S13.E03: Welcome to the Future

[RealityGal]

I, too, miss MK. Off topic, but I found a pair of his skinny jeans at TJMaxx for $35! So excited!

LOL - very cool find!  As picky as he is about the fit of pants I'm sure they fit like a dream!

[Julia]

You know, what I find interesting about Sandhya's garments is the response to them. I'm not really all that enthusiastic about a spite narrative, whether someone I dislike is subjected to it or not, but the theme of empowerment interests me a lot.

 

We're talking a lot about her different perspective, and background, and influences, but almost in a vacuum, as though she's Just Plain Folks but with Pink and Shiny Things. I don't think that's true. She introduced herself by saying that she was in an arranged marriage (her parents chose, her husband agreed, she wasn't consulted), and that her family was "traditional" but in a "modern way," and that she's happy about it. Which is to say, she's subject to the total authority of a man every day of her life, but her husband lets her work outside the home, and that works for her.

 

Which, you know, awesome. Good for her. Seriously, it's not my place to tell anyone how to live, or to judge their commitment to their religion and their culture, and if she's happy, I think it's great. Unfortunately, the only "power" a woman in that situation has is the ability to manipulate outcomes within her own family and bring any resources she can to bear against outsiders on behalf of her family, because she has no explicit control over her own life. 

 

That particular tradition hasn't changed in thousands of years, and it's not going to change by 2034. When Sandhya talks about "a woman's power," she's talking about passive aggression, and that's not something Sandhya has to wait twenty years for. JMO.

 

Absent the story, which I think she cleverly allowed the judges to make what I think were some shaky assumptions about, and the dog in the manger factor, her dress the first week was arguable. The dress this week was unflattering, craft-like, costumey and cheap-looking. And I find it really interesting that the judges are becoming more and more bitchy and defensive and shrill as they're voting for garments they can't defend on any basis that won't embarrass them professionally. 

 

I'm starting to feel as if a favored spot on this show for unemployable nieces and nephews is what the Weinsteins give out to hard-to-shop-for business associates for the holidays.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Julia

[Day2Day]

Project Runway in 25 words, or less....

But.... that's what they're doin'

[qtpye]

The very last point I need to make is how hot was Emily in the picture from 1994. Like that picture should be in a magazine. She was fiercer than most of the models on this show. That picture could actually inspire amazing fashion.

 

 

A thousand times yes.  That picture would put anyone on Tyra or Heidi's Next Top Model Competitions to shame.

Edited August 9, 2014 by qtpye

[RealityGal]

But my thought on Shandaya is that she says through her clothing what she can't say in real life.  Her "audition pieces" with the traditional dress with the middle finger on the cloth, I think one of her audition pieces was a very pretty, demure dress with words of some sort on the bottom.  I don't know that thats passive aggressive, or if that is her using the one outlet she has to make a statement.  And I think that may be the only way some women in different cultures have to represent themselves.  And the message behind her dress this challenge was a strong one IMO.  While other women were clamoring to make "warrior" outfits, or the "new power suit" Shandaya was saying that right now, women are at a point where to feel equal we feel like we have to embrace those things considered traditionally "masculine"  We gotta grab pin stripe pant suits, because we want to mimic men when we go into work, a woman in a pant suit is seen as powerful, a woman in a floral dress is taken lightly.  We should get beyond that, to the point where you can be considered just as powerful a woman,even when you're rocking the floral print dress.  I think thats why she used the pink, one day pink, which is considered a feminine color can be just as much a power color as navy, or black, or grey.

[GaT]

I miss MK too :(  

And thats my beef with PR right now, because I think you are probably right to some degree.  Because its only been since they have shifted the majority of their challenges to one day challenges that they have wanted to have an up close and personal look at the losing designs.

 

I don't understand TV, so I don't understand how one less day can really effect production costs (cost of the hotel rooms and food make sense, but would that be a significant cost?)

If they have a two day challenge, then they have to film for two days & filming is expensive. 

[Julia]

But my thought on Shandaya is that she says through her clothing what she can't say in real life.  Her "audition pieces" with the traditional dress with the middle finger on the cloth, I think one of her audition pieces was a very pretty, demure dress with words of some sort on the bottom.  I don't know that thats passive aggressive, or if that is her using the one outlet she has to make a statement.  And I think that may be the only way some women in different cultures have to represent themselves.  And the message behind her dress this challenge was a strong one IMO.  While other women were clamoring to make "warrior" outfits, or the "new power suit" Shandaya was saying that right now, women are at a point where to feel equal we feel like we have to embrace those things considered traditionally "masculine"  We gotta grab pin stripe pant suits, because we want to mimic men when we go into work, a woman in a pant suit is seen as powerful, a woman in a floral dress is taken lightly.  We should get beyond that, to the point where you can be considered just as powerful a woman,even when you're rocking the floral print dress.  I think thats why she used the pink, one day pink, which is considered a feminine color can be just as much a power color as navy, or black, or grey.

 

I think you make a good point. However, as long as the actual power remains with the man in the pants, the pink becomes more of a gesture than a statement. I think that women who make what western society sees as disempowering life choices deserve to be treated with respect. If that was the statement she was making, I'd be fine with it. For women who don't share her tradtional views, though, Sandhya's view of what constitutes empowerment would be a step away from power - IOW, own your place and find power in how you live with powerlessness.

 

My earliest jobs out of school were in the days of floppy qiana bows and pinstriped summer weight wool skirtsuits, so believe me, I'm sincerely invested in women not having to be imitation men to succeed. I look at this week's dress, though, and leaving aside that it was poorly fitted, what I see is impractical, over embellished, and impossible to keep clean, and that doesn't say female power to me. That says I can afford to be strictly ornamental.

 

ETA: For me, if the show had enough nads to really embrace the message Sandhya is putting forward, they should have given the slot to Nzinga, who actually owned it.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Julia

[MortysCleaningLady]

What do I know about fashion: I loved Fade's pantsuit.  Finally something that can be fashionable and get the Wal-Mart/ Market Basket shoppers out of their lounge pj bottoms!  I also loved the Ewok hoodie (not so much the pantsuit though -- my small bladder does better in separates).  Based on what the judges wanted, I really think Christine should have won.  She actually made something more believable and I think that should count for something.

 

As for the departures, Angela was a mercy killing.  Her thought process was great though!!!!  Finance is definitely the last place to modernize.  As for the worst look, I thought it was Hernan.  Seriously.  Yuck.  Mary Poppins was pretty bad.  So was the burlap sack with the leather harness.  But the random trains that connect to one's bustier was ridiculous -- even Tina Turner's character in Mad Max would have said no to that!!!

[panthergirl13]

When Sean's model came down the runway I turned to my housemate and said look it's Father Guido Sarducci.

If I had been drinking milk when I read this, it would have shot clear out my nose.

[bencr]

Twenty years is not that far into the future. Somebody born today would be in undergraduate school 20 years from now. From that perspective, it is hard for me to imagine that Sandhya's design is the best representation of what fashion will look like 20 years from now ... 100 years, maybe, but 20? Her design is too futuristic to think it represents what might occur over a 20-year period.

I am far from a fashion historian, but my sense is that fashion is more likely to evolve over a 20-year period than to change in some "futuristic" manner.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that when you look at the change in fashion over the past 20 years, is the difference more like the difference versus today envisioned by Sandhya or by many of the other designers? In this sense Angela's concept of the 20-year future makes more sense to me than Sandhya's, ever if Angela's dress was poorly designed and sewn.

[WearyTraveler]

I agree with Angela going home.  As a woman who used to be in the business world with my own company for several years, I don't think that's modernizing the business suit at all.  I kept looking at that skirt and thinking how uncomfortable I'd be in it, sitting in a conference room for two hours trying to avoid showing my privates every time I crossed my legs to avoid a numb limb.

 

Pant suits may be perceived as an attempt to appear powerful by wearing what the men do, but, for me, pant suits were all about the comfort and versatility.  I never wore skirts to work, they are a pain when you have to run up and down stairs or jump on cabs to go from meeting to meeting.  Not to mention you'd have to wear stockings and they are the most uncomfortable, constricting thing, ever.  And you have to keep your legs completely hair free every day, which is a hassle.  Not that I walk around with hairy legs, mind you, but if you only wear skirts, you can't be even one day late on the waxing/shaving and sometimes, if you're in the business world, that's not logistically possible.
 

Don't even get me started on heels! Do you know how awful it is to go for a meeting with a client, then inviting them to lunch to a nearby restaurant within walking distance and having to walk through the pain and the sidewalk cracks as fast as the men do in their flat comfortable loafers?  The evolution of the female business outfit would be one that allows her to be comfortable without getting any judgment for it, and, strangely enough, judgment is usually harder, meaner and more frequently coming from other women, not men.

I don't think any of these people know what working in an office entails, and I don't know what job Angela had in Wall Street, but I'm telling you right now, as a working woman, I prefer a pant suit, with flats, in muted tones that I can color coordinate with my existing shirts, tops, purses and shoes, so that I don't have to waste three hours getting ready in the morning just so I can look "fashionable".  If the future evolves toward more practical fashions, and I think it will (look at people like Zuckerberg and Gates who wore a suit after they got rich, not before), Angela's outfit was a total fail. So, based on that alone, I think she should have been offed.

 

Moving on to jumpsuits.  I too I'm over them.  To misquote Friends, I was never "under" them.  I think the trend started the season of Gretchen, way back when, and since I saw them make their comeback, all I can think off when I see a jumpsuit is the fashions on The Love Boat (yeah, I'm that old). Jumpsuits are not the future, they are the now (and barely), so I wouldn't have awarded the win to any jumpsuits.

 

I agreed with the top three, though.  After that, whoever gets the win is a highly subjective thing, so, I don't usually have complaints in that regard.  I agree with Tom and Lorenzo's assessment, so I guess I'm ok with Sandhya winning, even though I didn't much like her dress.  I think she's creative. I didn't like it last episode when she was all "nobody listens to me".  I almost always hate it when people say that because what they really mean is "they are not doing it my way".  Her team did listen to her, they just didn't agree and it was their asses on the line, not hers because she had immunity.  I think she shares the blame with Hernan for that loss.  And I didn't like her attitude and demeanor then, victimizing herself so quickly.  Later though, she was a bit more flexible, so I give her credit for that.  And also the benefit of the doubt because editing does play a big role in how these people are portrayed.
 

 

I, too, remember a thing from an early Bravo Season, about using double-sided tape being a no-no.  Apparently, that's changed on Lifetime.

 

Double-sided tape is a no-no, as is gluing the outfit to the model.  But taping a model's breast so they stay in position when using a bra with the outfit is not possible, is permitted.  Sadly, this has been a Hollywood fashion "secret" for decades.  They even make rounded tape strips shaped specifically for breasts for this purpose.  I think that's what Hernan was doing, although it's hard to tell from the angle and the fact that the tape was black.  He might not have broken any rules.

 

I'm so glad someone else (forget who) brought up Angela's weird "my feet are thin" response when someone called her out for stomping around. Super weird.

 

I think what she meant by that, but didn't manage to convey properly, is that her sandals clack and clump on the floor when she runs because they are loose on her feet since they are so narrow.  The sound of people wearing flip flops going down the stairs drives me crazy, which is why I noticed the sound has nothing to do with a person's lightness of step, but with the fact that the flip flops don't completely adhere to a person's foot, so they clop and clap as the person walks.  That's what I think she meant.

Edited August 9, 2014 by WearyTraveler

[ElectricBoogaloo]

doubt if she was over-praised by her parents. I got way more of the vibe of someone who'd been terrorized by a pair of Tiger Parents - meaning she was rarely or never praised by them, just expected to excel. Thus her need to get the best grade from teacher in all her outside activities, and the passive-aggression that I think is often the result of parental bullying.

ITA - in addition I would guess that she excelled in school, following directions, etc. which means she probably wasn't criticized much by her teachers and possibly in the work place. So it is likely that being given the freedom to be creative really is the first time she had been consistently criticized and told what she was doing wasn't good enough.

[Kromm]

You know, what I find interesting about Sandhya's garments is the response to them. I'm not really all that enthusiastic about a spite narrative, whether someone I dislike is subjected to it or not, but the theme of empowerment interests me a lot.

 

We're talking a lot about her different perspective, and background, and influences, but almost in a vacuum, as though she's Just Plain Folks but with Pink and Shiny Things. I don't think that's true. She introduced herself by saying that she was in an arranged marriage (her parents chose, her husband agreed, she wasn't consulted), and that her family was "traditional" but in a "modern way," and that she's happy about it. Which is to say, she's subject to the total authority of a man every day of her life, but her husband lets her work outside the home, and that works for her.

 

Which, you know, awesome. Good for her. Seriously, it's not my place to tell anyone how to live, or to judge their commitment to their religion and their culture, and if she's happy, I think it's great. Unfortunately, the only "power" a woman in that situation has is the ability to manipulate outcomes within her own family and bring any resources she can to bear against outsiders on behalf of her family, because she has no explicit control over her own life. 

 

That particular tradition hasn't changed in thousands of years, and it's not going to change by 2034. When Sandhya talks about "a woman's power," she's talking about passive aggression, and that's not something Sandhya has to wait twenty years for. JMO.

 

Absent the story, which I think she cleverly allowed the judges to make what I think were some shaky assumptions about, and the dog in the manger factor, her dress the first week was arguable. The dress this week was unflattering, craft-like, costumey and cheap-looking. And I find it really interesting that the judges are becoming more and more bitchy and defensive and shrill as they're voting for garments they can't defend on any basis that won't embarrass them professionally. 

 

I'm starting to feel as if a favored spot on this show for unemployable nieces and nephews is what the Weinsteins give out to hard-to-shop-for business associates for the holidays.

Sandaya's problem is that her narrative is close to unexplained in the context she's presenting it--so if there IS another layer it comes off as nonsense rather than reasoned.  "Strong woman" may be a bunch of hopeless cliches, typically illustrated by crap like pseudo-armor, or masculine lines, or other nonsense, but in her hands she's simply spouting the phrase, using a color like Pink to signify "female", then apparently throwing random crap on top of it.  Maybe there are other cultural cues within those garments that communicate "strong", as directly as pink signifies "woman", but she's dealing with a Western audience and nobody is explaining those.  Or... they aren't there at all and she's just spouting bullshit.

[MizArk]

Agree with several points made already: the judges are afraid to look like they don't "get" Sandaya's vision, she's having trouble matching her product with her story, I don't think fashion will change that much in 20 years -- but then I've seen several double-decades pass without great, "futuristic" changes. Agree with WearyTraveler that tight mini skirts and sky-high heels do not convey power, though I don't fault other women from feeling good in them. My thirtysomething scientist daughter and I watch Hollywood Game Night for laughs and it always stands out to us that the male players show up in jeans, sweatshirts, sneakers -- game-playing clothes -- while the women are generally in skin tight, low-cut dresses and ridiculously high heels that actually handicap them in some of the games. Makes no sense, but it's sad they feel they have to dress that way to win approval rather than showing up dressed to compete comfortably. Which is why I liked Fade's idea, if not entirely his execution. I wonder if his is actually more the realistic glimpse of the future than Sandaya's (I know there's an H somewhere in her name, but I'm too lazy to look it up -- hence, the comfy clothes I'm wearing at the moment, and well, most moments, actually).

[auntlada]

Twenty years is not that far into the future. Somebody born today would be in undergraduate school 20 years from now. From that perspective, it is hard for me to imagine that Sandhya's design is the best representation of what fashion will look like 20 years from now ... 100 years, maybe, but 20? Her design is too futuristic to think it represents what might occur over a 20-year period.

I am far from a fashion historian, but my sense is that fashion is more likely to evolve over a 20-year period than to change in some "futuristic" manner.

 

I agree, but I also think the designers have to try to think like the judges (which seems to be an impossibility since they seem to judge on a whim not on any consistent thought process). And the judges would probably think the world will be ending in 20-30 years, and fashion will have changed drastically. We'll be living on the moon, etc. I think they think fashion changes as quickly as technology, when the truth is there's only so much you can do with clothes, and big differences take a long time and usually involve influences from previously unknown cultures, which are difficult to come by these days.

[SSAHotchner]

But my thought on Shandaya is that she says through her clothing what she can't say in real life.  Her "audition pieces" with the traditional dress with the middle finger on the cloth, I think one of her audition pieces was a very pretty, demure dress with words of some sort on the bottom.  I don't know that thats passive aggressive, or if that is her using the one outlet she has to make a statement.  And I think that may be the only way some women in different cultures have to represent themselves.  And the message behind her dress this challenge was a strong one IMO.  While other women were clamoring to make "warrior" outfits, or the "new power suit" Shandaya was saying that right now, women are at a point where to feel equal we feel like we have to embrace those things considered traditionally "masculine"  We gotta grab pin stripe pant suits, because we want to mimic men when we go into work, a woman in a pant suit is seen as powerful, a woman in a floral dress is taken lightly.  We should get beyond that, to the point where you can be considered just as powerful a woman,even when you're rocking the floral print dress.  I think thats why she used the pink, one day pink, which is considered a feminine color can be just as much a power color as navy, or black, or grey.

I actually like pink, but the dress was ugly, and I still challenge Heidi and Nina to find anybody that would wear it. I want to see them wear it. I don't care what her story is. I don't dislike her as a person. I just don't think anything she's shown so far in the competition was attractive.

[RealityGal]

I actually like pink, but the dress was ugly, and I still challenge Heidi and Nina to find anybody that would wear it. I want to see them wear it. I don't care what her story is. I don't dislike her as a person. I just don't think anything she's shown so far in the competition was attractive.

Honestly, I think a lot of editorial dresses are ugly.  I don't know if they are fashion meant for the average person to wear.  I don't think the dress was ugly per se, but I can certainly see where people are coming from when they say that they think it is ugly because its very very different.  But my feeling is that editorial dresses are supposed to be those that make you stop and think.  I think they are the ones in the magazine that should make you pause and have a reaction.

 

I do care what the story is, because the story seemed to be part of the challenge and i think it helped to put the designs in context.  Why is this design something that represents the future?  And as someone else mentioned I certainly think Shandaya's, Mitchells, and Sean's visions went much further than 20 years into the future, because unless Mitchell knows something I don't know I'm not entirely sure we'll all be living underwater in 20 years, or that there will be so much overcrowding that I can only wear minimalist clothing (although apparently I'll be wearing black socks and heels????)  And I think Shandaya's story was powerful, and I knew I was going to like her design just because she used color...and yes, so did Angela, but hers just screamed church lady hoochie easter suit.  Maybe because I've seen that shade before in suits, but its been for women going to church....on easter.

 

But its not to say that I don't understand where people are coming from when they say that they don't get Shandaya's look, its certainly not a by the numbers, pretty look, its very different, but I think if I were to open a magazine and see that in a picture it would make me stop and wonder what it was all about.

[Milaxx]

I totally understand Sandhya's win. I even understand why the judges seem to like her. She's doing something new and eye catching. The other designers are making mall clothes. Her first win asked for runway, she gave them runway. If you watch the big shows there's always one or two pieces that never make the sales floor. They are there soley to entertain and punch up the rest of the collection. These are the pieces you see models & actresses wearing on the cover of magazines.  I also think Sandhya has benefited from challenges where such editorial looks would be acceptable. It will be interesting to see what she does when faced with a ready to wear challenge.

 

Honestly the only real contenders were Kristine and Sandhya. Everything else was either just plain ugly or something I could buy now. What I think gave Sandhya the edge was the judges up close scrutiny. Then you could see how much work went into each look. As cool as Kristine's was, she didn't have to do any finishing because the jacket was made of neoprene. The most skill that required was making sure the cuts were even. So basically Kristine made a dress and a jacket. Sandhya had to do a lot of handwork to make those strips mimic metal tubing.  As for Emily, her model tried her best to sell that look, but Nina was right, it's just a jumpsuit. That's more 2013 than 2034. Her model is to be commended, but she didn't deserve to be any more than safe.

As for the aufs. There were plenty of worse designs on that runway. Hernan and his "questionable taste level" being one, but I suspect after a season of semi mental designers like the recycle guy, the guy that pushed(?)/threatened the camera guy and hot head Ken, the producers may have decided she was just too fragile for this show and decided it was her time.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Milaxx

[NikSac]

Honestly, I think a lot of editorial dresses are ugly. <snip>

 

Maybe because I've seen that shade before in suits, but its been for women going to church....on easter.

 

I agree on the editorial dresses. My little sister is getting into fashion modeling and some of those dresses just blow me away - they're often beautiful but make me say "who would wear that (if it wasn't in a fashion show)?"

 

Re that dress/suit and the shade... yeah I agree with going to church on Easter but then there's that length so short that most people actually would need a gift certificate for a Brazilian. (referring back to Tim's comments on the pant cutouts in an earlier episode)  Yeesh.  I was afraid they were going to show something they shouldn't just during filming, especially if she sat down for some reason.  I can't quite see that as church outfit, but maybe. 

Edited August 10, 2014 by NikSac

[angelasum]

Hi PR fans, I'm angela sum.  Sorry it was so hard to watch me, it was hard for me too! I don't get to control how i'm portrayed. :P

I more so just have some awkward mannerisms being an introvert, I guess it doesn't come well on tv.  There's a lot of times tho I'm not as stressed as i appeared, words were cut or facial expressions that didnt follow.  I am a bit emotional I admit, but I was also continually pushed in the bottom, which confused me.  (To be fair, Alex cried too the first time he was on the bottom, and I had to deal with this over and over again.  It's intense and we don't get much time to heal.)  I can't say all my work is the best either but I had ideas and took risks (the lapel blazer thing was an idea i was excited to try.. probably normally i'd not have done a suit with a skirt.. but maybe an outfit with pair of jeans...).  I'm emo but never was I gonna have a nervous breakdown.  And I did work on wall street, I'm usually the only girl techie amongst a lot of strong men--trust me I voice out strongly and objectively (You have to find the fine line between being called 'aggressive' and 'stepped over'--I'm defn not that, but I've learned to be objective over appearing too aggressive.)  Now i'm blabbling :P

Anyways, not here to defend myself or argue, I put myself up for display, so...,But PR gets to share their story, why don't i share my side? ;)
Pls check out my blog www.angelasum.com/blog, there's more to what it seams! lol
anyways, i'm just an artist, nerd, not an actress.  I was very sincere, raw, and I didn't filter, so i guess i gave them a lot, too much, material to use.
I'm going to keep blogging the episodes there, watching out for things that aren't so apparent ;)

Edited August 10, 2014 by angelasum

[panthergirl13]

Interesting to read about your experience, Angela. This is what stood out to me from your blog entry:

 

"Tim specifically said it was not to be anything futuristic.  He said it's like if it was 20 years ago and we are designing for now; he said something along the lines of its not like we are wearing space suits now.  So for me, 20 years isn't that different."

 

This is EXACTLY what I was thinking during this episode...20 years isn't that far in the future (ok, I will be ancient so I try not to think about it too much). It wasn't The Jetsons challenge. 

[Diane Mars]

Thanks for sharing your experience and feelings with us, @angelasum !

[auntlada]

While I thought the length of the skirt in Angela's suit was too short for me, I didn't think it was as short as the skirts Ally McBeal wore (which everyone called unrealistic then -- and they were). I've seen women wearing skirts that short, sometimes to the office, but not in a suit and definitely not with hose and pumps (usually some form of flip-flops) because they were younger women. Mind you, I thought they were inappropriately dressed for work, but then, I'm old.

[Day2Day]

@angelasum, thanks for joining us here at our "Fashion Forum".

[KimberStormer]

Hi @angelasum!  Thanks for stopping by!  I don't think any of your looks deserved the harsh criticism they got.  I still think they were crazy wrong about your first look and got you off on the wrong foot.  I'm an introvert too and Lord knows what I would be like under all that pressure.  I hope you feel like you got something positive from the experience.

 

My sister wants me to say that she loves you and believes in your talent! 

[alrightythen]

To and regarding Angela Sum:  I do feel you got an unfair edit and the constant "you look nervous/terrified" comments from Tim, et al were really excessive and unnecessary.  Sandhya cried to Tim about being picked on and she got sympathy.  Helen cried on a regular basis and Tim even stopped the runway for her.  I think you handled your departure with class and I wish you the best. 

 

I think the producers know who they want to win from the get-go and manipulate the editing and judging to go in their favor.  I don't believe for a second that the judges watch the runway shows blindly with no knowledge of what went on in the workroom.  Their questions to certain designers have a suspicious tint of workroom events.

 

I would've auffed Alexander and his burlap sack.  He got a pass because it wasn't his original design and the judges seemed relieved to hear that.  How about the fact that he didn't execute his original design (uniboob) properly so he had to throw something together?  I didn't hear "no excuses" from the judges on that one. 

[RealityGal]

I agree on the editorial dresses. My little sister is getting into fashion modeling and some of those dresses just blow me away - they're often beautiful but make me say "who would wear that (if it wasn't in a fashion show)?"

 

Re that dress/suit and the shade... yeah I agree with going to church on Easter but then there's that length so short that most people actually would need a gift certificate for a Brazilian. (referring back to Tim's comments on the pant cutouts in an earlier episode)  Yeesh.  I was afraid they were going to show something they shouldn't just during filming, especially if she sat down for some reason.  I can't quite see that as church outfit, but maybe. 

 

LOL.  I totally thought Hernan's model might have a nip slip.  Yeah, where was Tim with that witty comment when it might actually apply, instead of to pants where it totally didn't apply?  LMAO - I could maybe see it as a church outfit for a reformed hoochie, but I think its really the color that got me thinking about church.

 

There was a dress a contestant made when Pharrell was judging, and it was beautiful, it was this beautiful caged dress, but it was just so out of this world.  But thats part of my love for PR, I couldn't wear a good 80% of the clothes, and another 10% are clothes you couldn't wear anywhere but a fashion show, but some of the clothes are just so pretty.

 

I hope your sister is having a good time as a model, it sounds like so much pressure, but I sure wouldn't mind living the life of having my hair and makeup done on a daily basis!

[Julia]

I'm usually the only girl techie amongst a lot of strong men

 

It's what, less than one in ten engineers are women? IT at my company is a complete sausagefest. It doesn't sound like a job for people who crumble under social pressure. 

[Rhetorica]

Thank you angelasum for posting. I look forward to reading your thoughts. You exited with dignity and I wish you success.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

We're talking a lot about her different perspective, and background, and influences, but almost in a vacuum, as though she's Just Plain Folks but with Pink and Shiny Things. I don't think that's true. She introduced herself by saying that she was in an arranged marriage (her parents chose, her husband agreed, she wasn't consulted), and that her family was "traditional" but in a "modern way," and that she's happy about it. Which is to say, she's subject to the total authority of a man every day of her life, but her husband lets her work outside the home, and that works for her.

It's true that the show has not really explained her home situation, but then they rarely do with any of the contestants - if Sanhya's marriage had not been an arranged one, and thus odd and hard to understand for most American viewers, we wouldn't even wonder why we weren't finding out more about it.  I do want to say though, that based on what I know from others in arranged marriages, that it's not a case of the wife being "subject to the total authority" of her husband.  It's that both the husband AND the wife are subject to the scrutiny and the authority of the community they belong to.  I'd bet the marriage was arranged by BOTH sets of parents and likely by other community authority figures.  It's the whole "it takes a village" idea - on the one hand they can depend on the complete support of that community, BUT they are required to live within its standards.

 

For me, if the show had enough nads to really embrace the message Sandhya is putting forward, they should have given the slot to Nzinga, who actually owned it.

The problem Nzinga would have had, as I said in her thread, is the same one the vegetarian chef on Top Chef had a few seasons back.  Sooner or later she was going to have to design SOMETHING in which either the arms or legs or both were going to have to be uncovered, and she would not be able to do that.  In her real life as a designer this wouldn't matter because she'd be designing for a clientele that wanted exactly what she offers.  But she'd have problems following the rules of this TV game show.   Whatever restrictions Sandhya may have (and we don't even know what they are)  they don't seem include those kind of modesty requirements.

 

ETA: Thank you, Angela, for coming here to give us some idea of your experiences on the show.  Best of luck to you in a (hopefully) less arbitrarily crazy environment.

Edited August 10, 2014 by ratgirlagogo

[candall]

Pant suits may be perceived as an attempt to appear powerful by wearing what the men do, but, for me, pant suits were all about the comfort and versatility.  I never wore skirts to work, they are a pain when you have to run up and down stairs or jump on cabs to go from meeting to meeting.  Not to mention you'd have to wear stockings and they are the most uncomfortable, constricting thing, ever.  And you have to keep your legs completely hair free every day, which is a hassle.  Not that I walk around with hairy legs, mind you, but if you only wear skirts, you can't be even one day late on the waxing/shaving and sometimes, if you're in the business world, that's not logistically possible.

 

Don't even get me started on heels! Do you know how awful it is to go for a meeting with a client, then inviting them to lunch to a nearby restaurant within walking distance and having to walk through the pain and the sidewalk cracks as fast as the men do in their flat comfortable loafers?  The evolution of the female business outfit would be one that allows her to be comfortable without getting any judgment for it, and, strangely enough, judgment is usually harder, meaner and more frequently coming from other women, not men.

 I prefer a pant suit, with flats, in muted tones that I can color coordinate with my existing shirts, tops, purses and shoes, so that I don't have to waste three hours getting ready in the morning just so I can look "fashionable".  If the future evolves toward more practical fashions, and I think it will (look at people like Zuckerberg and Gates who wore a suit after they got rich, not before), Angela's outfit was a total fail. So, based on that alone, I think she should have been offed.

Love this post.

 

Men have a huge professional advantage with their "uniform"--the standard issue business suit.  My whole working life I watched women struggle to find a neutral point between "too feminine" and "too masculine."  Criminal trial juries will spend the first 30 minutes dissecting a female attorney's outfit--too short, unflattering color, trousers inappropriate for courtroom?  Her "fashion sense" has an early influence on her case, dependably negative, before she ever opens her mouth.  A male attorney has to walk in and immediately spill his glass of water all over his papers to move himself so far back from the starting line.  

 

A team of people will be trying to dress Clinton so the focus can stay on her platform instead of her wardrobe.   Good luck with that.

 

A really GOOD 20-year challenge would be businesswoman workwear.  Any designer requiring double-sided tape and any garment eliciting "Brazilian" remarks would automatically default to the bottom.

Edited August 10, 2014 by candall

[BarneySays]

I cannot help but feel we are watching Project Runway:  The Stanford Experiment.  The entire show seems to be fomenting as much hostility as possible in the hope that the whole cast goes nuts with rage.  (Let's not forget that last week's teams were producer-selected.)  I loved Sandhiya's first look and thought she deserved the win, but thought this seconed win was merely designed to poke at the other contestants.  (Heh-heh, we're fucking with you all to ramp up the paranoia and anxiety.)  I liked the recycling concept, but none of that came through in the dress.  I do think she has a viewpoint, which is always fun to watch IMO, but I think this was a definite misfire. 

 

Seriously.  It's fun to watch the two top/bottom 3 with her.  People are SO SURE Sandhya's at the bottom and then she starts getting praise.  People had done the math and thought they were on the top and you can see their "oh shit" looks as they start sweating.  That's good television.

Yeah.  The most amusing moment in the episode was watching Sean's face as he did the math and realized his Miss Marple of the Future look was in the bottom group. 

 

[ratgirlagogo]

 

I cannot help but feel we are watching Project Runway:  The Stanford Experiment.  The entire show seems to be fomenting as much hostility as possible in the hope that the whole cast goes nuts with rage.

Oh, you are too funny.  Although I do think they've been banging away in this direction for a few seasons now.

[SSAHotchner]

I totally understand Sandhya's win. I even understand why the judges seem to like her. She's doing something new and eye catching. The other designers are making mall clothes. Her first win asked for runway, she gave them runway. If you watch the big shows there's always one or two pieces that never make the sales floor. They are there soley to entertain and punch up the rest of the collection. These are the pieces you see models & actresses wearing on the cover of magazines.  I also think Sandhya has benefited from challenges where such editorial looks would be acceptable. It will be interesting to see what she does when faced with a ready to wear challenge.

 

Honestly the only real contenders were Kristine and Sandhya. Everything else was either just plain ugly or something I could buy now. What I think gave Sandhya the edge was the judges up close scrutiny. Then you could see how much work went into each look. As cool as Kristine's was, she didn't have to do any finishing because the jacket was made of neoprene. The most skill that required was making sure the cuts were even. So basically Kristine made a dress and a jacket. Sandhya had to do a lot of handwork to make those strips mimic metal tubing.  As for Emily, her model tried her best to sell that look, but Nina was right, it's just a jumpsuit. That's more 2013 than 2034. Her model is to be commended, but she didn't deserve to be any more than safe.

As for the aufs. There were plenty of worse designs on that runway. Hernan and his "questionable taste level" being one, but I suspect after a season of semi mental designers like the recycle guy, the guy that pushed(?)/threatened the camera guy and hot head Ken, the producers may have decided she was just too fragile for this show and decided it was her time.

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with you on both of her winning looks. That first look looked like rag bag to me. And, again, I challenge Heidi and Nina to wear it. Go ahead. Show up on the red carpet in that. Wear something like that while you're hosting Project Runway. It looked ugly, torn and dirty. Not a fan.

[Julia]

It's true that the show has not really explained her home situation, but then they rarely do with any of the contestants - if Sanhya's marriage had not been an arranged one, and thus odd and hard to understand for most American viewers, we wouldn't even wonder why we weren't finding out more about it.  I do want to say though, that based on what I know from others in arranged marriages, that it's not a case of the wife being "subject to the total authority" of her husband.  It's that both the husband AND the wife are subject to the scrutiny and the authority of the community they belong to.  I'd bet the marriage was arranged by BOTH sets of parents and likely by other community authority figures.  It's the whole "it takes a village" idea - on the one hand they can depend on the complete support of that community, BUT they are required to live within its standards.

 

It's possible. She described it as her future husband being allowed to make the choice after her parents contacted him, but she was clearly trying hard to make her life accessible to the audience.

 

I totally hear you about the community - my nonna came from a small mountain village in Italy, and she died at 99 still incredibly sensitive to the judgment of the people around her, because the people she grew up around had no trouble with shunning a whole family if someone did something they had a problem with,. That can be terrifying if you rely on those people.

 

That said, I very, very much doubt that Zac and Nina are reading Sandhya's talk about strong women as meaning "finding the empowerment in having your limitations crowdsourced by a conservative patriarchal community." I doubt anyone on the judging panel would find that particularly empowering, and I think Sandhya's being a bit disingenuous here. 

[ratgirlagogo]

 

That said, I very, very much doubt that Zac and Nina are reading Sandhya's talk about strong women as meaning "finding the empowerment in having your limitations crowdsourced by a conservative patriarchal community." I doubt anyone on the judging panel would find that particularly empowering, and I think Sandhya's being a bit disingenuous here.

I think "disingenuous" might be putting it a bit strongly, but yes, she knows her audience, that's for sure.  And Zac making comments like "you're really making good use of your heritage" or whatever it was he said about her use of colors and metallics - the show seems eager to go for stereotypes, not for the first time.  Patricia and Anya  and Mondo and Korto played up to this "exotic" theme as well.

[Milaxx]

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with you on both of her winning looks. That first look looked like rag bag to me. And, again, I challenge Heidi and Nina to wear it. Go ahead. Show up on the red carpet in that. Wear something like that while you're hosting Project Runway. It looked ugly, torn and dirty. Not a fan.

 

The point is not to actually wear it on the red carpet. That's why I said they were both editorial looks. They are work well as runway designs or on magazine covers. That's the beauty of fashion and in part Project Runway. It's not all about ready to wear clothing. 

 

I don't think NIna could, would or should wear 95% of the garments that walk down the runway.

 

IIRC when Nina is doing that thing she does where she holds up her cards to look at a garment, she's trying to imagine said garment on a magazine cover. In other words she's trying to imagine how it would look as an editorial shoot.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Milaxx

[Zahdii]

I guess I just don't know fashion.  If you have to organize a runway show to wear a particular outfit, what is the point of said outfit?

[angelasum]

Awww, thanks guys, I really appreciate you guys coming over and reading my thoughts, my side of the story.  Keep sharing my blog, I'd love to share more, be it PR, my passion, or fashion stuff.  No worries on any comments, there's always 2 sides to every story.  I'm glad I was able to share mine with the few of you ;)
Defn follow me on fb/twitter/instagram for updates '@byangelasum'.  I actually jsut added a second part to my afterthoughts blog, had a few things more I wanted to say.
Feel free to comment, ask questions--I might not b able to answer tho but I'll try to b honest and objective.
PR didnt work out so well for me, not really one side's fault, it happened that way.  But without it I wouldn't be able to say.. share stuff with like you guys and such ;)  Passion is there to connect people.  Never did I realize there's so many passionate PR fans ;D

[TaraS1]

For some reason, I feel a very unhealthy rage in my heart about Sandhya. From the ridiculous whining from last week about being picked on (do not waste Tim's time with that!) to her winning with that silly dress with the giant Slinkys attached to it this week? She's perilously close to moving into Kenley/Gretchen territory for me. Poor Christine got screwed out of a win that she deserved.

[Kromm]

Interesting to read about your experience, Angela. This is what stood out to me from your blog entry:

 

"Tim specifically said it was not to be anything futuristic.  He said it's like if it was 20 years ago and we are designing for now; he said something along the lines of its not like we are wearing space suits now.  So for me, 20 years isn't that different."

 

This is EXACTLY what I was thinking during this episode...20 years isn't that far in the future (ok, I will be ancient so I try not to think about it too much). It wasn't The Jetsons challenge. 

That exact thing is a big part of why I thought it was total bullshit that they were overpraising Sandhya's crap so much.  Sandhya's look was "pink mess with cliched futuristic detailing and a vague message about female power".  It was exactly what Angela is implying Tim said NOT to do.  

Edited August 10, 2014 by Kromm

[Kromm]

Awww, thanks guys, I really appreciate you guys coming over and reading my thoughts, my side of the story.  Keep sharing my blog, I'd love to share more, be it PR, my passion, or fashion stuff.  No worries on any comments, there's always 2 sides to every story.  I'm glad I was able to share mine with the few of you ;)

Defn follow me on fb/twitter/instagram for updates '@byangelasum'.  I actually jsut added a second part to my afterthoughts blog, had a few things more I wanted to say.

Feel free to comment, ask questions--I might not b able to answer tho but I'll try to b honest and objective.

PR didnt work out so well for me, not really one side's fault, it happened that way.  But without it I wouldn't be able to say.. share stuff with like you guys and such ;)  Passion is there to connect people.  Never did I realize there's so many passionate PR fans ;D

There's nothing wrong with being a reasonably sensitive person, Angela.  It may mean you don't belong on TV, but if we actually determined people's worth based on their appropriateness for TV reality shows, we'd be hopeless as a society (we come close by elevating people like the Kardashians, but since we hold them up as a kind of circus act, it's not like most people actually admire them). 

 

I said in another thread that watching you on the show kind of made my teeth hurt.  But it was with sympathy.  I don't think you were trying to stoke anyone's pity (not that I haven't thought that about other contestants this show has had, but what you were projecting came off as fairly legitimate).  And in the episode 1 thread I said outright that Heidi calling you out the way she did was one of the most despicable things I've seen on this show.  I stand by that.  From your blog you do appear to be fairly naive about how hyper-competitive people function, but again, that's alright to be.  Your success should be measured by your own standards--just don't count on people around you so much to act in line with your ideals.

[RealityGal]

For some reason, I feel a very unhealthy rage in my heart about Sandhya. From the ridiculous whining from last week about being picked on (do not waste Tim's time with that!) to her winning with that silly dress with the giant Slinkys attached to it this week? She's perilously close to moving into Kenley/Gretchen territory for me. Poor Christine got screwed out of a win that she deserved.

 

I wasn't a fan of Christine's look, so M definately V's on that.  Lately I've seen solid fabrics overlaid with a more see through fabric (case in point, the mini-maxi skirt) so it doesn't seem all that fashion forward to me.  It really didn't remind me of clueless, and I'm not sure what Cher would think about it.  The jacket was cool, but it wasn't anything that set my world on fire, but it was very well constructed, even if I didn't really think the floating bands were that special.  

 

But I was all about Kini's look!  I wish he would have used a little color, because I think thats some part of the reason that some of the middle designs that were awesome were in the middle, because it was so much black and grey and darkness.

[Milaxx]

I agree with this explanation. It reminds of the dress that would not die in 2013. It made a few red carpet appearances, but its success was, by and large, due to its editorial use by seemingly every publication on the planet. 

 

Edited to (hopefully) fix image links.

Yes exactly! There are few dresses each season like this. Cropped and/or angled just right on a magazine cover they look gorgeous. On the RC they end up looking a bit silly.

[GaT]

The point is not to actually wear it on the red carpet. That's why I said they were both editorial looks. They are work well as runway designs or on magazine covers. That's the beauty of fashion and in part Project Runway. It's not all about ready to wear clothing. 

 

IIRC when Nina is doing that thing she does where she holds up her cards to look at a garment, she's trying to imagine said garment on a magazine cover. In other words she's trying to imagine how it would look as an editorial shoot.

 

 

I guess I just don't know fashion.  If you have to organize a runway show to wear a particular outfit, what is the point of said outfit?

I think it's like hairdressing shows. If you've ever seen one, your first thought would be "who the hell would wear their hair like that?" They aren't designing things to be worn, they're designing things to show off what they can do.

 

Edited August 11, 2014 by GaT

[Milaxx]

I guess I just don't know fashion.  If you have to organize a runway show to wear a particular outfit, what is the point of said outfit?

 

Because fashion is also an art form so sometimes it's not so much about clothing, it's about expressing themselves through art. In this instance the art form just so happens to be clothing. They aren't organizing a runway show to show off a particular outfit, they are expressing their art in a runway show Think about someone like Alexander McQueen. One of his last shows his theme was aliens. He created 12 inch high hoof shoes. Now no one expected to see those shoes being sold at Macy's, certainly no one expected anyone to wear them on the red carpet. The same goes for the hair,makeup and clothes the models wore. It was art, designed to look at and appreciate (or not).  Here's actress Salma Hyek wearing a dress from the collection on the cover of InStyle. In real life it's unlikely that anyone would wear that dress. The skirt is bumpy and uneven and the hem is weird. Now here's a modified version she wore to an event. It's not quite as successful, even toned down. Why? Because the dress is more editorial than ready to wear. 

[NikSac]

There was a dress a contestant made when Pharrell was judging, and it was beautiful, it was this beautiful caged dress, but it was just so out of this world.  But thats part of my love for PR, I couldn't wear a good 80% of the clothes, and another 10% are clothes you couldn't wear anywhere but a fashion show, but some of the clothes are just so pretty.

 

I hope your sister is having a good time as a model, it sounds like so much pressure, but I sure wouldn't mind living the life of having my hair and makeup done on a daily basis!

 

True - I like that maybe 80% are wearable with some modifications (for example the mini-mini-mini skirt could be made longer and look ok in another color).  I'm not sure that winning dress was salvageable anywhere but the runway personally, but maybe it wasn't intended to be a "real world" outfit. I was kind of confused by this whole challenge honestly.

 

My sister's loving the modeling. She actually wants to audition for America's Next Top Model and/or Project Runway when she's old enough. Would you believe she's done bridal shows since she was 14 and she's now getting "too old" for it at 17?  That creeped me out!  I had no idea most of those "brides" in magazines and fashion shows were SO young. I'd be so excited to see her on either of these shows one day and I think she's got a decent shot at them once she turns 18.

[NikSac]

Oh oops I see now I was a page or two behind but wanted to quickly add @angelasum thanks for posting here!  I really like seeing/reading the "behind the scenes" perspective.

[Julia]

I think somewhere in the infinitely recursive symbolism of Sandhya's dress there's a basic conflict between empowered woman making do with recycled materials to transform the things which were not valued in the past into the fashion of the future and unwearable gauds designed specifically to be seen in an aspirational magazine by women who couldn't afford to wear it if it were wearable.

 

JMO.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Julia

[beaker73]

For some reason, I feel a very unhealthy rage in my heart about Sandhya. From the ridiculous whining from last week about being picked on (do not waste Tim's time with that!) to her winning with that silly dress with the giant Slinkys attached to it this week? She's perilously close to moving into Kenley/Gretchen territory for me. Poor Christine got screwed out of a win that she deserved.

You know what? I completely agree with this.  Maybe there was a lot more to what we saw, but I in no way felt that she was being picked on by Carrie and Hernan.  That whole sit down with Tim was absurd.  As far as this week's winning dress--pffffttt!   I get that the judges' wanted editorial--hell I love seeing interesting, creative, editorial designs on this show, but it was a Pepto Bismal sheath with some gold leather and embellishments sewn on.  I saw zero design in that outfit. Zero.