S03.E06: What It Takes

[caitmcg]

2 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I was a little confused about why he was being cheered by the white supremists? If that's who they were? Was it for Greenpeace?

Yes, it was following up on the scene where he’s telling people about his plans to sue Greenpeace.

[xaxat]

So much good stuff in this episode. The sexual tension between Roman and the Neo Nazi, Shiv being eclipsed in Logan's eyes by Roman, Kendall managing to self sabotage once again, etc.

But I thought the most interesting plot was Kerry's ascension. Earlier this season it felt like she was just a personal assistant. Now, she offers advice to Logan on the presidential "primary", served as a defender of Logan when he mentioned the "rumor" that the AG had a photo of him on her dartboard and is so secure in her position that she doesn't care if the family knows they are having sex (or whatever they are doing.) 

Notes:

Tom has a prison consultant.

Salgado's pitch to Shiv: Get me your old man's endorsement and I will make sure you become CEO even if I have to send him to prison.

Multiple times: Yeah, I could see Connor. Ten minutes later he becomes irrelevant in the conversation.

An incumbent president pulling out of the race after the primaries have already started would be a political disaster.

Mankin: "If Franco or H or Travis Bickel..." Me: H? Ohh, now I get it.

 

[Lady S.]

21 hours ago, Francie said:

When Logan asked everyone about whether they'd support Connor, was that a test?  And Greg, though he initially failed it, did eventually speak up. 

I thought he was just cruelly teasing Connor while waiting for everyone to agree on someone else, but he likely was testing Greg too.

18 hours ago, tomsmom said:

I kept waiting for someone to say Connor can’t be president because his girlfriend’s  a prostitute.

Connor said something last season about his team cleaning up her background but I think nobody else mentioning it is proof they were not seriously considering crowning him. Although I wonder if a former-call-girl partner would be a dealbreaker if Connor really was in touch was the base the way Mencken apparently is. 

8 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I assumed it was just supposed to be used to show the others that Tom met with him. Tom realized that, but probably just doesn't care because what's he got to lose from Logan being mad at him for meeting with Kendall and refusing to help him? It was another showy but ultimately empty gesture, imo, from Kendall.

It was an empty gesture made because Kendall had to lash out after Tom accurately described Kendall's track record vs. Logan's. If Tom's going to prison he has little to fear from the family knowing he met with and rejected Kendall. Is Logan going to deprive him of being the Christmas tree because he saw the enemy without permission?

53 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I loved the moment when Tom corrected Kendall that Tom hadn't really played a hand well at all. He'd just fallen in love with Kendall's sister. That's basically how he got into this mess.

It might have helped Kendall if he could try to win someone over without insulting them. Tom is a shameless social climber but he also clearly has genuine feelings for Shiv. There's no reason to keep putting himself through this misery otherwise. 

I'm glad to know Tom may be tracking Shiv's cycle but has drawn the line at trying to replace her birth control with placebos or something. She's a bad wife in many ways but not because she won't let him get her pregnant to make him feel better. Especially since he doesn't really want a child either, he's just desperate to feel more secure in his marriage.

[Lassus]

I know everyone loves Tom today, but his statement to Shiv when she wanted to be close to him was complete garbage IMO.

[Lady S.]

6 minutes ago, Lassus said:

I know everyone loves Tom today, but his statement to Shiv when she wanted to be close to him was complete garbage IMO.

Yeah, there's rejecting pity sex and then there's that. The fact that he was tracking her cycle with the aim of trying to babytrap her before even discussing the prospect of having a child was pretty fucked up imho. The fact that she moved on from that and is still trying to make some effort with him says something. I doubt Shiv would really know how to comfort him any other way (how much emotional tenderness do we think any of the Roys grew up with?), so I don't know that it means she doesn't care at all.

[sistermagpie]

56 minutes ago, Lassus said:

I know everyone loves Tom today, but his statement to Shiv when she wanted to be close to him was complete garbage IMO.

I think it's another sign of his being without hope. He's got nothing to lose so he's just bluntly saying how he feels about things. Shiv not wanting to have a baby is connecting to the jail sentence he never stops thinking about so he just said that. That is, it's not even like he's intentionally trying to insult her with it. It just doesn't matter.

[Pestilentia]

11 hours ago, aghst said:

If you work for a company where current crimes are being committed

But Tom took over after the crimes took place.   

All of the illegal incidents were because of Mo's proclivities and that was some time ago according to Bill.  And if statutes have run out- again, it all happened some years ago. Remember Logan ranting about not remembering "a quarter century ago"?     

[Kirsty]

I don't know how you get two actors to generate sexual tension when they're talking about politics from opposite sides of a bathroom, but the guys playing Roman and Mencken did a beautiful job. I'm very curious about where that might go. Given Mencken's politics, he's probably wildly homophobic. And Roman's sexuality must be deeply repressed. But then Roman is so damaged and dysfunctional that it's hard to know what's going on with him behind all the jokes. He's pitiful. If Logan notices the vibes between Roman and Mencken, I guess he could use it to destroy Mencken's conservative support.

I'm enjoying the show but it does feel like it's spinning its wheels. I wonder if this is one of those shows that must maintain the status quo from first episode to last? It teases you with the idea of dramatic changes  -- Tom going to prison, Logan taking a step back, Kendall winning for once -- but in fact everything will stay the same until the series finale. I can see myself getting frustrated with that. This episode is the first one I've watched where I felt that way.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Kirsty

[Lassus]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but am I the only one who DIDN'T see or feel the sexual tension between Roman and Menken? 

Possible of course I'm way wrong, but this seems a bit of shipper confirmation bias.

[sugarbaker design]

22 hours ago, Diapason Untuned said:

Kendall spiraling again. You just hate to see it. 

Hate to see it?  I'm reveling in it!  Watching an entitled, spoiled brat, unrecovered drug addict 1%er repeatedly make the same mistakes over and over again is excellent TV.  It was a pivotal moment in that Denny's parking lot where Tom realized and expressed that Kendall always gets fucked.  I just wish Tom added it's because Kendall always makes the wrong decision.

[Blakeston]

So it sounds like Tom's main crime was lying to Congress, and the evidence that he lied comes from the papers that Greg turned over to Kendall (and maybe also some evidence procured in the FBI raid).

Do any of the other central characters know that Greg was the source of the papers?

[dmc]

57 minutes ago, Lassus said:

Maybe I'm in the minority, but am I the only one who DIDN'T see or feel the sexual tension between Roman and Menken? 

Possible of course I'm way wrong, but this seems a bit of shipper confirmation bias.

I didn’t see it either.  Roman is getting off on the sale.   Closing deals is always sort of sexy.  I almost went back to rewatch but then I saw an interview with the actor who was like yeah it’s a smart business decision and he is proving he can handle the role. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by dmc

[Kirsty]

1 hour ago, Lassus said:

Possible of course I'm way wrong, but this seems a bit of shipper confirmation bias.

Well, it's not confirmation bias, because I thought Roman was into older women. Why would I expect or look for sexual tension between him and a random male political candidate? What bias would that confirm? It was very surprising.

I'll admit I don't know if it was intentional, though. Like I genuinely don't know if that's what I was supposed to take from that scene or if the scriptwriters were just as surprised as me when they watched it! It was there, and I'm giving the actors credit for it, but that doesn't mean that anything will come of it.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Kirsty

[peachmangosteen]

I thought Roman had sexual tension with his personal trainer or whatever from season 1 (2?) as well so I wasn't surprised by what was happening with Roman and Justin Kirk. But yea, I never know what exactly the writers want us to be seeing/thinking about most things on this show so who knows if that was intentional.

[Lassus]

I mean, I think it's easy to read that Roman's repressed and a sexual tire fire, so I would certainly find it possible for him to be attracted to Menken.

But I feel like the reverse would just be way way WAY too easy/stock as a storyline.  It would be disappointing from a writing perspective, at least IMO.  This is why the "tension" part didn't ring true to me I guess, as opposed to what DMC said above, just Roman's general way of being and interacting with a deal.

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, Kirsty said:

I'm enjoying the show but it does feel like it's spinning its wheels. I wonder if this is one of those shows that must maintain the status quo from first episode to last? It teases you with the idea of dramatic changes  -- Tom going to prison, Logan taking a step back, Kendall winning for once -- but in fact everything will stay the same until the series finale. I can see myself getting frustrated with that. This episode is the first one I've watched where I felt that way.

This so much. This season is already tedious to me because it's just more of the exact same thing. I thought maybe it's just because I'm adjusting to watching it weekly instead of binging it and I do think that's part of it, but I think another part is just that literally nothing ever changes and it's just getting boring lol.

[aghst]

The long drawn-out succession process is just another way Logan abuses the kids.

He's repeatedly dangling it in front of the different kids, being sweet and different times to one while being mean to others.

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, Lassus said:

Maybe I'm in the minority, but am I the only one who DIDN'T see or feel the sexual tension between Roman and Menken? 

Possible of course I'm way wrong, but this seems a bit of shipper confirmation bias.

I saw it but I have no "shipper wish" of Roman getting with a fascist.  Menken seems like a disgusting person.  If anything, I have love for Kieran Culkin bias, which makes me see Roman as good when he really isn't.  

2 hours ago, Kirsty said:

Well, it's not confirmation bias, because I thought Roman was into older women. Why would I expect or look for sexual tension between him and a random male political candidate? What bias would that confirm? It was very surprising.

Exactly.  Roman has major mommy issues, plus as Kieran Culkin said "J (Smith Cameron) is hot".  LOL

2 hours ago, Kirsty said:

I'll admit I don't know if it was intentional, though. 

Two men drinking in a bathroom?  I think it was intentional.

[smartymarty]

17 hours ago, aghst said:

I think there are definitely laws requiring retention of documents or at least emails.  That is why people are warned not to put certain things on emails, because you assume it's always subject to legal discovery or disclosure.

Does that extend to paper documents?

That's once a lawsuit has been filed. No destruction of evidence.

Whether what Tom had Greg do, when it wasn't within normal business operations (e.g., annually shredding anything over 10 years old), was criminal, is beyond my legal knowledge.

Why did Roman like the fascist? Isn't Logan kind of the fascist leader of Waystar? (And yeah, I paused the show when he was in the bathroom with the fascist to ask "is it me or are they about to f*ck?")

Shiv tried to use sex to comfort Tom when it was her concern that he wanted. I mean, really. "I'm afraid of going to prison." "Here, will my having sex with you make it better?" Not a chance.

And also, I didn't enjoy Hamilton either. Words too quick for me to follow and no thread between vignettes. But that's probably not why the conservatives disliked it. LOL

Edited November 23, 2021 by smartymarty
forgot something

[caitmcg]

2 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Shiv tried to use sex to comfort Tom when it was her concern that he wanted. I mean, really. "I'm afraid of going to prison." "Here, will my having sex with you make it better?" Not a chance.

I don’t even think it was about comfort, it was to make it up to him for having just literally told him she’s sick of hearing him talk about prison, and in a very dismissive way. Never mind that she was looking at her phone the whole time, until she looked up and told him in not so many words that she doesn’t care.

[cardigirl]

9 hours ago, Pestilentia said:

But Tom took over after the crimes took place.   

All of the illegal incidents were because of Mo's proclivities and that was some time ago according to Bill.  And if statutes have run out again, it all happened some years ago. Remember Logan ranting about not remembering "a quarter-century ago"?     

How many people are paying for the "sins" of others? Tom recognized that if the information got out about Roystar Wayco, it could be disastrous, even if the events occurred years ago.  They certainly occurred under Logan's watch (he was around way back then) and nothing was done by the company to make reparations or even change the behavior.  Perhaps destroying the evidence of kickbacks, payouts, coverups, sexual assault, and murder isn't illegal? I agree that the cover up makes it so much worse, but clearly Tom had concerns about being left to hold the bag. 

Before he and Shiv were married, he wanted to tell her about this information, and her boss at the time was hoping for something juicy to go after Logan with, but once she knew how involved Tom was, she couldn't do it. She didn't want Tom to be harmed, and at least she felt a revelation would be bad news for him.

 Shiv was all for "cleaning up" the company until she was faced with one of the witnesses, and she chose to talk the witness out of testifying and made it sound like it was for the witness's benefit.  (One of the best episodes from last year.) 

 

[sugarbaker design]

3 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Why did Roman like the fascist?

Because he knows Menken can and probably will win, unlike the other 2 candidates.  As disgusting as he is, I would bet Menken has major appeal among the electorate.  Roro isn't looking for the best president, he's looking to further his power grab.

 

3 hours ago, smartymarty said:

And also, I didn't enjoy Hamilton either. Words too quick for me to follow and no thread between vignettes.

Thank you!  I had no idea what was going on.  Thank god I went with a fan.

 

4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Two men drinking in a bathroom?  I think it was intentional.

Totally intentional.  Both men wearing white shirts, no jackets.  One sitting on the john, one sitting on the sink.  It was totally homoerotic, or what TWoP used to call HoYay!, that is being erotic without being sexual, homo or otherwise.

[aghst]

According to IMDB, Justin Kirk is credited in just one episode, so we aren't suppose to see him again this season.

So is Mencken a one-off character?

It's kind of a big deal, backing a president who would owe them.

So whether he wins or loses, it would be a big deal either way for Logan, Roman, Shiv, ATN, Waystar.

 

I guess they could do it offscreen, that the guy wins and gets the DOJ to back off.  Then Kendall would lose all leverage.

Looks like Hope Davis is credited for two episodes.  So she's done as well.

Adrien Brody is credited for two episodes.  He may have been in the background of this one so his character may be done as well.  

Skarsgard is going to also do just one episode.

 

That would mean the struggle for power would be all within the Roy family.

And all these guest stars are what, just to get some big names into the show?

[heatherchandler]

On 11/22/2021 at 3:01 PM, jrzy said:

 

Did anyone else find this episide horribly depressing?  It is too real for me,  its how its done nowadays and we are marching closer and closer to facism each and every day.  I had trouble sleeping. 

I don't think this is a new thing.  

 

23 hours ago, Bulldog said:

Lots going on in this episode, but my favorite exchange was Tom telling Greg he no longer had to pretend that he liked Hamilton.   It struck a chord with me because I knew a couple who scored tickets to Hamilton.  After seeing it, they just raved and raved about how it was the greatest show they had ever seen, etc.  This went on for quite awhile.  Their enthusiasm finally subsided.  After it had all died down, they were at our house for dinner when they confessed that they really didn't care for it all.  The wife just said that since everybody gushed over it, they didn't feel that they could go against the grain and felt that they had to say they loved it too. 

 

I loved Hamilton, didn't even mind the actual insane prices.

 

20 hours ago, xaxat said:

 

Mankin: "If Franco or H or Travis Bickel..." Me: H? Ohh, now I get it.

 

I don't get that.

 

 

[Ss55]

1 hour ago, heatherchandler said:

 

^^^^ I don’t get it either.

[Blakeston]

"H" is Hitler. Even Roman seemed bothered that Mencken was willing to use his tactics.

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

"H" is Hitler. Even Roman seemed bothered that Mencken was willing to use his tactics.

Yes, I think you should be bothered by any candidate who has a cutesy nickname for Hitler. 

 

3 hours ago, aghst said:

According to IMDB, Justin Kirk is credited in just one episode, so we aren't suppose to see him again this season.

IMDB is not always on top of crediting people for every episode of a show they are in, particularly when those episodes have not yet aired. 

[Penman61]

I’m sorry but are people truly arguing that a man can’t be elected U.S. president if his wife has earned money for sex?

[cries in 2016]

 

 

 

[Francie]

I suppose there’s a case to be made that Tom became an accessory after the fact. I’m not going to look up whether the statute of limitations on the original crimes impacts on whether one can be an accessory. 

[Probably will look up that exact point of law within the next 12 hours]

Tom’s not guilty of conspiracy, at least for conspiracy to commit the original crimes. He would have had to form an agreement with one of the original wrongdoers to enact some sort of illegal goal. His only co-conspirator is Greg in destroying information long after those crimes were committed. 

 

[Haleth]

On 11/22/2021 at 9:32 AM, TV Diva Queen said:

Ok - what's up with Logan and his assistant.  Is she the puppet master?  

Kerry speaks!  And exchanges knowing glances with Logan.  Something is going on with her.

On 11/22/2021 at 3:43 PM, Penman61 said:

Likewise, I hope that while we're all pulled along with the Roy power moves, behind-the-curtain machinations of the very powerful, and the family's who's'-in-who's-out intrigue, the major point will be just how irreparably corroded this family is--and that it all flows from Logan.

I think that's already pretty clear.  He destroyed his children the moment they were born.  They are like whipped dogs.

On 11/22/2021 at 4:01 PM, jrzy said:

Did anyone else find this episide horribly depressing?  It is too real for me,  its how its done nowadays and we are marching closer and closer to facism each and every day.  I had trouble sleeping. 

Yes.  Deeply disturbing.  I guess it would be naive to think this isn't really happening.

Last season was Jeremy Strong's.  This season belongs to Matthew McFaddyen.

 

[Pestilentia]

18 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I have love for Kieran Culkin bias, which makes me see Roman as good when he really isn't.  

I see only the good in Roman- he's broken as are they all, but he's an adorable and fun broken person. Just the type of man 20 year old me would have fallen for because, you know- I could have fixed him (I do know better now).  Plus he looks like an old boyfriend who may have been 'the one who got away.'

And I see only the bad in Tom who strongly reminds me of an old boyfriend who had a couple of odd... proclivities.  At least I know where my own bias comes from.  

 

I did feel the HoYay, absolutely- I remember thinking to myself "I sure hope they don't go there with Roman" because there's enough going on with him as it is. Unless and until we get some sort of backstory or hint at the exact nature of his issues are I think throwing in even more is a mistake.  

Why has no one except Roman mentioned Connor's total lack of any work history at all? They all discuss his potential candidacy as a viable thing when he's in fact laughable.  

"Hi, I'm a rich asshole who has never worked a day in my life and I'm running for President. I have never held a job before but I really think I could do it! So vote for me and I'll give it a try."  It's too absurd even for this show.  

 

I too am finding this season to be a lot of nothing. Other than Kendall walking down a hallway it's been tedious with the same thing over and over- I need something to happen.   

And I really don't get the significance of the kid's mom not notifying them of an impending wedding.  These adult children never seem to think of her or talk about her or remember her fondly or even talk to her- they have no personal relationship with her.  I have an adult child like this who does their level best to ignore my existence and I did not notify them the last time I got married, either. Our lives have long since gone in different directions. And while that is sad I think it is more common than not.    

 

 

[Dminches]

On 11/21/2021 at 10:03 PM, Moviesnob said:

Damn. I figured Andy from Weeds would be important b/c he's, you know, Andy from Weeds. That scene with him and Roman was charged with all kinds of energy. This episode was just as awkward as the ones before (Tom & Greg eating 'prison food' at Denny's? lmao), and you can feel the chains tightening. Killer end with Shiv realizing her dad really does not give a fuck.

It does feel as though Shiv will be the one to take Logan down since it is for the right reasons (his willingness to support anyone just to remain on top) and she is much smarter than Kendall.

 

[Lassus]

9 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

 

13 hours ago, aghst said:

According to IMDB, Justin Kirk is credited in just one episode, so we aren't suppose to see him again this season.

IMDB is not always on top of crediting people for every episode of a show they are in, particularly when those episodes have not yet aired. 

I saw him in the previews for THIS episode last week, and looked for him in IMDB and didn't find it.  So, yes.

It's an interesting question, though, the way this show is written, he really COULD not show up at all going forward.  The bit is kind of done, he's been selected, there are two episodes left and next week seems not involved.

If I had to GUESS, I would call it even odds for finale or next season.

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, Lassus said:

there are two episodes left

There's only 2 eps left?! Fucking hell, I have no hope for any forward movement at all now lol.

[Kirsty]

There are three more episodes, which makes it a nine episode season.

[peachmangosteen]

A bit better. I still don't have much faith anything is going to actually happen though.

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, Pestilentia said:

And I see only the bad in Tom who strongly reminds me of an old boyfriend who had a couple of odd... proclivities.  At least I know where my own bias comes from.  

I definitely have bias FOR Tom because of "Pride and Prejudice" (2005).  He is a sex God in that movie.

Even though I love Alan Ruck in "Ferris Bueller" it doesn't give me any bias for Connor.  LOL.  Doesn't work the same way.  I think there has been too much time between projects.  Also I was never somebody who watched FB over and over again yet I can watch P&P once a year and I will cry every time.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[cardigirl]

I did not find this episode to be depressing, as many others have. I did enjoy the acting and the story line. Some of the writers for this show also worked on Veep, and that show really took on disfunction within our politics in a humorous way, which I found delightful. So I get similar vibes here.

I thought the conversation between Roman and Jeryd was so well done. Someone earlier said Roman wasn't picking Jeryd because he necessarily agrees with his point of view, he sees him as someone who can win the election, and who would be advantageous for Roystar Wayco. And if his pick gets into the White House, that will be a big win for Roman in scoring points with his father. 

I think Roman could definitely be the pick. Despite some of his proclivities, he has shown a true head for the business, and is thoughtful about what will be good for the company.  He's grown a lot over the course of the show. 

 

[Lassus]

5 hours ago, Kirsty said:

There are three more episodes, which makes it a nine episode season.

Your numbers are meaningless.  ANYONE can use numbers to prove anything that might be remotely true!

[Kirsty]

17 hours ago, Lassus said:

Your numbers are meaningless.  ANYONE can use numbers to prove anything that might be remotely true!

Huh?? You've lost me. The number of episodes in a season is on IMDB and Wikipedia, and I'm sure it's in entertainment news pieces all over the internet. There isn't anything here to dispute.

[Pestilentia]

21 hours ago, Kirsty said:

Huh?? You've lost me.

Parody.

[pasdetrois]

I've binged the series the past month, which reveals how well-plotted and written it is.

My one complaint is how one-note Shiv's character is. (I guess Logan is as well.) They have her striding busily in and out of scenes, talking rapidly, occasionally offering insincere affection to Tom. She does a lot of that abrupt dialogue, especially when talking to Tom, where they kind of talk over each other or communicate in short bursts. It's an effort to sound real but it's affected.

Speaking of Tom, Macfadyen is a delight in the role.

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

I've binged the series the past month, which reveals how well-plotted and written it is.

My one complaint is how one-note Shiv's character is. (I guess Logan is as well.) They have her striding busily in and out of scenes, talking rapidly, occasionally offering insincere affection to Tom. She does a lot of that abrupt dialogue, especially when talking to Tom, where they kind of talk over each other or communicate in short bursts. It's an effort to sound real but it's affected.

Speaking of Tom, Macfadyen is a delight in the role.

I feel like we're heading for something different with Shiv. Roman's taken the top spot, she's supporting someone she genuinely opposes. Plus, while she seems cruel or indifferent to Tom, I suspect her annoyance with him focusing on prison is a form of denial. She doesn't believe he'll be taken away from her because she can't face it.

[Adgirl]

On 11/21/2021 at 11:25 PM, tomsmom said:

I kept waiting for someone to say Connor can’t be president because his girlfriend’s  a prostitute.

I think everyone thinking it, but not saying it is hilarious.

I think Justin and Roman have a hot, bi vibe going on and I'm so here for it. They were so drawn to each other's depraved honesty they seem to generate sexual tension between them.

Logan wouldn't consider Delgado because he's Latinx.

[IslandGirl]

On 11/22/2021 at 7:58 AM, Lassus said:

I assume it's probably happened somewhere that I've missed, but has Roman ever actually had a genuine heart of gold moment?  

On 11/22/2021 at 8:44 AM, aghst said:

He did take Kendall out of that meth den in season 1.

Roman also refused to sign the letter Shiv wrote tearing down Kendall even though it was all true. I was pleasantly surprised by that; made me wonder if he’s as loyal to his siblings as he is to his father...

 

On 11/23/2021 at 9:23 PM, Penman61 said:

I’m sorry but are people truly arguing that a man can’t be elected U.S. president if his wife has earned money for sex?

[cries in 2016]

I thought the same! We’ve been there & unfortunately got the t-shirt, not to mention ireallydon’tcare jacket...

[IslandGirl]

The Logan children remind me of Trump’s offspring. They grew up with a wealthy, powerful father who withheld affection & approval, & pitted them against each other. So when they’re asked to do something by their father they know is wrong, they do it because they’re so desperately seeking his love, attention, affection & approval. Combine that with having an amoral parental role model who appears incredibly successful & I almost feel sorry for them.

Edited November 28, 2021 by IslandGirl
The usual writing is in the editing...

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, IslandGirl said:

Roman also refused to sign the letter Shiv wrote tearing down Kendall even though it was all true. I was pleasantly surprised by that; made me wonder if he’s as loyal to his siblings as he is to his father...

 

TBF, he was also the one who wanted to use the guy that Kendall had tattooed. But then, that was something that Roman himself didn't really think was bad. Shiv's letter was more about Kendall being weak, which is a much bigger shame in their family.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Two Major questions I forgot to ask:

1). Why is Tom a trophy husband?  Am I dumb?  Sure I said MMCF was a sex god in Pride and Prejudice, and he was, but Sarah Snook is gorgeous and younger than he is.  Is it because.... he's dumb?  Useless?  Just there as a placeholder because Shiv needs a husband, but doesn't even love him?  (Ouch)

2).  I completely missed Sanaa Lathan's character quitting or being fired - what?  What happened?

Thank you

Edited November 29, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[sistermagpie]

33 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

1). Why is Tom a trophy husband?  Am I dumb?  Sure I said MMCF was a sex god in Pride and Prejudice, and he was, but Sarah Snook is gorgeous and younger than he is.  Is it because.... he's dumb?  Useless?  Just there as a placeholder because Shiv needs a husband, but doesn't even love him?  (Ouch)

 

He's not a trophy husband, afaik. He met er when she was at some sort of low place and was able to make her feel better.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Okay, well I asked because that's what Roman called him.