Nitpicking

[stan4]

In The Third Lorelai episode, Emily defends her re-gifting the coat rack by saying that it was never used and it was still in the crate.

 However, when Rory and Lorelai bring the rack into the house, Emily frets about its placement, trying to remember where it used to be and remarking that she should have marked the spot with tape.

[steff13]

I love that scene, though, if you watch Michel in the background trying not to laugh while Lorelai is teasing Emily (say it was a used present, like something she got at the junk store).  But you're right, yet another inconsistency.  

[stan4]

All scenes where Lorelai trolls/baits Emily crack me up.

[MatildaMoody]

So, I just caught the episode where Jess first comes to town. I am not sure if this is an actual nitpick. I just really hated that Jess was introduced to Rory and then, went into her room, started pawing through her books, and dismissed her trying to talk to him about said books or being open to her loaning him said books. Then, when he can't convince this girl he barely knows to climb out of her window with him to get away from those crazy grownups. You know, those grownups who are trying to feed and get to know him? He steels a beer and hangs out on the porch of the woman whose beer he stole. There was nothing about his initial meeting with Rory that said, "I like this girl and want to get to know her."

The other nitpick I have is in Hammers and Veils. Obviously, Lorelai didn't know that Sookie had already spilled the beans about the engagement. But, why didn't she start by saying she wanted to tell her earlier, but she wanted to wait until both Emily AND Richard were there and she could tell them in person, and that the previous week was bad timing because of Richard's blowup about Dean? Then, she could have said that she wanted to bring Max to dinner the next week. 

Instead, she stammers and stumbles out the news that she is getting married and when she doesn't get the response she wants, she has Max take her over so that she can throw a temper tantrum about it. 

[Katy M]

22 minutes ago, MatildaMoody said:

So, I just caught the episode where Jess first comes to town. I am not sure if this is an actual nitpick. I just really hated that Jess was introduced to Rory and then, went into her room, started pawing through her books, and dismissed her trying to talk to him about said books or being open to her loaning him said books. Then, when he can't convince this girl he barely knows to climb out of her window with him to get away from those crazy grownups. You know, those grownups who are trying to feed and get to know him? He steels a beer and hangs out on the porch of the woman whose beer he stole. There was nothing about his initial meeting with Rory that said, "I like this girl and want to get to know her."

The other nitpick I have is in Hammers and Veils. Obviously, Lorelai didn't know that Sookie had already spilled the beans about the engagement. But, why didn't she start by saying she wanted to tell her earlier, but she wanted to wait until both Emily AND Richard were there and she could tell them in person, and that the previous week was bad timing because of Richard's blowup about Dean? Then, she could have said that she wanted to bring Max to dinner the next week. 

Instead, she stammers and stumbles out the news that she is getting married and when she doesn't get the response she wants, she has Max take her over so that she can throw a temper tantrum about it. 

I can't remember. Had Lorelai ever mentioned Max to her parents.  If not, it's a little odd to get engaged to a man that you have never mentioned to your parents that you see every week.  I realize she doesn't want them all up in her business, but generally by the time you get that serious, they should at least have had a mention and maybe even a meet up.

I mean, honestly, the question "to whom?" should never have to be asked by your closest friends and family when you tell them you're getting married.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Katy M

[MatildaMoody]

Emily was well aware of who Max was, because of the fall out from "Paris is Burning." But, I have no idea if she was aware that they started seeing each other again. 

 

ETA: I always found Lorelai's need to be SO secretive about her life more than a little childish. She didn't have to share every detail, but how hard would it have been to say, "hey, I'm seeing someone." That bugged me about the Jason thing too. I mean, I always found Jason creepy and never got her attraction to him, but the childish lengths she went to keep that secret was just exhausting to watch.

Edited July 23, 2018 by MatildaMoody

[Katy M]

Yeah.  Exactly.  I understand not telling Emily, or Rory, every time she has a date.  Wait until it gets at least semi-serious.  There's no point in getting people excited or upset, as the case may be, until you know you like each other.  Plus, nobody would need the pressure Emily would bring to bear if Lorelai was dating someone she would approve of.  But, I would also think nobody would need the pressure of hiding.  Like when Jason shouted something after she answered Emily's call and vice versa.  You're an adult.  act like it.  

[andromeda331]

Didn't Lorelai explain at the end why she did that? She told Emily that she didn't tell her because she's always afraid that Emily will make her feel bad when something good happens to her and that when something bad happens to her Emily will say 'I told you so'. Although she does admit she's not sure if that's always fair.

[Anela]

11 hours ago, MatildaMoody said:

So, I just caught the episode where Jess first comes to town. I am not sure if this is an actual nitpick. I just really hated that Jess was introduced to Rory and then, went into her room, started pawing through her books, and dismissed her trying to talk to him about said books or being open to her loaning him said books. Then, when he can't convince this girl he barely knows to climb out of her window with him to get away from those crazy grownups. You know, those grownups who are trying to feed and get to know him? He steels a beer and hangs out on the porch of the woman whose beer he stole. There was nothing about his initial meeting with Rory that said, "I like this girl and want to get to know her."

The other nitpick I have is in Hammers and Veils. Obviously, Lorelai didn't know that Sookie had already spilled the beans about the engagement. But, why didn't she start by saying she wanted to tell her earlier, but she wanted to wait until both Emily AND Richard were there and she could tell them in person, and that the previous week was bad timing because of Richard's blowup about Dean? Then, she could have said that she wanted to bring Max to dinner the next week. 

Instead, she stammers and stumbles out the news that she is getting married and when she doesn't get the response she wants, she has Max take her over so that she can throw a temper tantrum about it. 

Jess was staring at her picture, I think, but I really don't like him when he first shows up. I wonder why Rory didn't treat him the way she treated Tristan. Unless it was because he was Luke's nephew. Her attraction to him became obvious after a while, but he was so obviously trying to break up her relationship, I would have been pissed.

[readster]

2 hours ago, Anela said:

Jess was staring at her picture, I think, but I really don't like him when he first shows up. I wonder why Rory didn't treat him the way she treated Tristan. Unless it was because he was Luke's nephew. Her attraction to him became obvious after a while, but he was so obviously trying to break up her relationship, I would have been pissed.

That's the thing, anyone who is that willing to try and break you up for themselves has problems. Jess comes off as someone who not only has a chip on his shoulder, but is more than willing to piss anyone off so he doesn't have to be in the situation he is in. Of course, when you got more of his back story, it came off that Liz was just tired of being a parent instead of Jess having any REAL problems. Jess caused more problems with himself in Stars Hallow since he was all: "I hate this town, people are small town idiots, I mean how many damn festivals do you need?" "I'm better than anyone, I mean look at my awesome leather jacket." I mean the efforts that Jess went to break up Dean and Rory later on was horrible and should have clued Rory in that this wasn't a good relationship to be in. Or she should have just had it where needed to end things with Dean and stop playing games when he knew she was more attracted to Jess. 

[BlancheDevoreaux]

I will never be a Rory/Jess supporter because of how hard he worked to break up Rory and Dean (and the fact that he was a major a-hole to everyone in town, save Rory, and that was only until he and Rory started a relationship - then he was an a-hole to her, too).  And she was well aware of what he was doing so she isn't any better than he is.  And then Dean tried to fight for the relationship and gets called a creepy stalker by the Rory/Jess fans.  I don't care for how Dean was written once Jess came along, but he was far from the bad guy when it came to those three.  In my opinion, his biggest failure was not dumping Rory when she continued to allow Jess to make a mockery of the Rory/Dean relationship.

[stan4]

1 hour ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

I will never be a Rory/Jess supporter because of how hard he worked to break up Rory and Dean (and the fact that he was a major a-hole to everyone in town, save Rory, and that was only until he and Rory started a relationship - then he was an a-hole to her, too).  And she was well aware of what he was doing so she isn't any better than he is.  And then Dean tried to fight for the relationship and gets called a creepy stalker by the Rory/Jess fans.  I don't care for how Dean was written once Jess came along, but he was far from the bad guy when it came to those three.  In my opinion, his biggest failure was not dumping Rory when she continued to allow Jess to make a mockery of the Rory/Dean relationship.

Amen and hallelujah.  

I totally agree. 

If I had been Dean, I would have dumped her ass the second she insisted on hanging out with that guy.  I am one of those people who does not believe in "men/women can't be friends" or who controls who is whose friend.  But this guy was actively trying to stir shit up, even when Rory asked him not to.  If she insists on continuing to hang out with this person who harbors ill will towards Dean and/or to their relationship, why would anyone be expected to just stand around and just take it?

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

I will never be a Rory/Jess supporter because of how hard he worked to break up Rory and Dean (and the fact that he was a major a-hole to everyone in town, save Rory, and that was only until he and Rory started a relationship - then he was an a-hole to her, too).  And she was well aware of what he was doing so she isn't any better than he is.  And then Dean tried to fight for the relationship and gets called a creepy stalker by the Rory/Jess fans.  I don't care for how Dean was written once Jess came along, but he was far from the bad guy when it came to those three.  In my opinion, his biggest failure was not dumping Rory when she continued to allow Jess to make a mockery of the Rory/Dean relationship.

Dean definitely had some jealousy issues, but I feel like the only things he did majorly wrong were:

1. Breaking up with Rory because she didn't say she loved him back.  Now, of course, until you are up to the engagement phase or something similar, you can break up with someone for whatever reason you want, but you can't really get mad because someone's feelings aren't moving at the exact speed of yours.  If 3-6 months more had gone by and she was "meh," then, yeah, this isn't going anywhere, break up.  But, I think his feelings were hurt, more than that he was trying to be the controlling buthole that he came out as.

2. Not breaking up with Rory when he realized she was totally into Jess.  But, he did eventually, so good for him.

3. Marrying Lindsay when he was still in love with Rory. Dude, that means you don't have strong enough feelings for Lindsay to be getting married.

4. Cheating on Lindsay with Rory.

I don't think he was stalking her because he watched her reading Moby Dick. I think he was just trying to get his courage up to go talk to her or whatever.  It was after that point that Rory kept showing up at the grocery store and he then apologized to her and said he would leave her alone when he thought she was rebuffing him at Cinnamon's Wake.

5 minutes ago, stan4 said:

Amen and hallelujah.  

I totally agree. 

If I had been Dean, I would have dumped her ass the second she insisted on hanging out with that guy.  I am one of those people who does not believe in "men/women can't be friends" or who controls who is whose friend.  But this guy was actively trying to stir shit up, even when Rory asked him not to.  If she insists on continuing to hang out with this person who harbors ill will towards Dean and/or to their relationship, why would anyone be expected to just stand around and just take it?

I agree.  Being a small town, and luke's nephew, it would have been hard for her to avoid him althogether. And I wouldn't expect her to be impolite.  But, she didn't have to do stuff with him, such as tutor, go get ice cream and lend him books to discuss.

[Anela]

2 hours ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

I will never be a Rory/Jess supporter because of how hard he worked to break up Rory and Dean (and the fact that he was a major a-hole to everyone in town, save Rory, and that was only until he and Rory started a relationship - then he was an a-hole to her, too).  And she was well aware of what he was doing so she isn't any better than he is.  And then Dean tried to fight for the relationship and gets called a creepy stalker by the Rory/Jess fans.  I don't care for how Dean was written once Jess came along, but he was far from the bad guy when it came to those three.  In my opinion, his biggest failure was not dumping Rory when she continued to allow Jess to make a mockery of the Rory/Dean relationship.

Right. When Jess bought her basket at the town event, she could have invited Dean along, too. There was nothing in the rules that said it had to be just the two of them. Dean didn't like Jess, for obvious reasons, but he might not have felt so bad if she'd told him to go with them.  Insecure, I mean. He'd still be pissed. With the basket thing, they went on to east pizza, and go to the bookstore, which wasn't in the rules she was stickler for.

But then she let Jess stay and eat, when he brought food, and Dean found her with both Jess and Paris, so he was obviously hurt. Anybody would be, if they'd had the chance to spend some time alone. I understand her need for time alone, I used to love it when I had the house to myself (and now I mostly do, all the time - the shine is off, I preferred when it was busy). 

Then Dean went on to be Rory, in his relationship with Lindsay. 

I liked the way Dean and Jess played off each other when Rory wasn't around. "talk into the clown" - "I am". 

My nitpick for now: Since Chris was super-rich, he could have taken Lorelai and Gigi to London for a couple of days, over Christmas, when Rory was there. We wouldn't have a whole episode of silliness, but it would have made more sense than postponing Christmas for everyone.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Anela

[MatildaMoody]

56 minutes ago, Anela said:

Right. When Jess bought her basket at the town event, she could have invited Dean along, too. There was nothing in the rules that said it had to be just the two of them. Dean didn't like Jess, for obvious reasons, but he might not have felt so bad if she'd told him to go with them.  Insecure, I mean. He'd still be pissed. With the basket thing, they went on to east pizza, and go to the bookstore, which wasn't in the rules she was stickler for.

But then she let Jess stay and eat, when he brought food, and Dean found her with both Jess and Paris, so he was obviously hurt. Anybody would be, if they'd had the chance to spend some time alone. I understand her need for time alone, I used to love it when I had the house to myself (and now I mostly do, all the time - the shine is off, I preferred when it was busy). 

 

Yeah, the basket event was a real nit pick for me. Rory wanting to play by the "rules" had no problem with them not actually eating what was in the basket. My biggest issue with the Rory/Jess thing wasn't that he treated everyone but her like crap, it was that he crapped all over people and events Rory claimed to care about. And by the end of the episode, it was clear that she was interested in Jess, but she didn't see any problem in stringing Dean along (which she would repeat ad nauseam until Dean finally breaks up with her). 

I do love the scene with Jess, Paris, and Rory because Paris has more chemistry with Jess in that 2 minutes than Rory has with him throughout the run of their relationship. Of course, Paris also had better chemistry with Logan than Rory ever did as well. 

Quote

And then Dean tried to fight for the relationship and gets called a creepy stalker by the Rory/Jess fans.

Yes, this was always especially odd to me since Jess was creeping around her room from the beginning and showing up where she was, just so that he either get her alone or bait Dean. That scene in the Bracebridge dinner when he jumps on her sleigh and wouldn't leave when she told him to was all kinds of creepy to me. Then, when he found her bracelet and saw her going crazy looking for it, instead of saying she left it on the bridge, he puts it in her room for her to find? That's some gaslighting bullshit right there. 

[Anela]

21 minutes ago, MatildaMoody said:

 

Yeah, the basket event was a real nit pick for me. Rory wanting to play by the "rules" had no problem with them not actually eating what was in the basket. My biggest issue with the Rory/Jess thing wasn't that he treated everyone but her like crap, it was that he crapped all over people and events Rory claimed to care about. And by the end of the episode, it was clear that she was interested in Jess, but she didn't see any problem in stringing Dean along (which she would repeat ad nauseam until Dean finally breaks up with her). 

I do love the scene with Jess, Paris, and Rory because Paris has more chemistry with Jess in that 2 minutes than Rory has with him throughout the run of their relationship. Of course, Paris also had better chemistry with Logan than Rory ever did as well. 

Yes, this was always especially odd to me since Jess was creeping around her room from the beginning and showing up where she was, just so that he either get her alone or bait Dean. That scene in the Bracebridge dinner when he jumps on her sleigh and wouldn't leave when she told him to was all kinds of creepy to me. Then, when he found her bracelet and saw her going crazy looking for it, instead of saying she left it on the bridge, he puts it in her room for her to find? That's some gaslighting bullshit right there. 

I like that scene, too, because they were all enjoying themselves, and I liked Jess and Paris playing off each other. 

My favourite scene with Paris and Logan was one I only noticed recently: when he's back at the paper, and leaning back on his chair legs, trying to look at Rory. She says something like, "spin a plate on your nose, or stop doing that!" and he stops immediately. LOL. She takes no BS, and I love her for it. 

[MatildaMoody]

Just found a major nitpick! In "It Should Have Been Lorelai": Lorelai tells Chris that she and Sherry are going to have to know each other because she is in Rory's life. Chris counters that Lorelai didn't factor him in when she was engaged with Max and that he didn't even know Lorelai was engaged until she called him from her bachelorette party. 

The fact that Chris didn't even know Lorelai was engaged shows just how much he WASN'T a part of Rory's life. If he had been in touch with her he would have known, because Rory would have mentioned it. So, when Lorelai says, that the situations were different, she was right. Lorelai is an everyday consistent part of Rory's life. Chris is not or was not for a very long time. If someone is in teenaged Rory's life, chances were they were definitely going to spend time with Lorelai and the same would be true of whoever was in Lorelai's life. With Chris, there was never any telling if he was going to show up let alone be enough of a presence to be factored into a relationship with a third person. 

[Anela]

5 minutes ago, MatildaMoody said:

Just found a major nitpick! In "It Should Have Been Lorelai": Lorelai tells Chris that she and Sherry are going to have to know each other because she is in Rory's life. Chris counters that Lorelai didn't factor him in when she was engaged with Max and that he didn't even know Lorelai was engaged until she called him from her bachelorette party. 

The fact that Chris didn't even know Lorelai was engaged shows just how much he WASN'T a part of Rory's life. If he had been in touch with her he would have known, because Rory would have mentioned it. So, when Lorelai says, that the situations were different, she was right. Lorelai is an everyday consistent part of Rory's life. Chris is not or was not for a very long time. If someone is in teenaged Rory's life, chances were they were definitely going to spend time with Lorelai and the same would be true of whoever was in Lorelai's life. With Chris, there was never any telling if he was going to show up let alone be enough of a presence to be factored into a relationship with a third person. 

he was also supposed to have phone calls with Rory every week, but she never mentioned it? they supposedly had a set time for phone calls, but she never once mentioned that her mum was engaged. 

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, MatildaMoody said:

it was clear that she was interested in Jess, but she didn't see any problem in stringing Dean along (which she would repeat ad nauseam until Dean finally breaks up with her). 

The heart wants what the heart wants, but break up with Dean for crying out loud.  She treated him like crap.

[andromeda331]

16 hours ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

I will never be a Rory/Jess supporter because of how hard he worked to break up Rory and Dean (and the fact that he was a major a-hole to everyone in town, save Rory, and that was only until he and Rory started a relationship - then he was an a-hole to her, too).  And she was well aware of what he was doing so she isn't any better than he is.  And then Dean tried to fight for the relationship and gets called a creepy stalker by the Rory/Jess fans.  I don't care for how Dean was written once Jess came along, but he was far from the bad guy when it came to those three.  In my opinion, his biggest failure was not dumping Rory when she continued to allow Jess to make a mockery of the Rory/Dean relationship.

Yes, thank you! That's exactly why I'd never be a Rory/Jess support. He worked really hard to break them up so he could get Rory and she knew what he was doing and didn't stop it. What's so great about someone who does that? Who doesn't stop someone clearly trying to break you and your boyfriend up? That makes them both crappy people. Jess treated everyone like crap and treated Rory like crap when they were dating. I really hate that Dean didn't dump Rory sooner or that Rory realized she liked Jess and broke up with Dean. 

[bracebridge]

I've always been annoyed that when Luke and Lorelai start dating, she has to "make" him go to town meetings and even Sookie is surprised to see him there as though that was a rare occurrence considering we are shown that Luke attends willingly (and punctually) to almost every town meeting that we see through Seasons 1 to 4.

[scarynikki12]

That’s the kind of thing that makes me wonder if there was a change in writing staff between 4 and 5. I have no problem believing that the Palladinos wouldn’t care about continuity but the first few seasons were pretty good about it so I can see the writing staff be the reason. If there wasn’t a change, or not a significant one, then everyone just dropped the ball. I mean, there  were conversations and plot resolutions and advancements involving Luke that happened around the town meetings. He wasn’t acting as an extra to fill a seat. They had to know we remembered it yet he suddenly he never goes and had to be dragged. 

[stan4]

We have found PUH-LENTY continuity problems in S1-4.

6 hours ago, bracebridge said:

I've always been annoyed that when Luke and Lorelai start dating, she has to "make" him go to town meetings and even Sookie is surprised to see him there as though that was a rare occurrence considering we are shown that Luke attends willingly (and punctually) to almost every town meeting that we see through Seasons 1 to 4.

I was just totally thinking about this the other day.

[stan4]

Lorelai borrows Luke's truck.  Much conversation about lack of proficiency driving a stick.

The he draws a diagram and says "D" is drive.

Uh...not on any stick shift I've ever owned or operated.  There's no D.  Just the gear #s, N, and R.

[MatildaMoody]

On 7/25/2018 at 7:43 PM, Anela said:

My favourite scene with Paris and Logan was one I only noticed recently: when he's back at the paper, and leaning back on his chair legs, trying to look at Rory. She says something like, "spin a plate on your nose, or stop doing that!" and he stops immediately. LOL. She takes no BS, and I love her for it.

I love that scene! 

 

Quote

Lorelai borrows Luke's truck.  Much conversation about lack of proficiency driving a stick.

The he draws a diagram and says "D" is drive.

Uh...not on any stick shift I've ever owned or operated.  There's no D.  Just the gear #s, N, and R.

Yes! I totally forgot about that one. 

[Guest]

On 7/25/2018 at 8:25 PM, Katy M said:

The heart wants what the heart wants, but break up with Dean for crying out loud.  She treated him like crap.

And then he’s the bad guy for dumping her in front of the whole town. It was fine when she was embarrassing him in front of he whole town though.

[marineg]

Yes, Jess was trying to break them up. And yes, Rory kind of let him. But Dean was emotionally abusive. He expected her to be his and only his and have no life outside of him. Not once but twice. Yes, she wasn't honest with him or herself. But he was way over the line many times. And breaking up with her, again, not once but twice, in such a public setting, in front of all her friends, knowing she would have nowhere to go, was disrespectful and not something you claim to love.

[Katy M]

59 minutes ago, marineg said:

Yes, Jess was trying to break them up. And yes, Rory kind of let him. But Dean was emotionally abusive. He expected her to be his and only his and have no life outside of him. Not once but twice. Yes, she wasn't honest with him or herself. But he was way over the line many times. And breaking up with her, again, not once but twice, in such a public setting, in front of all her friends, knowing she would have nowhere to go, was disrespectful and not something you claim to love.

Dean was insecure and jealous.  That's a far cry from emotionally abusive.  And, she did have somewhere to go both times he broke up with her.  You're acting like he dumped her at a lake in the middle of nowhere.  The first time she was with her mother (who had left the room for a couple ofm inutes) and the second time she was at her grandparents' house.  Both times was also right after she had disrespected him, by obviously being more interested in other men.  It's not that big of a deal.  They broke up because she didn't love him.  That's not abusive behavior on his part.

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

Dean was insecure and jealous.  That's a far cry from emotionally abusive.

I often saw him as emotionally abusive, as well.  I don't think it was intentional but I did definitely see it.  There were times Rory legitimately seemed afraid of what Dean's reaction would be, and with good reason.  I often felt just sad for her when she was with Dean.

He treated Lindsey the same way, btw.  One could argue that Rory "deserved" it once Jess came on the scene, but Lindsey bent over backwards trying to make Dean happy.  Other than some unrealistic expectations of how quickly they'd be able to have a nice house and a nice car (which is a mistake most young couples make, LOL.  I know hubby and I sure did) she never did anything but try to be a perfect girlfriend and perfect wife.

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

Dean was insecure and jealous.  That's a far cry from emotionally abusive.

And he was a teenager.  High school is a time of high drama and every slight is magnified; wanting to spend every waking minute together is modus operandi for young lovers.  To declare undying love to be met with silence is a big deal at that age.  Rory pining for another in front of Dean was just nasty and hurtful and never considered his feelings.  No teenager that I know, boy or girl, would just shrug it off and walk away.

Then she has the nerve to climb the tree and ask to be friends again.  Clueless.

Pining for your "one and only" added to the insecurities in those hormone-fueled years is hardly abusive.  It's normal.

[Katy M]

37 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

He treated Lindsey the same way, btw.  One could argue that Rory "deserved" it once Jess came on the scene, but Lindsey bent over backwards trying to make Dean happy.  Other than some unrealistic expectations of how quickly they'd be able to have a nice house and a nice car (which is a mistake most young couples make, LOL.  I know hubby and I sure did) she never did anything but try to be a perfect girlfriend and perfect wife.

Lindsay is a completely different story.  I would never even try to justify any of Dean's actions when it came to her.  I think she should have known better than to marry him, but we never really saw her POV, or really ever saw them together alone before they got married, so I can't say what was going through her head. But, regardless, she didn't deserve what she got from him.

[marineg]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

And, she did have somewhere to go both times he broke up with her.  You're acting like he dumped her at a lake in the middle of nowhere.  The first time she was with her mother (who had left the room for a couple ofm inutes) and the second time she was at her grandparents' house.  Both times was also right after she had disrespected him, by obviously being more interested in other men.  It's not that big of a deal.  They broke up because she didn't love him.  That's not abusive behavior on his part.

I meant somewhere private she could go and cry. The first time her mother consoled her in the middle of the gymnasium, and the second time she had to go back to the party with all of her Yale "friends" and their parents... Not ideal.

Dean was emotionally abusive. Found this online: 

Quote

Emotional abuse is an attempt to control, in just the same way that physical abuse is an attempt to control another person. The perpetrator of emotional abuse uses emotion as his weapon of choice. 
Commonly, the perpetrator of emotional abuse does not know that he is being abusive. Rather, he may be aware that they feels insecure about whether or not his partner loves him, so he feels compelled to accuse her of cheating, blame her for his unhappiness, or constantly check her voice and text messages, etc. The accusations, the blame, and the constant checking up are forms of emotional abuse.
He may think that he knows what’s best for her or what looks correct to the outside world, so he is constantly trying to control her every move, criticizing her harshly when she doesn’t do it his way or threatening her when she seems to go outside the lines. He may verbally attack her when she argues with him, because her arguing is convincing evidence to him that he is not in control of her. He may criticize her talking, her walking, her dressing, her interactions with others, her style of living and coping in order to gain and keep control over her. 

Dean broke up with Rory when she couldn't say she loved him after 3 months of dating and knowing the complicated relationship she had with men of all forms in her life. He believed he was due her love because he built her a car and paid for 2 types of pasta at dinner. He called her 30 or so times a day when he knew she was otherwise occupied. She complained and argued and made her feel bad about herself whenever she wanted to spend time alone/at school/for school/with friends rather than with him. He made her feel bad we she had to spend a day building a house to put on her college application, even after she offered to spend the whole next day together. Whenever she asked for something from him, like going to a party, to a school dance, or to cotillion, he had her trade favours and complained the entire time. After Jess moved to SH, he became even worse, didn't respect her boundaries, complained a whole bunch, pressured her, etc. He was the one who wanted to make the decisions in his relationships (both Rory & Lindsay) and felt his world crumble the second his girlfriend would disagree with him. Every time Rory expresses an contrary opinion , he makes her feel so awful about it that she does these grand gestures (ie 50s night, or spending the whole day with him after an disagreement). He goes to Lorelai every single time Rory "misbehaves" and has her make Rory into who he wants her to be. And Lorelai should know better. But she was manipulated by Dean just as much. Like any emotionally abusive BF, he behaved perfectly around her people, her mother, her friends so no one would see the signs. Everyone around her kept telling her Dean is perfect, the perfect man, the perfect boyfriend, etc. That's not healthy either. It makes her, a 16yo girl feel inadequate, and like she should overcompensate to be at his level of perfection, and that every time he is upset about something, it must be her fault.

This relationship is not healthy.

And as bad as Jess was, he wasn't anywhere near Dean's level. He may have been rude, skipped school most of the time, and unaccepting of figures of authorities at times, but he didn't treat Rory badly. The only times he did was when he didn't call her when he was working to get her tickets to a concert. Girl could call him too. Relationships go both ways. The second time was when he left. And ASP wrote it that way so she could have her failed backdoor pilot to "Jess' show."

Edited July 28, 2018 by marineg

[tarotx]

I don't think Rory was supposed to be scared OF Dean - just guilt on Rory's end.  And her having that is one of the reasons she liked being with Jess in the first place. He was emotionally less demanding. But the liking Jess just made the guilt worse. I personally don't think there was anything necessarily wrong with Dean wanting to be in a relationship that both he and the girl were on the same page. I don't think him wanting to spend the limited free time that he had with his girlfriend was different than most people in a serious relationship. The issue is that Rory is far from being on the same page as him. She liked hanging out and discussing books and plans and the people of Stars Hollow. And getting kissed here and there.   

Imo Rory never had deep feelings for Dean in the first place. She liked that he liked her and that her mom grew to like him but both got too much at times. I also think that when Rory needed time to herself, she didn't really need time to herself. This wasn't an introvert needing calm thing even if Rory is an introvert. This was a girlfriend who needed time away from her needy boyfriend. She just wasn't honest with herself or Dean. 

I don't like calling it emotional abuse because that places Dean's behavior in this strong negative that I don't think fits. This wasn't about control. Dean wanted a serious relationship. It seems to me that is what he thought having a girlfriend was compared to just dating. Rory wasn't at all ready for the emotional needs or intimacy that a serious relationship demands. I think in some ways Rory was in a youthful relationship with Dean while Dean was ready and needed more. They both totally should have broken up for good months and months before the Dance.  

With Lindsay, I think Dean found a girl who wanted a serious relationship so he latched onto that. He just never had real feelings for her. So he was now in the opposite of what he had with Rory. And really that is what happened with Jess and Rory in a way as well. They both got what they said they wanted. But you want more with the person you want more with. And that was Rory for Dean and Jess for Rory. 

[marineg]

I agree with you about Rory but not Dean. They were 16. There is no reason at 16 for such high demands. Yes there is drama, but this was over the top. It was about control. Maybe you don't want to call it emotional abuse, but he wanted to control her. He didn't respect her enough to let her have friends outside of him and to let her have alone time if she wanted. Worse than letting her have alone time or hang out with friends if she wanted is that he didn't respect her decision and fought her about it. It's okay to want to spend time with your girlfriend. But if someone says no and you respect and love them, it's no. You don't go straight to emotional blackmail, making the other feel guilty and do grand gestures to prove their love. You don't show up at someone's house after she repeatedly told you not to come. You don't pout for days after your girlfriend tells you she doesn't believe in the 1950s housewife ideal. You don't show up uninvited at school play rehearsals. You don't make her feel awful for losing a gift. You don't make her feel bad about her passions and quirks. 

Yes, Dean should have broken up with Rory one he saw she had feelings for Jess. But Rory should never have broken up with Rory after his whole "if you don't say I love you, we're through" thing.

[HeySandyStrange]

To me it's kind of hard to read things like "abusive" into a character like Dean, who spent the majority of his run on the show as a plot point who was changed to fit whatever the storyline demanded. And by that token, just about every male character on the show had moments that could be construed as abusive to their partners, to include Jess and probably even my beloved Luke. I saw Dean as a decent dude, but not unlike Jess, a teenage boy who had his asshole moments. Yet for whatever reason, Jess often gets a pass, whereas Dean mostly doesn't. My guess is because we have more insight into Jess's background with his crappy mom while we know very little about Dean. 

[shron17]

3 hours ago, marineg said:

He didn't respect her enough to let her have friends outside of him and to let her have alone time if she wanted. Worse than letting her have alone time or hang out with friends if she wanted is that he didn't respect her decision and fought her about it. It's okay to want to spend time with your girlfriend. But if someone says no and you respect and love them, it's no. You don't go straight to emotional blackmail, making the other feel guilty and do grand gestures to prove their love. You don't show up at someone's house after she repeatedly told you not to come. You don't pout for days after your girlfriend tells you she doesn't believe in the 1950s housewife ideal. You don't show up uninvited at school play rehearsals. You don't make her feel awful for losing a gift. You don't make her feel bad about her passions and quirks. 

I don't ever remember Dean not allowing Rory to have friends.  When?  If you mean Jess, well, most people wouldn't be okay with that.  Dean did respect Rory's wish to spend the night alone doing her laundry--he was just stopping by with ice cream for a quick break.  Also, since her mom was gone overnight I do think Rory's motivation was just having the house to herself.  Dean did make a sarcastic remark about Rory not liking the housewife thing the next day but characterizing that as pouting for days seems extreme.  He came to the rehearsal because Tristan went to Doose's the day before specifically to taunt him about it, and then Dean left when Rory asked him to.  And remember, Rory had kissed Tristan at the party and was afraid he would tell Dean, so there was probably a suspicious vibe there anyway.  If by the gift you mean the bracelet he gave her, Dean could hardly make her feel awful about it when he didn't know it was missing.  I do agree Dean was annoying and insecure and shouldn't have been offended just because Rory didn't say she loved him too, but not sure I would call it emotional abuse.  Rory didn't handle a lot of it particularly well either, probably because it was her first relationship.

[readster]

6 hours ago, Katy M said:

Lindsay is a completely different story.  I would never even try to justify any of Dean's actions when it came to her.  I think she should have known better than to marry him, but we never really saw her POV, or really ever saw them together alone before they got married, so I can't say what was going through her head. But, regardless, she didn't deserve what she got from him.

Lindsay was not a character, she was a plot point. I mean after she saw Dean get into a fight with Jess at that party. What did she say to Dean? "You are not over her." Dean: "Yes, I am, I just don't like Jess or anyone getting hurt." Lindsay: "Prove it!" Dean: "Ummm... marry me." Lindsay: "AWESOME!" Seriously, it made no sense and how everyone was going: "Wow, great for them." They were together at that point what? 2 months and seniors in high school. I had 2 friends who got engaged at 19 and married at 21, but here is the thing. They had been together at that point almost 4 years. I know it was AS-P and her husband's plan to write off Jared for the McGayver relaunch that never happened, but what a very stupid way to write them off. I mean really, couldn't have just had them going off to college. Good reason why they be gone or just show up again later if the show didn't work out. Plus, how about how bad Jared's final appearance was as Dean before Super Natural became a hit. I mean he was telling Luke that Lorelai will never accept his life style because they are no bodies. Umm... what? 

[Kohola3]

19 minutes ago, shron17 said:

I don't ever remember Dean not allowing Rory to have friends.  When?  If you mean Jess, well, most people wouldn't be okay with that.  Dean did respect Rory's wish to spend the night alone doing her laundry--he was just stopping by with ice cream for a quick break.  Also, since her mom was gone overnight I do think Rory's motivation was just having the house to herself.  Dean did make a sarcastic remark about Rory not liking the housewife thing the next day but characterizing that as pouting for days seems extreme.  He came to the rehearsal because Tristan went to Doose's the day before specifically to taunt him about it, and then Dean left when Rory asked him to.  And remember, Rory had kissed Tristan at the party and was afraid he would tell Dean, so there was probably a suspicious vibe there anyway.  If by the gift you mean the bracelet he gave her, Dean could hardly make her feel awful about it when he didn't know it was missing.  I do agree Dean was annoying and insecure and shouldn't have been offended just because Rory didn't say she loved him too, but not sure I would call it emotional abuse.  Rory didn't handle a lot of it particularly well either, probably because it was her first relationship.

Well said.   

Dean did things together with Rory and Lane and Rory didn't appear to have a single other friend in town so when did he "not allow" her to have friends?  On what episode that that happen?  And he apologized for his comments about Donna Reed and assured he would accept whatever Rory wanted to do.  Nothing controlling there.  Rather than mope alone he decided to go to the rehearsal of the play, certainly something an proud and adoring boyfriend is wont to do.  She never told him not to come so it's not like he was forcing himself on her.

He never knew the bracelet was missing. In what episode did he make her feel bad?

And again, this was a 16 year old guy, not Ted Bundy.  Emotionally abusive is a rather excessive label for a kid.

[MatildaMoody]

Quote

I agree with you about Rory but not Dean. They were 16. There is no reason at 16 for such high demands. Yes there is drama, but this was over the top. It was about control. Maybe you don't want to call it emotional abuse, but he wanted to control her. He didn't respect her enough to let her have friends outside of him and to let her have alone time if she wanted. Worse than letting her have alone time or hang out with friends if she wanted is that he didn't respect her decision and fought her about it. It's okay to want to spend time with your girlfriend. But if someone says no and you respect and love them, it's no. You don't go straight to emotional blackmail, making the other feel guilty and do grand gestures to prove their love. You don't show up at someone's house after she repeatedly told you not to come. You don't pout for days after your girlfriend tells you she doesn't believe in the 1950s housewife ideal. You don't show up uninvited at school play rehearsals. You don't make her feel awful for losing a gift. You don't make her feel bad about her passions and quirks.

None of these things actually happened. Dean never had an issue with Rory hanging out with her friends. Lane and Dean actually became friends in their own way. I never saw him try to emotionally blackmail her. He certainly didn't pout for days over the Donna Reed thing. He simply explained that his mom was a stay at home mom and he didn't think there was anything wrong with that. He NEVER made her feel guilty for losing the bracelet - he didn't even know it was missing. 

He NEVER tried to make her feel bad for her passions or quirks, in fact those were the things that he seemed to appreciate about her. 

[Kohola3]

24 minutes ago, MatildaMoody said:

Dean never had an issue with Rory hanging out with her friends. Lane and Dean actually became friends in their own way. I never saw him try to emotionally blackmail her. He certainly didn't pout for days over the Donna Reed thing. He simply explained that his mom was a stay at home mom and he didn't think there was anything wrong with that. He NEVER made her feel guilty for losing the bracelet - he didn't even know it was missing. 

Yes, please, could someone point out the exact episodes in which these took place?  Or is this a bit of confirmation bias?

[readster]

26 minutes ago, MatildaMoody said:

None of these things actually happened. Dean never had an issue with Rory hanging out with her friends. Lane and Dean actually became friends in their own way. I never saw him try to emotionally blackmail her. He certainly didn't pout for days over the Donna Reed thing. He simply explained that his mom was a stay at home mom and he didn't think there was anything wrong with that. He NEVER made her feel guilty for losing the bracelet - he didn't even know it was missing. 

He NEVER tried to make her feel bad for her passions or quirks, in fact those were the things that he seemed to appreciate about her. 

The problem is with it is that Dean doesn't at any point go: "I know that isn't common these days, but it would be nice just to have that family time instead of everyone going out and doing their own thing." That's all he had to say, they started focusing on that aspect that Dean liked that life style since his mother did the same and then what was the disaster that was Lindsay proved that didn't work. Even in the revival with Dean's appearance, his wife and him both worked and made time with the kids. Lorelai and Rory make fun of the show because they think it's lame, when really it was a product of the times. Also, how Donna Reed was uncredited herself because "woman can't be seen as that". Yet it never comes up or anything. The episode would have worked for Dean if he just went: "I like the idea, and my mom did it for years, but yeah, I mean Donna Reed was going to go back to work when the kids were out of the house. Something that actually was about to happen when the series finished airing. 

[chessiegal]

I thought Dean's mother had a job, medical transcription or something? Of course, his Dad at one point sold stereo equipment or something and later worked for the forest service.

[Kohola3]

9 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

I thought Dean's mother had a job, medical transcription or something? Of course, his Dad at one point sold stereo equipment or something and later worked for the forest service.

Ah, yes, the ASP alternate universe world of continuity.  Fans are too dumb to remember so just throw toilet paper at the ceiling and see what sticks.

[andromeda331]

I just don't see Dean as a bad guy until season four getting drunk at his bachelor party and saying what did about Rory. If you are still that hurt/confused and in love with your old girlfriend you don't marry someone else. Yes, its horrible to call of a wedding the day of but so is marrying someone when your in love with someone else. Ignoring his wife's telling him to stay away from Rory and of course the affair are all horrible They don't make Rory any better.

I don't see Dean as emotionally abusive or angry, to me he's a sixteen year old kid who only had one relationship before which according to Lane he didn't think he was in love with her. I do think he was in love with Rory but didn't realize they weren't going at the same speed. I do agree he acted badly when Rory was unable say I love you. Rory did learn from it when she told Logan and told him he didn't have to say it back. I'd hope Dean learned from it. But I can't imagine any sixteen year old boy or girl wouldn't be hurt or react like that when their boyfriend or girlfriend doesn't say 'I Love You' back. Although usually in TV world its always a sign that the relationship is over or doomed or their in love with someone else. I do really respect that in this case that wasn't it. Rory just wasn't going at the same speed. She mentioned her dad telling her mom he loved her and Dean really seemed confused like she thought that meant she'd get pregnant or something. I am curious if they ever talked about Rory's dad. Did Rory talk to him about Christopher? How she really felt about him? Being the product of a teen couple that lead to the big problem between her mom and her grandparents? Or anything? I'm curious if they did or never did. She really seemed to have issues with love and relationships that never really gets brought up. Its possible her talk with her mom about love helped but I kind of thing she had more issues. Rory does end up realizing she did love Dean and gave that embarrassing speech at the Town Meeting. 

Dean got upset when Jess was messing with their relationship and when he realize Rory liked Jess.  The calling her a lot in season two was insecure and a teenage boy who realized his girlfriend liked another boy. Who handles that well? Who wouldn't get upset that someone keeps trying to break him and his girlfriend up. Who wouldn't get upset when their girlfriend is falling for someone else? I do wish Dean had broken up with Rory at that point. Rory treated Dean like crap until he finally had enough. Yes, I was happy when he finally broke up with her. I really hate that she asks why. Why Rory? You've been treating him like crap for over a year now. You kissed Jess while you were still dating Dean, you decided only to stay with him because Jess had a girlfriend. I know she claimed it was a pro/con list which doesn't sound any better but I think if Jess wasn't dating someone else she would have broken up with him. Then continued to be jealous that Jess had a girlfriend. 

I don't think Dean and Rory were destined to end up together. I think he was her first boyfriend and her love. I think Rory was Dean's first love. Before Jess arrived I figured they'd probably break up at some point in season two.  They were different in a lot of ways that could have broken them up or they didn't have time for each other anymore. Going to different schools, being involved in different activities. 

Edited July 29, 2018 by andromeda331

[stan4]

At the rare manuscript dinner, Floyd Stiles comes to the Gilmore table, where Jason and Lorelai are sitting together, ostensibly a couple (sitting close, holding hands, as per Emily's instructions). 

[Jason also stated in the past that you always bring a date to these functions, and there was no other woman there with him.]

 

So how come it's such a revelation in TTTB?  Meaning how Floyd drops it like a bomb that he knew they were dating bc of a private eye and he was sorry he had spoiled the secret.  Why would he have thought it was a secret?   As far as he knew, the Gilmores already knew about it.

Edited July 29, 2018 by stan4

[Frelling Tralk]

18 hours ago, marineg said:

It's okay to want to spend time with your girlfriend. But if someone says no and you respect and love them, it's no. You don't go straight to emotional blackmail, making the other feel guilty and do grand gestures to prove their love. 

I agree, Dean and Rory not being on the same page when it came to how serious their relationship should be can happen and is nobodies fault, but to me it was emotionally abusive the way that Dean would badger Rory and make her feel like she was the one in the wrong. He was always imposing himself on Rory’s life, showing up at the play rehearsals for a school that he didn’t even go too, and then getting all possessive when Rory and Tristan had to kiss as part of the play. 

And it would have been cute that he wanted to spend all his time with Rory, except for how he made Rory feel bad for not wanting to revolve her life around his. I.e when she wanted to spend a day on community work for her college application, or when she wanted to spend the night by herself doing laundry, he could not stand the idea of Rory not being just as obsessed with him as he was with her, and certainly calling someone’s home up to 30 times is beyond clingy and desperate. He just didn’t seem capable of healthy and respectful boundaries when it came to Rory 

And regarding the comments on Dean never actually finding out about Rory losing his bracelet, that’s true, but I think her response there still says something about how he treated her for her to be freaking out that much about a bracelet slipping off her wrist. Dean absolutely would have made Rory feel bad and read a lot into her losing the bracelet, just look at how he reacted to her not being ready to say ‘I love you’ after three months of dating, he constantly made her feel like there was something wrong with her whenever she wasn’t as slavishly devoted to him as he was to her

Edited July 29, 2018 by Frelling Tralk

[Kohola3]

The definition of abusive is "engaging in or characterized by habitual violence and cruelty".  Come on.  He was a 16 year old love struck teen.

[marineg]

Thank you @Frelling Tralk. And @Kohola3, you're describing physical abuse. I posted something little ways up with a detailed description of emotional abuse.

 

Dean is the one who found out Rory's bracelet was missing. Rory made up an excuse, saying she got a rash and took it off, but he knew she wasn't wearing it and reacted like it was a betrayal. (from the following, the tone Dean used was the most shocking to me... especially when he says "well, good" like she owes it to him to wear it.)

DEAN: Hey, where. . . where’s your bracelet? 
RORY: What? 
DEAN: You’re not wearing your bracelet. 
RORY: Oh. 
DEAN: Where is it? 
RORY: I took it off. 
DEAN: Why? 
RORY: Well, because I got this weird rash on my wrist. 
DEAN: From the bracelet? 
RORY: Oh no, just a fluke thing. Actually, I think my Spanish midterm gave it to me. 
DEAN: Oh. 
RORY: But it’s getting better – it’s almost gone. 
DEAN: Well, good. 
RORY: And as soon as it’s completely gone, that bracelet goes right back on.

Rory later talks to her mother and says she knows Dean will be mad. She lies to him instead of just telling him it must have fallen off. In what healthy relationship are you actually scared to tell your partner, the person you love, that you lost a bracelet he got you?

Now, when I talked about Dean not allowing Rory to have friends, I meant outside of Lane, obviously. Jess first came into town, he immediately hated him for being friends with Rory, even before he started trying to break them up. He hated Tristan even though he didn't know anything about the kiss. yes he knew that Tristan was interested in Rory, but he should have trusted her. He was pissed whenever she ventured to far from his pre-approved list of friends.

Concerning the play rehearsal, Dean did insist on being there. Rory didn't invite him. She didn't say no you can't come, but she gave him plenty of reasons why he shouldn't. Anyone would have understood that meant "I don't want to be mean but don't come." Dean knew it, but came anyway because he wanted to and didn't care what Rory wanted. It wasn't his place to be there. He wasn't going to Chilton, didn't know anyone, and just wanted to be there to keep an eye on Rory. He didn't trust Tristan not to make a move, yes, but he didn't trust Rory either.

[Kohola3]

1 minute ago, marineg said:

In what healthy relationship are you actually scared to tell your partner, the person you love, that you lost a bracelet he got you?

Afraid of hurting his feelings?   Is that unhealthy or browbeaten? I think not.  I'd feel terrible if someone took the time to make a gift for me and I lost it. I still feel that way when someone puts time and effort into a home made gift - I consider it quite special and treat it accordingly. 

Disliking a potential rival is hardly unusual especially at that age.  Again, he's a 16 year old where every emotion is life altering.

 

3 minutes ago, marineg said:

...just wanted to be there to keep an eye on Rory.

I believe "keeping an eye on Rory" is confirmation bias.  I see it as a boyfriend who is proud of his girlfriend and wants to see her in her element.

[MatildaMoody]

35 minutes ago, marineg said:

Rory later talks to her mother and says she knows Dean will be mad. She lies to him instead of just telling him it must have fallen off. In what healthy relationship are you actually scared to tell your partner, the person you love, that you lost a bracelet he got you?

Now, when I talked about Dean not allowing Rory to have friends, I meant outside of Lane, obviously. Jess first came into town, he immediately hated him for being friends with Rory, even before he started trying to break them up. He hated Tristan even though he didn't know anything about the kiss. yes he knew that Tristan was interested in Rory, but he should have trusted her. He was pissed whenever she ventured to far from his pre-approved list of friends.

Nope, gotta disagree. I just watched the bracelet scene yesterday. There was nothing in Dean's tone that said she owed him anything. The "well good" sounded like he was relieved that the bracelet didn't cause the rash, that she knew exactly where it was, and that she would be wearing it again soon. As for hating Jess immediately, also not true. Dean was polite to Jess when he first got there. He was friendly, if distracted, but it was obvious that the didn't even see Jess as a rival upon their first meetings with each other. He even tried to help him out when he got into a fight. It was when Dean tried to help Jess out during the fight and Jess tried to hit Dean that Dean saw what an asshole Jess was and started to hate him. 

As for the friends thing? First of all Tristan wasn't Rory's friend, as Rory didn't even like him until she felt sorry for him. Secondly, Tristan baited Dean in much the same way that Jess did, acting as though he was better than Dean. So, Dean had every right to dislike him for that alone. The fact that it was also obvious that Tristan had a thing for Rory, obviously didn't help matters. But, to say that Dean was dictating who Rory could and couldn't be friends with and would try to punish or guilt her when she strayed from that, is completely unfounded in the any of the episodes of the show.