S04.E05: The Examples

[paigow]

AIRING DEC 16, 2021

Burnham and Book rush to evacuate a group of settlers, as one of the Federation's most brilliant scientists arrives aboard the USS Discovery to do research with Saru and Stamets.

[paigow]

Theory: The DMA was sent to wipe out all planets with a Broadway theme... Today Les Mis, tomorrow A Chorus Line

[mrspidey]

So they canonized the Risian Caracals from Star Trek Online and also had Vance mention "Survivors of the Iconian race", which STO depicted as well. Are they giving a nod to the game's Iconian War arc?

[Glade]

It's so fitting that the U.S.S. Janeway showed up at the head of the episode, because the way Captain Burnham dressed down the ex-magistrate with such brutal eloquence was SO a classic Janeway move! I loved it!  I hope that the federation in the 32nd century is more just then the one which sentenced Burnham to life imprisonment, which would have been an obscene waste of her talent and potential with no room for redemption or rehabilitation.   Rhys getting his chance to shine was also really sweet. This entire episode was brilliant and the ending was really emotionally powerful.

[PurpleFishHead]

This show is simultaneously boring on a plot level and watchable on a character level.  

[thuganomics85]

Hey, Jet's back!  Happy to see her again, but I definitely noticed that they were being extra careful with social distancing for Tig Notaro, as I noticed that the majority of her scenes were shot with only her on camera, and she only shared it once with Anthony Rapp.  Still, glad they found a way to bring her back and make her feel safe.  Also, congrats on getting into the opening credits with the special "with" billing!

Looks like there really are folks out there more arrogant than Stamets!  Tarka certainly seems brilliant, but also a major pain in the ass.  Certainly has no issues putting the entire ship at risk in order to gain new scientific discoveries.  Suspect there will be a lot more of them: especially with Booker noticing that weird mark on his neck.  Wasn't sure if that was suppose to reference something we already know or not.  Always great seeing Shawn Doyle at least.

Michael and Booker's "mission of the week" was decent and probably the most I've liked Michael so far this season.  Certainly helped that Michael Greyeyes was able to do a lot with his scenes as Felix.

Culber seems to be feeling the pressure as the ship's therapist now, but we'll see if Dr. David Cronenberg's "harsh truth" will be enough for him to finally take a break!

Zora/the ship's computer developing the ability to react to others emotions has to come into play later on, right?

[Stardancer Supreme]

My quibbles this week: There was so much talking in this episode!  I will allow Rhys his monologue; I find him so attractive.  But as I was watching Michael and Book and the Examples leisurely chit chatting while the DMA was hurtling towards them, I was waving my hands in the universal "Hurry Up!" motion.  These folk were acting like they had all the time in the world!

So there is someone whose arrogance exceeds Stamets.  Amazing.  I wonder what the deal is with him. 

I loves Michael, I really do.  However, this "Captain Burnham can solve all problems" thing is getting old.  I want her to not have the answers and solutions every once in a while.

[sugarbaker design]

So many questions!

Who or what is Zora?  The knowledge from the Sphere?  The ship's computer?

What did the mark on the back of the neck of Tarka signify?

I'm glad we got a break from the awful Sci-Fi, YA, non-binary romance that is Adira and their boo.

[Stardancer Supreme]

22 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

So many questions!

Who or what is Zora?  The knowledge from the Sphere?  The ship's computer?

The Sphere Data merged with Discovery season 2, I think?  Anyway, this new consciousness named itself Zora.  I felt Michael being simultaneously curious and creeped out to find out that Zora now has emotions and feelings!  We will see if that will cause issues later on...

Edited December 17, 2021 by Stardancer Supreme

[DrBriCa]

5 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

6 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

So many questions!

Who or what is Zora?  The knowledge from the Sphere?  The ship's computer?

The Sphere Data merged with Discovery season 2, I think?  Anyway, this new consciousness named itself Zora.  I felt Michael being simultaneously curious and creeped out to find out that Zora now has emotions and feelings!  We will see if that will cause issues later on...

Yeah, the Sphere Data merged with Discovery in Season 2, which has been allowing it to grow into sentience. Section 31's fear of how that AI sentience would impact the galaxy is what led them to moving Discovery into the distant future. The Short Trek episode "Calypso" also showed an abandoned Discovery even farther into the future with a fully sentient Zora capable of developing romantic feelings.

6 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

What did the mark on the back of the neck of Tarka signify?

Made me wonder if it connected somehow to those parasites from TNG's "Conspiracy."

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Culber seems to be feeling the pressure as the ship's therapist now, but we'll see if Dr. David Cronenberg's "harsh truth" will be enough for him to finally take a break!

I liked them revisiting this major point for Culber's arc, as last season they seemed to sweep it under the rug in favor of fast-tracking the family-building with Adira.

 

When they were building the mini-DMA on the ship, I wondered at times if maybe they themselves somehow accidentally cause the big DMA, sort of like in "All Good Things" where anomaly grows bigger into Picard's past from actions they start to undertake in the alternate future. It would be interesting if each time they test a mini-DMA, a huge one is actually appearing elsewhere and elsewhen....

[DavidJSnyder]

9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Hey, Jet's back!  Happy to see her again, but I definitely noticed that they were being extra careful with social distancing for Tig Notaro, as I noticed that the majority of her scenes were shot with only her on camera, and she only shared it once with Anthony Rapp.  Still, glad they found a way to bring her back and make her feel safe. 

I don’t think it was social distancing so much as all the Reno bits were shot at a different time.

[MissLucas]

2 hours ago, DrBriCa said:

Made me wonder if it connected somehow to those parasites from TNG's "Conspiracy."

Eww, I hope not. I hate space bugs!

I wondered how long Culber could keep up all that counselling in addition to his daytime job. That was a lot of harsh truth but also necessary. The Stamets-Culber relationship is one of the best things about this show. The rescue mission went as I expected (except Commander Rhys not pulling a Red Shirt). I wonder if the rift it created between Book and Burnham will come up again. The character dynamics were certainly intriguing. Nice to see Jet again. And Stamets having to deal with someone who outranks him on the arrogance-meter was fun . Of course Tarka is shifty but it seems he's already made onto Book's watch list.

Seeing Burnham freaking out a bit inwardly while Zora started talking about having emotions was my favorite scene.

Edited December 17, 2021 by MissLucas

[marinw]

Adira and Gray had the week off. Nice to see Jet.

I find the idea of "The Examples" fascinating. And although Michael can be a lot sometimes (or most of the time), I loved her dressing down of Asteriod Government guy, pointing out that now he is a refugee.

Rhys story seemed random, but it's nice for him to do something. Communications guy looks different, is it another actor or have we just not seem him in awhile?

I cheered for Suru when he shut down the expierement before the ship was destroyed. There are different kinds of courage.

Edited December 17, 2021 by marinw

[DavidJSnyder]

3 hours ago, marinw said:

Communications guy looks different, is it another actor or have we just not seem him in awhile?

Communications in this episode was Lt. Christopher, a character introduced in the first episode of the season as filling in while Bryce who we usually see at that station was away consulting.

Bryce was back at station in episode 2. (He was the one who knew about kite surfing), so he’s not gone gone, even though I know the actor is another show and may have availability issues. But they also had other characters at Detmer and Oyo’s usual stations too.

just as I had pretty much learned the regular bridges crews names. 

[marinw]

26 minutes ago, DavidJSnyder said:

Communications in this episode was Lt. Christopher, a character introduced in the first episode of the season as filling in while Bryce who we usually see at that station was away consulting.

As I've said before, I do like that the communiations officers tend to be male, a nice, subtle subversion of traditional gender roles.

An artificial star is a neat idea, if that's what the thing is.

[paigow]

1 hour ago, marinw said:

As I've said before, I do like that the communiations officers tend to be male, a nice, subtle subversion of traditional gender roles.

TNG!Worf got the job after Tasha got slimed...until he left for DS9

[dwmarch]

1 hour ago, DavidJSnyder said:

Communications in this episode was Lt. Christopher, a character introduced in the first episode of the season as filling in while Bryce who we usually see at that station was away consulting.

Bryce was back at station in episode 2. (He was the one who knew about kite surfing), so he’s not gone gone, even though I know the actor is another show and may have availability issues. But they also had other characters at Detmer and Oyo’s usual stations too.

just as I had pretty much learned the regular bridges crews names. 

I wonder if we will get an episode highlighting some adventure Detmer and Owo were on while this crisis was happening or if it was just a different duty shift so they weren't actually supposed to be there. TNG and the other shows have this weird thing where all the crises happen during alpha shift, when all the main characters are at their stations.

[Maverick]

By the TNG era there communication-specific officers.  The hailing frequencies job was assigned to the tactical officer for.... reasons.  

 However, a male communications officer dates back 40 years.   In The Search for Spock, the Grissom has a male comm officer. 

[catsitter]

It was lovely to see a planet where family trees (my hobby!) were so all-important, though sad that the planet is no more.  I would have thought that the family tree could have been recreated easily enough for the surviving daughter, though.

[paigow]

4 hours ago, Maverick said:

In The Search for Spock, the Grissom has a male comm officer. 

Probably the last one for a while... because... BOOM! 

[DrScottie]

8 hours ago, Maverick said:

By the TNG era there communication-specific officers.  The hailing frequencies job was assigned to the tactical officer for.... reasons. 

Sometimes they'd ask Data to open a channel and he was the chief operations and science officer. 

Of course, the best time to do a study that creates a miniature wormhole that takes most of the available power of the ship is during the middle of a rescue operation. 

I know Tarka considers himself to be so much above everyone else on Risa, but why does it seem like he is a kind of guy who couldn't get jamaharon with a horga'hn and 10 bars of gold-pressed latinum? 

5 hours ago, catsitter said:

It was lovely to see a planet where family trees (my hobby!) were so all-important, though sad that the planet is no more.  I would have thought that the family tree could have been recreated easily enough for the surviving daughter, though.

Yeah, genealogy is quite important to my father's side of the family too. He has a distant cousin that tracked our lineage back to a close descendant of Jacques Cartier. As for that orb, I wonder if Ancestry.com should start selling interactive holographic family trees.

[DrBriCa]

18 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I wondered how long Culber could keep up all that counselling in addition to his daytime job. That was a lot of harsh truth but also necessary. The Stamets-Culber relationship is one of the best things about this show.

It's kinda surprising that they haven't assigned a counselor to the ship at this point, considering the practice seemed to be common by the 24th century, especially given the adaptations the entire crew have had to experience from shifting so far into the future. Heck, with the size of Culber's gigantic office, they could easily halve it for a full-time counselor! (His office and the ready room certainly are huge by 23rd century ship standards!) I do enjoy his relationship with Stamets.

This episode and the last made me wonder what Cronenberg's character's role actually is. Last season, he seemed more like a forensic psychologist working with Federation security to assess Georgiou, but then last week he clearly had an administrative position with Starfleet Academy. Now this week, he needed to sign off to see patients... I mean, sure, in the real world, it is feasible for a doctorate-level psychologist to be a grad school/residency professor (and even administrator) as well as a consultant and still have a few personal clients on the side, but that's certainly a lot of hats to wear over the course of just 4 episodes in 2 seasons!

12 hours ago, dwmarch said:

I wonder if we will get an episode highlighting some adventure Detmer and Owo were on while this crisis was happening

I would love an episode focusing on the two of them kicking ass on some away mission!

[Affogato]

12 hours ago, catsitter said:

It was lovely to see a planet where family trees (my hobby!) were so all-important, though sad that the planet is no more.  I would have thought that the family tree could have been recreated easily enough for the surviving daughter, though.

I could have been a scan of dna or memories, not just a picture. Tradition or religion could indicate only one copy or maybe one copy per person but she was an only child and young so it was still his (the father’s) copy. 
 

But if they caught and incarcerated the guy why didn’t they find the family tree ball and return it to her? If he felt so guilty why didn’t he ask them to do it?

Edited December 18, 2021 by Affogato

[paigow]

1 minute ago, Affogato said:

If he felt so guilty why didn’t he ask them to do it?

He got life for a different misdemeanor, so he never confessed to murder. Otherwise, he would have lost his Valjean / advocacy cred.

[Starchild]

 

21 hours ago, catsitter said:

It was lovely to see a planet where family trees (my hobby!) were so all-important, though sad that the planet is no more.  I would have thought that the family tree could have been recreated easily enough for the surviving daughter, though.

It seemed to me that each new addition could only be done by the person scanning themselves in. Since the older generations are gone it couldn't be recreated.

 

16 hours ago, DrScottie said:

Of course, the best time to do a study that creates a miniature wormhole that takes most of the available power of the ship is during the middle of a rescue operation. 

Right? I was wondering what the urgency was. They said they could contain it if they could access the transporter power. So just wait a few hours for the rescue to finish and then get all the data you need. Even if they thought they could get information then and there that would somehow save the current people from losing their home, now that it's all over just start again and get the info you need now. No reason it could only be done once.

[Primal Slayer]

Seriously...why isnt Book part of Starfleet yet? And Burnams #1? He is by her side for every mission as opposed to the people she works with officially.

[paigow]

2 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Seriously...why isnt Book part of Starfleet yet? And Burnams #1? He is by her side for every mission as opposed to the people she works with officially.

Book provides the facade of Fed / Starfleet cooperation with non aligned individuals. 

[marinw]

A weird thing about the last two seasons of Discovery is how little society seems to have changed since the 23rd and 31st Centuries. I know different things change at different rates but society seems to be about the same in terms of mlitary ranks, law, education, and so forth.

Edited December 20, 2021 by marinw

[AnimeMania]

The family orb tree really bothered me. Why was she added down near the bottom, near the trunk of the tree? In a normal tree you are added to the top as one of the branches. Why did the tree have so many branches and hardly any pictures connected with those branches? What happens if a family has more than one child, which one gets the family orb. Let's say that all families only have one child, then each child would get two orbs, one from the mother and one from the father, but as each generation happens the number of orbs that you pass down would increase exponentially. It would have made more sense if the person's tombstone contained the orb and people would go to the grave site and add their ancestry there and when a person is born, they have a family orb made just for them. Then the prisoner could have been upset because the man was buried without displaying his ancestry which might have caused him some dishonor. Although returning the family orb wouldn't have been such a big deal because his tombstone already 'sploded so they couldn't attach the orb to it.

Why make a super fancy secure prison with lots of defenses and guards for 6 people, why not just kill the prisoners and tell people they are still in there, they could save a lot of effort and money. Unless, they have a prisoner channel so that people can watch the prisoners on TV, so that they won't be tempted to end up like them.

[DrScottie]

On 12/18/2021 at 8:46 PM, paigow said:

Book provides the facade of Fed / Starfleet cooperation with non aligned individuals. 

There's also the layer of plausible deniability for the Federation in case things don't go well. 

[tennisgurl]

Hi Jet, great seeing you again!  I was wondering where she's been this season, nice to catch up. This was a fun episode, the mission of the week was pretty good and I always think Michael is at her best when her righteous indignation is pointed at someone who really deserves it. Janeaway would certainly approve. The guest cast was solid too, the guy playing Felix really make the most of his time. 

I hate to say it, but I am happy to have a break from Adira and Gray. I really don't dislike them, but I hope they get a better story moving forward, especially without Tilly around, we're running a bit low on major characters who can bring the fun. Not surprising that Culber is feeling the pressure being both a medical officer and the ships therapist, while also still going through a lot on his own. Good thing we have Dr. Cronenberg, who really is being helpful all over the place lately, dropping truth bombs left and right.

Ancestry.com would apparently make a killing in the future. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by tennisgurl

[Ottis]

Wait, what? It just now occurred to the Discovery team that the DMA could have been created? We learned in episode 2 that it wasn’t natural, which means it was either sentient with its own needs, or it was being controlled by someone with his/her/their own motivation. Glad they finally arrived at the obvious.

Not sure accepting an away team volunteer just because they volunteered makes sense. 

Really don’t care for the “hurt feelings, boo-hoo” plot with scientists. Bring me some Vulcans.

Also not a fan of moral outrage over a system that is obviously immoral. Isn’t the Emerald whatever a bunch of criminals? Not sure I would expect reason in its justice system.

[marinw]

One thing about Discovery I do like is that it is looking at the diffrent ways crime and justice and handled. In the TNG/Voy/DS9 era there were mentions of prisons, but we got the impression that at least in the Federation these were much more humane insitutions than our current 21C prisons. We saw Tom Paris serving out a sentence in a bucolic environment in the first episode of Voyager. All starships have brigs, but these are tempoary holding cells. (except that time Tom Paris spent thirty days in one on Janeway's orders).

44 minutes ago, Ottis said:

Also not a fan of moral outrage over a system that is obviously immoral.

Agreed. I thought the TNG episode "the Hunted" handled this issue more effectively. 

Is the Prime Directive still a thing in the 31st C? Although that directive prably doesn't apply here.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Those bomb-throwing robot beetles were cool.

Stamets was having a blast with his new cocky little science nerd buddy Tarka. It's all fun and games until someone loses a planet, young man. 😉

Lol, Burnham went all "Boy, bye," on the magistrate of that planet that was just evacuated. Interesting point she made about refugees not expecting to bring all of their old culture with them as they resettle in new places. That planet's justice system was ridiculous.

Booker was like, "Now this might be a muthaeffer I can roll with" after Tarka got finished working him. He and Tarka are likely going to be even bigger trouble than Stamets and Tarka.

[Zonk]

Couldn't they have done that stupid experiment after they rescued the people and thus didn't have to conserve so much power? Or do it on a spacestation. Yes, you have an overarching time crunch, in that you never know where the anomaly will hit next, but you don't have an immediate time crunch. You can do that experiment right...

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

flying guillotines

That's what those things were! I couldn't come up with a word so I just called them bombs. Thanks for the clarification.

Quote

Am I the only one who got villain vibes from Tarka? I think he just tried to blow up the ship. But wait you say, he was on the ship! But everyone with a comm badge has a personal transporter so that might not have been a problem for him. The DMA can skip all over the galaxy as it pleases so he might be able to as well. In any case, his ability to build a perfectly accurate small scale replica of the thing that is haunting them right now makes him highly suspect to me.

Yeah, there's a theory afloat on the interwebs that he created the DMA and has keyed on the Discovery as the biggest threat to it.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Joimiaroxeu

[Chit Chat]

On 12/25/2021 at 3:38 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

 That planet's justice system was ridiculous.

As usual, I am really late to watching this season.  We just watched this episode and my main problem is that Burnham made her own snap judgment on the prisoners (one who turned out to have murdered someone.)  Every prisoner will tell you they're not guilty.   I think it was in the Shawshank Redemption when one of them laughed and said in response to Andy DuFrame proclaiming his innocence "yeah, we're all innocent!"   

My point is that it was her job to get them to her ship.  Being prisoners, they should go to the Brig.  From there they can get their hearing within the Federation.  Argh to her and Book with their moral outrage when they know nothing of the situation.  Just do the job you were sent to do, then let the Federation handle it from there.  Compassion is nice and all, but they knew nothing about those people.  Sorry, that just irritates me. 

On 12/22/2021 at 9:05 AM, Ottis said:

Really don’t care for the “hurt feelings, boo-hoo” plot with scientists. Bring me some Vulcans.

Mr. Chat and I just about fell asleep with all of the boo-hooing going on.  Get a grip people!!  We need less of "how are you feeling" to more action.  We should rename this Star Trek: Discover your Feelings.  

Edited January 12, 2022 by ChitChat

[millennium]

The Tarka and Felix actors stole the show, providing a glaring contrast between their acting skills and those of, say, Sonequa Martin Green or Doug Jones.

I guess Booker has evolved from Sad Booker to Angry Booker.   Yawn.   How does it enhance Burnham's credibility as a female commander to go off on missions with her non-Starfleet boyfriend?   Everybody has to know they're sleeping together.   If this crew has as many human foibles as the writers would have us believe, that little arrangement must be causing some resentment or loss of respect.   Even worse, Booker is openly questioning her command decisions during the away mission and she's not only putting up with it, she's explaining herself.   Isn't she putting the missions and lives at risk by bringing him along in the first place, since his mental state is obviously in question?

Edited February 13, 2022 by millennium

[Tachi Rocinante]

On 12/16/2021 at 10:59 PM, sugarbaker design said:

What did the mark on the back of the neck of Tarka signify?

He's from the Matrix, apparently. 😁