S06.E21: Reunion Part 1

[SnarkKitty]

Oh, and I wanted to call out a comment Carole made. I think Andy was the one who asked what would happen if someone who didn't have asthma used an inhaler and Carole piped in with "nothing." Shut up, Carole. You are not a doctor.

 

As a long time asthma sufferer who managed at some point to work my way out of never leaving home without an inhaler to having not had to use one in nearly a decade (don't know how but glad anyway!) I agree nothing will really happen. For one, if you don't have it and use it you probably don't even know how, you'll wind up with a mouth full of mist. If you persist (why??) at worst you'll probably feel jittery. It's unpleasant, so other than carrying it for affect, I can't imagine why anyone would take a mouthful if they didn't have to.

 

Isn't because of the knockdown-drag-outs on RHOA that it is the most watched ho show?  And, I didn't even mention Porsha going after Kenya.  Slapping or throwing wine just doesn't seem to be as seriously dramatic.  I don't believe there is anything racist about it.  Do we have to manufacture "racist" when it really does not apply?

No, it's because the ATL women are funny and fun, and know how to insult their co-workers without being mean and low about it (Nene's recent turn nothwithstanding). Even with that, the worst action prior to this year was a slight wig tug. The ratings were already high and climbed higher before that one outbreak of violence on the show happened. And even with that, it was the men, not even the women. There have been more knock down/drag outs on NJ than ATL has ever had. Miami has actually had the women fighting each other. Hell, the Dance Moms get into more slapfests than the ATL ho'wives! So no, that was a dogwhistle and Aviva knew it. It was shorthand for oooh, black people scary! They'll fight you! And why, exactly? Are they known for randomly running around hitting people they aren't already feuding with? Fuck that noise, it's like porn, I know it when I see (and hear it). Aviva was, and remains, suspect., rachet-looking 32 year old "stepmother" notwithstanding.

 

LuAnn ate hers. Jill ate hers. Alex ate hers. Sonja doesn't begin to understand that it's not sushi on her plate. Heather smells that her amuse-bouche have been served with the bossy edit. Aviva asked for a refill because shit sandwiches smell like tabloids or something.

(Bon appétit everyone !)

 

Love it. Love the shoes, love the bag, love everything. 

[Mozelle]

This part I suppose I agree with because he seems like a nice enough guy and Carole does know that.  I guess what I mean is that if Heather is still upset with Ramona for what she said, yet Carole continued to write rosy blogs about Ramona, that Heather would take that as being a non-loyal friend.  Then, I could see Carole cutting Ramona off at the knees.

 

But if Heather has in fact moved on and forgiven Ramona, then I believe the friendship between Carole and Ramona is also safe.

 

This sounds like a Lisa Vanderpump description, where she expects people to kowtow to her whims and whatnot. I have yet to see anything from Heather that would remotely resemble that. I don't get from Heather that she expects Carole to do as she says or else, or that she's likely to lay down some ultimatum for Carole, or would expect that Carole wouldn't be friendly with Ramona because Ramona said something ridiculous about Jonathan.

[jelliebean]

Heather called it ... a backhanded compliment from Aviva. Imagine what Aviva had planned. She compliments Heather for her "grace" dealing with Kristen while planning to attack Heather  with an over the top "ghetto" accusation of Carole later. I see it coming. 

Edited August 1, 2014 by jelliebean

[jelliebean]

This sounds like a Lisa Vanderpump description, where she expects people to kowtow to her whims and whatnot. I have yet to see anything from Heather that would remotely resemble that. I don't get from Heather that she expects Carole to do as she says or else, or that she's likely to lay down some ultimatum for Carole, or would expect that Carole wouldn't be friendly with Ramona because Ramona said something ridiculous about Jonathan.

I couldn't agree with you more. Thank you. 

[Talented Tenth]

Isn't because of the knockdown-drag-outs on RHOA that it is the most watched ho show?  And, I didn't even mention Porsha going after Kenya.  Slapping or throwing wine just doesn't seem to be as seriously dramatic.  I don't believe there is anything racist about it.  Do we have to manufacture "racist" when it really does not apply?

None of the women ever physically fought on ATL before Porsha assaulted Kenya ( which wasn't even during the course of filming the show) which is why some of us wondered why Aviva had to mention ATL.  Does that put things in a different light for you?  Slapping and throwing wine are much more dramatic than nothing...

[ryebread]

This sounds like a Lisa Vanderpump description, where she expects people to kowtow to her whims and whatnot. I have yet to see anything from Heather that would remotely resemble that. I don't get from Heather that she expects Carole to do as she says or else, or that she's likely to lay down some ultimatum for Carole, or would expect that Carole wouldn't be friendly with Ramona because Ramona said something ridiculous about Jonathan.

 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-6/videos/aviva-drescher-throws-her-leg

Imo, this is just a few seconds that tells a much bigger story. Obviously, YMMV.  I believe it's a preface to what we'd see more of if NYC returns.

 

At :09 seconds Carole tells Aviva she makes up lies and repeats them.  She is speaking at the same time as Heather so Heather sharply yells "CAROLE!".  Carole shuts up mid-sentence.  However, more revealing to me than her shutting up like she's told, is right after Heather yells at her, Carole sort of shrinks, looks embarrassed and does a nervous gesture with her hair.  Watch Ramona at the same time. (you'd have to rewind to see) She looks embarrassed for Carole and like, damn, that was harsh.  Carole did the same shrink-and-duck that Jonathon did at Luann's house when Heather yelled at him.  I think Heather is bossy (Heather thinks Heather is bossy) and expects people to do what she says when she wants them to do it.  That's kowtowing, imo.  Because they're intimidated, they want to be her friend, because they like having a boss for a wife, friend, whatever.

 

I think Ramona, having been around Heather far more often than we have, has seen this from Heather many times over and that's why she said what she did about Jonathon in Montana.  She saw it at Luann's just like we did, and I doubt that was a first.

 

Heather was unquestionably loyal to a fault to Carole over Aviva's diss, I can't imagine that she wouldn't be pissed off if Carole continued a glowing friendship with Moaner after Moaner was so awful about her husband. IF Heather was still angry. If Heather wasn't, then I'm sure they're all right as rain.  Pinot all around.

Edited August 1, 2014 by ryebread

[copacabana]

Heather is kind of a bitch.  And very full of herself.  But she's got a certain kind of charisma and knows how to conduct herself for the most part.  It does seem that she and Carole are close, but I wonder just how close they would really be if Heather hadn't made it a point to kiss Carole's ass from the very start. It's good for business and Carole enjoys being adored and seems to kind of expect it.  

 

Like many ass-kissers, Heather has certain rights in her own mind, I guess.  Like the right to take control in heated situations and shove her pals, no matter who they are, aside while she leads the charge. Because, of course, no one can take care of things as well as Heather can. That seems to be her attitude.  She was also bossing Kristen around during the pre-leg toss shrieking.  She escalated the whole thing by standing up and shouting at Aviva.  Not that I can really blame her. Aviva will make a body lose her mind in a matter of seconds but getting up out of your seat and getting all shouty and indignant ain't going to bring the temperature down and gave A. the perfect excuse to shove her appendage in front of the camera.

 

Kristen shouldn't have gone there in Montana and lost the argument because it made her look petulant and nutty, but she was onto something with the Miss Bossy Boss of Bossiness stuff.  Plenty of men are dominated by their wives -- doesn't mean they're not manly.  I don't doubt that Heather throws her weight around with Jonathon.  I'm sure he's found ways to cope and counterbalance her heavy routine. 

 

Heather seems a lot more likable than she is because almost half of these women are repulsive on a pretty regular basis.  And her general lack of prissiness is appealing.

[SFoster21]

Ramona's excuse is always that she is telling the truth. She reminds me so much of Vicki on the OC show. In what world is it OK to hurt someone just because the words are true? I don't give a frogs fat ass if she means to be hurtful or not; she is. She has been since the first season and continues in the same vein. If she doesn't realize that it is hurtful to look someone in the face - someone who is crying - and tell them that they are a terrible hostess, than she is too dumb to live.

But really, if it is all about telling the truth, then let the gals have at it. If Ramona thinks the truth will set you free, then the gals should all feel free to mention the truth - which is that Ramona filed for divorce from Mario. This wasn't a tabloid rumor like so many things Ramona shoots out of her ass. It isn't gossip. It is the truth and since she is all about the truth, let's have at it. They should feel free to reveal whatever other "truths" they know. Maybe they know someone else Mario was fucking. Maybe he hit on one of them or a friend? Go for it ladies. If it's the truth, it's Okay and Ramona won't mind.

A truth that's told with bad intent

Beats all the lies you can invent.

Ramona knows what she's doing. And she picks a time when you are vulnerable and hurting.

And her meanness is fueled by jealousy. Ramona is nearly sixty playing 22 and that is not a game she can sustain. She is terrified and she is striking out at random.

[msblossom]

Well said, Copacabana. Although I wouldn't let Heather boss me around, I feel she's far more tolerable than the rest. Well, except for maybe Lu.

ETA: Actually, I take that back, I think LuAnn is probably more tolerable because of Heather and maybe Carole too -- they brought her down to earth with their dislike for pretension.

Edited August 1, 2014 by msblossom

[breezy424]

A truth that's told with bad intent

Beats all the lies you can invent.

Ramona knows what she's doing. And she picks a time when you are vulnerable and hurting.

And her meanness is fueled by jealousy. Ramona is nearly sixty playing 22 and that is not a game she can sustain. She is terrified and she is striking out at random.

I don't think that Ramona is playing 22 nor do I think her 'age' has anything to do with her meanness to other people.  As a matter of fact I'm so tired of the 'age' card being thrown out by some of the women on the show and even here.  Carole's fifty and doesn't have a man.  Ramona didn't learn that you don't throw things in her sixty five years of life.  It's the go to insult attempt when you can't think of anything else to say to put a woman down.  A very sad reflection on our society here in the US.  Ramona says what she says to make her feel better about herself.  Just like her demands when she travels.  I don't think she is jealous of the other wives.  She doesn't want Lu's life or any of the other women.  She just wants to feel her life is better and she gets that feeling by putting other people down whenever she can.  Mario's cheating becoming public is all the more devastating because of this. 

t t

[Lablover27]

I'm playing the drinking game next week, every time Sonja purses her lips and shakes her head, shoulders and poses for the wrong camera with her hands clasped at her knees -  I'm swigging.  How long is rehab? 

 

On another shallow note, when is it coming out that Mario banged Sonja?  That's the ONLY episode I'd DVR from the RHONY.  Producers, 'make it happen!'  http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&docid=V1YVhaa9Dy3qQM&tbnid=evbcMn74QNaZ6M:&ved=&url=http%3A%2F%2Fstarcasm.net%2Farchives%2F234911&ei=kTrbU_L0I8f6oAScyoCIDQ&bvm=bv.72197243,d.cGU&psig=AFQjCNF1Pnvn2JgZkCsuhEh-5lGS9GE4BQ&ust=1406962705664684

Edited August 1, 2014 by Lablover27

[ScoobieDoobs]

I'm playing the drinking game next week, every time Sonja purses her lips and shakes her head, shoulders and poses for the wrong camera with her hands clasped at her knees -  I'm swigging.  How long is rehab?

 

What the hell is with Sonja & those just-smelled-poop faces she constantly makes at the camera?  Doesn't make her look sexy, if that's her intention -- more like she's getting herself ready for the men in white suits to take her away.  

 

Well, if ya wanna get tanked really quick, take a swig every time Veevs sneers & says something nasty.  That'll get ya loaded in 5 minutes.

Edited August 1, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[Talented Tenth]

The women don't choose their tag lines though. They record a bunch of different ones and the producers decide which line to go with for the final cut.

 

Carole didn't have to say it if she didn't want to.  I stand by my statement that she likes to remind people of her princess status without overtly using it.  Even at the last reunion LuAnn brought up that Carole acts as if it's no big deal but it was her tagline for the season.

[Midnight Cheese]

I'm completely tired in turn of accusations of ageism for expecting a nearly 60 year old woman to not act like a toddler and to refrain from abusing and picking on newbies because she feels she's entitled to ruling a certain fucked-up fiefdom, or whipping out her childhood as some kind of excuse to get away with abusing people when she hasn't seen the backside of her childhood for 40 years.  It's such manipulative, unfair bullshit and she is utterly too old to play those nasty cards.  I personally don't like seeing women of any age being told their hair/dress/dating status has a blessed thing to do with age, but if my age creates the expectation that I am too old by years and years to engage with a snarky kid with snarky, bratty attitude on that exact level, Ramona is too g.d. old to pretend that her own variation of the 'truth cannon' routine is acceptable, adult behavior.  MMV.

[tulip555]

Thanks for that info - I didn't know that they were related to Carole...maybe that was why LuAnn gently referred to them as "mentally ill" rather than screaming that they were delusional, deranged or just plain ole' batsh*t crazy!

 

To be honest, I kind of get more of a "Blanche Dubois" vibe from Sonja.  She's kind of creating this fantasy world for herself, where she is still in the upper echelons of society and the toast of the town, instead of a near-broke, down on her luck, aging socialite who is losing her appeal. 

 

I can totally see Sonja in a scene where she would tell someone "I always rely on the kindness of strangers"....

Yep, Sonja will ride that "Streetcar Named Desire" to the end of the line.

[comatoast]

Call me crazy, but I don't think anniversary gifts should require general anesthesia.

You might think differently if you were married to Josh. I'd probably welcome being knocked out for a few hours, too! Actually, that sounds like a nice little vacation for BOTH of them.

[parisprincess]

It does seem that she and Carole are close, but I wonder just how close they would really be if Heather hadn't made it a point to kiss Carole's ass from the very start.

 

Maybe, just maybe, Heather found that she likes Carole's personality and enjoys her sense of humor.  I'll be watching for the ass kissing though. 

[1keyskat]

None of the women ever physically fought on ATL before Porsha assaulted Kenya ( which wasn't even during the course of filming the show) which is why some of us wondered why Aviva had to mention ATL.  Does that put things in a different light for you?  Slapping and throwing wine are much more dramatic than nothing...

Talented Tenth

Snarkkitty

 

I guess we all have our own perception of events -- and, that's what makes the world go 'round.

Edited August 1, 2014 by 1keyskat

[archer1267]

Heather's handsome hubby doesn't have swagger because he doesn't need it.

 

 

And I'd like to see Mario do a Spartan mudder. 

[muttsrule]

I was so irritated at Sonja I channeled my inner Aviva and ripped off the bandage from my sprained left ankle and threw it at the dog.

 

This?  Might be the funniest thing I have read in my life, ever.   Long time TWOP and PT lurker, first time poster because I had to comment on this.  I've enjoyed all the posts on these boards for so long, I hope I can add to the dialogue in a meaningful way.  

 

Sonja is seriously ill and in need of help.  Andy seems unwilling to force the "ladies" to speak one at a time because he might miss something absolutely insane if he tries to shut them up.  The cross talk is annoying but it is truly bringing out the crazy.

[SnarkKitty]

None of the women ever physically fought on ATL before Porsha assaulted Kenya ( which wasn't even during the course of filming the show) which is why some of us wondered why Aviva had to mention ATL.  Does that put things in a different light for you?  Slapping and throwing wine are much more dramatic than nothing...

Talented Tenth

Snarkkitty

I guess we all have our own perception of events -- and, that's what makes the world go 'round.

 

Either a knock-down/drag out fight happened, or it didn't - that isn't perception, it's fact. Claiming that as justificaton or the reason Aviva made the comment is reaaaaallly reaching, IMO. Especially when faced with the facts that two other franchises actually ARE guilty of what ATL is accused of doing.

[Ipse Dixit]

About "Princess" Carol:  I also have a family connection to an historically revered person.  Thing is, 90% of the population probably would not recognize my ancestor's name.  I'm going to guess that  maybe 50% of the people who hear "Carole Radziwill" or "Anthony Radziwill" associate the names with Polish royalty.

 

Now, within the 10% of the population who recognize my ancestor's name, I find a spectrum of curiosity, ranging from "Wow, it's like having royalty here!" to "So what would your ancestor say about ----" to "Naw, you don't LOOK like the guy, are you sure???"

 

My bet is that Carole has encountered very similar reactions and attitudes over the past 25 years (the several that she dated Anthony, the five they were married, and the 15 since his death).  Having her sense of humor and her background in a robust but ordinary family, plus her perspective gained from seeing the world as she did during her time with ABC News, I rather imagine that she plays the Prncess card when it might be useful (such as getting a ready-made storyline on RHONYC) and also for her own amusement when people like Ramona curtsy to her in a café. 

 

When I read here that she had a PRINCESS sign at her Good & Evil birthday party, coming from my own history, I perceived it as 1000% ironic and wryly funny. 

 

Now, about Heather and Carole.  Heather surely knew that Carole was a best-selling author and that her marriage afforded her some in's to people and places most of us don't have.  My bet is that H also recognized a person who's witnessed a loved one's suffering from poor health (as H has/does) and  a ballsy woman unafraid to speak her mind. 

 

And with less pretensions than one might imagine.

 

Also, they're about the same height, which I've read and observed tends to be part of lots of friendships, don't know why.  All these things tell me that Heather just found a ready affinity for someone with whom she could identify, and yes, make use of.  All friendship have a certain usefulness to them. 

 

So, I don't see it as ass-kissing as much as I see it as a naturally occurring friendship.

[Duke2801]

But Carole's first blog was written before Ramona made disparaging remarks about Jonathon*.  I don't see a strong relationship between Heather and Ramona anymore, therefore I think the relationship between Carole and Ramona is probably now in the dumper.

It seems Heather would expect (demand) the same loyalty from Carole when Jon was dissed as Heather showed to Carole when Carole's career was questioned.

 

*or was it. LOL.  I'm so confused by the timeline of when the show was filmed and when the blogs are written - what happened when and who is writing in real time or not.

 

No.  The blogs are written in "real time" as opposed to everything we see happening on the show, which occurred over a year ago. 

 

I hate that term, too.  But Aviva's not the only one who has made cracks about their elders' ages.  I think all of them have, with the exception of Ramona and Luann.  Them being the oldest, that kind of makes sense

 

 

Ramona and Sonja are the oldest.  Luanne just turned 49 in May.  Sonja will be 51 this November.

Just curious -- anyone think Lu is maybe being a bit too hard on Sonja?

 

Sure, her bullshit is annoying & she's a con artist.  But Lu is being kinda shrill & I could see sympathy going out for Sonja from viewers who don't know the deets on how she conned that film company & why she has the huge judgement against her

 

 

Not even a little bit. I'm LOVING that Lu is dishing up the dirt on Ms. Morgan. Sonja has been a stealth bitch to Luanne throughout this entire season, and has earned Lu's "truth bombs" at the reunion.

 

Sonja relies on the kindness of abundance candles, interns and Bravo.

 

 

And Christian physics.  Or whatever she called that dude who was reading her tarot cards at that restaurant. 

[LotusFlower]

The leg toss scene is why I love Heather - she is the smartest one of the lot, by far. As soon as Aviva started in with her "my doctor lied to me....I really don't have asthma..." and everyone looked confused, Heather told Kristen to stop engaging because Aviva was making fun of her. Then Aviva once again brought up ghostwriting, which of course incited Carole, and Heather yelled at Carole to shut up - which I loved because when your friendship is real, you can do that, and because she once again could see what Aviva was doing before everyone else did. In this case, going after Carole's achilles heel. Then she stood up and said she wanted to leave and go home, because she knew the Aviva freak show was only just beginning.

[bosawks]

And I'd like to see Mario do a Spartan mudder. 

 

Isn't Spartan Mudder the name of his alleged mistress?

[copacabana]

Hey, I'm almost 60 myself and sometimes too cynical.  Perhaps ass-kissing was a bit extreme in describing Heather's dealings with Carole.  I don't doubt that Heather enjoys Carole and vice-versa.  That's plain to see on screen.  Perhaps what I should have said is that Heather seemed from the start very interested in pursuing Carole as a pal -- and, really, why not, right?  So probably my jaundiced eye working over time. Friendships can feel like courtships and I had the impression that Heather was smitten and out to make a good new friend --  Sure is wise to have one on this train wreck of a show and who else, at the time, was there for Heather to really bond with?

 

On the other hand, ass-kissing is pretty typical in newly formed friendships between women.  It's kinda how we do when that initial friendship spark gets lit  And there's nothing really wrong with it.  These two haven't known each other for long and we haven't seen them argue or get into like H. and K. did at that geocaching thing.  Maybe I should find a term other than ass-kissing as it sounds harsh. If the show and cast survive as it maybe we'll get a taste of what a H and C disagreement might look like. That's always the big test.

 

Re Heather sticking up for her friends, that's great and it is a nice quality to have in a buddy.  It's also useful as a pal to know when to let folks have their say and get it out of their system without interference  I would've liked to have heard more of what Carole had to say to Aviva in that moment and Carole is after all a grown woman and then some.  Why Heather feels that she has to step in all the time and be that protective, I dunno.  She doesn't like being controlled herself. 

 

And she does enjoy a good grandstanding moment.  "I'd like to go home tonight," is a pretty good line -- and could very well have been scripted also.  

[LotusFlower]

Re Heather sticking up for her friends, that's great and it is a nice quality to have in a buddy.  It's also useful as a pal to know when to let folks have their say and get it out of their system without interference  I would've liked to have heard more of what Carole had to say to Aviva in that moment and Carole is after all a grown woman and then some.

You already know what Carole was going to say to Aviva. That was Heather's point, and why she intervened. It was same old, same old - Aviva hitting Carole where it hurts, and Carole responding in kind. (Just a refresher: word on the street, ghostwriter, well-wishers, you're a liar, delusional, pathetic....). Aviva wanted an audience, Carole was about to play along, and Heather saw all this from a mile away.

[Mozelle]

At :09 seconds Carole tells Aviva she makes up lies and repeats them.  She is speaking at the same time as Heather so Heather sharply yells "CAROLE!".  Carole shuts up mid-sentence.  However, more revealing to me than her shutting up like she's told, is right after Heather yells at her, Carole sort of shrinks, looks embarrassed and does a nervous gesture with her hair.  Watch Ramona at the same time. (you'd have to rewind to see) She looks embarrassed for Carole and like, damn, that was harsh.  Carole did the same shrink-and-duck that Jonathon did at Luann's house when Heather yelled at him.  I think Heather is bossy (Heather thinks Heather is bossy) and expects people to do what she says when she wants them to do it.  That's kowtowing, imo.  Because they're intimidated, they want to be her friend, because they like having a boss for a wife, friend, whatever.

 

ryebread, for whatever reason the link didn't work, but I imagine it's a link to the scene in the last episode when Heather finally had enough and stood up. As I said in that episode thread, I didn't see anything wrong there. I also don't see any "shrinking" from Carole or a "nervous gesture" or Ramona looking "embarassed." Honestly, I think all of those adjectives are meant to convey your perception of what happened, which, like we discussed in the leg-throwing episode thread (or maybe it was Aviva's thread), doesn't exactly gel with how I viewed that moment between friends. :) I think Heather saw exactly where Aviva was going--from mocking Kristen to once again poking at Carole--and simply wasn't there for it.

 

Carole had already said what she needed to say that night at Aviva's and at the clam bake, but Aviva relishes sucking people into her drama. Carole, unfortunately, continued to let it happen both times (because, seriously, Aviva is going after someone's career) and was well on her way to having it happen again at the wrap party. I say good for Heather for trying to head that off. And again, I saw no "shrinking" from Carole. She did stop talking, though. 

 

The leg toss scene is why I love Heather - she is the smartest one of the lot, by far. As soon as Aviva started in with her "my doctor lied to me....I really don't have asthma..." and everyone looked confused, Heather told Kristen to stop engaging because Aviva was making fun of her. Then Aviva once again brought up ghostwriting, which of course incited Carole, and Heather yelled at Carole to shut up - which I loved because when your friendship is real, you can do that, and because she once again could see what Aviva was doing before everyone else did. In this case, going after Carole's achilles heel. Then she stood up and said she wanted to leave and go home, because she knew the Aviva freak show was only just beginning.

 

All of this!

 

Re Heather sticking up for her friends, that's great and it is a nice quality to have in a buddy.  It's also useful as a pal to know when to let folks have their say and get it out of their system without interference  I would've liked to have heard more of what Carole had to say to Aviva in that moment and Carole is after all a grown woman and then some.  Why Heather feels that she has to step in all the time and be that protective, I dunno.  She doesn't like being controlled herself. 

 

And she does enjoy a good grandstanding moment.  "I'd like to go home tonight," is a pretty good line -- and could very well have been scripted also.  

 

But what more could Carole have said in that moment? Aviva's go-to just to get Carole riled up is mentioning "the word on the street." Carole and Aviva had a nice shouting match at Aviva's place and later again on the beach. Carole's thoughts and words on the matter haven't changed and certainly hadn't by the time of the wrap party and, a year later, still hasn't changed. Aviva doesn't give two shits about Carole's thoughts on the matter. She didn't initially and she didn't at the wrap party. Aviva is just such a troll that she's only interested in the riled reaction; not in any clarity on the subject.

 

That kind of person can be draining.

[archer1267]

Heather seemed from the start very interested in pursuing Carole as a pal

 

 

I never picked up on that, but maybe I should re-watch last season. I just remember Heather's interactions with Ramona before London, and don't remember the friendship with Carole really gelling until St. Bart's, when the two sat on the beach and talked. I tended to see the three newbies as hanging out together. If anything, I thought Aviva was the starstruck one. 

 

Both Carole and Heather have strong ties to the entertainment industry, so it probably was easy to find common ground.

 

I honestly don't know how Aviva can continue to insist that her taking off her leg was a purely spontaneous act.

[copacabana]

Anger ain't good but neither is anger interruptus.  And this is C's battle to fight if she wants to.  The argument is repetitive and tedious for sure.  And, yeah, Heather is a smart cookie and a protective friend. True too, and I know this from my own experience, that dealing with a child with serious, chronic health issues tends to bring out this mama lion-warrior aspect and it can be hard to shut that down.

 

Aviva definitely wants an audience at all times.  It's possible that Carole, still furious, may need an audience herself.  It can take a very long time to get over that kind of fury. Cheers -- it's all good.  I do hope the show survives and that we get to see this cast, minus AD, return. 

[LotusFlower]

Aviva definitely wants an audience at all times.  It's possible that Carole, still furious, may need an audience herself.  It can take a very long time to get over that kind of fury.

The lie that Aviva spread was damaging and embarrassing to Carole's reputation. No need to give it more air time, or vent any more about it. Besides, both Heather and Carole knew what Aviva was up to. You could see them roll their eyes when Aviva brought up book-gate so out of the blue. It was so contrived.

[ScoobieDoobs]

I'm LOVING that Lu is dishing up the dirt on Ms. Morgan. Sonja has been a stealth bitch to Luanne throughout this entire season, and has earned Lu's "truth bombs" at the reunion.

 

Oh, I agree, but who woulda thought of Lu in the Bethenny position of insisting on breaking thru the bullshit, to get to truth?  She had to be one of the biggest bullshitters on the show.  Sheesh, Sonja's foggy haze of bullshit is turning her into Gretchen.

 

Aviva wanted an audience, Carole was about to play along, and Heather saw all this from a mile away.

 

Yeah, that's what I thought too.  It was just Heather being an awesome friend & looking out for Carole -- that's why she shouted at her.  It was to cut her off, so she wouldn't fall for the bait yet again & give Veevs more camera time she doesn't deserve anyway.  I'm thinking this is why Veevs chose Carole to pick on.  It was a calculated move by either her or the producers.  Hey, it could be either one really.  But she was an easy target.  Veevs (and/or the producers) found out what Carole was sensitive about & tweaked it.  Carole just keeps falling for the bait over & over & over.  Heather is damn right.  Stop responding to Aviva's nasty bullshit & that's the end of her, cuz she's got nothing else to give except nastiness & pure evil.  Ignore her & send her packin'.

 

Oh my, Moaner needs some water.  Someone turn the hose on Moaner, please.  At least Andy seemed concerned she needed water.  When Veevs said she needed a drink, he gave her a look like he didn't give a fuck.  He looked like he wanted to say to her, "Go get your own drink, you evil one-legged c*nt."

Edited August 1, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[zoeysmom]

What is LuAnn's bitch about Ramona-what  has Ramona done to her this season that has any effect whatsoever on Luann's life?  She intimated her singing was bad.  BFD-LuAnn's singing is awful and that is why she chose to sing a song why knew could not be aired.  LuAnn does what she always does and reaches into the past to attack Ramona.  Ramona said some stuff about LuAnn being a cheater.  But LuAnn has brought the comment up far more times than Ramona ever said it. 

 

Now LuAnn is ranting about Sonja not wanting to be friends with her?  First off, why would LuAnn want to friends with someone she claims is delusional, scattered and variety of other names for unstable?  (But apparently not unstable enough to watch after LuAnn's sick kids when LuAnn won't bother to.)  Is LuAnn that desperate for friends she needs to tap into the lunatic bin?   LuAnn knows filming with Sonja means you get air time because Sonja can be funny just as she can appear sad.  Either way she entertains.  Secondly, why does LuAnn care if Ramona left the Berkshires-she despises the woman.  Once Ramona said, "I was uncomfortable."  It should have stopped.  No one was comfortable being around Ramona because Kristen was making such a BFD over her lip.  Why do these women care if Ramona went to a party where her wine was featured?  To even bring it up makes them appear very desperate.  (Of course LuAnn did have to say she had been invited.)

 

I am waiting to see if the two self-righteous bumps on the sofa to the right of LuAnn say anything to her.  I am sure they won't but at some point they have just sold their souls to the snake.

 

LuAnn gets her big moment with Mario cheating rumors-a decent person would not dance around with glee and exclaim "Karma".  If LuAnn was hurt by Ramona bringing up rumors it certainly doesn't make a LuAnn a better person it makes her a miserable person.  I guess they can call Ramona delusional for saying "alleged" but when it comes right down to it -is the Singer marriage any better or worse than say the Taekman's marriage?  Because I found Josh loathsome and it wasn't editing.

 

I still hate Kristen the buttinski.  The woman is a far bigger ham than Aviva.  There is a reason no one wants to listen to Kristen-she is redundant, whiny entitled slug.

[1keyskat]

Talented Tenth

Snarkkitty

 

Either a knock-down/drag out fight happened, or it didn't - that isn't perception, it's fact. Claiming that as justificaton or the reason Aviva made the comment is reaaaaallly reaching, IMO. Especially when faced with the facts that two other franchises actually ARE guilty of what ATL is accused of doing.

Yes. of course, it happened.  Just because it was the men--they are also featured on the show. I don't want to be in a position of defending Aviva. I think she says some nasty things that most people wouldn't even think to say.

Maybe all 3 franchises are  guilty of  trying to stir up interest.

[FozzyBear]

Hey, I'm almost 60 myself and sometimes too cynical. Perhaps ass-kissing was a bit extreme in describing Heather's dealings with Carole. I don't doubt that Heather enjoys Carole and vice-versa. That's plain to see on screen. Perhaps what I should have said is that Heather seemed from the start very interested in pursuing Carole as a pal -- and, really, why not, right? So probably my jaundiced eye working over time. Friendships can feel like courtships and I had the impression that Heather was smitten and out to make a good new friend -- Sure is wise to have one on this train wreck of a show and who else, at the time, was there for Heather to really bond with?

On the other hand, ass-kissing is pretty typical in newly formed friendships between women. It's kinda how we do when that initial friendship spark gets lit And there's nothing really wrong with it. These two haven't known each other for long and we haven't seen them argue or get into like H. and K. did at that geocaching thing. Maybe I should find a term other than ass-kissing as it sounds harsh. If the show and cast survive as it maybe we'll get a taste of what a H and C disagreement might look like. That's always the big test.

I know what you mean. Heather and Carol have an interesting dynamic. It's not that I question their friendship or why they even like each other (Carol may work my last nerve, but I get why people like her. I like Heather better, although she does have some really annoying moments), but they do bring out certain qualities in each other. They sort of play into one another. It's hard to describe. If I had to, I'd say Heather likes to be the team leader and Carol likes to be babied. In the context of their friendship Carol gets to play the spacey, kooky woman-child and Heather gets to be the grown up smiling at the antics of the bright child, but also setting the rules and boundaries. It doesn't make their friendship phony or anything, but it's an interesting dynamic.

[LotusFlower]

I know what you mean. Heather and Carol have an interesting dynamic. It's not that I question their friendship or why they even like each other (Carol may work my last nerve, but I get why people like her. I like Heather better, although she does have some really annoying moments), but they do bring out certain qualities in each other. They sort of play into one another. It's hard to describe. If I had to, I'd say Heather likes to be the team leader and Carol likes to be babied. In the context of their friendship Carol gets to play the spacey, kooky woman-child and Heather gets to be the grown up smiling at the antics of the bright child, but also setting the rules and boundaries. It doesn't make their friendship phony or anything, but it's an interesting dynamic.

I get what you mean. I see this dynamic as well. It's funny, because usually like attracts like, but their personalities are so different. But like you said, they bring different things to each other.....I guess in a way that some couples do (uh oh - shades of Aviva asking them if they're lovers).

Something stood out for me when Heather was telling Carole about Jax and their decision to not do the surgery. She was talking about the second opinions and the debate back and forth, and Carole asked what Jax thought. I thought that was really sensitive and sweet of her to ask about Jax' opinion, even though he's still a young boy. I have good friends who have a child with lots of health problems, and I always try to help figure out the best option when there are conflicting opinions between the two of them and doctors. I'm embarrassed to say I've never thought to ask about the child's point of view. Obviously, the responsibility of tough decisions lies with parents and not children, but sometimes, and in some circumstances, the child's opinion is important. That seemed to be the case here, as Heather thanked Carole for asking that question, and explained that Jax thought his hearing was fine, so that helped them all make the decision. Anyway, I think it showed mutual traits of maturity and caring and like-mindedness between friends.

[Mrs peel]

Now LuAnn is ranting about Sonja not wanting to be friends with her?  First off, why would LuAnn want to friends with someone she claims is delusional, scattered and variety of other names for unstable?  (But apparently not unstable enough to watch after LuAnn's sick kids when LuAnn won't bother to.)

Do we know if – today – LuAnn wants to be friends with Sonja?  I wonder.   Sonja’s behavior appears to be on a downward spiral – so that when they were filming LuAnn may not have been as aware of the cluelessness.  Clearly LuAnn had never heard the model/real estate tycoon claims until the reunion. 

 

And we have only Sonja’s word that she took care of LuAnn’s kids when they were sick – I know Luann didn’t challenge that but I don’t take it as proof.  And Sonja is so delusional that I think we can question whether this actually happened, or question if it happened, when that was.  Considering Luann’s son is now probably in boarding school, her daughter in college, and both of them supposedly spend the summers with their Dad in Europe, I doubt it was last summer.  Could have been years ago, could have been Sonja walked into Luann's house and learned one of the kids was sick (and promptly left/asked Luann when they were leaving/etc).

 

On Aviva and asthma and her friendship with Ramona.  Either they aren’t really friends, or Aviva’s asthma is now much better, or Aviva is lying about how bad her asthma was (and seriously, any one of these explanations could work for me, I can’t decide!).   Because when Andy brought out his rescue inhaler (I have the same one, blue with a dark blue top!, Generic meds for Andy and me <G>), did anyone else notice Ramona appeared to have NO idea of how to use it?  Didn’t take the top off (Thank God!, though she wouldn’t have thought not to), didn’t know which end was up.  If Aviva has only 30% lung capacity, she’d be using that thing multiple times a day in NYC.  Come to think of it, the generic albuterol rescue inhaler was not one of the things that seemed to be in her little bag of tricks to toss at Kristin.  Hmmm..

[ScoobieDoobs]

Now LuAnn is ranting about Sonja not wanting to be friends with her?  First off, why would LuAnn want to friends with someone she claims is delusional, scattered and variety of other names for unstable?  (But apparently not unstable enough to watch after LuAnn's sick kids when LuAnn won't bother to.)  Is LuAnn that desperate for friends she needs to tap into the lunatic bin?   LuAnn knows filming with Sonja means you get air time because Sonja can be funny just as she can appear sad.  Either way she entertains.  Secondly, why does LuAnn care if Ramona left the Berkshires-she despises the woman.  Once Ramona said, "I was uncomfortable."  It should have stopped.  No one was comfortable being around Ramona because Kristen was making such a BFD over her lip.  Why do these women care if Ramona went to a party where her wine was featured?  To even bring it up makes them appear very desperate.  (Of course LuAnn did have to say she had been invited.)

 

You bring up some really good points.  And that's why I asked before if anyone thought Lu was being a bit too rough.  Have to admit I enjoyed watching Lu shooting down all the bullshit.  Sure, Sonja's bullshit & babble can be entertaining, but it can also be annoying & downright maddening.  She's always trying to make her bullshit cutesy.  The Grey Gardens comparison is hardly cutesy, but Sonja was trying to make it seem like it was adorable.  Honestly, I was glad Lu shot that crap down quick by shouting "They were mentally ill.".  Now on the other hand, I didn't enjoy Kristen's singing that Sonja is delusional.  It seemed mean to me -- and just a ploy to defend Dickhead.

[copacabana]

FozzyBear:  Good analysis of the Heather-Carole dynamic.   

 

Heather lost a lot of points with me over the geocaching thing.  Regardless of how annoying Kristen might be, I thought Heather was cruel and smug in those scenes-very drunken Ramona-like.  Am also not a fan of what seems to be the Heather and Josh alliance.  I wouldn't appreciate that in a girlfriend. Either stay out of it altogether or find a way to help your friend see the light without reinforcing all that is detestable in the bad husband. Kristen is way more vulnerable than Carole will ever be.  Josh isn't going to change and if Kristen insists on making a go of it, she's going to need to detach emotionally at some level and find her own way.

 

Her answer to Andy's question about what she's not good at was also grating.  She's not good at "backing down."  She's heavily invested in the strong woman persona at all costs. She may not be good at having empathy for women who aren't independent in the way she defines it.  Her reunion dress totally confused me. Like Xena, Woman Warrior showing up in a Pat Nixon circa 1968 dress.

 

I'll say one thing though -- She puts out a good product.  I've used both Spanx and now Yummy Tummy.  Her stuff is way more comfortable and effective, top and bottom. Sonja was silly not to listen to her advice and make good use of those contacts. 

[zoeysmom]

You bring up some really good points.  And that's why I asked before if anyone thought Lu was being a bit too rough.  Have to admit I enjoyed watching Lu shooting down all the bullshit.  Sure, Sonja's bullshit & babble can be entertaining, but it can also be annoying & downright maddening.  She's always trying to make her bullshit cutesy.  The Grey Gardens comparison is hardly cutesy, but Sonja was trying to make it seem like it was adorable.  Honestly, I was glad Lu shot that crap down quick by shouting "They were mentally ill.".  Now on the other hand, I didn't enjoy Kristen's singing that Sonja is delusional.  It seemed mean to me -- and just a ploy to defend Dickhead.

 

Mrs. Peel -sorry quote function isn't working.

 

Right before they went to Scary Island Sonja mentioned she had modeled to which Jill replied she was too short to have been a model.  I think Sonja, in perhaps the most round about way in the world, was trying to explain that she had kept her business, much like her daughter, off the show.  Whether she earned the money modeling or branding (haha) Sonja was able to buy a fairly nice apartment with her "earnings".  Carole knows Sonja was far more than a hostess at  restaurant.  There was a story written about her how she was a connector. So in Sonja's mind, feeble as it may seem, she has done things similar to Josh and Heather.  BTW does anyone remember Josh's hiring advice to Sonja-hire someone for $30,000.oo to do it-just like he did. Josh also managed to close down his marketing company in 10 days and move across the country-so I don't buy his so much better than.

 

LuAnn bulldozing through Ramona and Sonja's statements is what she does.  With Bravo's gift of editing who knows if they went into or if LuAnn cried foul because it would be talking about her children.  LuAnn's children do need someone to stay with them-regardless of their age-if for nothing else to protect Luann's home form becoming party central.  LuAnn made comments throughout the season how Sonja made no sense.  I believe the discord between Sonja and LuAnn occurred during the contract negotiations and there may be a little bit of truth to LuAnn being jealous (a word LuAnn threw out first) of Sonja being a RH and LuAnn being a friend. 

 

I don't think Aviva and Ramona spend any time together.  I think theirs is probably more of an acquaintanceship vs. Carole and Heather who have developed a real friendship.  I would hope Ramona would not being using someone's inhaler.  Aviva got one thing right-don't use other people's meds.

 

Scoobie-

I caught the look on Carole's face and I don't know she appreciated LuAnn's comment.  The Grey Garden ladies are her MIL's relatives.  Sonja hardly lives in the rubble they did. I think it was Sonja's way of being polite about real people.  If Andy had said a fictional character (like Blanche DuBois) Sonja might have had a different response.  I also have to remind myself that Sonja is in BK and may be restricted on what she can spend and where.  That is why her business opportunities make me laugh-she can't do anything without the Chapter 11 Trustee's approval outside of normal day to day expenditures.  No one is going to fund a Sonja project because there is such a high risk of it becoming an asset of the BK estate.  So the freebies Josh and Heather hand out are just that freebies.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Well, I'm not so sure I share your Sonja love, zoeysmom.  I do think she can be entertaining, but I don't like her history of being a con artist.  I don't hate her or even especially dislike her.  She's certainly not mean or evil like Veevs or intentionally vicious or carelessly rude like Moaner (except for the pot shots at Lu -- and there must be some specific reasons for that we don't know about).

 

So there's a really wacky rumor going around now that everyone is gonna get the boot except for Sonja.  And get this -- the producers are gonna depend on Sonja to cast for others.  Could it be true?  Who knows?  But clearly, there may be others with Sonja love.

 

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/real.housewives.of.new.york.city.season.7.cast.sonja.morgan.the.new.casting.director/39173.htm

Edited August 1, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[LotusFlower]

Now honestly, does that gossip item make any sense to you?

ROL is the same gossip site that said George is getting a spin-off.

[OhGromit]

On this I firmly do NOT agree.  Poor dear cutesy adorable Sonja leaves out one major point -- how she deliberately defrauded that company.  Cute & adorable?  Idk, maybe I'm nuts, but fraud is neither cute nor adorable to me.  The woman is a con artist, but a cute, adorable & charming con artist.  Oh and I forgot horny.

 

The rest of her bullshit is mostly harmless.  It's up to her if she wants to put out this babble.  If anyone chooses to believe her nonsense, guess that's up to them.  I still don't like the intern stuff cuz it smacks to me of slavery & taking advantage of internship programs, which can be very worthwhile.  It's really annoying as fuck actually.  

 

I'm certain Andy Cohen loves Sonja's intern crap.  I saw a Youtube vid of him with his assistant, where she kidded him bout getting a raise for doing the vid with him & he got really nasty with her & pretty much said she's getting paid enough.  Nice guy, my ass.  I'm sure he thinks Sonja's intern storyline is as hilarious as George molesting every woman near him.

 

Agree with this times a thousand, on the Sonja issues AND the Andy issue.  IMHO, Andy seems to be a shit to his intern... what is that young woman's name, she's very talented and does the Ask Andy segment... I mean he REALLY shoots hostile stuff her way.  He's not a nice guy at all; again IMO, he's judgmental and is only nice to those he deems worthy, which means the rich, the famous, and his reality star "pets" (while they are useful to him) (kudos to Joan Rivers for coining "pets" in reference to the housewives).

[imjagain]

My side hurts from laughing at that ROL article!

Now Sonja can add casting director to the long list of things she does.

[ryebread]

ryebread, for whatever reason the link didn't work, but I imagine it's a link to the scene in the last episode when Heather finally had enough and stood up. As I said in that episode thread, I didn't see anything wrong there. I also don't see any "shrinking" from Carole or a "nervous gesture" or Ramona looking "embarassed."

Sorry.  Don't know why it didn't work.  But for clarity, Heather yelling at Carole happened right after Aviva tossed the folder at Heather.  Had nothing to do with Carole's book. Carole was just trying to comment on Aviva lying about her doctor. We will have to agree to disagree on Heather's intent toward Carole at that moment. Heather's face,  tone of voice, the hand gesture and then Carole and Ramona's reaction  made it clear, to me, that she wanted the floor and she was going to have it. 

Heather is bossy and a grand stander so I don't think her wanting the floor all the time - even if she's standing on a chair - is all that unusual.  For me, it's just annoying.  That would be tiring to be around all the time.

 http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-6/videos/aviva-drescher-throws-her-leg

[OhGromit]

Well, I'm not so sure I share your Sonja love, zoeysmom.  I do think she can be entertaining, but I don't like her history of being a con artist.  I don't hate her or even especially dislike her.  She's certainly not mean or evil like Veevs or intentionally vicious or carelessly rude like Moaner (except for the pot shots at Lu -- and there must be some specific reasons for that we don't know about).

 

So there's a really wacky rumor going around now that everyone is gonna get the boot except for Sonja.  And get this -- the producers are gonna depend on Sonja to cast for others.  Could it be true?  Who knows?  But clearly, there may be others with Sonja love.

 

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/real.housewives.of.new.york.city.season.7.cast.sonja.morgan.the.new.casting.director/39173.htm

 

I think those who think Sonja is just fun and cute and harmless don't know the facts of the fraud case.      

[panthergirl13]

You might think differently if you were married to Josh. I'd probably welcome being knocked out for a few hours, too! Actually, that sounds like a nice little vacation for BOTH of them.

True.

 

Well for their 50th anniversary he can give her a colostomy bag. (A Birkin, of course!) I KEED...I KEED.... they'll never make it to their 50th.

[FozzyBear]

Her answer to Andy's question about what she's not good at was also grating. She's not good at "backing down." She's heavily invested in the strong woman persona at all costs. She may not be good at having empathy for women who aren't independent in the way she defines it. Her reunion dress totally confused me. Like Xena, Woman Warrior showing up in a Pat Nixon circa 1968 dress.

Man that annoyed me too. It's such a humble brag pat on the back. I mean really? You couldn't come up with one sincere thing? Not even one? You're just super good at everything? My go to is always spelling. I'm a lousy speller. It's no secret that spell check is my best friend. But not for Heather, she wins national spelling bees! What's your biggest flaw, Heather? I can be too awesome.

[Midnight Cheese]

"Connector" and "beej distributor" are synonyms as far as Sonja is concerned, I'm convinced.  There's no way a valued 'connector' is fired after a campaign of sorts of the wives of the men who had lunch at a lunchtime power restaurant if she was just 'connecting' in a platonic way. 

 

Carole or someone else mentioned that John Morgan is Sonja's second husband.  Given her behavior I am not at all convinced that she purchased anything, including any real property, on her own instead of being supported in a big way by a husband.  She lacks total credibility for me, and for me, Sonja has pulled this "I'm better than people who never had yachts" bullshit throughout her time on the show, she just wasn't a total mess in her first season.  The dull and un-missed Cindy Barshop had her dead to rights with noting that Sonja's attitude all came from landing a golden dick, even if it wasn't a 'til-death golden dick.

[comatoast]

"Connector" and "beej distributor" are synonyms as far as Sonja is concerned, I'm convinced.  There's no way a valued 'connector' is fired after a campaign of sorts of the wives of the men who had lunch at a lunchtime power restaurant if she was just 'connecting' in a platonic way. 

 

Carole or someone else mentioned that John Morgan is Sonja's second husband.  Given her behavior I am not at all convinced that she purchased anything, including any real property, on her own instead of being supported in a big way by a husband.  She lacks total credibility for me, and for me, Sonja has pulled this "I'm better than people who never had yachts" bullshit throughout her time on the show, she just wasn't a total mess in her first season.  The dull and un-missed Cindy Barshop had her dead to rights with noting that Sonja's attitude all came from landing a golden dick, even if it wasn't a 'til-death golden dick.

She was a connector of her mouth to golden dicks?