S05.E02: Snoopin' Around and the Wonder Twins of Atheism

[DanaK]

Quote

Sheldon encourages Missy to question the Bible. Also, Meemaw is determined to catch George Sr. in a lie, and Mary helps Pastor Jeff (Matt Hobby)
search for a youth pastor, on YOUNG SHELDON, Thursday, Oct. 14 (8:00-8:31 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network, and available to stream live and on demand on Paramount+

 

[NeenerNeener]

Seeing the reruns of the first season of YS and then watching this season on the same night...it's like fast-forwarding the kids growing up.

Kind of disturbing, actually.

[Spartan Girl]

That youth pastor RULES! Even Sheldon liked hearing what he had to say. But of course Mary hates his open-minded approach. I swear for someone who hates The Simpsons, she’s becoming more and more like Marge with every episode.

George and Brenda sure are turning “nothing” into a big something. And Connie knows something is up. Not good.

[DanaK]

I liked the youth pastor storyline the best. If he can impress even Sheldon, he’s doing well

[SusanM]

This is the second week now that I forgot this show was on.  Good thing we live in a time when I won't have to wait until the summer re-runs to catch it!

[jalady]

I think this is going to turn into a storyline where "everyone thinks we're cheating so we might as well cheat", and not anything approaching a new love for George, or even being "driven" (barf!) into the arms of another woman.  Time will tell . . .

[Bobbin]

On 10/14/2021 at 5:34 PM, Spartan Girl said:

George and Brenda sure are turning “nothing” into a big something. And Connie knows something is up. Not good

Actually, it's Connie's interference that's driving them closer together.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Bobbin
I meant to say "meddling," couldn't think of the word.

[Kiddvideo]

I missed the first 15 minutes and don’t know why MeeMaw was suspicious or Missy started questioning God. I gotta give it to the writers and producers, I missed about 1/40th of a season and don’t know exactly what’s going on.

[Sarah 103]

I liked the new Youth Pastor. He took the time to get to know something about most of the children before he stepped in the room. He wants to be someone the children can trust with thier problems-when kids can't go to thier parents, he wants to be the person they go to and knows that will not happen if the kids think he is a spy for the parents. He thinks outside the box and knows how to get and keep the children's attention.

George and Brenda did almost nothing and they are both acting like it was far worse than it was. There is no way George and Brenda are going to be able to have a secret long term affair.  

[MollyMelrose]

With all the youth minister talk, found myself hoping Reverend Tim Tom from The Middle would have shown up, at least for an interview. (Because all these sitcom universes are real places, after all.)

[sheetmoss]

The actor playing the youth minister is Dan Byrd - he played Courtney Cox's son Travis on Cougar Town

[Browncoat]

I know Dan Byrd from Easy A.  He was great as the youth pastor.  I hope we see more of him.

[shapeshifter]

Dan Byrd, the new Youth Pastor, played Young Colliar Sims on Any Day Now, which starred MeMaw (Annie Potts) as mature Colliar's wife.

 

5 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

George and Brenda did almost nothing and they are both acting like it was far worse than it was. There is no way George and Brenda are going to be able to have a secret long term affair.  

7 hours ago, Bobbin said:

Actually, it's Connie's interference that's driving them closer together.

It's a story that makes me squirm, but they are telling it well. 

Along with the progressive (some viewers might say "subversive") youth pastor, they squeezed in a line about how the most happily married man George knows has no kids. 
Wait. Do I hear an Emmy nomination for writing?

ETA: They even checked the racism box in a completely natural way during the job interview —it might have been nice to get another line or two to show that by dismissing the Asian “northern” Baptist, they were missing out on a youth pastor who more closely matched their own conservatism, but it was more realistic to have the interview cut short. 

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by shapeshifter

[greekmom]

Iain has had such a growth spurt over the summer.  I really noticed it last night.

I like the youth pastor.  

Dislike Connie sticking her nose into nothing but I am still thinking that the writers are going to redeem George in the end. Hoping that it was him and Mary (in a wig) in the bedroom when Sheldon walks in. 

 Plus, it seems that every time George drops over to Brenda's the kids "are with Herschel".  It doesn't make sense that George would cheat with her in his home when hers is empty half the time.

Hopefully we get a voiceover of older Sheldon saying he remembered things wrong.

 

[Katy M]

7 hours ago, Bobbin said:

Actually, it's Connie's interference that's driving them closer together.

But if they weren't acting so squirrelly her spidey senses wouldn't be going up.  

[shapeshifter]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

But if they weren't acting so squirrelly her spidey senses wouldn't be going up.  

“if they weren't acting so squirrelly” Connie would’ve dropped it. 
But Connie’s “spidey senses” were already triggered when she heard that it was Brenda at the Bar who notified Mary of the heart attack.
Perhaps because Mary and Brenda weren’t that close Connie thought it odd?
And Connie has spent enough time at the bar to have been able to picture the scenario —maybe wondering why Brenda was close enough to the event to be the first to call.
Connie was probably open to the idea that maybe Brenda called Mary because someone thought that woman-to-woman was the best way to break the news to Mary —until Brenda confirmed Connie’s suspicions with squirrely-ness —as did George with even more squirrelly evasiveness.

But the main thing is that George and Brenda having an emotional connection is probably more damaging to his marriage than a physical dalliance.

But, yes, Connie is stirring the hornets nest. 

[SusanM]

2 hours ago, greekmom said:

Dislike Connie sticking her nose into nothing but I am still thinking that the writers are going to redeem George in the end. Hoping that it was him and Mary (in a wig) in the bedroom when Sheldon walks in. 

Sheldon mentions his father's adultery at least 3 or 4 times that I can remember in BBT, he never made it sound like it was always with the same woman but nothing he said on BBT made it sound like any of the  women was a neighbour.  If they're going to go with George the Cheater I wish they'd at least stick to what we've already been told.

[vibeology]

10 hours ago, Bobbin said:

Actually, it's Connie's interference that's driving them closer together.

I strongly disagree with this. They are responsible for flirting and the emotional connection they've created. No one else. If the only concern was making sure they had their stories straight, that conversation in the chicken coop would have ended before George started flirting with Brenda and certainly wouldn't have included them clearly sitting down and talking for some time. They are two lonely people who've made a connection and they want to spend time together. Connie snooping is just a convenient excuse. They'd find another one because they want to be together. It fulfills a need they both have. 

Brenda's self-esteem clearly took a hit with her divorce. She went from a busy house to being alone half of the time. She's lonely and insecure and this whatever it is gives her attention, fills her day and makes her feel wanted.

For George, his life has turned out far less exciting than he anticipated. He doesn't have a great connection with Mary, his job isn't the one he dreamed off and his kids have gotten to the age where they challenge him. An affair of any sort, but especially one with Brenda where he can open up about his feelings of disappointment without hurting the people he loves, is an outlet that has been missing in his life. What George really needs is therapy with a professional who could draw appropriate boundaries so that George could work through his feelings without engaging in an emotional (and eventually physical) affair. Instead George gets something that fulfills his need to talk and because it's somewhat illicit brings an excitement to his life that has been missing.

[Keywestclubkid]

Ok was I the only one that found it gross the length that they were going through to hide that they were together at a bar? It wasnt funny at all and just came across as ugh....

[joanne3482]

10 hours ago, Kiddvideo said:

I missed the first 15 minutes and don’t know why MeeMaw was suspicious or Missy started questioning God. I gotta give it to the writers and producers, I missed about 1/40th of a season and don’t know exactly what’s going on.

MeeMaw was suspicious because she ran into Brenda at the store and was all innocently talking about how Brenda was there and their big event (being the heart attack not that they were there together).  Brenda got all squirrely about it saying they weren't even together there. But she was clearly lying.

Missy started questioning God because they were at the Moses part of the Bible where God kills the baby boys and she was troubled about that. Especially because Sheldon was explaining HOW God had the baby boys killed (drowning in the river). I did like that the pastor was encouraging her to question things because I think it is important if a person is going to believe that they believe because they choose to not because "this is what we do." 

Edited October 15, 2021 by joanne3482

[DoYouLikeMutton]

4 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Ok was I the only one that found it gross the length that they were going through to hide that they were together at a bar? It wasnt funny at all and just came across as ugh....

Then they go in the chicken coop together to discuss, basically, nothing.  Seriously?  Talk about arousing suspicion.  

How out of character for Brenda to respond to Connie the way she did.  I would expect Brenda to say something like "What's with the 20 questions?  I've got shopping to do!", not quake in her boots over nothing.

Edited October 15, 2021 by DoYouLikeMutton
fixed typo

[rmontro]

11 hours ago, jalady said:

I think this is going to turn into a storyline where "everyone thinks we're cheating so we might as well cheat", and not anything approaching a new love for George, or even being "driven" (barf!) into the arms of another woman.  Time will tell . . .

I had been wondering if this episode at the bar is what is going to be built up and characterized as George's great "cheating event".  If Mary knew the truth, I'm sure she would be appalled.  Emotional cheating can be as bad, or worse, than physical cheating.  But you're probably right, something more substantial is likely on the way, because they're sneaking around together hiding in chicken coops.

 

30 minutes ago, joanne3482 said:

Missy started questioning God because they were at the Moses part of the Bible where God kills the baby boys and she was troubled about that. Especially because Sheldon was explaining HOW God had the baby boys killed (drowning in the river).

I feel like I should point out here that Pharoah killed the baby boys, God didn't.  Missy's objection was that God did not stop it.

And on that subject, I did like the youth pastor.  Certainly better than Jason Alexander's recent clumsy attempt at being a pastor on The Conners.

[Chit Chat]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Connie was probably open to the idea that maybe Brenda called Mary because someone thought that woman-to-woman was the best way to break the news to Mary —until Brenda confirmed Connie’s suspicions with squirrely-ness —as did George with even more squirrelly evasiveness.

I don't think Connie was necessarily suspicious until Brenda freaked out when she questioned her.   Like Connie, almost any woman would've picked up on Brenda's unease!  After last week's episode, it appeared that George and Brenda weren't going to pursue a relationship any further, but now that Connie stuck her nose into it (which I don't blame her for protecting Mary), it kind of forced them to make sure they were on the same page with their story.  They are making it much worse than it needs to be.  Guilt will do that though - even if George & Brenda didn't act on their attraction to each other.  

31 minutes ago, DoYouLikeMutton said:

How out of character for Brenda to respond to Connie the way she did.  I would expect Brenda to say something like "What's with the 20 questions?  I've got shopping to do!", not quake in her boots over nothing.

Agreed.  Pre-divorce Brenda would've had a very snarky comment for Connie.  Maybe the divorce has her rattled!

One of my favorite characters on the show is Peg (church secretary).  I'm glad we got to see more of her in this episode.  

14 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

But of course Mary hates his open-minded approach.

I think she was just jealous because she sucked at being a Sunday school teacher (or, sssssucked!)  Then the youth pastor told her that he doesn't really want to get involved with the parents.  Mary is a helicopter Mom when it comes to Sheldon, so for her to be pushed aside is really difficult for her.   I'm hoping that we'll see more of the youth pastor and less of the cheated/didn't cheat storyline.  It's dragging the show down.  

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

Then the youth pastor told her that he doesn't really want to get involved with the parents. 

Although, otoh, it's kind of a red flag if someone put in charge of a group of children doesn't want any parental interference or participation.  These kids are a bit older, but in my church, you need two adults in the nursery and children's church at all times.  Sure, this was 30 years ago, but molestation in church was not unheard of even back then.

[Chit Chat]

4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Although, otoh, it's kind of a red flag if someone put in charge of a group of children doesn't want any parental interference or participation.  These kids are a bit older, but in my church, you need two adults in the nursery and children's church at all times.  Sure, this was 30 years ago, but molestation in church was not unheard of even back then.

I understand, but I can also understand him wanting to get to know the kids on his own so that he can form his own impressions of them.    As long as they are in a setting at church where the Pastor or a parent could stop by and check on them, I think it would be okay.  I'd draw the line at him taking them camping, or  some other outing by himself.   

My main concern would be what he is teaching the kids.  I think that Pastor Jeff needs to drop by and listen in to make sure it's not something that their particular church doesn't agree with.  

 

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

I understand, but I can also understand him wanting to get to know the kids on his own so that he can form his own impressions of them.  

But he'd already researched them beforehand.

[Keywestclubkid]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

 

 

I feel like I should point out here that Pharoah killed the baby boys, God didn't. 

God allowed it to happen ... God allows all the bad things to happen that was her point

[possibilities]

The reason the "affair" is spiraling out of control is that George didn't want to be honest with Mary and tell her that he was drinking and talking with Brenda, and she propositioned him, and he had a heart attack (or panic attack?) and is now really freaking out about the whole thing. And the reason he doesn't want to pre-emptively tell her is that he wants to continue keeping distance between himself and Mary instead of opening the can of worms that is their marriage. And he enjoys Brenda, and doesn't want to give that up, or deal with Mary blowing up at their neighbor who she thought was becoming her friend.

George avoids confrontation. He is trying to sweep something under the rug to avoid the truth of his feelings which are: contempt for Mary, attraction to Brenda, and fear of facing any of it. 

[Grizzly]

I thought it was very telling that George and Mary didn't have any scenes together.

[rmontro]

2 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

God allowed it to happen ... God allows all the bad things to happen that was her point

That's what I said.  "Missy's objection was that God did not stop it."

I don't see that as a valid theological point (either we have free will or we don't, either our actions have consequences or they don't), but that was her point.

[shapeshifter]

23 minutes ago, rmontro said:

That's what I said.  "Missy's objection was that God did not stop it."

I don't see that as a valid theological point (either we have free will or we don't, either our actions have consequences or they don't), but that was her point.

To be fair(?) that was the Sunday School lesson that Pastor Jeff taught when he was sleep deprived from a new baby in the house, and also after which he recognized that he was not up to the task of fielding questions from inquiring minds, and so decided to hire a youth pastor.

So, I don't think any valid theological points were made that day, 🙃
but kudos to Pastor Jeff for recognizing his own shortcomings.

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

And he enjoys Brenda, and doesn't want to give that up, or deal with Mary blowing up at their neighbor who she thought was becoming her friend.

It's interesting that up until last episode, we've never seen George interact with Brenda (except for maybe a "hi and bye" scene.)  We've never seen him show any interest in her before.  I'm hoping that the bar scene was a one-off kind of thing.  Brenda was feeling lonely, and George was feeling lonely/neglected, so they let the moment almost lead them to do something stupid.  Maybe this won't go any further.  

[SusanM]

2 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

Maybe this won't go any further.  

I'm hopeful that it will get dropped.  My suspicion is this is a bit of foreshadowing for what is coming but they aren't quite ready to go there yet.  If they're going to follow the BBT timeline then I really want them to wait until the bitter end before they turn George into the George Sheldon remembers.

[Keywestclubkid]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

That's what I said.  "Missy's objection was that God did not stop it."

I don't see that as a valid theological point (either we have free will or we don't, either our actions have consequences or they don't), but that was her point.

but we don't if everything is preordained like the bible says then there is no free will really .. her point was those kids didn't do anything wrong but got caught up in Gods lil tug of war... so all the babies were sent to hell (cause they wernt baptized) through no fault of their own.. when you start to really look at it its kinda fucked up

[Chit Chat]

7 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

but we don't if everything is preordained like the bible says then there is no free will really .. her point was those kids didn't do anything wrong but got caught up in Gods lil tug of war... so all the babies were sent to hell (cause they wernt baptized) through no fault of their own.. when you start to really look at it its kinda fucked up

I will take my reply to the 'TBBT vs. Young Sheldon' thread (I don't know where else to take it), just so we don't get this thread knee-deep in theology!!  

[tennisgurl]

I love Dan Byrd as the new youth pastor, I hope he sticks around. I like his more open minded approach to religion, he's so cool that even Sheldon likes him, much to Mary's obvious jealousy. That sssssssucks for Mary. 

I don't know how George and Brenda are going to keep long term affair going, they both really suck at keeping secrets. The whole situation is so messy, its pretty obvious that even without the possible affair things are not going well for Mary and George. George is unhappy and unable to really talk out it, especially to Mary, and that's making him look for any person he can talk to. In an ideal world, he would talk to Mary and they would engage in real talk about their relationship and George's depression, but we know that's probably not what is going to happen. 

"I don't know if that's really smart or really stupid." Yep, that's Georgie for you. 

[Chit Chat]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I don't know how George and Brenda are going to keep long term affair going, they both really suck at keeping secrets. The whole situation is so messy, its pretty obvious that even without the possible affair things are not going well for Mary and George.

I hope that this incident will keep George on the straight and narrow path in the future!  He felt guilty enough for entertaining the idea of hooking up with Brenda, so he needs to heed the warning and mend his marriage!!  A girl can hope, right?  

[ams1001]

Went out for my mom's birthday last night and didn't get home until 8:30 so just got to watch.

Don't like the George & Brenda story so I'm just gonna focus on the things that make me laugh for now.

"We're all just Baptists, right?" "I'll show him out." 😄

Pastor Rob looks my cousin but with a mustache and darker hair. 

Loved Missy's "You just want the new guy to have a bad day." 

Her hair looked cute with the headband.

[Chit Chat]

I loved Missy & Sheldon's scenes in this one.  He's thrilled to have a fellow atheist!  As much grief as Sheldon gives Pastor Jeff with his questions, I'd love to see the youth pastor lob a few answers back to Sheldon that make him stop and rethink things.  Of course we know that Sheldon won't concede on that.   I do love how Sheldon supports his Mom by going to church with her.   I loved when he said in the very first episode that his Mom was his Christian soldier.  The stability of their Sunday routine seems to be very important to Sheldon.  

[shapeshifter]

12 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

As much grief as Sheldon gives Pastor Jeff with his questions, I'd love to see the youth pastor lob a few answers back to Sheldon that make him stop and rethink things.  Of course we know that Sheldon won't concede on that. 

In a way, Youth Pastor Rob(?) already did "lob a few answers back to Sheldon," e.g.:

• [Sheldon to Mary] Well, I told him religion isn't objective and there's no proof for it.
• [Mary] Oh, I bet he didn't like that.
• [Sheldon] He loved it. He quoted Kierkegaard and said if you could prove it, there'd be no room for faith.

Edited October 16, 2021 by shapeshifter
my usual typo

[Gimmick Genius]

One of the candidates (the "We're all just Baptists, right?") was from Rhode Island. That's where Baptists first landed in America! In fact, in Providence they have The First Baptist Church in America. Now, every town can have a "First Baptist Church," but they MEAN it - it's the first one! Of course, they're all American Baptists who are the liberal ones.

I've also visited the biggest Southern Baptist church in the state of Vermont, and - it's not very big!

[possibilities]

But why do we need to have faith? 

I wanted Sheldon to say that. Though he'd probably phrase it as "I prefer science. I think faith is over-rated.."
 

[Chit Chat]

5 minutes ago, possibilities said:

But why do we need to have faith? 

I wanted Sheldon to say that. Though he'd probably phrase it as "I prefer science. I think faith is over-rated.."

He would've quoted verses from Hebrew back to him, but I'm sure that Sheldon would've had a comeback.  Back in my day (how old does that sound!) you had to be of a certain age to go to "big church."  We were in Sunday school while the grown-ups went to hear the Pastor speak.  Then when we were old enough for that, you didn't dare speak out during the sermon!

Hebrews 11:1 & 6:  Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.  But without faith it is impossible to please him; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.  

And as we learned from Red from the Shawshank Redemption, hope is a good thing!

 

[Yeah No]

15 hours ago, rmontro said:

I had been wondering if this episode at the bar is what is going to be built up and characterized as George's great "cheating event".  If Mary knew the truth, I'm sure she would be appalled.  Emotional cheating can be as bad, or worse, than physical cheating.  But you're probably right, something more substantial is likely on the way, because they're sneaking around together hiding in chicken coops.

I've been hoping that Sheldon sees them doing something suspicious but easily misinterpreted.  The chicken coop thing was going in that direction.   It would be something that looks like there was hanky panky going on when there was not.  Something that could redeem George somewhat.

I don't know that there is or will be any emotional relationship between George and Brenda.  Most of the faces he's made so far can just be worry about being roped into something he may not really want or knows better than to let happen, or worry over being seen by others as having desires for this woman when he really does not.  I don't think his behavior so far is any indication that he feels close to her or wants anything more with her than a polite acquaintanceship.  His guilty expressions may be a result of overblowing it in his mind that if a woman propositions him or encourages him he's to blame for it somehow and is therefore a cheater.  So far I didn't see any indication on his end that he really wants that.  I think that's reading into it somewhat.  That may come in the future but if the show really wants to let George off easy and create the perfect situation for Sheldon to misinterpret what's going on, the way it has been set up so far will accomplish that brilliantly.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Yeah No

[Kiddvideo]

On 10/15/2021 at 10:02 AM, joanne3482 said:

MeeMaw was suspicious because she ran into Brenda at the store and was all innocently talking about how Brenda was there and their big event (being the heart attack not that they were there together).  Brenda got all squirrely about it saying they weren't even together there. But she was clearly lying.

Missy started questioning God because they were at the Moses part of the Bible where God kills the baby boys and she was troubled about that. Especially because Sheldon was explaining HOW God had the baby boys killed (drowning in the river). I did like that the pastor was encouraging her to question things because I think it is important if a person is going to believe that they believe because they choose to not because "this is what we do." 

Thank you — that was very helpful!

[shapeshifter]

On 10/15/2021 at 10:02 AM, joanne3482 said:

MeeMaw was suspicious because she ran into Brenda at the store and was all innocently talking about how Brenda was there and their big event (being the heart attack not that they were there together).  Brenda got all squirrely about it saying they weren't even together there. But she was clearly lying.

But I also thought Connie/MeeMaw was already suspicious of why Brenda was at the bar in such close proximity to George that she called Mary about him being in the hospital. I mean, if Brenda had been at the end of the bar when it happened, she probably wouldn't have felt like she knew enough about it to call Mary. Right? And I think Connie was thinking exactly that. Brenda's squirrely-ness just confirmed it.

[Chit Chat]

46 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I mean, if Brenda had been at the end of the bar when it happened, she probably wouldn't have felt like she knew enough about it to call Mary. Right?

On one hand, it would make sense for Brenda to call Mary since they are neighbors and more than likely would be one of the few people in the bar that knew their home phone number (besides the bartender.)  On the other hand, Connie is very shrewd and intuitive, so running into Brenda was the perfect chance for her to question her.  I think if Brenda had said something like "I was there minding my own business when I saw George.  I went over to say hello and that's about the time he appeared to be having a heart attack, so as Mary's friend I went to the hospital with him."  End of story!   She and George didn't think their stories through very well.  

[SusanM]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

But I also thought Connie/MeeMaw was already suspicious of why Brenda was at the bar in such close proximity to George that she called Mary about him being in the hospital.

I just saw this episode and to me it didn't seem that Connie was suspicious of anything when she first encountered Brenda.  It felt to me that she was talking to Brenda just as I'd expect her to about what had happened.  It was Brenda's reaction that raised a huge red flag with her.  

One thing I noticed and really liked was the way George's co-worker immediately asked him "So did Mary wise up and finally leave you" (or something like that).  I really like the way the guy who probably knows George pretty well seems to consistently side with Mary whenever things come up!

[proserpina65]

On 10/15/2021 at 4:22 PM, Keywestclubkid said:

but we don't if everything is preordained like the bible says then there is no free will really .. her point was those kids didn't do anything wrong but got caught up in Gods lil tug of war... so all the babies were sent to hell (cause they wernt baptized) through no fault of their own.. when you start to really look at it its kinda fucked up

If you look at almost anything in the bible, it's all kinds of fucked up.  Really makes me appreciate pagan religions.

 

[Yeah No]

46 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

On 10/15/2021 at 4:22 PM, Keywestclubkid said:

but we don't if everything is preordained like the bible says then there is no free will really .. her point was those kids didn't do anything wrong but got caught up in Gods lil tug of war... so all the babies were sent to hell (cause they wernt baptized) through no fault of their own.. when you start to really look at it its kinda fucked up

If you look at almost anything in the bible, it's all kinds of fucked up.  Really makes me appreciate pagan religions.

Any belief system and/or religious text can be warped and misinterpreted, including "pagan religions".

And BTW, the whole premise of the book of Genesis is all about free will so I don't know where @Keywestclubkid got the idea that the bible says there is no free will.  Again, another interpretation, and not mine.