Controversy: At THIS Olympics?!

[SnideAsides]

Oh boy. From the weird circumstances of Brisbane winning 2032 (even though nobody's been picked for the 2030 Winter Olympics yet), to the IOC vice-president correctly being called a sexist asshole for demanding the leader of Brisbane's state stay in town for the Opening Ceremony, to Guinea pulling out a day ahead of the opening ceremony over Covid fears... I miss when the biggest controversies were algae in the diving pool and Ryan Lochte pissing in public.

[emma675]

Hee, I love the title of this thread. 

Do the cardboard beds count as controversy? I feel like they are more funny than anything, but I could see where it could be a detriment to athletes if they can't get a good night's sleep or the bed collapses under their weight. 

[merylinkid]

Oh heavens how could you miss the DIRECTOR of the Opening Ceremonies being fired just two days before the Big Day?   For a comedy act he did in 1998.    Like nobody NOTICED this until literally the week of the Olympics?    Did Japan do no due diligence on ANYONE connected with the Olympics?

https://www.npr.org/sections/tokyo-olympics-live-updates/2021/07/22/1019085152/another-olympic-opening-ceremony-hitch-the-director-is-fired-for-holocaust-comme

Then the sexism is rife in the Olympics this year:

Women's Handball team fined for refusing to wear bikini bottoms.   Men can wear shorts.   Women have to wear skimpy bikini bottoms.   Because its about ogling them not the sport apparently.  

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/norway-beach-handball-team-fined-bikini-bottoms/

   Breastfeeding moms have to leave their kids home because of restrictions on who can enter the Village:

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/olympics-spanish-swimmer-says-forced-leave-breastfeeding-son-home-2021-07-21/?taid=60f84b8b4f7e8d0001f2c2a7&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

Because going back and forth to separate accomodations will reduce exposure right?

Oh and its no like they care about disability rights either:

A deaf blind paralympian had to withdraw because she was expected to navigate the Games unaccompanied, again due to restrictions on the number of people there:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/20/us/becca-meyers-us-paralympic-tokyo/index.html

[Guest]

1 hour ago, SnideAsides said:

From the weird circumstances of Brisbane winning 2032 (even though nobody's been picked for the 2030 Winter Olympics yet)

While it's unusual, it isn't unprecedented. Los Angeles was assigned 2028 before the 2026 Winter Olympics site was picked. I believe that was part of a deal with Paris: Paris wanted 2024 to celebrate the centennial of their 1924 Olympics, so the IOC went ahead and gave LA the next one. So maybe there's some similar situation here?

30 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

A deaf blind paralympian had to withdraw because she was expected to navigate the Games unaccompanied, again due to restrictions on the number of people there

You would think that the Paralympics would have allowances across the board (e.g. one extra person allowed per athlete?), but I guess not.

[Moose135]

Oops...

Six Polish Swimmers Sent Home From Olympics After Administrative Error

Quote

Six Olympic swimmers from Poland have been sent home from the Olympic Games in Tokyo because of an administrative error.

The Polish Swimming Federation was forced to cut its team of 23 members to 17 after mistakenly sending too many athletes to Japan following a misunderstanding of the FINA qualifying standards, according to multiple reports.

“I express great regret, sadness and bitterness about the situation related to the qualification of ours players for the Olympic Games in Tokyo,” said Polish Swimming Federation President Pawel Slominski. “Such a situation should not take place, and the reaction of the players, their emotions, the attack on the Polish Swimming Federation (PZP) is understandable to me and justified.”

The six Polish swimmers are Alicja Tchórz, Bartosz Piszczorowicz, Aleksandra Polańska, Mateusz Chowaniec, Dominika Kossakowska and Jan Holub. They have returned to Poland and are planning on taking legal action in response to their country’s blunder, according to an NBC report.

 

[Harry24]

On 7/22/2021 at 12:20 PM, merylinkid said:

Women's Handball team fined for refusing to wear bikini bottoms.   Men can wear shorts.   Women have to wear skimpy bikini bottoms.   Because its about ogling them not the sport apparently. 

I've had this same objection to the differences in gymnastics competition wear for many years.

[xaxat]

This is just gross. USA Fencing, under the claims that their hands are tied, allowed a fencer with a long history of sexual harassment/assault to make the trip to Japan. He currently has three formal allegations against him and their solution is to keep him away from the women on the team.

Quote

 Acknowledging the severity of the allegations facing Hadzic, USA Fencing, the athletic federation in charge of selecting the country’s Olympic competitors, created a “safety plan” to keep him away from women and out of the Olympic Village: He flew in on a separate plane from his teammates, is staying at a hotel 30 minutes away from the other athletes, and won't be allowed to practice alongside women teammates. After he appealed those conditions, the entire roster of Team USA fencers signed a letter demanding the restriction stay in place.

But, you smoke weed and that disqualifies you.

Edited July 24, 2021 by xaxat

[kittykat]

Nothing against Brisbane but with the next four games going to repeat cities it would have been nice to keep that up instead of inundating yet another new city with ridiculous stadium standards and economic upheaval.

[legaleagle53]

Just now, kittykat said:

Nothing against Brisbane but with the next four games going to repeat cities it would have been nice to keep that up instead of inundating yet another new city with ridiculous stadium standards and economic upheaval.

You forget that while Cortina has hosted before (1956), Milano hasn't, so this will be uncharted territory for them in 2026, and it's yet unknown exactly which city will be handling what events or even where the Olympic Village(s) will be located,

[SnideAsides]

Brisbane will be fine. It's a huuuge sporting city already, plus it's decentralising events more than usual anyway (a big chunk will be held on the nearby Gold Coast, using facilities from the 2018 Commonwealth Games). All it actually needs to build are three indoor arenas (two of which were already going to be built to replace existing facilities, and one of which is going to be in a burgeoning outer part of the city that'll use it after the games) and the canoe slalom course. They're also rebuilding the city's main cricket/Australian Rules football stadium for the ceremonies and athletics (as Melbourne did in 1956), but aside from that everything already exists, will be getting only minor upgrades, or will be temporary.

[Bill1978]

On 7/23/2021 at 2:20 AM, merylinkid said:

Women's Handball team fined for refusing to wear bikini bottoms.   Men can wear shorts.   Women have to wear skimpy bikini bottoms.   Because its about ogling them not the sport apparently.  

I thought this was Beach Volleyball (which suffers a similar problem) but it's Beach Handball which isn't an Olympic sport. Still ridiculous, especially since the men asked in 2002 to wear 'form fitting' uniforms, citing the reasons the Federation gave for why women should wear bikinis, and were denied.

[Danny Franks]

On 7/23/2021 at 7:25 PM, Harry24 said:

I've had this same objection to the differences in gymnastics competition wear for many years.

Another thing about gymnastics - if the women have to do their floor routines set to music and incorporate flourishy dance moves, then so should the men. The justification is that it shows art and grace, or whatever, as well as athleticism, so why don't men have to show that as well?

Alternatively, if there's no reason for men to do little dance steps, then there's no reason for women to.

[mojoween]

Complaining about where and how to watch the Olympics is not new, but the consistency this year is next level.

The cable guide says 3x3 basketball on USA, and they are showing Taekwondo.  NBCSN says fencing, and it’s rugby.  Who is in charge of listings?  Anyone?

[Rickster]

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

Complaining about where and how to watch the Olympics is not new, but the consistency this year is next level.

The cable guide says 3x3 basketball on USA, and they are showing Taekwondo.  NBCSN says fencing, and it’s rugby.  Who is in charge of listings?  Anyone?

Fencing was on earlier, mens gold medal foil, then they switched to rugby. I think the same thing happened with the 3x3 basketball, where they showed the US beating China in women’s first, then switched to other events. But I agree NBC/Peacock really needs to figure out how to tell us what’s on where, since the cable channel guides are useless. I haven’t found anything useful online either.

[blackwing]

I don't fully understand the ban of Russia at the Olympics.  The Russian Olympic committee was found to have created a culture of doping and cheating, so the Olympics banned Russia as a team and they aren't allowed to use their flag or anthem.  In 2018 they were the Olympic Athletes from Russia.  And now in 2021, they are the "Russian Olympic Committee", which, isn't that the very committee that the Olympic organisation is trying to punish?  The athletes still wear the colours of Russia, everyone knows they are Russian.  So what's the point of the ban?  Is it money?  

[galaxygirl76]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Is it money?  

It almost always is. At least this time it's more consistent than in Rio when the IOC wimped out and let the decision making up to the individual sports federations.

[Vermicious Knid]

Who in the heck let a camera boat sit 10 feet away from the dock when the men's triathlon started? Everybody had to start over and officials had to go out and round up the ones who weren't blocked and had kept going.

[Danny Franks]

1 minute ago, Vermicious Knid said:

Who in the heck let a camera boat sit 10 feet away from the dock when the men's triathlon started? Everybody had to start over and officials had to go out and round up the ones who weren't blocked and had kept going.

I saw that on the highlights and was sure I'd seen swimmers dive in behind the boat as it swung about. Thought I must have been mistaken as it looked insanely dangerous. Not sure what the hell the boat crew were thinking.

[redpencil]

59 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

I saw that on the highlights and was sure I'd seen swimmers dive in behind the boat as it swung about. Thought I must have been mistaken as it looked insanely dangerous. Not sure what the hell the boat crew were thinking.

I don't know where the boat was supposed to be or if they got times mixed up or what,  but to me the biggest issue is the starter. Why on earth did they even start with the boat there?

[emma675]

I saw it live and couldn't figure out how that big of a mistake was made. I would have been pissed if I was a competitor. 

[Raachel2008]

I'm not sure who is following surf here, Gabriel Medina (world #1, two time world champion) was in the semifinals against Kanoa Igarashi. He was winning, and with 5 minutes left Igarashi needed like 8 points - which is a lot in surf. Anyway he surfed an okay wave and got a 9+ and went to the finals. Everybody on web was saying he was overscored because no way he deserved that. 

[xaxat]

On 7/24/2021 at 11:17 PM, SnideAsides said:

Brisbane will be fine. It's a huuuge sporting city already, plus it's decentralising events more than usual anyway (a big chunk will be held on the nearby Gold Coast, using facilities from the 2018 Commonwealth Games). All it actually needs to build are three indoor arenas (two of which were already going to be built to replace existing facilities, and one of which is going to be in a burgeoning outer part of the city that'll use it after the games) and the canoe slalom course. They're also rebuilding the city's main cricket/Australian Rules football stadium for the ceremonies and athletics (as Melbourne did in 1956), but aside from that everything already exists, will be getting only minor upgrades, or will be temporary.

Brisbane will be fine. However, they will go billions over budget. Because all Olympic Games go billions over budget. (Seriously. There's a whole economic discipline devoted to the cost/benefits of events like the Olympics and World Cup.)

There's perhaps no city with more existing world class sporting facilities than Los Angeles. Multiple professional teams in multiple sports, facilities at major universities like USC and UCLA etc. Their planned budget for the 2028 Games was about $5 billion, it's now around $7 billion. And will almost certainly go higher.

Having said that, I hope Brisbane proves me wrong.

[ShellsandCheese]

On 7/26/2021 at 3:17 PM, blackwing said:

I don't fully understand the ban of Russia at the Olympics.  The Russian Olympic committee was found to have created a culture of doping and cheating, so the Olympics banned Russia as a team and they aren't allowed to use their flag or anthem.  In 2018 they were the Olympic Athletes from Russia.  And now in 2021, they are the "Russian Olympic Committee", which, isn't that the very committee that the Olympic organisation is trying to punish?  The athletes still wear the colours of Russia, everyone knows they are Russian.  So what's the point of the ban?  Is it money?  

It’s really not that complicated. And there a gazillion articles and think pieces about it. Cliff notes: 

It’s RUSADA that was found to have engaged in a doping program with other Russian state agencies. This mostly stems from the 2014 Olympics in Sochi. 

WADA recommended that Russia be banned from the 2016 Olympics and the IOC rejected this and allowed about 200 Russians who’ve never had issues with PED’s to compete in Rio. In 2017 however, the IOC decided to ban the country of Russia from the 2018 Olympics and allowed Russian athletes with no PED issues to compete under the moniker of Olympic Athlete from Russia. Again, it’s the “country” that’s receiving the punishment not individual athletes. 

WADA later pushed for a four year ban for Russia for the cover-up to the initial scandal - but it was reduced to two. So for the 2020 and 2022 games Russian athletes cleared for competition will compete as the Russian Olympic Committee instead of as Russia the Country. 

Basically they are trying to do a collective punishment of the country - no Russian anthem, no Russian flags, etc while allowing individual clean athletes to still participate in the games. 

For what it’s worth, I’m a firm believer that doping is still pretty rampant in the summer games, mostly in swimming and track and field. In fact WADA did some anonymous survey in 2017 or 2018 and something like half of the athletes competing in international admitting to doping. It’s just not being sanctioned by the state as it was in Russia. See also the former East Germany.   

 

[SnideAsides]

4 hours ago, xaxat said:

There's perhaps no city with more existing world class sporting facilities than Los Angeles.

Melbourne.

[merylinkid]

5 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Basically they are trying to do a collective punishment of the country - no Russian anthem, no Russian flags, etc while allowing individual clean athletes to still participate in the games. 

Aaaaaand who is determining they are clean?    Sorry your country's doping testing sucks and is KNOWN to falsify results, every athlete is suspect.   

[ShellsandCheese]

3 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Aaaaaand who is determining they are clean?    Sorry your country's doping testing sucks and is KNOWN to falsify results, every athlete is suspect.   

The ITA is testing the Russians and they are the most tested athletes at the games on account of Sochi. The Russian athletes are under so much scrutiny currently, it’s doubtful that anyone who made it this far would be doping. They’ve pretty much been tested repeatedly since the end of last year heading into the Olympics.  Also, I’m reviewing where Russian athletes have won medals - it’s been in sports with no previous (or at least proven) of systemic cheating or doping. 

7 hours ago, SnideAsides said:

Melbourne.

There’s no way in hell Los Angeles should be hosting the Olympics. I mean California and LA in particular  is dealing with draught and a massive and growing homeless population - but yeah let’s spend 10 billion dollars on the Olympics. Once you account for inflation and the fact that every host goes over budget it’s going to be at least 10B. Let’s not kid ourselves. 

[Chaser]

LA is going to be horrible. I don’t know what they are thinking. There are plenty of better US cities to choose from. 

[Minneapple]

8 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

There’s no way in hell Los Angeles should be hosting the Olympics. I mean California and LA in particular  is dealing with draught and a massive and growing homeless population - but yeah let’s spend 10 billion dollars on the Olympics. Once you account for inflation and the fact that every host goes over budget it’s going to be at least 10B. Let’s not kid ourselves. 

The budget is probably mostly for upgrades to infrastructure like roads. Los Angeles 1984 is actually one of the Olympics that has made money on the Games, because they didn't have to build any facilities. They have ready-made facilities for most sports. The Lakers/Clippers arena, SoFi Stadium. UCLA and USC have facilities for track, swimming/diving and sports like volleyball and gymnastics (in addition to their basketball arenas). In the suburbs you have the Rose Bowl which has been used for World Cup soccer. The LA Coliseum is a national historic site and will be used for its third Games; I believe the original cauldron from 1932 is still there. And IIRC in 1984 they built the village for the athletes and then turned it into student dorms at UCLA; they'll probably do something similar this time around if those dorms are in need of an upgrade.

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

Another thing about gymnastics - if the women have to do their floor routines set to music and incorporate flourishy dance moves, then so should the men. The justification is that it shows art and grace, or whatever, as well as athleticism, so why don't men have to show that as well?

Alternatively, if there's no reason for men to do little dance steps, then there's no reason for women to.

Actually, the Russians HAVE lobbied for music for men for several years.  Asian countries have resisted.  My theory is that they expect that the Russians' familiarity and  long history with ballet and performance music would give them a natural advantage. 

[Harry24]

24 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

Actually, the Russians HAVE lobbied for music for men for several years.  Asian countries have resisted.  My theory is that they expect that the Russians' familiarity and  long history with ballet and performance music would give them a natural advantage. 

If Asian countries are the ones truly resisting they’ve obviously forgotten Daisuke Takahashi, Han Yan, Zhao Hongbo, Nathan Chen, Yuzuru Hanyu and many other wonderful musical Asian and Asian-heritage figure skaters.  No problem with musical expression there!

[proserpina65]

On 7/24/2021 at 4:50 PM, xaxat said:

This is just gross. USA Fencing, under the claims that their hands are tied, allowed a fencer with a long history of sexual harassment/assault to make the trip to Japan. He currently has three formal allegations against him and their solution is to keep him away from the women on the team.

But, you smoke weed and that disqualifies you.

Richardson tested positive for a banned substance.  She knew it was against the rules to use marijuana during a competition period and she did it anyway.  However one might feel about weed being banned, it is the rule.

The fencer is facing allegations only at this point.  If they are proven, that will be a whole different kettle of fish for future competitions but since nothing was proven prior to the Olympics, I imagine US Fencing was afraid of lawsuits from him if they removed him from the team.  It sucks, but it's all part of that presumption of innocence until proven otherwise.

On 7/22/2021 at 12:20 PM, merylinkid said:

A deaf blind paralympian had to withdraw because she was expected to navigate the Games unaccompanied, again due to restrictions on the number of people there:

This one was terrible.  There's no reason the USOC couldn't have added the number of people required for paralympians to have proper assistance and reduced some of the administrative staff.

 

[xaxat]

49 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

The fencer is facing allegations only at this point.  If they are proven, that will be a whole different kettle of fish for future competitions but since nothing was proven prior to the Olympics, I imagine US Fencing was afraid of lawsuits from him if they removed him from the team.  It sucks, but it's all part of that presumption of innocence until proven otherwise.

This isn't a court of law. It's SafeSport

Quote

The U.S. Center for SafeSport is an independent nonprofit committed to building a sport community where participants can work and learn together free of emotional, physical and sexual abuse and misconduct.

SafeSport suspended him. Which they had the right to do. However he went through arbitration and was reinstated. The fact that they had to come up with a plan to physically separate him from the team means that they failed their mission statement. None of the other fencers, men and women, wanted him near the team.

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

Richardson tested positive for a banned substance.  She knew it was against the rules to use marijuana during a competition period and she did it anyway.  However one might feel about weed being banned, it is the rule.

I understand why Richardson was suspended. But as demonstration of institutional priorities, the fact that he is at the Olympics and she is not is just gross.

[ShellsandCheese]

 

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Richardson tested positive for a banned substance.  She knew it was against the rules to use marijuana during a competition period and she did it anyway.  However one might feel about weed being banned, it is the rule.

The fencer is facing allegations only at this point.  If they are proven, that will be a whole different kettle of fish for future competitions but since nothing was proven prior to the Olympics, I imagine US Fencing was afraid of lawsuits from him if they removed him from the team.  It sucks, but it's all part of that presumption of innocence until proven otherwise.

Yeah. People are trying to compare apples to oranges. Not only that but WADA relaxed their rules and you can still light up when not competing. You just cannot use it during competition or close enough to competition to test positive. And I'll add to that, that the main reason it's on the list to begin with is because of the US. Every athlete competing at the international / Olympic level should be well versed in what is okay and what's not.  At the end of the day one of them clearly violating their sports anti-doping policy. There is an argument to be made that Hadzic should not be at the Olympics either, but it has nothing to do with why Richardson is not at the Olympics.  

[proserpina65]

3 hours ago, xaxat said:

This isn't a court of law. It's SafeSport

SafeSport suspended him. Which they had the right to do. However he went through arbitration and was reinstated. The fact that they had to come up with a plan to physically separate him from the team means that they failed their mission statement. None of the other fencers, men and women, wanted him near the team.

I understand why Richardson was suspended. But as demonstration of institutional priorities, the fact that he is at the Olympics and she is not is just gross.

I'm not saying it's a court of law.  But he went through arbitration and won his case there.  You can think it's gross, and I can agree with you, which I do, but the procedures were followed and he won his case.  If people want to work to change the process, then that's something they should do, but as the process currently stands, he has a right to be there.

And that situation has absolutely nothing to do with why Richardson was disqualified and is not comparable in any way.  Two entirely different sports bodies were involved in these decisions.  Trying to equate them does not help the argument, imo.

 

[SnideAsides]

10 hours ago, Chaser said:

LA is going to be horrible. I don’t know what they are thinking. There are plenty of better US cities to choose from. 

Nobody else wanted them, that's part of why the selection criteria was changed for 2032. They knew nobody was planning on bidding for 2028 (the closest to a legitimate bid was Amsterdam, which only wanted it to mark 100 years since their last games and pulled out when it looked like Paris was getting 2024/when the Dutch government decided to focus tourism on other parts of the country for sustainability reasons), so the dual "Paris gets it now, you get it next" win was setup to avoid being left without a city and having to bankrupt Greece again.

[Vermicious Knid]

So how is Tahiti hosting surfing for the Paris games? That's not even remotely close.

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Vermicious Knid said:

So how is Tahiti hosting surfing for the Paris games? That's not even remotely close.

In the 1956 Melbourne games, the Equestrian events were held in Stockholm because of Australia's quarantine requirements, so it's not like they haven't done this sort of thing before.

[SnideAsides]

Tahiti is a French territory. It's no different to, say, Atlanta's canoeing events being held in Tennessee or Moscow's sailing events being held in what is now Estonia. Or the pool matches in the soccer tournament being held in other cities every four years. It's just further away.

Edited July 30, 2021 by SnideAsides

[Vermicious Knid]

The distance is 15714.66 km, equal to 9764.64 miles. Almost 10,000 miles away is a hell of a difference.

[emmawoodhouse]

Swimmer Ryan Murphy voices concerns about doping in his sport. He wouldn't name names, but if I had to venture a guess, he's implicating Russian Evgeny Rylov. Rylov beat Murphy in the 200 back. 

AFAIK, nobody has failed a drug test, so Murphy should have kept his suspicions to himself.

Edited July 30, 2021 by emmawoodhouse
Autocorrect is not my friend

[Irlandesa]

I was very much in the wrong thread. I do not know how that happened. Ooops.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Irlandesa

[NUguy514]

14 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

There’s no way in hell Los Angeles should be hosting the Olympics. I mean California and LA in particular  is dealing with draught and a massive and growing homeless population - but yeah let’s spend 10 billion dollars on the Olympics. Once you account for inflation and the fact that every host goes over budget it’s going to be at least 10B. Let’s not kid ourselves. 

 

14 hours ago, Chaser said:

LA is going to be horrible. I don’t know what they are thinking. There are plenty of better US cities to choose from. 

I live in LA, and, no, neither of these statements is correct.  No other US city is set up for the Summer Games the way LA is, and our economy is and will be fine.  LA could pretty easily host any Summer Games at the drop of a hat; in fact, there were rumblings of moving the 2016 Games to LA right before they were to start because it seemed like Rio wasn't going to be ready.  We already have 99% of the infrastructure in place.  @Minneapple is correct that the budget is really going more to existing infrastructure and that the 1984 Summer Games made money.  Now, do I want to be here during the Olympics?  Umm, no, probably not.  The traffic will be beyond ungodly.

1 hour ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Swimmer Ryan Murphy voices concerns about coping in his sport. He wouldn't name names, but if I had to venture a guess, he's implicating Russian Evgeny Rylov. Rylov beat Murphy in the 200 back. 

AFAIK, nobody has failed a drug test, so Murphy should have kept his suspicions to himself.

I've been thinking it, too, so I don't mind his saying it.  The truth is that doping always, always outpaces the testing for doping, and when there's no real punishment for the type of systemic doping Russia engaged (and, let's be real, engages) in, why stop?  Which brings me to this:

23 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

WADA recommended that Russia be banned from the 2016 Olympics and the IOC rejected this and allowed about 200 Russians who’ve never had issues with PED’s to compete in Rio. In 2017 however, the IOC decided to ban the country of Russia from the 2018 Olympics and allowed Russian athletes with no PED issues to compete under the moniker of Olympic Athlete from Russia. Again, it’s the “country” that’s receiving the punishment not individual athletes. 

WADA later pushed for a four year ban for Russia for the cover-up to the initial scandal - but it was reduced to two. So for the 2020 and 2022 games Russian athletes cleared for competition will compete as the Russian Olympic Committee instead of as Russia the Country. 

Basically they are trying to do a collective punishment of the country - no Russian anthem, no Russian flags, etc while allowing individual clean athletes to still participate in the games.

 

Nothing about this is an actual punishment, and that's been my issue from the get-go (not directing this at you, by the way, @ShellsandCheese, just the situation itself).  Russian athletes still gets to compete and win medals, which Russia can, does, and will claim for its own.  It's a toothless, bullshit non-punishment.  Banning all Russian athletes, full-stop, would've been actual punishment, and tough shit for any clean athletes.

I certainly don't think there aren't plenty of athletes from other countries who are also doping, but it's not the same as the state-sanctioned scheme Russian effectuated.  It really was reminiscent of East Germany's doping program from the '70s and '80s.

[blackwing]

On 7/29/2021 at 2:52 AM, ShellsandCheese said:

It’s really not that complicated. And there a gazillion articles and think pieces about it. Cliff notes: 

It’s RUSADA that was found to have engaged in a doping program with other Russian state agencies. This mostly stems from the 2014 Olympics in Sochi. 

WADA recommended that Russia be banned from the 2016 Olympics and the IOC rejected this and allowed about 200 Russians who’ve never had issues with PED’s to compete in Rio. In 2017 however, the IOC decided to ban the country of Russia from the 2018 Olympics and allowed Russian athletes with no PED issues to compete under the moniker of Olympic Athlete from Russia. Again, it’s the “country” that’s receiving the punishment not individual athletes. 

WADA later pushed for a four year ban for Russia for the cover-up to the initial scandal - but it was reduced to two. So for the 2020 and 2022 games Russian athletes cleared for competition will compete as the Russian Olympic Committee instead of as Russia the Country. 

Basically they are trying to do a collective punishment of the country - no Russian anthem, no Russian flags, etc while allowing individual clean athletes to still participate in the games. 

For what it’s worth, I’m a firm believer that doping is still pretty rampant in the summer games, mostly in swimming and track and field. In fact WADA did some anonymous survey in 2017 or 2018 and something like half of the athletes competing in international admitting to doping. It’s just not being sanctioned by the state as it was in Russia. See also the former East Germany.   

 

 

5 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

I've been thinking it, too, so I don't mind his saying it.  The truth is that doping always, always outpaces the testing for doping, and when there's no real punishment for the type of systemic doping Russia engaged (and, let's be real, engages) in, why stop?  Which brings me to this:

Nothing about this is an actual punishment, and that's been my issue from the get-go (not directing this at you, by the way, @ShellsandCheese, just the situation itself).  Russian athletes still gets to compete and win medals, which Russia can, does, and will claim for its own.  It's a toothless, bullshit non-punishment.  Banning all Russian athletes, full-stop, would've been actual punishment, and tough shit for any clean athletes.

I certainly don't think there aren't plenty of athletes from other countries who are also doping, but it's not the same as the state-sanctioned scheme Russian effectuated.  It really was reminiscent of East Germany's doping program from the '70s and '80s.

I agree that this "ban of Russia" is a complete joke.  The only effect is that instead of being called "Russia", they are "Russian Olympic Committee".  Instead of hearing the Russian national anthem, they hear a piece by Tchaikovsky, a Russian composer.  They still all marched in together as one team, wearing outfits and uniforms in the colours of the Russian flag.

I get that the Olympics did not want to punish Russian athletes who have no history of doping.  It surely would have sucked to have trained for years and then not get to go to the Olympics because of a decision that was out of an athlete's individual control.  But that's exactly what happened in 1980 when the U.S. and many others boycotted Moscow and in 1984 when the Soviet Union and a handful of others revenge boycotted Los Angeles.  The American athletes who would have gone to Moscow in 1980 had absolutely nothing to do with the USSR invading Afghanistan or Carter's decree to use the Olympics as a political statement.  Oh well, too bad so sad.  There was zero option for an athlete to be exempt from a countrywide position and go to compete at the Games as an individual.

I see little distinction here.  If one Russian entity engaged in a system of doping with other Russian state agencies, then doping is prevalent in multiple official Russian state agencies, then the whole state is suspect.

The whole "ban" is just a cop out.  "We are punishing the country not the athletes."  But by not taking a stronger stand, there doesn't seem to be much impetus for change.  The biggest issue I have is with them all still obviously competing together as a team and wearing their team colours.

I would have taken a different approach.  Either:

1)  Individual Russian athletes can still compete, but they compete under the Olympic flag and they are not allowed to have a team uniform.  They get no funding or sponsorship from the Russian Olympic Committee, who surely are currently give them a stipend for living expenses, free uniforms and team gear/shoes/bags etc.  These athletes all probably belong to local sports clubs like a local swim team etc.  They can raise money in their community to help send them to the games.

Once at the games, they don't get to march in with other Russian athletes in identical uniforms.  They all have to wear their own outfits of their own choosing.  Their competition outfits are also of their own choosing, and none of the outfits can be purposely themed to match the Russian flag.  They march in at the end as "Unaffiliated Athletes" which would also have included the Refugee athletes.

The athletes compete as individuals.  So any medals they win don't wind up in the Russia column as medals won for the Russian Olympic Committee.  If they normally train as a pair (like in beach volleyball, tennis, doubles canoe, etc) then they can enter the competition as a team with their training partner(s).  However, any team sports should be out.  Any sport where a national committee picks athletes to be on a team where they normally don't play together, they get thrown together for purposes of the Olympics.  Like basketball, water polo, soccer, baseball, team shooting, team archery, team fencing, swimming relays.

If you're going to ban Russia, then why are they still allowed to have Russian teams.  Makes zero sense.

Alternatively,

2) Ban all Russians unilaterally.  It sucks, and it's unfair to the clean athletes.  But too bad.  Maybe if hundreds of clean Russian athletes who were at their peak had been banned from these Games, it would have inspired them to mandate change in Russia.  A group of Russian athletes calling for changes at home and helping to enact stringent anti-doping measures would have been a lot more effective than having hundreds of them marching into the stadium saying "hey it's not my fault, don't punish me".

[blackwing]

In other controversy, much is being made of Michael Andrew being the only U.S. swimmer to refuse to wear a mask when being interviewed.  He claims it's because he can't breathe, and he "just sacrificed his body in the pool" so he should be allowed to breathe.  Nobody else has had issues breathing after swimming a race, so it's obvious he's being difficult just for the sake of being difficult.

I'm sure he's also a bit miffed at his results thus far and maybe he's just acting out... I'm sure he expected a lot more and he's perhaps the biggest American swimming bust of these Games.  

[proserpina65]

10 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

So how is Tahiti hosting surfing for the Paris games? That's not even remotely close.

Definitely would make me want to compete in surfing in 2024, though.

3 minutes ago, blackwing said:

1)  Individual Russian athletes can still compete, but they compete under the Olympic flag and they are not allowed to have a team uniform.  They get no funding or sponsorship from the Russian Olympic Committee, who surely are currently give them a stipend for living expenses, free uniforms and team gear/shoes/bags etc.  These athletes all probably belong to local sports clubs like a local swim team etc.  They can raise money in their community to help send them to the games.

Once at the games, they don't get to march in with other Russian athletes in identical uniforms.  They all have to wear their own outfits of their own choosing.  Their competition outfits are also of their own choosing, and none of the outfits can be purposely themed to match the Russian flag.  They march in at the end as "Unaffiliated Athletes" which would also have included the Refugee athletes.

The athletes compete as individuals.  So any medals they win don't wind up in the Russia column as medals won for the Russian Olympic Committee.  If they normally train as a pair (like in beach volleyball, tennis, doubles canoe, etc) then they can enter the competition as a team with their training partner(s).  However, any team sports should be out.  Any sport where a national committee picks athletes to be on a team where they normally don't play together, they get thrown together for purposes of the Olympics.  Like basketball, water polo, soccer, baseball, team shooting, team archery, team fencing, swimming relays.

If you're going to ban Russia, then why are they still allowed to have Russian teams.  Makes zero sense.

I really wish they had taken this approach.  I think this is pretty much what they did in Rio.  Because it really isn't fair to basically allow Russia to compete and it wouldn't be fair to ban Russian athletes who can prove they have no history of doping.

 

[proserpina65]

3 minutes ago, blackwing said:

In other controversy, much is being made of Michael Andrew being the only U.S. swimmer to refuse to wear a mask when being interviewed.  He claims it's because he can't breathe, and he "just sacrificed his body in the pool" so he should be allowed to breathe.  Nobody else has had issues breathing after swimming a race, so it's obvious he's being difficult just for the sake of being difficult.

I'm sure he's also a bit miffed at his results thus far and maybe he's just acting out... I'm sure he expected a lot more and he's perhaps the biggest American swimming bust of these Games.  

He's just an asshole.  Never mind that the masks are supposed to help protect other unvaccinated people.  No, it's all about him.

FTR - I don't think unvaccinated athletes, officials and staff should even have been allowed to go to Tokyo.  But if you're going to allow them to be at the Olympics, at least enforce the mask mandate.

[emma675]

22 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

He's just an asshole.  Never mind that the masks are supposed to help protect other unvaccinated people.  No, it's all about him.

Agreed. And I don't feel one bit sorry that he flamed out and didn't medal. 

[Minneapple]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

I'm sure he's also a bit miffed at his results thus far and maybe he's just acting out... I'm sure he expected a lot more and he's perhaps the biggest American swimming bust of these Games.  

Nobody deserves to bust more. What a brat.

7 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

I live in LA, and, no, neither of these statements is correct.  No other US city is set up for the Summer Games the way LA is, and our economy is and will be fine. 

Not only that, but most of the funding that has been put up for the LA Games has been acquired from private and corporate sponsors. I think the city is putting its own money into the roads infrastructure (because that only makes sense), but other aesthetic stuff is being funded privately.

[AuntieDiane6]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

In other controversy, much is being made of Michael Andrew being the only U.S. swimmer to refuse to wear a mask when being interviewed.

He also refused to get vaccinated. 

[selkie]

On 7/29/2021 at 11:15 AM, ShellsandCheese said:

The ITA is testing the Russians and they are the most tested athletes at the games on account of Sochi. The Russian athletes are under so much scrutiny currently, it’s doubtful that anyone who made it this far would be doping. They’ve pretty much been tested repeatedly since the end of last year heading into the Olympics.  Also, I’m reviewing where Russian athletes have won medals - it’s been in sports with no previous (or at least proven) of systemic cheating or doping. 

 

Russian swimming Has Issues. Yulia Effinova has served one doping ban and almost got hit with another one over meldonium and still swam in Tokyo. And a number of other swimmers implicated in the McLaren report like Vlad Morozov who were allowed to compete in Rio and Tokyo with FINA's blessing because FINA will gladly let anyone violate doping control policies and claim there was nothing they can do. (See also- how they claimed there was no way to punish Sun Yang after he assaulted a doping control official)