S13.E02: Houston, We Have a Marriage

[Crashcourse]

A guy having a pit bull would be a deal breaker for me.  Seriously.  However, if he chose the dog over me I wouldn't be mad about it, I'd just wish them both well. 

[Baltimore Betty]

2 hours ago, Blissfool said:

This! Why did it have to be a pit bull? And as people say, dogs sense fear.

Pit bulls are strong dogs with jaws that can be like vise grips not letting go of what ever it has in their mouths, I know people say it is how they are raised, they are sweet dogs, etc...I am not a fan of a few dog breeds but pit bulls scare me, it can over power me easily, I can understand not being excited to be living one when you told the experts you did not want or like dogs.

[humbleopinion]

I can’t decide who was cast first Gil or Myrla?

Wouldn’t put it past Production to cast Mylar from social media and then matched her with Gil who doesn’t have anything bougie about him.

Mylar would have been better matched with a EntrepreneurChris brand conscious type…the two would happily spend meaningless time shopping at designer boutiques for themselves, their egos and each other

Edited July 29, 2021 by humbleopinion

[Stardancer Supreme]

Like I said before, the "experts" are supreme trolls. I saw there was an issue in the matchmaking episode.  They paired Myrla and Gil for purely dramatic purposes in hopes to humble her. That sucks.

That said, Gil's dog is a pit bull mix. The dog didn't look so dangerous in the home shots with Gil. But if a woman states that she doesn't want a man with a dog, that should stand.  Myrla should have committed the best decision for herself and refused to marry Gil once she was furnished with the info that she didn't want to hear.  I mean, we still see her on tv, we know who she is;  I'm not looking forward to seeing how this marriage will self destruct before our eyes.

[pdlinda]

20 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Ryan must think he’s pretty hot stuff but he looks like he’s got four kids at home and a mortgage he can’t afford

I completely agree.  His borderline disheveled appearance (including the knot of the tie being so sloppy and not conforming to the shirt collar), completely turned me off!

[spunky]

2 hours ago, zenme said:

Oh her tone is always shitty. I have a strong dislike for her.  It’s almost an irrational dislike, but then she always does something else where I say, “Nah. It’s not irrational.”

How is she an educator with that attitude? My goodness I dislike her almost as much as I disliked Chris.

[princelina]

5 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I thought it was funny too, and honestly, even if she thinks she's gorgeous, so what? She looked beautiful on her wedding day - so what if she knew it? We should all find ourselves attractive. I think "why wouldn't they be attracted to me?" is a healthier attitude than "there's no way they could be attracted to me."

Having said that, I don't think she thinks of herself that way - I think she thinks of herself as kind of awkward and nerdy, and her appearance is secondary to that.

Yeah I agree with you.  To be honest, I found her to be pretty but plain during her intro scenes, and then beautiful during her wedding - the makeup people they have this year are doing a really good job.

[gingerandcloves]

Myrla: I'm not going to kiss him at the altar; he's a stranger! (While marrying a stranger, WHUT)

Also Myrla: I want the sexiest wedding dress in the store.

I'm trying really hard to like her but she's making it difficult. Why didn't they match picky Myrla with picky Jose? At least they could enjoy making each other miserable.

[Jeanne222]

21 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

If anyone Is still hanging out, go check out Michaela’s outfit on Unfiltered. 
This makes the wedding dresses look demure. 
Mylra looks like she’s been stress eating. 

Where is unfiltered???

[Elizzikra]

9 hours ago, spunky said:

Another thing that annoyed me about Myrla, was her asking Gil an Afro-latino if he spoke Spanish.  Didn't he tell her he was born in Colombia? That was just pure ignorance.

That didn't bother me. He was born in Colombia but said that he spent the majority of his life in the US. I don't see this as an ignorant question; I think it would be ignorant to assume that he did speak Spanish...

Quote

 

My only hesitation would be the pit bull. I've heard all the arguments about mistreatment and nanny dogs, but I've also seen the stats. They kill more humans than every other breed combined. I'm not super interested in playing those odds, regardless of why it's happening. They could be intergalactic freedom fighters, avenging their ancestors from another dimension, but it doesn't matter if I don't have a face anymore.

I also have cats who would never be safe in a home with any pit-type dog,

 

At this risk of turning this into a referendum about bully breeds... my pit mix was the sweetest dog you could ever hope to meet. Not a mean bone in his body, God rest him, and he got along great with the cat (who doesn't love every dog she meets). 

Quote

I was surprised when she told him she’s some big shot in education administration or something.

I don't think she is a "big shot" in education. I think that she is a consultant/coach and perhaps self-employed. I think what she does is coach new/struggling principals to help them improve their performance. She is maybe hired by school districts to do this? But I didn't get the sense that she had any particular power or authority in the school system; just some level of expertise that she sells by the hour...

[kristen111]

23 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Right? But she draws the line on foundation?

Maybe she breaks out from foundation?  What else can it be?  Some sort of allergy to makeup?

[Elizzikra]

Just now, kristen111 said:

Maybe she breaks out from foundation?  What else can it be?  Some sort of allergy to makeup?

Maybe. It seems odd to me that she has such heavy eyelashes and the rest of her face isn't done at all...

[qtpye]

1 minute ago, Elizzikra said:

That didn't bother me. He was born in Colombia but said that he spent the majority of his life in the US. I don't see this as an ignorant question; I think it would be ignorant to assume that he did speak Spanish...

At this risk of turning this into a referendum about bully breeds... my pit mix was the sweetest dog you could ever hope to meet. Not a mean bone in his body, God rest him, and he got along great with the cat (who doesn't love every dog she meets). 

I don't think she is a "big shot" in education. I think that she is a consultant/coach and perhaps self-employed. I think what she does is coach new/struggling principals to help them improve their performance. She is maybe hired by school districts to do this? But I didn't get the sense that she had any particular power or authority in the school system; just some level of expertise that she sells by the hour...

It makes you wonder how she affords her lifestyle.

Reminds me of when Chris claimed he made 3 times as much as Paige and then we found out he was evicted from his Subway franchise.

[Elizzikra]

1 minute ago, qtpye said:

It makes you wonder how she affords her lifestyle.

Reminds me of when Chris claimed he made 3 times as much as Paige and then we found out he was evicted from his Subway franchise.

I think she affords her lifestyle the same way Chris afforded his... debt.

[Jeanne222]

A Pittbull, Doberman or a Snake would have me running down the Aisle like  Wiley E Coyote!!!

[zenme]

5 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

That didn't bother me. He was born in Colombia but said that he spent the majority of his life in the US. I don't see this as an ignorant question; I think it would be ignorant to assume that he did speak Spanish...

At this risk of turning this into a referendum about bully breeds... my pit mix was the sweetest dog you could ever hope to meet. Not a mean bone in his body, God rest him, and he got along great with the cat (who doesn't love every dog she meets). 

I don't think she is a "big shot" in education. I think that she is a consultant/coach and perhaps self-employed. I think what she does is coach new/struggling principals to help them improve their performance. She is maybe hired by school districts to do this? But I didn't get the sense that she had any particular power or authority in the school system; just some level of expertise that she sells by the hour...

Yes. She works for a company that trains 0

or coaches teachers and principals who work at schools that  are struggling.

[humbleopinion]

10 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Where is unfiltered???

It comes on after Couples Cam..

[kristen111]

Never mind.

[mythoughtis]

4 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

The producers made it happen, probably even asked both Bao and Johnny if they were planning on a tea ceremony if one of them hadn’t expressed interest in it. After all, they needed to fill the time since there are only five couples getting married this season.

Bao stated multiple times that she had insisted on a tea ceremony. So there was going to be one even if Johnny didn’t care one way or the other.   And maybe he had asked for one but was willing to forgo it if he bride didn’t want one. 
so the  producers knew in advance  to get outfits made that fit their measurements 

[princelina]

1 hour ago, Elizzikra said:

I don't think she is a "big shot" in education. I think that she is a consultant/coach and perhaps self-employed. I think what she does is coach new/struggling principals to help them improve their performance. She is maybe hired by school districts to do this? But I didn't get the sense that she had any particular power or authority in the school system; just some level of expertise that she sells by the hour...

"Coaching" is a thing that became big in school districts @15-20 years ago.  Since she obviously was a principal at some time, in all likelihood she's paid by the school districts to "coach" their principals, and it would be a high paying gig with little oversight. (Based on my experience working in public education for 20 years)

Edited July 30, 2021 by princelina

[TeacherWoman]

Points to ponder...

There isn't a lot of money to be made as a Texas educator.  If she is lucky, Myrla might earn in the high $90s or low $100s.

On that income, all her designer fashions might be coming from resale shops or perhaps her shoes came from la pulga and are actually Mannoloes.

[Maximadc]

1 hour ago, zenme said:

Yes. She works for a company that trains 0

or coaches teachers and principals who work at schools that  are struggling.

I can see her explaining to someone with a doctorate degree and years of experience how to treat all kids as equals and not to make assumptions based on clothes they wear…

[Maximadc]

37 minutes ago, princelina said:

"Coaching" is a thing that became big in school districts @15-20 years ago.  Since she obviously was a principal at some time, in all likelihood she's paid by the school districts to "coach" their principals, and it would be a high paying gig with little oversight. (Based on my experience working in public education for 20 years)

How did she get this position in her late 20s/early 30s? I don’t see how it could be possible in the large school system

[pdlinda]

1 hour ago, Elizzikra said:

I think what she does is coach new/struggling principals to help them improve their performance. She is maybe hired by school districts to do this? But I didn't get the sense that she had any particular power or authority in the school system; just some level of expertise that she sells by the hour...

I agree with you.  I think she was a "principal" at a school (or schools), maybe independent day schools (not sure) who tired of the organizational structure and demands of her position and possibly was encouraged to go into the "coaching/training/consultant" aspect of the profession (I know something about this).  That would involve her forming her own company and being an independent contractor to school districts/individual schools to assist in various aspects of areas in which she claims to have expertise.  

This can be quite lucrative and if a person builds a reputation in certain areas of teacher/admn development she can demand high compensation from a number of schools.  My sense is that she can afford her lifestyle; however, she has to remain productive and present in her field on an ongoing and continuing basis.  She, of course, also has to provide her own insurance and other benefits.

When I think of her taking time off for maternity leave (and afterward), I understand that Gil's profession will provide the family with healthcare benefits; however, the loss of her income (I don't see her rushing back to work after having a baby) will probably be profound in the lifestyle of their family. 

We all know our heroic firefighters make a decent wage; HOWEVER, their income is not in the category of affording the luxe items (loubutin (sp?) shoes with the red soles) she seems to gravitate toward having.

Frankly, I see this match as having zero chance of succeeding in the long run.  As with last season, too many "red flags" between these two.  Gil seems like such a great guy!!  I'm so sorry he is being put through this "high drama" experience on national (international) TV.

[zenme]

13 minutes ago, pdlinda said:

I agree with you.  I think she was a "principal" at a school (or schools), maybe independent day schools (not sure) who tired of the organizational structure and demands of her position and possibly was encouraged to go into the "coaching/training/consultant" aspect of the profession (I know something about this).  That would involve her forming her own company and being an independent contractor to school districts/individual schools to assist in various aspects of areas in which she claims to have expertise.  

This can be quite lucrative and if a person builds a reputation in certain areas of teacher/admn development she can demand high compensation from a number of schools.  My sense is that she can afford her lifestyle; however, she has to remain productive and present in her field on an ongoing and continuing basis.  She, of course, also has to provide her own insurance and other benefits.

When I think of her taking time off for maternity leave (and afterward), I understand that Gil's profession will provide the family with healthcare benefits; however, the loss of her income (I don't see her rushing back to work after having a baby) will probably be profound in the lifestyle of their family. 

We all know our heroic firefighters make a decent wage; HOWEVER, their income is not in the category of affording the luxe items (loubutin (sp?) shoes with the red soles) she seems to gravitate toward having.

Frankly, I see this match as having zero chance of succeeding in the long run.  As with last season, too many "red flags" between these two.  Gil seems like such a great guy!!  I'm so sorry he is being put through this "high drama" experience on national (international) TV.

There are companies who do this leadership coaching. Sometimes principals get out of working in their districts because they’re being moved somewhere they don’t want to go, they’re being replaced and don’t want to take a demotion or teaching job, or maybe she heard the company pays more. I can totally see her getting poor reviews as a principal from teachers. I can see teachers making complaints, which looks bad. Superintendent wants to know why all the complaints? Put in a new principal who can work with the teachers better. I can totally see teachers not liking her if she gets this much shit re: her attitude only after watching 2 episodes.

[pdlinda]

3 minutes ago, zenme said:

I can totally see her getting poor reviews as a principal from teachers. I can see teachers making complaints, which looks bad.

I don't see her working effectively in a "corporate structure."  I don't see her taking constructive criticism from superiors and I don't see her faring well on annual "reviews" for the reasons you mentioned.  

In my State, people with that type of professional background and temperament usually go into individual consulting where they can be their own boss.

From what I see about Myrla she thinks much more highly of herself than is warranted under the circumstances.

[Kiss my mutt]

She sure doesn’t seem like a very good communicator or personable which I would think would be important as a coach/consultant unless you’re educating teachers for stank face school. 

[gingerandcloves]

I liked Michaela's dress, I thought the blush color she chose was really pretty. She and Zack seemed to have a great initial spark. I think these two have a chance of making it. I'm putting them behind Johnny and Bao as the second most likely couple to succeed. I don't really think the others have a shot at making it.

 

[buttersister]

Quote

her shoes came from la pulga and are actually Mannoloes.

Louboutins. Somewhere in that hideous ceremony there was a reference to her red-soled shoes. His trademark. 

[JLaw]

On 7/28/2021 at 7:28 PM, Stardancer Supreme said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one who didn't like Myrla, Brett, or Rachel's dresses.   I would have forgiven Myrla if not for the tattoo right between her breasts. That's all I could focus on whenever they showed her.  I'm not tattoo shaming, but she chose a dress where you couldn't help but see it.

My issue with the other titty gowns is that opaque panel used to emphasize the cleavage. I don't like nude illlusion type dresses when the bride's skin doesn't match the fabric.  If you have to show off the tatas, tape the dress to them and leave that film off! There's a fine line between sexy and stripper wear...

Ryan would probably benefit more from grief therapy than a marriage to a stranger. He is traumatized! I'm not sure Brett will be able to pull him out of that particular funk.

Hee hee titty gowns!

[JLaw]

On 7/28/2021 at 10:49 PM, ChiCricket said:

Right away, I had the thought that the name Ryan has been used for both  boys and girls.

I've never heard of a female Brett, though. 

 

I used to work with a woman named Brett.  I probably wouldn't name a baby girl Brett but I've seen some female Bretts in my day

[JLaw]

20 hours ago, spunky said:

Another thing that annoyed me about Myrla, was her asking Gil an Afro-latino if he spoke Spanish.  Didn't he tell her he was born in Colombia? That was just pure ignorance.

Eh... that didn't bother me much.  For all she knew he could have moved to the US and his parents forced him to speak English.  There are many other things that annoy me about Myrla

[Ms.C.]

19 hours ago, cardigirl said:

 

My unpopular opinion is that I liked Myrla's gown and thought it was great

Me too. I liked the dress way more than her.  Everything above re Myrla I second. Just something inauthentic. And I wish Gil were with Brett who i like a lot. I think with very little evidence they’d be a good  match. What brought Myrla to MAFS is a mystery to me. 

i feel sorry for Rachel.  Love Bao and Johnny and expect everything about them is authentic including traditional tea ceremony. Rented  attire?  In the families?  Totally authentic people.  

sad looking guy(???) a mystery.  Give him time.   Brett might fit with him but better with Gill who has sense of humor which I believe Brett needs. 

watching Ryan? Playing piano and imagining him crocheting, she might be a bit too much  We’ll see  

Bottom line, so sorry for Gil who should be with my favorite so far Brett  

Now like every year I’ll see over time how wrong I am   First impressions    But my two cents worth  

Last season was a mess  And I think Jamie asks great questions, and really like Couple’s Cam bc it moves fast  Little vignettes that keep me interested  

 

 

 

[JLaw]

17 hours ago, greeneyedscorpio said:

I'm hating all the Pit Bull hate on this thread.  

 

My 91 year old grandmother loves Pit Bull... because he wears suits 😀

[kristen111]

19 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

Don’t know where to post this, as it’s not episode related, but:

Not only have Erik & Virginia called it quits….so have Ryan & Clara.  

I loved seeing the tea ceremony.  Delightful to see that custom, integrating both families with respect.  I hope we can see Bao & Johnny go to California to help his father get on board. 

Wow, good to know.  Ryan & Clara.  I knew from the beginning they wouldn’t make it.  Thanks.

12 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Where is unfiltered???

On demand after the show.  Second topic down.

[kristen111]

6 hours ago, buttersister said:

Louboutins. Somewhere in that hideous ceremony there was a reference to her red-soled shoes. His trademark. 

She said she works hard and deserves them.  Didn’t we all ?

[kristen111]

9 hours ago, zenme said:

There are companies who do this leadership coaching. Sometimes principals get out of working in their districts because they’re being moved somewhere they don’t want to go, they’re being replaced and don’t want to take a demotion or teaching job, or maybe she heard the company pays more. I can totally see her getting poor reviews as a principal from teachers. I can see teachers making complaints, which looks bad. Superintendent wants to know why all the complaints? Put in a new principal who can work with the teachers better. I can totally see teachers not liking her if she gets this much shit re: her attitude only after watching 2 episodes.

[kristen111]

15 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Pit bulls are strong dogs with jaws that can be like vise grips not letting go of what ever it has in their mouths, I know people say it is how they are raised, they are sweet dogs, etc...I am not a fan of a few dog breeds but pit bulls scare me, it can over power me easily, I can understand not being excited to be living one when you told the experts you did not want or like dogs.

These “experts” don’t care if people match .. they just want drama, lots of it.  They have nerve to match her with him.  I would be petrified to be alone with the dog when he is at work, which will be lots of nights.  I love animals, but lots of people are afraid of big dogs.  I don’t see this working at all.

[Mercolleen]

23 hours ago, kristen111 said:

I was surprised when she told him she’s some big shot in education administration or something.

And she was such a bitch about not working with *shudder* TEACHERS. Only administration for her! Newsflash: Teachers hate administration.

[lh25]

On 7/29/2021 at 12:02 AM, qtpye said:

Mikaela scene with her sisters giving her the Starship Enterprise was truly beautiful.  Her gown actually seemed to fit her breasts and they were not pushed up to her eyebrows.

I agree.  That was SO sweet, so meaningful for them.

I also agree about her gown.  It was my favorite.  It fit well and was flattering.  I liked the blush color as well.

I am a little tired of the "I asked for ____".  This isn't putting in an order on Amazon people.  And then the experts explaining why they picked someone totally different then the one "ordered" with lines like "We think he will balance her out".  Yeah, and she may well resent the h*ll out of him for trying.

[spunky]

3 hours ago, JLaw said:

Eh... that didn't bother me much.  For all she knew he could have moved to the US and his parents forced him to speak English.  There are many other things that annoy me about Myrla

I was more bothered by her tone. She just came off as abrasive.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

On that income, all her designer fashions might be coming from resale shops or perhaps her shoes came from la pulga and are actually Mannoloes.

I have really good luck at consignment shops, particularly with bags and shoes. Somehow Myrla doesn't strike me as the type to "do" consignment but I can sometimes find very high-end things that have the original tags attached and have never been used. 

Quote

My unpopular opinion is that I liked Myrla's gown and thought it was great

I liked it too (it's not my style and I could never pull it off) and thought it fit her perfectly, I didn't love the foam cups; I think there is a way to do that look at cover the nipples without those heavy pads but I think that would be an even more expensive, carefully constructed gown. 

Quote

that opaque panel used to emphasize the cleavage.

I think the panel also holds the dress together; I'm not sure those white pieces of the gown actually touched each other in some places. She would be doing a LOT of taping without the panel.

Quote

I liked Michaela's dress, I thought the blush color she chose was really pretty.

I liked it too; she was a pretty bride. The dress suited her and fit well. 

I didn't like Brett's dress. Boobs are boobs. People have them and it doesn't shock me to see them, even on a bride on her wedding day. But Brett's dress provided her no support at all and it just kind of hurt me to look at her. It just didn't seem to me to be her most flattering style. I am also not generally a fan of red hair that is a red not found in nature. If she toned it down to a more strawberry blond or auburn, it would be better. I feel like the color she has now is harsh against her skin and not flattering.

[buttersister]

4 hours ago, kristen111 said:

She said she works hard and deserves them.  Didn’t we all ?

You and I think so. Now, let's ask Gill. 😉

ETA: Because the producers are hoping he'll have a problem spending all that $$$$.

Edited July 30, 2021 by buttersister

[gingerandcloves]

I liked Myrla's dress also. Apparently it's from Berta Bridal and retails for $10,000 (gulp).

[Crashcourse]

1 hour ago, Elizzikra said:

I am also not generally a fan of red hair that is a red not found in nature. If she toned it down to a more strawberry blond or auburn, it would be better. I feel like the color she has now is harsh against her skin and not flattering.

I agree about that hair, the color is just too harsh and not natural-looking.  

[JocelynCavanaugh]

12 hours ago, buttersister said:

Louboutins. Somewhere in that hideous ceremony there was a reference to her red-soled shoes. His trademark. 

I heard it, too. Inserting a reference like that in your vows to a stranger is... a choice.

5 hours ago, JLaw said:

My 91 year old grandmother loves Pit Bull... because he wears suits 😀

Mr. Worldwide! He always reminded me of Anthony Melchiorri from Hotel Impossible. Then HI did an episode at Hotel Fontainebleau in Miami and the housekeeping staff were all giggling and whispering in Spanish while he was talking to them. He finally stopped and asked them what it was about, and they were like "Pitbull! You look like Pitbull!" And I felt vindicated. Anyway back to MAFS.

5 hours ago, Mercolleen said:

And she was such a bitch about not working with *shudder* TEACHERS. Only administration for her! Newsflash: Teachers hate administration.

We call it crossing over to the Dark Side for a reason. New administrators sometimes try to keep that classroom cred and are all "I'm not a regular vice provost. I'm a cool vice provost." Sure, Linda. It's fine to move up and/or over into coaching or consulting, but Myrla's attitude about it is a bad sign. Sort of like her attitude about literally everything.

[princelina]

16 hours ago, Maximadc said:

How did she get this position in her late 20s/early 30s? I don’t see how it could be possible in the large school system

If you keep going for higher ed while teaching you can get a masters degree and principal certification in your mid twenties.  Interview everywhere; get lucky with an assistant principal job where the principal leaves/retires in a year or two, and there you go.  There are plenty of people who go into education who don't really want to teach; their goal is administration.

16 hours ago, zenme said:

 I can totally see her getting poor reviews as a principal from teachers. I can see teachers making complaints, which looks bad. Superintendent wants to know why all the complaints? Put in a new principal who can work with the teachers better. I can totally see teachers not liking her if she gets this much shit re: her attitude only after watching 2 episodes.

Yeah I've never heard of a district where anyone's interested in teacher complaints about a principal 😄. Certainly none I (or my friends) have worked at.

[Jeanne222]

Myrla and Gil will figure it out. 

If she told the experts no pets I’m sure they shared with Gil and I’d guess he has alternate plans for said dog!

The pit bull community is tight. Somebody will take big dog and Gill will visit…unless he’s not real pleased with his bride then big dog will stay and Mryla will go!

Maybe if he’s crazy about her he’ll grow hair. 

Everything is possible!

[zenme]

48 minutes ago, princelina said:

If you keep going for higher ed while teaching you can get a masters degree and principal certification in your mid twenties.  Interview everywhere; get lucky with an assistant principal job where the principal leaves/retires in a year or two, and there you go.  There are plenty of people who go into education who don't really want to teach; their goal is administration.

Yeah I've never heard of a district where anyone's interested in teacher complaints about a principal 😄. Certainly none I (or my friends) have worked at.

Really? I’ve worked for 2 school districts. If the principal gets bad reviews and a lot of teachers are leaving or has many complaints to the teacher’s union—our principal had over 100 last year, they can be moved. My cousin is a principal at one of those districts and she tells me those climate reports are important. 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

I liked Myrla's dress also. Apparently it's from Berta Bridal and retails for $10,000 (gulp).

I am too lazy to go through them all but evidently the almost-naked look is a Berta hallmark... https://www.berta.com/bridal-couture/collections/.

Do we know anything about the budget for the dresses? Does the show cover that or give them any sort of budget or are they on the hook for their own gown cost?

Edited July 30, 2021 by Elizzikra