S01.E03: Power Broker

[Dandesun]

Walker doesn't strike me as remotely super powered right now. A highly skilled individual? Yes. Like Sam, Clint or Natasha. But I wonder if the opportunity will arise for him to take it... hard to say. At any rate, in the 2nd episode when Sam and Bucky brought up the fact that who they fought seemed to be powered by the Serum, Walker and Hoskins both seemed VERY surprised. And neither character has been established as  being particularly good actors.

[GHScorpiosRule]

That Walker—he’s all about showing off and holding Steve’s shield in front of him like it’s a fucking trophy just makes me loathe him even more. And that line “Don’t you know who I am?” is right up there with all the entitled  assholes in real life who expect special treatment because of their wealth.

This is going to be wholly unpopular, but here goes: I don’t give a shit about Sharon*. No one forced her to side with Steve in Winter Soldier against HYDRA. And if helping Steve, again, in Civil War that had her on the run, so did the others. Did she do it hoping she wouldn’t have to go underground? Like was she looking for a quid pro quo? 

Sam and especially Bucky shouldn’t be the focus of her bitterness/anger.

What she said about the Stars and Stripes may have sounded good on paper, but it didn’t work for me.

I blame the different writers and directors for not fleshing out her character and for what they did to Steve’s character. He’s still my favorite character in the MCU.

I really think Sharon killed Selby.

I guess in this universe there are strings to pardons? Because there is no such thing as “violating terms of a pardon” The point of that is to forgive all previous crimes committed; some also have included future actions. Now if Bucky was on parole, one could throw in he broke the terms of parole.

I didn’t and don’t read any of the comics. 

What I found irritating was how sometimes the German would be subtitled so I knew what was being said; other times just a “speaking German” was provided.😒

I’ll have to rewatch because I missed the Zemo dancing.
 

*It’s possible my dislike for the actress has bled into my dislike for the character.

Edited April 2, 2021 by GHScorpiosRule

[Cerulean]

This felt very cinematic although there was something weird about the arrival to the city. 
 

However I really doubt that Bucky and Sam would be arguing about directions in a gunfight. After, maybe, but during seems a little silly. 

[Cthulhudrew]

I went back and rewatched the Nagle scene, and I think what I initially interpreted as a "shared secret" glance between Zemo and Nagle was wrong. I think it was actually more like foreshadowing (ie, I no longer suspect Zemo might be the Power Broker):

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I liked this episode. Sharon going John Wick in the port was great. Although I wasn't sure how Zemo got out of his own cell.

8 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The comics version of Zemo was always a baron. 

It's plausible that despite being rich, Zemo worked as a covert ops soldier because he was a patriot, or because he had a sense of noblesse oblige, or because of a jones for power.

It's of course not the same thing, but in America, there are rich people who join the military to pave the way for political careers or because of family tradition.

Plus Sokovia seems like the exact place where a rich crazy guy could buy his way into a special forces unit.

7 hours ago, tv echo said:

Live thoughts while watching this episode...

This Global Repatriation Council PR video is so deliberately diverse that it's ironic. 

I liked how they went from the commercial where the GRC was supposed to be social workers helping people, then next scene they are militarized cops.

4 hours ago, festivus said:

I liked ikedthed with Ayo showing up. Of course Wakanda is going to have a problem with Zemo being out. 

There was a nice bit of foreshadowing since Bucky and Sam talked about Wakanda having problems with Zemo earlier in the episode.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I blame the different writers and directors for not fleshing out her character and for what they did to Steve’s character. He’s still my favorite character in the MCU.

Except what Steve did in Endgame was precisely fuck-all to do with Sharon. I said it upthread, but the ones Rogers really did leave behind, Sam and Bucky, haven't had one peep to say against him, but Barnes wants to give Sam grief because he didn't "respect" Steve's legacy? The legacy he abandoned so he could fart off into the past, not to mention what it did/does to Peggy Carter as a character. Sharon's a big girl and she chose to help Steve? Okay, sure, but Sam and Bucky are grown-ass men, and yet somehow we should feel sorry for them because Steve's a selfish idiot who couldn't deal with living in the present anymore. "Oh, if only Bucky had more support from someone who's been there!" Yeah, if only. But also don't criticize Steve because he should be "allowed" to be a selfish idiot, even though it would be awesome if Bucky had more support from someone who's been there. Pick a gear, ya'll.

As for the stuff about pardons, the government or whoever was pretty quick to yank on Bucky's leash when he missed his therapy session, to the point where he was taken out of Isaiah's neighborhood in handcuffs. That was just for not seeing Dr. Raynor when he was supposed to. Now he's broken a dangerous criminal out of prison and is letting him help with the search for the Flag Smashers, and Zemo shot Nagel in cold blood. I should imagine the consequences for that should be a lot heavier.

[Cthulhudrew]

32 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I liked this episode. Sharon going John Wick in the port was great. Although I wasn't sure how Zemo got out of his own cell.

That was a little confusing to me, too. Bucky refers to the book Zemo is reading, so maybe Bucky gave him that book with the "lockpick" or whatever it was that Zemo finds inside, and he uses it to get out? I will have to go back and see if there is some visual cue as to where the book came from.

[shoetingstar]

58 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

That Walker—he’s all about showing off and holding Steve’s shield in front of him like it’s a fucking trophy just makes me loathe him even more. And that line “Don’t you know who I am?” is right up there with all the entitled  assholes in real life who expect special treatment because of their wealth.

This is going to be wholly unpopular, but here goes: I don’t give a shit about Sharon*. No one forced her to side with Steve in Winter Soldier against HYDRA. And if helping Steve, again, in Civil War that had her on the run, so did the others. Did she do it hoping she wouldn’t have to go underground? Like was she looking for a quid pro quo? 

I really think Sharon killed Selby.

I think it was her that killed Selby. Someone pulled their hoodie tighter to hide their face, when Zemo started talking to the Bartender. Gender wasn't clear - she could have hid out of sight until Sam's phone call screwed them up. 

I didn't get the big deal about her return. I enjoyed her nevertheless. I could see them matching her with Sam if they introduce that element in the show.

btw, am I the only one that wants to call ZEE-mo, NEMO? lol

Edited April 2, 2021 by shoetingstar

[Kel Varnsen]

23 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

That was a little confusing to me, too. Bucky refers to the book Zemo is reading, so maybe Bucky gave him that book with the "lockpick" or whatever it was that Zemo finds inside, and he uses it to get out? I will have to go back and see if there is some visual cue as to where the book came from.

I am curious as to what other people saw. Because it looks like Bucky gave Zemo the key card. But even if he had that, why would anyone design a prison cell that is unlockable from the inside?

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

That Walker—he’s all about showing off and holding Steve’s shield in front of him like it’s a fucking trophy just makes me loathe him even more. And that line “Don’t you know who I am?” is right up there with all the entitled  assholes in real life who expect special treatment because of their wealth.

This is going to be wholly unpopular, but here goes: I don’t give a shit about Sharon*. No one forced her to side with Steve in Winter Soldier against HYDRA. And if helping Steve, again, in Civil War that had her on the run, so did the others. Did she do it hoping she wouldn’t have to go underground? Like was she looking for a quid pro quo? 

Sam and especially Bucky shouldn’t be the focus of her bitterness/anger.

What she said about the Stars and Stripes may have sounded good on paper, but it didn’t work for me.

I blame the different writers and directors for not fleshing out her character and for what they did to Steve’s character. He’s still my favorite character in the MCU.

I really think Sharon killed Selby.

I guess in this universe there are strings to pardons? Because there is no such thing as “violating terms of a pardon” The point of that is to forgive all previous crimes committed; some also have included future actions. Now if Bucky was on parole, one could throw in he broke the terms of parole.

Sharon, who stole the killer story about planting yourself like a tree to tell the whole world to eff off when you know you're in the right from  Steve, should not be whining that the world hit back. (Especially if as things appear, that she was able to secure herself a lifestyle of luxury as an ex-pat.)

But again, it seems bizarre that while on the run, Steve and co. would leave a person behind. Especially one Steve was romantically involved with.  I hope Sharon didn't kill Selby. Seems like she's not the type to a) kill people in cold blood and b) put Our Heroes in danger.

I believe at least hypothetically, in the real world, the president could attached whatever strings they want to a pardon. It's just that most of them make them unconditional, because why not? Also, given Bucky's numerous international crimes over the years and his violation of the Sokovia Accords and Civil War/fugitive shenanigans most recently, I would think that there would have to be other nations/bodies to pardon him for it to mean much. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

17 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I am curious as to what other people saw. Because it looks like Bucky gave Zemo the key card. But even if he had that, why would anyone design a prison cell that is unlockable from the inside?

Bucky presumably slipped Zemo the key card. Zemo did not use the key card to get out of his own cell. It seems to me that it was during recreational time where people were able to be out and about, which is why the two people were playing chess. 

Zemo uses a key card to maneuver around in the prison, but I was under the impression that he was just using the one from the guard he beat up and stole the clothes from. Maybe the key card hat was in the book was a backup, or maybe it allowed access to something on the outside of the prison. Zemo had to figure out how/where to find Bucky after all.  

[Spartan Girl]

Okay correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Selby about to kill Sam and Bucky because Sam's stupid phone call blew their cover? So if Sharon did shoot Selby -- and I'm pretty sure she did -- she just saved their butts.

[shoetingstar]

16 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I am curious as to what other people saw. Because it looks like Bucky gave Zemo the key card. But even if he had that, why would anyone design a prison cell that is unlockable from the inside?

Zemo had the keycard in the book already. When Bucky asked "What's the book you're reading?" he took it as some kind of signal that something would go down. "Machiavelli" means something in their world. When the lock-down started - it looks like Zemo's cell opened, (which doesn't make sense.) So I'm fanwanking that the guard was distracted due to "all hands on deck procedures" and Zemos slipped through the door and surprised him. He then knocked him out and put on his suit. Then used the keycard to get through he security door.

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Okay correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Selby about to kill Sam and Bucky because Sam's stupid phone call blew their cover? So if Sharon did shoot Selby -- and I'm pretty sure she did -- she just saved their butts.

Selby was saying "kill them" when she got shot. So a couple of possible problems with it being Sharon. 

1. If Sharon was killing to save Our Heroes and Zemo,, she would have done a shitty job of it, because Selby wasn't armed or a direct threat, and she didn't bother to snipe the people who actually did have weapons.

2. Sharon would have known that Bucky faced no threat from these guys.

3. Pretty immediately after the shooting of Selby someone put a reward for the people who shot her of 1k in bitcoin, which is $58 million. It seems improbable that someone would put out a reward that big that soon after the shooting for it to be anything but a setup to get Our Heroes and Zemo.

[Lebanna]

I dunno guys, if I were Sharon I’d be so pissed because she was really trying, and let’s face it, we’ve all been there. But I kind of read Steve’s desertion, once he had a route back, as inevitable.

I mean, it was Peggy Carter. Even Steve, great as he was, is human. I don’t think a saint could turn her down. Certainly Bucky gets it, we already saw that he’d have gone with Peggy anywhere in a heartbeat if she’d ever noticed he existed. I think Sam would be cool with it as well. They loved and needed Steve, he loved them, they were besties. But, you know, it was Peggy. The fact that it was out of character was kind of the point. That love was beyond any kind of reasoning or resistance.

But yeah, Steve has to have been in an alt-universe, or he’d have left Hydra in charge of Peggy’s beloved S.H.E.I.L.D (and the world) and Bucky being tortured for seventy years. He just can’t have been in our Prime universe, or he’d have been a monster.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Lebanna

[Capricasix]

9 hours ago, tv echo said:

(* According to one media recap, she is Ayo, second-in-command of the Dora Milaje. She's played by Florence Kasumba.)

“Move, or you will be moved.”

[Spartan Girl]

9 minutes ago, Lebanna said:

I mean, it was Peggy Carter. Even Steve, great as he was, is human. I don’t think a saint could turn her down. Certainly Bucky gets it, we already saw that he’d have gone with a Peggy anywhere in a heartbeat if she’d ever noticed he existed. I think Sam would be cool with it as well. They loved and needed Steve, he loved them, they were besties. But, you know, it was Peggy. The fact that it was out of character was kind of the point. That love was beyond any kind of reasoning or resistance.

If she’d been killed in action or spent the rest of her life as a lonely old spinster pining for Steve, I might have seen it that way. But she didn’t. She moved on and was happy with another man. Pre-Endgame Steve understood and respected that. You love someone, you want THEM to be happy. Messing with the timeline and hijacking someone else’s life for your own gratification is just wrong. The fact that Steve chose to do this instead of seek happiness in the present like any other person would do is just wrong. And the fact that in doing this he left Bucky to flounder and didn’t try to track down Sharon and get her a pardon (even before the snap/blip/whatever was undone)— a much better way to honor Peggy the so-called love of his life IMHO — makes it even shittier.

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And if helping Steve, again, in Civil War that had her on the run, so did the others. Did she do it hoping she wouldn’t have to go underground? Like was she looking for a quid pro quo? 

I don’t think that was the case, but if he could bust out the other Avengers from the brig and track down Natasha, it would have been nice if he tried to do the same for Sharon, if Peggy meant that much to him. Hell, Snape did that much for Harry Potter (despite how toxic that whole fixation on Lily was).

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

That Walker—he’s all about showing off and holding Steve’s shield in front of him like it’s a fucking trophy just makes me loathe him even more. And that line “Don’t you know who I am?” is right up there with all the entitled  assholes in real life who expect special treatment because of their wealth.

Agreed.

[RedElf]

Did anybody else have a problem where you had to put the show on full screen to be able to read the closed captioning?

They're doing an action in Germany and didn't think to bring a German interpreter?  Also, the GRC are cops, huh? And Walker has turned into the expected complete asshole.

Damn, Sharon's a badass.   Emily reminds me of her role on Revenge.

Everybody in Low Town is looking for them, but nobody in High Town recognizes them?

Well, I was feeling sympathy for Karli till she blew up the building.

Beautiful city scenes.  I wonder where they were filmed.  That Madripoor had to be Shanghai, right?

 

[RedElf]

10 hours ago, tv echo said:

This Global Repatriation Council PR video is so deliberately diverse that it's ironic. 

Same with the Flagsmashers and the thugs in Madripoor.

[Kromm]

10 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

As another example a lot of the British Royals join the armed forces too in order to justify their fancy military titles.

There's nothing preventing Sharon from being on an official mission AND guilt tripping the boys. 

Speaking of which, apparently Sam is just like every other person and is completely incapable of turning off his damned phone.

 

He even had it in vibration mode. It just vibrated LOUD. 

[Cerulean]

It occurs to me that all this stuff about “What Steve would want” is silly. Just find the guy and ask him- He’s old, not dead. 

Edited April 2, 2021 by Cerulean
Odd extra letter

[Kromm]

1 minute ago, Cerulean said:

OIt occurs to me that all this stuff about “What Steve would want” is silly. Just find the guy and ask him- He’s old, not dead. 

They're pretending otherwise for some reason. And by "they" I mean the MCU.  It's bizarre. I mean I get that you can't get the actor to be available... but still. 

I will say that in universe, everyone OTHER than The Avengers and Bucky might think he's dead.  Maybe. 

[Kromm]

5 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said:

Might be more fun if she turned out to be the Power Broker.

I'd immediately had that thought too. 

And yet she didn't (visibly) betray them, so there's more going on if that's the case. 

[MochaJay]

The trend continues that Bucky's journey is more internal, Sam's external. In the previous more character-focused episodes it was Bucky working to make himself whole & Sam finding his place in something larger than himself. In this more plot-focused episode, Bucky has to revisit parts of himself he does not want, Sam is journey to strange new places where being an Avenger never took him.

 

I did enjoy the dynamic of Sam as the Naive Newcomer with the various guides that are already experienced operating in this Underworld. And Lowtown presents a reversal of the spaces Sam usually occupies; there's no worry about an Avenger being recognised, but the presence of the Winter Soldier spreads excitement through the crowd. This is probably one of the places rumours of him spread even before Natasha dumped all the SHIELD-Hyrdra files in the world.

[RedElf]

One thing I forgot to mention above.  How long has it been since the Return, that they've already got refugee camps and an international bureaucracy set up?  

[Cerulean]

 

16 minutes ago, RedElf said:

One thing I forgot to mention above.  How long has it been since the Return, that they've already got refugee camps and an international bureaucracy set up?  

Well, we know that it’s been at least six months of storage plus whatever time it took to gather and store those supplies in a warehouse. 

[Cthulhudrew]

1 hour ago, shoetingstar said:

Zemo had the keycard in the book already. When Bucky asked "What's the book you're reading?" he took it as some kind of signal that something would go down. "Machiavelli" means something in their world. 

That's why I think Bucky was the one that somehow got him the book with keycard. Machiavelli is famous for the concept of "the ends justify the means." So my take is that Zemo already had the book, knew of the special bookmark (whatever it was), but didn't act on it until Bucky showed up, asked "whatcha readin'?" And was able to make the association that "my former enemy is providing me the means to escape because he needs my help and is willing to break the laws of this country for what he perceives as a greater good". 

[RedElf]

8 minutes ago, Cerulean said:

 

Well, we know that it’s been at least six months of storage plus whatever time it took to gather and store those supplies in a warehouse. 

I thought Karli was just saying they had six months of supplies, not that they had had them for six months.

 

[paigow]

The REAL Smiling Tiger is in for an unpleasant surprise. 

[Cthulhudrew]

1 hour ago, RedElf said:

One thing I forgot to mention above.  How long has it been since the Return, that they've already got refugee camps and an international bureaucracy set up?  

This is not a bad question, actually. It definitely seems to shift the time frame from Wandavision somewhat, if only because those GRC commercials would have taken some time to create.

At the same time, my guess would be that the Global Repatriation Council is probably some sub-group of a related international humanitarian agency, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross or UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs or something. In other words, it probably wasn't spun up from nothing, but was a repurposing of assistance that would otherwise go into different areas of more traditional refugee or IDP (internally displaced persons) aid.

I'd like to think that pre-planning for this was something that the Avengers started before they began their hunt for the Infinity Stones, but unfortunately I don't think they put a lot of thought into what the long-term repercussions of bringing back half the world's population would entail and just went ahead and did it anyway.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Cthulhudrew

[xaxat]

2 hours ago, RedElf said:

One thing I forgot to mention above.  How long has it been since the Return, that they've already got refugee camps and an international bureaucracy set up?  

In the Smithsonian ceremony, Sam says that it was a "few months ago".

[Kromm]

10 minutes ago, xaxat said:

In the Smithsonian ceremony, Sam says that it was a "few months ago".

Right, but it was at least a few months more, I think, before the government gave the shield to someone else. 

[Starry-Eyed]

3 hours ago, Kromm said:

They're pretending otherwise for some reason. And by "they" I mean the MCU.  It's bizarre. I mean I get that you can't get the actor to be available... but still. 

I will say that in universe, everyone OTHER than The Avengers and Bucky might think he's dead.  Maybe. 

It genuinely confuses me. Is it possible that Old Man Steve died off-screen shortly after Endgame?

[VCRTracking]

Loved Zemo being revealed to be a Baron, not just because it's true to the comics but also that German accented Sovikians are ruling nobility while the poor ones like Wanda and Pietro sound more Slavic.

[emma675]

9 hours ago, xaxat said:

In the previouslies they replayed the scene in the jeep where Walker tells Sam that the serum doesn't have a great track record. In the scene where Walker is talking to Lemar after the raid, there is a brief moment where he looks disoriented. Confirmation that he has taken serum? It could explain his increasing assholishness aggression. I don't think the guy we met in the locker room would drop the "Do you know who I am!" line. (It also might explain Kari's actions.)

I noticed this, too, although it was so brief I thought I might have imagined it. With this and the way Walker throws the shield around, I think he might have been experimented on during those military tests he mentioned in the last episode. He's still an ass, I cheered when that guy spit in his face.

I cannot believe how dark they went with Zemo offering up Bucky in exchange for information from Selby. I couldn't read Bucky's face in that scene, he either looked like he was resigned to playing the part or fighting off some awful flashbacks. 

I love to hate Zemo, he's such a great villain. So many layers, so much hidden darkness, sarcasm, a cheesy coat and mask, and dad dancing? Yes, please. Daniel Bruhl seems like he's having a blast in this role. 

And Ayo! Yes.

[wanderingstar]

I liked this. 

Loved watching Sharon John Wick her way through that group of baddies.

Seeing Zemo again was also fun. Daniel Bruhl is a delight to watch.

When Ayo showed up at the end, I got mad that the episode was over.

 

[mac123x]

Wow, what an episode of conveniences bordering on contrivances.

1. Zemo happens to be wealthy and able to fly them where ever they need to go.
2. Zemo knows who to start with in Madripoor despite having spent several years in prison.
3. Sharon happens to be in Madripoor and happens to be in the area to save their asses when things go south.
4. Zemo again happens to have a place to go in Riga.
5. Bucky happens to see the Wakandaball lying on the ground and knows to follow the breadcrumb trail.

 

Having lived in Indonesia for 2 years, every single scene set in Madripoor took me out of the story.  Does the costume department not have access to Google Maps?  Indonesia is on the equator.  It's freaking HOT and WET there year 'round.  No way is any bounty-hunter for hire wearing a leather coat and wool cap.  Everyone was way too layered; hell, our intrepid threesome wore the same clothes there as they did in Riga, Latvia.  I realize the scenes for both were probably shot in Prague, but still that was LAZY costuming.

Also, no inhabited city in Southeast Asia would have an empty highway for them to drive in on, no matter what time of day.   Should have been wall-to-wall traffic on their way into Lowtown.

 

[Check Sanity]

4 hours ago, RedElf said:

Same with the Flagsmashers and the thugs in Madripoor.

All of the diversity makes sense. During the blip people came together and created new alliances (as mentioned in the first episode by War Machine and later by the Flagsmashers of what it was like). People went where they could try to thrive, and certain minded types from all over would have been interested or already been in Madripoor's lifestyle. 

Even the commercial being diverse makes sense because this was a worldwide (universe wide) changing event. Even with that commercial seems like it was aimed at an American audience, it's not surprising it'd be made to be diverse. Especially if politicians in America in this story are trying to force the American exceptionalism thing, part of that is it's mixed population. 

3 hours ago, Kromm said:

They're pretending otherwise for some reason. And by "they" I mean the MCU.  It's bizarre. I mean I get that you can't get the actor to be available... but still. 

I will say that in universe, everyone OTHER than The Avengers and Bucky might think he's dead.  Maybe. 

43 minutes ago, Starry-Eyed said:

It genuinely confuses me. Is it possible that Old Man Steve died off-screen shortly after Endgame?

I figured it's likely they're going with pretending Steve is dead. Though it is possible he's died by now. Though as we saw with Isaiah, the strength is there, and considering Steve's serum type, it's not like he'd die from being sick. 

3 hours ago, Cerulean said:

Well, we know that it’s been at least six months of storage plus whatever time it took to gather and store those supplies in a warehouse. 

I don't think that's what that meant. It's been a few months since people came back, but I think the line just meant the goods they had was six months worth that people could live off of. I am wondering about why it was being stockpiled though. 
 

 

I was surprised they weren't paying closer attention to Zemo around Nagel considering Zemo's history with the old Winter Soldier program.

For sure Zemo had to have noticed that he was on Bucky's other list. Them working together can't last long, I was surprised to see it seems like it lasted through this episode to make it to the next. Also, wouldn't Bucky be on Zemo's list? Plus now Zemo knows about Isaiah which isn't good.

It was certainly made to look to the audience that Sharon killed Selby. However it's likely Selby was shot because she had knowledge about the super soldier serum and spilled some, but not all the info. 

[Jenniferbug]

9 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said:

Might be more fun if she turned out to be the Power Broker.

I wondered this as well. I hope not, because I like Sharon and want her available to show up in future projects but I could see her being Power Broker. 

[Check Sanity]

3 minutes ago, mac123x said:

Wow, what an episode of conveniences bordering on contrivances.

1. Zemo happens to be wealthy and able to fly them where ever they need to go.
2. Zemo knows who to start with in Madripoor despite having spent several years in prison.
3. Sharon happens to be in Madripoor and happens to be in the area to save their asses when things go south.
4. Zemo again happens to have a place to go in Riga.
5. Bucky happens to see the Wakandaball lying on the ground and knows to follow the breadcrumb trail.

Also, no inhabited city in Southeast Asia would have an empty highway for them to drive in on, no matter what time of day.   Should have been wall-to-wall traffic on their way into Lowtown.

 

Zemo made comments that made it clear he still has awareness of things going on outside his cell. The fact that he still has access to staff and those who are loyal to him isn't surprising is it?  Especially with him being a proper Baron, same for him have multiple properties.
What's weird is that all the multiple gov agencies that would probably be tracking his stuff haven't stepped in yet. Except Wakanda now.

Sharon having business in Madripoor was convenient, but even Zemo pointed out they seemed to have a guardian angel. The show wasn't being sly about it.

Bucky is always staring off, but it also makes sense that he's keenly scanning his surroundings (as he was trained to do). Plus he knew someone from Wakanda would show up at some point, he was waiting and looking for their presence. The mention of him being the White Wolf was perhaps not just a throw away callback line last episode.

[VCRTracking]

I loved seeing cynical, bitter Sharon, both as a fan of that version as written by Mark Said and Ed Brubaker in the comics and a fan of Emily Van Camp's Emily Thorne character in REVENGE. 

[Chyromaniac]

9 hours ago, oliverwendell said:

That would be a GREAT swerve. Maybe it's no accident that the episode where we first see her is called Power Broker.

Yeah - I have to believe that, given the fact that they’re deliberately not showing them, the power broker is someone that we’ve seen already.  Sharon is a solid bet- however I can’t shake the suspicion that Walker is being set up to take a massive fall (like getting captured and/or killed by the flag smashers), and that his pal Lemar could be the one to give him the shove.

[mac123x]

15 minutes ago, Check Sanity said:

The fact that he still has access to staff and those who are loyal to him isn't surprising is it?  Especially with him being a proper Baron, same for him have multiple properties.

Given the current status of nobility in Germany and most of eastern Europe (i.e., virtually irrelevant), it is quite surprising that he has loyal staff, money and access to both.

15 minutes ago, Check Sanity said:

What's weird is that all the multiple gov agencies that would probably be tracking his stuff haven't stepped in yet. Except Wakanda now.

Exactly.  He's sitting on a fortune and it hasn't been confiscated to pay for, I dunno, reconstructing the buildings he blew up in Geneva?  

All of the stuff with "Baron" Zemo is such an implausible retcon I'm having a hard time swallowing it.  Even his motivation of hating super-soldiers is a retcon.  His motive in Civil War was to get revenge on the Avengers.  The super soldiers were a means to an end.

Edited April 3, 2021 by mac123x

[MisterGlass]

I feel like this is the first Disney+ show that I've watched that doesn't benefit from weekly episode release.  The episodes do not have individual arcs, and with a narrative this serialized it would be more rewarding see several episodes at once.  It felt like a lot trying to fit Zemo and Sharon into one episode in addition to all the nation hopping.  This series could benefit from a few slow scene types from the spy genre, like sitting in a room for a while watching surveillance footage, or doing analyst things on a computer.

10 hours ago, Gin and Tonic said:

13 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I wish Bucky would have elaborated on the 40s music he likes.  It could be the obvious Big Band groups like Glen Miller or Bucky could have been listening to artists like Woody Guthrie or Billie Holiday.  Missed opportunity here by the writers.

Yes! This is what I mean by feeling like the references were a little generic. It also juxtaposed 40s music against Marvin Gaye and his exploration of the African American experience which was clunky to me because there was plenty of pre-war music that did the same. It wouldn’t be believable to me to have Bucky start discoursing about Strange Fruit (nor would I want to see it) but it did exist.

Yes, this is an era when Frank Sinatra, Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Thelonious Monk, Cab Calloway, and Sister Rosetta Tharpe are all active at some stage of their careers.  And if we think about Bucky being in New York in the 1920s, 30s, and 40s, it was a music epicenter.

[swanpride]

Quote

Even his motivation of hating super-soldiers is a retcon.  His motive in Civil War was to get revenge on the Avengers.  The super soldiers were a means to an end.

That part is actually in line with Civil War. Remember he killed the frozen Supersoldiers specifically because he didn't want more superpowered people running around. So naturally he wouldn't want a program to create more of them to stay around either.

It's really the whole Baron stuff which rubs me the wrong way. Yeah, I know, its from the comics, but the idea that if you are noble you are rich and have trusty staff is such an American one. And frankly, it is hard to believe that his status didn't come up in Civil war just once.

Sharon, well, I'll wait and see but I am pretty sure that there is more to her being in Maripoor than the story she told. For starters, even if that story was true, what exactly was she doing at exactly the place Bucky and Sam went?

[lawrbk]

20 hours ago, Lebanna said:

So Sharon is still Agent Carter undercover, right? That woman with the car seemed official. In that case, good for her that she guilt tripped the boys six ways. They do deserve it. Best that nobody mentions how Steve is now her elderly great-uncle. If she felt hard done by before...

Also, the Carter women still can’t resist ogling a man with his shirt off.

Zemo is such dad-dancing a nerd. What is with that coat? It makes him look like a grandma.

Glad to see Wakanda is back in the mix. 

To be honest, I know that going back to being the Winter Solider undercover was supposed to be really traumatic for Bucky, but all he had to do was smash some people into walls, which is more or less what he does as a day job anyway.

I totally hadn’t clocked that Bucky’s fix-things-list notebook was also Steve’s learn-things-list notebook. That was one of the nicest things in that movie - in many parts of the world, the list shown on screen was different and about your own national or regional post 1945 history. The idea was that he’d just spoken to a tourist from your country and wanted to learn all about your recent history, even if it had nothing to do with the USA. I think that’s noticeable here, Steve was also international, he loved that other places were different, he thought other countries were important too, he went out of his way to learn French. John Walker doesn’t do languages, he has people for that. Don’t you know who he IS?

I seriously almost cried at the notebook bit. I love the mentions of Steve. He must’ve given Bucky the notebook. Maybe during their talk before returning to the past that we’ll never see. But it was lovely. 

my daughter actually loved zemo’s coat. Lol She loves the bringing in of his comics history. The title, the iconic coat and mask, the cars. Bucky looks to be filling much of Steve’s role in the comics as a sometimes ally/sometimes (mostly) adversary to Zemo. But the guys better watch he doesn’t get into their heads. He was Sokovian special forces. He knows psy ops. We’ve seen him use them. (I still chuckle though when I think of his calm ‘Did I?’ when Everett Ross was gloating about him failing at the end of Civil War. Wiped the smirk right off him) His calm demeanor hides the fact this is a very dangerous guy.

we got shirtless Stan and now shirtless Mackie. They’re now even with shirtless Evans. 🙂 (he only bared skin in First Avenger). Nice they’re remembering the ladies (and gentlemen) with the eye candy. Lol

When Bucky was mashing people, I kept remembering Raynor saying he wasn’t allowed to hurt anyone as part of his parole. Between that and if they get busted for breaking out Zemo, they’re definitely courting trouble. 

Yay to Florence Kasumba appearing as Ayo. I knew mentioning the assassination of T’chaka and Wakanda not forgetting it would mean something. Don’t mess with the Dora Milaje. Though probably someone more like Nakia (aWar Dog) would take this on but still. A familiar face! 

I liked hard bitten Sharon though I doubt she’d grow that cynical in two years. (She was snapped for the others) Not with Peggy as an influence. But I loved that she was blunt with the guys but not self pitying. She had, and has, agency. She willingly made her choices because she felt they were right not because she was hung up on Steve or some other stereotypical reason. But she’s paid a much higher price than Sam particularly. (Bucky was a whole different set of circumstances and Steve and Nat are gone.) I’m guessing she wasn’t pardoned because she didn’t participate in the battle against Thanos. Though I believe there’s much, much more there than what meets the eye.

The non-Whedon movies were much better at not making Steve look like an aw shucks 1950s farm boy but I hope the expand on that with Bucky. They grew up dirt poor in Brooklyn (where Steve, if not Bucky was a disabled Catholic child of two Irish immigrants, one of whom raised him as a single mother) in a very socialist era for the largest city in the US and in a very diverse area. It would’ve been great to see Bucky leverage some of that when Sam was giving him grief about Troubleman. Jazz was in full swing (no pun intended) when he and Steve were growing up. Not everyone listed to big band music, not that there’s anything wrong with that. But some of those mentioned upthread were hugely popular at the time.

Love the ‘move your seat up’ callback. I wish Bucky had given a little smirk or Steve’s ‘now why would I do that?’ in return. 

I just wish they wouldn’t conflate the legacy/backstory of the shield and the serum. Steve made the shield. HE is the legacy. The serum is a different and much, much messier history. Red Skull, Isaiah, Bruce banner and the Abomination, the Winter Soldiers (especially the Uber violent ones Zemo killed in Civil War) and likely many more. Especially if they go full Isaiah backstory. We may even see that with Karli. Erskine said it magnifies everything inside you which is why it was vital they not give it to a bully like Hodges. Karli’s actions in this episode may be indicating that—that her desire for fixing things may take increasingly darker turns. Who knows if they’ll go some way like that with Walker as well, if he winds up taking it. They’re tying the shield itself too much to the issues with the serum (it’s uses, results and experiments) IMO. I get why and all especially because it’s an easily identifiable stand in symbol but I still don’t like it. Only Steve carried a shield and it was by happenstance but it became his iconic symbol. If Erskine hadn’t died and they’d created hundreds of super soldiers there would’ve been no shield. They’d just have had regular weapons. 
 

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by lawrbk

[swanpride]

Bucky is in trouble for so much more than that. People were filming the fight and Bucky deliberately acted as if the Winter Soldier had taken over. If the footage gets out, a lot of people will be in a tizzy over this.

 

[Danny Franks]

Okay, the absurd simplicity of Zemo's escape was hilarious. I like it being told in flashback so we don't have to spend half the episode worrying whether it will work.

Zemo letting his dramatic flag fly is fun. This is a character who might wear a pink balaclava and carry a sword around. Of course he's reading Machiavelli, of course he's got a weird, modern take on an old timey outfit. Him forcing Bucky to act like the Winter Soldier is going to come back to bite him. Bucky isn't going to forget that.

I'm all in on getting Thunderbolts Zemo at some point - an arrogant narcissist who wants to do heroic things because they grant him the adulation of the masses.

The reveal that Bucky is using Steve's notebook? Aw, man. And Steve was using it to write down all the things he needed to learn to cope with the 21st century, while Bucky is using it to write down all the people he needs to make amends to was really powerful.

Seeing Madripoor as a hi-tech hive of scum and villainy was fun. And I did a double take when they showed the resettlement camp in Latvia, because I was sure for a second it said "Latveria."

Sam shouting "I can't run in these heels!" was great.

It's nice to see Sharon again, but I can't say I really care much about Emily Van Camp. She just doesn't seem that interesting an actor to me. I get that she's embittered, and right to be so, but of all the people who are responsible, Bucky's not one of them. Taking a shot at him for his patriotism and loyalty to Steve in the 1940s was a bit shitty.

I did like her making short work of those thugs, in ways that started off realistic but quickly became a little ridiculous. I think the speculation that she's working for - or even is - the Power Broker aren't too far off the mark. She's not on the run, she has power and influence in Madripoor.

I really enjoy how still Sebastian Stan is in scenes - not just when he's pretending to be the Winter Soldier, but also the scene in Sharon's apartment where he just sits in the middle of the room, and the other characters all move around him. It's a great way to show both his sense of awkward separation from other people, and his constant state of readiness.

Walker acting like the typical 'meathead US soldier interrogating suspects' was particularly ill-fitting, while wearing a Cap uniform. I appreciated that little glimpse of a non-American showing contempt for him while obliquely showing he did respect Steve.

I really wanted Marvel/Disney to be brave enough to depict a group of anti-nationalist insurgents as flawed heroes rather than villains, but it looks like they aren't prepared to take that step. They'll give the Flag Smashers noble goals, but apparently corrupt and evil methods.

The parallels between Karli and her friends, completely disenfranchised and cut loose, and the real world Gen Z, is stark. The sense that their future has been stolen by the old and powerful, that the system is rigged against them. Maybe someone involved in this show intends it to be a warning of what might happen if the young keep being ignored by the powerful.

[paigow]

How did Bucky get a book delivered to Zemo without it getting inspected? 

[swanpride]

Quote

 I appreciated that little glimpse of a non-American showing contempt for him while obliquely showing he did respect Steve.

It was above all a pretty good portrayal of the current state of relations between the US and Germany. Notable was that he refused to speak englisch even though - as he demonstrated towards the end - he is most like somewhat fluent, like many Germans are.