Memory Lane: Seasons 1-5

[hoodooznoodooz]

10 hours ago, dosodog said:

I have not arrived in Morocco yet.  We just now left the Hamptons and Quogg the Wastelands...

Cindy doesn't fit.  So far.  Ramona is whackadoodle.  It is not up to her, or anyone but the deceased who left a will and the surviving partner, to decide who gets to have personal possessions.  That whole thing about the cigar was atrocious and Ramona has no shame.  None.

I had to turn off the show because I had the urge to start yelling at her when she was shaking and overwrought at the birthday party.  In front of the dead man's parents.  She is just awful.

Sonja is pretentious. And incredibly snobby.  With a high opinion of herself.  But I finally got to see her with a toaster oven.

On a more positive note.  Jaques!  Should I not like him?  Because right now I do and I think Luann is dumb to let him get away.

Jacques was terrific. Lu cheated on him with the pirate, didn’t she? 

[ghoulina]

On 3/2/2019 at 9:23 PM, hoodooznoodooz said:

Jacques was terrific. Lu cheated on him with the pirate, didn’t she? 

What are you talking about? She just ran into some Italian friends! 😉

[AuntieDiane6]

ALERT!! ALERT!!  SCARY ISLAND EPISODES ON THIS AFTERNOON!!!!  "Housewives Overboard" at 2 pm (EST) followed by the rest.  Must change afternoon plans. 

[Cherrio]

7 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

ALERT!! ALERT!!  SCARY ISLAND EPISODES ON THIS AFTERNOON!!!!  "Housewives Overboard" at 2 pm (EST) followed by the rest.  Must change afternoon plans. 

I just happened to surf the channels and saw it was on.   I can NEVER not watch it.

Satchels of gold.....

[Sew Sumi]

Scary Island never gets old.

[sasha206]

On 8/8/2017 at 9:45 AM, ghoulina said:

Kelly LOVES to overtalk people and control the situation. I remember her ordering Alex around in Morocco and insisting, "you're not angry, you're hurt" over and over. Ugh, she was too much. 

That scene was absolutely hilarious to me!  And her commentary mimicing Alex and her dramatic entry was so funny.  She was nutty as hell but I enjoyed her seasons because you just never knew what looney thing she'd do next.

[izabella]

My DVR record the first 5 or 6 episodes of Season 1, yay!.  Wow, what a difference in this show!  I really enjoyed the first season.  The women were fun and lighthearted with each other in the beginning.  The house porn in the Hamptons was also great then.

[AuntieDiane6]

Bravo is running Season One this morning!  Hilarious encounter between LuAnn's Tom and Ramona where he is clearly trying to flirt with Ramona and her friends.  Ramona says, "If this is what is out there for single women in New York, I'm going to stay married forever."

So ironic.  On so many levels.

[snarts]

Watched the season 1 episodes from earlier this week. Francois & Johan have to be in high school now. I'm dying to know if teaching them Twinkle Twinkle Little Star in three languages has paid off! I forgot what a hoot Alex & Simon were. However did they get cast? 

 

[FozzyBear]

I’m watching season 4 in Hulu and I just got to the Morocco trip. Ohffff. It’s rough stuff. I mean the whole season is, but everyone is their own brand of awful all at once on that trip. Ramon and Sonja are drunken, trashy, ugly Americans the whole time. Cindy and Kelly are on the lookout for reasons to be offended. Jill is instigating all over the place. Luanne is in full duchess mode scolding people. And Alex is just awkward and uncomfortable the whole time. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by FozzyBear

[heatherchandler]

14 minutes ago, FozzyBear said:

I’m watching season 4 in Hulu and I just got to the Morocco trip. Ohffff. It’s rough stuff. I mean the whole season is, but everyone is their own brand of awful all at once on that trip. Ramon and Sonja are drunken, trashy, ugly Americans the whole time. Cindy and Kelly are in the lookout for reasons to be offended. Jill is instigating all over the place. Luanne is in full duchess mode scolding people. And Alex is just awkward and uncomfortable the whole time. 

She was a COUNTESS!

Poor Alex, always so awkward.  Painful to watch... I miss her!

[hoodooznoodooz]

5 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

She was a COUNTESS!

Poor Alex, always so awkward.  Painful to watch... I miss her!

Stassi/Vanderpump Rules joked on WWHRemotelyWithUnpredictableFeeds that she’d take a pay cut if they brought Alex McCord back.

[FozzyBear]

You know, looking back I don’t think it was the breakup with Tom that sent Luanne over the edge. I think Tom was a symptom of a spiral that started when she and Jacques broke up. She seemed so happy with him in season 4. Annoying as hell, but very happy and calm and grounded. I think she really loved him and wanted to grow old with him. I wonder if the baby thing was real instead of a plot for the show and when she couldn’t get pregnant she sort of freaked about being too old and acted out with pirate-gate to prove to herself she wasn’t too old for a man to love her, lost the love of her life from her own bad decisions, bounced to Tom as a rebound, got humiliated, and a downward spiral became a complete snap. Her and Jacques were so sweet together and she looked so happy and relaxed. That’s the last time I remember her looking that way. After Jacques left she was always spinning. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by FozzyBear

[geauxaway]

3 minutes ago, FozzyBear said:

You know, looking back I don’t think it was the breakup with Tom that sent Luanne over the edge. I think Tom was a symptom of a spiral that started when she and Jacques broke up. She seemed so happy with him in season 4. Annoying as hell, but very happy and calm and grounded. I think she really loved him and wanted to grow old with him. I wonder if the baby thing was real instead of a plot for the show and when she couldn’t get pregnant she sort of freaked about being too old and acted out with pirate-gate to prove to herself she wasn’t too old for a man to love her, lost the love oh her life from her own bad decisions, bounced to Tom as a rebound, got humiliated, and a downward spiral became a complete snap. Her and Jacques were so sweet together and she looked so happy and relaxed. That’s the last time I remember her looking that way. After Jacques left she was always spinning. 

That’s so insightful and mindful.  Now that you bring it up, I need to remember how old was Jacques when she was with him?  Was it really realistic for him to expect her to have a baby?  And for him to want a baby?

Anyone know what he is up to in the present day?

[FozzyBear]

8 minutes ago, geauxaway said:

That’s so insightful and mindful.  Now that you bring it up, I need to remember how old was Jacques when she was with him?  Was it really realistic for him to expect her to have a baby?  And for him to want a baby?

Anyone know what he is up to in the present day?

I think the baby story happens in the next season or the season after that. I forget, but I remember she was with Jacques at the time. I know Jacques was younger, not a huge amount but I think about 7 or 8 years. I think Luanne was in her mid-40s when they were dating so Jacques was probably in his late 30s. So it’s entirely possibly he did express wanting a child and she would have been technically young enough for it to be a possibility, although a remote one. Who knows how much of a deal breaker it actually was, but I could see Luanne taking it hard if she thought the love of her life wanted a baby she couldn’t give him. I’m in my mid-40s and it can be hard to hit that stage of life when it feels like everyone has an opinion about your age. I’ve also noticed it’s very difficult for women who have spent their youth being the beautiful girl in the room. They suddenly find themselves the wife that gets left instead of the girl men leave their wives for. I could see Luanne being very insecure about keeping a man as an older woman. And I’m have no idea what Jacques is up to, wish I did. I miss him. He was very charming and brought a sweet, non-douchbag energy you don’t always get from the husbands/boyfriends.

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 4/4/2020 at 12:50 AM, FozzyBear said:

You know, looking back I don’t think it was the breakup with Tom that sent Luanne over the edge. I think Tom was a symptom of a spiral that started when she and Jacques broke up. She seemed so happy with him in season 4. Annoying as hell, but very happy and calm and grounded. I think she really loved him and wanted to grow old with him. I wonder if the baby thing was real instead of a plot for the show and when she couldn’t get pregnant she sort of freaked about being too old and acted out with pirate-gate to prove to herself she wasn’t too old for a man to love her, lost the love of her life from her own bad decisions, bounced to Tom as a rebound, got humiliated, and a downward spiral became a complete snap. Her and Jacques were so sweet together and she looked so happy and relaxed. That’s the last time I remember her looking that way. After Jacques left she was always spinning. 

I agree, this is quite insightful. I think that  @HunterHunted shared with us that Lu had had the tubal ligation procedure performed years earlier. Lu’s mom told the press or something. So Lu staged those IVF, acupuncture? scenes. Lu and Jacques could have had a baby together. Donor egg, Jacques’s DNA, surrogate to gestate. They may have even been able to extract one of Lu’s eggs a la française if they were still viable. 

I think Lu loved Jacques. But she was arrogant. She assumed she could get away with anything, and Jacques would stay. When he dumped her, the spiral began.

Edited April 6, 2020 by hoodooznoodooz

[geauxaway]

9 hours ago, FozzyBear said:

He was very charming and brought a sweet, non-douchbag energy you don’t always get from the husbands/boyfriends.

If I remember correctly he had a pretty nice relationship with Noel, too?  I think he (Jacques) was very sweet and nurturing.  

[FozzyBear]

23 minutes ago, geauxaway said:

If I remember correctly he had a pretty nice relationship with Noel, too?  I think he (Jacques) was very sweet and nurturing.  

He seemed to have a good relationship with both kids. Friendly, relaxed, happy to have them around. It’s actually very sad looking back at what a good match he and Luanne were and how badly she messed it up.

[Wicked]

I agree about Jacque.  She was her best self when she was with him.

[HunterHunted]

13 hours ago, FozzyBear said:

You know, looking back I don’t think it was the breakup with Tom that sent Luanne over the edge. I think Tom was a symptom of a spiral that started when she and Jacques broke up. She seemed so happy with him in season 4. Annoying as hell, but very happy and calm and grounded. I think she really loved him and wanted to grow old with him. 

In hindsight, it's clear how big Luann's money problems really were/are and how much that drove her decision-making. She got half the Bridgehampton house and child support from Alexandre in the divorce. The other half of the Bridgehampton house was for the kids' trust fund. She sold the Bridgehampton house for $8 million and bought the Sag Harbor house for $2.65 million. There's a solid $3 million missing even when you account for taxes and fees. We know she used to spend much of her week with Jacques and come home to the Hamptons on the weekend and Jacques paid for much of their traveling. Tom paid to remodel the kitchen of the Sag Harbor house. It also seemed like Tom paid for them to travel. The fact that the trust fund dispute couldn't immediately be resolved without a lawsuit suggests that a lot of Luann's desperation has to do with money. She might have been spending down that $3 million all along, but really kicked into overdrive once Jacques split because she no longer had someone else footing the bill for the luxuries and comforts she enjoys.

3 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I agree, this is quite insightful. I think that  @HunterHunted shared with us that Lu had had the tubal ligation procedure performed years earlier. Lu’s mom told the press or something. So Lu staged those IVF, acupuncture? scenes. Lu and Jacques could have had a baby together. Donor egg, Jacques’s DNA, surrogate to gestate. They may have even been able to extract one of Lu’s eggs a la française if they were still viable. 

I think Lu loved Jacques. But she was arrogant. She assumed she could get away with anything, and Jacques would stay. When he dumped her, the spiral began.

Yes, her mom spilled the beans about the tubal ligation. I don't believe Luann was ever serious about more kids.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_1752331

[FozzyBear]

So I’m on to S5E1. I wanted to see if I would like Carol better after a fresh viewing of the disaster that is season 4. Nope. Still find her as insufferable as I always have. I’m sure much of it is me since I’ve pretty much hated her since her first second on screen, which I admit is unfair. There is just something about her the rubs me the wrong way. I think it’s that she comes across as really mean and snotty, but seems to find her mean snotty-ness adorable. I do not. To me, she is like a nightmare cross of the worst of Luanne, Bethany, and Kelly. 

[LibertarianSlut]

6 hours ago, FozzyBear said:

So I’m on to S5E1. I wanted to see if I would like Carol better after a fresh viewing of the disaster that is season 4. Nope. Still find her as insufferable as I always have. I’m sure much of it is me since I’ve pretty much hated her since her first second on screen, which I admit is unfair. There is just something about her the rubs me the wrong way. I think it’s that she comes across as really mean and snotty, but seems to find her mean snotty-ness adorable. I do not. To me, she is like a nightmare cross of the worst of Luanne, Bethany, and Kelly. 

Oh man, you may have been the one viewer who hated Carole more than I did.  I liked her in the real, real beginning of season five, like episode one, back when I had a hard time trying to differentiate between the three new women.  I thought it was funny that she interrupted someone to ask if her tits were showing through her outfit, and then when she couldn’t bear a single second of a conversation about mommy hood, because I am like that.

As soon as she went to Occupy Wall Street and wondered if she was part of the one percent (bitch, you are!), coyly asked Mario if he wanted to share a beer while having dinner with him and Ramona, said “bitch stole my look” about Luann, lectured Luann about calling herself an Indian, and revealed she was dating “Russ” from Aerosmith (because we all know about Russ from Aerosmith!) in season five, she became my least favorite Housewife probably ever, across all franchises.  

I had always disliked/hated Luann, depending on the season up to that point, but as soon as Carole made an enemy of Luann, I started liking her, because the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

She was a disgusting mean girl to Jules with her best pal Bethenny.  She got together with Adam in a shady way and didn’t give a fuck.  I also  think she sold Heather up the river in a chillingly casual way.

So I was comfortably hating Carole for years until I came to the conclusion that Bethenny is worse than Carole, and I saw all of Bethenny’s worst traits play out against Carole, and Carole kept a cool head, and I was like, “holy shit, I’m on Carole’s side.  This bitch Bethenny just made me side with Carole.”  I think I went into that whole “enemy of my enemy is my friend” thing with Carole when Bethenny flat-out lied about the texts she exchanged with Carole when Carole was in California.  I had at least given Bethenny the credit of being a truth-teller up until that point, even if the way she spoke the truth was horrible, and she wasn’t terribly accurate, but when I found out that Bethenny told us she sent Carole three normal texts in her talking head, and Carole responded, “that is a lot,” but it turned out that Bethenny was robo-texting Carole and she just lied to us, I was like, “there is something worse than going out with Adam, riding on his handlebars, and being a sanctimonious asshole and that is being a LIAR!!”

But otherwise I agree with you.  Carole, overall, was definitely worse than Luann and Kelly.  If Bethenny hadn’t gone on a full-throttle all-out smear campaign against Carole, ironically, I would be saying right now that Carole was worse than Bethenny, like way worse.  

But I have to watch season five again.  Maybe I forgot how bad she was.  

[biakbiak]

10 hours ago, FozzyBear said:

Still find her as insufferable as I always have. I’m sure much of it is me since I’ve pretty much hated her since her first second o

Yeah I have hated her since she invited all the women over for lunch and cocktails and only had m&ms when they arrived because she was just too cool to be a thoughtful host and when the salads that the women wanted didn’t arrive with the pizza she ordered she didn’t give a shit. Look these women are demanding assholes but being a bad host is a reflection on you not them. If it’s not your thing than don’t do it but don’t use your so deep and above it all attitude as an excuse for being lazy and ill-mannered. 

Edited April 6, 2020 by biakbiak

[FozzyBear]

Why I hate Carole is similar to why I hate Ariana on VanderPump Rules. They are both the type of women that require their friends spend a great amount of time telling them low maintenance they are. They are born the type of women who spend a lot of time talking about how they aren’t like other girls. They are both the type of women who think that being a male fantasy of the cool girl makes them a better feminist than a mom. They are both make loud proclamations of how other women shouldn’t need a man yet they are never really single themselves. I don’t roll with that. I see you.

oh! New Game! This Vanderpump Star = the Housewife: New York edition. Ariana = Carole, Stassi = Bethany, Scheana = Sonjia, Katie = Jill, Katie = Jill, Lala = Ramona, Raquel = Alex, Jax = Luanne

Edited April 6, 2020 by FozzyBear

[AuntieDiane6]

SET YOUR DVRs, LADIES AND GENTS!!  Thursday (April 9), Bravo is running the ENTIRE SEASON 3 ....  SCARY ISLAND!!!    With the 3 reunion episodes!

"Go to sleep! GO TO SLEEP!!"    "Johann Face!"   "You're a cook, not a chef"

It starts at 6 am.  I KNOW you're home!! 

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by AuntieDiane6
Corrected DATE to April 9

[SuprSuprElevated]

1 hour ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

SET YOUR DVRs, LADIES AND GENTS!!  Thursday (April 6), Bravo is running the ENTIRE SEASON 3 ....  SCARY ISLAND!!!    With the 3 reunion episodes!

"Go to sleep! GO TO SLEEP!!"    "Johann Face!"   "You're a cook, not a chef"

It starts at 6 am.  I KNOW you're home!! 

 

But you're posting this on April 8.   Ah, just figured it out.  You mean April 16?

[Sew Sumi]

No, it's tomorrow. 

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

But you're posting this on April 8.   Ah, just figured it out.  You mean April 16?

No, Thursday, April 9!  (I corrected the date in my original post.)

[heatherchandler]

On 4/5/2020 at 5:41 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

she interrupted someone to ask if her tits were showing through her outfit, and then when she couldn’t bear a single second of a conversation about mommy hood, because I am like that.

If I remember correctly, someone (Aviva or Heather??) was asking her about being a widow.  So she changed the subject.  Or am I remembering wrong?

[LibertarianSlut]

I think—don’t take this to the bank—Aviva was fan-girling Carole about What Remains at a party, so, yeah, basically talking about being a widow, and Carole interrupted her to ask Aviva if her tits were showing.

I can’t remember, because I haven’t seen the season in at least five years.  I just remember some parts of it so vividly because I hated S4 so much that it made my teeth chatter, and seasons five and six were so good and different to me that I paid really close attention, seeing as how I felt the greatness of the show was in peril (and unfortunately I think I was right.  I think season 8 was the last really good season).

[politichick]

16 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

SET YOUR DVRs, LADIES AND GENTS!!  Thursday (April 9), Bravo is running the ENTIRE SEASON 3 ....  SCARY ISLAND!!!    With the 3 reunion episodes!

"Go to sleep! GO TO SLEEP!!"    "Johann Face!"   "You're a cook, not a chef"

It starts at 6 am.  I KNOW you're home!! 

 

Binge watching now and loving it. Jill is more annoying than I remembered and Kelly even dumber. LuAnn also is a bit of a snake. Can't wait for scary island!

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

Binge watching now and loving it. Jill is more annoying than I remembered and Kelly even dumber. LuAnn also is a bit of a snake. Can't wait for scary island!

Still, I laughed out loud as Jill watched Ramona "The Alien" walk the runway and Simon said with a straight face, "Well, her eyes popped." 

What I do notice about those early seasons is how fast-paced they are: luncheons and charity events every episode, conversations with the kids and partners, music in the background almost continually.  Every time I left the room I was greeted with a new lively scene upon my return. I miss that. 

[politichick]

2 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

Still, I laughed out loud as Jill watched Ramona "The Alien" walk the runway and Simon said with a straight face, "Well, her eyes popped." 

What I do notice about those early seasons is how fast-paced they are: luncheons and charity events every episode, conversations with the kids and partners, music in the background almost continually.  Every time I left the room I was greeted with a new lively scene upon my return. I miss that. 

I'm having the best time. What a difference 10 years has made. I'm smiling and laughing and every now and then a tear comes to my eye. This show is a shit show now.

[Sun-Bun]

Scary Island is just as baffling to watch today as it was then; and it’s so funny to already see the foreshadowing of who Sonja would eventually become thanks to those funny little details from her first season...she was so composed and poised that first season, wow!

Small details I noticed while re-watching the Scary Island episode today: 

-Kelly comes off as even more randomly unhinged upon second viewing. I feel like we missed a lot of key scenes building up to that insane dinner party. She seemed high AF.

-Sonja drunkenly humping Kelly on her bed while repeatedly mentioning she smelt cat pee. Supposedly meth smells a bit like cat pee...you think Sonja suspected Kelly was high on some weird substance??

-“Johan face, Alex!” Da fuq does that even mean?!

-Alex REALLY didn’t fit in with this crew at all. She seemed so awkward and out of her league compared to everyone else. That intensified by her final season.

-Luann was such a pretentiously uptight bitch in the first 4 seasons.

-Jill was such a pathetic, social-climbing, materialistic bitch.

-I miss the Bethenny of early years, before she got so high on her own fumes. She really did give zero fucks back then, which is why we all rooted for her. 
 

-Ramona is the only HW who has remained exactly the same person from her first to her current season. 

[heatherchandler]

1 hour ago, Sun-Bun said:

 

Small details I noticed while re-watching the Scary Island episode today: 

-Kelly comes off as even more randomly unhinged upon second viewing. I feel like we missed a lot of key scenes building up to that insane dinner party. She seemed high AF.

-Sonja drunkenly humping Kelly on her bed while repeatedly mentioning she smelt cat pee. Supposedly meth smells a bit like cat pee...you think Sonja suspected Kelly was high on some weird substance??

-“Johan face, Alex!” Da fuq does that even mean?!

 

Kelly was HIGH AF!

"Johan face" I was dying laughing!  I think she wanted Alex to make a face, like a baby would (?) but she was not very good with the direction.  She was like, "think of Johan," and Alex laughed, and then Kelly was like, "mama mmmmm" and Alex was like, ???????

[LibertarianSlut]

I just re-watched season three (Scary Island season, although I thought it was a lot more than that) to see if I would see it differently in light of the way things are now.  

Someone pointed out that the seasons used to be shorter which made them easier to get through, and I couldn’t agree more.  Let’s get 15 episodes and a two-part reunion and be done.  

This was perhaps the best season of reality TV I’ve ever seen.  It moved so well, there was so much action and interaction and drama and complexity that I was never bored, except I thought Ramona’s vow renewal was bullshit.  I hate vow renewals.  

But, watching the vow renewal, I couldn’t help but wonder how great it would have been in some ways if the show had ended right there.  Everyone was so happy—Ramona and Mario, Bethenny and Jason, Luann and Jacques, Jill and Bobby, Alex and Simon stateside and Sonja...well, she’d still be single, but she’d have some shroud of respectability.  

I wanted to see if I had anything new to say about the season and this is what I came away with:

• Bethenny was extremely likable and Jill was extremely unlike able this particular season.  It wasn’t “old seasons” vs “new seasons” for me, because I thought they were about even season one.  Bethenny just really hit her stride in season three specifically, and, boy was she good.  I felt like, for much of the season, she was a human amalgamation of the best comments made on Primetimer, and it was so awesome.  She was really good at making a point, and she was so funny.  Commenting that “Luann lost her husband and grew a penis” was so funny because it was said once over the course of the whole season.  Taking that and running with it and talking about sex and vaginas constantly eight and nine years later was an example of too much of a good thing. 
• Ramona looked amazing that season.  I do think the “Cameron Diaz” hair would have gotten old if she’d worn it for more than a season, but her body was so good.  I never would have thought it was that good if it hadn’t been proven to me.  
• Kelly was like that stopped clock that’s right twice a day.  When Kelly called Bethenny a ho-bag, that was what reverberated 1,500 miles north to New York, but no one mentioned that Sonja and Bethenny were kind of shaming Kelly for not having had a one-night stand, which is gross.  Sonja was just openly mocking Kelly and Bethenny was holding up a Hooters calendar and saying, “See all these girls?  They’re from Michigan and they’ve had one-night stands,” in response to Kelly saying she is from the Midwest, and she has different values, which is a totally defensible position.  I don’t think Kelly should have said Bethenny was a ho-bag, but I think it would have been fine if she’d have said, “sorry I’m not a ho-bag” after she’d been shamed for her sex life.  There were a few times that I felt that Kelly got baited like that, but something really not normal happened on Scary Island, there’s no denying that
• I never had a taste for Sonja, even in the beginning.  I had forgotten about that.  I would also really like to see her in person and ask her what her tag line means (“I have a taste for luxury, and luxury has a taste for me”).  How does luxury have a taste for someone??? (All of their tag lines were flagrantly self-aggrandizing that season, but at least the majority made sense).  Anyway, I didn’t realize how early into the season Sonja came on, and I didn’t realize how much I was dreading it.  I never saw her appeal.  I thought it was redundant to have her on the show with Ramona—they were way more similar than any of the other cast members were to each other.  And I just wasn’t interested in her.  She had this perma-Mona Lisa smile that I found—to use Kelly’s word—creepy, I could tell she wasn’t telling her full story, she got along with everyone, she didn’t have a family to show, and she was just constantly talking about sex and making sexy puns that I could have lived without.  I found her townhouse dirty and depressing from the jump.  I’m just not sure why they chose that point in time to bring in a seventh cast member.  I think it was totally unnecessary.  The only time I thought she played an important role was when the truth about Scary Island started to become obscured at Luann’s CD party 😊 and Sonja yelled at them that they weren’t there and she set the record straight.  I also thought Sonja completely redefined a “one-night stand” at the reunion, and that always bothered me.  She made the point—several times—that one-night stands could “happen” to anyone, because the guy could just disappear.  No Sonja, if a woman has a boyfriend or a husband and they have sex and he disappears, that is not a one-night stand.  I think what happened was that Sonja realized by the reunion that she had been talking too much about promiscuous sex during the season, and the Morgans probably didn’t like it, so she walked it back and implied she only has “a date” one night a week, on Thursdays.  Sure, Sonj.  
• Jill just became very much more of her worst characteristics that season.  She always had a chit list and was always keeping score and promoting who she wanted to promote and cutting down the people she didn’t like.  I don’t think she grew much.  I don’t think she changed her ways.  I think she was withholding the make-up with Bethenny, and only when Bethenny’s circumstances changed did Jill change her position.  I don’t give her the benefit of the doubt on this one, and I was watching with a very sympathetic eye to Jill.
• There is this really funny scene in episode one or two where Luann gave a talking head about Kelly, “please tell me you didn’t get arrested again!”  Oh, Countess.  Luann was awful, but I loved Money Can’t Buy You Class, when that was still a novel thing for a Housewife to do.  Luann was both worse than I remember her being in the form her haughtiness took, and she was better than I remember in that she had a good moment here or there.  What was completely clear to me for the first time is that she really is not quick on her feet, which came to my attention for the first time last season.  I always assumed that because she was tall and she spoke in a deep, commanding voice with confidence, that she was smart and she’s...kind of an airhead.  Kelly was wrong in the head in a way that Luann wasn’t, but I think Kelly was possibly more intelligent than Luann.  
• Jill really didn’t like Kelly as much as it I thought she did.  She was trying to build alliances all season, but even with that mindset, she was often creating distance between herself and Kelly, until the real end when Jill realized that she had to have Kelly on her team by default.  In the beginning of the season, there was so much more jockeying for position than I remembered.  Bethenny and Jill were on the outs, but everyone else was up for grabs—Alex, Ramona and Kelly were very malleable between the two groups in a way that didn’t solidify until the end.
• I don’t blame Jill at all for saving Bethenny’s extremely caustic voice message and playing it for Luann.  I think being that bitchy in that voice message—and it was a doozy—was Bethenny’s one misstep in an otherwise perfectly played offensive and defensive game against Jill, and Bethenny was embarrassed that it was played on TV.  Where Jill went wrong was to put Bethenny and Ramona on speakerphone, but I can’t blame her for playing the Bethenny voice message for Luann.  If my dear friend left me a message like that, even if we were squabbling, I would play it for a third party to be like, “um...what the fuck is this?”  I didn’t think that was out of the bounds of fair play.
• I thought Alex was going to annoy the bejesus out of me, but she was cooler and funnier than what I was expecting, because I was expecting the worst.  She was a really good friend to Bethenny.  She had a lot to say, you can tell her mind was always going, but she really settled in and sat back and listened, which is like a lost art form on this show, so I can forgive the clunky “delivering of the message” and the “when you are being a mean girl, I am in Brooklyn.”  The only thing I hated about the mean girl/Brooklyn showdown was that Alex and Jill made the awesome spontaneous toast to not being friends, and then Alex got the hell out of there.  It was a very small, intimate gathering at Jennifer Gilbert’s house, and I have no idea why Alex didn’t stay and interject herself into every single conversation Jill was having for the rest of the night.  That was such a wasted opportunity.  
• Speaking of Jennifer Gilbert—oh, fuck Jennifer Gilbert! (and I know that’s probably the first time anyone’s said that), but she was actually a serious snob.  She saw Courte and labeled him “a short man with bad hair,” when I thought he was perfectly nice and pleasant and interesting.  Who gives a shit about his height or if he prefers to bleach his hair?  Then Raging Horse Face was saying that Ramona’s vow renewal violated Jennifer’s own rule of not serving champagne before the ceremony (which I think is a horrible rule, and I would never hire her), and then as Ramona’s party planner—who was about 100 lbs overweight—walked over, Jennifer immediately turned to Luann and stage-whispered, “would you hire this person to plan your party?” right before graciously greeting her, as if being fat was so scandalous.  Jill was mostly acting out of a place of hurt and immaturity, whereas Jennifer was just being a c-word in both instances.  After she got cut from the show she complained that Bravo was clearly not interested in low-drama people who ran successful businesses.  Nah, bitch, maybe you just didn’t fit in because you were even more of a snob than these women, which is difficult to pull off.   
• Wow, that moment of anti-semitism where Luann and Jill are walking through Central Park and Luann is laughing that Jacques is Jewish and how the Count would just diiiieeee if he knew dahhhling, and Jill laughing with her...yi yi yi.  I think it is so interesting this only got the merest mention at the reunion, and Luann was able to shrug it off (somehow it came up in the season four reunion again and even stupid Cindy was like, “what’s with the Jewish?”), but Andy didn’t feel the need to hammer on it.  He really picks and chooses what’s going to offend him, which is odd and unfair.

This was such a great season overall though.  The only regret I have is that I think this was the jumping-off point for Bravo and the three-part reunion (which was warranted in this case) and now it’s the standard length of a reunion when two, or even one, part would suit other shows just fine.  

ETA:  I totally forgot my favorite Kelly-ism from really early in the season—saying she was “like Rapunzel” raising two kids in the city and the Hamptons.  I don’t think it got any funnier or stranger than that!

Edited April 16, 2020 by LibertarianSlut
Rapunzel!

[Stats Queen]

1 hour ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I just re-watched season three (Scary Island season, although I thought it was a lot more than that) to see if I would see it differently in light of the way things are now.  

Someone pointed out that the seasons used to be shorter which made them easier to get through, and I couldn’t agree more.  Let’s get 15 episodes and a two-part reunion and be done.  

This was perhaps the best season of reality TV I’ve ever seen.  It moved so well, there was so much action and interaction and drama and complexity that I was never bored, except I thought Ramona’s vow renewal was bullshit.  I hate vow renewals.  

But, watching the vow renewal, I couldn’t help but wonder how great it would have been in some ways if the show had ended right there.  Everyone was so happy—Ramona and Mario, Bethenny and Jason, Luann and Jacques, Jill and Bobby, Alex and Simon stateside and Sonja...well, she’d still be single, but she’d have some shroud of respectability.  

I wanted to see if I had anything new to say about the season and this is what I came away with:

• Bethenny was extremely likable and Jill was extremely unlike able this particular season.  It wasn’t “old seasons” vs “new seasons” for me, because I thought they were about even season one.  Bethenny just really hit her stride in season three specifically, and, boy was she good.  I felt like, for much of the season, she was a human amalgamation of the best comments made on Primetimer, and it was so awesome.  She was really good at making a point, and she was so funny.  Commenting that “Luann lost her husband and grew a penis” was so funny because it was said once over the course of the whole season.  Taking that and running with it and talking about sex and vaginas constantly eight and nine years later was an example of too much of a good thing. 
• Ramona looked amazing that season.  I do think the “Cameron Diaz” hair would have gotten old if she’d worn it for more than a season, but her body was so good.  I never would have thought it was that good if it hadn’t been proven to me.  
• Kelly was like that stopped clock that’s right twice a day.  When Kelly called Bethenny a ho-bag, that was what reverberated 1,500 miles north to New York, but no one mentioned that Sonja and Bethenny were kind of shaming Kelly for not having had a one-night stand, which is gross.  Sonja was just openly mocking Kelly and Bethenny was holding up a Hooters calendar and saying, “See all these girls?  They’re from Michigan and they’ve had one-night stands,” in response to Kelly saying she is from the Midwest, and she has different values, which is a totally defensible position.  I don’t think Kelly should have said Bethenny was a ho-bag, but I think it would have been fine if she’d have said, “sorry I’m not a ho-bag” after she’d been shamed for her sex life.  There were a few times that I felt that Kelly got baited like that, but something really not normal happened on Scary Island, there’s no denying that
• I never had a taste for Sonja, even in the beginning.  I had forgotten about that.  I would also really like to see her in person and ask her what her tag line means (“I have a taste for luxury, and luxury has a taste for me”).  How does luxury have a taste for someone??? (All of their tag lines were flagrantly self-aggrandizing that season, but at least the majority made sense).  Anyway, I didn’t realize how early into the season Sonja came on, and I didn’t realize how much I was dreading it.  I never saw her appeal.  I thought it was redundant to have her on the show with Ramona—they were way more similar than any of the other cast members were to each other.  And I just wasn’t interested in her.  She had this perma-Mona Lisa smile that I found—to use Kelly’s word—creepy, I could tell she wasn’t telling her full story, she got along with everyone, she didn’t have a family to show, and she was just constantly talking about sex and making sexy puns that I could have lived without.  I found her townhouse dirty and depressing from the jump.  I’m just not sure why they chose that point in time to bring in a seventh cast member.  I think it was totally unnecessary.  The only time I thought she played an important role was when the truth about Scary Island started to become obscured at Luann’s CD party 😊 and Sonja yelled at them that they weren’t there and she set the record straight.  I also thought Sonja completely redefined a “one-night stand” and the reunion, and that always bothered me.  She made the point—several times—that one-night stands could “happen” to anyone, because the guy could just disappear.  No Sonja, if a woman has a boyfriend or a husband and they have sex and he disappears, that is not a one-night stand.  I think what happened was that Sonja realized by the reunion that she had been talking too much about promiscuous sex during the season, and the Morgans probably didn’t like it, so she walked it back and implied she only has “a date” one night a week, on Thursdays.  Sure, Sonj.  
• Jill just became very much more of her worst characteristics that season.  She always had a chit list and was always keeping score and promoting who she wanted to promote and cutting down the people she didn’t like.  I don’t think she grew much.  I don’t think she changed her ways.  I think she was withholding the make-up with Bethenny, and only when Bethenny’s circumstances changed did Jill change her position.  I don’t give her the benefit of the doubt on this one, and I was watching with a very sympathetic eye to Jill.
• There is this really funny scene in episode one or two where Luann gave a talking head about Kelly, “please tell me you didn’t get arrested again!”  Oh, Countess.  Luann was awful, but I loved Money Can’t Buy You Class, when that was still a novel thing for a Housewife to do.  Luann was both worse than I remember her being in the form her haughtiness took, and she was better than I remember in that she had a good moment here or there.  What was completely clear to me for the first time is that she really is not quick on her feet, which came to my attention for the first time last season.  I always assumed that because she was tall and she spoke in a deep, commanding voice with confidence, that she was smart and she’s...kind of an airhead.  Kelly was wrong in the head in a way that Luann wasn’t, but I think Kelly was possibly more intelligent than Luann.  
• Jill really didn’t like Kelly as much as it I thought she did.  She was trying to build alliances all season, but even with that mindset, she was often creating distance between herself and Kelly, until the real end when Jill realized that she had to have Kelly on her team by default.  In the beginning of the season, there was so much more jockeying for position than I remembered.  Bethenny and Jill were on the outs, but everyone else was up for grabs—Alex, Ramona and Kelly were very malleable between the two groups in a way that didn’t solidify until the end.
• I don’t blame Jill at all for saving Bethenny’s extremely caustic voice message and playing it for Luann.  I think being that bitchy in that voice message—and it was a doozy—was Bethenny’s one misstep in an otherwise perfectly played offensive and defensive game against Jill, and Bethenny was embarrassed that it was played on TV.  Where Jill went wrong was to put Bethenny and Ramona on speakerphone, but I can’t blame her for playing the Bethenny voice message for Luann.  If my dear friend left me a message like that, even if we were squabbling, I would play it for a third party to be like, “um...what the fuck is this?”  I didn’t think that was out of the bounds of fair play.
• I thought Alex was going to annoy the bejesus out of me, but she was cooler and funnier than what I was expecting, because I was expecting the worst.  She was a really good friend to Bethenny.  She had a lot to say, you can tell her mind was always going, but she really settled in and sat back and listened, which is like a lost art form on this show, so I can forgive the clunky “delivering of the message” and the “when you are being a mean girl, I am in Brooklyn.”  The only thing I hated about the mean girl/Brooklyn showdown was that Alex and Jill made the awesome spontaneous toast to not being friends, and then Alex got the hell out of there.  It was a very small, intimate gathering at Jennifer Gilbert’s house, and I have no idea why Alex didn’t stay and interject herself into every single conversation Jill was having for the rest of the night.  That was such a wasted opportunity.  
• Speaking of Jennifer Gilbert—oh, fuck Jennifer Gilbert! (and I know that’s probably the first time anyone’s said that), but she was actually a serious snob.  She saw Courte and labeled him “a short man with bad hair,” when I thought he was perfectly nice and pleasant and interesting.  Who gives a shit about his height or if he prefers to bleach his hair?  Then Raging Horse Face was saying that Ramona’s vow renewal violated Jennifer’s own rule of not serving champagne before the ceremony (which I think is a horrible rule, and I would never hire her), and then as Ramona’s party planner—who was about 100 lbs overweight—walked over, Jennifer immediately turned to Luann and stage-whispered, “would you hire this person to plan your party?” right before graciously greeting her, as if being fat was so scandalous.  Jill was mostly acting out of a place of hurt and immaturity, whereas Jennifer was just being a c-word in both instances.  After she got cut from the show she complained that Bravo was clearly not interested in low-drama people who ran successful businesses.  Nah, bitch, maybe you just didn’t fit in because you were even more of a snob than these women, which is difficult to pull off.   
• Wow, that moment of anti-semitism where Luann and Jill are walking through Central Park and Luann is laughing that Jacques is Jewish and how the Count would just diiiieeee if he knew dahhhling, and Jill laughing with her...yi yi yi.  I think it is so interesting this only got the merest mention at the reunion, and Luann was able to shrug it off (somehow it came up in the season four reunion again and even stupid Cindy was like, “what’s with the Jewish?”), but Andy didn’t feel the need to hammer on it.  He really picks and chooses what’s going to offend him, which is odd and unfair.

This was such a great season overall though.  The only regret I have is that I think this was the jumping-off point for Bravo and the three-part reunion (which was warranted in this case) and now it’s the standard length of a reunion when two, or even one, part would suit other shows just fine.  

ETA:  I totally forgot my favorite Kelly-ism from really early in the season—saying she was “like Rapunzel” raising two kids in the city and the Hamptons.  I don’t think it got any funnier or stranger than that!

Now I need to rewatch this and more closely because you pointed out things I didn’t remember, especially about Jennifer Gilbert.

I think Kelly is pretty intelligent -  but her other actions and comments hide it, because, well, because....

As for the potential anti-semitism - I have to rewatch but it sound like maybe LuAnn was referring to the Count’s prejudices not her own prejudices.

I’m Catholic and married (for the second time no less!) a wonderful Jewish man. I know my one grandmother is still rolling over in her grave about that and she passed away in 1988 (7 years before I married My wonderful hubby). She was definitely an anti anyone not Catholic and white European marrying into our family. My brother got married young (he had just turned 20) and married my wonderful sister-in-law who is Hispanic. I was 15 years old and at the reception this grandmother said to me, “I don’t like all these foreigners marrying into our family” (was the 3rd grandchild who married a Hispanic).  I said to her “Tina’s family has been in this country for generations, much longer than our family”. I will never forget the look of pride on my dad’s face.

[LibertarianSlut]

59 minutes ago, Stats Queen said:

As for the potential anti-semitism - I have to rewatch but it sound like maybe LuAnn was referring to the Count’s prejudices not her own prejudices.

It was Luann conveying her ex-husband’s anti-semitism to Jill, and they were both giggling about it.  Neither of them put forth any new anti-Jewish ideas; they were just perpetuating an anti-Jewish sentiment and embracing it as sort of old world and charming.

 I’m not trying to change the course of human nature, but if Luann was so private that she wouldn’t allow the camera to film her bedroom or her bathroom, I would think she could keep the count’s anti-Semitism off the air, at least for the sake of their children (at least one of whom followed in his prejudiced footsteps).  

Aside from the public/private disparity (I don’t care what people say in private), Andy’s selective outrage causes me to point out his hypocrisy every single time.

[Stats Queen]

48 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

It was Luann conveying her ex-husband’s anti-semitism to Jill, and they were both giggling about it.  Neither of them put forth any new anti-Jewish ideas; they were just perpetuating an anti-Jewish sentiment and embracing it as sort of old world and charming.

 I’m not trying to change the course of human nature, but if Luann was so private that she wouldn’t allow the camera to film her bedroom or her bathroom, I would think she could keep the count’s anti-Semitism off the air, at least for the sake of their children (at least one of whom followed in his prejudiced footsteps).  

Aside from the public/private disparity (I don’t care what people say in private), Andy’s selective outrage causes me to point out his hypocrisy every single time.

Thanks for explaining - I definitely need to rewatch the season.

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

t was Luann conveying her ex-husband’s anti-semitism to Jill, and they were both giggling about it.  Neither of them put forth any new anti-Jewish ideas; they were just perpetuating an anti-Jewish sentiment and embracing it as sort of old world and charming.

Jill is Jewish.

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 4/9/2020 at 5:05 PM, heatherchandler said:

Kelly was HIGH AF!

"Johan face" I was dying laughing!  I think she wanted Alex to make a face, like a baby would (?) but she was not very good with the direction.  She was like, "think of Johan," and Alex laughed, and then Kelly was like, "mama mmmmm" and Alex was like, ???????

I think Kelly wanted Alex to think of her sons because she is very relaxed and not self-conscious when she thinks of them. She is just content and focused on them, not thinking, “high fashion, sophisticated, glamorous, etc.”

[heatherchandler]

28 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I think Kelly wanted Alex to think of her sons because she is very relaxed and not self-conscious when she thinks of them. She is just content and focused on them, not thinking, “high fashion, sophisticated, glamorous, etc.”

I thought that at first, and I think Alex thought that too, but then Kelly was like, "you know when a baby makes a face like, "mmm mama," let your mouth go like that, and make that face..."  So she was telling Alex to make a face that Johan would make.  So weird.

[LibertarianSlut]

3 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

Jill is Jewish.

Yeah, I think it’s common knowledge that Jill Zarin is Jewish.  

In fact, earlier in the scene that I was describing, Jill was telling Luann that it was the Jewish week of atonement and reflection.  Then Luann affirmed to Jill that Jacques was Jewish and the Count would just die if he found out, and they both engaged in faux-stifled laughter.  I don’t see how one fact would negate or counterbalance the other. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

25 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

I thought that at first, and I think Alex thought that too, but then Kelly was like, "you know when a baby makes a face like, "mmm mama," let your mouth go like that, and make that face..."  So she was telling Alex to make a face that Johan would make.  So weird.

Oh, my gosh! I must rewatch! That is really funny. I missed that completely.

[Hiyo]

Quote

“Johan face, Alex!”

Was this before or after Alex had on her Kabuki make-up?

[snarts]

I found Alex insufferable in season 3.  Seasons 1-2 she & Simon provided such comic relief, they were so unlike the rest of the cast.  In season 3, she became close with Bethenny (taking Jill's spot) and her head swelled to epic proportions.  Gathering everyone to hear her deliver Bethenny's message to Jill.  Taking such delight in mean girling.

She really took Bethenny's issues with Jill and made them her own. Jill hadn't done anything to Alex.  The comment ascribed to her about the boys "climbing up someone's leg" was actually made by Luann.  Even after learning this, Alex continued to drum up reasons to hate Jill and amp up the drama

The worst was on scary island when Jill showed up and Alex started shaking & crying.  What the hell did she think Jill would do?  She wasn't there to see her. Ugh.  Hate, Alex McCord.

Watched much of season 7 this week.  Wow, they had 8 housewives that season.  Way too many, IMO.  Carol looked more natural than I remember her looking of late. Dorinda was much less of a presence as well.  I don't miss Heather.  Her freaking out over the male houseguests was over the top.  Don't be all uncool.   The ladies were all concerned about Sonja's drinking and we witnessed Dorinda's spitting & yelling for the first time.  Some things never change.  

 

 

[LibertarianSlut]

3 hours ago, snarts said:

Jill hadn't done anything to Alex.  The comment ascribed to her about the boys "climbing up someone's leg" was actually made by Luann.  

I think Jill and Alex were both out over their skis in season three.

Luann told the anecdote about one of Alex’s kids climbing up someone’s leg on a pier to Jill.  But It was Jill who walked up to Alex at a formal event (with Luann in tow), and it was Jill who told Alex she should address her children’s problems of crawling up a leg in writing, when she didn’t even see it, just to be a bitch.

 Alex is a better person that I am, because I would have responded, “Make sure that you put a chapter into Secrets of a Jewish Mother about how to pretend that you’re sending your daughter to get treatment for RA on Martha’s Vineyard when it’s really for weight loss.  Except in the book, you might want to tell parents not to marvel on TV about how flat their kids’ bellies are and how they lost 11 lbs in a week if it’s not for weight loss.”  And I would have spun on my heel and walked away.  

Jill doesn’t drink, so she wasn’t even tipsy.  She shouldn’t come for someone’s kids with something she heard unless was prepared for that person to respond with something about her mothering that they knew.  Jill might have actually respected that or might not have, but it would have gotten her to back off.  When that season opened, I got the feeling that a lot of stuff had gone on off-camera to make Alex mad at Jill.  Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire, and I think this was one of those times.

[Hiyo]

I liked season 7, I thought it was one of the better seasons overall.

[snarts]

8 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Luann told the anecdote about one of Alex’s kids climbing up someone’s leg on a pier to Jill.  But It was Jill who walked up to Alex at a formal event (with Luann in tow), and it was Jill who told Alex she should address her children’s problems of crawling up a leg in writing, when she didn’t even see it, just to be a bitch.

 Alex is a better person that I am, because I would have responded, “Make sure that you put a chapter into Secrets of a Jewish Mother about how to pretend that you’re sending your daughter to get treatment for RA on Martha’s Vineyard when it’s really for weight loss.  Except in the book, you might want to tell parents not to marvel on TV about how flat their kids’ bellies are and how they lost 11 lbs in a week if it’s not for weight loss.”  And I would have spun on my heel and walked away.  

To be fair, Alex & Simon's kids were little hellions who behaved atrociously while their parents did little/nothing to correct them.  Almost everyone in the group commented on them at one time or another and those comments were tame based on what we saw as viewers. 

Alex coming after Jill was nothing but her siding up to Bethenny (who, btw, had some of the worst comments about the kids & their household).

 

[LibertarianSlut]

^^^ Yes, and I do agree that some of Alex’s other behavior was indefensible.  Breaking out into hives and shaking when Jill showed up to St John and saying “there’s been enough drama”??  Baby girl, who are you to say there’s been “enough” drama?  If you can’t take the heat, stay the phuck out of the reality TV kitchen.  Not even Bethenny went there, and she would have had the best argument against Jill remaining on the property.  

Speaking of getting unnecessarily upset on an island, I had forgotten that Heather was crying—crying!—that some of her single friends brought men back to the home in Turks & Caicos.  I thought she was supposed to be some worldly international businesswoman and she freaks out when someone else is getting some peen?  Girl, bye.