S18.E04: Week 4

[Lamb18]

Nate to Chris S: "Can I steal you for a minute?"

[dizzyd]

Idk, I liked Nayte till today but not feeling him today. He may not have meant to be cocky, but he has been not working hard for her as though he has it in the bag and doesn’t have to work for her. Also the name calling (weirdo, deeeb) unnecessary. 

[JenE4]

I had to remind myself this was a reality show and not a drama, otherwise I was expecting one of these guys to tumble over this railing. 

“I didn’t mean to bring you up.” Huh? How was retelling an entire conversation “accidental.”

Oh, no. “I got on my white horse and rescued Michelle from the castle she was stuck in.” Uh-oh. We got ourselves a “nice guy” here.

[SHD]

Chris S. has a real Michael Scott vibe going tonight.

[JenE4]

  On 11/10/2021 at 2:49 AM, SHD said:

Chris S. has a real Michael Scott vibe going tonight.

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Especially the way he is bragging about definitely getting a rose. Just like Michael Scott, with that kind of build up he’s certainly not getting one.

[DEL901]

I have trouble dealing with Nayte’s eyebrows. 

[dizzyd]

Oh no not Romeo! Wherefore art thou!

[SallyAlbright]

I love the guy with the beard (also named Chris?) describing Chris S. as "just...saying....stuff." He looked so baffled. 

  On 11/10/2021 at 2:57 AM, dizzyd said:

Oh no not Romeo! Wherefore art thou!

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Nooooooo! 

[Kiss my mutt]

Are you freaking kidding me? Must be the “Hunter” of the season. 

[Lamb18]

Both Vikings stadium and the Twins ballpark!

[ECM1231]

  On 11/10/2021 at 1:47 AM, JenE4 said:

Every time they show that traveling nurse recruiter, I wonder whether he’s a traveling-nurse recruiter or a traveling nurse-recruiter. Who travels: him or the nurses? I guess it makes more sense that he’s a traveling-nurse recruiter who recruits nurses to travel where needed rather than a traveling nurse-recruiter wherein he scours the countryside for nurses. Okay, I missed all of the teddy bear fights contemplating this.

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Refresh my memory. Which guy is this?

[GracieK]

I like Michelle much more than I usually like the leads but the seen stuff was annoying. I’m sure the producers pound it into their heads - yes we found her hook and the men triggered an insecurity we can exploit and question her about in every talking head so she looks and feels obsessive about it! 
I hate seeing men like Romeo go but Chris S. stay - he’s DEFINITELY Michael Scott vibes - he’s a little low key Eric from Billy Madison too.

[LennieBriscoe]

From the  "Broken Record" Dept:

IDK if I can watch any more episodes  before the Finale because  of Michelle's AWFUL (and affected) Vocal Fry! Like fingernails  on the proverbial  blackboard! 

How could any of these guys put up with that?!

Yep, that's  it. Fast-forwarding through the stuff that's post-40 minute spot. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by LennieBriscoe

[tinkerbell]

They put the guys in a team building, getting to know each other situation,  food, games, toys, and a fighting contest, and Michelle is mad that the guys weren't all about her.  Oh, hi Michelle, but COTTON CANDY!  POPCORN! GIANT TEDDY BEARS!

Were her eyebrows always so weird? They never bugged me before tonight.

[Katie111]

What a boring episode.  I like Michelle but she is starting to be a bit of a Debbie downer.  Every week it’s a new insecurity and it either derails the group date or the cocktail party.  She seems to have fun on the one on ones but doesn’t do well in the group settings. 

[Hip-to-be-Square]

  On 11/10/2021 at 4:25 AM, LennieBriscoe said:

From the  "Broken Record" Dept:

IDK if I can watch any more episodes  before the Finale because  of Michelle's AWFUL (and affected) Vocal Fry! Like fingernails  on the proverbial  blackboard! 

How could any of these guys put up with that?!

Yep, that's  it. Fast-forwarding through the stuff that's post-40 minute spot. 

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I can't stand the vocal fry!  Michelle's date with Rick was almost intolerable and difficult to even understand with all of their vocal fry- I had to fast forward big time.  Rick's voice is especially grating and sounds like a bloated frog sitting on a log.  

[JenE4]

  On 11/10/2021 at 3:25 AM, ECM1231 said:

Refresh my memory. Which guy is this?

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I think his name is Brandon—but not certain about that.

[nlkm9]

This seasons “ being seen” is last seasons “ showing up”. Barf.

[SassyCat]

I have to admit, that even though I like Michelle, I haven’t been watching this season. I watched the first episode to see the guys. A minute here and there in between when theres a commercial happening on the show I am watching, but thats it. The shenanigans that have been the main course of this show , I really have had enough of. Katie was the last one I allowed myself to be involved in and that was rough. So, I read here to hear the scoop. Maybe I will tune in during the last couple episodes. Maybe not. Lol

[Alexander Pope]

  On 11/10/2021 at 7:49 AM, Hip-to-be-Square said:

I can't stand the vocal fry!  Michelle's date with Rick was almost intolerable and difficult to even understand with all of their vocal fry- I had to fast forward big time.  Rick's voice is especially grating and sounds like a bloated frog sitting on a log.  

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I liked Michelle a lot less when at the end of her date with Rick, after he poured out his heart to her (it was almost too much), she thanked him for making her feel seen.  As if all of that trauma was about her.  When people are insecure about being "seen," and I completely agree that the producers are drumming that into her head, they also fail to see others.  Not a good look.

I also think that while Michelle is really intelligent, she speaks largely in cliches and platitudes so I am having a hard time getting to know her (In as much as you can get to know anyone on this show).  Maybe she is being a good girl and following the producer's script too closely when she speaks but I would like to see more spontaneity and maybe even a joke once in a while? 

[Hip-to-be-Square]

  On 11/10/2021 at 3:49 PM, Alexander Pope said:

I liked Michelle a lot less when at the end of her date with Rick, after he poured out his heart to her (it was almost too much), she thanked him for making her feel seen.  As if all of that trauma was about her.  When people are insecure about being "seen," and I completely agree that the producers are drumming that into her head, they also fail to see others.  Not a good look.

I also think that while Michelle is really intelligent, she speaks largely in cliches and platitudes so I am having a hard time getting to know her (In as much as you can get to know anyone on this show).  Maybe she is being a good girl and following the producer's script too closely when she speaks but I would like to see more spontaneity and maybe even a joke once in a while? 

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Great points!  I found it really unnerving too when Rick told her about his father's suicide and her reaction seemed muted and removed from the situation.  Producers and production assistants definitely wrote the wishes in the box knowing that they'd trigger painful memories and strong emotions.  Michelle speaks with a lot of hesitation and wants to be really deep at all times, but I think that she should be more off the cuff with these guys- every phrase of hers doesn't have to be an old school Myspace post about sadness and pain.  Most of these guys don't really strike me as emotionally intelligent, so she's expecting a lot from this particular group to read her mind and subtle body language cues of discomfort/rejection, when they're just trying to eat popcorn and mess around with teddy bears.  I think that Michelle would greatly benefit from therapy to unpack all of the feelings/experiences of isolation and rejection from her teen years- the validation from these men and the final rose choice can help her "feel seen", but it won't ultimately heal or remove years of pain and rejection that she felt growing up.  

[DEL901]

Rick told Michelle how his dad died and she said um hmm.    Most people would have reached over, covered his hand and expressed sympathy.  I know she is still wrestling with the guys on the last date having fun without her, but she’s a teacher.  She should be able to at least be able to pretend to show empathy.  

I wonder if these feelings about being seen had previously been buried and are now bubbling to the surface.  They need to be dealt with before she’s ready to be someone’s partner.  Most of the rest of the bachelorettes would have just demanded to be the centre of attention, but she regressed to being a hurt teenager.  I felt for her, but I also felt for the guys.   This show is generally light.  Even though she had articulated her pain growing up, I’m guessing they assumed it was in the past.  Sometimes you have to speak up and tell people what you need whether it is being seen or that you want to play Duck Duck Goose too.  

[Starlight925]

That teddy bear fight was vicious, and someone could have seriously been hurt.  Whacking someone across the head with the head of that huge teddy bear, while holding the body, could have produced a swing so violent it could have caused neck breakage.  Plus it was just so stupid.

While Michelle wanting to be "seen" is valid, she's doing the one relationship mistake:  making others pay for things that happened in her life, prior to them meeting her.  

Edited November 10, 2021 by Starlight925

[Alexander Pope]

  On 11/10/2021 at 5:16 PM, Starlight925 said:

That teddy bear fight was vicious, and someone could have seriously been hurt.  Whacking someone across the head with the head of that huge teddy bear, while holding the body, could have produced a swing so violent it could have caused neck breakage.  Plus it was just so stupid.

While Michelle wanting to be "seen" is valid, she's doing the one relationship mistake:  making others pay for things that happened in her life, prior to them meeting her.  

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I am wondering if the fact that her "brand" is that she is an athlete means that almost EVERY date has to be a testosterone-fueled competition?  The producers should be aware that when a bunch of bros get together to compete (even if teddy bears are involved), they are focused on beating each other, not on chatting with the "prize."  So when she told Nayte (I think?) that she was "not the prize at the end of this," I found it a bit disingenuous.

I loved the poetry date--it was still a competition (all the group dates are of course) but at least it wasn't violent.

[Stats Queen]

  On 11/10/2021 at 5:16 PM, Starlight925 said:

That teddy bear fight was vicious, and someone could have seriously been hurt.  Whacking someone across the head with the head of that huge teddy bear, while holding the body, could have produced a swing so violent it could have caused neck breakage.  Plus it was just so stupid.

While Michelle wanting to be "seen" is valid, she's doing the one relationship mistake:  making others pay for things that happened in her life, prior to them meeting her.  

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Also, what did the poor Teddy Bears do to warrant such treatment? 😜

[Recyclorette]

  On 11/10/2021 at 2:23 AM, JenE4 said:

Oh, jeez, Rick. Sooo not your fault!!

Falling in love?!? This man’s emotions are all over the place!

None of this sounds healthy.

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Yeah, this conversation had me wondering about Rick's mental health, too.  For all his quirks, my gut's telling me he's a decent guy.  I really hope he's in a good place and that a possible rejection doesn't do some real harm.

[Back Atcha]

  On 11/10/2021 at 5:16 PM, Starlight925 said:

While Michelle wanting to be "seen" is valid

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...producers are turning her into a one-trick pony.   Those group dates have all kinds of instructions/direction from producers.  That "slumber party" scene was completely producer-driven.  They were probably TOLD to just ignore Michelle and produce SPARKS for TV.  Then we can continue with our manufactured drama.

  On 11/10/2021 at 4:55 PM, DEL901 said:

I wonder if these feelings about being seen had previously been buried and are now bubbling to the surface.

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Again...producer-driven!

[Back Atcha]

  On 11/10/2021 at 4:25 AM, LennieBriscoe said:

IDK if I can watch any more episodes  before the Finale because  of Michelle's AWFUL (and affected) Vocal Fry! Like fingernails  on the proverbial  blackboard! 

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AND...if she's a fifth grade teacher, she needs to watch her grammar (mostly "he and I" where it should be "him and me.")  At least she hasn't said Nayte and I's relationship ... YET.

[Back Atcha]

  On 11/10/2021 at 4:27 AM, tinkerbell said:

Were her eyebrows always so weird? They never bugged me before tonight.

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I noticed them in one scene too...like they were painted on.

 

 

  On 11/10/2021 at 3:25 AM, ECM1231 said:

Refresh my memory. Which guy is this?

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Hilarious...I Googled him and this is an ACTUAL response.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Back Atcha

[Hip-to-be-Square]

  On 11/10/2021 at 5:57 PM, Back Atcha said:

AND...if she's a fifth grade teacher, she needs to watch her grammar (mostly "he and I" where it should be "him and me.")  At least she hasn't said Nayte and I's relationship ... YET.

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I caught that too!!  Such a pet-peeve of mine and I notice those mistakes a lot on 90 Day Fiancé- but I work hard to overlook them since that franchise is truly a trash TV masterpiece 🙌!  Speaking of Michelle, I'm convinced that the children shown multiple times to be her students are really child actors hired through casting agencies. 

[GracieK]

I agree with those who think Michelle is very measured in her responses.. she's also the type of listener that doesn't give a lot of cues that she's engaged, but rather lets the speaker finish before interjecting.  I think both of these qualities are conditioned from being a teacher.  I also think that because she is a teacher and at least for now says she wants to return to teaching, she has to be careful about what she says, how she reacts and behaves, and how she says things.  I'm actually surprised there is so much kissing going on in light of that, but it's nice that it hasn't been hard core porn level make-outs like Hannah B and Katie. 

I was surprised she didn't give more words of support toward Rick, unless it wasn't shown - I feel terrible for him and what he carries with him.  But honestly, if that were me, it would be a huge red flag - the way he still blames himself and carries so much guilt.  I understand why, but it would make me fearful that he hasn't worked through that enough with a professional and that his trauma could cause him to be co-dependent and become overly attached too soon.  I thought maybe that was why Michelle held back, but she seemed to be giving him a ton of romantic validation outside of that.  

[JenE4]

  On 11/10/2021 at 6:02 PM, Back Atcha said:

I noticed them in one scene too...like they were painted on.

 

 

Hilarious...I Googled him and this is an ACTUAL response.

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But is he a traveling nurse-recruiter or a traveling-nurse recruiter?! 😂

  On 11/10/2021 at 5:52 PM, Back Atcha said:

...producers are turning her into a one-trick pony.   Those group dates have all kinds of instructions/direction from producers.  That "slumber party" scene was completely producer-driven.  They were probably TOLD to just ignore Michelle and produce SPARKS for TV.  Then we can continue with our manufactured drama.

Again...producer-driven!

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I don’t know. I mean of course the producers rile things up, but do you really think they would say, “Everyone ignore Michelle!” I can see them getting in someone’s ear *cough* Chris S *cough* that they should be the one to bring up a specific topic of conversation, but I can’t imagine they would say, “No one talk to the lead of the show!” in the hopes that it would bring out her inner child issues. That being said, it was absolutely hilarious when they were going to play Duck, Duck, Goose, and someone’s like, “Hey, should we get Michelle?” And someone else (maybe Olu?) was like, “No, she can join later!” I mean I guess the assumption was that they thought Michelle was “pulled for a chat” and they could entertain themselves until she came back and could join in any round, but it came off as: Duck, Duck, Goose can wait for no man! 😆

[tennisgurl]

I really like Michelle, but it does seem like she has a whole lot of unprocessed baggage. She really felt like a nervous teenager hoping to be asked to dance at prom during the sleepover. You would think that she would deliberately try to get out there more to get involved in the guys fun, but she is apparently still dealing with a lot of insecurity. She also sometimes feels like she is nervous in front of the camera and isn't super reactive when talking to other people. Especially when Rick told that terribly tragic and traumatic story about his dad, she hardly seemed to react beyond giving a stock "I cant even imagine" response. She can be really fun and charming when in a controlled setting, but when anything tugged at her insecurities or makes her uncomfortable, she really crumbles. 

I really hope that Rick has seen someone professional to talk about everything that happened to his family, he is still clearly carrying a lot of grief and guilt over it. This show is really not a great place for unpacked mental health issues.

Please tell me that "I feel seen" wont be this seasons "he showed up for me" or "sex positive."  

I hate that Chris S is still here while Romeo is gone, but I guess the show needed someone to be the villain after Michelle kicked out the two most obvious villains last week.

Edited November 10, 2021 by tennisgurl

[Recyclorette]

  On 11/10/2021 at 10:17 PM, tennisgurl said:

Please tell me that "I feel seen" wont be this seasons "he showed up for me" or "sex positive."  

I hate that Chris S is still here while Romeo is gone, but I guess the show needed someone to be the villain after Michelle kicked out the two most obvious villains last week.

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Michelle's fear of not being seen is totally understandable, unfortunately.  I just hope the producers don't endlessly bring it to the forefront and make Michelle seem like a whiner, because I don't think she is.  Clare's "show up for me" fits were so immature for her age and Katie's "sex positive" foolishness was a cheap gimmick.  

As for Romeo, I think he'll be just fine!  There are many just on this forum that would take him in a heartbeat!  Romeo, wherefore art thou . . . You only need to let us know . . . 😍

[nlkm9]

  On 11/10/2021 at 4:27 AM, tinkerbell said:

They put the guys in a team building, getting to know each other situation,  food, games, toys, and a fighting contest, and Michelle is mad that the guys weren't all about her.  Oh, hi Michelle, but COTTON CANDY!  POPCORN! GIANT TEDDY BEARS!

Were her eyebrows always so weird? They never bugged me before tonight.

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She has a fantastic body but i dont see her as attractive , but to each their own. Who is michael scott?? And i cant remember her from matts season- was she upset when he sent her home? I just remeber her coning in late

[DEL901]

  On 11/11/2021 at 12:44 AM, nlkm9 said:

She has a fantastic body but i dont see her as attractive , but to each their own. Who is michael scott?? And i cant remember her from matts season- was she upset when he sent her home? I just remeber her coning in late

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Michael Scott was a character in the Office tv show played by Steve Carell.   Michelle came 2nd in Matt’s season. 

[Back Atcha]

  On 11/11/2021 at 12:55 AM, DEL901 said:

Michael Scott was a character in the Office tv show played by Steve Carell.   Michelle came 2nd in Matt’s season. 

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Michelle DID come in late.  Viewers (and other bachelorettes) considered this arrival SHENANIGANS, setting her up to be either Matt's fiance` or the next Bachelorette!  We were correct.

  On 11/11/2021 at 12:01 AM, Recyclorette said:

Clare's "show up for me" fits were so immature for her age and Katie's "sex positive" foolishness was a cheap gimmick.  

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The producers aren't savvy enough to realize that these "cheap gimmicks" are rarely needed.  Sadly, when they hit on one, they use it over and over and over.  How YOUNG are they???

[Back Atcha]

  On 11/10/2021 at 6:39 PM, JenE4 said:

I don’t know. I mean of course the producers rile things up, but do you really think they would say, “Everyone ignore Michelle!”

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Yes, I do.  Of course, there would be an explanation after, "Everyone ignore Michelle!"  

Maybe, "Guys, have as much fun with this as you can--for the cameras.  Everyone ignore Michelle.  We have a different plan for her and she'll explain later.  Let the bear fights begin. ACTION!"

[LakeGal]

I have heard several men I know say that Michelle has a boy's body.  She is tall and lean but no real curves.  The guys on the show often seem to treat her as one of the guys.  Maybe this is why she doesn't feel appreciated by the guys. She is heavy into sports and relates to the guys more on the basketball court than as a girly girl.   

[Kiss my mutt]

It looks like Michelle lost a bit of weight since Matt’s season. She was thin but not skinny like she is now.  

 

[EarlGreyTea]

  On 11/10/2021 at 4:55 PM, DEL901 said:

Sometimes you have to speak up and tell people what you need whether it is being seen or that you want to play Duck Duck Goose too.  

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Ha! I felt personally attacked by this post. Michelle reminded me so much of myself this episode that I was cringing throughout. I've learned in the past few years how patently unfair it is to people, especially ones who don't know you very well, to know what you're thinking and what you want. I think we've been conditioned by romcoms that our soulmates will automatically know what we want and need. In some cases, they do, but mostly - you need to open your trap and TELL them, especially if you've only known them a week. At least she didn't sulk through the entire thing, though - something I might have done. CRINGE.

That said - this episode was amateur hour on the part of the guys. At least a handful of them should have been trying to cozy up to Michelle instead of making teddy bears. Rookies!

Edited November 11, 2021 by EarlGreyTea

[Alexander Pope]

  On 11/11/2021 at 2:47 AM, Kiss my mutt said:

It looks like Michelle lost a bit of weight since Matt’s season. She was thin but not skinny like she is now.  

 

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she may well have but she is rocking her gowns and looks plenty feminine to me!

[chocolatine]

I was disappointed by all the sulking and saying how much she wants to be seen. Why not just mingle and have fun on the date? Or stand back and observe for a while. You can learn a lot about people by watching how they interact with others.

I agree that Nayte is cocky (and the way he spells his name really bothers me), but it seems like the show is grasping at straws trying to incite drama over something minor like that. Speaking of drama, I knew that my fave Romeo was going home this week because he never got involved in any of the drama.

  On 11/11/2021 at 12:01 AM, Recyclorette said:

As for Romeo, I think he'll be just fine!  There are many just on this forum that would take him in a heartbeat!  Romeo, wherefore art thou . . . You only need to let us know . . . 😍

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I hate to be pedantic on this forum, but it's a huge pet peeve of mine that so many people get this wrong: "wherefore" means "why," not "where."

To bring this back on the topic of shallow snark, Martin's hair reminds me of the Cadbury Top Deck chocolate bars - white chocolate on top and milk chocolate on the bottom.

[nlkm9]

  On 11/11/2021 at 12:55 AM, DEL901 said:

Michael Scott was a character in the Office tv show played by Steve Carell.   Michelle came 2nd in Matt’s season. 

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wow I dont even remember. was she devastated when he dumped her??? its the first time they havent shown her "journey"

[nlkm9]

  On 11/10/2021 at 6:06 PM, Hip-to-be-Square said:

I caught that too!!  Such a pet-peeve of mine and I notice those mistakes a lot on 90 Day Fiancé- but I work hard to overlook them since that franchise is truly a trash TV masterpiece 🙌!  Speaking of Michelle, I'm convinced that the children shown multiple times to be her students are really child actors hired through casting agencies. 

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my biggest peeve is "I have a pit in my stomach. no, its a feeling like a pit in my stomach. and Im "weary" no its wary. ack.

[Recyclorette]

  On 11/11/2021 at 4:58 AM, chocolatine said:

 

I hate to be pedantic on this forum, but it's a huge pet peeve of mine that so many people get this wrong: "wherefore" means "why," not "where."

 

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Umm . . . You're going to have to take that up with Shakespeare.  "So many people" are simply quoting his work verbatim.  

[chocolatine]

  On 11/11/2021 at 4:58 PM, Recyclorette said:

Umm . . . You're going to have to take that up with Shakespeare.  "So many people" are simply quoting his work verbatim.  

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It's not the quote that's the problem, it's that most of the people who recite it don't understand what it means and therefore use it incorrectly. Juliet is asking *why* Romeo is who he is (i.e. a Montague) and not where he is. She then goes on to ask him to "deny [his] father and refuse [his] name."

Edited November 11, 2021 by chocolatine

[Hip-to-be-Square]

  On 11/11/2021 at 5:03 PM, chocolatine said:

It's not the quote that's the problem, it's that most of the people who recite it don't understand what it means and therefore use it incorrectly. Juliet is asking *why* Romeo is who he is (i.e. a Montague) and not where he is. She then goes on to ask him to "deny [his] father and refuse [his] name."

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Shakespeare is so difficult for me to understand!  I've been watching the 1980's hit series "Beauty and the Beast" with Ron Perlman and Linda Hamilton and he reads her Shakespeare all of the time and I just think, "Sounds romantic- whatever he just said" 😅.  Thank you for the explanations:  I really did think "wherefore" meant "where" all of this time when I heard it in movies and TV shows. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Hip-to-be-Square
spelling

[jade.black]

This show really knows how to ruin its leads. I liked Michelle a lot on Matt's season. She always seemed laid back and fun on their dates, making jokes and coming off very confident and comfortable in her own skin. Now she's actually the central figure with a bunch of guys vying for her and she's shrinking into the background? I haven't seen a lead seem this insecure since Ashley Hebert, and I don't get why. She doesn't seem the type to demand the spotlight, I would've expected her to jump in there and have fun with the guys, no invite needed.

I can't agree with the Chris/Michael Scott comparisons because I think Chris knows EXACTLY what he's doing. Does anyone else remember his intro video from ep1? I do, and the reason I do is because he came off like an absolute douchebro (who knows it and doubles down on it), so I'd been surprised he's stayed so under the radar up to now.

I mentioned on the ep1 thread that I went to high school with Rick in the same class (go see my post there if you want to check out his freshman yearbook pic, ha), and now I'm wondering if this is why he left our school junior year. That was a rough story. He definitely was a lot too fast with the love talk on one date though. I also had to laugh because I was talking to another high school friend about this the other day, and he was saying how his primary memory of Rick was him mumbling all the time in the huddle on the football field, and I see from his present-day mumbling and whispering that it hasn't changed!

[gwen747]

This season is so incredibly boring.  I think Michelle is a nice young woman, but she doesn't have the charisma to carry a season. And these guys are duds too. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by gwen747