S01.E02: What If...T'Challa Became a Star-Lord?

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

The rough-and-tumble space pirates known as the Ravagers abduct T’Challa instead of Peter Quill.

Dropping Wednesday, August 18, 2021. 

[arc]

Wow, Thanos as a Ravager!

The episode was a pretty decent riff on the classic double or triple cross heist trope. I was shocked at how good the soundalike voice actors were for Nebula and Thanos and then in the credits I saw they actually were Karen Gillan and Josh Brolin.

I guess with the alternate Star-Lord that he never formed a GOTG group with Gamora and Drax and Rocket and Mantis and Groot.

[paigow]

No dance off with Ronan... 😢😞

[Sakura12]

This one was a completely different story. T'Challa managed to turn most the villians to good side. Although I'm wondering where Gamora was if Nebula and Thanos were with the Ravengers. Also were they implying that Nebula and T'Challa had a thing. And I thought she was Mystique when she first showed up. Lol

They actually has all the original actors back for their roles. R.I.P Chadwick Boseman. 

[Spartan Girl]

This was much better than last week! Oh I miss Chadwick Boseman, but he gave us a great final gift.

Okay, why am I not surprised that this alternate Peter Quill wound up as a Dairy Queen worker in Missouri? At least until Ego came looking for him. Yikes, does that mean without his found Guardians family he would have helped Ego take over/destroy the galaxy? Unless the Ravagers stopped them.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[paigow]

Ego swallowed some magic embers and turned into broccoli...

[tv echo]

Heartbreaking to hear Chadwick Boseman's voice.

Enjoyable episode, but its premise is questionable. While it was very believable that Yondu's inept subordinates would kidnap the wrong kid, I found it difficult to believe that Thanos reformed, gave up his big plan to destroy half the universe and joined the Ravagers, simply because he was persuaded by T'Challa's words. Also questionable that the Collector apparently defeated Hela and Surtur, but is unable to defeat Yondu and T'Challa.

I also found Korath's constant fawning over T'Challa as Star Lord kinda demeaning to that character.

However, the heist plot was a lot of fun to watch. Interesting twist on Nebula. Her triple cross plan with T'Challa was great.

T'Challa's forgiveness of Yondu's lie was too quick and easy. He was separated from his family and home for 20 years. He should have been furious with Yondu. Even if T'Challa had said that he wanted to be a explorer, he was just a kid at the time. Nevertheless, T'Challa's reunion with his family was very moving.

Question mark: What happened to Gamora? 

Returning talent: Chadwick Boseman, Michael Rooker, Karen Gillan, Josh Brolin, Djimon Hounsou, Benicio Del Toro, Sean Gunn, Danai Gurai, John Kani, Chris Sullivan, Carrie Coon, Tom Vaughan-Lawlor, Ophelia Ovibond and Kurt Russell.

Sound-alikes: Brian T. Delaney (as Peter Quill) and Fred Tatasciore (as Drax).

Edited August 18, 2021 by tv echo

[Anduin]

Good episode, but yeah. Why did Thanos even listen to T'Challa in the first place? Also, while Jeffery Wright is a fine actor, his voice is too normal for the Watcher. The Watchers are supposed to be some omniscient cosmic beings! They shouldn't sound like just some regular person. And yes, I've always had the same problem with Thanos too. He sounds too normal.

[paigow]

45 minutes ago, Anduin said:

Also, while Jeffery Wright is a fine actor, his voice is too normal for the Watcher. And yes, I've always had the same problem with Thanos too.

Maybe there is a Tom Hardy Bane variant of Thanos...

[AimingforYoko]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

Also were they implying that Nebula and T'Challa had a thing.

While I enjoyed Karen Gillan as Femme Fatale Nebula, "Cha-Cha"? Nah.

I wonder what became of Gamora?

 

[Racj82]

We don't know if in this time-line Thanos ever even went to Gamora's planet. She wouldn't be with him if he never went there. Potentially, she would be just another person in the galaxy like Drax. 

We also don't know how early on in Thanos crusade T'Challa met Thanos. If early enough, he may have had time to reason with him. I'm sure very few people had the chance in our time-line to actually talk him out.

People also complain all the time about punchy punchy conflict and resolutions. What if...that wasn't the case this time?

I don't really understand any critique of Wrights voice over. Just feels like nitpicking in that case. He's bring gravitas to the performance. We need to be able to clearly hear him.

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

I also found Korath's constant fawning over T'Challa as Star Lord kinda demeaning to that character.

Demeaning to who? Who cares about that character? Also, it reminds me of Coming to America and how people from Prince Akeem's country still worshiped him even while running into him in America.

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Enjoyable episode, but its premise is questionable. While it was very believable that Yondu's inept subordinates would kidnap the wrong kid, I found it difficult to believe that Thanos reformed, gave up his big plan to destroy half the universe and joined the Ravagers, simply because he was persuaded by T'Challa's words. Also questionable that the Collector apparently defeated Hela and Surtur, but is unable to defeat Yondu and T'Challa.

They didn't defeat him. They outsmarted him...with help from the inside. It's not like they killed him and they would have lost without the woman's help.

I have no qualms with Captain Carter but this was tons of fun on a different level. Great stuff.

My heart sank at the end though. I legitimately wasn't think about the fact that Chadwick was no longer with us until the text at the end. Rest in Peace.

[phalange]

Thanos becoming a Ravager is an interesting twist. I don't know that he would be so easily convinced just by having T'Challa talk sense into him, but I suppose he hasn't totally changed considering he's still proud of his idea. I like this version of Nebula and her plan to outsmart the Collector and the sorta flirty thing she and T'Challa have going on. I wonder what happened to this version of Gamora. Maybe she didn't want to be tied to the Ravagers and just went off to do her own thing. Perhaps she still meets up with Rocket and Groot somehow.

It's nice that T'Challa got to go home and be reunited with his family again and introduce them to his space family. I do agree that he forgave Yondu a little quick, though. 

Even with Thanos no longer planning to wipe out half the universe, there's Ego to take his place, so the galaxy is screwed anyway. 

[Sakura12]

I think this one also worked better for me because these actors seemed much more comfortable doing voice work. 

 

[thuganomics85]

Maybe it's because I felt like Korath was always a waste of Djimon Hounsou's talents in the films, but I actually quite liked T'Challa Fanboy Korath here.  If nothing else, Djimon seemed to be having fun being more comedic here, since he's usually either playing serious mentor-like characters or harden villains.

So, in this universe, Star Lord is T'Challa instead of Peter Quill, because Yondu foolishly outsources the mission to those knuckleheads, Kraglin and Taserface, heh.  And since T'Challa is so damn noble, he not only basically turns the Ravengers into the Robin Leach... err, Robin Hood and the Merry Men of the galaxy, but even somehow convinced Thanos to drop the whole genocide thing and join the gang.  Yep, that checks out!  Although Thanos sure seems proud of that idea still...

Never knew how much I wanted a Femme Fatale Nebula flirting with T'Challa until now.  Karen Gillan is always a delight.

The Collector certainly seemed to have an impressive collection here: including Hera's helmet and Captain America's shield...

Surprised they got so many of the regular actors here this go around, although it did make it more noticeable that Peter and Drax weren't Chris Pratt and Dave Bautista.

Speaking of Peter, not being Star Lord means he might actually team up with Ego?!

Great episode, even if it's another reminder that we lost Chadwick Boseman way, way, way too soon.

[Jediknight]

"Until we find you, in this plane, or the next."

All the feelings at that line.

[arc]

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

I found it difficult to believe that Thanos reformed, gave up his big plan to destroy half the universe and joined the Ravagers, simply because he was persuaded by T'Challa's words.

His plan was always tremendously stupid. Real world Earth itself had half its human population only like less than fifty years ago. Assuming the MCU universe is largely all nearly the same as Earth in that respect, Thanos’ plan would have bought the universe about fifty years of time before getting back to the same level of overcrowding and resource scarcity. At least in the comics Thanos did it to impress Lady Death, not save the remaining half of the universe.

Considering Nebula had hair, Thanos must’ve given up his plan a good while ago. (And thus never got nearly as far in converting her into a cyborg.) It would explain why he apparently never abducted/adopted Gamora.

The Ravagers joking about having beat up/scammed a Skrull didn’t sit right with me knowing what we know about their oppression at the hands of the Kree.

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

The Collector certainly seemed to have an impressive collection here: including Hera's helmet and Captain America's shield...

Interestingly, it wasn’t Captain Carter’s shield.

as for the premise of this What If, while the general idea that aliens would certainly think all humans look alike is plausible, it’s less plausible that entirely human-looking aliens like Kraglin would make that mistake.

[Kasienka]

 For most of the episode I just felt so sorry for Peter Quill, since T'Challa turned out to be a superior version of Star Lord. Better relationship with Yondu, converting villains to his side , saving universe from The Snap before it even happened , actually becoming a name known in the Galaxy. 

 Until Ego showed up it looked like that was actually a much better reality than main MCU.

Still enjoyed Nebula and Father/Son relationship with Yondu and T'Challa though. 

One thing I don't get. Peter chose the name Star Lord, cause that's how his mother called him. Why would T'Challa call himself that?

Edited August 18, 2021 by Kasienka

[Cobalt Stargazer]

25 minutes ago, Kasienka said:

 For most of the episode I just felt so sorry for Peter Quill, since T'Challa turned out to be a superior version of Star Lord. Better relationship with Yondu, converting villains to his side , saving universe from The Snap before it even happened , actually becoming a name known in the Galaxy.

That was my thought as well. "Wow, this version of Starlord is respected. Even admired. I guess Yondu didn't spend years threatening to eat him. That has to make a difference."

[Spartan Girl]

Just to clarify: Nebula really is Thanos’ daughter? She wasn’t kidnapped from another family like Gamora was?

[Anduin]

23 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Just to clarify: Nebula really is Thanos’ daughter? She wasn’t kidnapped from another family like Gamora was?

No. She mentions a couple of times that she's adopted.

[calliope1975]

I really liked it. More so because of what's been lost with Chadwick's passing, but I also liked how different is was to the OG GOTG. It was great to hear so many familiar voices - honestly, I didn't expect Josh Brolin to be game for this, not sure why. And I liked that he still believed it was a decent plan and kept telling people about it. 

I think my fave part, though, is I'm guessing that the creatives wrote this story of T'Challa inspiring everyone in the universe, even the Mad Titan himself, without knowing what would happen with Chadwick. But he knew, and he gave us one last gift.

 

[Spartan Girl]

14 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Just to clarify: Nebula really is Thanos’ daughter? She wasn’t kidnapped from another family like Gamora was?

That’s what I thought.

My take on why T’Challa was a better Star-Lord than Peter? T’Challa had a more privileged, educated upbringing in Wakanda and thus was more mature for his age. Peter didn’t have the opportunity to grow past being a man child—and that’s not all on Yondu, having to deal with his mom’s cancer and getting picked on for not having a father. Plus, Missouri ain’t Wakanda.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[Starfish35]

Quite a lot better than last week.  When it first started, I thought it was going to be just GOTG with T’Challa instead of Peter, but it diverged pretty quickly (and hilariously).   I actually loved fanboy Korath.  And I’m really not a fan of Peter Quill, so I kind of enjoy T’Challa being so much more competent of a Star Lord. (Although, yes, where did the name come from?)  T’Challa did forgive Yondu pretty quickly, but it’s a 30 minute episode, so I can forgive that. 

I’m assuming Gamora isn’t here because T’Challa talked Thanos down before he conquered her planet.  I don’t know about Rocket though.  

It’s so good, yet bittersweet, to hear Chadwick Boseman as T’Challa again. 😢

[Cobalt Stargazer]

43 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

That’s what I thought.

My take on why T’Challah was a better Star-Lord than Peter? T’Challah had a more privileged, educated upbringing in Wakanda and thus was more mature for his age. Peter didn’t have the opportunity to grow past being a man child—and that’s not all on Yondu, having to deal with his mom’s cancer and getting picked on for not having a father. Plus, Missouri ain’t Wakanda.

This is also true. As a prince, T'challa would have had responsibilities regarding learning to be a king. Statecraft, economics, what have you. As advanced - and as isolated - as Wakanda is, a country doesn't run itself. Yondu was a pretty terrible role model even here, since despite how quickly he was forgiven he still lied to T'Challa for a long time, but not all of Peter's jerk qualities are his fault.

[festivus]

Now this one was really great. Loved getting to hear Chadwick again and the story was completely different. It was weird seeing Thanos as a good guy though. Kraglin always cracks me. Love that they rescued Space Dog, I knew they would. And he was getting pets by Thanos, lol. Lots of good stuff in this one.

[johntfs]

9 hours ago, phalange said:

Thanos becoming a Ravager is an interesting twist. I don't know that he would be so easily convinced just by having T'Challa talk sense into him, but I suppose he hasn't totally changed considering he's still proud of his idea. I like this version of Nebula and her plan to outsmart the Collector and the sorta flirty thing she and T'Challa have going on. I wonder what happened to this version of Gamora. Maybe she didn't want to be tied to the Ravagers and just went off to do her own thing. Perhaps she still meets up with Rocket and Groot somehow.

It's nice that T'Challa got to go home and be reunited with his family again and introduce them to his space family. I do agree that he forgave Yondu a little quick, though. 

Even with Thanos no longer planning to wipe out half the universe, there's Ego to take his place, so the galaxy is screwed anyway. 

Unless that inspires Thanos to take on a heroic quest... for the Infinity Stones so the "screwing" can be undone...

[formerlyfreedom]

I really enjoyed this episode, especially Thanos’ justification of his genocidal plan as ‘efficient’ and ‘random’. Thanos as a good guy grew on me!

[Zuleikha]

I don't think it makes much sense that T'Challa would talk down Thanos, but I don't care. It was a fun and unexpected twist.

Also, I've always felt bad for Carina, who seemed to have a crappy life and a crappy death. I'm glad she got a better ending in another branch of the multiverse.

I liked the Wakanda twist because of how in character it was for Yondu, but I also liked the idea of it being destroyed as the price for the otherwise much better version of reality. OTOH, it sounds like Quill/Ego may destroy the world so there may be a price. I suppose it's fair for some branches to just be better.
 

[Chicago Redshirt]

7 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

And I’m really not a fan of Peter Quill, so I kind of enjoy T’Challa being so much more competent of a Star Lord. (Although, yes, where did the name come from?)  

Cha-cha is royalty so it still fits, even though Star-Prince or Star-King (since he thought Wakanda and presumably his dad were killed) might be more appropriate.

Or it could be that since he has been developing a reputation, one of the grateful people in the galaxy he guards gave the name to him. Maybe even Korath when he was writing fanfic. :)

[tkc]

While it didn’t get an on-screen mention, as the Ravagers’ ship lifts off from Morag at 5:56 you can read the name on the hull: MANDELA.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marvelcinematicuniverse/images/5/5d/Mandela.png/

Edited August 20, 2021 by tkc

[Perfect Xero]

So it was lovely to hear Chadwick portray T'Challa again, and the opening Star Lord turn was pretty funny, and that's the extent of what I have to say that I thought was good about this one:

We have the continued lionization of Yondu, who again kidnapped a child and this time lied to him about the death of his entire nation to keep him from going how to his family that was looking for him.

At least in the case of Peter you could argue that Ego being on the lookout for him gave some justification to Yondu not returning Peter to his family, but with T'Challa he was just 100% being a selfish prick.

T'Challa, at least, apparently didn't suffer the years of threats of being eaten at the hands of Yondu and his crew that Peter did, possibly because he'd already at least begun training in how to fight and be a future Black Panther and wasn't just a scared kid like Peter who was an easy target.

Then we also have "good guy" Thanos, who was still someone who killed, literally, billions of beings and kidnapped children and abused/trained them into being weapons getting the "gee whiz why won't Nebula give her poor kidnapper/abuser dad a chance" story, which resolves with him fighting some of the other children he kidnapped and abused into being weapons after wiping out half their peoples.

[benteen]

Great episode.  This definitely feels like Classic What if.  It was a fun and epic story. 

It was great to hear Chadwick Boseman again and he remains deeply missed.  Thanos was a surprise but a welcome one.  The whole Captain Genocide thing and him still defending his plan was hilarious.  I was hoping Howard would join the team at the end too and Nebula/Karen Gillan continues to be an MVP of the MCU.  The guy voicing Drax sounded a lot like Bautista.  Fun Robin Leach joke.

I agree that T'Challa forgave Yondu far too quickly and it looks like his family did too but you only have so time.  Nice TZ ending with Ego and Peter to show that everything didn't work out for the better.   This episode set a very high bar for future episodes of this series.

Edited August 23, 2021 by benteen

[paigow]

23 hours ago, tv echo said:

Also questionable that the Collector apparently defeated Hela and Surtur, but is unable to defeat Yondu and T'Challa.

Maybe Ragnarok had already occurred and he bought the antler helmet as salvage... 

[ursula]

One thing I’ve noticed people ask is that Thanos still removed Nebula’s eye but I don’t think that’s what happened. He was replacing her organs with implants every time she lost to Gamora but in this reality, Thanos never “adopted” Gamora. This reality’s Nebula just lost her eye in some other way. (They seemed to imply it was from working with/for the Collector).

 

The Star Lord moniker makes sense for T’Challa because he’s actually royalty who’s living in the stars. It’s supposed to be a parallel universe coincidence that Yondu adopted 2 human boys that took the same code name. 😉

6 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

which resolves with him fighting some of the other children he kidnapped and abused into being weapons after wiping out half their peoples.

In this reality, Thanos didn’t  even know those people. Looks like they were destined to be some Big Band’s minions in both realities.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by ursula

[tv echo]

In order for T'Challa's persuasive talk with Thanos to have taken place before Thanos kidnapped Gamora (and destroyed her people), Gamora's species must age more quickly than humans. Gamora was snatched as a young child. Peter Quill and, by mistake in this reality, T'Challa were snatched as young children. By the time Gamora and Peter meet, they're both in their 20's (iirc). So, if humans and Gamora's species aged at the same rate, when would T'Challa have had the opportunity to meet and talk to Thanos before Thanos snatched Gamora?

I don't know why, but I always got the sense that Gamora was snatched way before Peter was snatched.

Edited August 19, 2021 by tv echo

[Chicago Redshirt]

39 minutes ago, tv echo said:

In order for T'Challa's persuasive talk with Thanos to have taken place before Thanos kidnapped Gamora (and destroyed her people), Gamora's species must age more quickly than humans. Gamora was snatched as a young child. Peter Quill and, by mistake in this reality, T'Challa were snatched as young children. By the time Gamora and Peter meet, they're both in their 20's (iirc). So, if humans and Gamora's species aged at the same rate, when would T'Challa have had the opportunity to meet and talk to Thanos before Thanos snatched Gamora?

I don't know why, but I always got the sense that Gamora was snatched way before Peter was snatched.

Let's assume that Gamora's people mature roughly at the same rate as humans.

Main MCU Gamora was seemingly adopted at the age of 4-8. 

What If? T'Challa was abducted at what I would put as the age of 8-12.

But MCU Gamora isn't necessarily the same age as either version of T'Challa (though their actors might have been close in age.

So it might be that What If? T'Challa first encountered Thanos shortly after his abduction and was already able to convince him genocide was no bueno. Or it could be that T'Challa's good deeds and influence caused a series of other shifts, which eventually led Thanos to make different decisions about which planets he genocided, leaving out Gamora's planet. 

 

 

[Zuleikha]

Quote

But MCU Gamora isn't necessarily the same age as either version of T'Challa (though their actors might have been close in age.

I'm not following the logic. T'Challa/Quill are early 20s. Gamora's clearly a young adult when she meets Quill in the MCU. Even if she's not exactly the same age, that still doesn't give much of a gap for T'Challa to influence events in the multiverse branch to save Gamora's people. If I crunched things right in my head, the most generous scenario still has T'Challa talking down Thanos in T'Challa's early teens.

Which I'm willing to buy for sake of a fun episode, but it seems more like something the writers wanted to make happen for fun then a well-thought through look at how timelines could have changed. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Zuleikha

[swanpride]

That was slightly better than the last one, but it didn't really work either. I mean, yeah, it was kind of fun to imagine that T'Challa would turn the world around, but none of it made sense. Not that Yondu would keep T'Challa after kidnapping the wrong child, not that T'Challa would be some sort of messias, not that Thanos turned around...though I guess I could have lived with all this nonsense just for the fun to have Korvath (or however he is called) fanboying and Thanos being through and through weird. 

But what angered me was that the female characters got the short stick AGAIN!!!! I mean, who cares about Gamora, Shuri or Mantis, right? And what they did to Nebula...what the hell was the nonsense with the blonde hair? And I think I heard Lindsey Ellis screaming in anger from afar when they got to the "you have to forgive Thanos" subplot. No, just no!!!! Even if he changed, it wouldn't change what he did to HER! Nobody should push anyone into forgiving an abuser, EVER! 

[Starfish35]

I admit I hadn’t thought through the timeline as to whether T’Challa could have met Thanos before Thanos destroyed Gamora’s planet.

I know the conceit of the show is supposed to be that one decision breaks it away from our main MCU ‘verse, but…I’m not sure that totally holds water.  For example, what could T’Challa possibly have to do with the Collector having Captain America’s shield?    It seems that the universe was already a bit different than our own.  🤷🏻‍♀️ That’s a lot of handwaving, though, I know.

[tennisgurl]

Here I was feeling pretty bad for Peter, seeing as how we kept getting shown how, in this universe, everything in the galaxy just seems to be all around better without him being in space, being replaced by a far superior Star Lord. He's actually respected around the galaxy, he's effortlessly cool, a hero to millions, turns every bad guy good or else easily defeats them, has a million times better a relationship with Yondu, has a thing with the now much more sexy and less angry Nebula (Star-Lords and daughters of Thanos just go together no matter the universe) stopped the Snappening before it even happened just by explaining to Thanos that his plan was stupid and bad (and also genocide...yes Thanos really), everything makes it seem like this is a WAY better timeline than the main one...until the very last scene, and this might actually be the darkest timeline. I guess, like a different Thanos was fond of saying, there is a balance to everything. 

That was a lot of fun, they certainly did go off in their own direction in this one, it wasn't just "T'Challa as Star-Lord" like it looked like it might be. Of course, I cant blame the trailers for hiding what the actual episode was about, it was pretty dang wild. An epic space opera heist adventure, complete with sexy blond Nebula, Korath the Star-Lord fanboy, and of course Thanos the good guy, which was just so surreal. Every second no one is trying to punch him, I was weirded out. It did all end up working though, I had a great time and I am so glad that we got one more adventure with Chadwick Boseman. Just a huge reminder that he left us far too soon. 

That line about seeing T'Challa "in this plane or the next" really hit me in the gut. 

I guess its easy to just say that T'Challa is a better and more awesome Star-Lord than Peter ever would be, but there circumstances going to space were really different, so its not surprising their lives took such different turns, despite both being adducted by Yondu. T'Challa was beamed up at first, but it seems like he was totally down to go to space, even though later he stayed because Yondu lied to him about his family, while Peter was straight up kidnapped directly following having to watch the horribly traumatic lingering death of his mother from cancer. Also, T'Challa was raised as the wealthy and privilaged future king of a technologically and magically advanced utopia where he was trained to be the king and the Black Panther, while Peter was just a normal kid from a blue collar family (it seems like from what we saw) in rural Missouri, who's main parental figure in his life was Yondu, and while he did certainly love Peter as a son, he had a really dysfunctional way of showing it. Its easy to see how a kid who has been trained for greatness (and is generally a very noble good hearted person) would seem like less of a target for the Ravagers to threaten to eat every day and would be able to go around helping the universe instead of being a self proclaimed asshole like Peter, who it took awhile to get to the point where he could be a hero. 

The aliens all showing up in Wakanda was great, as well the return of Howard the Duck, the true hero of the story. I also like that Carina, who seemed to have such a sad life and died such a miserable death, got a happier ending this time. I also liked seeing the Collector now as a real threat, and I really want to know what went down so that he could get Hela's helmet and Cap's shield. 

Everything seemed great...until Ego showed up. Without ever having been an intergalactic criminal/hero with the rest of the guardians, there is a pretty good chance that Ego's big plan might actually work and this universe might be very screwed in the near future. But the watcher cant say for sure. This series is really fun, and I love how many of the actors are coming back for it. Even the new actors just doing voices are doing a good job.

[arc]

2 hours ago, swanpride said:

And what they did to Nebula...what the hell was the nonsense with the blonde hair?

Maybe that's her natural hair. The Nebula we know has been vastly altered by so many cyborg surgeries.

[Perfect Xero]

9 hours ago, ursula said:

In this reality, Thanos didn’t  even know those people. Looks like they were destined to be some Big Band’s minions in both realities.

Thanos recognizes them and warns the others that they're "bad news" which I took as an indication that they had been part of his forces before he switched sides and the Collector "filled the vacuum".

Even if we're supposed to take it that they're just hired goons or something and not Thanos's "children" as they were in Infinity War/Endgame, he still "adopted" Nebula and presumably killed off half her planet's population, which makes the whole "give dad a chance" thing beyond bad taste IMO.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

20 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

I liked the Wakanda twist because of how in character it was for Yondu, but I also liked the idea of it being destroyed as the price for the otherwise much better version of reality. OTOH, it sounds like Quill/Ego may destroy the world so there may be a price. I suppose it's fair for some branches to just be better.
 

Thinking on it, in this timeline there may have been no betrayal by T'Chaka's brother, no attempt on Zuri's life that necessitated his death, and thus no Erik Killmonger showing up to claim the throne for himself. Before we find out that Yondu lied about Wakanda being destroyed, I was wondering if the events that led to T'Chaka's assassination and then Killmonger's arrival had ended in the country being wiped off the map.

[Spartan Girl]

While it did feel like T’Challa forgave Yondu too easily, keep in mind this is the same guy that was willing to give Kilmonger another chance. So it didn’t feel that out of character.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

I'm not following the logic. T'Challa/Quill are early 20s. Gamora's clearly a young adult when she meets Quill in the MCU. Even if she's not exactly the same age, that still doesn't give much of a gap for T'Challa to influence events in the multiverse branch to save Gamora's people. If I crunched things right in my head, the most generous scenario still has T'Challa talking down Thanos in T'Challa's early teens.

I’m not following how T’Challa and Quill would be early 20’s. Peter was born in 1980 and kidnapped in 1988. T’Challa is roughly the same age as Peter. Guardians was set 26 years later.  Gamora was with Thanos for 20 years so T’Challa would have been in his early teens when Gamora’s people were killed. 

[Zuleikha]

26 minutes ago, Dani said:

I’m not following how T’Challa and Quill would be early 20’s. Peter was born in 1980 and kidnapped in 1988. T’Challa is roughly the same age as Peter. Guardians was set 26 years later.  Gamora was with Thanos for 20 years so T’Challa would have been in his early teens when Gamora’s people were killed.

I mixed up when Peter was born with when he was kidnapped, creating the early 20s age mistake. But somehow I still got to the correct age of early teens for talking down Thanos, so the underlying point is the same that I don't think it matters if Gamora is the same age as Quill/T'Challa or not. 

[arc]

It wasn't very graphic, but Cull Obsidian was a giant who got exploded by a tiny thing that grew inside him. Sort of almost an Easter egg for all those people who wanted Ant-Man to defeat Thanos in that crazy fan theory.

[swanpride]

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

instead of being a self proclaimed asshole like Peter, who it took awhile to get to the point where he could be a hero. 

That's the thing: The is NOT what child Peter Quill was. He was the child who got a black eye because of some frog. Quill was always a hero at heart, but years with Yondu supressed this tendencies, because he had to f... survive somehow (not to mention that he dealt with the trauma of losing his mother). There is no reason to think that T'Challa would be treated any differently than him. Or that he would somehow get the nickname Quill claimed for himself mostly out of sentimental reasons. 
In addition, Quill is actually pretty smart. It's easy to forget considering that he is surrounded by a genius like Rocket or a super fighter like Gamora, I can't see him staying willingly in a place which has so many bad memories for him once he became an adult. 

[Diapason Untuned]

18 minutes ago, swanpride said:

There is no reason to think that T'Challa would be treated any differently than him.

The context is different. Yondu feels guilty about Peter since he kidnapped him to get killed by his father like all the rest of his siblings, so the relationship took on a different note because of Yondu displacing those feelings onto Peter, what with the threatening to eat him and such.

No such feelings there with T'challa who made a good first impression on Yondu by acting calm and talking about his desire to explore.

 

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Or that he would somehow get the nickname Quill claimed for himself mostly out of sentimental reasons. 

This is fair, but I imagine T'challa told them about being a lord, and what with the part about him traveling through space the name stuck.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

5 hours ago, swanpride said:

That's the thing: The is NOT what child Peter Quill was. He was the child who got a black eye because of some frog. Quill was always a hero at heart, but years with Yondu supressed this tendencies

Kind of. You can see where it would be adapt-or-die, that Yondu "joking" about letting Quill be eaten would have him do whatever it took to make himself useful, even if it meant becoming a criminal. But he seemed not at all worried in the opening scene of the first GoTG movie, since he was literally dancing his way towards the place where the Orb was being kept. In the 'flashback' scene in Endgame, the replay of what happened with Rhodey and Nebula watching has Rhodey asking, "So he's an idiot?" and Nebula just kind of sighing "Yeah..." in reply.

The case can be made that Peter's Starlord fell victim to bad writing, particularly in Infinity War, since they could have dialed back his reaction to Thor several dozen notches. There's still a corner of the fandom that holds him responsible for screwing up on Titan. So he's an easy target when it comes to, Well, he's just naturally an ass/a screwup. As another poster said upthread, every time someone wasn't punching this version of Starlord it just seemed weird and out of place.

At the same time, Yondu's an easy target too. Space pirate. Kidnapper of children. Accessory to multiple deaths, since it wasn't the first time he'd worked for Ego in bringing one of his kids to him. I can't remember now why he didn't take Peter to his father, although he was ostracized from the larger Ravager group for taking part in the scheme. Did he just decide to keep the kid for shits and giggles? It's difficult to reconcile a guy who would threaten a child with cannibalization with someone who would also think, Hey, maybe I won't drop the little guy off at his father's, because I know what's going to happen if I do. The latter would imply Yondu had a conscience, and apparently we're not going there, even though that's what happened.

Sarcasm aside, I'm not saying you're wrong, because you're not. Yondu screwed up Peter's life, and the only reason he didn't screw up T'Challa here is the factors that have already been discussed. But if we can forgive Quill (eventually) for not being able to keep his cool for three more minutes in order to take a damn glove off, Yondu's transgressions could be filed under the same heading.