S11.E06: Episode 6

[Rootbeer]

2 minutes ago, Cetacean said:

Highly unlikely.  It's not considered a genetic condition and is also extremely rare.  With the number of drug users, we'd see it more often if that was the cause.

I've seen gastroschisis (pronounced gas-tro-SKEE- sus here in the US) maybe half dozen times in my 40 years in OB.  It looks awful, but, these days, it can be corrected and the kids usually do quite well.  It is usually not associated with other birth defects and it not a genetic syndrome, doesn't seem to run in families.  It is mainly a random occurrence from what I've seen.  I'd never heard of it being associated with drug use.

[Cetacean]

1 minute ago, Rootbeer said:

It looks awful, but, these days, it can be corrected and the kids usually do quite well. 

And with ultrasounds it can be detected early on so the baby can be delivered by C section and the repair done quickly.

[Sarah 103]

 

4 hours ago, monakane said:

The miscarriage scenes really got to me.  I suffered a couple of miscarriages years ago and I found myself very moved.  The distress she felt is very accurate.

 

35 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I especially liked how Cyril discussed trying to be "manly" about it while he was also mourning. 

I think part of what makes it worse is that they were both in mourning, but not allowing themselves to feel and work through the grief. What was really frustrating is that they were both going through the same thing. I'm glad at the end they were finally able to talk to each other. They're a married couple who just endured something awful. They should be allowed to be sad together. 

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

LOL. It did feel like writers trying too hard to be hip.

I wasn't thinking about that. I was thinking more "hippies are awful people, but capable of being redeemed and becoming decent members of society again," which is so Dragnet and many other shows from the late 1960s/early 1970s. 

 

[Rootbeer]

3 minutes ago, Cetacean said:

And with ultrasounds it can be detected early on so the baby can be delivered by C section and the repair done quickly.

They don't even always need a cesarean, some doctors recommend it but many don't; but it does allow the parents to consult with a pediatric surgeon and deliver at a hospital where pediatric surgery for newborns can be done which makes things run much more smoothly in the long run.  Most of these kids have a surgical repair within a day or two of birth.

I've only seen one gastroschisis that wasn't diagnosed before delivery and that was almost 40 years ago when women didn't have routine prenatal ultrasounds.  Baby did well though.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Rootbeer

[jschoolgirl]

Except for the birth, this is the first-ever episode of CtM that I found tedious.

[EllaWycliffe]

2 minutes ago, jschoolgirl said:

Except for the birth, this is the first-ever episode of CtM that I found tedious.

Agreed. I'm not of the "Geez just get over it" mindset with miscarriage but because of the time it's set, while this certainly wasn't an unusual way to handle it, it just amounted to "Cyril and Lucille are sad for obvious reasons" and of course they talk and begin healing. This isn't a show where Cyril is going to slap her around and call her a bad mother for letting the baby die. Likewise, Lucille isn't going to get the post partum psychosis and start killing prostitutes (although she is pretty tightly wound). There's no where to go with this other than "Cyril and Lucille are sad for obvious reasons."

The hippy storyline was fun but while I found it the most interesting, I can also honestly say we have a lot of characters on this show - Frances, Hilda, Nancy, and Sr. Julienne all got short shift in this episode so that Trixie's boyfriend could be featured and like, I enjoy Matthew, I like the actor and he's pretty in a way I like but did this need to happen?

The raven as a portent of Death from the god Odin is something I learned watching Vikings so yeah.

Mild SPoiler

Spoiler

The next episode is up on PBS Passport. The crow and the clairvoyant are indeed bad signs. All I know is that when the Doctor Who music played, I KNEW some bad shit was about to go down. 

 

[JudyObscure]

Sorry if I was spreading false info about drug use and Clover's condition, I had just Googled it and that's what it said -- can't find the same thing  again -- but I did look up the CDC on it and it doesn't mention recreational drugs at all, but does say this: "Alcohol and tobacco: Women who consumed alcohol or smoked before or during early pregnancy may be more likely to have a baby with gastroschisis."  

54 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

I wasn't thinking about that. I was thinking more "hippies are awful people, but capable of being redeemed and becoming decent members of society again," which is so Dragnet and many other shows from the late 1960s/early 1970s. 

Yes, I was irritated by the "awful hippies."  Half the people I knew at that time would have been called "lazy, dirty hippies," based on their clothes, speech, art, and music. If you were in college and against the war in Vietnam, or just huge Beatles fans, that's probably how you dressed.

The ones I knew  were all either students or had jobs and they were actually cleaner than the generation before who dry cleaned their clothes a few times a year,  got their hair done once a week, and just added spray in between.  Most of the hippie girls washed their hair and clothes every day.  Oh sure, a homeless group like shown might have gone so far into drugs they became useless, but that's no reason for the show to act like they were all terrible people, like Cat.

If the ones I knew  had, had a pregnant friend they would have surrounded her with care,  flowers and incense and soft guitar music, and new ideas like water births and walking labor.  It wouldn't have been what Susie needed but they wouldn't have just left her alone. Most of them graduated and went on to be social workers or teachers.  I didn't see that Family Affair episode but how typical to make a judgment that the hippies who had kindly played with them wouldn't have cared for their relatives.

[EllaWycliffe]

Just now, JudyObscure said:

Yes, I was irritated by the "awful hippies."  Half the people I knew at that time would have been called "lazy, dirty hippies," based on their clothes, speech, art, and music. If you were in college and against the war in Vietnam, or just huge Beatles fans, that's probably how you dressed.

I mean, at least it wasn't as bad as the "Space Hippie" episode of Classic Star Trek, where they were all super dumb and ate poison fruit :)

[kwnyc]

17 hours ago, dalek said:

I was surprised that Chekov's parafin cans didn't go anywhere.  I was expecting a fire.

I totally called that and was surprised when it didn't happen. Maybe if the squatters stick around the warehouse...I guess they have to give Matthew something to do while Trixie is away hiding behind the furniture in Portofino.

But if they use that as a character driver, I can see Matthew EITHER telling Trixie he doesn't want her to do that kind of work anymore OR starting some kind of charitable foundation for pregnant women/homeless people. Also great to see that Shelagh used her skills as a midwife again. Sister Julienne's remarks to Lucille about how there's rarely a pregnant midwife or a midwife with children served to subtly underline that Shelagh's not on the roster any more.

We are doing a rewatch from season 1, and I note that Sister Monica Joan wasn't definitely considered to have dementia, though Dr. Turner said when someone is brought home barefoot in their nightdress by the police, that's my diagnosis.

Also, early on, when Jenny is pulling the boot off Mrs. Jenkins, I thanked my stars that her FOOT didn't come off with it!

I'm wondering whether the show-runners either planned to ease Sister Monica Joan off, or give her a grand death when they started the series, but because it became such a hit and it's 11 years later, they still don't give her a baseline personality or identify her disorder. (LIke the Dowager Countess in Downton has to be well into her 80s by now, but heck, that's Maggie Smith!

Sister Monica Joan has been most valuable in identifying some things, and remembering things that have helped the nurses/nuns in the present day, and as for finding the clairvoyant's son, I'd think she'd be able to do it through Miss Higgin's church. And the Nonnatans have been able to track down long-lost relatives before, so I'll say they have a workflow for that. ;-)

Also my memory for non-useful facts dredged up that ravens are resident at the Tower of London, and are not only considered good luck, but if they leave, the Tower will fall. "Nevermore!" say ravens Jubilee, Harris, Gripp, Rocky, Erin, Poppy and Georgie (the current ravens at the Tower). I looked THAT up.

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by kwnyc

[Shermie]

6 hours ago, Calvada said:

I was in and out for the first 10 minutes or so of the episode (finishing up laundry) but was there a reason that Matthew couldn't call the police to have them clear out the squatters?  And why was Sister Frances yelling from the street up to Clover?  Why didn't she walk into the building?  "Midwife calling!"  If the people had locked the door, couldn't Matthew have unlocked it, or sought assistance from the police?  If she was concerned for her safety, she could have gone in with someone else, or hey, here's an idea, sought assistance from the police.

Matthew likely didn’t want to be a heartless landlord that kicks homeless people on the street, esp a pregnant one. And Sister Frances can’t just barge into any closed door she wants just because she thinks a pregnant woman might be inside.

I think the “dirty hippies” concept wasn’t for the general idea of clothes and hair and music, but for their squatting and not really doing anything with their lives than hanging around. So they’re not dirty, just useless.

I’m surprised so many of the nuns and midwives would be superstitious about a bird. I would understand if one of them was all, “Oh no, a bird in the house is bad luck!” But it seemed most of them felt that way. I figured religion and science would trump superstition for them. 

As for Shelagh’s hairstyle, she seems like the type that will always be several years behind the current styles. Partly because she’s busy with her job and family, but also because she’s prim and conservative.

Do we assume that with the bad luck bird, the fortune teller’s prediction of doom, some random dangerous paraffin cans, and some irresponsible squatters we’re going to have a fire or explosion in the next episode or two? Surely they won’t kill off Matthew, will they?

[caitmcg]

53 minutes ago, Shermie said:

As for Shelagh’s hairstyle, she seems like the type that will always be several years behind the current styles. Partly because she’s busy with her job and family, but also because she’s prim and conservative.

I don’t think her clothing has changed much since she left the order, either.

 

[Dehumidifier]

3 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

I've seen gastroschisis (pronounced gas-tro-SKEE- sus here in the US) maybe half dozen times in my 40 years in OB.  It looks awful, but, these days, it can be corrected and the kids usually do quite well.  It is usually not associated with other birth defects and it not a genetic syndrome, doesn't seem to run in families.  It is mainly a random occurrence from what I've seen.  I'd never heard of it being associated with drug use.

When they wrapped the baby in the blanket I thought, shouldn't they be doing something to keep the intestines moist? Wouldn't they start drying out once they were out of mom's body?

[dubbel zout]

1 minute ago, Dehumidifier said:

When they wrapped the baby in the blanket I thought, shouldn't they be doing something to keep the intestines moist? Wouldn't they start drying out once they were out of mom's body?

That's what the paper and boiling water Sheila needed was for. 

[Dehumidifier]

19 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

That's what the paper and boiling water Sheila needed was for. 

Oh, that went by me, I remember the water, not the paper.

[caitmcg]

46 minutes ago, Dehumidifier said:

Oh, that went by me, I remember the water, not the paper.

Shelagh put dampened gauze and then grease-proof (i.e. damp-resistant) paper over it before wrapping her in the blanket.

[Dehumidifier]

3 minutes ago, caitmcg said:

Shelagh put dampened gauze and then grease-proof (i.e. damp-resistant) paper over it before wrapping her in the blanket.

I recall what happened now -- I was eating and turned away after seeing the intestines. I heard her say "water."

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, caitmcg said:

I don’t think her clothing has changed much since she left the order, either.

 

I was so disappointed the first time  she changed from her habit to civilian clothes and stepped out in that skinned back hairdo and homely gray suit.  I had pictured a light, flowered dress and hair waving softly around her face.  Oh well, Dr. Turner still looked thrilled.  Their story is so romantic to me.

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

That's what the paper and boiling water Sheila needed was for. 

Damn, she really was awesome  

[EllaWycliffe]

7 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I was so disappointed the first time  she changed from her habit to civilian clothes and stepped out in that skinned back hairdo and homely gray suit.  I had pictured a light, flowered dress and hair waving softly around her face. 

She may have been handed the clothes she wore when she entered the convent to take vows. I know I have seen that in nun movies.

[MartyQui]

She was probably handed someone else’s clothes, I don’t think they kept yours handy in case you renounced your vows.  Fun fact: my mother donated her wedding gown to our local convent for a nun to wear when they became the “bride of Christ”.  My aunt donated hers, and it eventually ended up as a dress for an Infant of Prague statue in her church.

[anna0852]

1 hour ago, EllaWycliffe said:

She may have been handed the clothes she wore when she entered the convent to take vows. I know I have seen that in nun movies.

She was. Sister Juilanne and Sister Evangelina had a whole conversation about it. And then we saw Sister J returning the suitcase to Shelagh

[Cetacean]

8 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

And then we saw Sister J returning the suitcase to Shelagh

I would imagine that, in some cases, those clothes would be hopelessly outdated.  And would no longer fit!

[Shanna Marie]

23 hours ago, dalek said:

I was surprised that Chekov's parafin cans didn't go anywhere.  I was expecting a fire.

I think that was to give Matthew an excuse to be at the warehouse to find Clover/Susie in labor. He showed up to set up the heaters and found her.

[Rootbeer]

4 hours ago, Dehumidifier said:

When they wrapped the baby in the blanket I thought, shouldn't they be doing something to keep the intestines moist? Wouldn't they start drying out once they were out of mom's body?

That's essentially what we still do today, wet some surgical guaze with warm sterile water and place it over the abdomen and then a water resistant dressing over that.  It keeps the bowels moist which decreases scarring, decreases the risk of infection, and, most importantly, keeps the baby warm.  As anyone who works in surgery can tell you, an open abdomen exposing the guts to the air is a very rapid way to lose body heat.  Newborns are particularly susceptible to this and, when their temperature drops, they are at risk for serious complications like infections.

[Badger]

6 hours ago, MartyQui said:

She was probably handed someone else’s clothes, I don’t think they kept yours handy in case you renounced your vows.  Fun fact: my mother donated her wedding gown to our local convent for a nun to wear when they became the “bride of Christ”.  My aunt donated hers, and it eventually ended up as a dress for an Infant of Praue statue in her church.

Maria Von Trapp wrote that when she left the convent to go teach the Von Trapp children, she wore a dress that had belonged to the most recent deceased nun who was quite elderly. 
"

[Rootbeer]

6 hours ago, Badger said:

Maria Von Trapp wrote that when she left the convent to go teach the Von Trapp children, she wore a dress that had belonged to the most recent deceased nun who was quite elderly. 
"

Back in the day, convents took that vow of poverty seriously and most girls entering had to surrender virtually everything they owned including their clothing and much of it ended up in a donations box.  They were allowed to keep only the simplest things, and, even then, not much of that.

[kwnyc]

..but the Nonnatons are Episcopalian, darling! ;-)

[Badger]

On 4/24/2022 at 9:10 PM, EllaWycliffe said:

Of course Mrs. Higgins is a spiritualist. Of course she knows a clairvoyant. Of course SMJ is capable of trapsing across the city without any help. 

I'm sad that Matthew didn't tune in and drop out.... he'd be a fun hippie I think. 

She mentioned going to a Spiritualist church in the Season 9 Christmas special, the one where the circus came to town.

 

[Badger]

20 hours ago, Shermie said:

Matthew likely didn’t want to be a heartless landlord that kicks homeless people on the street, esp a pregnant one. And Sister Frances can’t just barge into any closed door she wants just because she thinks a pregnant woman might be inside.

I think the “dirty hippies” concept wasn’t for the general idea of clothes and hair and music, but for their squatting and not really doing anything with their lives than hanging around. So they’re not dirty, just useless.

I’m surprised so many of the nuns and midwives would be superstitious about a bird. I would understand if one of them was all, “Oh no, a bird in the house is bad luck!” But it seemed most of them felt that way. I figured religion and science would trump superstition for them. 

As for Shelagh’s hairstyle, she seems like the type that will always be several years behind the current styles. Partly because she’s busy with her job and family, but also because she’s prim and conservative.

Do we assume that with the bad luck bird, the fortune teller’s prediction of doom, some random dangerous paraffin cans, and some irresponsible squatters we’re going to have a fire or explosion in the next episode or two? Surely they won’t kill off Matthew, will they?

The hippies weren't homeless or poor.  They were there because they wanted to live without society's rules and to be free, as Clover/Susie put it as well as to practice their art.  

[CrazyMoon]

This particular group of "hippies" were art students who just wanted to practice their arts without rules or interference...I grew up in the greater San Francisco area and was a teenager in the 60s...I did my time in Golden Gate Park & the Haight/Ashbury...it really wasn't for me. However, I saw so very many things...Moving out squatters always made the local evening news. CMW scenes were a little corny, but not that big of an exaggeration. Some groups were very self centered & selfish and did just exactly what happened in the episode. To them it's just empty space so why can't we be here for free, we're not hurting anyone and you aren't using it. There was a degree of thoughtlessness & carelessness as well as entitlement. Susie wasn't safe there, I saw that right away...
I have enjoyed Cyril & Lucille. Both have rather 'private' personalities and personal expectations...good to see them become more emotionally open & available to each other...they will heal more quickly now that they share the burden...
The gastroschisis baby was a bit of a surprise, but it's rare, random & congenital, not genetic...A friend's nephew was diagnosed prenatally...at his birth he was treated similarly with the addition of a pressure bandage to position everything correctly to prepare for the surgery a day or two after birth...he's in his teens now and a junior rodeo competitor...

[JudyObscure]

27 minutes ago, CrazyMoon said:

.I grew up in the greater San Francisco area and was a teenager in the 60s...I did my time in Golden Gate Park & the Haight/Ashbury...it really wasn't for me. 

 

My older brother and two of his girlfriends from high school days went together to San Francisco (from West Virginia) in 1968.  They all got good jobs and lived well, but nights and weekends they were part of the whole hippy, art, and music scene.  They all loved San Francisco and everything it had to offer so much.  One of the women, now 80 years old, still lives there, in a beautiful downtown, rent controlled apartment,  volunteering at her favorite museum, and then smoking weed every day before going to dinner at one of the great restaurants.  It wasn't  for me either, but not a bad life.

[Doublemint]

Very disappointed in this episode - a first for me.   Sister Monica Joan - no way does the Church condone spiritualism, astrology, tarot cards, quija boards, talking spirits, etc. etc.    This is considered demonic and is condemned in the Bible.   The Sister would have nothing to do with any of this (include the "sign" of the bird, etc.)   I don't know what the writer was thinking.   The Sister must have gotten over her dementia because she's functioning perfectly.   By now she should have been shipped off to the Mother House at the very least. 

I preferred the 50's & early 60's.  Don't like the hippie/dippie years that are dawning now on the show.   This is only the beginning of a radical cultural shift and not for the better, for this particular show.   I miss the lighthearted fun of the girls in the earlier years.  (that actor Miranda Hart? is it).  Everyone now is so serious and grim.  

[libgirl2]

19 minutes ago, Doublemint said:

Very disappointed in this episode - a first for me.   Sister Monica Joan - no way does the Church condone spiritualism, astrology, tarot cards, quija boards, talking spirits, etc. etc.    This is considered demonic and is condemned in the Bible.   The Sister would have nothing to do with any of this (include the "sign" of the bird, etc.)   I don't know what the writer was thinking.   The Sister must have gotten over her dementia because she's functioning perfectly.   By now she should have been shipped off to the Mother House at the very least. 

I preferred the 50's & early 60's.  Don't like the hippie/dippie years that are dawning now on the show.   This is only the beginning of a radical cultural shift and not for the better, for this particular show.   I miss the lighthearted fun of the girls in the earlier years.  (that actor Miranda Hart? is it).  Everyone now is so serious and grim.  

Yes, but times marches on.... I don't know how many seasons this show is planning on going, but ugh, I hope we don't make it to the punk 70s. England was really struggling at that time. 

[Doublemint]

2 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

Yes, but times marches on.... I don't know how many seasons this show is planning on going, but ugh, I hope we don't make it to the punk 70s. England was really struggling at that time. 

Yes, it's nearly time to call it a day!(Or say goodnight).

[Shermie]

Personally, I want it to continue as long the concept of midwives and nuns delivering babies was a thing. I’d like to see how they transition to modern medicine, which they’re already doing, and how they deal with difficulties of the ‘70s. 

I guess if someone doesn’t enjoy the show anymore they can stop watching it.

[dubbel zout]

I feel like the show is popular enough it will last as long as the creators are interested.

[EllaWycliffe]

I think it can only go to the mid 1970s. Doctors doing housecalls and women birthing at home became a lot less common. Also cottage hospitals like Dr Turner's were being phased out for bigger facilities. There's only so far the concept can be milked 

[JudyObscure]

20 hours ago, Doublemint said:

Sister Monica Joan - no way does the Church condone spiritualism, astrology, tarot cards, quija boards, talking spirits, etc. etc.    This is considered demonic and is condemned in the Bible. 

Absolutely.  What would have been more believable would be  that Sister Monica Joan, Christian woman dedicated to the religious life, known to have memorized most of the Bible,  suffering from  dementia, just might have gone to see the spiritualist with this in mind: Exodus 22:18  "Thou shall not suffer a witch to live." 

LOL  Too dark?   Okay, but it's a real stretch to think she would believe in superstition and the occult when it is contrary to all she's been taught.

[Haleth]

I found it hard to believe prim and proper Miss Higgins believed in spiritualism too.

[EllaWycliffe]

To be fair, SMJ has in prior seasons been a little flakey on her beliefs. Seeing portents and signs that lean toward pagan beliefs isn't new.

[Cetacean]

21 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Okay, but it's a real stretch to think she would believe in superstition and the occult when it is contrary to all she's been taught.

No matter how brainwashed you might be by a relgion, you can always harbor some long held beliefs or suspicions.  That plus her purported dementia could explain wandering off the christian path.

[MissLucas]

35 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I found it hard to believe prim and proper Miss Higgins believed in spiritualism too.

But her spiritualism is well documented. I will never forget Nurse Crane's face when Miss Higgins brought it up for the first time. Talk about a test of friendship LOL! And it was all the rage in the 1920s and 1930s when she must have been a young woman. Both Dorothy L. Sayers and Agatha Christie wrote plots dealing with the topic. The latter used it for a horror story that I will -never- reread.

[Cetacean]

12 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

But her spiritualism is well documented. I will never forget Nurse Crane's face when Miss Higgins brought it up for the first time.

Somewhere in the back of my mind, I remember Phyllis saying she was an atheist.  I know she's a vegetarian (which has no connection, I know)  but it seems to me she had something else that made her a bit of an odd duck before we came to know and love her.

[Suzn]

45 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

But her spiritualism is well documented. I will never forget Nurse Crane's face when Miss Higgins brought it up for the first time. Talk about a test of friendship LOL! And it was all the rage in the 1920s and 1930s when she must have been a young woman. Both Dorothy L. Sayers and Agatha Christie wrote plots dealing with the topic. The latter used it for a horror story that I will -never- reread.

I'm familiar with a lot Agatha Christie wrote, but I have no idea what this is.  Is it a short story?

[MissLucas]

Yes, it's a short story. I made an effort to forget even its title. But if you Google 'Agatha Christie' 'short story' and 'seance' you should be able to find it, especially if you add 'horror'. (Seriously people always think she wrote those cozy mysteries but when she turned gothic she was terrifying.)

[Suzn]

12 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Yes, it's a short story. I made an effort to forget even its title. But if you Google 'Agatha Christie' 'short story' and 'seance' you should be able to find it, especially if you add 'horror'. (Seriously people always think she wrote those cozy mysteries but when she turned gothic she was terrifying.)

I think I've found it.  Thanks so much! 😊

[MissLucas]

3 minutes ago, Suzn said:

I think I've found it.  Thanks so much! 😊

Not sure I deserve that - but you're welcome (and don't come after me once you've read it)!

[Doublemint]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Absolutely.  What would have been more believable would be  that Sister Monica Joan, Christian woman dedicated to the religious life, known to have memorized most of the Bible,  suffering from  dementia, just might have gone to see the spiritualist with this in mind: Exodus 22:18  "Thou shall not suffer a witch to live." 

LOL  Too dark?   Okay, but it's a real stretch to think she would believe in superstition and the occult when it is contrary to all she's been taught.

THIS..  yes!

[SuzySmith]

So, was anyone else wondering if Matthew would be different when he got pot smoke blown into his face?  I thought he'd be kinda' fun high!

[natyxg]

On 4/26/2022 at 4:25 PM, Doublemint said:

Sister Monica Joan - no way does the Church condone spiritualism, astrology, tarot cards, quija boards, talking spirits, etc. etc.    This is considered demonic and is condemned in the Bible.   The Sister would have nothing to do with any of this (include the "sign" of the bird, etc.)   I don't know what the writer was thinking.  

I found it hard to believe, too. But I think they're trying to foreshadow some great tragedy to come. Trying to build up some suspense.