ensue? 

[AntFTW]

8 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

But she didn't know him by sight, so if she's his daughter she probably didn't grow up with him. Definitely has a daughter vibe, though.

6 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

He seemed to think she WOULD, though, right? So I bet she last saw him when she was a kid and he just HOPED that she would still recognize him. 

3 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

That's what it seemed like to me. So it seemed unlikely it was a "married well" situation. Unless, of course, he last saw her when she was young and she then grew up well and married well. So rather than present himself as her butler father he decided to just watch her like a stalker from across the street until she got uncomfortable enough to ask, "CAN I HELP YOU?"

She did seem to know his name, too, which would fit if he was a bio-dad she knew of.

That makes sense!

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Bulldog said:

Peggy's baby is definitely alive.  My guess is her father arranged for him to be taken away. 

 

I've been thinking about this, since it seems that way to me too, but it would be hard to imagine how her father could come back from that. I mean, who kidnaps their child's baby and tells her he's dead--that's beyond putting her through hell. It's really evil. And the guy was formerly enslaved so would have seen children stolen away from parents personally.

[ZeeEnnui]

People that aren't Marion: "That lawyer of yours is super sketchy. He is working that social ladder like its a stripper pole. Watch your back."

Marion: "Red flags. Those would look lovely in my bouquet."

People that aren't Marion: "Are you really that stupid?"

Marion: "Totes. Getting married to a bland dude that I don't know is exactly what weak ass rebel poseurs like myself do to make a point. Viva la revolution!"

Are Mamie or Grace Gummer available next season for a Marian recast so their little sister can explore other off camera career opportunities?

Armstrong should spend her days off working on her nuance. If she had an eeevil mustache, she'd be twirling it. 

Creepy Doll Party lady is all about those sick social burns. LOL.

Peggy's story. Secret marriage and dead baby. Yawn. Also, stop crying Marian. Not everything is about you. 

Don't be jelly, John Q Adams. Do you really want to be f*** buddies with a dude that dresses like an alternate in the Newport Barbershop Quartet? Find you someone whose more into Bachelors than Beards. 

Bertha's Chicken Walk of Shame was hilarious. 

On Law & Order: Gilded Age. It was the Dorota in the Bloomingdales with the deceitful Dixon's charge card. Even Jack McCoy couldn't win a case that quickly. Also, I feel like the writers got super bored with the court case and just wanted George to walk with a preposterously easy solution to his problem. 

I have a theory that next week when Dumdum in Yellow goes to run off with Raikes, it will be George that saves her from ruin as a thank you for being at the right counter at the right time. This will force Agnes to acknowledge the Russells which will cause all kinds of issues next season. But eventually Agnes and Bertha will end up besties trading barbs like the Dowager Countess and Cousin Isobel. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by ZeeEnnui

[Brian Cronin]

Jack's story development does make sense, as most of the Newsies WERE orphans. 

[AntFTW]

45 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Dixon was skimming from George. The stenographer knew he was skimming and was probably helping him in some way. At some point, George wrote that note but it was really about the redesign of his office or something, not about train parts. (George had consulted some contractors that Bertha had used). Nevertheless, the stenographer kept it because she knew it might help Dixon at some point in his skimming.

So basically, they made the stenographer a psychic. I'm curious at how exactly would one predict that they would need a letter like that unless they could reasonably foresee that their skimming would lead to a train accident at some point, and that George would take the blame because they happen to have the right evidence that points to him. Suppose that the skimming was caught in an internal audit rather than a train accident, then what?

That would take incredible foresight and/or plot convenience.

Edited March 15, 2022 by AntFTW

[Brian Cronin]

1 minute ago, AntFTW said:

So basically, they made the stenographer a psychic. I'm curious at how exactly would one predict that they would need a letter like that unless they could reasonably foresee that their skimming would be a train accident at some point in the future and the George would take the blame. Suppose that the skimming was caught in an internal audit rather than a train accident, then what?

That would take incredible foresight and/or plot convenience.

I don't believe they ever intended to frame George for the train accident, just altering anything she could use to explain away skimming and it just turned out that this particular instance was tied to the accident. Dixon obviously wasn't going to come forward with the truth, ya know? 

[AntFTW]

1 minute ago, Brian Cronin said:

I don't believe they ever intended to frame George for the train accident, just altering anything she could use to explain away skimming and it just turned out that this particular instance was tied to the accident. Dixon obviously wasn't going to come forward with the truth, ya know? 

I understand that but I'm thinking what if the skimming was discovered by some other means. They found out that was it him without him having to come forward.

I imagine if she took this particular letter, maybe there were other contingencies she thought about. I just find it odd that she kept this one letter to cover up the skimming. I just think it would take a specific scenario or a specific set of circumstances for this letter to be effective at covering up the skimming.

[Brian Cronin]

11 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I understand that but I'm thinking what if the skimming was discovered by some other means. They found out that was it him without him having to come forward.

I imagine if she took this particular letter, maybe there were other contingencies she thought about. I just find it odd that she kept this one letter to cover up the skimming. I just think it would take a specific scenario or a specific set of circumstances for this letter to be effective at covering up the skimming.

But I don't think it was ONLY this letter, I think she was altering any letter where he authorized funds. It just happened that this letter was then also proof in a big criminal case. I'm sure she's done the same with multiple letters, all to help hide the money skimming, and they never would have been caught had he not been tipped to her connection with Dixon. 

[AZChristian]

I think the letter (or a copy of it for George's files) was something his stenographer remembered and kept handy for whenever it might become useful in the future.  They had no way of knowing there was going to be a train wreck.

Speaking of train wrecks:  Marian.  I think it'll be funny if she and The Rake get married and he pulls the "your husband now owns everything that is yours, and your father left you filthy rich, but it's all mine now" card.  Meanwhile, Aunt Agnes will be REALLY pissed about all the clothes she bought Marian and will demand repayment.  And Aunt Ada will move in with Marian and The Rake until the The Rake bankrupts Marian for real, and they all end up in the poorhouse.

But that's Season Two . . . right?

[chaifan]

I agree, the stenographer conveniently keeping a memo about cutting home design/decorating costs is just too convenient.  That would mean Dixon knew there would be an axle failure and train wreck and subsequent inquiry about the substandard axles.  I think it would have made more sense for the stenographer to be more of a willing participant in the coverup - maybe she and Dixon were an item, Dixon realized that they would trace the cheap axles back to him.  He's discussing this with secret lover stenographer lady (so sorry, I really don't remember her name) and she recalls the design/decorating memo and knows it will take focus off of Dixon and cast blame onto Russell.  But then, that doesn't really make much sense because if Russell goes down, she loses what has to be a really sweet job for a woman at that time.  So yeah, quite a disappointing "reveal" as to who framed Russell for the accident.  It's a shame Turner wasn't somehow involved...

 

27 minutes ago, ZeeEnnui said:

I have a theory that next week when Dumdum in Yellow goes to run off with Raikes, it will be George that saves her from ruin as a thank you for being at the right counter at the right time. This will force Agnes to acknowledge the Russells which will cause all kinds of issues next season. But eventually Agnes and Bertha will end up besties trading barbs like the Dowager Countess and Cousin Isobel. 

OMG.  That would be so wonderful, please TPTB, make that happen!  Of course, we'd have to find room for Ada in there, somehow.  Maybe Ada just gets to hang out and be besties with all the gay guys, and they take her to fabulous dance clubs. 

But seriously, I've also been thinking this for the past few episodes, that George would be the one to out Raikes as a con man, thereby forcing Agnes to recognize the Russells and accept them into society.  But then, Agnes would also be all "I told you so!", even if it was just a lucky guess.  But how much more vague could Aurora have been in her "warning" to Marion???  Granted, all she really saw was Raikes being polite to a woman he was essentially set up on a double date with, it's not like they were frenching in the carriage. 

I tend not to agree with the theories that Marion is actually really rich, and Raikes is lying to her.  If that were the case, it would have made more sense for him to think she had just enough money to live in whatever podunk town they were in, and court her there, instead of following her to NYC to get to Part B of the con. 

Find me a table of one for not liking Peggy's "secret".  Does everyone have to have a secret in this show?  This just was superfluous, in my opinion, and does nothing to move anyone's story forward.  If someone edited out every line about Peggy's secret it would make no difference at all to any other plot line. 

I love how Bertha defines "tenacity" as "choosing to ignore statements of fact when they are inconvenient to acknowledge".  Mrs. Fish:  So, you're husband's in court being accused of killing 5 people.  Bertha:  Nope.  Nope, nothing like that at all is happening, not at all, la la la la la, I can't hear you, la la la la...

In the next episode, more than anything, I really want to see the quadrille outfits and, even more, Gladys's coming out dress.  Bertha has gorgeous clothes, so they will either be drop dead gorgeous, and also on the hubba hubba sexy side, or they will be so god awful gaudy, everyone will laugh Gladys out of the room.  I'm hoping Gladys gets done up in a hot dress, jewels, amazing hair, and no god awful bonnet!

[LADreamr]

40 minutes ago, ZeeEnnui said:

Dumdum in Yellow

Can we just call her that, from now on?

Is it possible for someone to be a canary and a dodo bird, at the same time?

[AntFTW]

11 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I think it would have made more sense for the stenographer to be more of a willing participant in the coverup - maybe she and Dixon were an item, Dixon realized that they would trace the cheap axles back to him.

I agree. I feel like there has to be (or should be at least) something more in it for her.

Having an account at Bloomingdale’s (no matter how high end the store seemed at the time) and letting her use it just doesn’t seem like enough to risk losing her job and possibly going to jail by covering up fraud.

Edited March 15, 2022 by AntFTW

[RachelKM]

11 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I agree, the stenographer conveniently keeping a memo about cutting home design/decorating costs is just too convenient.  That would mean Dixon knew there would be an axle failure and train wreck and subsequent inquiry about the substandard axles.  I

I think the content of the letter directing to cut costs however necessary without specifying the context might have applications wherever it was discovered he'd bought substandard materials or parts.  I doubt she expected the parts would be discovered due to a crash. But i agree that it was a touch convenient. 

[Bulldog]

I assume that the newspapers would have covered George's hearing.  I can't imagine Bertha being too pleased if a story is published stating that they actually did -- gasp! -- look for ways to cut costs when building their house. 

[Jeddah]

Am I the only watching the stenographer drama thinking, “Dorota would never!”

I feel like the wardrobe people weren’t even trying to hide Carrie Coon’s pregnancy. It was way too obvious in the Hamptons scenes.

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

‘Quick! Get rid of Mrs. Russell’! Was the best and funniest part of this episode. 

The last 5 minutes were so funny with the people at the back of the house just blithely going on about their business with Mrs. Russell looking so traumatized.  Chopping the fish, defeathering the chickens?  LOL

2 hours ago, eejm said:

I want to play with George Russell’s hair.  There, I said it.

Let me play with more than that!  😄

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

A lot of people were smart in this episode, while Marian continued to be a complete dolt. Her friend Aurora, who has no reason to want to dislike Raikes, tells Marian she gets a bad vibe from him

Her cousin, no less.

[ajsnaves]

If anyone is curious about the Peshtigo Fire. (PESH-ti-go, not Pesh-TEA-go) As Jack said, it was the same day as the Chicago Fire, so it has been largely forgotten to History. Even though it was deadlier and costlier.  (Of course if you live in NE Wisconsin or the UP, your know all about it, since your Grandfather reminded you regularly when the Chicago Fire came up.  Or was that just me?)  I like Jack and Bridget together.  I hope we get more of them next season.

 

[hoodooznoodooz]

They covet invitations to dinners where you have to crane your neck around candles and contort yourself to converse with one another?

Edited March 15, 2022 by hoodooznoodooz

[Roseanna]

 

4 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

A lot of people were smart in this episode, while Marian continued to be a complete dolt. Her friend Aurora, who has no reason to want to dislike Raikes, tells Marian she gets a bad vibe from him and Marian's response is to decide that means she should marry him. Because that will solve the problem. I can't even...has Marian ever once, when she considered marrying Raikes, thought of something actually relevent? 

 

4 hours ago, Bulldog said:

Marian:  Everybody is warning me against Mr. Raikes, so the only solution is to go ahead and marry him.  I haven't been as hard on her as some commenters, but she really is just plain stupid.  

 

3 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

So Marion's first though after hearing Aurora doesn't trust Raike is decide to marry him. She most definitely has secret money that he wants to get his hands on and he's found a dumb bride that he can probably cheat on and she would believe its a one time mistake. 

 

3 hours ago, buttersister said:

Meanwhile, Aurora says look out for Raikes and Marian's an idiot (ever think of asking why, idiot?). Oh well, maybe they'll marry and then he'll gaslight her and she'll accidentally fall off a cliff/down the stairs. 

Now I must agree: Marian is stupid and stubborn. It would be another matter if she were madly in love, but she just seems to be oppose any advice, even when Aurora isn't prejudiced like Agnes. 

I wonder why Peggy encourages Marian - because she herself married against his father's will? After learning that her husband was uneducated, I begin to understand her father: why wouldn't they wait until they had means to marry?

[KarenX]

So… did McAllister set up Bertha? Did he prank her? Is this a test?

[sheetmoss]

5 hours ago, BeatrixK said:

 

As much as I adore Bertha Russell....isn't John Adams the grandson of Quincy?  Wouldn't THAT be a nice match for her daughter - LOL. I can see her approving of the On Paper part of him....but Girrrrllllllll - gotta dig a little deeper.

 

I missed if John Adams was really wealthy. Yes, he has a name/pedigree, but somebody like Bertha would really want her daughter to really marry into great wealth. 

  That said, I think Bertha would be overjoyed if her daughter married a poor titled Brit  to have a title....

https://thecrownchronicles.co.uk/history/history-posts/conseulo-vanderbilt-duchess-of-marlborough-dollar-princess-american-heiress/

 

Just now, sheetmoss said:

I missed if John Adams was really wealthy. Yes, he has a name/pedigree, but somebody like Bertha would really want her daughter to really marry into great wealth. 

  That said, I think Bertha would be overjoyed if her daughter married a poor titled Brit  to have a title....

The American Heiresses who saved the British Aristocracy: Conseulo Vanderbilt, Duchess of Marlborough

https://thecrownchronicles.co.uk/history/history-posts/conseulo-vanderbilt-duchess-of-marlborough-dollar-princess-american-heiress/

 

 

1 minute ago, sheetmoss said:

I missed if John Adams was really wealthy. Yes, he has a name/pedigree, but somebody like Bertha would really want her daughter to really marry into great wealth.

That said, I think Bertha would be overjoyed if her daughter married a poor titled Brit  to have a title....

The American Heiresses who saved the British Aristocracy: Conseulo Vanderbilt, Duchess of Marlborough

https://thecrownchronicles.co.uk/history/history-posts/conseulo-vanderbilt-duchess-of-marlborough-dollar-princess-american-heiress/

 

 

 

[Brian Cronin]

By the way, a shoutout to Taylor Richardson, whose brogue for Bridget actually sounds natural, unlike Jack's Newsie-talk and Nathan Lane's affected Southern drawl. 

[Bulldog]

4 hours ago, KarenX said:

So… did McAllister set up Bertha? Did he prank her? Is this a test?

I considered that it might have been a set up as well.  I could see it as a way for the old money to put her in her place after she thought she was making inroads into their realm.  But, he seemed genuinely worried at the prospect of Mrs. Astor finding Bertha in the house.  So, I don't really know.  I could see it going either way. 

The more I think about the Agnes/Peggy/Armstrong situation, the more I'm kind of side-eyeing Agnes' excuse for not getting rid of Armstrong.  Just based on their ages, Jack and Bridget could not have worked for Agnes for very long.  So, clearly Agnes is not completely adverse to hiring new servants.  I realize their roles aren't quite as personal as that of a ladies' maid, but still she could train new help if she wanted.  I wonder if Armstrong doesn't have some kind of dirt on Agnes.   

[BeatrixK]

17 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

I considered that it might have been a set up as well.  I could see it as a way for the old money to put her in her place after she thought she was making inroads into their realm.  But, he seemed genuinely worried at the prospect of Mrs. Astor finding Bertha in the house.  So, I don't really know.  I could see it going either way. 

The more I think about the Agnes/Peggy/Armstrong situation, the more I'm kind of side-eyeing Agnes' excuse for not getting rid of Armstrong.  Just based on their ages, Jack and Bridget could not have worked for Agnes for very long.  So, clearly Agnes is not completely adverse to hiring new servants.  I realize their roles aren't quite as personal as that of a ladies' maid, but still she could train new help if she wanted.  I wonder if Armstrong doesn't have some kind of dirt on Agnes.   

This is JUST speculation on my part - but Baranski is SO damned good you just see subtext all over every word of our mouth or every steeled look.

We also know her husband wasn't a nice man.  (Ada said 'He's not the sort of man you want to be alone with.')  Did he die of natural causes - and Armstrong MAY either know about it, or helped?

It just makes no sense, given Agnes' adherence to protocol and decency -- opening mail would be a big no no and Armstrong was already told once to stop stirring shit up...But Agnes just lets it lay.  She has not been built into a character who takes kindly to being disobeyed.

It's unusual, from my perspective, to have her give this a pass - unless there is a reason we don't know yet for her to be keeping Armstrong?

[MissLucas]

Dammit Bertha, have you never read Pride & Prejudice??? Snooping in manors/villas because the owner will arrive the next day always means the owner arrives a day early! (Further proof if any was needed that Miss Austen provides life lessons in abundance.)

[Roseanna]

10 hours ago, dmc said:

George finally outed the scoundrels that besmirched his good name.  This plot could have been more intriguing and suspenseful that I feel it was.  The reveal was lackluster at best.  The woman who played a part in the dastardly deed then apologizes and George essentially threatens her livelihood forever.  I know this woman is essentially a criminal but I hate men threatening women. This is never a win with me.  This show is doubling down on George is ruthless but its more like George doesn't know how to pick his battles and is petty.  The woman is probably going to jail, that's more than enough George.  

I don't mind that George threatened a woman. I find it's foolish to threaten - if you want to revenge, don't tell it your victim beforehand but smile and then strike when she isn't expecting it. 

Before all, George is supposed to be ruthless, but in this season he has only been ruthless to those who have first wronged him. Come on, Fellowes, that's not how ruthless persons behave!

9 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Yes, ultimately it was solved by a wild coincidence.

I would have wanted that George was guilty (he is supposed to be ruthless, after all), but if he wasn't, there should at least been a much better explanation how he was framed.  

9 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

The stenographer knew the letter Dixon claimed was about the railroad stuff was really about something for Bertha. The fact that Dixon was financing someting for steno lady showed Dixon had something shady going on with someone who would have access to letters etc. So they Perry Masoned her into confessing.

 

7 hours ago, RachelKM said:

I think the content of the letter directing to cut costs however necessary without specifying the context might have applications wherever it was discovered he'd bought substandard materials or parts.  I doubt she expected the parts would be discovered due to a crash. But i agree that it was a touch convenient. 

Didn't the letter begin with the name to whom it was written? Didn't it contain even a date when one it was written?

[Haleth]

Wait, that's it wrt George's big scandal?  That was resolved pretty quickly.  Thank goodness for Marian's apparent obsession with shopping at Bloomingdale's on Agnes's dime.

I think the brouhaha with Peggy and Armstrong may actually be a blessing.  Peggy can now focus on her writing for the newspaper (intrepid reporter investigating the Robber Barons?) instead of writing thank you notes for Aunt Agnes.  At least until her husband and/or son turn up. 

Gladys seems to be crushing on John Adams and Oliver is jealous.  Hee!

Oh, Bertha.  It was funny to see the usually so in control Bertha flustered.  I was sure she was going to turn around, march back into the house, and introduce herself to Mrs Astor.  

Marian continues to be an idiot and poorly acted and poorly dressed.  Maybe she is secretly rich but I'm thinking she's going to catch Raikes sooner or later with another richer heiress.  He's as bad as Oliver.  She can't say she wasn't warned.

You all think stalker valet may be the father of the woman he was following?  I thought she looked way too old to be his daughter and more like they were once in love while younger and poorer.  But yes, she is hiding her past.

Quote

Bertha's Chicken Walk of Shame was hilarious

Calling it the chicken walk of shame is hilarious. 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Haleth

[MissLucas]

Forgot to add: Peggy must have been to Hogwarts being able to stash her impressive wardrobe into that tiny suitcase of hers. 

[dmc]

1 hour ago, Roseanna said:

I don't mind that George threatened a woman. I find it's foolish to threaten - if you want to revenge, don't tell it your victim beforehand but smile and then strike when she isn't expecting it. 

Before all, George is supposed to be ruthless, but in this season he has only been ruthless to those who have first wronged him. Come on, Fellowes, that's not how ruthless persons behave!

I would have wanted that George was guilty (he is supposed to be ruthless, after all), but if he wasn't, there should at least been a much better explanation how he was framed.  

 

Didn't the letter begin with the name to whom it was written? Didn't it contain even a date when one it was written?

I mean she’s essentially a nobody whose going to jail.  When important people are concerned with stuff like I this…I always wonder about them. But to your point, it’s not great revenge. 
 

As for men threatening women, it’s not gentlemanly which I care personally about.  I know not everyone cares lol 

Edited March 15, 2022 by dmc

[eejm]

10 hours ago, ZeeEnnui said:

People that aren't Marion: "That lawyer of yours is super sketchy. He is working that social ladder like its a stripper pole. Watch your back."

Marion: "Red flags. Those would look lovely in my bouquet."

People that aren't Marion: "Are you really that stupid?"

Marion: "Totes. Getting married to a bland dude that I don't know is exactly what weak ass rebel poseurs like myself do to make a point. Viva la revolution!"

Are Mamie or Grace Gummer available next season for a Marian recast so their little sister can explore other off camera career opportunities?

Armstrong should spend her days off working on her nuance. If she had an eeevil mustache, she'd be twirling it. 

Creepy Doll Party lady is all about those sick social burns. LOL.

Peggy's story. Secret marriage and dead baby. Yawn. Also, stop crying Marian. Not everything is about you. 

Don't be jelly, John Q Adams. Do you really want to be f*** buddies with a dude that dresses like an alternate in the Newport Barbershop Quartet? Find you someone whose more into Bachelors than Beards. 

Bertha's Chicken Walk of Shame was hilarious. 

On Law & Order: Gilded Age. It was the Dorota in the Bloomingdales with the deceitful Dixon's charge card. Even Jack McCoy couldn't win a case that quickly. Also, I feel like the writers got super bored with the court case and just wanted George to walk with a preposterously easy solution to his problem. 

I have a theory that next week when Dumdum in Yellow goes to run off with Raikes, it will be George that saves her from ruin as a thank you for being at the right counter at the right time. This will force Agnes to acknowledge the Russells which will cause all kinds of issues next season. But eventually Agnes and Bertha will end up besties trading barbs like the Dowager Countess and Cousin Isobel. 

I would absolutely watch the shit out of Law & Order: Gilded Age.  

[rollacoaster]

7 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

They covet invitations to dinners where you have to crane your neck around candles and contort yourself to converse with one another?

Oh yes! And you can do all that while eating a heavy, several course meal, navigating through a jillion plates, cups, and pieces of silverware while wearing a corset. And also trying to be witty and pretending your life is peachy keen! 

9 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The last 5 minutes were so funny with the people at the back of the house just blithely going on about their business with Mrs. Russell looking so traumatized.  Chopping the fish, defeathering the chickens?  LOL

And when she strove so hard to pull her dignity together as the servants stared! 😆😆😆 For a moment,  she looked like she was gonna vomit. 

Now that I know, Carrie's pregnancy was pretty apparent. 

2 hours ago, Bulldog said:

The more I think about the Agnes/Peggy/Armstrong situation, the more I'm kind of side-eyeing Agnes' excuse for not getting rid of Armstrong.  Just based on their ages, Jack and Bridget could not have worked for Agnes for very long.  So, clearly Agnes is not completely adverse to hiring new servants.  I realize their roles aren't quite as personal as that of a ladies' maid, but still she could train new help if she wanted.  I wonder if Armstrong doesn't have some kind of dirt on Agnes.   

 

2 hours ago, BeatrixK said:

It just makes no sense, given Agnes' adherence to protocol and decency -- opening mail would be a big no no and Armstrong was already told once to stop stirring shit up...But Agnes just lets it lay.  She has not been built into a character who takes kindly to being disobeyed.

It's unusual, from my perspective, to have her give this a pass - unless there is a reason we don't know yet for her to be keeping Armstrong?

I'm actually OK with how they're presenting Agnes in regards to this situation. It feels real to me. It has been shown to us that while Agnes is an adherent to protocol and the appearance of decency and expects to be obeyed, she is also very adverse to change and hates being inconvenienced. She knows she should have gotten rid of Armstrong and kept Peggy on, and was ashamed of herself for being so weak sauce. I think, too, it shows a white woman who prides herself on being fair and doing the right thing, but, when it comes to making a hard decision the will inconvenience her, errs on the side of her own comfort. This holds up an uncomfortable mirror for her, that she is willing to continue to entertain a servant that has been shown several times to be duplicitous, manipulative and downright cruel. She'll live with it, thought, cuz good ladies maids who will put up with her cranky old lady ways are hard to find, am I right?

Don't get me wrong, I like Agnes, and appreciate that she's been written this way. To me, it shows that she is a fully rounded human with nuances and sometimes contradictory and selfish impulses. 

Peggy has been through a lot, and it's definitely matured her. I'm glad she's back with her family. Her mother's joy was so apparent. I think that Marian is a good friend to her. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by rollacoaster

[sistermagpie]

9 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Speaking of train wrecks:  Marian.  I think it'll be funny if she and The Rake get married and he pulls the "your husband now owns everything that is yours, and your father left you filthy rich, but it's all mine now" card.  Meanwhile, Aunt Agnes will be REALLY pissed about all the clothes she bought Marian and will demand repayment.  And Aunt Ada will move in with Marian and The Rake until the The Rake bankrupts Marian for real, and they all end up in the poorhouse.

But that's Season Two . . . right?

Or half of season 2. Fellowes wouldn't want to keep potential rich folks in a poor house for too long. Marian would have to accidentally come into another fortune quick.

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

Forgot to add: Peggy must have been to Hogwarts being able to stash her impressive wardrobe into that tiny suitcase of hers. 

LOL.  

But in actuality, she asked Agnes if she could come back another day for the rest of her stuff.  

[txhorns79]

13 minutes ago, rollacoaster said:

She'll live with it, thought, cuz good ladies maids who will put up with her cranky old lady ways are hard to find, am I right?

I would say it more like she doesn't want to make the effort to break in a new ladies maid.  The price of Armstrong's general unpleasantness is that she already knows how to do things to Agnes' satisfaction. 

[AZChristian]

9 hours ago, chaifan said:

I tend not to agree with the theories that Marion is actually really rich, and Raikes is lying to her.  If that were the case, it would have made more sense for him to think she had just enough money to live in whatever podunk town they were in, and court her there, instead of following her to NYC to get to Part B of the con. 

At their first meeting in his office in Doylestown, Raikes mentioned that Marian had already told him about her aunts in New York.  IMO, he's a lot like Oscar.  Why be pretty well off when you have the opportunity to marry someone who can make you REALLY rich?  

I promise that if I'm wrong about him, I'll acknowledge it.  But now others (Aurora) are being to feel hinky about him, too.  She seems to recognize that Marian is his Plan A, but he's still setting up potential Plan B and Plan C ladies.

5 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I would say it more like she doesn't want to make the effort to break in a new ladies maid.  The price of Armstrong's general unpleasantness is that she already knows how to do things to Agnes' satisfaction. 

Sounds just like the Dowager in Downton Abbey.  

[rollacoaster]

8 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I would say it more like she doesn't want to make the effort to break in a new ladies maid.  The price of Armstrong's general unpleasantness is that she already knows how to do things to Agnes' satisfaction. 

Exactly convenience and comfort over integrity.  

[izabella]

2 hours ago, BeatrixK said:

It just makes no sense, given Agnes' adherence to protocol and decency -- opening mail would be a big no no and Armstrong was already told once to stop stirring shit up...But Agnes just lets it lay.  She has not been built into a character who takes kindly to being disobeyed.

It's unusual, from my perspective, to have her give this a pass - unless there is a reason we don't know yet for her to be keeping Armstrong?

Armstrong has been with Agnes a long time, so as you said, there may be things that Agnes and Armstrong have weathered together back in the day that created loyalty in Agnes toward Armstrong.  Or maybe Agnes knows about Armstrong's mother and doesn't want to leave them both high and dry by firing Armstrong.  Plus, it might not be so easy for an older ladies' maid to find work since everyone is transitioning to new hair styles and fashions and new ways of doing things.

In any case, I hope Agnes isn't giving her a total pass and comes up with some way to hold her accountable.  Or maybe Armstrong can do something good for a change, and redeem herself by foiling Marian's plot to elope.

As for Peggy, I question her judgment!  I do!  She encourages Marian to follow her heart with Raikes, and that is the worst advice possible.  Considering her own situation, I'd expect she would know how badly things could end up for Marian if she elopes with someone she hardly knows and that everyone in her life is warning her against.

[NaughtyKitty]

12 hours ago, dmc said:

LOL I think Oscar's beau is handsome.  

I think he looks like a young Matthew Modine.

[sistermagpie]

11 minutes ago, izabella said:

As for Peggy, I question her judgment!  I do!  She encourages Marian to follow her heart with Raikes, and that is the worst advice possible.  Considering her own situation, I'd expect she would know how badly things could end up for Marian if she elopes with someone she hardly knows and that everyone in her life is warning her against.

Exactly! Plus, she had a husband who was bullied into signing a document so their marriage would be annulled, despite presumably being in actual love with Peggy. Doesn't seem like Raikes would be much more stalwart if he was challenged. He's never faced any real challenges and seems to assume they can all be breezed by.

[LydiaMoon1]

I am a native Southerner. That Foghorn Leghorn-sounding fool gets on my last nerve. His over-baked accent makes my ears bleed.

Poor Gladys. If, instead of finding true love, her destiny is to be the wife of a gay man, I think Mr. Adams would treat her far kinder than Oscar (who is nothing but a selfish user).

I hope this episode means we'll be spending more time with Peggy, her family, and her storyline. Interesting that Armstrong wanted to spill Peggy's secrets in order to get her fired. This show's how backwards some people's so-called morality can be. If Peggy had indeed been a single mother, that should be seen as even more reason for her to work. What would firing her do but starve her and her child? I know. I know. Armstrong's real motivation is that she is a rabid racist. Rationality need not apply.

This episode feels like we've finally stopped world-building and establishing characters and back stories. Now maybe we can get to some good, juicy storytelling. I hope so, anyway. Peggy's story is a great start.

[Haleth]

41 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

At their first meeting in his office in Doylestown, Raikes mentioned that Marian had already told him about her aunts in New York.  IMO, he's a lot like Oscar.  Why be pretty well off when you have the opportunity to marry someone who can make you REALLY rich?  

Surely Marian has told him she has no claim to the Van Rhijn fortune.

If you’ve never visited the cottages at Newport you should make plans to do so. They are…. something to behold. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Haleth

[Melina22]

17 minutes ago, izabella said:

Plus, it might not be so easy for an older ladies' maid to find work since everyone is transitioning to new hair styles and fashions and new ways of doing things.

I thought Agnes's reason for keeping Armstrong was very believable. Retraining a lady's maid would be as tiresome and time-consuming as finding and training a new British butler. Sounds reasonable to me. 

I loved the early scene showing what a powerhouse of energy and control Bertha is, with no detail too small for her to take over, never thinking or caring that maybe other people like to make choices too. But you can see how her staff might look up to and respect such a dominating boss. 

Unpopular opinion : I'm not enjoying Peggy that much. Like so many people on this show, she suffers from one-note-itis. And I don't understand her motivation for walking out on her job. So Armstrong discovered she was married and had a baby -  the rest of the staff seem to like her - what exactly is the problem? (Side note: the show is doing a horrible job lighting her. The only scene where she was properly lit was the one with her mother, and the difference was very noticeable - her beauty really came to life. She deserves better than what she's getting.) 

"Get rid of Mrs. Russell!" Bertha's "chicken walk of shame" was the very first truly funny thing on this show. Loved it. 

I continue to have such mixed feelings about this show. There's so much to like, but the dialogue continues to be dreadful half of the time. Stilted and unbelievable - I just cringe. 

The actress playing Mrs Astor is PERFECT! I hope we see lots more of her. 

The clothes continue to be a delight. 

[izabella]

13 minutes ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

I hope this episode means we'll be spending more time with Peggy, her family, and her storyline. Interesting that Armstrong wanted to spill Peggy's secrets in order to get her fired. This show's how backwards some people's so-called morality can be. If Peggy had indeed been a single mother, that should be seen as even more reason for her to work. What would firing her do but starve her and her child? I know. I know. Armstrong's real motivation is that she is a rabid racist. Rationality need not apply.

I wish Fellowes hadn't saddled Peggy with this horrible, heavy background.  Her character has all the personality and vibrancy that Marian lacks.  She didn't need to have a forcibly annulled marriage and Schrodinger's baby to make her interesting.

[Melina22]

2 minutes ago, izabella said:

She didn't need to have a forcibly annulled marriage and Schrodinger's baby to make her interesting.

Schrodinger's baby! 😁😁😁

[AZChristian]

21 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Surely Marian has told him she has no claim to the Van Rhijn fortune.

I don't think Marian ever thought she had a claim to the Van Rhijn fortune.  I suspect Marian may have a larger fortune than her aunts, and I suspect that Raikes knows it.  He just wants her to think he cares about her welfare, so he's suggesting she should go to live with her well-to-do aunts.  In reality, he's using her as a chess piece to give himself more options for greater wealth in New York than he can attain in Doylestown.

[LydiaMoon1]

9 minutes ago, izabella said:

I wish Fellowes hadn't saddled Peggy with this horrible, heavy background.  Her character has all the personality and vibrancy that Marian lacks.  She didn't need to have a forcibly annulled marriage and Schrodinger's baby to make her interesting.

I'm glad Fellowes "saddled" Peggy with this potentially meaty storyline. I prefer that she have a mysterious husband, a secret baby, family conflict, class rivalry, career ambitions and star-crossed love to watching episodes of Peggy popping into rooms simply to hand letters to Ms. Van Rijn or follow that simple-minded Marian all around town.

[AntFTW]

11 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

they never would have been caught had he not been tipped to her connection with Dixon. 

Maybe. Scammers tend to get sloppy over time like the stenographer did in this episode. Maybe one day they take a little too much and it triggers red flags because their years of getting away with it makes them feel more emboldened. But we'll never know...

[BeatrixK]

OK -- hadn't thought about it - but Y'all convinced me that Marian probably does have more money than assumed. 

And now I have to go back and rewatch the first epi to see how it's described to her.

And maybe it was 'normal' to fall in love with someone a nanosecond after meeting them.  But this show has gone above and beyond to explain the social class systems in place...and it doesn't seem as if he would pursue a woman he knows is 'broke', when he is so obviously working the social ladder so he already knows those same 'rules'.

If you're going to try and make a dent in High Society and know you have to marry into money to do it, it doesn't make any sense for him to propose marriage to someome who is penniless - unless he knows that isn't the case?

Raikes and Oscar are two sides of the same coin: Oscar is too obvious about it.  Raikes is just better at the social game - and doesn't have the Super Creepy Cartoon Villain look Oscar seems to have embraced.