S01.E03: Power Broker

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, paigow said:

How did Bucky get a book delivered to Zemo without it getting inspected? 

Did he give Zemo the book or did he slip the card into a book that was already in Zemo's cell?

[Chicago Redshirt]

31 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Did he give Zemo the book or did he slip the card into a book that was already in Zemo's cell?

As far as we saw, Zemo stayed in his cell and Bucky never entered.

So one of  several scenarios could have taken place:

1. Zemo had himself procured the key card and hid it in the book. This doesn't really make sense because Bucky would not have known about it, and it's implied he knew about it by asking about it.

2. Bucky was responsible for Zemo getting the key card and gave it to Zemo during the visit. Possible, but it seems like a narrative cheat since it does not seem like from what we saw of the visit that he had an opportunity to slip the key card in the book or to slip the book to Zemo.

3. Bucky was responsible for Zemo getting the key card and set up getting the key card/book well in advance of his visit. I think this makes the most sense. Part of the breakout plan suggests that he did some intel in advance. Choosing which inmates to try to spur into the fight, for example, was probably not just done by chance. The research that fight means at least four guards would respond was something he figured out. I think we just have to accept that he'd worked human angles to a) get the key card duplicated b) arranged through other human failings to get the book and keycard to Zemo.

[cambridgeguy]

4 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Walker acting like the typical 'meathead US soldier interrogating suspects' was particularly ill-fitting, while wearing a Cap uniform. I appreciated that little glimpse of a non-American showing contempt for him while obliquely showing he did respect Steve.

It's really a testament to the writers and actor.  Walker is a douche who appears to have rage issues but is also someone who hasn't killed anyone (yet), isn't planning on world domination, doesn't appear to be abusive to his girlfriend, seems to be following orders, and helped saved our heroes.  Yet he's still treated by the audience as someone who has already jumped off the deep end, needs to get his ass kicked, and ranks right up there with the most despicable villains.

[swanpride]

Well, he is basically what we feared a movie version of Cap would be prior to 2011. Basically everything which annoys us about the US rolled into one person. The reaction is quite natural.

Plus, it is always more annoying to have someone doing terrible things while thinking of himself as a hero than an outright villain.

[tv echo]

I'll join the minority and say that, while I liked Sharon in this episode, I never really cared for her character in the MCU.

Sharon's apparent bitterness at her current ex-pat life may be understandable, but I don't think that her hostility toward Sam and Bucky was warranted.

In Civil War, Sharon - as well as Sam and Natalie - chose to help Steve because they believed it was the right thing to do, even if it meant breaking the law. Bucky was the victim of brainwashing and being framed by Zemo. Steve warned Sharon that "they're going to come looking for you," and she replied, "I know." He also thanked her. They did kiss, but was that one kiss an implied promise of some kind? I don't know. But Sam and Bucky didn't kiss Sharon.  Steve, Sam and Bucky were going into a situation where they might die. Sharon did not join them. I don't know if she wasn't asked or if she chose not to go with them.

Post-Civil War, Steve, Sam and Natalie were all on the run together until Infinity War. Steve found Sam locked up in that floating prison. We don't know if Steve searched for Natalie. More likely (imo), Natalie found or tracked down Steve and Sam. At that point, Sharon was a rogue CIA agent who had gone into hiding underground. Maybe Steve looked for her but didn't find her. Maybe Steve thought that Sharon was better off not being with them. I think that it's harder to find one rogue agent than three rogue agents who travel together.  Bucky was in Wakanda being deprogrammed.

Then the Snap happened and Sharon was one of the ones Snapped for five years.* The fact that Sharon was listed among the Snapped in the Avengers database means that an effort was made to locate her after the Snap happened. She wasn't forgotten. After the final battle with Thanos and everyone was returned, Steve had to return all six Infinity Stones to their original timelines. He had that one opportunity to get his own life in an alternate timeline and reunite with Peggy, the love of his life. He took it. 

(* I do find it unbelievable that Sharon managed to set herself up in such a cushy house with tons of artwork and with such a thriving business in Madripoor during the relatively short time period between Endgame and the start of this series.)

Steve had sacrificed himself repeatedly for the past 10 years and 70 years before that. So I don't begrudge him if he finally wanted to find some happiness for himself. That was after he had been prepared to fight the entire Thanos army all by himself and then did fight (once again) with the other Avengers to defeat Thanos.  He's not obligated to sacrifice himself for the world for the entirety of his existence. Does he owe the world his entire life? Should he have stayed in a time where he wasn't happy, just for the sake of Bucky and Sam - adults who have to find their own destiny - or for the sake of Sharon - whom he didn't love in the way that's needed for a committed relationship? Bucky and Sam understood Steve's decision and didn't resent him for it. In fact, I think they approved of Steve being a little selfish for once.

Steve was also a human being with flaws. He wasn't perfect and never pretended to be.  As Zemo said in this episode, the danger with super soldiers is that we put them on pedestals: "They become symbols. Icons. And then we start to forget about their flaws. From there, cities fly, innocent people die. Movements are formed, wars are fought.” However, I would also say that icons can be inspirational and aspirational. And, as Bucky noted in this episode, that Captain America shield, as wielded by Steve, saved a lot of lives.

Even if Sharon felt betrayed by Steve in some way, she still took it out on Sam and Bucky in this episode. To her credit, however, she did help them, albeit while hiding a mysterious hidden agenda. All in all, they've made Sharon a much more interesting character than she had been in previous films.

ETA: I'm conflicted about Bucky. On the one hand, I want him to avoid violence and to heal. On the other hand, I love the fight sequences when he goes all Winter Soldier on others.

Edited April 4, 2021 by tv echo

[festivus]

The Sharon thing is interesting to me. Was she snapped, or just assumed to be? Was she on the run the whole time, or is she working undercover? I don't think I like the thought that she could be the Powerbroker. 

I really loved that shot of the high heel avoiding the grate and then later you have Sam saying he couldn't run in these heels. Showing that he doesn't belong in the undercover business of the seedy side of town. Bucky does though, whether he wants to or not. That's the thing; he's got to learn to accept the Winter Soldier side of himself. He can't just bury it like it doesn't exist.

[Emily Thrace]

20 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

According to this
 

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Sharon_Carter    

Sharon disappeared in the Snap, but I have no memory of her being listed among the casualties when they were showing the pictures of the lost in the first scenes of Endgame so I don't know if she survived or not.

She was shown as missing in Endgame along with Shuri and a few others who were blipped. Of course it's possible she was so far underground she was reported missing by her family but it does seem to indicate she was blipped. Which does excuse Steve seeming to forget about her somewhat. If he was on the run for 2 years himself and then was told she was among the lost afterwards.

[Gin and Tonic]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

I'm conflicted about Bucky. On the one hand, I want him to avoid violence and to heal. On the other hand, I love the fight sequences when he goes all Winter Soldier on others.

I think ultimately part of Bucky’s journey is going to be that he’s not defined by the skills he learned during his captivity and conditioning, but that they’re a part of him. The big difference now is that he finally has the agency to choose where and how he applies them. Whether that means taking on another persona like the White Wolf or becoming more of a free agent or what remains to be seen. But going into Winter Solider beast mode in defense of his friends or values - something he can choose - seems like it will be on the table. 

He was distressed by the violence in this episode, but it was also about the loss of control as we see from the gross scene with Selby. 
 

50 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

If he was on the run for 2 years himself and then was told she was among the lost afterwards.

I think Sharon’s resentment is very human, but completely misplaced. Sam and Bucky didn’t make her choices for her. I can see Sam and Bucky’s pardon/reintegration being fast-tracked because they fought Thanos, but they were around. And hasn’t it only been six months? The whole “there’s a difference between ‘was’ and ‘is’ on the run” might be more impactful if Sam was out there living the high life for years but it’s really only been a hot damn second in the midst of global shock. 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Gin and Tonic

[xaxat]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

Then the Snap happened and Sharon was one of the ones Snapped for five years.*

Put me in the Sharon went underground camp. The organization keeping track made the assumption she was snapped. (Much like Scott.) But we know that if Sharon doesn't want to be found, she won't be. And as noted, it takes time to build an operation like she has.

[festivus]

1 minute ago, xaxat said:

Put me in the Sharon went underground camp. The organization keeping track made the assumption she was snapped. (Much like Scott.) But we know that if Sharon doesn't want to be found, she won't be. And as noted, it takes time to build an operation like she has.

That's what I think. If she had been snapped I would have expected her to show up in one of the portals in Endgame.

[paigow]

The Power Broker is a dude... Everybody says him. Only Dickhead Ross would re-start an abandoned CIA project. Also he is dumb enough to leave Nagle unprotected.

[Abra]

Steve absolutely deserved to be happy, but he did not deserve to play god (with billions of lives) so he could be happy, which is exactly what he did. He created an entire alternate universe just so he could clone a woman to be his wife, since the original woman wasn't available to him. Didn't anyone watch Into the Spiderverse? That's the kind of stuff the villain was messing with in that movie.

2 hours ago, festivus said:

The Sharon thing is interesting to me. Was she snapped, or just assumed to be? Was she on the run the whole time, or is she working undercover? I don't think I like the thought that she could be the Powerbroker. 

I'm in the "Sharon was definitely Snapped and is not bitter stop complaining about her attitude" camp, but I admit the idea that she pretended to be Snapped and has been building an empire all these years is intriguing, and also makes me kind of happy because that hopefully means there will be a lot more Sharon in the MCU future. I can't buy that's she's the Power Broker, however. They're evil, right? (Or am I assuming evilness?) Sharon isn't evil. (Although the idea that she faked being Snapped kind of reminds me of that Post Secret where someone said something like everyone who knew them before September 11th thinks they're dead. Creepy and cruel.)

 

[bethy]

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

I'll join the minority and say that, while I liked Sharon in this episode, I never really cared for her character in the MCU.

Sharon's apparent bitterness at her current ex-pat life may be understandable, but I don't think that her hostility toward Sam and Bucky was warranted.

In Civil War, Sharon - as well as Sam and Natalie - chose to help Steve because they believed it was the right thing to do, even if it meant breaking the law. Bucky was the victim of brainwashing and being framed by Zemo. Steve warned Sharon that "they're going to come looking for you," and she replied, "I know." He also thanked her. They did kiss, but was that one kiss an implied promise of some kind? I don't know. But Sam and Bucky didn't kiss Sharon.  Steve, Sam and Bucky were going into a situation where they might die. Sharon did not join them. I don't know if she wasn't asked or if she chose not to go with them.

Post-Civil War, Steve, Sam and Natalie were all on the run together until Infinity War. Steve found Sam locked up in that floating prison. We don't know if Steve searched for Natalie. More likely (imo), Natalie found or tracked down Steve and Sam. At that point, Sharon was a rogue CIA agent who had gone into hiding underground. Maybe Steve looked for her but didn't find her. Maybe Steve thought that Sharon was better off not being with them. I think that it's harder to find one rogue agent than three rogue agents who travel together.  Bucky was in Wakanda being deprogrammed.

Then the Snap happened and Sharon was one of the ones Snapped for five years.* After the final battle with Thanos and everyone was returned, Steve had to return all six Infinity Stones to their original timelines. He had that one opportunity to get his own life in an alternate timeline and reunite with Peggy, the love of his life. He took it. 

(* I do find it unbelievable that Sharon managed to set herself up in such a cushy house with tons of artwork and with such a thriving business in Madripoor during the relatively short time period between Endgame and the start of this series.)

Steve had sacrificed himself repeatedly for the past 10 years and 70 years before that. So I don't begrudge him if he finally wanted to find some happiness for himself. That was after he had been prepared to fight the entire Thanos army all by himself and then did fight (once again) with the other Avengers to defeat Thanos.  He's not obligated to sacrifice himself for the world for the entirety of his existence. Does he owe the world his entire life? Should he have stayed in a time where he wasn't happy, just for the sake of Bucky and Sam - adults who have to find their own destiny - or for the sake of Sharon - whom he didn't love in the way that's needed for a committed relationship? Bucky and Sam understood Steve's decision and didn't resent him for it. In fact, I think they approved of Steve being a little selfish for once.

Steve was also a human being with flaws. He wasn't perfect and never pretended to be.  As Zemo said in this episode, the danger with super soldiers is that we put them on pedestals: "They become symbols. Icons. And then we start to forget about their flaws. From there, cities fly, innocent people die. Movements are formed, wars are fought.” However, I would also say that icons can be both inspirational and aspirational. And, as Bucky noted in this episode, that Captain America shield, as wielded by Steve, saved a lot of lives.

Even if Sharon felt betrayed by Steve in some way, she still took it out on Sam and Bucky in this episode. To her credit, however, she did help them, albeit while hiding a mysterious hidden agenda. All in all, they've made Sharon a much more interesting character than she had been in previous films.

ETA: I'm conflicted about Bucky. On the one hand, I want him to avoid violence and to heal. On the other hand, I love the fight sequences when he goes all Winter Soldier on others.

Yes, to this entire post. 

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Abra said:

 

Steve absolutely deserved to be happy, but he did not deserve to play god (with billions of lives) so he could be happy, which is exactly what he did. He created an entire alternate universe just so he could clone a woman to be his wife, since the original woman wasn't available to him. Didn't anyone watch Into the Spiderverse? That's the kind of stuff the villain was messing with in that movie

 

It’s not the fact that he chose to be happy, it’s HOW he did it, for all the reasons stated above.

And I definitely don’t think Sharon is Power Broker. She’s got more going on than we know, but she isn’t freaking evil. 

She was unfair to Sam and Bucky? Fine, shame on her. But I still don’t blame her.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[bethy]

I liked the call back to Civil War at the end when Sam said, “You’re not going to move the seat up are you” and Bucky just said, “No” in all seriousness. I like the continued prickliness between the two guys even as they do check in with each other and have each other’s backs. 

[Ailianna]

Lots of people have commented on the "Do you know who I am?" line, but I didn't see anyone mention the one that really gets me. When he roughed up the man who spat at him in Germany, as they are leaving he says to Lamar (paraphrasing only slightly) that as long as they got results, no one would care how they got them. To me, that's much scarier--and more a betrayal of who Steve Rogers was as a person--than anything else Walker has done so far.

[paigow]

Walker is from the Jack Bauer / Homeland school...

If Batroc challenged Walker to drop the shield, he would do it... But then shoot Batroc in the head...

[Lebanna]

2 hours ago, Abra said:

Steve absolutely deserved to be happy, but he did not deserve to play god (with billions of lives) so he could be happy, which is exactly what he did.

 

6 hours ago, tv echo said:

Steve had sacrificed himself repeatedly for the past 10 years and 70 years before that. So I don't begrudge him if he finally wanted to find some happiness for himself. That was after he had been prepared to fight the entire Thanos army all by himself and then did fight (once again) with the other Avengers to defeat Thanos.  He's not obligated to sacrifice himself for the world for the entirety of his existence. Does he owe the world his entire life? Should he have stayed in a time where he wasn't happy, just for the sake of Bucky and Sam - adults who have to find their own destiny - or for the sake of Sharon - whom he didn't love in the way that's needed for a committed relationship? Bucky and Sam understood Steve's decision and didn't resent him for it. In fact, I think they approved of Steve being a little selfish for once.

I really love that this universe, as well as Steve and the guys, have us so engrossed that we’ve got to the ‘Of course Greedo/Han would have shot first, it goes to the center of who Han is’ level of obsession about 40 years early.

Right there with all of y’all. (BTW Han definitely shot first, to infinity, no returns).

Edited April 3, 2021 by Lebanna

[Kel Varnsen]

34 minutes ago, paigow said:

If Batroc challenged Walker to drop the shield, he would do it... But then shoot Batroc in the head...

Which kind of would have been the smarter move so I don't thing Walker would have done that. Dropping the shield to show off was the exact opposite of what Carol did to Yonn-Rogg at the end of Captain Marvel. 

3 hours ago, Abra said:

I'm in the "Sharon was definitely Snapped and is not bitter stop complaining about her attitude" camp, but I admit the idea that she pretended to be Snapped and has been building an empire all these years is intriguing, and also makes me kind of happy because that hopefully means there will be a lot more Sharon in the MCU future. 

What I find interesting is that if Sharon has actually been living in exile all these years it means that the Carter name carries zero weight any more. Because if it did surely she could drop Peggy's name to a senator or cabinet secretary or something who was a big fan and get easily pardoned. Which is funny since anytime anyone mentions Peggy Carter she is held up like someone who should be a saint and also on Mount Rushmore.

[xaxat]

It's probably something along the lines of "creating a massive fictional universe is really hard", but I think it is an interesting question as to why Sharon didn't get a pardon. 

Her two offenses were that she sided with Cap and stole some government property during Civil War. 

But Steve led the war and stole government property with Nat in Winter Soldier. He had freedom of movement.

Nat was a Russian spy who stole and stole stuff. She dared the government to arrest her. Her actions were excused.

And we all know about Bucky's history. 

And Sharon is the one who is still on the run? 

[Guest]

On 4/2/2021 at 1:27 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

That Walker—he’s all about showing off and holding Steve’s shield in front of him like it’s a fucking trophy just makes me loathe him even more. And that line “Don’t you know who I am?” is right up there with all the entitled  assholes in real life who expect special treatment because of their wealth.

It was also a really great contrast to Bucky’s, “Don’t you know who he his?” in the last episode. Sam would never say it even to protect himself but Walker will say it to intimidate someone. It perfectly encapsulates which one should be Captain America. 

23 hours ago, Capricasix said:

“Move, or you will be moved.”

I loved that moment and am thrilled to see her here. I was disappointed she wasn’t a bigger part of Black Panther. I wonder if they are setting her up for a bigger role in the Wakanda series. 🤞 

20 hours ago, Kromm said:

Right, but it was at least a few months more, I think, before the government gave the shield to someone else. 

I doubt it’s been that long. There’s been nothing to indicate there was a time jump in the first episode. 

12 minutes ago, xaxat said:

It's probably something along the lines of "creating a massive fictional universe is really hard", but I think it is an interesting question as to why Sharon didn't get a pardon. 

Her two offenses were that she sided with Cap and stole some government property during Civil War. 

But Steve led the war and stole government property with Nat in Winter Soldier. He had freedom of movement.

Nat was a Russian spy who stole and stole stuff. She dared the government to arrest her. Her actions were excused.

And we all know about Bucky's history. 

And Sharon is the one who is still on the run? 

The best guess is that she’s not really on the run or she didn’t want to risk coming forward. Her offenses were minor in comparison but she’s not a famous super hero who fought against Thanos. Public pressure would have worked in the others favor but not in Sharon’s. 

[Abra]

More bullet point-y thoughts/questions after a second viewing, in no particular order:

Bucky using Steve's actual "good things to experience in the 21st century" notebook to list his "people I need to make amends to/about" is kind of fucking me up.

I really do love how dramatic Kari Skogland's directing choices are.

I usually enjoy when a script has drama and humor, but with so much of the humor involving Zemo (and Sam) I found it jarring. Sam was just too comfortable around Zemo too quickly; it doesn't sit right with me. Example: the scene on the plane where Sam's pointing out that Bucky has Steve's book and is trying to bond with him over it and asking what he thought of Trouble Man while Zemo is just sitting over there being a bad guy who also loves the album (but Sam is also too fucking sweet trying to bond with Bucky in hoping he loves it too, I can't). I feel like the episode could have been longer to have it make more sense.

Speaking of the notebook, how did Zemo get his hands on it in the first place? It doesn't seem like Bucky would just set it down anywhere, and he would notice if Zemo five-fingered it off of him.

Bucky gave a small approving nod when Sam finally managed to toss back the snake guts shot at the bar. :)

I don't think Sharon killed Selby, so who? The woman at the bar who took pains to hide her face when the trio first arrived didn't quite have Sharon's nose/mouth, although the outfit tracks.  

"I can't run in these heels!" Sam I love you but you're not even wearing heels.

How did all those bounty hunters even find them at Nagel's shipping container place when they were perfectly safe at Sharon's? Who tipped them off/what kind of tech do they have/is it like CCTV everywhere in Low Town/is Sharon being surveilled?

So does Karli just have 12 vials of the super soldier serum that she's carrying around on her person all the time? Where else could she keep them safe? And I know next to nothing about the Power Broker but I know he's not going to be begging her for anything. She's still in trouble.

Bucky's attitude in this show about the shield and the world needing a new Captain America doesn't feel in character to me. He has always followed Steve, not the symbolism, so I'm trying to wrap my head around his current attitude. I can of course understand his being upset about Sam giving away the shield that Steve gave him, and being pissed that it, and the CA title, were given to John fucking Walker. But I don't see him having esteem for the Captain America role itself, as its own separate thing that is needed. Unless it's because it and Sam are his last connections to Steve and he's just clinging to them and not examining his attitude more than that, so that's more sad shit for me to think about.

Certain people should not wear turtlenecks. Looking at you Zemo. Sam, you're lovely.

Please can we have scenes with Sharon and Ayo together? Please could we have them kicking ass in every episode from now on?

I wonder if Dovich will eventually turn on Karli somehow now that he's seen she's a murderer. I hope the show doesn't shy away from the cause she's fighting for, and just condemns her actions.

It bothers me that Sebastian Stan's name is first in the credits. It should be Anthony's.

[festivus]

10 minutes ago, Abra said:

 It bothers me that Sebastian Stan's name is first in the credits. It should be Anthony's.

They're switching them up. Anthony was first last week.

[bethy]

I keep meaning to ask: How did Zemo get Bucky's notebook?

[TheCouchPotato]

Falcon and Bucky have such amazing chemistry. Disney is giving Netflix originals a run for their money. This show is fantastic, and I love me some Bucky!  

[VCRTracking]

Also after years of just knowing him from appearances Night Court and that episode of Seinfeld I find out Mel Torme had an absolute bop " Comin' Home Baby"(the song the scientist was listening too). Finding a video of his performing it on The Judy Garland Show made my week!

[formerlyfreedom]

As with the previous episode topics, this topic is to discuss the episode. This is not the place to re-litigate Marvel movies, what Steve did in this movie or that one, etc. There is a topic for those discussions. Going forward in this topic, posts may be removed and other sanctions may be handed out for posts that are not primarily about the episode.  Thank you.

[swanpride]

It's a small detail, but my favourite moment in the first was when the goon went around the corner and Sharon was already waiting for him, shooting him immediately. Frankly, the whole fight scene was way better than the one with the truck last week. It had a better rhythm to it...plus, I didn't have this uncanny valley feeling which I had there and in the prison sequence. I love that Marvel goes more international though, even if they don't hit the notes 100% (btw, the guy who spoke German certainly wasn't a native speaker, but he pulled the language off better than in most movies and TV show, so I guess at least some care was taken).

[norcalgal]

2 hours ago, TheCouchPotato said:

Falcon and Bucky have such amazing chemistry. Disney is giving Netflix originals a run for their money. This show is fantastic, and I love me some Bucky!  

Co-signed. I was just meh about Bucky in the films, but I'm enjoying the Bucky that we're seeing in this series. Understandably, that's because a tv show has much more time to flesh out a character...so yay!

Does anyone know if this series is just a one-off?  Or was the plan always to have more than one season?

[swanpride]

Officially it was supposed to be only one season, but unlike the concept of Wandavision, this is one which can be easily extended to more than 6 episodes, so I wouldn't bet on there not being a sequel.

[Zonk]

Good episode. Not that much else to say about it. No major developments, but nice action.

  

On 4/2/2021 at 2:34 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Uh, the whole Endgame ending was wildly out of character for Steve, but let's not go down that road again...

It also didn't work with the rules of time travel they had previously set up in the movie...

Edited April 4, 2021 by Zonk

[RamS]

Wow, I just found this forum and this is one of the best discussions of the episode/show.  A lot of you have said anything I'd want to say, including the diplomatic reference to Zemo's "dad dancing." To me  that was a cringey scene where it reminded me of Trump "dancing" to YMCA or Elon Musk "dancing" when he unveiled the CyberTruck. Apparently the actor is a good dancer on Instagram or wherever but referring to what was shown in this episode, the whole fist pumping at a club is kind of lame - now if he had dropped to the floor and done the break dancing that ravers do that would've been impressive.

It's all fiction I know, I also have a hard time letting go of Zemo's past crimes killing innocent people including T'chaka and framing it on Bucky and I'm betting he's going to betray the Bucky and Sam once they serve their purpose. So as a villain he's great but as an anti-hero, not yet for me. 

--Ram

 

[cambridgeguy]

17 hours ago, festivus said:

They're switching them up. Anthony was first last week.

And it fits the theme of the episode.  Sam was very much a sidekick this week - Bucky made the decision to help free Zemo on his own and his issues took center stage.  Zemo and Sharon did the cool stuff.  Sam had to play comic relief (enjoy your snake guts drink and running in heels?) and bumbler (turn off your damned phone).

[paigow]

Do the Sokovia Accords still exist? Even if Sokovia itself "disappeared"? Maybe this is how Daredevil / Murdock can be introduced to argue at The Hague...

[Abra]

55 minutes ago, paigow said:

Do the Sokovia Accords still exist? Even if Sokovia itself "disappeared"? Maybe this is how Daredevil / Murdock can be introduced to argue at The Hague...

In WandaVision, Jimmy Woo mentioned something about Wanda violating the Sokovia Accords by taking Vision's body when Dickface Hayward lied about her having done so. Now, what the Sokovia Accords actually entail, especially post-Blip? Who knows.

[KittenPokerCheater]

17 minutes ago, Abra said:

Now, what the Sokovia Accords actually entail,

Maybe they're just guidelines.....  /tm Pirates of the Caribbean.

The move up the seat/no was a hilarious callback and it made me laugh.

Zemo is funny here, but the way he was "selling" Bucky was chilling.  Zemo is going to turn on them like a scorpion, and I'm afraid of the fallout from it.

Cap Cosplay has been serum-ed too, I think.  But when he said,  "Do you know who I am?" I wanted to smack him.  The suit by itself is nothing but cheesy window dressing. As Steve had now proved, it's the man in the suit who can be a hero, not the suit on a man. 

[festivus]

59 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Zemo is funny here, but the way he was "selling" Bucky was chilling.  Zemo is going to turn on them like a scorpion, and I'm afraid of the fallout from it.

Oh, they know that's coming. I'm interested in what happens with him picking at those scabs while he's with them. I'm also not happy they mentioned Isaiah in front of Zemo. Not smart, guys. 

That scene gave me the shivers. It's hard to not see it as a sex slave thing although since this is Disney I doubt they're going much farther with it. But we were supposed to pick that up and think about it.

[RollTheHardSix]

I liked this episode better than the previous ones. 

I am surprised that I actually like Zemo and also surprised that he made it through the episode and didn't disappear on them (and us). 

Though I am a bit apprehensive about the sh*t that Bucky and Sam are pulling... especially Bucky. Is he trying to get on the express train straight to jail or the most wanted list? Sam didn't seem so keen on all of that but went along with it anyway.

It still feels like one big movie where they cut out the "boring scenes" - some of which would have been relevant for character development and storyline buildup - it feels like some of these developments are so sudden that the character motivations are barely fleshed out.

Also at least half of time I feel like I don't know what's REALLY going on. Who's the friend / who's the enemy / what the hell is really going on here? 

Are they going totally underground again? Are they supposed to be good / bad / gray? I am confused - am I supposed to be confused? Is that what they are going for? That there is no good and evil, no black and white (morality-wise)?

More questions than answers.

Edited April 4, 2021 by RollTheHardSix

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 4/2/2021 at 10:39 PM, VCRTracking said:

Loved Zemo being revealed to be a Baron, not just because it's true to the comics but also that German accented Sovikians are ruling nobility while the poor ones like Wanda and Pietro sound more Slavic.

Random thought: Zemo never smiles. Not even when he was on the dance floor at Sharon's party. He always looks stone-serious, and while it fits the character, even when he's amused, it looks more like a smirk than a smile.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Cobalt Stargazer

[Bruinsfan]

On 4/2/2021 at 6:56 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

 But now that you mention it, to buy her story, we have to believe that somehow no one gave Sharon a second thought amid all their being on the run and following the Snap. Seems wildly out of character for Steve at a minimum, not to mention Fury.

My headcanon is Steve realized how icky making out with Sharon 15 minutes after Peggy's funeral was and unconsciously avoided thinking about her throughout all the subsequent movies.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

On 4/3/2021 at 7:07 AM, tv echo said:

(* I do find it unbelievable that Sharon managed to set herself up in such a cushy house with tons of artwork and with such a thriving business in Madripoor during the relatively short time period between Endgame and the start of this series.).

 

On 4/3/2021 at 7:47 AM, festivus said:

The Sharon thing is interesting to me. Was she snapped, or just assumed to be? Was she on the run the whole time, or is she working undercover? I don't think I like the thought that she could be the Powerbroker. 

Count me in as another one confused if Sharon was blipped or not, and hoping TFAWS clears it up definitively. I think it seems unlikely, as TV Echo pointed out, that she could have set up her new identity this quickly even if she did have outside help (such as a likely Wakanda connection). On the other hand, while I can certainly see that she stayed undercover for some reason when she was being looked for following Endgame*, if ever there would have been a time when her past indiscretions might have been forgiven in exchange for her assistancein rebuilding, it would have been then. I'm not sure she would have needed to work covertly, unless she thought she was doing good in a Hawkeye/Ronin way?

*Regarding Sharon's appearance as one of the vanished, all I can offer is that the Avengers also had Scott Lang listed there as well. While he legitimately was where no one could have found him or thought to look, Sharon is a trained covert operative. The Avengers seemed to even have trouble keeping track of Hawkeye, who wasn't doing a lot to cover his tracks.

[TheCouchPotato]

21 hours ago, norcalgal said:

Co-signed. I was just meh about Bucky in the films, but I'm enjoying the Bucky that we're seeing in this series. Understandably, that's because a tv show has much more time to flesh out a character...so yay!

Does anyone know if this series is just a one-off?  Or was the plan always to have more than one season?

Agree w/ this. Bucky was not a very developed character, personality-wise, in the movies and neither was Falcon. Enjoying the character development in this series. 

[tv echo]

The New York Times review of this episode made an implied comparison between the fake/real art work in Sharon's gallery and the "fake"/"real" Captain America:

Quote

Whatever this episode’s failings when it comes to the construction of thrilling and emotionally compelling fights and chases, at least Kolstad and Skogland take the time to include some of those thoughtful conversations and pertinent asides — like the part where Bucky and Sharon explain to Sam that most of the great paintings and statues in museums are replicas. Even as the story races ahead, it’s always worth taking a few moments to think about what makes an image meaningful … and whether fakes and replacements can move and inspire people, the same as the originals.

Let's say that John Walker had been written to be a perfectly decent guy and did not make any of the cringe-worthy comments that he made in this episode (and previous episodes). Would he still be an acceptable replacement for Steve Rogers? Would people ever accept the replacement? Or can nothing ever replace the original?

Edited April 5, 2021 by tv echo

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

The New York Times review of this episode made an implied comparison between the fake/real art work in Sharon's gallery and the "fake"/"real" Captain America:

Let's say that John Walker had been written to be a perfectly decent guy and did not make any of the cringe-worthy comments that he made in this episode (and previous episodes). Would he still be an acceptable replacement for Steve Rogers? Would people ever accept the replacement? Or can nothing ever replace the original?

Do you mean to we the viewers or to Falcon/Bucky or to the MCU public at large? 

Because the answers probably vary greatly.

I suspect that for a lot of fans, nobody but Steve's anointed successor would do as Cap. And even some of them would not be happy with either Cap Falcon or Cap Bucky. 

I think Sam would have been perfectly fine with Walker if he was worthy, and Bucky would have been wary regardless.

I am guessing the public in general is happy enough to have Cap back that they won't care to look too deeply at who John is once they know that enough boxes have been checked. 

[MochaJay]

On 4/3/2021 at 11:34 PM, Abra said:

More bullet point-y thoughts/questions after a second viewing, in no particular order:

Bucky using Steve's actual "good things to experience in the 21st century" notebook to list his "people I need to make amends to/about" is kind of fucking me up.

I really do love how dramatic Kari Skogland's directing choices are.

I do too. I don't know if there is an appropriate thread to discuss All-season stylistic choices and themes. 

In this episode the sylistic flourish that most stood out to me was the cut from the GRC advert to the GRC logo on the vehicle used for new-Cap's dawn raid. Which I realised today reminds me of the satirical fascist propaganda of Starship Troopers.

23 hours ago, festivus said:

Oh, they know that's coming. I'm interested in what happens with him picking at those scabs while he's with them. I'm also not happy they mentioned Isaiah in front of Zemo. Not smart, guys. 

That scene gave me the shivers. It's hard to not see it as a sex slave thing although since this is Disney I doubt they're going much farther with it. But we were supposed to pick that up and think about it.

I don't think that's what they are aiming for, more that making the connection is inevitable because Zemo was offering total control of the Winter Soldier, and other forms of abuse are also about control.

I didn't even think to be worried about Zemo knowing about Isaiah, I'd already locked in on being worried he knows about Yori. I thought maybe they were done with Isaiah on this show and we would next see him on one of the other D+ shows, but this could bring the plot back round to him.

I've been thinking about the inevitable conflict between Zemo and Sam & Bucky once the Flag Smashers are dealt with:
Sam - wants Zemo back in prison.
Zemo - does not want to go back to prison. And despite not seeming to hold personal animosity to Bucky, is ideologically comitted to killing all Super Soldiers. When he noted Yori's name in the notebook he can't have missed his own name on the other list.
Bucky - I'm wondering what sort of amends he planning with Zemo before they got on the trail of the new serum. Maybe he was already researching the prison security.

Bucky was expecting a Wakandan to show up. We're assuming Ayo will be opposed to working with Zemo, but he is no longer really needed as they tracked the Hydra connection. So maybe Bucky wants Zemo in Wakandan custody because he trusts they'll do a better at holding him prisoner than the German authorities. I think I'd like to see Bucky give his Rule #3 spech and insincere smile to Zemo.
 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by MochaJay
grammar

[festivus]

11 minutes ago, MochaJay said:

I don't think that's what they are aiming for, more that making the connection is inevitable because Zemo was offering total control of the Winter Soldier, and other forms of abuse are also about control.

Possibly. I got the creeps off that scene but it could be more because Zemo was patting his face like he was a dog under his control than it was sexual. Regardless, it's pretty dark and they wanted us to note it. Too bad Bucky had to be in character as WS so we couldn't get a read from his facial expression. I did love the plane scene later on where he just seems on the edge of losing it.

[swanpride]

It's very likely that it is part of Bucky's plan to give Zemo to Wakanda in the end, but I don't think that he discussed the part of the plan with Wakanda beforehand. He is currently pulling of his own little operation, and Sam and Zemo are more in for the ride than anything else. One should never underestimate Bucky's ability to be sneaky. After all, he managed to hide from the world and Steve (and that is the harder part) for a while year.

[Bruinsfan]

I really hope we get to see Ayo or another of the Dora Milaje hand Walker his ass in a fight. And then him being informed she's not a super-soldier, she's just that good.

[Chicago Redshirt]

16 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

I really hope we get to see Ayo or another of the Dora Milaje hand Walker his ass in a fight. And then him being informed she's not a super-soldier, she's just that good.

I am not so specific. I am pretty much down for any and everyone this side of Battlestar to hand Walker his ass in a fight. Maybe Battlestar too. 

I want it to be like that scene from Airplane, where the woman is panicking, and someone slaps her to try to get her to snap out of it, and then the next person hits her harder, and there's a whole line of people waiting to smack her. The same sort of sitch for Walker, except for beatdowns.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Chicago Redshirt

[Emily Thrace]

Something to think about with regards to Sharon being the power broker is

Spoiler

 Emily VanCamp missed three episodes of The Resident to film this show. I doubt the scenes she shot for this episode took three weeks to film. So whoever Sharon Carter is now I suspect we will see her again