Trials and Tribulations of Juicy and Tre...

[technorebel]

In re-watching the first season, there's a scene where Teresa visits Joe at his Stucco business.  It was a small office located in a rundown building at the end of a rundown block.  Nothing about the business indicated that Joe could own a multi-million dollar home.  It all looked very modest.  I don't know why I didn't get the disconnect between his small business and their flashy lifestyle at the time.  They had me and a lot of people fooled I guess.

[druzy]

In re-watching the first season, there's a scene where Teresa visits Joe at his Stucco business.  It was a small office located in a rundown building at the end of a rundown block.  Nothing about the business indicated that Joe could own a multi-million dollar home.  It all looked very modest.  I don't know why I didn't get the disconnect between his small business and their flashy lifestyle at the time.  They had me and a lot of people fooled I guess.

Didn't he have something like lawn furniture in his "office"?

[amarante]

Are you kidding? That's what their lawyers are for.

 

 

This isn't what lawyers are for LOL. A lawyer is only as effective as their client enables them to be.

 

Their criminal attorney just as their bankruptcy attorney would have told them the forms had to list everything under penalty of perjury. However, they are not responsible for ensuring the accuracy of what is on the forms. How could they be - lawyers don't go to people's home anymore than your tax attorney/tax preparer double checks to make sure you have given him/her all of your income sources. 

 

Do the lawyers know that the Juicy's didn't put down a pool table or whatever else. Lawyers deliberately do not sign off on stuff like this because of the possibility of being deceived.

 

This isn't a gray area in which one is attempting to value a business and you call in an expert. The bankruptcy petition by the Juicys was equally stupid - and really their whole fraud scheme wasn't very sophisticated as it consisted of lying about one's income - hardly Madoff material. 

Edited October 6, 2014 by amarante

[WordsWordsWords]

This is my very first posting/reply here (though I've been reading for months), and I don't know how to do that quoting thing.

 

My thought on why Joe Guidice keeps on lying, on television and everywhere else: He can't help himself. He's been lying about everything for so long he doesn't even remember what the truth is 75 percent of the time.

[ButterQueen]

Regarding the G's having someone buy the mansion for them at a low price--bankruptcy sale... I don't see that happening at all. They will not have enough money to cover taxes and utilities, much less mortgage payments.

[ToukieSmith]

In re-watching the first season, there's a scene where Teresa visits Joe at his Stucco business.  It was a small office located in a rundown building at the end of a rundown block.  Nothing about the business indicated that Joe could own a multi-million dollar home.  It all looked very modest.  I don't know why I didn't get the disconnect between his small business and their flashy lifestyle at the time.  They had me and a lot of people fooled I guess.

 

You cannot really determine whether someone has a successful business based on the look and/or the location of their office.  Some business people keep their expenses low by renting a cheap place.

Edited October 6, 2014 by ToukieSmith

[AnnA]

Regarding the G's having someone buy the mansion for them at a low price--bankruptcy sale... I don't see that happening at all. They will not have enough money to cover taxes and utilities, much less mortgage payments.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I was curious about the taxes on that gaudy house.  The real estate agent showing Tre a house said they were $60,000. Does anyone know if they paid them?

Edited October 6, 2014 by AnnA

[LotusFlower]

No, I'm not kidding. The lawyers didn't fill out the asset form and those omissions were what kept Teresa from getting probation, according to the judge. So what I am saying is even if the lawyers say, "fill out the asset form very carefully. Do not omit anything, cars, jewelry, construction equipment, new atvs, etc. Do you understand me?" and Teresa and Joe nod their heads up and down and swear to god that they are going to disclose everything. Then they take the forms home, throw them on the desk with a note to get it done before Oct. 2.  They take it out the night before, look at it and go, hmmm, what were we supposed to do with this again?" and "He definitely said construction equipment and atvs are not assets," and Teresa says, "yeah, that's right. I think I remember him saying that too." That's what I actually think goes on in that house. I think they are really really really really really really dum. And that they don't even know how to spell the word dumb, either.

 

The lawyers were not responsible for filling out the forms, obviously, because I expect that they would have been held somewhat accountable for them by the judge. It wasn't the lawyer's job to fill it out. Maybe to ask the Guidices to hand it in ahead of the court date so they could review it. Maybe they asked them to do that, and they still never did it and the lawyers just let them hang themselves.

This is exactly what lawyers are for. It's similar to accountants. Most people don't know tax laws and the ins-and-outs-of taxes, so we hire accountants to guide us through tax time, and even to complete our tax returns. But everybody has to sign their tax returns, and it is always the tax payer, and not the accountant, who is ultimately responsible.

Similarly, Joe and Teresa were ultimately responsible for everything that happened in court last Thursday, as we know from the sentences, as well as the judge addressing them and not their lawyers. However, since this case resulted in a plea deal as opposed to a trial, the entirety of their work involved the plea and the sentencing hearing, and the pre-sentencing report to the Probation dept. was HUGELY instrumental to this. No lawyer would ever hand a very technical, 300+ page report to a client and say "fill this out and send it in. See ya!" It is their very job to go over it with their clients, and at the very least, to review it before it's submitted.

I think a more probable scenario is that the lawyers tried to work with Joe and Teresa on the report, but could only get so much from them. Both of them are crooked to the core, and I think they truly thought that if they didn't list any assets, no one would know. I think Teresa's deep level of denial, as well as Joe's alcoholism, also played a part in how sloppy the report was. Joe's own lawyer said his client showed up drunk to their appointments. What's a lawyer supposed to do with lying, still cheating, drunk clients like this?

[Lablover27]

You cannot really determine whether someone has a successful business based on the look and/or the location of their office.  Some business people keep their expenses low by renting a cheap place.

 

This is so true.  Try to keep the overhead low. 

 

I can't tell you how many depositions I've sat in with my boss when we have come up with information about the defendant.  The look on their attorney's face - stark white "Let's take a break."  Or I've seen it the other way around.  Client's not telling us the truth i.e., have you been in prior accidents?  "No.  None." The truth always comes out. 

 

My favorite was a sexual harassment case.  We represented the employer.  What the gal didn't know is we had her post its left on this man's desk "Oh, my neck hurts, I need a rub down."  "I left my shirt at your house."  "My sister noticed my hickey."  "I'm feeling horney."  "You look hot today."  I think I actually felt sorry for her attorney.  Video taped the deposition.  She started crying.  Dismissed.  Boy was her attorney pissed off! 

[Auntie Anxiety]

 

I think Teresa's deep level of denial, as well as Joe's alcoholism, also played a part in how sloppy the report was.

With a couple of side orders of entitlement.

[LilaFowler]

I'll never understand how he is not a citizen or was living here on such seemingly tenuous status for so long (and being married to a US citizen).

[BostonBlonde]

See? I knew, eventually, RHONJ would be educational. If nothing else, ALL of these fools have made me appreciate my non famous, criminal activity free, debt under $500 trillion dollars life. 

 

Let's all gather round & have a group hug. I'll begin...Kumbaya, my Lord...C'mon sing along....

Edited October 6, 2014 by BostonBlonde

[WireWrap]

But why keep up the lie? The cat was out of the bag. He is not a U.S. citizen, and may be deported because of it. Why challenge it in an interview, when he knows it's not true?

Maybe the drunk theory is the answer. Although part of me still thinks it's a combination of dumb + drunk = not knowing what being a citizen means. I keep thinking of that scene with Joe and Rosie going over one of the girl's homework. It was shocking how uneducated he was. (although he was probably drunk in that scene as well!)

Both Joe and Rosie were drinking Scotch over ice in that scene, they were both drunk. I even think Gia says they were drunk in that scene as well! 

[LotusFlower]

Both Joe and Rosie were drinking Scotch over ice in that scene, they were both drunk. I even think Gia says they were drunk in that scene as well!

Do you really think he'd know the answers to those questions sober? I don't. I really think there's a level of stupid there that's kinda off the charts.

On a related note, on WWHL tonight, Andy revealed the person who asked in the HW audition process whether anyone could be indicted by being on the show as Joe Giudice. (Andy wrote about this in his book, and I'm not sure if it was here or at TWOP, but there was a big guessing game over it). Again, you have to be really stupid to a) ask that question; and b) have the background to ask that question and still go on the show!. Ah, the fame bug!

[WireWrap]

Regarding the G's having someone buy the mansion for them at a low price--bankruptcy sale... I don't see that happening at all. They will not have enough money to cover taxes and utilities, much less mortgage payments.

 

This is where it will get interesting again. If Joe is able to keep up with the house payment and all that goes with it, everyone will know they hid money/cash somewhere. Didn't Joe lug a large suitcase up the hill to his families house in Italy? Of course they could have been gifts for his Italian family but Bravo would have shown them opening the gifts or Teresa would have either talked about it in her interview or on her blog but she never mentioned gifts for anyone. IMO, just mine, I really believe that Teresa and Joe have money hidden somewhere, be it Italy or buried in their backyard.

[WireWrap]

Do you really think he'd know the answers to those questions sober? I don't. I really think there's a level of stupid there that's kinda off the charts.

On a related note, on WWHL tonight, Andy revealed the person who asked in the HW audition process whether anyone could be indicted by being on the show as Joe Giudice. (Andy wrote about this in his book, and I'm not sure if it was here or at TWOP, but there was a big guessing game over it). Again, you have to be really stupid to a) ask that question; and b) have the background to ask that question and still go on the show!. Ah, the fame bug!

 

LOL. I do NOT think either Joe OR Rosie would know the answers. I was pointing out that he WAS drunk in that scene as well. I do NOT think Joe was an alcoholic when the show first started but by the end of season 1, he was starting to slide into that abyss. I really think that he was a functioning alcoholic by the time they filed for BK and were forced to withdraw it. I am not so sure about him "functioning" now though. I suspect he drinks from sunup to pass out each night.

[LotusFlower]

LOL. I do NOT think either Joe OR Rosie would know the answers. I was pointing out that he WAS drunk in that scene as well. I do NOT think Joe was an alcoholic when the show first started but by the end of season 1, he was starting to slide into that abyss. I really think that he was a functioning alcoholic by the time they filed for BK and were forced to withdraw it. I am not so sure about him "functioning" now though. I suspect he drinks from sunup to pass out each night.

Oh I totally agree. And you want to know what's funny? As angry (and ok - obsessed) as I've been over this tax fraud case, that's nothing compared to my vitriol towards Joe for the drunk driving and fake ID case. It's been over 4 years, and he still hasn't pled or gone to trial. According to words from his own mouth, he drives drunk all the time, and laughs about it. He really has no regard for the law.

[Lablover27]

LOL. I do NOT think either Joe OR Rosie would know the answers. I was pointing out that he WAS drunk in that scene as well. I do NOT think Joe was an alcoholic when the show first started but by the end of season 1, he was starting to slide into that abyss. I really think that he was a functioning alcoholic by the time they filed for BK and were forced to withdraw it. I am not so sure about him "functioning" now though. I suspect he drinks from sunup to pass out each night.

 

It would be a cold day in hell before Mr. Lab gets drunk and tells his daughter to get out of the way and then do a drunken somersault face plant and knock out a tooth. 

Because....

 

#1 he's cheap and wouldn't want to pay for it

# 2 he has to go to work the next day and get yelled at by judges, clients, opposing counsel ~ no drinking.

#3 he needs his beauty sleep

#4  he would never embarrass his daughter like that 

 

I think Joe is probably hitting it big time now.  Trying to be comfortably numb.  Very sad.  I know I'm not in their home.  I hope I am wrong for those "four beautiful girls".

 

But if his attorney said he needs rehab, shouldn't he take steps to get into rehab? 

Edited October 6, 2014 by Lablover27

[WireWrap]

 

 

 

 

It would be a cold day in hell before Mr. Lab gets drunk and tells his daughter to get out of the way and then do a drunken somersault face plant and knock out a tooth. 

Because....

 

#1 he's cheap and wouldn't want to pay for it

# 2 he has to go to work the next day and get yelled at by judges, clients, opposing counsel ~ no drinking.

#3 he needs his beauty sleep

#4  he would never embarrass his daughter like that 

 

I think Joe is probably hitting it big time now.  Trying to be comfortably numb.  Very sad.  I know I'm not in their home.  I hope I am wrong for those "four beautiful girls".

 

But if his attorney said he needs rehab, shouldn't he take steps to get into rehab? 

 I think Joe likes being "numb", I think that is how he tunes out Teresa and her screeching at him. I hope for the girls sake, that he sobers up before Teresa goes on "vacation" because he will be the only parent in the home with the girls for a year but I don't see him doing it. Most likely he will have either his mother or mother in-law move in and take care of them for him. SMH

Edited October 6, 2014 by WireWrap

[LotusFlower]

I agree that the mother/mother-in-laws will step up and take care of the girls, with maybe help from Joe's brother and his wife. But Joe will be in over his head, and will probably be drinking night and day. I doubt he'll sober up, but even if he does - kind of bad timing for him to go to rehab. The judge staggering the sentences was done specifically to keep a parent at home with the kids. Joe's lawyer's candor about Joe's alcoholism was one of the weirdest things that came out of last week's hearing. The lawyer describes Joe as an alcoholic, and the judge then puts him in charge of caring for the kids while the mother is in lock-up.

[Lablover27]

Yeah.  So sad.  Homework, projects, P.E. clothes, lunches, laundry, grocery shopping, taking and picking up and any other activities.  Joe please stay clean.  He can't even get up for Christmas morning

 

Hey, can he drive now????

Edited October 6, 2014 by Lablover27

[WireWrap]

I agree that the mother/mother-in-laws will step up and take care of the girls, with maybe help from Joe's brother and his wife. But Joe will be in over his head, and will probably be drinking night and day. I doubt he'll sober up, but even if he does - kind of bad timing for him to go to rehab. The judge staggering the sentences was done specifically to keep a parent at home with the kids. Joe's lawyer's candor about Joe's alcoholism was one of the weirdest things that came out of last week's hearing. The lawyer describes Joe as an alcoholic, and the judge then puts him in charge of caring for the kids while the mother is in lock-up.

IMO, just mine, it would have made more sense and been safer for the girls to have both Teresa and Joe serve at the same time. There are enough family members willing to step in and care for the girls for 1 year. On this, the judge made a big mistake. JMO

Yeah.  So sad.  Homework, projects, P.E. clothes, lunches, laundry, grocery shopping, taking and picking up and any other activities.  Joe please stay clean.  He can't even get up for Christmas morning

 

Hey, can he drive now????

 

Joe's Attorney just put him on blast for the local police! I hope they were paying close attention to that comment and/or the Federal Prosecutor informed them of what he said. I will not be surprised if I read/hear that Joe was arrested for DUI once again while Teresa is behind bars. Of course, he may also be in NJ State prison for the DL Fraud, which he goes to court on the 11th (next week). The State may decide not to allow any sentence to run  concurrent to/with his Federal time after hearing this statement from his own Lawyer and offer him a 1 year sentence to start immediately or close to when Teresa goes in.

[LotusFlower]

Of course, he may also be in NJ State prison for the DL Fraud, which he goes to court on the 11th (next week). The State may decide not to allow any sentence to run  concurrent to/with his Federal time after hearing this statement from his own Lawyer and offer him a 1 year sentence to start immediately or close to when Teresa goes in.

The next date for the state DUI case is a hearing (no trial or verdict), but it looks like they reached a plea. I also read that the deal allows the sentence to run concurrently with his stint in the Federal pen. If this is true, then he basically gets no punishment for the entire offense. The most disheatening part of this is that this came from the persecutor's office, as opposed to all the spin we're used to from Joe's defense team. I hope what I read is wrong. But in any event, since his DUI is part of the state case, maybe rehab will be mentioned.

[diorella78]

Do you really think he'd know the answers to those questions sober? I don't. I really think there's a level of stupid there that's kinda off the charts.

On a related note, on WWHL tonight, Andy revealed the person who asked in the HW audition process whether anyone could be indicted by being on the show as Joe Giudice. (Andy wrote about this in his book, and I'm not sure if it was here or at TWOP, but there was a big guessing game over it). Again, you have to be really stupid to a) ask that question; and b) have the background to ask that question and still go on the show!. Ah, the fame bug!

Aha, I knew it! lol. I knew it had to be Joe. I read Andy's book and the way it was worded, IIRC, was that Teresa agreed to be on but then backed out a couple of times. Then "someone" asked if they would ever be wiretapped or indicted before finally agreeing. I couldn't imagine Teresa thinking of wiretaps...lol. I also couldn't imagine the Manzos asking such a question....not because Al didn't have anything to hide but I would imagine they were smart enough to have the contracts looked at and not open themselves to scrutiny for such questions. 

 

I mean, IMO, asking such questions isn't far from asking "right, so is anybody going to search my basement or rip up the floorboards in my house? Just askin'....."

Edited October 6, 2014 by diorella78

[LotusFlower]

Aha, I knew it! lol. I knew it had to be Joe. I read Andy's book and the way it was worded, IIRC, was that Teresa agreed to be on but then backed out a couple of times. Then "someone" asked if they would ever be wiretapped or indicted before finally agreeing. I couldn't imagine Teresa thinking of wiretaps...lol. I also couldn't imagine the Manzos asking such a question....not because Al didn't have anything to hide but I would imagine they were smart enough to have the contracts looked at and not open themselves to scrutiny for such questions. 

 

I mean, IMO, asking such questions isn't far from asking "right, so is anybody going to search my basement or rip up the floorboards in my house? Just askin'....."

Thank you! Me too! It was always so obvious to me that it was Joe - I mean, come on! And I love your last line - it's exactly the level of stupidity I'm talking about here!

[WireWrap]

The next date for the state DUI case is a hearing (no trial or verdict), but it looks like they reached a plea. I also read that the deal allows the sentence to run concurrently with his stint in the Federal pen. If this is true, then he basically gets no punishment for the entire offense. The most disheatening part of this is that this came from the persecutor's office, as opposed to all the spin we're used to from Joe's defense team. I hope what I read is wrong. But in any event, since his DUI is part of the state case, maybe rehab will be mentioned.

I hope the state makes alcohol rehab happen right away and not wait until he is in Federal prison.  He needs to go somewhere to dry out that requires a longer stay than 90 days. He needs twice that amount to get himself under control before he is in charge of those girls as their sole caretaker, even if he has 1 of the grandmothers "help" him. God help those kids if he does not get completely sober before then!

[Barb23]

This is my very first posting/reply here (though I've been reading for months), and I don't know how to do that quoting thing.

My thought on why Joe Guidice keeps on lying, on television and everywhere else: He can't help himself. He's been lying about everything for so long he doesn't even remember what the truth is 75 percent of the time.

Agree! My husband says it sounds like they are both pathological liars. He doesn't even watch the show & came to this conclusion from bits & pieces I've told him. (Not much because he keeps telling me he's not interested. Lol)

I thought the same thing at the time regarding the stucco business. I remember Tre saying in one of the first episodes that they didn't have a pool at Chateau Fraud because they have a beach house. I wondered how they could afford this lifestyle as a younger couple. Tre said that Joe was an entrepreneur & had "biznisses".

Off subject but funny - today I'm getting ads in between posts for a fraud attorney & another for a site to check your arrest record.

[Grey Goose]

Since there are loving, local family members, I am thinking the Giudices are missing the boat.  They should serve concurrently and then in a year, Teresa is home and Joe has worked 1/3 of his term off.  I would put them in a house with the healthiest grandmother, and get a rotation of Joe's brother/sil, Rosie, the Gorgas to help.  

[HumblePi]

If the lawyers told them to list all their assets or they may get more prison time by not complying, why wouldn't they list anything...at all?  I just don't get it...

 

Not excusing her, but maybe she trusted Joe 100% to take care of all finances and never even thought twice...even up to sentencing.  Maybe Joe was trying to take all the blame because she just signed whatever he put in front of her, at least those documents that he didn't forge himself.  The alleged mailbox incident makes me wonder how bad his temper might be when he is crossed.

This has crossed my mind many times regarding the relationship between Teresa and Joe. Yes, Teresa wants the finest things, big house, clothes, jewelry all that is of paramount importance to her and I think she would tolerate anything, yes...even spousal abuse, to get it. Just the demeanor she has with Joe tells me there's something to it. To me, he looks like a man with a short fuse.

Edited October 6, 2014 by HumblePi

[zoeysmom]

A comment or two about Joe Giudice-he has been a reprobate since he was a juvenile.  Joe has mentioned that he would not go along with school ordered counseling so this is what you get when a juvenile isn't corralled at a young age with appropriate intervention.  By 19 or 20 he was charged and convicted of beating and kicking a woman, then there are something like 40 driver license suspensions, two DUIs, the state identity fraud case (a felony) and finally the federal charges.  This idea that he is charged with the minor children is a farce.

 

 I really don't see Bravo wanting to film one more stupid Giudice Christmas.  We have seen them do Christmas when they are rich, when they are bankrupt, when they are faced with possible prison time and now we are suppose to watch a Christmas when Teresa is going away two weeks after the holiday?  I mean it is not as if they ever tell the children the truth about anything.   A show focusing on Joe raising the girls hold zero interest for me.  From what I have seen-Joe cooks far more often than Teresa.  The kids ride a school bus-so let's not pretend they have to be driven to school.  The biggest obstacle Joe should be facing is right-sizing their lifestyle.  Another year is $144,000.00 in house payments, probaly another $10,000.00 in car lease payments and I can only imagine what their car insurance runs a year with Joe's driving record.  Would we see the Maserati, and Corvette being put on the market for a reasonable family van?  Would we see Joe strapping on a contractor's belt and doing an honest day's work-the answer is no, as long as they have the easy money of reality TV. 

 

I am quite certain there is something in Teresa's contract that allows Bravo an exclusive if Teresa is unable to perform under the contractual duties.  SO bravo keeps their exclusive without having to pay her.  Does anyone really want to hear Joe have a discussion with Milania about why mom's in prison?  No winners there.

Edited October 6, 2014 by zoeysmom

[Barb23]

I read too that if Juicy gets time for DUI he would serve it concurrently.

I watched the Napa/camping episode yesterday & Juicy didn't have a clue what the Golden Gate Bridge was. He could barely pronounce it & kept saying "is it gold?" Just dumb and/or drunk.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Barb23

[superyooper]

He's definitely dumb, but I think Joe --and his parents, and Teresa--thought there were advantages to not being a U.S. citizen (perhaps tax advantages, perhaps dual citizenship for the girls, perhaps they thought if they got caught criminally they could just "go back to Italy" instead of going to prison.)

 

He got married as an Italian marrying an American citizen. He travelled to Italy on an Italian, not U.S. passport. He has to do paperwork to legally stay in the U.S. He knows he's not a U.S. citizen. He's just a liar, like Teresa, and they both are common crooks, nothing special.

 

that makes me wonder - has he been paying taxes in Italy?  I'd assume that if he was earning a living here he'd also have to pay taxes in his "home" country.

[Padma]

Aha, I knew it! lol. I knew it had to be Joe. I read Andy's book and the way it was worded, IIRC, was that Teresa agreed to be on but then backed out a couple of times. Then "someone" asked if they would ever be wiretapped or indicted before finally agreeing. I couldn't imagine Teresa thinking of wiretaps...lol. I also couldn't imagine the Manzos asking such a question....not because Al didn't have anything to hide but I would imagine they were smart enough to have the contracts looked at and not open themselves to scrutiny for such questions. 

 

I mean, IMO, asking such questions isn't far from asking "right, so is anybody going to search my basement or rip up the floorboards in my house? Just askin'....."

True. But what does it say about Andy Cohen and Bravo that--tipped off by that question that the Giudices have something illegal to hide--they go ahead and sign them anyway?

[luckyroll3]

Andy said on WWHL last night that Joe asked if anyone had ever been indicted for things revealed as a result of taking part in one of these shows.  Andy said it made them question if he (Joe) had anything to hide.  You just know that Andy all of the other producers/network heads were beaming on the inside at the potential for this to become a train wreck beyond the show and that has been fulfilled.

 

But what does it say about Andy Cohen and Bravo that--tipped off by that question that the Giudices have something illegal to hide--they go ahead and sign them anyway?

 

That they are evil geniuses?

[DeeplyShallow]

A comment or two about Joe Giudice-he has been a reprobate since he was a juvenile. Joe has mentioned that he would not go along with school ordered counseling so this is what you get when a juvenile isn't corralled at a young age with appropriate intervention. By 19 or 20 he was charged and convicted of beating and kicking a woman, then there are something like 40 driver license suspensions, two DUIs, the state identity fraud case (a felony) and finally the federal charges. This idea that he is charged with the minor children is a farce.

I really don't see Bravo wanting to film one more stupid Giudice Christmas. We have seen them do Christmas when they are rich, when they are bankrupt, when they are faced with possible prison time and now we are suppose to watch a Christmas when Teresa is going away two weeks after the holiday? I mean it is not as if they ever tell the children the truth about anything. A show focusing on Joe raising the girls hold zero interest for me. From what I have seen-Joe cooks far more often than Teresa. The kids ride a school bus-so let's not pretend they have to be driven to school. The biggest obstacle Joe should be facing is right-sizing their lifestyle. Another year is $144,000.00 in house payments, probaly another $10,000.00 in car lease payments and I can only imagine what their car insurance runs a year with Joe's driving record. Would we see the Maserati, and Corvette being put on the market for a reasonable family van? Would we see Joe strapping on a contractor's belt and doing an honest day's work-the answer is no, as long as they have the easy money of reality TV.

I am quite certain there is something in Teresa's contract that allows Bravo an exclusive if Teresa is unable to perform under the contractual duties. SO bravo keeps their exclusive without having to pay her. Does anyone really want to hear Joe have a discussion with Milania about why mom's in prison? No winners there.

This post really hit home for me. While I knew all of this before through various posts, seeing it summarized just makes it more clear to me that he got a very lenient sentence. I am not surprised that he refused counseling. He's an old fashioned man from an old fashioned family. They don't do counseling, period. That is weak. With so many priors AND not being a citizen, how HOW is he still walking free? HOW is it ONLY 41 months but first a year at home with his children? HOW???

I have no sympathy or empathy for the elder Guidices and Gorgas. Shady begets shady. I feel for the girls, because if their options are a stupid alcoholic felon, a stupid materialistic felon and the people who raised said felons as their guardians, then that is a travesty.

[qtpye]

Someone on this thread posted a picture of the family with their four beautiful daughters (I really have nothing against the girls) taking a vacation in the Dominican Republic in 2013.  First, how did they get there if they did not have their passports, second, did they go there to hide money, and third, how the hell can they afford to take a lavish vacation when they are under so much legal and financial scrutiny?

[poeticlicensed]

If you have a past, as Joe did, or were currently engaged in shady activity, why in the fresh hell would you agree to appear on a TV show??? Then Tre gets on TV and shows off her Gucci plates and pays with furniture with a wad of cash and when they go to Italy runs up and down the street squealing at the Chanel store? All the while they are having complaints lodged against them by contractors and bill collectors, and the house of cards is unfolding the whole time the are on TV? It's certifiable. 

 

So tonight on WWHL Joe is crying? Really? Like you had no idea the whole thing might come tumbling down on you because you and your wife wanted the spotlight? Joe Gui is a wanna be thug. Anyone who is mobbed up will tell you that you don't put yourself on TV, you don't make a public spectacle of yourself. That's what brought John Gotti down. Joe Gui is a wanna be and now he is a baby. I don't know how much Tre knew, but she damn sure signed stuff. She doesn't strike me as being very bright and she trusted her husband. Now instead of blaming the govt, she needs to look at teh guy next to her. Maybe she will emerge as a more saavy person as a result of this. 

 

As far as their sentences,  for the girls it would have been better to have Joe go first. If nothing else Tre can take care of her kids. She also could potentially work, and she has enough of a fanbase left  that she could draw a crowd. But I'm sure they did it because Tre sentence was short and Joe is facing the potential of more time with the DUI etc. My best guess is that they will move in with extended family.  

Edited October 6, 2014 by poeticlicensed

[zoeysmom]

This post really hit home for me. While I knew all of this before through various posts, seeing it summarized just makes it more clear to me that he got a very lenient sentence. I am not surprised that he refused counseling. He's an old fashioned man from an old fashioned family. They don't do counseling, period. That is weak. With so many priors AND not being a citizen, how HOW is he still walking free? HOW is it ONLY 41 months but first a year at home with his children? HOW???

I have no sympathy or empathy for the elder Guidices and Gorgas. Shady begets shady. I feel for the girls, because if their options are a stupid alcoholic felon, a stupid materialistic felon and the people who raised said felons as their guardians, then that is a travesty.

First 17 months at home as a practicing alcoholic that is what sticks in my craw.  Pre-sentencing Joe was ordered to submit to drug testing and I believe he is still under probation's and or Bureau of Corrections thumb for about another seven years or technically until all fines and restitution is paid.

 

To feel for Joe and Teresa parents is not on my scope.  They all seemed to have enjoyed the fruits of the ill-gotten gain.  I still maintain to get this family reunited as soon as possible both parents should report ASAP.  There is significant extended family to provide for the children and if nothing else maybe Teresa should use some of her post-sentencing loot to put the children in boarding school.  It would be far easier on the extended family to "raise" the children during school breaks. 

 

I fully expect that during Teresa's incarceration Joe will be arrested and trigger a compassionate release for Teresa-I am thinking by March.  One thing the Giudices have learned is crime does pay.

Someone on this thread posted a picture of the family with their four beautiful daughters (I really have nothing against the girls) taking a vacation in the Dominican Republic in 2013.  First, how did they get there if they did not have their passports, second, did they go there to hide money, and third, how the hell can they afford to take a lavish vacation when they are under so much legal and financial scrutiny?

I am going to guess it was over the Spring break prior to their indictment,  as to payment I am sure it was charged and will probably never be paid for.  They really haven't been allowed to leave the tri-state area since their plea change.

[Frankie]

If you have a past, as Joe did, or were currently engaged in shady activity, why in the fresh hell would you agree to appear on a TV show???

I could not agree more.

 

A lot of people on Facebook are going on about how they feel so sorry for Tre and Juicy.  I don't.  I feel sorry for us honest, hard-working citizens who barely get by and who would NEVER do the things that they have done.  I am not even angry or being overly judgmental, that's just kind of a matter-of-fact attitude.

[motorcitymom65]

One thing about this all that brings a smile to my face is the idea that Teresa will be pissed off because Melissa is spending time with her girls when she cannot. I believe firmly that Juicy is going to need a lot of help while Teresa is away. Sure, he has a brother and sister, but don't they both have 4 girls of their own? He is going to be outsourcing all kinds of things that need to get done, and one thing I do feel sure of is that Joey loves Tre's girls. I remember last year when they had one of the hearings, it was revealed that Melissa had been watching the Giudice girls while Juicy and Tre were in court. Melissa will be spending time with the girls, if for no other reason than to make herself look good. I think that the knowledge that she is locked away and Mel is entertaining her daughters, offering them a shoulder to cry on, will drive her crazier than anything else. She was pissed when she thought she joined "her" show.  She has always hated her and IMO been extremely jealous of her. Tre has always thought she was better than Mel, but now Teresa is a convicted Felon serving time in prison. For all that Mel has done, she is not this person (at least not yet) which might just drive Teresa over the edge. 

Edited October 6, 2014 by motorcitymom65

[zoeysmom]

If you have a past, as Joe did, or were currently engaged in shady activity, why in the fresh hell would you agree to appear on a TV show??? Then Tre gets on TV and shows off her Gucci plates and pays with furniture with a wad of cash and when they go to Italy runs up and down the street squealing at the Chanel store? All the while they are having complaints lodged against them by contractors and bill collectors, and the house of cards is unfolding the whole time the are on TV? It's certifiable. 

 

So tonight on WWHL Joe is crying? Really? Like you had no idea the whole thing might come tumbling down on you because you and your wife wanted the spotlight? Joe Gui is a wanna be thug. Anyone who is mobbed up will tell you that you don't put yourself on TV, you don't make a public spectacle of yourself. That's what brought John Gotti down. Joe Gui is a wanna be and now he is a baby. I don't know how much Tre knew, but she damn sure signed stuff. She doesn't strike me as being very bright and she trusted her husband. Now instead of blaming the govt, she needs to look at teh guy next to her. Maybe she will emerge as a more saavy person as a result of this. 

 

As far as their sentences,  for the girls it would have been better to have Joe go first. If nothing else Tre can take care of her kids. She also could potentially work, and she has enough of a fanbase left  that she could draw a crowd. But I'm sure they did it because Tre sentence was short and Joe is facing the potential of more time with the DUI etc. My best guess is that they will move in with extended family.  

After dealing with criminal defense defendants for a number of years I view the Giudices like embezzlement clients. We had one that was caught stealing from the city water department. The first steal was to cover an overdue phone bill with every intention of paying it back.  After getting away with it, the urge to steal becomes compelling-and after each grab they think they can pay it back  or they won't get caught.  Over a period of about 18 months this $20,000.00 a year clerk managed to embezzle well over $100,000.00. it was no longer about over due bills it was about beautiful clothes, a boat a much better car.  The last grab-the one that tipped the investigation was only for $50.00.  So it obviously had become habit over necessity.

 

I see the Giudice behaving similarly each loan fraud  was for the goal .of getting a true loan they could live with and living the straight life with fame and fortune.  Once Teresa flipped the table she knew-as evidenced by the book deal -the money would be rolling in.  Had it not been for the fraud judgment-which any prudent attorney would advise someone to file BK over-given what they originally declared on their BK documents.  The problem was they no longer wanted to be responsible for the   past due and bought the stories of really successful, famous people file BK to get a fresh start.  Much like the $20,000.00 a year clerk, they didn't even think there would be consequences if they just fudged a little bit (or in their case a lot) here and there because they had always gotten away with it and the money was rolling in. 

Much like the clerk stealing the last $50.00, Joe and Teresa could not resist hiding $78,000.00 of loot-just because.

[jinjer]

The only thing I can think of with Joe telling Andy he was a citizen is that he was trying to deny that he was here illegally.  

 

ITA that Joe and Teresa's attorneys should have hired a forensic accountant to go out and do an accounting of their assets.  We are not talking about attorneys handling a low-level $10,000 or even $50,000 drug case.  I would wager that the Giudices spent upwards of several hundred thousand dollars on these attorneys.  Dumb and dumber with a history of lying still would have signed off on the report - not the attorneys.  With so much at stake for Teresa - home detention/probation (as the judge said she considered) versus time in prison - it would have been worth it.  True you can't "make" your client do it, but these two were over a barrel and good criminal defense attorneys can make it happen.  

[merylinkid]

The more I think about these sentences, the madder I get.    Yeah, it was non-violent.   Yeah, prisons are full.   But damn, these people have done done one honest thing in their life.   They would still be committing fraud if they got caught.   Heck, they still are anyway with not filling out the forms right (I give them a pass on the $200K, I think she thought the Bravo payment would come through on time, not her fault they held it back.  Well, it is a little).   And still bald face lying to the judge at sentencing.

 

Same day as sentencing, my car died.   I missed all the fun because I was off getting a new one.   I was shaking in my boots that I would not qualify for a loan and I had to have a car.   It never once crossed my mind to lie about my income to qualify.   This was a used, cheap ass car.   (it's a very nice used cheap ass car).    Yet these morons lie to get millions of dollars and all they get is a few months?   They should at least have had to do time equal to the lenght of time of the fraud.   

[Higgins]

After dealing with criminal defense defendants for a number of years I view the Giudices like embezzlement clients. We had one that was caught stealing from the city water department. The first steal was to cover an overdue phone bill with every intention of paying it back.  After getting away with it, the urge to steal becomes compelling-and after each grab they think they can pay it back  or they won't get caught.  Over a period of about 18 months this $20,000.00 a year clerk managed to embezzle well over $100,000.00. it was no longer about over due bills it was about beautiful clothes, a boat a much better car.  The last grab-the one that tipped the investigation was only for $50.00.  So it obviously had become habit over necessity.

 

I see the Giudice behaving similarly each loan fraud  was for the goal .of getting a true loan they could live with and living the straight life with fame and fortune.  Once Teresa flipped the table she knew-as evidenced by the book deal -the money would be rolling in.  Had it not been for the fraud judgment-which any prudent attorney would advise someone to file BK over-given what they originally declared on their BK documents.  The problem was they no longer wanted to be responsible for the   past due and bought the stories of really successful, famous people file BK to get a fresh start.  Much like the $20,000.00 a year clerk, they didn't even think there would be consequences if they just fudged a little bit (or in their case a lot) here and there because they had always gotten away with it and the money was rolling in. 

Much like the clerk stealing the last $50.00, Joe and Teresa could not resist hiding $78,000.00 of loot-just because.

My daughter was a member of a competitive travel softball team that had our funds embezzled by the coach. I think he probably started exactly that way. He "borrowed" some money and then just couldn't stop himself. The team account had a debit card. He used it at the NFL Redskins store, the liquor store, he withdrew cash and in the end he embezzled more than $20,000 within a 3 month period. He failed to enter us in any of the tournaments he said he did so our girls were out for the entire season.

[amarante]

ITA that Joe and Teresa's attorneys should have hired a forensic accountant to go out and do an accounting of their assets.  We are not talking about attorneys handling a low-level $10,000 or even $50,000 drug case.

 

 

This was not some very complicated business that needed an accountant to verify. In that case, an attorney would ADVISE the client to hire someone to provide valuation at the client's expense. This is typically done for divorces. Or if there was any dispute about unreported income in which case the forensic accounts attempt to provide actual income based on the amount necessary to support their lifestyle. This is why money laundering exists - so that criminals have the ability to show a source of legitimate income and hide cash from their criminal enterprises.

However, there was no dispute evidently about the amount of income on which taxes were owed.  The Giudices really were not sophisticated financial fraudsters - they lied about their income to banks and on a bankruptcy petition. 

The Giudices lied about material objects - a pool table; an ATV and I think cars. But those are the kinds of assets that aren't tricky to report - you either have them or don't and a lawyer or forensic accountant is not supposed to act as a private detective and find assets their client isn't reporting.

[SoCal4Us]

amarante, I get what you're saying, but given the Giudice history of not listing assets, wouldn't their current attorneys consider that a red flag to be absolutely certain their clients understand the meaning of the form and how to fill it out?  And explain to them the consequences of not doing so?

[poeticlicensed]

I don't think they needed a forensic accountant either. It wasn't like they wove a complex scheme of holding companies and offshore money laundering. Basically, they forged W-2's to show income they didn't have to qualify for bigger and bigger loans they didn't pay back. There is no disputing that. What they were supposed to do for the last court date was to inventory their assets and leave nothing out. It's not the lawyer's responsibility to inventory assets. But if they couldn't figure out the damn form, tell your lawyer and they will hire someone to help you do it and bill it back to you. They were also supposed to appear with a check for 200K. I do not understand why their lawyer or someone in the office didn't triple check with them to make sure that the had the check in hand.  Again, not the lawyer's responsibility, but if they had let him know well ahead of time that they couldn't come up with the cash, he could have tried to do damage control. But they pulled up in a car that they didn't report, without  their disclosure fully completed and sans check. How did they think the judge was going to react? Just stupidity. 

 

but given the Giudice history of not listing assets, wouldn't their current attorneys consider that a red flag to be absolutely certain their clients understand the meaning of the form and how to fill it out?  And explain to them the consequences of not doing so?

 

I bet the lawyer went over it ad nauseum, they just didn't do it. 

Edited October 6, 2014 by poeticlicensed

[zoeysmom]

amarante, I get what you're saying, but given the Giudice history of not listing assets, wouldn't their current attorneys consider that a red flag to be absolutely certain their clients understand the meaning of the form and how to fill it out?  And explain to them the consequences of not doing so?

From the bits and pieces that came out they were ordered to Probation around March 4th, the pre-sentence report had to be released to the Court and parties 45 days before their original sentencing-date of July 8th.  That gave them a good six weeks after the plea to prepare.  Apparently, they told counsel and probation their CPA was backed up.  If I were their attorney I would assume that the CPA would have filled them out or offered assistance.  I seriously doubt there was ever a CPA.  The reality is-this is not a balance sheet.  If they have 10 checking accounts-you write the balance in each account as of the day they sign the form.  If they have 10 cars they write down the value-this is all easily done on line, you write down I have $2,000.00 worth of  jewelry, you assess the value of goods in your home off the last BK filing plus or minus anything you added or subtracted.   The probation officer is a neutral party.  If you have questions you ask.

 

What made things virtually impossible is after being given an extension, a generous one at that of 75 days the best they could do is turn over incomplete financials nearly 90 days after they were originally due?  Another continuance had to be granted in September because the government had not been given enough time to respond.  Finally the government had to run with it and their response wasn't filed until September 29th.  I am quite certain the Giudices were fishing for another continuances and the government was not having it.

 

Rarely, if ever, will attorneys fill out the forms and run the risk of being charged with perjury. 

 

As to the $200,000.00, Teresa and Joe had to have known they would either have the money by July 8th or they should not have agreed to the plea.  This is what has been disconcerting-no genuine remorse or real effort has been put into their plea.  I don't buy it was a processing problem.

[diorella78]

The only thing I can think of with Joe telling Andy he was a citizen is that he was trying to deny that he was here illegally.

 

Just to note, he was never here illegally. He was a LPR/Legal Permanent Resident, AKA a Green Card holder. People can remain as such if they choose, there's nothing illegal about not becoming a citizen. Why Joe Giu never became a citizen, though, could be for a number of reasons...most of which I assume had to do with his brushes with the law from years and years ago....not to mention seemingly being lazy or as others have mentioned, use it as an excuse not to pay taxes or do certain things, wherein he'd be wrong. lol....

 

I doubt Joe Giu paid any taxes back to the motherland because I feel he earned a lot under the table....aside from his shady declarations. Italy isn't too up on finding tax evaders since it's so commonplace to begin with. Someone outside the country would be low on the pole, and I can't imagine Joe Giu actually paid his Italian passport tax every year....and yet Italy never fined or voided his passport, evidently (that was always the 'threat', but said tax has just been abolished in the past months).

Edited October 6, 2014 by diorella78

[Raiderred]

 

My daughter was a member of a competitive travel softball team that had our funds embezzled by the coach. I think he probably started exactly that way. He "borrowed" some money and then just couldn't stop himself. The team account had a debit card. He used it at the NFL Redskins store, the liquor store, he withdrew cash and in the end he embezzled more than $20,000 within a 3 month period. He failed to enter us in any of the tournaments he said he did so our girls were out for the entire season.

Some people really have the balls to do this crap.  We had a family-mom and adult children that stole from our barrel racing association, about $20K and then they took off to another part of the state for a few years.  I was not in the association at the time and I don't know if anyone prosecuted them but they are now back in the area running their horses again. WHAT THE F?!?!