S01.E07: The Dark Along the Ways

[Haleth]

I am enjoying the show but sheesh, is there anything that wasn’t stolen from Tolkien?  The Fellowship (including the long lost king) travels through Moria, battling a fearsome monster.  At least Gandolf Moraine didn’t fall. They escape and rest in Minas Tirith. But Frodo and Gandalf Rand and Moraine leave the Fellowship behind and enter Mordor alone.

Maybe the only original idea is (as a lot of us suspect) all 5 combined are the dragon. Each has a special skill set that will be needed to defeat Sauron. No way would the reveal by Rand that it’s him be the solution this soon.

What happened to the Ogier?

Lan and Nynaeve are the best part. They have chemistry galore. Loved the visit with the folks. Rand and Egwene?  Not so much. Both characters are so boring. 

[Taryn74]

11 hours ago, quarks said:

Moiraine's hair has HAD IT. Just HAD IT. I can kinda see why.

Ha! Her mussy hair made me giggle.

 

11 hours ago, quarks said:

The whole section of the Ways really did look a lot like Moira in Lord of the Rings, didn't it?

I told hubby it was nice of them to neatly lay out the path in Heroscape tiles like that so they wouldn't get lost. Heh.

 

11 hours ago, quarks said:

I think the show has been signaling that Perrin had some additional guilt beyond just killing his wife, and signaling some feelings for Egwene, but the actual reveal felt awkward, and not just because it was awkward for all four people in it.

Yeah, I've picked up on a few ....lingering.... looks from Perrin this whole time, and assumed that Egwene knew he was into her (or that they had been a thing in the past) and was choosing to not make a big deal out of it for sake of their friendship. But IMO there was nothing there to make Nynaeve be all 'obviously they're both in love with you and I'm tired of it!' all of a sudden. That came out of nowhere.

 

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

I think [Egwene] channelled twice. Once to make the fireball that distracted Valda, then again to burn Perrin's rope - she's looking right at the smouldering ropes as Valda mocks her. There's been no evidence that Perrin can channel.

That's the way I took it. Perrin was unknowingly summoning the wolves, but Egwene was burning the ropes off his arms so he could break free and fight.

[paigow]

17 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

Ha! Her mussy hair made me giggle.

Can she use The One Power to make some gel? Or is that a weapon and therefore an oath-breaker?

[Danny Franks]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

I am enjoying the show but sheesh, is there anything that wasn’t stolen from Tolkien?  

Lots. Forgive the brief book talk, but Robert Jordan wrote the first book as a very overt LOTR 'homage', which is what most fantasy authors in the 1980s were doing. But this isn't a one book series, it's a fourteen book series.

[DoctorAtomic]

It's like saying 'The Simpsons did it'. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

22 hours ago, phoenics said:

We watched and had the exact same reactions.  I have not read the books so I'm still looking at everything with wonder and amazement - I have no idea where anything is going but I'm enjoying the ride.  

I also felt the Rand reveal was totally unearned - I was left scratching my head like - are you sure he's the dragon? I don't believe it at all.  I keep thinking they all are.  Maybe there is something about his species (?) that clouds things due to his relationships with the others?

And Lan/Nynaeve - whew - that ship came out of nowhere to me and grabbed on tight.  Love them.  It is nice watching Nynaeve soften around Lan.

And Rand/Egwene/Perrin - le sigh.  I don't get this at all.  That felt like whiplash. And it definitely complicates what happened in the first episode.  If I was him I'd be even more eaten with guilt over that - but at the same time - until he and Egwene were off on their own, I saw nothing from him to her.  Not a thing.  And even then it just felt platonic?  So Rand's jealousy just felt overblown. But then again, his reactions to Egwene have always felt whiny and overblown - the show just hasn't spent enough time explaining why he's so clingy to her.

Both Rand and Nynaeve are far more wary of Moraine than the others and it feels like the show didn't really delve into why enough.

Nonbook reader here, but I assumed that Rand was the Dragon because of tropes. I am very dubious that a fantasy series launched in the 1980s would have had a Rand type protagonist (lawful good, somewhat insecure, mysterious origin, at least one dead parent) and not have him be the main central character. (Feel free to correct me if there are a lot of fantasy series from then that did center around someone who was more chaotic like Mat or a woman). Now it very well could be that the TV people are making it so all five are the dragon or something. 

The show made an attraction between L/N part of the forefront a couple episodes back when the warder who killed himself (I think) pointed out that N hulked out and channeled like a badass in reaction to L's death. I do/did read some of N's resentment of Moraine as jealousy that Moraine and Nan have a bond (and have presumably been doing it) for years.

There was a moment in the first episode where it seemed clear to me that P was into E. P said something about R's relationship with E before the Trolloc attack that definitely seemed to telegraph wistfulness about their relationship. Maybe I'll go back and watch it. P's time with the Way of the Leaf people also seemed to me like he was getting a little jealous of the grandson Leaf guy. I don't know if the show needs to explain why Rand is a clingy, whiny douchebag. He just is one. 

What I have gotten from the show:

N generally does not seem to like the Aes Sedai and authority figures in general, and therefore does not like Moraine. Also, jealousy over Lan. Also, Moraine specifically has been somewhat of a condescending jerk to her personally.

R is worried that M is going to lure E away from him with all the come-be-an-Aes-Sedai talk, which would leave him in the lurch. He is also worried that M is attempting abandon Mat, or worse, gentle/kill Mat. As a man, R is also presumably afraid that Moraine may target him.  

I think Mat was fairly skeptical of Moraine too, which manifested in him not going through the gate. The only two that don't seem skeptical are E, who is envisioning herself as special and is all in, and P, who seems like of like a big kind-of-dopey guy.

[quarks]

4 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

Yeah, I've picked up on a few ....lingering.... looks from Perrin this whole time, and assumed that Egwene knew he was into her (or that they had been a thing in the past) and was choosing to not make a big deal out of it for sake of their friendship. But IMO there was nothing there to make Nynaeve be all 'obviously they're both in love with you and I'm tired of it!' all of a sudden. That came out of nowhere.

 

Yeah, this, exactly. From what we've seen on the show, I can absolutely buy that Perrin has had some sort of feelings for Egwene all this time and only married Laila after Rand and Egwene got together. But otherwise we've mostly seen a pretty strong, supportive friendship between Rand and Perrin, including that nice moment where they banded together to help Mat buy lanterns or whatever for Mat's sisters. And when exactly did Nynaeve see all this rivalry over Egwene? I don't think this was sold at all well on screen. 

[AnimeMania]

56 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I do/did read some of N's resentment of Moraine as jealousy that Moraine and Nan have a bond (and have presumably been doing it) for years.

Nynaeve dislikes all Aes Sedai because (episode 1) she tells a story about how her mentor was mistreated when trying to apply to be an Aes Sedai.

[DoctorAtomic]

I can buy that maybe he developed feelings for her while they traveled together after the group was separated. Especially being through such a traumatic experience with Valda, confusion as to why the wolves are his friends, literally everything since his childhood town was ravaged by monsters out of scary bedtime stories. Saying he always had feelings for her and only married Leila as consolation is just tacked on and not necessary imo. I didn't see anything between them while they were all in the Two Rivers. 

56 minutes ago, quarks said:

And when exactly did Nynaeve see all this rivalry over Egwene?

I don't see the reason for all the arguing scene beyond Rand defending Mat. The whole triangle is just derivative and seems out of place over the course of the season. 

[Anduin]

I hope Liandrin comes back. What's her reaction going to be when she finds out three male channelers were right under her nose in Tar Valon? That'll piss her off for sure. And one is the actual Dragon? Will she side with him or try to take him out? I suspect she'll try to stop him. To me, she's the right kind of antagonist. Some are too forgettable, some are too evil. But she's in the fun sweet spot.

[UnoAgain]

54 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I can buy that maybe he developed feelings for her while they traveled together after the group was separated. Especially being through such a traumatic experience with Valda, confusion as to why the wolves are his friends, literally everything since his childhood town was ravaged by monsters out of scary bedtime stories. Saying he always had feelings for her and only married Leila as consolation is just tacked on and not necessary imo. I didn't see anything between them while they were all in the Two Rivers. 

I don't see the reason for all the arguing scene beyond Rand defending Mat. The whole triangle is just derivative and seems out of place over the course of the season. 

Well ita not really a triangle.. But as I said and others have pointed out...it seemed pretty obvious he was carrying a torch for her... Not it also feels like he came to some kind of terms with it.. But looking back on the way the wife was... I imagine she also knew.. That she was at best 1b in his heart... Also seems that Nyaneave knew since epi one.. Which leads me to believe they are telling.. Not showing...that Perrin ans Rand have had arguments before.. That maybe in the surface were about one thing.. But to ppl who know... Nyanaeve... Perrin's wife... Maybe even Egwene... I dunno tho as they had her focus all her attn to Consoling Rand... For what I dunno... She's never done anything wrong... But I can't say if she knew how Perrin felt... But with her chasing after Rand and then sleeping with him, I can't say she's too concerned with how Perrin feels at the moment 

[Tachi Rocinante]

30 minutes ago, Anduin said:

I hope Liandrin comes back. What's her reaction going to be when she finds out three male channelers were right under her nose in Tar Valon? That'll piss her off for sure. And one is the actual Dragon? Will she side with him or try to take him out? I suspect she'll try to stop him. To me, she's the right kind of antagonist. Some are too forgettable, some are too evil. But she's in the fun sweet spot.

She will clench her manly man-hating square jaw and brood some more, and then take it out on her "secret" manly man. Man.

It's not Rand.  At least not by himself.

[paigow]

Reptiles are more likely to have yellow eyes than wolves... How would Perrin communicate with wolves if not by channeling??

[Chicago Redshirt]

9 hours ago, quarks said:

Yeah, this, exactly. From what we've seen on the show, I can absolutely buy that Perrin has had some sort of feelings for Egwene all this time and only married Laila after Rand and Egwene got together. But otherwise we've mostly seen a pretty strong, supportive friendship between Rand and Perrin, including that nice moment where they banded together to help Mat buy lanterns or whatever for Mat's sisters. And when exactly did Nynaeve see all this rivalry over Egwene? I don't think this was sold at all well on screen. 

I went back to the pilot. In it, there is a big bat mitsvah/quincinera-seeming coming of age ceremony featuring Egwene. A ton of women are in attendance, and after it is over, people are celebrating at a pub that afternoon. It is also apparently the eve of a big holiday.

When  Egwene comes in, we are shown similar reaction shots of Rand and Perrin (but not Mat, who was also there somewhere). Hours apparently pass because it's dark. Rand and Perrin talk about Egwene's ceremony. Rand hasn't been able to talk to her. Perrin says he's sure she's busy. Then Moraine and Lan come in and Rand and Perrin talk about her. Nynaeve interrupts to say that they'll be happier and safer when Moraine's gone. She then asks Perrin, "Where's Laila?" She almost doesn't give him a chance to respond before continuing, "Probably at the forge. Iron's hard to work alone."

Perrin leaves. saying, "Give Egwene my best." He indeed finds Laila at the forge and asks, "What are you doing in here? Everyone's at the inn." Laila doesn't respond and just keeps on working. "They said you didn't even go to her ceremony." She still doesn't respond. He puts his arms around her. "I love you." She takes a sec and responds, "I know." She leans back into him and he has an expression on his face.

It seems to me that especially with knowing what we now know, but even without its benefit, these scenes hint at a lot:

1. Perrin had been and continues on some level to be interested in Egwene.

2. His interest was obvious enough to Nynaeve, who in so many words was like, "Stop slobbering after her and take care of your neglected wife."

3. Laila was jealous enough of Egwene that she would refuse to go to both a ceremony that seemingly most of the other townswomen attended (such that her absence was noticed and to go to the party celebrating that party.

4. Perrin knew he had to do some damage control, which is why he transitioned from "Where have you been?" to "I love you" as if to assure Laila that she didn't have to worry about Egwene.

5. His expression when she said she knew could be read, I suppose, in a lot of ways. But I don't think it can be read as "I'm so in love with Laila."

I think it is fair that there might not have been scenes since the pilot that showed Nynaeve watching Perrin mooning over Egwene. But at the same time, there doesn't need to be scenes involving the three showing this when the characters have apparently known each other for years, and she would have had untold numbers of times to observe him. Also, I'd guess as Wisdom, Nynaeve would be akin to a cross between a priest, a doctor and a counselor. It's certainly possible that on top of a small town not really having much in the way of secrets, Laila could have directly confessed her fears to Nynaeve, or Perrin could or whatever.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Chicago Redshirt

[UnoAgain]

25 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I went back to the pilot. In it, there is a big bat mitsvah/quincinera-seeming coming of age ceremony featuring Egwene. A ton of women are in attendance, and after it is over, people are celebrating at a pub that afternoon. It is also apparently the eve of a big holiday.

When  Egwene comes in, we are shown similar reaction shots of Rand and Perrin (but not Mat, who was also there somewhere). Hours apparently pass because it's dark. Rand and Perrin talk about Egwene's ceremony. Rand hasn't been able to talk to her. Perrin says he's sure she's busy. Then Moraine and Lan come in and Rand and Perrin talk about her. Nynaeve interrupts to say that they'll be happier and safer when Moraine's gone. She then asks Perrin, "Where's Laila?" She almost doesn't give him a chance to respond before continuing, "Probably at the forge. Iron's hard to work alone."

Perrin leaves. saying, "Give Egwene my best." He indeed finds Laila at the forge and asks, "What are you doing in here? Everyone's at the inn." Laila doesn't respond and just keeps on working. "They said you didn't even go to her ceremony." She still doesn't respond. He puts his arms around her. "I love you." She takes a sec and responds, "I know." She leans back into him and he has an expression on his face.

It seems to me that especially with knowing what we now know, but even without its benefit, these scenes hint at a lot:

1. Perrin had been and continues on some level to be interested in Egwene.

2. His interest was obvious enough to Nynaeve, who in so many words was like, "Stop slobbering after her and take care of your neglected wife."

3. Laila was jealous enough of Egwene that she would refuse to go to both a ceremony that seemingly most of the other townswomen attended (such that her absence was notand to go to the party celebrating that party.

4. Perrin knew he had to do some damage control, which is why he transitioned from "Where have you been?" to "I love you" as if to assure Laila that she didn't have to worry about Egwene.

5. His expression when she said she knew could be read, I suppose, in a lot of ways. But I don't think it can be read as "I'm so in love with Laila."

I think it is fair that there might not have been scenes since the pilot that showed Nynaeve watching Perrin mooning over Egwene. But at the same time, there doesn't need to be scenes involving the three showing this when the characters have apparently known each other for years, and she would have had untold numbers of times to observe him. Also, I'd guess as Wisdom, Nynaeve would be akin to a cross between a priest, a doctor and a counselor. It's certainly possible that on top of a small town not really having much in the way of secrets, Laila could have directly confessed her fears to Nynaeve, or Perrin could or whatever.

I also feel like there was a scene... Where he was having a bad dream.. And she said something to the effect of "I know "... Which I took to mean she knew he loved Egwene...or Loved her more than he did Laila.. And it really drives home his guilt when the person he ends up with is egwene for the month they're seperated

[DearEvette]

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I think Mat was fairly skeptical of Moraine too, which manifested in him not going through the gate. The only two that don't seem skeptical are E, who is envisioning herself as special and is all in, and P, who seems like of like a big kind-of-dopey guy.

I read Perrin as someone who is still grieving , and worse, racked by guilt.  They haven't really given us a lot of time markers, except for them being on the road for a month between Shadar Logoth and Tar Valon.   But I would venture to guess that at this point it is fair to say the Bel Tine Trolloc massacre and his accidental murder of Laila couldn't be more than, what three months ago?  So for him I think it is less being all in like Egwene but more along the lines of wanting to be somewhere do something to get away from all that numbing guilt and grief.  At least that is the vibe the actor is giving me, someone who is just numb and going along just to get away.

[phoenics]

20 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The show made an attraction between L/N part of the forefront a couple episodes back when the warder who killed himself (I think) pointed out that N hulked out and channeled like a badass in reaction to L's death. I do/did read some of N's resentment of Moraine as jealousy that Moraine and Nan have a bond (and have presumably been doing it) for years.

Just to be clear - when I said the ship came out of nowhere I meant in general on the show. I saw sparks between them the moment she tried to kill him in the woods and he was so shocked and after he disarmed her and was holding onto her from behind he goes “oooohhhh you tried to kill me!”.

I saw the sparks right then. 
 

My point was more so about the whole show - when I picked the show up to watch I had no clue this ship was a possibility and I was surprised at how fast I started shipping them. 

The show dropped every romantic trope it could find on them - totally agree with you there.  Sorry my comment wasn’t clear. 

[phoenics]

15 hours ago, UnoAgain said:

I also feel like there was a scene... Where he was having a bad dream.. And she said something to the effect of "I know "... Which I took to mean she knew he loved Egwene...or Loved her more than he did Laila.. And it really drives home his guilt when the person he ends up with is egwene for the month they're seperated

It was the first episode when they’d had an argument about how she didn’t come to the pub for Egwene’s celebration or to her trial before that. It was clear there was tension between them over something to do with Egwene. 
 

Then later they are in bed together and Perrin says “I love you” to Laila and she responds “I know”. 
 

That was the first inkling I got that there was something going on but after Perrin accidentally kills Laila (felt so bad for him) I forgot about it and was mostly watching Perrin and willing him not to fall into a pit of despair. 

[TheGourmez]

On 12/18/2021 at 9:18 AM, Haleth said:

I am enjoying the show but sheesh, is there anything that wasn’t stolen from Tolkien?  

This totally cracks me up how close it all is to Tolkien. But look, I'm a fantasy writer too. So I get it.

 

On 12/18/2021 at 9:18 AM, Haleth said:

Lan and Nynaeve are the best part. They have chemistry galore. Loved the visit with the folks. Rand and Egwene?  Not so much. Both characters are so boring. 

It was odd seeing everyone's reactions to this pairing the last couple eps, because I did not see the chemistry. But I did this one! Rand and Egwene had chemistry in the first episode for me, but not since.

[RachelKM]

On 12/18/2021 at 2:15 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Nonbook reader here, but I assumed that Rand was the Dragon because of tropes. I am very dubious that a fantasy series launched in the 1980s would have had a Rand type protagonist (lawful good, somewhat insecure, mysterious origin, at least one dead parent) and not have him be the main central character. (Feel free to correct me if there are a lot of fantasy series from then that did center around someone who was more chaotic like Mat or a woman). Now it very well could be that the TV people are making it so all five are the dragon or something. 

This. I have been dreading confirmation that Rand of the cheekbones, brooding, and special red hair would turn out to be The Dragon Reborn since Episode 1.  I'm still hoping for a swerve, but honestly, everyone else is so much cooler that Rand (I literally almost typed "Bland" instead of Rand) that it also feels like he has no real purpose if he isn't at least the most Dragon Reborn-ist of the five. 

I do think it is more interesting if it turns out that they are all a part of The Dragon and, while powerful apart require working together (and without any conscious thought or intent, I'm now picturing Voltron - Go Voltron Force!).  This would mean they would need Mat back and have to overcome the darkness that Moraine believes he is vulnerable to.   

Also, boring white male protagonist fatigue aside, Holy Shit he's an petulant little brat when it comes to Egwene.

Moving on, I find this show generally enjoyable.  And I like pretty much everyone not Rand. (I don't hate Rand. I just don't find him interesting.)  Lan and Nynaeve are great and I've liked the story.   I'm glad they finally got there.   And Holy Shitballs that opening fight was fun. 

 

[ursula]

On 12/19/2021 at 12:11 PM, phoenics said:

That was the first inkling I got that there was something going on but after Perrin accidentally kills Laila (felt so bad for him) I forgot about it and was mostly watching Perrin and willing him not to fall into a pit of despair. 

I think from @Chicago Redshirt's blow by blow that there were subtle hints in the Pilot. The problem is that Perrin and Egwene have been travelling together, and in viewing terms, scene-paired for several episodes this season and those hints - which should have been there - were not. The only impression I got from Perrin was that he was suffering from PTSD from accidentally killing his wife. At a time, I thought his arc would be about him abandoning the Quest to join the Leaf people. And it's not like there weren't opportunities to show... something. But we had the Leaf Chief's grandson showing interest in Egwene, and no reaction from Perrin. At least nothing that signalled unrequited feelings to the viewer.

And Nynaeve's declaration that P and R were fighting over her like a piece of meat? Sorry, even with the Pilot's subtle clues, I don't see that. Rand's insecurities were based on her going after a higher calling. He was worried about her leaving him to be a nun, not to be some other guy's sidechick. Perrin never acted territorial around E - again Leaf boy flirting went unremarked by him. Rand's biggest conflict was with Dagger guy. Now if the show wanted us to believe that part of his resentment/bitterness was also unrequited feelings for his friend's girlfriend (and it would fit his character to fall for someone unattainable), I could easily believe that. 

If the love triangle is a book artefact, then I hope it serves some purpose down the line. Otherwise, they could have excised it out of the adaptation and the show would have been stronger for it. 

[Danny Franks]

I don't even really think it's a love triangle. It was a bunch of insecure BS, spun up by Machin Shin, which is probably based on old feelings.

I can easily see there being a time when Perrin and Rand competed over Egwene, as younger teens, and Nynaeve remembers it and thinks Perrin still holds a torch for her. But everyone moved on - Rand and Egwene got together, Perrin got with Laila - and pretty much forgot it.

Perrin's marriage seems to have had problems, but we don't yet know what they were, or why. There are hints that Perrin has some kind of attraction/soft spot for Egwene, but that seems fairly unsurprising to me, when there probably aren't that many people in their age group in that small village and the surrounding farms. I also don't think it's going anywhere from here. Rand and Egwene both dismissed it after they calmed down, and Perrin just looked sheepish and a bit uncomfortable the next morning. 

For me, the scene was there to serve several reasons, none of which were about setting up a love triangle -

To show Rand's insecurity about his place in Egwene's life and push them to renew their commitment to one another (which also then strengthens Rand's resolve to keep her safe).

To show Perrin's struggle with anger and set up a fear that he may lose his temper and really do some damage. Is this down to his wolf connection, or has it always been in him? He certainly flew into a rage when he was killing that Trolloc.

To show that Nynaeve isn't as smart and all-knowing as she thinks she is. She put her foot in it and upset all three of them.

[SueB]

12 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

It was a bunch of insecure BS, spun up by Machin Shin….

I’m going to rename all my inner demons ‘Machin Shin’!  
 

And I agree with you about it being an awkward scene.  Nynaeve’s statement about ‘fighting’ didn’t really land for me (because Rand wasn’t fighting Perrin for Egwene).  I’m not denying the potential Perrin interest (although I think it’s old news) but it’s hard for two to be fighting when one isn’t even aware. 
 

A better line (IMO) would have been for her to yell at Rand about constant sniping at Egwene about their relationship when ‘Are we all going to die tomorrow’ seems like a bigger concern.  
 

But they were going for some specific outcomes so… mkay. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I just don't like that it relegated Perrin's wife to a consolation prize, seemingly. And it's not really Rand to be pissy to his friends. 

'Knock it off Ny, we were kids then and that was ages ago.' That's all that scene needed. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

People's mileage will vary, but I do think that Perrin did have some level of reaction at Leaf Lad's flirting with Egwene. Whether it was supposed to be,"Yeah right" or "I got next" or just in my mind, I'm not sure. 

In a perfect world, Laila would be a fully fleshed out character whose death would have hit us harder than it did. But no matter how much you slice it, she was fridged for Perrin's development. Whether that development is simply "I need to get over the fact that I accidentally killed her and be the best wolf-channeling badass I can be" or "I need to get over the fact that I just settled for Laila when I really wanted Egwene and I accidentally killed Laila and have guilty feelings about wanting to get with Egwene in order to be the best wolf-channeling badass I can be" is not really crucial. 

[Anduin]

Okay, Rand's mother is Tigrane Mantear. Is that tear as in cry, or rip? Judging by her actions, I have to guess it's the second. She really ripped those soldiers apart.

[paigow]

8 hours ago, Anduin said:

Okay, Rand's mother is Tigrane Mantear. Is that tear as in cry, or rip? 

In a world where boys are named after things you wipe your feet on... maybe tear is a 2 syllable word... e.g. TEEE AHHRRR

[Humbugged]

10 hours ago, Anduin said:

Okay, Rand's mother is Tigrane Mantear. Is that tear as in cry, or rip? Judging by her actions, I have to guess it's the second. She really ripped those soldiers apart.

Named after King Arthur's mother Igraine and grandmother of Gawain and Morded

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, Humbugged said:

Named after King Arthur's mother Igraine and grandmother of Gawain and Morded

Igraine is nothing like either version of tear.

[DearEvette]

On 12/18/2021 at 12:18 PM, Haleth said:

I am enjoying the show but sheesh, is there anything that wasn’t stolen from Tolkien?  

This is deliberate but he pivots away from that fairly quickly.  There is a very long and detailed interview RJ did not to long before he died where he addressed that where he stated he 

Quote

..intentionally started the series as very Tolkienesque, so that readers would feel like they already knew the land somewhat. Then [he] deliberately deviated from Tolkien so the readers would not know what to expect.

Regarding the name Tigraine --  the names of many of the characters out of the gate are immediately recognizable and being very much a take on Arthurian legend character names: Nynaeve, Nim, Egwene al'Vere, Moraine, Tar Valon, Amyrlin Seat, Lan, Tigraine etc.

[DoctorAtomic]

That's kind of the point with the names within the concept of the Wheel. Stories become legend and legend fades to myth as the Wheel turns. 

This account that we're watching predates Arthur as much as our draws on it. 

[Humbugged]

13 hours ago, Anduin said:

Igraine is nothing like either version of tear.

Her name is nothing to do with Tear

[Anduin]

8 hours ago, Humbugged said:

Her name is nothing to do with Tear

I am asking about the pronunciation of tear in Mantear. Is it pronounced tear like rip, or tear like cry? Surely Jordan must have clarified that sometime.

[Danny Franks]

31 minutes ago, Anduin said:

I am asking about the pronunciation of tear in Mantear. Is it pronounced tear like rip, or tear like cry? Surely Jordan must have clarified that sometime.

It's Man-TEAR, pronounced as in crying tears. RJ clarified every pronunciation in the series, in the book glossaries. It hasn't stopped thousands of readers thinking their own, personal pronunciations were canon, though (for example, I've always pronounced it Ti-GRAINE, but it should apparently be TEE-graine).

[Humbugged]

28 minutes ago, Anduin said:

I am asking about the pronunciation of tear in Mantear. Is it pronounced tear like rip, or tear like cry? Surely Jordan must have clarified that sometime.

Its just Man-tear no meaning just one the many surnames he made for it like others have said it is all about the first names

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, Humbugged said:

Its just Man-tear no meaning just one the many surnames he made for it like others have said it is all about the first names

So it's tear like rip?

Edited December 24, 2021 by Anduin

[GustavMahler]

Awful CGI but they learned from GoT and kept things murky and dark. Overalll I give the season a 6.5...nothing really grabbed my long term interest so I do not have any can't wait vibes for season  two..... 

[Humbugged]

2 hours ago, Anduin said:

So it's tear like rip?

Crying

[Anduin]

5 hours ago, Humbugged said:

Crying

Thank you. That's the answer I wanted to start with.

[Blue Plastic]

As others noted, I thought Machin Shin lied, so not sure why Rand or Moiraine would take that as the final word regarding the Dragon Reborn.  I was kind of expecting the show to give the revelation of the Dragon Reborn's identity a little more onscreen drama, like with Nynaeve's group healing, strongest-female-channeler-in-ages moment.

In the Ways, Egwene said she didn't mean to channel, but now I'm taking it that it was actually Rand who accidentally channeled at that point?

Count me as one of the ones who never really got much of a vibe from Perrin supposedly carrying a torch for Egwene.  I definitely picked up on the idea that Perrin had marriage troubles, but his wife was onscreen too briefly for me to give much thought to it other than it probably made Perrin feel even more guilty about accidentally killing her.  But honestly, just accidentally killing her would make anyone feel bad enough.

Min looked older than I imagined her being, but I liked the way her visions looked.  Way cooler than I imagined when reading the books.

[Ottis]

The opening fight with the pregnant lady was the first thing in this show since it debuted that I felt was really excellent and GoT quality. I take it she was one of the red-headed warriors? 

”The Ways” are, like most things on this show, so dark and limited that they are little more than a tiny set. And then there is talk and talk and talk, including CW-quality debate on who really likes who and when.

So much of this episode was about characters expressing feelings for each other that should already be understood, given their history, or which don’t actually mean anything in the context of the story. Also, I find Egwene hugely annoying. Something about the actress I think. I cannot fathom why Rand likes her, she doesn’t seem like the kind of person who would create a love triangle. 

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Ottis

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

The opening fight with the pregnant lady was the first thing in this show since it debuted that I felt was really excellent and GoT quality. I take it she was one of the red-headed warriors? 

”The Ways” are, like most things on this show, so dark and limited that they are little more than a tiny set. And then there is talk and talk and talk, including CW-quality debate on who really likes who and when.

So much of this episode was about characters expressing feelings for each other that should already be understood, given their history, or which don’t actually mean anything in the context of the story. Also, I find Egwene hugely annoying. Something about the actress I think. I cannot fathom why Rand likes her, she doesn’t seem like the kind of person who would create a love triangle. 

 

Maybe I'm just parochial, a sucker for a pretty face, or probably both, but I think she's my favourite. Also, considering the treatment of indigenous Australians 1788 - present, it's good to see one doing well.

[MrWhyt]

On 12/18/2021 at 3:27 AM, paigow said:

The one that did no damage to Dickhead Inquisitor???

that was a feint, a misdirection, a ruse.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 12/29/2021 at 6:05 AM, Ottis said:

Also, I find Egwene hugely annoying. Something about the actress I think. I cannot fathom why Rand likes her, she doesn’t seem like the kind of person who would create a love triangle. 

The show established that Rand has had a childhood crush on Egwene so that plus she's attractive probably go a long way to why Rand loves her. The show hasn't really done much to establish who Egwene is besides "somewhat ambitious for a small-town girl," "attractive," "in love with Rand but maybe not as much as he would like her to be." But for Rand, that sort of generic kind and sweet might also work.

I don't understand what "the type of person who would create a love triangle" means in this context. It's not as though people intend to create a love triangle in many cases. They just are. More than one person finds a third person attractive, or the same person is torn between two people. And I'm not sure if there's some sort of traits that people who find themselves in love triangles have in common.

Anyway, so far the show seems to be setting up the notion that both Rand and Perrin like/love Egwene. So far the show hasn't given any indication that Egwene had any romantic feelings for Perrin, or even that she knew about the romantic feelings Perrin might have had for her. (Then again, people did not feel that the show established Perrin had romantic feelings for Egwene, so maybe I missed it.)

[Ottis]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I don't understand what "the type of person who would create a love triangle" means in this context.

For me, it means that it is difficult to understand what one person sees in her, much less two. 

[Danny Franks]

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The show established that Rand has had a childhood crush on Egwene so that plus she's attractive probably go a long way to why Rand loves her. The show hasn't really done much to establish who Egwene is besides "somewhat ambitious for a small-town girl," "attractive," "in love with Rand but maybe not as much as he would like her to be." But for Rand, that sort of generic kind and sweet might also work.

I don't understand what "the type of person who would create a love triangle" means in this context. It's not as though people intend to create a love triangle in many cases. They just are. More than one person finds a third person attractive, or the same person is torn between two people. And I'm not sure if there's some sort of traits that people who find themselves in love triangles have in common.

Anyway, so far the show seems to be setting up the notion that both Rand and Perrin like/love Egwene. So far the show hasn't given any indication that Egwene had any romantic feelings for Perrin, or even that she knew about the romantic feelings Perrin might have had for her. (Then again, people did not feel that the show established Perrin had romantic feelings for Egwene, so maybe I missed it.)

In a small village like that, 'attractive and she likes me back' may be enough to envisage a life of happiness, children and sheep farming. It's not like any of them had particularly broad horizons, but Rand, in particular, was shown to have very humble ideas of what happiness would be for him. Egwene is the ambitious one and she just wants to follow in the footsteps of the village Wisdom.

But now they've left home, they're out in the big, wide world and suddenly they find that things aren't as simple as they always thought. Egwene could be an Aes Sedai, Rand is... well, he doesn't really know what it means to be what he is. I think it's a fun analogue of kids who grow up together and think they're always going to be together, then they go off to college and suddenly realise there's a lot more out there that they could have, if they wanted. Is their relationship strong enough to withstand all those other temptations and distractions or will they drift apart like so many high school sweetheart couples do?

I don't think there has been any indication that Egwene sees Perrin as anything other than a friend, and I don't expect it to amount to anything. Because, whether he had feelings for her or not, he's so screwed up by what happened to his wife that he's unlikely to even think about romance for a long time.

[cherrypj]

On 12/25/2021 at 7:11 PM, Blue Plastic said:

As others noted, I thought Machin Shin lied, so not sure why Rand or Moiraine would take that as the final word regarding the Dragon Reborn.  I was kind of expecting the show to give the revelation of the Dragon Reborn's identity a little more onscreen drama, like with Nynaeve's group healing, strongest-female-channeler-in-ages moment.

Not so much as "lied," but "told you your greatest fear." No one wants to be the Dragon Reborn: they're supposed to break the world.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 12/23/2021 at 7:41 AM, Humbugged said:

Named after King Arthur's mother Igraine and grandmother of Gawain and Morded

Yes, several characters and places have Arthurian-derived names:

Moiraine Damodred = Morgan/Morgana

al'Lan Mandragoran = Lancelot

Nynaeve al'Meara = Nivaine/Nimue

Egwene al'Vere = Guinevere

Elayne Trakand = Elaine

Thom Merrilin = Merlin

Morgase Trakand = Morgause

Gawyn Trakand = Gawain

Spoiler

Galad Trakand = Galahad (we know from casting spoilers that Elayne's brother Galad will be in Season 3, but unlike her other brother Gawyn he hasn't been mentioned in dialogue yet)

Artur Paendrag Tanreall, known as Artur Hawkwing = Arthur Pendragon

Tar Avalon = Avalon

Caemlyn = Camlann

Edited January 24 by Noneofyourbusiness

[DoctorAtomic]

The origins of the wheel of time book has a lot of that information, though I wouldn't recommend buying it. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

15 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

The origins of the wheel of time book has a lot of that information, though I wouldn't recommend buying it. 

Oh, why not? (I don't have it)