S01.E08: Pie

[AnimeMania]

Reacher leads a rescue mission at the warehouse that ends in a showdown.


Original Airdate: February 4, 2022

[paigow]

Forrest Gump RAN across America... Reacher WALKS [mostly]

[BlackberryJam]

So...I watched this because, well, hot shirtless guy seemed reason enough.

The acting was good, the fight scenes were good, the production value was high, yet this was dull. I know the books are decades old, but the whole, "tragic vet who stumbles into corruption and trouble, only to fight his way out without breaking a sweat, being right about everything, and getting the girl" is a dull story.

This could have been condensed into three episodes, and even then it would have dragged.

I was happy for the eye candy, but wow, was plot terrible. I read a review that described it as "Father's Day Fiction" and yeah, I can see that. But it hasn't aged well.

[LadyIrony]

2 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

So...I watched this because, well, hot shirtless guy seemed reason enough.

The acting was good, the fight scenes were good, the production value was high, yet this was dull. I know the books are decades old, but the whole, "tragic vet who stumbles into corruption and trouble, only to fight his way out without breaking a sweat, being right about everything, and getting the girl" is a dull story.

This could have been condensed into three episodes, and even then it would have dragged.

I was happy for the eye candy, but wow, was plot terrible. I read a review that described it as "Father's Day Fiction" and yeah, I can see that. But it hasn't aged well.

It was reliable in terms of entertainment but I have to agree it was nothing amazing either. It kind of reminded me of 80's TV shows. Perhaps 30 min eps would have been better. I feel like there were large gaps where nothing really happened other than Reacher and Co hitting and killing people. 

And although the humour was fun I can't say I ever ended up caring for the characters. 

[Netfoot]

Well, I enjoyed it. Much more than say, some superhero crap from the MCU. 

People look at Reacher and expect to be dealing with a dumb ox. But that isn't who Reacher is. He is a very clever, well educated ox.

I vote for more. There are over 25 novels on which TV series could be based, so there is no shortage of material. I hope they proceed apace, because I really don't want to wait 1½ years for a follow-up.

[LadyIrony]

1 hour ago, Netfoot said:

Well, I enjoyed it. Much more than say, some superhero crap from the MCU. 

People look at Reacher and expect to be dealing with a dumb ox. But that isn't who Reacher is. He is a very clever, well educated ox.

I vote for more. There are over 25 novels on which TV series could be based, so there is no shortage of material. I hope they proceed apace, because I really don't want to wait 1½ years for a follow-up.

I like that about him he isn't a stereotype. He outclasses everyone he comes into contact with and it seems he just lacks the patience to tolerate their stupidity. 

I do feel the show is missing something though. Perhaps Reacher isn't lifelike enough yet. 

[BlackberryJam]

2 hours ago, LadyIrony said:

I like that about him he isn't a stereotype. He outclasses everyone he comes into contact with and it seems he just lacks the patience to tolerate their stupidity. 

I do feel the show is missing something though. Perhaps Reacher isn't lifelike enough yet. 

At the moment, Reacher is nothing more than a trope. He's the Gentle Giant/Brilliant Bruiser, and that's it. If there is a season where he is carrying around a crumpled photo of his military buddies, one of whom died tragically while the other has become a drug dealer/arms dealer/bad guy, it'll check that box off too. I don't blame that on the show writers, but again, that the books haven't aged well. 

Arnold Schwarzenegger had a more unexpected and interesting personality in Terminator 2.  

I suspect the show will get a second season because it doesn't seem that expensive to produce, not like say, The Expanse. 

I'm not a fan of comic books or superhero movies, but I am a fan of hot shirtless men. Pantsless too. And speaking of that, I did appreciate that they showed full frontal of the crucified man, not because I was interested in his wang, but because they so often show full frontal of female murder victims. The nudity was appropriate for the story.

I'll certainly watch a second season, but Reacher needs to get more of a personality, and I don't mean finding out that he meditates or is a good cook. Maybe having him do voiceovers would help? He'd seem less robotic.

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by BlackberryJam

[LadyIrony]

7 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

At the moment, Reacher is nothing more than a trope. He's the Gentle Giant/Brilliant Bruiser, and that's it. If there is a season where he is carrying around a crumpled photo of his military buddies, one of whom died tragically while the other has become a drug dealer/arms dealer/bad guy, it'll check that box off too. I don't blame that on the show writers, but again, that the books haven't aged well. 

Arnold Schwarzenegger had a more unexpected and interesting personality in Terminator 2.  

I suspect the show will get a second season because it doesn't seem that expensive to produce, not like say, The Expanse. 

I'm not a fan of comic books or superhero movies, but I am a fan of hot shirtless men. Pantsless too. And speaking of that, I did appreciate that they showed full frontal of the crucified man, not because I was interested in his wang, but because they so often show full frontal of female murder victims. The nudity was appropriate for the story.

I'll certainly watch a second season, but Reacher needs to get more of a personality, and I don't mean finding out that he meditates or is a good cook. Maybe having him do voiceovers would help? He'd seem less robotic.

 

He is Hero by numbers.

I was surprised when they showed the dead guy completely naked. Like you I wasn't turned on by it but liked the gender role reversal. I thought it may have led to seeing Reacher completely nude as well. 

The trip to the strip club seemed like more standard trope though. 

We know some things about Reacher but again it's very standard, likes animals, beats up bullies, is intolerant of crap and processes even legal ones. He still seems like a blank slate though. 

  

[BlackberryJam]

11 minutes ago, LadyIrony said:

He is Hero by numbers.

I was surprised when they showed the dead guy completely naked. Like you I wasn't turned on by it but liked the gender role reversal. I thought it may have led to seeing Reacher completely nude as well. 

The trip to the strip club seemed like more standard trope though. 

We know some things about Reacher but again it's very standard, likes animals, beats up bullies, is intolerant of crap and processes even legal ones. He still seems like a blank slate though. 

  

Well, there has to be a strip club involved, right? How else do we get the boob quota?

[LadyIrony]

11 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Well, there has to be a strip club involved, right? How else do we get the boob quota?

I did laugh when I saw it. Cops in the strip club, box has been ticked! 

 

[Morrigan2575]

I really liked this show. Looking forward to S2. I'm glad Hubble and his family were saved, I figured Hubby would end up dead.

I don't see how Joe looked just like Reacher but, I guess it's hard to find actors like that. 

 

[WritinMan]

I liked this quite a bit.

It reminded me of action movies from the 80s. Questionable acting. Clichéd story. But it had some great action and it was fun to watch with bad guys getting their ass kicked. And I'm not a fan of the books.

I'm looking forward to season 2.

[Netfoot]

3 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Maybe having him do voiceovers would help? He'd seem less robotic.

That might work, because in the books, he often mentally discusses his thought processes and how he makes his decisions. But if they were going that route, they would surely have gone with the voiceovers a la Burn Notice by now?

[BlackberryJam]

6 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

That might work, because in the books, he often mentally discusses his thought processes and how he makes his decisions. But if they were going that route, they would surely have gone with the voiceovers a la Burn Notice by now?

The voiceovers were the best part of Burn Notice.

They can always make a change for Season 2.

[paigow]

Dolph Lundgren was probably unavailable to be Joe Reacher. Run him through the magic de-ager a few times...

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I don't see how Joe looked just like Reacher but, I guess it's hard to find actors like that. 

 

2 hours ago, WritinMan said:

It reminded me of action movies from the 80s. Questionable acting.

Tom Cruise is too small, but a better actor

[preeya]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

Tom Cruise is too small, but a better actor

I enjoyed the TC version of Reacher, and yes he is a better actor.

[RedElf]

Sure a lot of head butting in this show.

Where did they get the money to put maman up in that fancy hotel?

No beard in uniform, Reacher.

 

 

[Raja]

6 hours ago, RedElf said:

Sure a lot of head butting in this show.

Where did they get the money to put maman up in that fancy hotel?

No beard in uniform, Reacher.

 

I just head canoned that she had the money and Reacher came directly from the plane. Time to throw on his blues but not shave. But already came to the conclusion this runs very low on a realism standard

I missed the scene where Reacher announced to the police that "I'll be back". I didn't expect Picard to also be crushed in the factory. Just by the luck of the draw the three cops go one on one with their main advisory. In the end Georgia really needs to update their fire codes

Being able to survive the smoke where Neagley feared to thread, the junk food body recovery from the crowbar beating, there is only one conclusion. Reacher was given the super soldier serum

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Raja

[Netfoot]

8 hours ago, RedElf said:

Where did they get the money to put maman up in that fancy hotel?

I'm assuming that she would have got some sort of widow's pension from the Marine Corps, when her husband died after a lifetime of service. Plus what ever savings they may have accumulated over their lifetimes. Dunno how much that would come to...

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

Just by the luck of the draw the three cops go one on one with their main advisory.

That bugged me a little, especially because they did the same thing in Hitman's Wife's Bodyguard...which i just watched 2 days before Reacher.

[Linderhill]

my big question is why would his mother call him "Reacher?"  She's his mother, I'd think she would call him by his given name.  The same for the rest of the family.

[Unclejosh]

That is direct from the books. Everyone including his mother called him Reacher since he was a little kid.  Even though it was also their last name it was basically his family nickname that everyone used.

[Linderhill]

2 hours ago, Unclejosh said:

That is direct from the books. Everyone including his mother called him Reacher since he was a little kid.  Even though it was also their last name it was basically his family nickname that everyone used.

thanks, I was wondering if that was book accurate.

[paigow]

8 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

That bugged me a little, especially because they did the same thing in Hitman's Wife's Bodyguard...which i just watched 2 days before Reacher.

Standard trope - even in Westerns like Silverado

[Raja]

14 minutes ago, paigow said:

Standard trope - even in Westerns like Silverado

I was thinking about that but Kevin Kline and Danny Glover both were going for specific targets in Silverado and not just caught in a random fight in the big battle with their opposite by chance. As was McKendrick when he saw Scott Glenn. The Kevin Costner fight did seem more random.

[LadyIrony]

On 2/7/2022 at 7:53 PM, RedElf said:

Sure a lot of head butting in this show.

Where did they get the money to put maman up in that fancy hotel?

No beard in uniform, Reacher.

 

 

I thought that was odd too especially given during the whole season he was clean shaven. 

[Morrigan2575]

9 hours ago, paigow said:

Standard trope - even in Westerns like Silverado

I forgot about that but, you're right it does happen a lot.

[paigow]

I never noticed Dueling Head Butts until Lethal Weapon 1 - Riggs v Joshua. Maybe this episode was an homage.

[Raja]

2 minutes ago, paigow said:

I never noticed Dueling Head Butts until Lethal Weapon 1 - Riggs v Joshua. Maybe this episode was an homage.

Perhaps, the two Terminator homages were immediately recognizable. When I think of Lethal Weapon the busted fire hydrant is what I remember from the fight

[thuganomics85]

Whelp, credit to Teale I guess, because he really did have me fooled.  Honestly thought he was a red herring and was just going to be an arrogant fool, but he really was in the know about everything and truly did kill Roscoe's mentor.  Should have known to always expect the worst of a Bruce McGill character!

I did kind of love that Picard didn't have any special motivations or reasons for his corruption and was legit like "I just did it for the money!"  For a show like this, it kind of works just to have your bad guys have selfish, one-dimensional reasons for being the worst.

Not surprised Paul was still alive, but I was surprised the entire family made it out in one piece.  I guess Paul will get a lighter sentence; if any; since his involvement was due to fear for his life.

The big showdown in the warehouse was fun, even if it was amusing that they made sure the big three (Reacher, Finlay, Roscoe) had a particular main baddie to take down for the final battle.  Impressive work by all, but Finlay definitely wins in the creativity department!

Reacher finally got his pie!  Even if he didn't think it was the best in Georgia after-all.

Finlay adopted the mistreated dog and named it Jack, heh.

All in all, I had a good time here.  Didn't break any barriers or anything, but it was a solid throwback to old-school action/crime show, filled with fun, if one note characters, solid twist and turns, and good production values.  The actors generally fit their roles as well, which is always a plus.  Glad it's already getting a second season.  I'm guessing only Alan Ritchson and maybe Maria Stein (Neagley) are sticking around Reacher is likely going to go off to another town to help save the day, but I can see them eventually finding a way to bring back either Roscoe or Finlay if they want to.  I do hope Amazon keeps dropping all of the episodes at once instead of the "three episodes and then one episode each week" method, because I do think this is a show that benefits more from just binging it/watching over a few days.  Until then, I'm considering checking out the books and maybe even seeing the Tom Cruise films to compare and contrast.

[Cthulhudrew]

Well, it wasn't terrible, but it really wasn't great. I like Alan Ritchson, but I'd rather get another Blood Drive S2 than Reacher S2. Plus, I'm not sure I'd like to see it without Willa Fitzgerald's Roscoe.

I've got an idea for S2:

Reacher, John Rambo, Kwai Chang Caine, Reno Raines, and James Dalton all stroll into the same town...

 

 

[jabRI]

Was that Lee Child doing a camo in the diner, in the last scene? Seemed like it

[ribboninthesky1]

On 2/6/2022 at 12:01 AM, BlackberryJam said:

I was happy for the eye candy, but wow, was plot terrible.

A lot of the dialogue was too.  Most of it could be summarized in some variation about Reacher's size, how he was a good man, always did the right thing, but also not to be fucked with. Oh, and various allusions to him disliking bullies. 

On 2/6/2022 at 12:01 AM, BlackberryJam said:

This could have been condensed into three episodes, and even then it would have dragged.

I don't recall much about the 2nd Reacher film, but I watched the 1st one recently.  The plot was similarly convoluted, but the pacing was better.    

Alan Ritchson was okay. His best scenes were opposite Malcolm Goodwin as Findlay.  The writing didn't do him any favors.  I read in an article that he was injured while shooting.  Not surprised given the number of fight sequences.  I also thought his gait and some of his movements were kind of stiff at times, perhaps due to the injuries.  I compared him to The Rock in his 30s, who despite his size came across as quite agile in films like Walking Tall and The Rundown.  

The casting for adult Joe was...not what I expected.  I think it was the hair. 

I appreciated Neagley, as she was quietly competent with nothing to prove and not romantically hung up on Reacher. 

Roscoe was annoying as she came across as someone barely out of high school playing badass vs an experienced police officer.    

I think the best casting was Chris Webster as KJ.  Dude had the look of a psychopath, and he was. 

[jabRI]

17 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

The casting for adult Joe was...not what I expected.  I think it was the hair. 

I agree, that really put me off

[Raja]

18 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

 

Roscoe was annoying as she came across as someone barely out of high school playing badass vs an experienced police officer.    

I think the best casting was Chris Webster as KJ.  Dude had the look of a psychopath, and he was. 

As long as we were talking about movie homages, that Junior wanted to take on Reacher and his eyes, flashed me back to Bennett wanting to go hand to hand with Arnold Schwarzenegger's Colonel Matrix in Commando

Roscoe was a bit much, as if she knew that she had plot armor. Back in the beginning of the story when her two fellow officers first arrested Reacher they gave off the look of cops being asked to deal with something more then they ever had before felt more real.

[dleighg]

I thought it was pretty close to the books. As in, if you hadn't read the books, and expected this to be "high art" you'd be disappointed. 

[rebel2u]

I was trying to think of who Reacher reminded me of and then it hit me:   Puddy, from Seinfeld.

They appear to be kindred spirits, both with their blank, ever-present stare. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by rebel2u

[Netfoot]

2 hours ago, dleighg said:

I thought it was pretty close to the books. As in, if you hadn't read the books, and expected this to be "high art" you'd be disappointed. 

No, it isn't high art. It doesn't even have a poorly disguised, politically correct message.

It's just entertainment. 

[mledawn]

Every time there was a camera focussed only on Reacher, he reminded me of a video game character. Like, in the gameplay previews when it’s not actually the game play - more like a trailer. He just didn’t seem “real”.

The Tom Cruise movies were absurd because Cruise absolutely did not fit the physicality of Reacher but his mannerisms and demeanour was bang on imho. That’s what’s not quite fitting for me with this series - basically the opposite from the movies. Hopefully that is dialled in with the second season. 
 

Overall, it was mostly fun and I will watch S2. 

[LaylaGirl]

On 2/9/2022 at 11:10 AM, jabRI said:

Was that Lee Child doing a camo in the diner, in the last scene? Seemed like it

Yes, that was him. He did cameos in the Tom Cruise movies as well.

[Pestilentia]

On 2/10/2022 at 9:45 PM, rebel2u said:

Puddy, from Seinfeld.

We said the very same thing- IMO it was the speech cadence.

[rove4]

On 2/9/2022 at 12:38 AM, thuganomics85 said:

All in all, I had a good time here.  Didn't break any barriers or anything, but it was a solid throwback to old-school action/crime show, filled with fun, if one note characters, solid twist and turns, and good production values. 

Same here.  I binged the show this past weekend and was entertained, which is all I was looking for. I'll be back for season two. 

 

On 2/9/2022 at 3:11 PM, ribboninthesky1 said:

I appreciated Neagley, as she was quietly competent with nothing to prove and not romantically hung up on Reacher. 

Roscoe was annoying as she came across as someone barely out of high school playing badass vs an experienced police officer.  

I really liked Neagley too and would love for her to show up again in the next season.  I totally agree on your take on Roscoe. I hope she stays in Reacher's rear view mirror. I did like Finlay though and his interactions with Reacher.  Maybe Reacher will stumble onto a case that takes him to Boston.  

[Rlb8031]

On 2/9/2022 at 1:10 PM, jabRI said:

Was that Lee Child doing a camo in the diner, in the last scene? Seemed like it

Yes, that was him. He said he likes this version. Interesting fact, it looks like Tom Cruise brought all of the rights, because it's his production company behind the series. \

The two big shortcomings of the show were Rickman's approach to the character, and the failure of the writers to fill in some of the important expository background that was always included in the books. By going for the strong, silent type, Rickman left the door open to all the speculation about Reacher being dumb/autistic/shallow. In the books its pretty clear that he's not just freakishly large and strong but also a smart guy who is an excellent police officer/tracker/problem solver. His soldiers didn't just like working for him because he was physically impressive, he was also extremely highly principled and very smart. 

The failure to write in some of the expository stuff meant important things were left out - Reacher's time at West Point, the fact that his mom was from a wealthy French family and basically walked away from that to become an Army wife, the backstory on Reacher's pension and his transient existence, etc. Hopefully both of those things will be remedied in Season 2. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Rlb8031

[Raja]

51 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

Yes, that was him. He said he likes this version. Interesting fact, it looks like Tom Cruise brought all of the rights, because it's his production company behind the series. \

The two big shortcomings of the show were Rickman's approach to the character, and the failure of the writers to fill in some of the important expository background that was always included in the books. By going for the strong, silent type, Rickman left the door open to all the speculation about Reacher being dumb/autistic/shallow. In the books its pretty clear that he's not just freakishly large and strong but also a smart guy who is an excellent police officer/tracker/problem solver. His soldiers didn't just like working for him because he was physically impressive, he was also extremely highly principled and very smart. 

The failure to write in some of the expository stuff meant important things were left out - Reacher's time at West Point, the fact that his mom was from a wealthy French family and basically walked away from that to become an Army wife, the backstory on Reacher's pension and his transient existence, etc. Hopefully both of those things will be remedied in Season 2. 

As it was the fighting back story of Reacher and his father's career possibly being spiked in an impossible way leads me to think that the only way those brothers got into West Point was as the children of a Medal of Honor recipient

[Netfoot]

2 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

The failure to write in some of the expository stuff meant important things were left out

And it wouldn't have been hard to include some of it, either with a Burn Notice type voice over, or by flashing back to his military career. Or even a bit of both.

Would it have hurt so bad to make it 10 episodes and add the right amount of expositionary material to flesh out the character, and make him less one-note?

Edited February 16, 2022 by Netfoot

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, Netfoot said:

And it wouldn't have been hard to include some of it, either with a Burn Notice type voice over, or by flashing back to his military career. Or even a bit of both.

Would it have hurt so bad to make it 10 episodes and add the right amount of expositionary material to flesh out the character, and make him less one-note?

Ehh, it's the first season.  Maybe they'll improve that in season 2.

[madmax]

Just finished the series and I enjoyed it.  Good cheesy fun.

The Cruise movie (never saw the second because someone I trust said it sucked) was good, if I didn't consider it a Reacher movie.  I called him Mack Smeacher.  Cruise is a better actor but just really didn't fit the character.

I've read most of the books - the most recent one was my last because Child's brother is writing them now and you can tell, plus it was very political - and I was glad that the show was pretty faithful to the source material.

I'm looking forward to the next season.

[shrewd.buddha]

As far as ways to pass the time go, this was a pretty good show -- despite its tendency to follow most of the lone avenger tropes.
It could have been reduced to six episodes, though some of the backstory was interesting.  I do hope they don't go heavy into the flashback stories.  I'm just tired of that storytelling technique. 

The only quibbles I had were when Reacher inexplicably stopped acting like Reacher: he didn't bother to find Picard's body when he shot him and Picard fell over the interstate railing.  Reacher isn't that sloppy. 
It's hard to believe that Reacher would just leave his brother's body behind in Margrave GA without any mention of arrangements. 
Also: the bad guys went out of character when they decided to use Reacher instead of instantly killing him.  But that's just plot armor trope.

[LadyIrony]

On 2/21/2022 at 1:21 AM, shrewd.buddha said:

As far as ways to pass the time go, this was a pretty good show -- despite its tendency to follow most of the lone avenger tropes.
It could have been reduced to six episodes, though some of the backstory was interesting.  I do hope they don't go heavy into the flashback stories.  I'm just tired of that storytelling technique. 

The only quibbles I had were when Reacher inexplicably stopped acting like Reacher: he didn't bother to find Picard's body when he shot him and Picard fell over the interstate railing.  Reacher isn't that sloppy. 
It's hard to believe that Reacher would just leave his brother's body behind in Margrave GA without any mention of arrangements. 
Also: the bad guys went out of character when they decided to use Reacher instead of instantly killing him.  But that's just plot armor trope.

I know some of the humour comes from Reacher just hitting people but I kept thinking if someone like him would want to maintain a lower profile? Assuming Reacher is going to go place to place fighting bad guys wouldn't the story of "The huge guy who comes in beating people up" be all over the internet in seconds? 

So although it is part of his character it also seemed out of character to me, if that makes sense?

[snarktini]

Can we get a spinoff for Finlay? Wry, repressed, and a little tortured with a side of air drums and classic rock. And I love his soundtrack! I'd totally watch that show.

I'm less sold on more Reacher. He was okay, the show was okay. But I did get tired of him just mowing people down and had the same thought as LadyIrony that the preemptive smashing/killing seemed counterproductive IRL.