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Memory Lane: Seasons 1-5

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On 4/9/2020 at 3:51 PM, Sun-Bun said:

-Sonja drunkenly humping Kelly on her bed while repeatedly mentioning she smelt cat pee. Supposedly meth smells a bit like cat pee...you think Sonja suspected Kelly was high on some weird substance??

I've always thought so - that it was edited into the show purposefully to indicate meth use. But I'm often wrong! 😆

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On 4/15/2020 at 8:14 PM, Stats Queen said:

especially about Jennifer Gilbert.

Who?  I wish I was joking, b/c I rewatched up to season three about a month ago and consider myself a fan. 🤔

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I’m just wondering, because I have to go back to work in just a few days and I am so upset and need to soothe myself binge-watching reality TV in the interim...is there any interest in the curated binge thread for all the RHNYC vacations?  If people are interested in posting there, I was going to rewatch Slutty Island tomorrow and post about it.  If it’s not catching on, I’ll prob just go back to rewatching in sequence. “The Countess doesn’t drink beer from a bottle” is the “satchels of gold” of season two!  

I’ve had such a good time with the rewatches and discussion this past month and I’m hoping to extend it to max for just a few more days!

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On 4/19/2020 at 6:43 PM, OldButHappy said:

Who?  I wish I was joking, b/c I rewatched up to season three about a month ago and consider myself a fan. 🤔

D34B093E-57EA-4AE0-AD83-0A03BA819C19.jpeg.b0b91ccf4e457268848880e186078f89.jpeg

That’s Jen Gilbert, pictured in the middle.  I think she was the very first RH friend-of, and on my rewatch I was surprised at how little screen time she actually got, and she didn’t do anything memorable.  She was an event coordinator who mostly hung out with Jill and Luann.  She had a really nice apartment.  I’d say it was right up there with Kelly’s as nicest digs of season three.  I decided I hated her from my re-watch, but prior to that time I had thought she was really nice.  Her most famous two lines were probably vouching to Kelly that Bethenny was, in fact, a chef, and saying the Countess’s song was reminiscent of “early Madonna,” though not “Rock and Roll Hall of Fame” caliber (which is a little confusing, because Madonna was in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame at the time, and her early work contributed to her induction).  

That’s probably more than you needed to know about J.Gil, but anyway, that’s the skinny.

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1 hour ago, LibertarianSlut said:

That’s probably more than you needed to know about J.Gil, but anyway, that’s the skinny.

Thanks so much!  I did recognize her in your photo.  I remember her from parties, but had no idea who she was!

 

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Currently rewatching S5 and I can't believe Aviva lasted past Season 5 to Season 6!  It seemed that she was really forced to eat a lot of crow at the S5 Reunion for attacking Ramona over and over again (although she really attacked Sonja a lot too) and it seemed to be a miracle that Andy let her stay for S6.  It's a wonder that Ramonja would ever  want to film with her again after her explosions at St. Barths.  That were totally uncalled for and unprovoked.

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Watching the Season 2 reunion and a question from a fan at the Reunion was if Jill felt responsible for the 2008 stock market because she "spends a lot".  Hahahaaha.  What was she buying that season?????

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I re-watched season two.  I thought the beginning, in the Hamptons, was good, and then it just fizzled.  

I thought the entire storyline about the charity awful.  It was so boring.  They almost never mentioned the charity itself.  It was all about ego and socializing and bullshit.  They never said whether the funds were going to research or what.  They kept calling “rheumatoid arthritis” simply “arthritis,” which can be mistaken for osteoarthritis.  It was like having a charity to benefit people with diabetes Type 1 and just saying “diabetes” all season.  It’s misleading.  There was something I didn’t like about Christina, the charity director.  It wasn’t her personality, but I just didn’t want to keep seeing her.  I feel like she needed a makeover badly.  Long black hair with bangs is a really tough look to pull off, and she didn’t.  

The fight about the signage was really strange.  Whenever any drama was going on about it, there was this strange woman Andrea who showed up in every single scene, seemingly just to egg on the drama.  I have no idea how she got there, as she was a lot younger than everyone and seemed really rough around the edges, but she popped up for this and only this, like she was directing it or something.

 I don’t see how the drama could have been real.  Bethenny said she was going to bartend, and she didn’t even go behind the bar.  That was just another sign that the stuff they discussed at the charity meetings was bullshit for TV.   For someone who needed the Frangelico sign behind the bar so that the sponsor would get credit, she wasn’t mad at all when she walked in and saw their signs had all been completely taken down, only to seem mad about it later into the event.  Wouldn’t she be freaking out as soon as she walked in and saw that all the Frangelico signs had been taken down, as that could cause permanent damage between her and that brand?  Or was it a fourth wall thing where Frangelico had already gotten its name up there when they were taking down the signs, so Frangelico didn’t care?  Either way, it made no sense to me, and should have been fleshed out more.  We could have skipped Bethenny teaching Luann’s housekeeper how to cook pasta in the finale to make time for this.  

I liked Alex and Simon this season.  It was crystal clear they were the comedic relief.  Their haunted shack in the Hamptons was so funny.  I don’t think anyone was buying it.  I saw Simon’s side about “ruining the fucking surprise.”  (If I had hired a car and asked them to drive on a route to surprise my husband and the driver failed to heed my instructions, I would be livid). What surprised me was that we never got to hear the driver’s side.  He never said one word.  He just kept driving and ruining the fucking surprise!  I hated Alex’s skinny girl logo.  It made Bethenny look fat, which was Bethenny’s complaint about the logo, which is how Alex got the work in the first place.  I don’t know what it meant for Simon to say in the press that Jill was from Long Island and it showed, but whatever.  I really liked Alex telling Bethenny off in a very calm way at the reunion that she said things behind people’s backs and Alex didn’t like it.  For Ramona to say Alex and Simon have no depth, she is just showing her ignorance between the words “depth” and “social climbing”.  Ramona has no depth.  

Simon had a perfectly good point that Ramona has no leg to stand on kissing Playmates on TV, but disavowing Alex for having topless photos in a tabloid.  Double standard.  

Ramona was pretty awful this season.  She was lying a lot (saying she went to Christina’s house instead of Jill’s and that’s why she was late, saying she knew where the social registry was) and trying to make it like she had the perfect life.  I think she was trying to be the other Luann.  She was such a pain in the ass about the tennis match, which was so boring.  All of their tennis was so boring back then.  I don’t know whose idea it was that tennis was a topic that would hold the audience’s attention span for multiple episodes over the course of seasons one and two.

Ramona’s businesses were so boring.  Bethenny had no call to tell her how to brand at Ramona’s party though.  Bethenny said in a TH that Ramona didn’t ask for her opinion, so why was she giving it so vehemently?  The single thing about this season that bothered me possibly more than the charity was the amount of times Ramona said “you know what.”  I am not sure if she was doing it to calm her brain or to sound sophisticated, but it was like a tick, or a stutter, and she does it to this day, and I would have thought that if she was this Uber chic, sophisticated Upper East Side woman that she was pretending to be back then, her vocabulary would be more refined.  (Then again, the Countess is famous for saying, “alls I know,” which is so bad I don’t even know how to comment on it). 

Ramona sounded so old saying she didn’t want to go to Alex’s housewarming party because it was from 8 to 10 and she ate dinner at that time, so she couldn’t go to Brooklyn, because she didn’t eat in Brooklyn.  Ok grandma, go to bed in the UES at 10 pm and never grace Brooklyn with your presence.  I’m sure the people of Brooklyn know they’re getting the better end of that deal.

Luann had a diminished presence on this season.  We almost never see her husband.  Alex was a man “like twice her age” and he was “much older.”  I’m not sure why it would have hurt Victoria to hear it at the cancer society.  Victoria was laughing.  Ramona was right that Luann came for Ramona’s dating advice first, and then to hear at the reunion that Ramona was frustrated that she had to film with Luann while she was getting Mario’s best friend’s number and pretending to have the perfect marriage explained a lot.  Luann going after Ramona’s crazy eyes numerous times was such a shitty thing to do.  Bethenny was perfect in explaining to Luann that she painted herself into a corner about being “The Countess” and she couldn’t get out.  It was hysterical when they were at the cancer benefit and Luann took the mike to tell everyone to be quiet and then went back to her table to resume talking.  

I don’t think Luann was wrong for telling that little girl who wanted to be a model that she was tall and gorgeous and she could definitely be a model and “losing weight is the easy part.”  What would the alternative have been, to let her think that she had a good chance of becoming a model in NY when she was clearly obese?  That seems far more cruel.  

This was really Jill’s season.  I liked almost everything about her.  She made such an effort to be kind to Alex and Simon, when no one else was really bothering with them.  I loved all of her scenes, including the interview with the BBC, getting the birthday presents from Bobby (and I don’t blame her for the iPhone. I know it’s 12 years later, but how many of us would be completely happy if our husbands got us a brand new car that wasn’t compatible with the iPhone?).  It felt like she had her pulse on the series.  I didn’t like her apartment in its final stage, but I liked the idea of making a storyline out of “freshening up” an apartment.  She never took things too far or too seriously.  I really liked the scene of Alex and Simon and their kids going shopping at Zarin fabrics.  I liked meeting her parents and her relationship with them and between Bobby and her dad.  I liked how much Jill supported Ally, but I thought it was strange and irresponsible that Jill had never talked to Ally about sex or drugs until she was 14. I thought Mario was insane with the way he treated Jill.  He either really hated her, was really in love with her, or he was just the biggest baby on the face of the earth, but it looked really bad for him.  

Kelly, if I have to say anything good about her, is that she had a great apartment and she seemed to be a great mom in the way that she spoke to her kids, especially when she went with Jill to get a custom bag made and Kelly’s daughter Teddy put a bag over her head and Kelly gave her a lecture that her behavior was inappropriate.  Her story at the reunion about getting arrested for hitting that guy made no sense, and for Luann to say he isn’t a gentleman was so wrong.  Luann, you’re going to kick a cop in a few years, and he’s going to press charges.  Is he not a gentleman either?   I have a feeling Kelly did rip off that jewelry, because she seems like she doesn’t understand a lot of things going on around her.  As far as the charity, Kelly not wanting to lend her name to something was valid on its face.  I wouldn’t have put my name on that charity either.  But when she put her name on the Halloween party that had a cash bar, it sort of negated all that.  If Kelly wasn’t going out with Max and was jut parading him around on camera to give him exposure, that wasn’t cool.  Max got so much attention that season when he really had nothing to do with the show, and it was frustrating.  

 Side note:  Ramona and Bethenny are the worst dancers, doesn’t matter what music is playing.  Other than Ramona dancing with Simon at the finale, which was funny, they are all arms and jerky shoulders and they should stop doing it on the show, because it’s embarrassing.

Although I still liked her back then, Bethenny was boring this season.  She acted like she got the cover and the spread in Social Life magazine for her looks, as if she is a looker.  At that time, her body was a 10 (seriously one of the best bodies I have ever seen, which is so inspiring for someone who is 37, although she lied through her teeth about having breast implants), but her face was only like a 4.  She got the article and the spread because of the show, not because this Devora woman saw her dancing on a bar, which is what we were led to believe.  I was a little bored by her businesses.  I think the repeated references to Madonna were dated and embarrassing.  She also comes about as far from a place of yes than anyone.  I remember thinking that exact thought when this first aired in 2009.  Then she came out with a book called A Place of Yes, and I was like, ah, so that’s what that was all about—a book plug.  I do think there was some jealousy of Kelly, although that wasn’t the dominating force behind why they couldn’t get along.  

I think the fighting between Kelly and Bethenny was really interesting.  I used to think it was like Bethenny was 100% right, Kelly 100% wrong, and now I think it was more like 80/20 in favor of Bethenny.  Bethenny didn’t like Kelly from things that had gone on before, and Bethenny was looking to freeze her out.  It came out in the season three reunion that Bethenny had a campaign to get the other women not to film with Kelly to get her off the show.  There was one point Bethenny did a scene when she said she had no idea how or why Kelly was suddenly all around all the time, as if she didn’t know they were filming on the same reality show.  Kelly sat next to Bethenny at a fashion show and invited her to a party, and Bethenny just got all defensive, saying she knew all those people too, which was so far from the point, and it actually made Bethenny look like the person she was painting Kelly to be.  

Bethenny was just as much of a name-dropper as Kelly!  My husband, who kind of lurks in the background while I do my rewatches was even like, “she mentions Ginny Hilfiger a lot!” when he passed by.  

It was really interesting that Bethenny didn’t just come for Kelly at the reunion, but Luann and Jill did too.  Alex was very quiet at the reunion, so it was Ramona and Kelly vs all of right couch for awhile, which is strange in light of the way events unfolded. 

I just realized I forgot to watch the Lost Footage episode, the one where Simon comes onstage and says out of all the women besides his wife, he wants to sleep with “Lu” (not to be confused with The Countess) the most.  If there is anything good there to write about, I’ll come back.  

Edited by LibertarianSlut
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I dunno, I really enjoyed season 2. Seasons 1 to 3 were a really great run for this show.

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Ok, so this is what I got from Lost Footage and some stuff I also noticed from season two (because I haven’t yakked about it enough):

—Bethenny really has a ball with gay men, like it’s this novel concept that she doesn’t really get, but she’ll try.  It happened during the season and it happened when she went to Fire Island.  She is always like, “is anyone here attracted me??”  And “this is like being at a buffet where nothing has calories, but your jaw is wired shut.”  Some of it was funny, like when Bethenny went to the salon and casually asked the receptionist if he came out yet, and he casually replied,“not yet,” but it was also a little odd how much she seemed to struggle with the concept.  

—It was funny that Alex’s and Simon’s gay friends said they weren’t going to have more kids, because one of their tubes were tied, and then they said they’re not having another kid, because one is an accessory and two is a minivan.  Love.  Where have they been?

—OMG, I love, love, love that Jill says Mario’s name as “Mario.”  I have no idea where this “Maurio” shit came from—Ramona probably renamed him when she met him, and it sounds pretentious and bizarre every single time I hear it, especially from Ramona.  I wish Jill was still around simply just to keep saying “Mario” to drive Ramona and Luann crazy.

—I was so glad Bethenny tried to teach Ally how to ride a bike, and to wonder out loud what was wrong with her parents that they didn’t teach her, and even though Ally has arthritis, she should still be able to do this.  I think it’s sad that Allison was so overweight at 14 (and never grew out of it).  I don’t think you can blame the RA.  I know Jill said that Allison was her “miracle baby” (and word recently dropped that she came from a sperm donor) and I think Jill just overindulged her to the point of harm.  I think if Bethenny was her mom and Ally had the same genes, she would be thin, or at least not overweight.  I look at that as another omission on Jill’s part in parenting, in addition to not talking to her daughter about sex or drugs.

—I love Kelly’s apartment.  I can’t stop saying it, because I only have negative things to say about pretty much all of the rest of the NYC living spaces (their Hamptons homes are great).  No one else’s apartments were as appealing to me as this until Bethenny came back on the show and debuted her sick series of apartments in later seasons.  Alex’s townhouse is actually my second favorite at this time.  Luann’s townhouse was tiny and it appeared little thought was put into the decoration, Jill’s and Ramona’s seemed pretty tiny for rich women raising families, and there is just nothing to say about Bethenny’s first apartment.  I mean...it wasn’t cluttered.  I hate clutter.  

—Bethenny loves to joke about taking her top off with dates and men.  She did it three times that I can think of off the top of my head this season.  She may be the underdog, but she is very confident in her predictions that men are going to find her attractive.  This is another reason I think she found Kelly to be more competition for her than she let on.  

—I really like the way that Jill confronted Ramona at the reunion.  Jill is not splitting the atom, but she gets her points out better than Ramona (and Luann and Kelly) verbally.  Ramona also held her own a little in the point-making department, so I found it interesting.  This was so elevated over Teresa Giudice and Melissa Gorga trading incoherent barbs on RHNJ.  

—I love the question of “who would you vote off the show”?  I think that should be asked every year.  Some women didn’t want to answer, because this isn’t an elimination-based show.  We may have to see about that in the next couple of years...how good could that get if someone got voted off at the end of every season?!? (If I was on this show, I would have voted Jill off at the end of season two, because she would be the biggest threat to me, because she owned the season.  As a viewer, at this point, I would probably drop Luann, not Kelly, because there is something about watching Kelly that fascinates me like a train wreck, whereas Lu just wasn’t giving us much at that time.  However, my vote would have been a mistake, because Luann has so much more to give in coming seasons that it’s amazing!!)

I think this season could have been great if they’d filmed more together and let fashion and home decoration dominate instead of the charity and tennis, and if it was a bit shorter, like 10 regular episodes.  So much could have wound up on the cutting room floor.  There is nothing entertaining about watching Ramona shill her product.  But this was a pretty great group of women.  I would have liked to see more of Alex filming with Kelly

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I'm watching Season 3 and Jill is having a party at Saks with like, 50 women.  And freaking SIMON is there!  Did he ever let Alex out of the house without him?

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Oh boy, Kelly really shouldn't wear things that expose her midriff.  Even when it was tighter it's always been kind of odd.  She looks amazing for her age, but at some point, you gotta hang it up with the exposed midriff.

 

27898288-8278801-image-a-40_158835709702

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Oh boy, Kelly really shouldn't wear things that expose her midriff.  Even when it was tighter it's always been kind of odd.  She looks amazing for her age, but at some point, you gotta hang it up with the exposed midriff.

She has a very square, masculine body.  Someone who didn't know her would think she had transitioned. 

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On 4/19/2020 at 4:12 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

Speaking of getting unnecessarily upset on an island, I had forgotten that Heather was crying—crying!—that some of her single friends brought men back to the home in Turks & Caicos.  I thought she was supposed to be some worldly international businesswoman and she freaks out when someone else is getting some peen?  Girl, bye.  

I am of the opinion that Heather was faking the crying.  She was being such an idiot.

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On 4/30/2020 at 4:41 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

Ramona’s businesses were so boring.  Bethenny had no call to tell her how to brand at Ramona’s party though.  Bethenny said in a TH that Ramona didn’t ask for her opinion, so why was she giving it so vehemently?  The single thing about this season that bothered me possibly more than the charity was the amount of times Ramona said “you know what.”  I am not sure if she was doing it to calm her brain or to sound sophisticated, but it was like a tick, or a stutter, and she does it to this day, and I would have thought that if she was this Uber chic, sophisticated Upper East Side woman that she was pretending to be back then, her vocabulary would be more refined.  (Then again, the Countess is famous for saying, “alls I know,” which is so bad I don’t even know how to comment on it). 

I've been rewatching all the seasons and Ramona says "In all sincerity" at a rate of about once per episode.

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52 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

She has a very square, masculine body.  Someone who didn't know her would think she had transitioned. 

At first glance I thought it was Caitlin Jenner.

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On 4/30/2020 at 4:41 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

I thought Mario was insane with the way he treated Jill.  He either really hated her, was really in love with her, or he was just the biggest baby on the face of the earth, but it looked really bad for him.  

Then he does it with Luann in Season 3.  He is an asshole.

On 4/30/2020 at 4:41 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

Kelly, if I have to say anything good about her, is that she had a great apartment and she seemed to be a great mom in the way that she spoke to her kids, especially when she went with Jill to get a custom bag made and Kelly’s daughter Teddy put a bag over her head and Kelly gave her a lecture that her behavior was inappropriate.  Her story at the reunion about getting arrested for hitting that guy made no sense, and for Luann to say he isn’t a gentleman was so wrong.  

Kelly was still dating that guy almost a decade later!  When I Googled the whole thing there were pictures of them together in 2015 and 2017.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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On 6/8/2015 at 3:14 PM, FaithsMum said:

My other favourite Sonja moment is in season five after Aviva calls her and Ramona white trash. I can't remember word for word what she said, but it's something like "hillbillies can be welcoming. They can say 'welcome to my trailer.'"

Sonja and Ramona's reactions to being called "White trash" by Aviva are HYSTERICAL.  (Season 5 I think)

Sonja in a talking head: One minute I'm opening my gift, next thing you know I'm "white trash". 

Ramona:  White trash?  White trash?  What does that even mean?  I'm going to Google it.

Sonja (completely calm, and eating):  I don't know. It doesn't matter. Who cares? Why say it?!

Also, just as a point of interest, Sonja at the S3 reunion is insanely charming.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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On 5/2/2020 at 10:45 AM, sasha206 said:

Oh boy, Kelly really shouldn't wear things that expose her midriff.  Even when it was tighter it's always been kind of odd.  She looks amazing for her age, but at some point, you gotta hang it up with the exposed midriff.

 

27898288-8278801-image-a-40_158835709702

Oh lord...if you read this article about her in The Daily Mail, then perhaps you caught all the cruel comments attached; some heartbreaking stuff there...I don’t feel as bad for Kelly because she’s still a desperate fame whore after all these years, but it was sad to read the comments about her daughter pictured in her own workout wear with her that day. Her daughter is decidedly much larger than Kelly, but was wearing a smaller black version of this same outfit, so you can imagine the trolling comments. That said, I agree that it’s time for Kelly to put away her midriff finally and get The Daily Mail off speed dial too.  

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12 minutes ago, Sun-Bun said:

Oh lord...if you read this article about her in The Daily Mail, then perhaps you caught all the cruel comments attached; some heartbreaking stuff there...I don’t feel as bad for Kelly because she’s still a desperate fame whore after all these years, but it was sad to read the comments about her daughter pictured in her own workout wear with her that day. Her daughter is decidedly much larger than Kelly, but was wearing a smaller black version of this same outfit, so you can imagine the trolling comments. That said, I agree that it’s time for Kelly to put away her midriff finally and get The Daily Mail off speed dial too.  

I thought it was Katlyn Jenner.

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On 9/11/2017 at 9:12 AM, hoodooznoodooz said:

I completely forgot that Sonja tells all the women that Tomas, the pirate, is the boyfriend of Carole, the owner of Le Ti. Lu does not give two Fs that he is someone's boyfriend.  

Not only that, but Luann makes sure to say "I like her Johnny Depp boyfriend" several times on camera, and they even subtitle her I'm pretty sure.

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5 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Sonja and Ramona's reactions to being called "White trash" by Aviva are HYSTERICAL.  (Season 5 I think)

Sonja in a talking head: One minute I'm opening my gift, next thing you know I'm "white trash". 

Ramona:  White trash?  White trash?  What does that even mean?  I'm going to Google it.

Sonja (completely calm, and eating):  I don't know. It doesn't matter. Who cares? Why say it?!

Also, just as a point of interest, Sonja at the S3 reunion is insanely charming.

I’ve just got seven words for ya “WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE WITHOUT DORINDA???”

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On 4/30/2020 at 4:41 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

Bethenny had a campaign to get the other women not to film with Kelly to get her off the show.  There was one point Bethenny did a scene when she said she had no idea how or why Kelly was suddenly all around all the time, as if she didn’t know they were filming on the same reality show.  Kelly sat next to Bethenny at a fashion show and invited her to a party, and Bethenny just got all defensive, saying she knew all those people too, which was so far from the point, and it actually made Bethenny look like the person she was painting Kelly to be.  

 

Bethenny guts out and eviscerates ANYONE who tells the truth threatening to expose Bethenny's shell game of her fake ass story arc. Her parents, her ex, Kelly etc etc etc That's Bethenny's biggest tantrum aside from her mommy/daddy attention issues. 

On 4/30/2020 at 9:35 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm watching Season 3 and Jill is having a party at Saks with like, 50 women.  And freaking SIMON is there!  Did he ever let Alex out of the house without him?

GAWD I miss them. I would do anything to have them flown over from Australia for a season to see how they have aged.

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Bethenny had a campaign to get the other women not to film with Kelly to get her off the show.

Did any of the other women verify Kelly's accusations during that reunion? I can't remember.

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1 hour ago, Hiyo said:

Did any of the other women verify Kelly's accusations during that reunion? I can't remember.

Yes, I just watched it.  Bethenny says "Yes, I didn't want Kelly to be on the show anymore."

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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Ok, but lots of HWs say they don't want other HWs on...was there an effort from Bethenny to have Kelly excluded from filming?

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8 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Ok, but lots of HWs say they don't want other HWs on...was there an effort from Bethenny to have Kelly excluded from filming?

Maybe you should watch the reunion so you can judge for yourself?

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I'm asking because I don't have access to that reunion at this moment. Maybe if I could watch it, I wouldn't be asking about it, obviously?

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I think Bethenny confirming she doesn't want Kelly to be on the show anymore would be the equivalent of wanting Kelly excluded from filming.  Not on the show anymore = not filming anymore.

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Bethenny confirmed that she had a campaign to not film with Kelly and to try to get the other women not to film with Kelly at the season 3 reunion.  She was very flippant and cavalier about it, because her point was, “yes, I did that because I despise Kelly.  Now Jill, what is your excuse for trying to freeze me out of filming?”

I have Hulu, so if anyone wants me to go back and watch and get a direct quote, just let me know and I’ll try, but the way I described it is about 95% accurate. I rewatched S3 during the quarantine. Bethenny explicitly said she didn’t want to film with, and she didn’t want the other women to film with, Kelly.

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I think Bethenny confirming she doesn't want Kelly to be on the show anymore would be the equivalent of wanting Kelly excluded from filming.  Not on the show anymore = not filming anymore.

Yes but that in and of itself isn't exactly proof. Lots of HWs don't want other HWs on the show, but aren't going around trying to get the other HWs not to film with them.

Now, Bethenny apparently admitting to trying to get the other HWs to not film with Kelly is confirmation. But "I want her off the show!" isn't always proof of anything.

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So I guess I feel like hot shit with my big $5.99/month Hulu subscription, which took me forever to decide to get, so I re-watched season 3, reunion part 2, the scene of who didn’t want to film with whom, and here is what I got: 

Jill is talking about how she didn’t want to film with Bethenny, so that is the issue at hand, and—

Kelly goes to Bethenny, “but that same thing happened to me.  You said that you weren’t going to film with me,”

Bethenny responds, “yeah, I didn’t like you, and I didn’t want you to be on the show.  I’m not denying that.”  

Alex chimes in, “she’s not denying that.”  

Jill goes on to say she’s sorry for trying to freeze Bethenny out of filming and then

Bethenny says to Kelly, “By the way, no one here wanted to film, we didn’t even know you.”  

Jill says, “No, you told me you didn’t want me to film with her,”

Bethenny goes, “I said ‘yes I did.’  I didn’t like her, I didn’t want her on the show, I didn’t—“ <gets cut off>

Then Andy sums up by saying that last season Bethenny didn’t want to film with Kelly, nor did Bethenny want Jill to film with Kelly, and this season (season three) Jill didn’t want to film with Bethenny and the camera scans around and everyone’s face is somber, no one objects, and they go on to talking about Bethenny’s father.    

If anyone wants any more play-by-plays, I’ll be here all week!  Hashtag I need a life.  

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15 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

 

Bethenny says to Kelly, “By the way, no one here wanted to film, we didn’t even know you.”  

Jill says, “No, you told me you didn’t want me to film with her,”

Bethenny goes, “I said ‘yes I did.’  I didn’t like her, I didn’t want her on the show, I didn’t—“ <gets cut off>

Then Andy sums up by saying that last season Bethenny didn’t want to film with Kelly, nor did Bethenny want Jill to film with Kelly, 

Thanks for taking one for the team Libslut!

This is classic bully triangulation, isolation and cutting off someone who is a threat. Bethenny's parents, Kelly (who was more B's age and knew what a wanna be fake B was from their circles), J Hoppy, his parents all know who Bethenny really is. They threatened her story arc and "success"  by telling the truth. It is an amateur game to try to get ahead of that and run them down first before they get to you. Yawn. Kelly had to go because she was a threat of exposure. Then went Jill.

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I’m watching season four, and I can’t believe how different it’s all striking me as opposed to the first time I watched it, when it aired in 2011.

First of all, Cindy is not that bad.  I have no beef with her.  She is quiet, but I think on an ensemble cast of seven, it is good if one or two women are quiet, as long as they have a personality.  I actually find Cindy fascinating.  She is really rich, has a really nice apartment—much nicer than Ramona’s or Jill’s—she runs a business, and she isn’t swayed by people, which is a hard trait to find amongst Housewives.  

I think Cindy got a lot of flak because she wasn’t Bethenny.  The show went from a high-high of season three to a very depressing season four, and people were looking for someone to blame.  I haven’t gotten up to the episode where Cindy shushes Sonja in Sonja’s own kitchen so that Cindy can take a phone call, but I can see where it would build up to that.  Sonja has been gunning for her, and Cindy is saying she doesn’t give a shit about Sonja Morgan.

When I first started watching this season I thought that if they told me that only three women were going to be back next season, I never in a million years would have predicted the combination of Ramona, Sonja and Luann, but as I am watching, it is becoming increasingly obvious.  Jill took off to Australia at the beginning of the season for like three episodes, and even when she came back, she didn’t have any meaty scenes.  Kelly was just crystal clear that she was over the reality show thing.  She didn’t want anything to do with Ramona, yet she would be polite about it, so that was a toxic combination for reality TV, so she had to go.  And Alex really got very little screen time, nor storyline.  

I think they went so wrong in continuing to hash and rehash what they are calling at this point “Poison Island” and Bethenny.  Bethenny, you guys, is for all intents and purposes dead and buried.  Move on to new shit.  

Jill was really making an effort.  She was trying really hard to make amends with Alex.  She did call her a fucking bitch (not to her face) on the first episode, but after that it was all, “Alex, how can we communicate?  Alex, please feel free to come to me.  Alex, can I please tell you my side?”  I think that Jill, to a larger extent than many of them, saw the writing on the wall that there is no Bethenny, and the show has to move on, and she tried.  I saw a ton of growth in her this season.  I’m kind of sad it had to end for her here, because she really didn’t deserve it.  

Luann just became a flying asshole from hell seemingly out of nowhere.  I stupidly watched season three and then I watched season two and now season four, so it’s hard to make a timeline, but she wasn’t even so bad in season three.  I think she just gets so smug when she has a man.  She was similar with Tom how she was with Jacques.  I just couldn’t stand Luann this season.  Her hair looks awful.  She looked bloated, probably from drinking all that wine with Jacques, and what was up with her thinking she was suddenly a wine expert and trying to school Ramona on her wine—that it was grown in the “VEN-et-to Valley” and how dare Ramona refer to it as the “Ve-NET-to Valley” which makes it sound like a place on “Lawn Guy Land.”  

What’s up with the constant Long Island digs in the early seasons of this show?  Luann does realize that she lives in a multi-million dollar home on Long Island at this point in time, right?  And Kelly spends an awful lot of time there, in her own multi-million dollar home.  I’m from Long Island and I grew up in a very nice home.  Not everyone can be from Berlin, CT, with seven people sharing one bathroom and fucking our way onto Italian TV when we can’t understand the language, Luann.  

Alex just backed the wrong horses.  She was another one who made the mistake of thinking Bethenny was still here when she wasn’t.  Bethenny was the glue that held Alex together with Ramona and Sonja, and without Bethenny, Alex was sort of lost in the shuffle.  She should have really written Sonja off with her atrocious behavior at the marriage event.  She should have realized that Ramona is fucking crazy, and stayed friendly with her, but Alex should have been looking to film with Jill, Cindy and Kelly, and keep Luann, Sonja and Ramona at arms’ length. 

The thing with Luann, Sonja and Ramona is that they will always get past their little scrapes and stumbles, but if you jump in there like The Messenger, when everyone already thinks you’re a little too young and weird and poor and that your husband is creepy, you’re not going to be forgiven as easily.  Alex was just off this season.  Her desperation to get her voice heard was palpable, and I almost can’t fault people for writing her off.  She just didn’t have a pulse on the show, and it was manifesting in a way that I would want to distance myself from her too.

Ramona...good job of trying to label her the “alcoholic” this season, you guys.  That part is funny, considering how events actually unfolded in later seasons.  Everything else about Ramona just makes me really uncomfortable.  There’s like some mind-body disconnect where she physically invades people’s spaces, she grabs their hands, she will give a woman a kiss on the cheek in the middle of a conversation, she always pretends she’s crying when there are no tears, and she just doesn’t know how to read a room.  Now that we’re in real time in season 12, and she’s been this way for so long, I’m able to just think she’s some strange older woman who means no harm, but back then I would have really backed away from her too.  I don’t mind the fact that she brought Cindy on the show, and then Cindy immediately started to create distance, because when Ramona and Cindy met at The Four Seasons to talk it out, Ramona was just all shrugs and shifty eyed, and was clearly playing a power game with Cindy, and Cindy was just kind of like, “why won’t you talk to me?”  After getting no response from Ramona, and Ramona just leaving, that is when Cindy told Jill that Ramona acts like a psychopath.  I don’t think she was wrong in her assessment.

Sonja is just disgusting.  First of all, I cannot stand this season, because she is in every fucking scene.  I can’t take it.  I can’t take her.  She is just as crazy as Kelly, loud as Ramona, pompous as Luann, self-important as Alex, and an attention seeker and hog, when I never found her interesting.  I love the episode where she literally shows her ass by forgetting to wear panties under that costume, because I think that was when people finally realized there’s something fucking wrong with her.  She lives in a dream world.  Nothing she says is true. She just makes shit up.  Bethenny and Dorinda both tried to explain to her later in the series that what she used to do/have is not the same of the current state of affairs, and they never made any headway.  

I was so glad Kelly said in Morocco that Sonja’s home needed to be redecorated and re-renovated.  It really needed to be said, and I don’t give a shit that Luann thought it wasn’t proper to say.  Sonja bilked investors out of money, and everyone ran in to protect her when Jill talked about her seven million dollar judgment on air, like Sonja was some delicate flower.  She mentioned that she had some lawyer bills so flippantly so many times that I was just sick.  How about those lawyers who lost money and maybe weren’t able to send their kids to camp that year, or go on vacation?  Does anyone care about them, or just the fact that Sonja wants to keep her disgusting home that she can’t maintain?  

I just can’t take Sonja.  She has no idea who she is.  One minute, she is sitting in her dark kitchen having tea with Cindy and schooling her on the pecking order, and the next she is posing for pictures for a toaster oven book that has never been written with her vulva in full view.  She is entirely inconsistent and I just cannot stand her.  When she kicked Alex out of her house, Alex should have just stayed, as it was a filming location.  What Alex shouldn’t have wasted her time on was fighting with Sonja, because she is not a smart woman at all, and can’t make any points, so why even let her talk?  

This is sort of a strange way to end my harangue against Sonja, but I grew up horseback riding, I rode in college, and I instructed on the sport, so if I’m in a position to judge nothing else—if I can’t prove that Sonja doesn’t have three homes, if I think it’s tacky as shit that she keeps the labels on her clothes, but I can’t prove she’s doing it so that she can return them—I can say that, while Kelly is a decent rider, Sonja was an absolutely terrible rider.  She was riding like I did on maybe my fifth lesson when I was eight or nine.  Literally.  But that didn’t stop Sonja from doing all these talking heads about what a great rider she was, and how she’s ridden all over the world.  And then she fell off a horse that wasn’t doing anything.  Sonja was endangering everyone in the ring, including Kelly and her horse.  And the only thing she said about it was that her riding skills were down.  Your riding skills don’t just decline.  I mean, you can get rusty, but it’s exactly the same premise as the bicycle metaphor.  I haven’t ridden in almost three years, but if I got on a horse right now, I would ride the way I’ve always ridden, maybe not as good, but NOT like Sonja.  

So I can at least prove that Sonja was either wildly overestimating or just lying about her former days of “riding” and I think every single other thing she said was bullshit, and I wish they would have cut her from the show then, over anyone else.  Kelly was even starting to make a little bit of sense this season.

I guess I’ll make another post when I finish my re-watch, because I think these women are going to get worse with Luann’s video coming up.  

I don’t know what was going on behind the scenes at the time, but I would venture to say a better argument could be made at that point in time that Jill and Cindy should not have been cut, than Sonja, Ramona and Luann saved.  An argument could have been made to keep Kelly and Alex as friends-of (even though I don’t like friends-of; I don’t know where to put them in my mind).  

If Bravo knew they were bringing in Heather and Carole, there would have been an argument to be made that Alex should have been able to stay on full-time over Sonja, Ramona or Luann.  I think she would have gotten along great with Carole.  I think, oddly enough, Alex would have even gotten along with Aviva.  But then they would have had to cut either Ramona or Sonja or both from the show, because there is no way in the world I would have wanted to see Ramona and Sonja having good-natured fights with Aviva, and laughing at her, and Alex taking this so seriously and pulling Aviva aside like this is the Camp David Accords, and explaining why it is so poor form to call Sonja and Ramona white trash when Sonja and Ramona are already over the comment and having fun on the beach.  

I think Alex was pretty much a dead man walking by season four, but she did this by picking the wrong alliances—leave the crazy blondes the fuck alone, and just film with whomever and get along and stop acting weird.  That would have been the only way she would have had a chance, and she still probably would have gotten cut, because she’s awkward and her husband is kinda gross.  

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On 5/7/2020 at 4:17 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

 Not everyone can be from Berlin, CT, with seven people sharing one bathroom and fucking our way onto Italian TV when we can’t understand the language, Luann.  

 

OMG this made me laugh out loud, thankyou! haha 

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I just re-watched season five, and I am shocked at how similar my opinions on the players and the season haven’t changed with time.  I started hating Carole at the exact same time as I had in the past, I liked Sonja probably more than any other season, even though she was showing cracks in the foundation, I started liking Heather only at the end of the season, I thought it was quite possibly Ramona’s best season ever (maybe season three was better), I started liking Luann for the first time ever when she went to war with Carole, and I loved Aviva until I hated her, and then I loved to hate her.  It was a very boring season though.

The only thing that stood out for me, that I felt had to be mentioned, was at the reunion, when they were talking about Reid’s St Barth’s comment about Sonja and Ramona being “overweight girls gone wild,” Ramona invoked English common law!  Everyone was going after Aviva for it, and Ramona goes to Carole, “And what about you?  You just sat there.  Under English common law, silence is taken as assent.”  OMG, lol, this is gold, freaking gold, Jerry, I have no idea why this didn’t make the annals of, not just Ramona-isms, but Real Housewives-isms of all times.  This is hilarious!

I’m definitely going to start asserting English common law in everyday parlance!

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My reaction to the SG swag bag on Scary Island was the same as Kelly’s. It was weird. Bethenny was open in her animosity towards Kelly and then Kelly was supposed to drag around all this free marketing for Skinny Girl? Oh no. If it had been a plain red boat ‘n tote that might have been one thing, but a SG branded tote with her initials on it from someone who clearly despised her was in fact quite weird. It was too personal. Like I hate you but here carry my swag around to help get the word out about my brand. I would have felt very uncomfortable with it and I would be in no mood to do Bethenny Frankel any favors.

I always liked Kelly. Unpopular, I know. She seemed like a fun person and I thought she was a good mother. I liked her style and I thought she was pretty. She just wasn’t going to put up with the sh*t Bethenny was slinging for her any longer and it broke her character on the show. 

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Wasn't she lobbing just as much shit in Bethenny's direction?

I just can't get behind the narrative that Bethenny was going around attempting to silence anyone who was a threat for "exposing her", because...it just makes no sense.

Kelly came at Bethenny just as hard ("I'm up here and you're down here!" wasn't a reference to their difference in height...), as Kelly was kind of a social snob.

And Bethenny never went after Jill. Jill in season 3 was rather jealous of Bethenny's success and wanted to take her down a peg or three except it deliciously backfired in Jill's face.

And both Jill and Kelly were booted off the show *after* Bethenny was long gone...and neither Jill nor Kelly had anyone to blame but themselves by that point.

Edited by Hiyo
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9 hours ago, Hiyo said:

I just can't get behind the narrative that Bethenny was going around attempting to silence anyone who was a threat for "exposing her", because...it just makes no sense.

...and yet, that was exactly her M.O. season after season, and it (unfortunately) worked for her more often than not.  

Season 4 is airing on Bravo this Thursday.  Looking forward the Dubai trip and my favorite Countess quote "even Louis Vuitton makes mistakes" :)

 

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When and who did it work on that she got off the show?

Also, Morocco, not Dubai.

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I rewatched the first nine episodes of season six, and it is amazing.  Shakespearean.  I feel like this season gets such a short shrift, because it’s remembered as the season that Aviva threw her leg.  The only other things I ever hear about season six is that Ramona hit Kristen with an oar, Ramona took a helicopter out of the Berkshires to catch Mario cheating in the Hamptons,  Luann was so likable as a friend-of, and Carole and Aviva got in a fight about “writer girl,” but that really doesn’t do the season justice.  

It is a really good season so far.  First of all, it was filmed over the summer, so it is not the same Labor Day to Christmas or Labor Day to February shoot that they do every single fracking season now.  There seems a lot more space for filming because they move back and forth between the Hamptons and New York so much.  Next episode they are going to the Berkshires and I’m not even perking up, because the entire season kind of feels like a vacation. 

Everyone is so visually interesting.  Sonja and Ramona are wearing such pretty clothes, lots of pinks, none of this shitty leather that they wear now.  Aside from them (and quite frankly I’m tired of looking at them), I find the rest of the cast so interesting to look at, whether it’s from beauty or great figures or fashion—Heather isn’t pretty by any stretch, but she does a lot, same with Carole and her tiny body, and I can watch Kristen and Aviva shoot scenes together all day, as two extremely tall, thin blondes with young kids, but the two women cannot stand each other.  It feels like watching a soap opera.  

These women are sharp.  The dialogue is elevated.  Sonja is so much more lucid.  Ramona is crazy, but she’s still with Mario, and I think he served her well.  I find Heather, Aviva and Carole all quite articulate, at least by a Housewives standard, and their fights are epic.  Everyone gets involved in every fight and there are always shifting alliances.  It’s like the opposite of that blonde vs brunette shit from season four.  Even Sonja and Ramona are fighting, and not in a playful way, but sort of a vicious way.  Ramona is trying to distance herself from Sonja because Ramona thinks Sonja is being a train wreck with her bankruptcy (and she’s not wrong).  Kristen can stand there and have an argument too.  She’s not just preeettttyyy (although I do think her finest moments happen in season seven against Bethenny, and I find her kind of annoying in season six).  

But they’re all playing chess.  Since everyone is mostly sober much of the time, the fights are of a much higher caliber.  Everyone has money.  The real estate is much better.  These women have careers (Sonja being the exception on all levels).  It was a really well-matched season before Bethenny came back to railroad everyone, and I am sad, because I feel like it gets overlooked.  I do think the season is going to start to decline really soon, as things just start to get wacky in the Berkshires and then Aviva apparently becomes a hypochondriac and they go to Montana and that’s sorta boring.  But the early episodes are amazing.

I am with everyone else in that I really like Luann this season, but she is not like this saint or angel that she’s made out to be.  She’s not just cool and all uncountessy.  I don’t think that fully occurs until season seven in Turks and Caicos.  Luann is still kind of haughty, at least in the beginning of the season, and she gets in digs against Sonja and she says bitchy things about Carole and Heather too.  Luann is not above the fray in season six.  Thank God.  What are they even doing here if they’re above the fray?  

Carole, OMG, she is fucking insufferable!!!  She is pathetic.  Her self-centeredness shows early and often.  There’s a Fourth of July beach picnic and Carole casually says to Mario, “so, do any of your friends really like me?”  Who says that!!  She refers to herself as “girl” and the other women as “girls” nonstop.  For someone who won an Emmy, she often shows vast swathes of ignorance about culture.  When Ramona was explaining that Sonja’s home might be sold by her bankruptcy trustee, Carole was either completely ignorant about the process, or she was pretending she was completely ignorant about the process to encourage Ramona to give up more details about Sonja—either way, that’s a very dull person to be in their fifties and for her to take the position that her intelligence is beyond reproach, but she has no clue how a bankruptcy works.  It’s one or the other.  (It makes me miss Jill, who was no genius, but who seemed to have a comprehensive understanding about the basic legal, business and commercial aspects of life).  Carole doesn’t even know the most basic Yiddish words that Heather uses, words that I thought every single Manhattanite knew.  She spends a lot of time squinting and looking confused and looking in mirrors.  

Oh, and to add to the conceit, Carole is totally passive-aggressive.  After Aviva accused Carole of having a ghost writer (a fight which Carole started), Carole filmed this scene in her editor’s office where she kept rudely snapping at her editor until the editor finally asked what was wrong and Carole sighs and goes, “this girl...she’s saying I have a ghostwriter.”  And the editor—with Carole’s books conveniently lined up behind her—has to poo-poo how awful of a thing that is to say, and how patently untrue it is.  Snooze.  Wannabe.  Try-hard.  I don’t really believe anything she says.  

I’m sure I’ll be disappointed as the season progresses, but the first nine episodes at least are gold.  And if I was ever having moments of sympathy for Carole when Bethenny attacked her for almost all of season 10 and it was outrageous and sometimes I found myself wondering why it was that I hated Carole, all I have to do is rewatch these episodes.  Even Heather seems over her.  Heather, I wish I could go back in time and warn you that she’s going to dump you next season!  Et tu Brutus, indeed.  

Edited by LibertarianSlut · Reason: Carole sucks
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Oh my gosh. Season 6 feels like it was 12 years ago and it was only 2014 😳 

I don’t think Tinsley would have fit in with Aviva, Heather and Kristen. I could have seen her getting along with Carole to a point. I so agree with how they used to dress. I can’t with the black leather and cold shoulder tops. 

 

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^^^

Ooh, that’s such an interesting concept—thinking about who would get along with whom if they had filmed together!

I agree with your assessment.  I think Tinsley and Carole got along exactly “to a point” when they filmed together.   Remember how jealous Bethenny was, writing them off as only caring about fashion and lashes?  But when it came time for the reunion, Carole disavowed her friendship with Tinsley, lol.  I think this is who Carole’s been all along.

 I hate to keep saying “Jill,” because she was not in this season, but I don’t think Jill would have had much time for Tinsley.  She would have humored her and put her on a shelf with Alex, but there would be no great friendship there.  

I think Heather, with all of her sort of flower power, go mama, lifting up every woman (I’m lukewarm on Heather) would have given Tinsley a chance, and might have defended her if she’d become the underdog, the way that Heather picked really weird battles, like getting so upset when it was implied that Jacques wasn’t really French, or when Sonja made a metaphor about wrestling with pigs and Luann and Heather’s entire face crumbled and she’s like, “Sonja, did you just call Luann a pig?!?”  Hunnah, Luann’s been called a lot worse by a lot better people.  

I think Kristen and Aviva—even though they hated each other—both would have hated Tinsley.  Kristen has some really sharp edges to her.  She’d call Tinsley a drunk little girl the way she called Ramona and Sonja her drunk aunts.  And Aviva would just stare at her coolly.  Shit, that would have been awesome!

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☝️Spot on. I never really ‘got’ Aviva, and her co-dependence with Reid was really annoying. I had a friend like that minus the childhood injury. She always had to bring her bf/fiancé/husband to hang out. Aviva was pretty and had such a great bod that you really forgot about the leg so I’d be like wait why does Reid have to fly her to the cast trip? 

I never warmed up to Heather either and the uncool tattle bs later on kind of sealed the deal for me. Her voice saying “wake up” haunts my memory to this day. 

This is going to sound terrible, but I didn’t really dig the special needs child story lines. It was almost like they were too sad and I just wanted to see cool fashion and houses and parties and drama. Kristen’s kid couldn’t walk or something and Heather’s son had something too but I think his may have been life threatening. 

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1 hour ago, RedDelicious said:

This is going to sound terrible, but I didn’t really dig the special needs child story lines. It was almost like they were too sad and I just wanted to see cool fashion and houses and parties and drama. Kristen’s kid couldn’t walk or something and Heather’s son had something too but I think his may have been life threatening. 

Yeah, I feel the same way.  Heather’s son had a bad liver, severe food allergies, hearing problems and something else.  They really didn’t harp on it, and it wasn’t something that resonated with me either.  Ditto for Kristen.  I watch this shows for drama and conflict and conflict resolution.  It feels a bit like emotional manipulation to devote camera time to sick children or adults.  

I’m not saying it was the case here, but whenever a really serious illness or injury comes into play on reality TV, I generally don’t comment on it.  I’m not interested in discussing how bad I feel for people, especially if I think it’s expected.  Sometimes I think it comes off condescending.  

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Ya, it’s just depressing, and even more so when the husband is a massive @sshole like Josh Taekman or in the case of OC Jim Edmonds. Though it must be said, and this is going to sound even worse, I don’t think either of those guys wanted kids. If we learn nothing else from the Housewives, it’s that going ahead with the kid thing when both sides aren’t 100% on-board is a recipe for disaster. 

I think back to when Bryn was born on the other show and Bethenny was still high on oxytocin, she and Jason were the sweetest. That may have been the only time I really liked her. 

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Season 6 was nice, but season 7 was definitely an improvement for me.

And in the whole Carole vs Aviva story, team Carole here.

Edited by Hiyo
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Season 4 is on today and the women are in Morocco. Cringing with second hand embarrassment for Sonja and Ramona's ugly American comments. Both saying that the country is dirty, unsafe within ear shot of th driver in his country.  Demanding that the staff wait on them hand  and foot. Sonja insinuating that  the staff at the riad are thiefs and will likely steal her luggage. Disgusting display of arrogance and ignorance.  

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