S13.E10: Locked Out

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I don't play games; I never have. Maybe that's why I didn't get married until I was 45. I don't think I ever threw myself at anyone and I don't think Brett is doing that. I think she is being honest and straightforward. She likes Ryan. What's the point of playing games? How is it "emotionally mature" to play hard to get? If Ryan isn't into Brett and never will be, then why bother to play at anything. I think the best thing to do in this show is to just be honest, give it your best shot and see what happens. I think the whole point of the show it to get people out of the game playing mindset of dating.

The phrase "hard to get" is not really accurate.  What it is is not showing your hand too soon.  It's not immature because it's often tricky during the first stages of a relationship as to who likes who first, and if one person likes the other one too much first it can make the other one feel pressured or obligated to reciprocate.  That exact thing happened to me when I met my husband.  He made no effort to hide how he felt for me, but I was nowhere near liking him "that way" back.  If he had not backed off and given me a LOT of space I never would have turned around and found my feelings for him.  This is actually a known thing in relationship counseling.  The pursuer has to back off and give space to the distancer or they may never come around and realize that they do in fact feel a spark with the person.  The distancer can become confused and feel obligated if not for that.  It all depends on where they are in their feelings for you. 

We know from this show that in some cases one person is much further along than the other.  That can scare someone if they are not at the same place yet or close.  You don't even have to throw yourself at a person for them to feel too much pressure to reciprocate in kind.  Just letting them know you have a crush or whatever like Brett did is enough.  The people involved don't even have to be immature but that just makes it worse.  So anyway, that's it in a nutshell.  With Ryan this is actually a moot point because he's really a true commitmentphobe and no matter what Brett does or doesn't do at this point it probably won't work. 

Ryan is also now completely spooked by knowing that Brett really likes him and even said that he is afraid he might hurt her knowing how she feels about him, so of course he will never feel comfortable enough to take a risk with her.  Now he is afraid of hurting her because she let him know she likes him.  That's a unique thing with romantic relationships I've found.  A man doesn't want to feel responsible for hurting a woman if he's a decent person and that all by itself might make him afraid to get too involved with her, especially if he has trouble committing to begin with.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Yeah No

[Elizzikra]

Quote

A man doesn't want to feel responsible for hurting a woman if he's a decent person and that all by itself might make him afraid to get too involved with her, especially if he has trouble committing to begin with.

Dude - they're married. How much more involved could he get? :)

Quote

he is afraid he might hurt her knowing how she feels about him, so of course he will never feel comfortable enough to take a risk with her. 

She knows how he feels about her and it does hurt. I think they would be better off just addressing it head on. And even if they aren't in the same place now, how does that mean that he will never feel comfortable taking a risk with her?

Seriously - if everyone would just be honest (kindly and tactfully) the world would run so much easier. Instead it's all "well, I like him but I'm guessing maybe he's taking longer to get there so I'll pretend I don't like him as much as I really like him and we'll do that for awhile but then I have to be a little more interested because I might have gone too far and now he feels friend-zoned and blah, blah, blah." Call it playing hard to get or showing your hand too soon or whatever but there is a reason those are both metaphors in game playing. Romantic relationships aren't a hand of poker.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Elizzikra

[Lindz]

When Rachel told José she could not be his wife, he responded, "Okay. Makes sense. Good. Awesome. That was good. Okay." Then offers to help her pack. WTF?!!! Tryna sound cool, like he doesn't care. He knows he effed up, but he's too proud & stubborn. So he looks even more crazy. He sounds like a supportive girlfriend like he's happy she's leaving him. Is he trying to save face? Fool!

[pdlinda]

48 minutes ago, ECM1231 said:

He's no stud muffin so I don't know why he's feeling so entitled to an Instagram model wife 

He's not stupid so I'm unsure what his thought pattern would be regarding finding an "instagram model" wife at 35???  

Wouldn't he have focused on that demographic and succeeded by now?  What would be different to attract such a "drop-dead gorgeous" woman (with admittedly unknown character, emotional, physical, intellectual, and spiritual health) to his side in marriage?

I don't think Ryan will EVER be 100% committed to Brett because he is simply not physically attracted to her (despite her flaunting her ample cleavage at every conceivable opportunity). 

 

 

[Lindz]

What the selective, deflective hearing?? She asked him if WHAT he said & HOW he said it was okay & he picks out that he said he was unhappy & she repeats herself, then he responds, "Apparently not." I wish she would've fully called him out & said it was ABUSIVE. Then he says he doesn't trust her too because she called him the wrong name. GTFOH!!! Then tried to say he didn't lock her out on purpose. BS!! She said she felt he didn't care & he responded, "I don't know. I really don't know. Seriously." WHAAAAT??!!! Cool! Thanks for showing your true colors!! 😂😂

Edited September 27, 2021 by Lindz

[LennieBriscoe]

7 hours ago, cinsays said:

yeah, but why should he have to deal with her the way she is now, before she's had any of this therapeutic help, if she even would agree to get it? 

But my point was that Zack thinks people are who they are (apparently at the moment he meets them) and cannot change. Period.

Sorry; I'm repeating myself! 

FTR, I think Zack is probably right about Michaela. And thus, having regarded "MAFS" as his last hope for marriage, he is now distraught. He needs a calm, helpful, thoughtful wife---give him Rachel!

Edited September 25, 2021 by LennieBriscoe

[Auntie Anxiety]

What’s that joke about how many therapists does it take to change a light bulb? Only one, but the bulb has to want to change (or something like that?).

Therapy is good, but not all therapists are good and not everyone who seeks help really wants to change; they want to be told how it’s not his/her fault and it’s everyone else’s problem (see Michaela).

Because of my past experience (too many years with an ex-husband who had a raging case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder), I definitely understand what Zack is feeling. At the first inkling of that set of NPD behaviors, I’d be gone. I don’t have any patience for it because I was so traumatized by it during my marriage. I would never put myself into that kind of situation again.

[Lindz]

Props to Rachel for keeping calm & cool. She did slip with her language. Stooping to his level, but eh. She said she couldn't be his wife, so she better have meant it. That's pretty much saying she wants a divorce. I think she resorted to that too fast, but it's probably for the best. He's all kinds of wrong & thinks it's okay. I really want to know why.

[Crashcourse]

If I'm Zack, I'm done.   Honestly, I don't think anyone could get over being called a g*ddam motherfuckin' liar--and on tv.   Also, we don't what else she might have called him.  

[LennieBriscoe]

It must be written into the contracts that participants may not ask the "experts" WHY, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, was I matched with this person?!

[Elizzikra]

Quote

She said she couldn't be his wife, so she better have meant it. That's pretty much saying she wants a divorce. I think she resorted to that too fast,

I don't. I think Rachel was saying "you aren't going to talk to me this way and treat me this way." That was an appropriate line to draw and an appropriate time to draw it. I think the response she wanted (and was right to want) was "you're right - I'm so sorry. I totally overreacted, what I did was not ok and it will not happen again." And even at that, I wouldn't hold it against her if she still decided to leave. People lose their tempers. They yell and they say things they regret. But deliberately locking your spouse out of the house in the middle of the night is abusive. I don't use that word lightly. It's a common act for abusers to lock their partners out of the house as it shows dominance and control. That's exactly what Jose was doing. I'd have a very hard time getting past that.

What did cause me to wrinkle my brow a bit was Rachel saying "I don't love him anymore." I don't really believe in love at first sight and I was having a hard time believing she was truly "in love" with Jose so quickly. Then she is "out of love" immediately. Many abused people love their partners; that's part of why it's hard to leave. I would have believed Rachel more if she said "I still have feelings of love for him which makes this hard, but I know I need to demand to be treated with respect and dignity." I thought her "I don't love him" sounded a little juvenile and flip. Or maybe it was the first declaration of love that was juvenile and flip?

[Lindz]

I hate that people are entitled to their feelings, no matter how stupid or wrong. I can't validate José's issue with being called the wrong name. It was not said maliciously. It's disturbing that people can take minor mistakes as personal attacks. From their own spouse, no less! It's unhealthy. They need help! 😅 They need to take a long, hard look at themselves & find out why they get so upset and react so badly.

 

[Lindz]

1 hour ago, Elizzikra said:

I don't. I think Rachel was saying "you aren't going to talk to me this way and treat me this way."

No. She said, "I can't be your wife." That's final. What's he gunna say? "Yes. You can."? 😅 He wasn't giving her anything to work with and she just derived that he didn't care about her & wasn't sorry for what he said & did, so she seemingly ended the marriage and said she was moving out. There's nothing more to discuss after that. She could've tried establishing that boundary better by saying what you said, but didn't do it the right way. She switched to not trusting him & he used that opportunity to put it back on her for calling him the wrong name, which made no sense how that broke trust. They both decided what's sufficient for the other. She wrongly decided her apology was sufficient for him. I wonder what is. I doubt anything is. Maybe he's angry because she's not the perfect person he decided she was. He decided cursing at her, telling her to get out, & locking her out was sufficient for her. He doesn't even think that was wrong or bad. They definitely can't get past that. 😅

Edited September 25, 2021 by Lindz

[After7Only]

On 9/23/2021 at 4:00 PM, bichonblitz said:

Soooo did nobody open the door for Rachel? Do any of them stay in those apartments or do they all live separately and go there for filming only? Hmmmmm are we being duped? I think there is so much more going on off camera than we know. Or maybe I should say so much less. 

I wondered the same.   None one answered?   I thought I heard a dog barking at Marla and Gil’s.   So maybe Gil was working overnight and Myrla wasn’t there.  I also noticed she said she said she knocked on Brett’s door, she didn’t mention Ryan.   Wouldn’t be shocked if the others weren’t home either.

21 hours ago, Lindz said:

WHAT was Zack and Michaela's activity? Were they excluded because they're so far behind? 🤔They're probably having sex again.

 

Michaela also didn’t show for the girls activity after the lock out.  She also threatened to cancel the housewarming,   and it feels like she does a lot fewer talking heads than everyone else.   I’m wondering if she’s having issues with production and is refusing to film.     Due to her lack of talking heads, her reaction to Zack seems disproportionate to what we’re seeing.   So she’s big mad because her temper scares Zack?  .    

[Boo Boo]

6 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

But my point was that Zack thinks people are who they are (apparently at the moment he meets them) and cannot change. Period.

Sorry; I'm repeating myself! 

FTR, I think Zack is probably right about Michaela. And thus, having regarded "MAFS" as his last hope for marriage, he is now distraught. He needs a calm, helpful, thoughtful wife---give him Rachel!

Again, if your nickname is "Hurricane" you've earned it and you aren't changing.  

 

[Yeah No]

6 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Dude - they're married. How much more involved could he get? :)

Of course, but emotional involvement and the institution of marriage are two completely separate things and one does not guarantee or force the other.

6 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

She knows how he feels about her and it does hurt. I think they would be better off just addressing it head on. And even if they aren't in the same place now, how does that mean that he will never feel comfortable taking a risk with her?

At this point Ryan will never feel comfortable taking a risk with her because he is too far away from her emotionally speaking and has been spooked and pressured by knowing how far along she is.  Unless she backs off somewhat he will likely still feel too pressured to ever feel spontaneous about finding his "spark" for her.  Feelings can't be forced or even feel like they're forced and it takes being careful not to put too much pressure on someone, even subtle pressure to give them the space to feel them.  I know when I feel too pressured to make any kind of decision or know how I feel about something it works against me ever knowing how I actually feel.  I have to live into the answer.  And feeling like I am beholden to someone or under obligation or pressure to feel a certain way about someone will work against me ever knowing how I feel. 

Things she could do to help him find his feelings and not exert too much pressure are not always bring up how he feels about her, not always address things concerning "their relationship" head on, not constantly talk about how she feels about him, etc.  She should just keep on trying to enjoy his company and hope for the best with him.   Don't always act like everything is so heavy and important.  Lighten things up a little.  Personally I don't think there is much hope of him changing at this point because of his commitmentphobia but doing this will be the only way to help him change if there IS any chance at all.  It sounds counterintuitive to do this but dealing with another person's feelings is entering an irrational realm that doesn't always work according to logic and reason.  In some ways the old truism about letting something go and if it comes back to you it's yours applies here.

6 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Seriously - if everyone would just be honest (kindly and tactfully) the world would run so much easier. Instead it's all "well, I like him but I'm guessing maybe he's taking longer to get there so I'll pretend I don't like him as much as I really like him and we'll do that for awhile but then I have to be a little more interested because I might have gone too far and now he feels friend-zoned and blah, blah, blah." Call it playing hard to get or showing your hand too soon or whatever but there is a reason those are both metaphors in game playing. Romantic relationships aren't a hand of poker.

No romantic relationships aren't a hand of poker, but when dealing with the irrational world of people's feelings it often takes doing things that may feel uncomfortable or even calculated in order to give a person enough emotional space.  But it's not underhanded, manipulative or deceitful.  It's really respecting the other's feelings and giving them the space and time to process how they feel and perhaps reciprocate, not moving in too soon before they're ready to handle all of that.  That's not a hand of poker or pretending, that's respect and in the end you just might get what you wish for. 

You don't put all your fears, hopes, dreams, faults and emotions on the table before your love interest is ready to handle emotionally them.  That's just stupid and self-sabotaging.  You wouldn't want to hear all of that before you think you might care for a person.  You'd head for the hills, it's too much.  But after you've built up some feelings for them gradually you may be ready to hear those things and still be interested in them. There is absolutely NO reason to see this as manipulation or game playing AT ALL. 

Timing is everything in relationships.  You don't ask someone to marry you on the first date either, but of course this show makes them do that so they start off backwards which doesn't help!  And when a person is ready to handle those things varies with the person.  Ryan may never be ready to hear those things from Brett because of his own issues or because she's really just not for him, but she has to be sensitive enough to know where he's at before just laying it all on the table and risk pushing him even further away.

[gingerandcloves]

Jose is a complete and utter pr!ck, and Rachel needs to kick his butt to the curb.

I can see why Zack isn't willing to move on with Michaela after her outburst(s). It's one thing if you've invested some time in a relationship and everything has been relatively calm and stable, and one day your partner loses it over something - where it's definitely a one-off emotional outburst. You take a breather, discuss things when you've both calmed down, and hopefully apologies and forgiveness are exchanged, and you move on. You don't immediately throw the baby out with the bath water. But Z & M don't have any kind of history, for all he knows she is like this day in and day out. Normally people are on their best behavior for the first few months - so where does it go from here? I think Zack is trusting his gut on this one, and he doesn't envision a future with Michaela.

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, Lindz said:

No. She said, "I can't be your wife." That's final. What's he gunna say? "Yes. You can."? 😅 He wasn't giving her anything to work with and she just derived that he didn't care about her & wasn't sorry for what he said & did, so she seemingly ended the marriage and said she was moving out. There's nothing more to discuss after that. She could've tried establishing that boundary better by saying what you said, but didn't do it the right way. She switched to not trusting him & he used that opportunity to put it back on her for calling him the wrong name, which made no sense how that broke trust. They both decided what's sufficient for the other. She wrongly decided her apology was sufficient for him. I wonder what is. I doubt anything is. Maybe he's angry because she's not the perfect person he decided she was. He decided cursing at her, telling her to get out, & locking her out was sufficient for her. He doesn't even think that was wrong or bad. They definitely can't get past that. 😅

Yup, I think Rachel was basically saying, "Well, if that's how you feel then I can't be your wife", because in reality he gave her no other choice but to say that or to back down and accept all responsibility.  And I don't really think her response is what he wanted her to say but at that point he was just being spiteful and saving face by saying "OK".  He had gotten himself too far out on a limb to understand or care about the consequences at that point, but her response made him have to deal with them.  And good for her!

I personally don't think these two are over yet.  He will probably come back groveling somewhat and apologizing, and she may actually give him somewhat of a second chance but I personally don't know how they can ever really get past this.  It's almost like Michaela's ugly reaction being almost impossible to come back from.  I think both Michaela and José have some pretty deep issues that don't bode well for any long term relationship.  In the end I think they have both sabotaged themselves entirely from their marriages.  And they have no one to blame but themselves, but unconsciously they may have actually compulsively deliberately sabotaged their relationships.

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, After7Only said:

Michaela also didn’t show for the girls activity after the lock out.  She also threatened to cancel the housewarming,   and it feels like she does a lot fewer talking heads than everyone else.   I’m wondering if she’s having issues with production and is refusing to film.     Due to her lack of talking heads, her reaction to Zack seems disproportionate to what we’re seeing.   So she’s big mad because her temper scares Zack?  .    

I know I was wondering the same about Michaela.  Now she is turning up absent because she "isn't feeling well"?  She has done this before with the girls' get togethers although I can't pinpoint the exact times.  Plus there's the lack of talking heads.  And I wonder whether she is being difficult with production and if whatever we are not seeing is actually making her look better not worse.  Although I am fully aware that this show has a bad track record with making the women look nuts and/or difficult when it's really the men that are the problem.  In this case, though, based on what we saw from both of them I am kind of doubting that.  I still somehow doubt that the show is hiding any despicable stuff from Zack that would justify the crazy we saw from Michaela.

[NowVoyager]

My apologies. I'm waay behind on reading the comments this season. Also, my comments are a bit overall, rather than focused on this episode.

I couldn't be friends with Myrla. She's too negative, Debbie Downer about ev-er-y-thing. I don't get her issue with kissing, but it is her right to control her comfort level with how she shares her physical body. I'm glad she kissed him when she was ready. Unpopular opinion: Gil is nice-nasty. He constantly takes digs at her with a smile on his handsome face & a fake pleasant tone in his voice. An episode or two ago when he said he would invest his money in properties instead of Myrla's shoes, fine dining & trips? .....*crickets*...... Ok, what property portfolio, Gil!? He's too cheap for me. & he's a pot-stirrer. He stay messy. He would be a great husband on a Real Housewives show. Not gonna lie, fine as he is, I would have been put it on him tho. Just saying.

Brett is soo pretty to me. Her eyes, porcelain skin, lips--- the red hair color could be toned down a bit for my taste, but I like the idea of it--- & her personality! Ryan has serial killer eyes. He scares me. How is he supposedly pulling & throwing away all these "model types!?" He doesn't like Brett because she isn't skinny. Period. He barely makes eye contact with her, but he ogles her boobs. Creepy.

Michaela is a hawt mess, clearly, but Zach is emotionally immature. He's a perfectionist. If you ever make a mistake with him, he can never let it go. For someone who grew up in a two parent household his whole life, he doesn't seem to understand the basics of conflict resolution. When people mess up--- & we all will--- once they understand & acknowledge & apologize for their fault, give them the grace of acceptance, at least short term.

Johnny is a playa who didn't like Bao until he hit it. Go Bao! But it's not going to last.

Jose wants a real live doll wife that he can hold up as a trophy, along with his other accomplishments, like owning a house. Locking her out was rrreal "Sleeping with the Enemy." Out of this whole motley crew, she's the one who most needs to RUN!

 

[Lindz]

At the reunion, Michaela will probably be like, "At least I didn't lock out my husband." They should have a hot mess segment & show these 2 acting like fools. José takes the psycho cake for his antics now. 😅😂

[Lindz]

José & Rachel obviously didn't love each other. How can you love someone without knowing them that well? Luckily for Rachel she didn't, which made it easy for her to leave. Seemed like he tried using that statement to reel her back in in his text to her before he met up with the guys. I hope it doesn't work.

[Starlight925]

Watching Jose tell the story from his perspective, it's so obvious that Rachel is a horrible person.  Calling him by another man's name, storming out like that.  

Until....until we see actual camera footage of him cussing and screaming at her.

Until....we see that he locked her out of the apartment, for the whole night.

Until....we see that the name she said was Johnny.  His BFF.  Not in a passionate moment, just a casual moment.

Who among us hasn't called someone by the wrong name?  Heck, I've done it to my sister, my friends, a million times.  Hey Shannon!  I mean Mary!  Sorry!  Laugh, move on.  Jeez.

Jose is nuts.  Others have said Sleeping With the Enemy nuts.  I concur.

Rachel, girl......out, please.  

Also, we never find out where Rachel actually spent the night.  Apparently, she knocked on everyone's doors, but no one answered.  Are they even staying there? 

We know she didn't even have her phone.  A huge building like that would have a concierge, so hopefully, she was able to get into an empty apartment, or that production helped her, or something.

What a mess.  Please, please, don't give up your life and move into his sorry house in Pearland.  Yeah, I know the house.  It's nothing great.

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by Starlight925

[Gator Stud]

14 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

But my point was that Zack thinks people are who they are (apparently at the moment he meets them) and cannot change. Period.

Sorry; I'm repeating myself! 

FTR, I think Zack is probably right about Michaela. And thus, having regarded "MAFS" as his last hope for marriage, he is now distraught. He needs a calm, helpful, thoughtful wife---give him Rachel!

Some things you just cant unsee. Is Zack supposed to forget that his wife is a hurricane with a bad temper.  If he was in love with her, I could see him supporting her seeing a shrink.  But he is not in love with her. Its not his job to fix Michaela. She is too much hard work. And who needs the stress?  I dont understand why Zack cries so much.  Nothing wrong with crying, but its like every other episode. 

[Gator Stud]

13 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

They yell and they say things they regret. But deliberately locking your spouse out of the house in the middle of the night is abusive.

This was a bridge too far.  I've had arguments with my ex and at times she was really shitty towards me, but I have never locked her out. Can you imagine what he would do to her if she binged out on her credit cards?

[Starlight925]

15 minutes ago, Gator Stud said:

Some things you just cant unsee. Is Zack supposed to forget that his wife is a hurricane with a bad temper.  If he was in love with her, I could see him supporting her seeing a shrink.  But he is not in love with her. Its not his job to fix Michaela. She is too much hard work. And who needs the stress?  I dont understand why Zack cries so much.  Nothing wrong with crying, but its like every other episode. 

 

11 minutes ago, Gator Stud said:

This was a bridge too far.  I've had arguments with my ex and at times she was really shitty towards me, but I have never locked her out. Can you imagine what he would do to her if she binged out on her credit cards?

Agree on both posts!

The thing about Michaela's slamming-the-Clorox-wipes, packing-bags freakout is that they had actually discussed Zach's early departure the night before!  Michaela had told him that she despises being woken up.  Their dogs weren't getting along, so Zach quietly left in the morning to take HIS dog to daycare, so as not to disturb her and her dog.  They had discussed this!  Furthermore, Zach DID text Michaela to let her know that he had gone, and she texted back!  So her freakout was completely out of line.

Jose is simply an abusive, scary man.  The difference in Jose/Rachel vs. Zach/Michaela is, simply, that Jose could physically overpower Rachel and cause physical harm.  

I tried to glue together a relationship where I saw extreme anger outbursts early on.  Followed by "oh baby, I love you so much".  Followed by extreme anger.  It simply is who that person is.  In my case, he was so "devastated" by my leaving that he sought therapy after I left.  Followed by him getting actually lifetime banned from a particular NFL stadium for an angry outburst that occurred after I was gone.  So yeah, Zach & Rachel, it doesn't get better.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Starlight925

[Retired at last]

On 9/25/2021 at 7:48 AM, Gator Stud said:

Can you imagine what he would do to her if she binged out on her credit cards?

LOL - or ERASED his white board????? That's what I would do as the ultimate revenge.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Retired at last

[Kiss my mutt]

1 hour ago, Retired at last said:

LOL - or ERASED his white board????? That's what I would so as the ultimate revenge.

Ha! I would pay good money to watch this act of defiance before she leaves him and then seeing his face when he walks in to find her gone and his white board erased.  Even better would be writing some choice words on it instead. 

[Crashcourse]

12 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Although I am fully aware that this show has a bad track record with making the women look nuts and/or difficult when it's really the men that are the problem. 

That's funny because from what I've seen over the past seasons, it's the mostly men who've been shown to be crazy/must be gay/difficult.

[Boo Boo]

4 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

That's funny because from what I've seen over the past seasons, it's the mostly men who've been shown to be crazy/must be gay/difficult.

Exactly.

 

[Crashcourse]

12 hours ago, NowVoyager said:

Unpopular opinion: Gil is nice-nasty. He constantly takes digs at her with a smile on his handsome face & a fake pleasant tone in his voice. An episode or two ago when he said he would invest his money in properties instead of Myrla's shoes, fine dining & trips? .....*crickets*...... Ok, what property portfolio, Gil!? He's too cheap for me. & he's a pot-stirrer. He stay messy. He would be a great husband on a Real Housewives show. Not gonna lie, fine as he is, I would have been put it on him tho. Just saying.

I agree with everything here.  He is nice-nasty and a pot-stirrer.  I would hit it and bounce though.

[Stinamaia]

19 hours ago, Lindz said:

I hate that people are entitled to their feelings, no matter how stupid or wrong. I can't validate José's issue with being called the wrong name. It was not said maliciously. It's disturbing that people can take minor mistakes as personal attacks. From their own spouse, no less! It's unhealthy. They need help! 😅 They need to take a long, hard look at themselves & find out why they get so upset and react so badly.

 

As Zach would say, it’s not that he was upset, but how he handled being upset. 

[buttersister]

Quote

I think she resorted to that too fast, but it's probably for the best. 

Amen. If it were me, I’d never be alone with him again. Film me at my place, Show. And be glad I signed something that prohibits me spilling all the tea. Cue Zach.

[endure]

My apologies if this has already been brought up, anyone else think Jose and Johnny should have been matched?

[ChiMama]

On 9/23/2021 at 4:39 AM, Yeah No said:

She is acting like she is taking responsibility for it, but all I see is someone that is used to using false apologies to make it look like the other person is in the wrong for not accepting them, when maybe what she did was bad enough to warrant the person having trouble accepting them.  Of course this was waaaay over Viviana's head. 

Michaela showed a glimmer of her true personality very early on by making Zack’s covid diagnosis all about how unfair it was to HER and how it sucked for HER, then flew back to Houston vs. staying on the honeymoon, get to know the other couples, leave treats at Zack’s door, sit on separate balconies and talk at a social distance, etc. Bratty and entitled and prone to short-sighted selfish decision-making. 

[ChiMama]

On 9/23/2021 at 10:48 AM, Retired at last said:

That makes me wish I had ignored my "NO JAMIE OTIS in my house. Ever." rule and watched it.

You also missed a hilarious tidbit from Ryan about the male half of the “tantric team” 😂🤣😳

Edited September 26, 2021 by ChiMama

[ChiMama]

On 9/23/2021 at 10:48 AM, Retired at last said:

Also, I am glad that Bao and Johnny are getting along. But, it was very uncomfortable to me to watch their sex assignments. Too much!

I kinda found it cringey - like watching two awkward, groping teenagers. And, fwiw, Johnny has no butt. 

[Lindz]

Ain't it interesting how the two people that built up their spouse to be "perfect" are the same two that freaked out at those "perfect" spouses?? 😅 I wonder what that has to do with their over reactions. 🤔 I believe Michaela can change, but needs to look deeper to stop acting crazy. José looks like a lost cause since he believes his words & actions were okay.

[Yeah No]

20 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

That's funny because from what I've seen over the past seasons, it's the mostly men who've been shown to be crazy/must be gay/difficult.

This has actually been talked about on previous seasons threads.  It is mostly true of earlier seasons.  I think in recent seasons an effort has been made not to make the women look to blame for their husband's bad behavior. 

To start, Sheila is one of the big ones that comes to mind.  She was made to look like a difficult shrew meanwhile her husband Nate was really a player but the show didn't depict him realistically. 

There was also Heather and Derek.  She had good reason being a flight attendant not to want to be paired up with a pothead given the legality issue at the time plus the rules of her job, but the show made her look like the difficult shrew and sanitized his image to look like all he did was smoke cigarettes.  Thanks to his more forgiving edit, some of the audience sided with him but others (like myself) were not fooled.

Ashley and David were another example.  Ashley correctly ID-ed David as an asshole early on and checked out for the rest of the season.  She was shown acting aloof and checking her cell phone all the time.  He was putting on an act in his talking heads like he was all-in on the process and was doing his best.  Plus his scenes were all edited to make him look good, while Ashley's were not.  A lot of the audience bought into the image and hated Ashley.  It wasn't until later on when stuff came out about David and he went on another spin off of MAFS and showed his true nature that opinion started to turn around on him.  

To greater or lesser degrees some other women were probably made to look worse like Amber of the Dave/Amber couple and Olivia of the Olivia/Brett couple and Davina of the Davina/Sean couple.  Even though their husbands were complete douches there were enough people in the audience seeing enough of a negative spin on the women to dislike them more than the men!  I think the show hyped up trivial stuff that wasn't really that bad and made it look much worse.  Like Amber might have had a relationship with someone at the gym that Dave knew.  Or Olivia wanted to eat out and travel.  Or Davina was some kind of "princess" who thought she was all that.  Stupid stuff that was probably not true but enough to make the women look bad undeservedly.  Note that I have left out women that were really that bad like Sam, Mia and Iris.   I know I may have forgotten some...

This is not exclusive to the US version either.  This article in the Daily Mail says the producers of the UK version make the women look crazy and spare the men a bad edit.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Yeah No

[Cancun]

14 hours ago, ChiMama said:

You also missed a hilarious tidbit from Ryan about the male half of the “tantric team” 😂🤣😳

Indeed.  His “tidbit” was right there on the floor! 🤣🤣😲

[pdlinda]

6 hours ago, Lindz said:

I believe Michaela can change, but needs to look deeper to stop acting crazy. José looks like a lost cause since he believes his words & actions were okay.

IF (and that's a big "IF") either (or both) of these individuals believe each has a problem that needs to be addressed and professional help is required (I said the same thing about Virginia last season), then professional "help" will be gotten and, hopefully, positive changes will be made.  

If not, relationship after relationship will fail because neither Michaela nor Jose are healthy enough to sustain a viable marriage.

My concern is the exposure both have gotten on national (international) TV regarding their disturbing behaviors.  It's all on the internet in perpetuity.  That's particularly true for Jose who was presented as having a high-level position at NASA.

[StatisticalOutlier]

8 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

To which Myrla will reply, "You'll always have Hype."

I have to say that, like Myrla, Hype is surprising me.  He seems to be pretty mellow.  I still wouldn't want to have to take him for a walk and pick up his shit, or deal with his hair or slobber, but if I had to be in an apartment all day long working, from what I see, he's not a bad one to coexist with.  Haven't heard him bark once.

[Auntie Anxiety]

1 hour ago, pdlinda said:

My concern is the exposure both have gotten on national (international) TV regarding their disturbing behaviors.  It's all on the internet in perpetuity.  That's particularly true for Jose who was presented as having a high-level position at NASA.

Eh, you live by the desire to be on tv sword, you die by the sword. No one forced these people to put their lives on a television screen. Not sure why anyone at this point, knowing how reality tv shows exploit you, would even consider being a part of it. The money isn’t worth the ignominy.

[buttersister]

53 minutes ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

That's particularly true for Jose who was presented as having a high-level position at NASA.

I can't wait to hear what  happens next in the space exploration business HR office. I was going to say, Jose let it all hang out, but 1) don't know if that's true, there could be more/worse and 2) He was being filmed and couldn't control himself?! Then we watched him lie his ass off (or demonstrate delusional behavior) in reporting details to his fellow groomtestants (colleagues). Would that be a first for this show? Job resignation/firing happens after FB and Twitter outbursts.

[Auntie Anxiety]

39 minutes ago, buttersister said:

Jose let it all hang out, but 1) don't know if that's true, there could be more/worse and 2) He was being filmed and couldn't control himself?!

3) The producer told him to amp up the drama, so what you see on the screen wasn’t really him? (Isn’t that the excuse they all use when called out on their behavior?)

Edited September 26, 2021 by Auntie Anxiety

[Chatty Cake]

I am so disappointed in Jose. What a douche. I was one of his only fans but he messed that up by the way he flew off the handle. I was thinking she had called him the wrong name in bed but in the clubhouse? Clearly a slip of the tongue. 
The white board is at his house right? If it had been at the apartment I would have packed up when he was at work and wrote Go F Yourself on the white board. I’m glad that the other guys called Jose out on his crap.

I predict Ryan is going to go thru the motions until decision day.

I hope Johnny is being real with his feelings for Bao. They seemed to have made some progress.

[Lindz]

Zack lost control with that breakdown. Not just the crying, but yelling at her not to touch him, like a physically abused spouse. Too much. Guess it all was too much & feeling like he hurt her & couldn't do the marriage broke the camel's back. Poor thing. Unfortunate. He really needed to be alone to figure that out and regulate his emotions. He wasn't in the right state for Michaela to interact with. He separated himself, but should've told her he needed space & and went to another room.

[Vanderboom]

On 9/25/2021 at 11:23 AM, Retired at last said:

LOL - or ERASED his white board????? That's what I would do as the ultimate revenge.

LOL  Or change some of the numbers around. In earlier episodes, Rachel struck me as a survivor of a few toxic relationships. I'm glad she found the fortitude to tell Jose that she won't put up with his disrespect; I hope she's not getting pressure from production to make it work. Zach shouldn't feel obligated to go through the motions with Michaela, either. It looks as if she hulks out again, proving Zach's point that this temper is a feature of her personality, not a bug--no matter how many times she apologizes.

I wonder if Gil will still pick at Myrla as much now that they've taken some steps to be more intimate.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

The white board is at his house right? If it had been at the apartment I would have packed up when he was at work and wrote Go F Yourself on the white board. I’m glad that the other guys called Jose out on his crap.

He had it at the apartment for the housewarming so I guess he packed it up and brought it with him.

[Lindz]

When Dr. Viv asked Johnny about having vanilla sex, he seemed mighty pleased to be getting what he wanted. Then Bao said they could have variety. 😅 I doubt he'll go along with that & prolly judge her.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Lindz