Predator and Prey: Assault, harassment, and other aggressions in the entertainment industry

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Columbo said:

Do domestic violence laws cover the throwing of objects wherever Depp and Heard were living? Like could Depp be convicted of throwing objects?

It can. It’s really more about the pattern of behavior that makes something domestic violence. They lived in California (I don’t know if that is where the recorded instance happened). This is from the California Courts webpage on domestic violence. 

Quote

The domestic violence laws say “abuse” is:

Physically hurting or trying to hurt someone, intentionally or recklessly;

Sexual assault;

Making someone reasonably afraid that they or someone else are about to be seriously hurt (like threats or promises to harm someone); OR

Behavior like harassing, stalking, threatening, or hitting someone; disturbing someone’s peace; or destroying someone’s personal property.

The physical abuse is not just hitting. Abuse can be kicking, shoving, pushing, pulling hair, throwing things, scaring or following you, or keeping you from freely coming and going. It can even include physical abuse of the family pets.

Also, keep in mind that the abuse in domestic violence does not have to be physical. Abuse can be verbal (spoken), emotional, or psychological. You do not have to be physically hit to be abused. Often, abuse takes many forms, and abusers use a combination of tactics to control and have power over the person being abused. 

Usually most criminal cases are going to involve physical or sexual assault. The nature of a lot of abuse makes it hard to get a conviction. I do know someone who was arrested for domestic violence because the threw a cell phone that hit their spouse during a fight. Johnny is accused of doing exactly that. Amber’s accusations are much worse than just what you see in the video but that alone still does fall into the definition of abuse. It helps to think of domestic violence as terrorizing another person. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Guest

[Zella]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 In my state, threatening to kill yourself in the presence of your partner is also considered domestic violence by the courts.  

I'm glad this is being recognized for what it is. I have a former coworker who is a dear friend who retired a couple of years ago, so she's in her mid to late 60s. We've stayed in touch and used to have dinner together a few times a year. A few years ago, she finally told me that her husband--whom I always suspected was a volatile asshole--does this frequently to her, their kids, and grandson. They apparently have learned to ignore him, but I can't imagine having to deal with that on a regular basis. 

[AgathaC]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

I think that far too many people don’t understand this. The explosion stage of the cycle of violence is often not physical violence and it can be years before the pattern escalates that point. That doesn’t mean the relationship isn’t still abusive.

Exactly. Abusive relationships don’t always involve hitting, kicking, etc. As someone who has experienced an abusive relationship that didn’t reach that point, someone in a rage yelling and breaking things (things that mean something to you) is plenty terrifying. Breaking things is a symbolic thing and is often a precursor to actual physical contact. Though, yeah, it can take years to get there.

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, Columbo said:

Do domestic violence laws cover the throwing of objects wherever Depp and Heard were living? Like could Depp be convicted of throwing objects?

I’m not familiar with the laws of other states, however, in NC there are criminal charges that relate to domestic violence and then there are civil claims in which you allege certain acts, behaviors, comments, etc. in order to get a protective/restraining order to keep the person away, prohibit them from contacting you or you family, stay away from your place of employment, etc.  The civil action is the one that the courts consider things like slamming doors, punching walls, breaking dishes, threatening to kill yourself, etc. as acts of domestic violence. I didn’t make that clear upthread.  Also included, stalking, putting trackers on someone’s car without consent (under certain circumstances).  Some of these things overlap with criminal charges.  

Edited April 22, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[Columbo]

https://www.avclub.com/bill-murray-complaint-aziz-ansari-being-mortal-1848826401

 

I wonder what the inappropriate behaviour was? Must be serious if production was shut down.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Columbo

[BlackberryJam]

Johnny’s testimony is a case study in bad preparation. This man is an actor, who should have the skills to remember lines, portray himself in a particular way, remain in character. But he’s a bumbling mess up there.

It leads more credence to the information from a prior witness that he used an earpiece and was fed lines on set.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Columbo said:

https://www.avclub.com/bill-murray-complaint-aziz-ansari-being-mortal-1848826401

 

I wonder what the inappropriate behaviour was? Must be serious if production was shut down.

I wonder if people are going to actually care this time or if it is going to be ignored like the other times he’s been accused of inappropriate behavior. I see so many people basically saying, “oh no, not Bill Murray” like this is new. 

[SunnyBeBe]

21 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Johnny’s testimony is a case study in bad preparation. This man is an actor, who should have the skills to remember lines, portray himself in a particular way, remain in character. But he’s a bumbling mess up there.

It leads more credence to the information from a prior witness that he used an earpiece and was fed lines on set.

From what I saw, he kept trying to crack jokes. He’d say something trying to be funny, like while he didn’t keep cocaine in the box, it looked like it would be good for that purpose.  And, why not drink liquor at 8:00 a.m…..chuckle….IDK. He was really trying to get people laughing.  I just don’t think comedy fits in with the subject matter.  He must not get that.   Regardless of what he says, though, if the jury admires him, they’ll let it slide.  

[ouinason]

On 4/20/2022 at 9:34 AM, SusanM said:

 I do have to wonder, in the case of marriage/long term relationship, how it is that, apparently, Depp was only violent with one wife and doesn't seem to have behaved that way with the other women in his life.  I don't think I've ever heard of a man who was abusive to one partner and never with another.  If that's actually the case with Depp I think it speaks more to the specific relationship he had with Heard than the idea that predators don't prey on everyone they meet.

This right here. 

My stepfather was universally known as a good guy who could get heated in an argument, but had never hurt a soul.  His ex-wife had nothing but nice things to say about him (she left him for another guy, not because of anything that happened between them) and they stayed in each other's lives for like 20 years due to other family connections.

He yelled a lot when he and my mom got together, but tried to work on it.  There were a couple of incidents that were scary when I was a teen (he threw things in my direction a couple times but not "at me" according to him), but in general things were ok.  Time went by, his temper grew, he threw things more, yelled more.  Never once did he actually hit someone or threaten to until my sister and I were adults and he was pissed off and just grabbed my sister by the throat and slammed her to the ground one day.  It took 15 years for him to get physical.  

There is not some metric for abuse.  You don't ever have to have hit someone before in your LIFE to abuse someone tomorrow.  Not all abusive behavior is ever recognized as such by even the people being abused.  The argument that "he never did it to anyone else" is a false argument because he may have done something, but that person didn't/doesn't consider it abusive even if we would.  It's only THIS relationship that matters.

Though, I'm going with mutually abusive in the Depp/Heard situation, based on how things have played out and what bits of evidence have come out.

[aradia22]

Bananas

[SunnyBeBe]

On 4/20/2022 at 9:34 AM, SusanM said:

 I do have to wonder, in the case of marriage/long term relationship, how it is that, apparently, Depp was only violent with one wife and doesn't seem to have behaved that way with the other women in his life.  I don't think I've ever heard of a man who was abusive to one partner and never with another.  If that's actually the case with Depp I think it speaks more to the specific relationship he had with Heard than the idea that predators don't prey on everyone they meet.

I don’t know about Depp’s other romantic relationships, however, people who thrive on manipulating and controlling their partner use the method that works best.  For some people, negative comments, financial pressure, disapproval, withholding of sex or affection, snide comments, etc, might be used to control them.  The person experiencing this may feel they deserve it or be too embarrassed to ever mention it.  They keep it inside. Or they may have grown up where that behavior is considered normal.  Then, the controller hooks up with a more challenging person.  The normal methods don’t work on them….so, they escalate their behavior.  Shouting and threats may not even work, so they get more violent and intimidating.  The abuser grows outraged that they are not able to gain control over their partner, so their rage is eventually unleashed, especially if their behavior has been exposed.  Their behavior may have changed, but they are still the same cruel, abuser.  

Edited April 22, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[Bastet]

7 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I don’t think some abusers understand that domestic violence isn’t just about hitting, punching, choking, etc.  it also includes throwing objects, breaking items, etc, 

One of the umpteen terrific things about the limited series Maids - which is based on a true story - is the exploration of the main character's waffling feelings about leaving her abusive husband, because he's never hit her -- the act that prompted her to finally take off with their child was him throwing stuff at the wall near her, but he wasn't aiming at her -- and how she'd been indoctrinated to think that wasn't "real" domestic violence.

One of the greatest moments of that is at a DV shelter, when she expresses that sentiment to another resident, whose husband has progressed farther on the abuse spectrum, so the protagonist is dismissing her own experience by comparison, and that woman supports her decision and encourages her to stay away by saying (paraphrasing), "Before they hit you, they hit near you; one of the next times was going to be your head, and you know it, it's why you left."

That needs to be shouted from more media rooftops.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Bastet

[MsTree]

17 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

As far as cancelling, or as someone above said consequences, go if someone does something I find wrong I'm not going to be a fan anymore.  It won't matter to them but it matters to me.  But seeing Louis CK being awarded something after the undisputed gross things he did come to light makes me think people in the entertainment industry care less about consequences.  How anyone can listen to him and not think about what he did astounds me.  I can't look at Bill Cosby or even see his name without thinking rapist.

Let's not compare what Louis CK did with what Cosby did. IMO, Louis CK's actions were rather harmless (physically). He didn't drug women, nor did he rape them. If he pulled out his dick, you walk away. Or you do like Sandra Bernhardt did, laugh at him and it. 

What Cosby did on the other hand is beyond disgusting and unforgiveable, especially to those women who trusted him as a mentor.

[Blergh]

4 hours ago, MsTree said:

Let's not compare what Louis CK did with what Cosby did. IMO, Louis CK's actions were rather harmless (physically). He didn't drug women, nor did he rape them. If he pulled out his dick, you walk away. Or you do like Sandra Bernhardt did, laugh at him and it. 

 

I hope more than one woman opted to have either her husband/father/significant other take him to the nearest parking lot and . .. let's term it   read him the Riot Act about what was unacceptable and inappropriate behavior to those who didn't request much less deserve it or have done the . .. reading of it to him themselves! 

[aradia22]

Quote

One of the umpteen terrific things about the limited series Maids - which is based on a true story - is the exploration of the main character's waffling feelings about leaving her abusive husband, because he's never hit her

Shout out to the movie Waitress, as well. If you're not familiar with the story going in, it might take a while to see all of the abusive behaviors exhibited. And the movie is also reserved in when it does show physical violence. 

I think the more gratuitous depictions of abuse often just parallel a general Hollywood enjoyment of violence, before even getting into the examples of when there weren't protections in place for the actors involved and it crossed into a real abusive environment.

[MaggieG]

My take on Johnny/Amber is that they were two people who brought our the worst in each other and never should have gotten married. I don't believe either is totally innocent and there was mutual abuse going. It's sad because I think Johnny back in the day was very talented and always seemed like nice, lowkey kinda guy. I was obsessed with the first POTC and I remember him being everywhere when that movie came out and he just seemed happy that people loved Jack Sparrow. I also remember the story of him visiting sick kids in the hospital in character as Jack.

10 hours ago, Dani said:

I wonder if people are going to actually care this time or if it is going to be ignored like the other times he’s been accused of inappropriate behavior. I see so many people basically saying, “oh no, not Bill Murray” like this is new. 

I'm also wondering what happened. I know his ex wife made some accusations when they got divorced.

[Macbeth1966]

I remember the stories of Depp trashing hotel rooms in the 90s.  So he was showing violence then.  I am not saying that I see Heard as a victim here.  But still- he had shown violence before.

[Jaded]

18 hours ago, MsTree said:

Let's not compare what Louis CK did with what Cosby did. IMO, Louis CK's actions were rather harmless (physically). He didn't drug women, nor did he rape them. If he pulled out his dick, you walk away. Or you do like Sandra Bernhardt did, laugh at him and it. 

What Cosby did on the other hand is beyond disgusting and unforgiveable, especially to those women who trusted him as a mentor.

There have been rumors that he blocked the exits of hotel rooms. This article which is a good summary mentions Roseanne named Louis CK and said his behavior had been known about for a long time at that point in an interview which was before multiple women came forward publicly. His manager also pressured women into not speaking up which I have no doubt that Louis CK knew about. When Louis CK admitted what he had done he still tried to skew the situations acting like the women wanted it. 

Just because he didn't drug or rape women doesn't mean what he did was harmless. That kind of mindset it what lets people like him keep doing things like he did and why he was allowed to act the way he did for so long.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Jaded

[Irlandesa]

20 hours ago, MsTree said:

Or you do like Sandra Bernhardt did, laugh at him and it. 

I like Sandra but Sandra is a little over a decade older than Louis and has about that much more of a head start career wise than him.

She is/was established and faced little risk in laughing at him.  And from what she has said, I do think he probably said it to her in more of a jokey fashion.  I don't think he actually started masturbating in front of her or blocking her for the same reason she could laugh it off--it'd be riskier to target her since she was established.  He couldn't use his power to keep her quiet or threaten professional repercussions.

So when she says she laughed it off--that's great but dynamics matter. Even though he eventually made more money than her, she was/is a somebody.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Irlandesa

[Hiyo]

People shouldn't have the choice to laugh it off/walk away. You really shouldn't be exposing your genitals to someone unless you are close enough with someone to have that type of relationship...and I think for most people that would be a short, short, short list.

[MsTree]

8 hours ago, Jaded said:

There have been rumors that he blocked the exits of hotel rooms. This article which is a good summary mentions Roseanne named Louis CK and said his behavior had been known about for a long time at that point in an interview which was before multiple women came forward publicly. His manager also pressured women into not speaking up which I have no doubt that Louis CK knew about. When Louis CK admitted what he had done he still tried to skew the situations acting like the women wanted it. 

Just because he didn't drug or rape women doesn't mean what he did was harmless. That kind of mindset it what lets people like him keep doing things like he did and why he was allowed to act the way he did for so long.

I read the entire article. All the women said that CK asked if he could pull out his dick, but didn't force them to watch. And none of them mentioned being locked in a room or held prisoner. Roseanne Barr was the only one who mentioned a locked door...and we all know Barr is admittedly a bit crazy. I take anything she says with a grain of salt.

Regardless, I'm not saying what he did was a loving gesture. All I was saying is "let's not compare CK to Cosby"...because IMO there's no comparison at all. 

[Vermicious Knid]

Quote

I hope more than one woman opted to have either her husband/father/significant other take him to the nearest parking lot and . .. let's term it   read him the Riot Act about what was unacceptable and inappropriate behavior to those who didn't request much less deserve it or have done the . .. reading of it to him themselves! 

And thereby perpetuate the cycle of toxic masculinity and violence.

Bill Murray’s history of on-set misbehavior resurfaces after latest movie is shut down
 

Quote

 

Murray and Chevy Chase famously clashed on Saturday Night Live in 1978 when the latter returned to host. The pair reportedly came to blows in John Belushi’s dressing room as fellow cast members Jane Curtin and Larraine Newman looked on in horror....

Last year, actress P.J. Soles recounted to Yahoo Entertainment that Murray frequently made sexual advances while they filmed the 1981 military comedy Stripes despite the fact that she was married to Dennis Quaid at the time....

Murray butted heads with directors over creative differences on two of his most famous comedies, Scrooged (1988) and Groundhog Day (1993). In 1990, Murray told Roger Ebert that he disagreed with Scrooged director Richard Donner “every single minute of the day,” decrying the filmmaker for rushing production and making Murray repeat lines louder. “He’s superbly creative but occasionally difficult — as difficult as any actor,” Donner said later. Murray fought on the regular with fellow Ghostbuster Harold Ramis when the latter directed Groundhog Day. Murray was “really irrationally mean and unavailable,” Ramis told The New Yorker in 2004....

Dreyfuss’s revelations followed previously reported stories from the set that Murray also bullied the film’s producer, Laura Ziskin, throwing her into a lake after one disagreement. While Ziskin has said the lake toss was “playful,” his other actions were not. “Bill also threatened to throw me across the parking lot and then broke my sunglasses and threw them across the parking lot,” d, ‘Read this [script tweak], I think it’s really funny.’ And he put his face next to me, nose-to-nose. And he screamed at the top of his lungs, ‘Everyone hates you! You are tolerated!’...

Richard’s son Ben Dreyfuss also weighed in Thursday. “Bill Murray had a meltdown during [What About Bob?] because he wanted an extra day off and Laura said no and ripped off her glasses off her face and my dad complained about his behavior and Bill Murray threw an ashtray at him… Everyone walked off the production and flew back to L.A. and it only resumed after Disney hired some bodyguards to physically separate my dad and Bill Murray in between takes....

Last year, Lucy Liu confirmed a story long floating around Hollywood that she got physical with Murray after he insulted her acting abilities. “Some of the language was inexcusable and unacceptable, and I was not going to just sit there and take it. So, yes, I stood up for myself, and I don't regret it,” Liu said on the Los Angeles Times Asian Enough podcast. “I'm not going to sit there and be attacked.”...

Worse than any of his on-set behavior, however, are the allegations made by ex-wife Jennifer Butler. In filing for divorce in 2008, Butler claimed that Murray’s “adultery, addiction to marijuana and alcohol, abusive behavior, physical abuse, sexual addictions and frequent abandonment” led her to move into a separate South Carolina home with their four children in 2006.

Butler accused Murray of physically abusing her on several occasions, including striking her in the face during a confrontation in 2007. Butler’s complaint alleged that Murray told her that she “was lucky he didn’t kill her.” She also charged that Murray repeatedly “left threatening voice messages on the home telephone which the minor children have heard.”

Butler was eventually granted primary custody of the children.

 

 

[Zella]

From what I've read, the Chevy Chase fight was generally agreed by the rest of the cast/those present as Chase being the instigator upon his return because he was notorious as king of the assholes. That being said, I think there are ample enough instances of Murray behaving badly/belligerently for the most recent allegations not to be a surprise. 

[janie jones]

You know how Bill Murray like shows up at house parties uninvited and washes the dishes and then leaves, and weird shit like that? And everyone is like "Oh that Bill Murray, he's so kooky." But the thing is, that's not appropriate behavior. It's weird stuff, but he gets away with it because he's kooky Bill Murray. I feel like if I met him, I'd think he was a creepy weirdo.

[bluegirl147]

1 hour ago, janie jones said:

You know how Bill Murray like shows up at house parties uninvited and washes the dishes and then leaves, and weird shit like that? And everyone is like "Oh that Bill Murray, he's so kooky." But the thing is, that's not appropriate behavior. It's weird stuff, but he gets away with it because he's kooky Bill Murray. I feel like if I met him, I'd think he was a creepy weirdo.

If he wasn't Bill Murray he would not just be a creepy weirdo.  He would most likely be arrested for trespassing.  What is that saying?  Rich people are eccentric and poor people are crazy?

[Columbo]

The whole Murray thing is so fascinating to me because all the reports about his awful behaviour towards people he's worked with and the domestic violence towards his ex-wife has been well known for ages. It wasn't like it was some kind of secret where his actions would be reported as "difficult" or him being "tired".

 

I feel that Bill Murray's greatest role, or really his only role, has been playing the cynical eccentric asshole in the public eye. So anytime he does or says something that should be concerning it's swept under the carpet because the public have been trained to view him a certain way due to his movie roles and all the articles about him that gush about how eccentric he is.

 

[FancyRhubarb]

On 4/25/2022 at 8:50 AM, janie jones said:

You know how Bill Murray like shows up at house parties uninvited and washes the dishes and then leaves, and weird shit like that? And everyone is like "Oh that Bill Murray, he's so kooky." But the thing is, that's not appropriate behavior. It's weird stuff, but he gets away with it because he's kooky Bill Murray. I feel like if I met him, I'd think he was a creepy weirdo.

I read a story years ago about him accidentally hitting a woman's head with a golf ball while he was playing. He did the right thing initially by coming over, calling the paramedics and staying with her but then started tickling her stomach while they waited. The woman didn't seem to mind or at least played it off when she was interviewed but if some random non celeb person tried that they'd be arrested. If someone did that to me after I sustained a concussion I'd be creeped out and furious.

[SunnyBeBe]

Interesting perspective on Depp trial…..funny, I brought up the issues around here last week.

 

https://pagesix.com/2022/04/25/howard-stern-johnny-depp-is-overacting-in-amber-heard-trial/

 

 

[Columbo]

From what I understand of Stern, twenty years ago he would have totally supported Depp and viciously insulted Heard under the guise of comedy.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Columbo said:

From what I understand of Stern, twenty years ago he would have totally supported Depp and viciously insulted Heard under the guise of comedy.

While Howard Stern has said many a vicious thing about female celebrities, Johnny Depp's thin skin is always going to win over insulting Amber.  Howard is intimately aware of the lines he cannot cross per his legal department, and Johnny's lawsuit against The Sun is going to bother someone like Stern.  Stern has said worse things about multiple celebrities than a tabloid calling Johnny a wife beater.   Johnny has proven he cannot take a joke, and that is why Stern is weighing in.  

[seasons]

Ugh this lawsuit Depp vs Heard.

 

Regardless of the circumstances, I can't imagine having personal texts and conversations played for the world to hear. I know that she recorded stuff, maybe he did too, but just wow. And then to have my psychologist divulge her findings on my mental diagnoses? Just awful. Every and any person who ever worked for you, etc. Ugh.

Amber is a mom now. She has a baby girl, maybe a year or so, with a mystery dad and supposedly via surrogate. What a mess.

Edited April 26, 2022 by seasons

[Columbo]

10 minutes ago, seasons said:

Ugh this lawsuit Depp vs Heard.

 

Regardless of the circumstances, I can't imagine having personal texts and conversations played for the world to hear. I know that she recorded stuff, maybe he did too, but just wow. And then to have my psychologist divulge her findings on my mental diagnoses? Just awful. Every and any person who ever worked for you, etc. Ugh.

Amber is a mom now. She has a baby girl, maybe a year or so, with a mystery dad and supposedly via surrogate. What a mess.

That poor baby girl having a sociopath for a mother. 

[seasons]

God, who is this goofy looking guy sitting to Depp's right at the table? He seems to just sit there looking goofy imo and drinking water.

Watching recaps on Court tv. 

 

This older lady lawyer for Amber irritates me. Like how dare anyone object her questions Yuk.

[SunnyBeBe]

I don’t know if the person who testified that Heard has Borderline Personality Disorder is correct (the witness looked disheveled and spacey), but even if she does, it doesn’t preclude her being a victim of domestic violence.  I didn’t hear that anyone testified she was a sociopath.  I am encouraged by the fact that Heard eventually did separate from Depp and has tried to voice encouragement for other victims of domestic violence to seek help.  Often, people in the situation don’t realize what it is. That’s why they may cry out and beg the abuser to not leave.  They may even believe they are causing the abuse and blame themselves. But, then  to also have professionals, attorneys and Depp fans still hold onto that archaic philosophy must be difficult.  It takes years to regain your confidence.  I hope she can hang in there.  

[Columbo]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I don’t know if the person who testified that Heard has Borderline Personality Disorder is correct (the witness looked disheveled and spacey), but even if she does, it doesn’t preclude her being a victim of domestic violence.  I didn’t hear that anyone testified she was a sociopath.  I am encouraged by the fact that Heard eventually did separate from Depp and has tried to voice encouragement for other victims of domestic violence to seek help.  Often, people in the situation don’t realize what it is. That’s why they may cry out and beg the abuser to not leave.  They may even believe they are causing the abuse and blame themselves. But, then  to also have professionals, attorneys and Depp fans still hold onto that archaic philosophy must be difficult.  It takes years to regain your confidence.  I hope she can hang in there.  

Heard has been manipulating the system for a long time and using her gender to hide behind her awful behaviour. Unfortunately no matter what Depp does there will always be people who will believe Amber because she's a woman and they'll project their own experiences on to her.

[FilmTVGeek80]

On 4/25/2022 at 10:36 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

Stern has said worse things about multiple celebrities than a tabloid calling Johnny a wife beater.   Johnny has proven he cannot take a joke, and that is why Stern is weighing in.  

Calling someone a wife beater is not a joke. I think Depp has shown that he can take a joke, just not about something that has, you know, ruined his life.

 

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I don’t know if the person who testified that Heard has Borderline Personality Disorder is correct (the witness looked disheveled and spacey), but even if she does, it doesn’t preclude her being a victim of domestic violence.  I didn’t hear that anyone testified she was a sociopath.  I am encouraged by the fact that Heard eventually did separate from Depp and has tried to voice encouragement for other victims of domestic violence to seek help.  Often, people in the situation don’t realize what it is. That’s why they may cry out and beg the abuser to not leave.  They may even believe they are causing the abuse and blame themselves. But, then  to also have professionals, attorneys and Depp fans still hold onto that archaic philosophy must be difficult.  It takes years to regain your confidence.  I hope she can hang in there.  

The witness did not appear spacey at all to me. She seemed to have it together and didn't let AH's lame attorney rattle her. Like, seriously, was the attorney struggling with her diet - she had some weird prolonged fascination with muffins. I loved when Dr. Curry was like "can we stop talking about muffins and can I just clear this up?" Amber's lawyers have a horrible habit of trying to steamroll over the defendants, especially when they're saying things they don't like. But, anyway, I don't believe the doctor said that someone with borderline personality disorder couldn't be a victim of violence. She was giving her diagnosis, including that Amber didn't have PTSD as she claimed. Dr. Curry specifically says that just because she didn't have PTSD didn't mean she couldn't have possibly been through abuse, but that she found that Amber was grossly exaggerating symptoms of PTSD. 

Given some of the recordings, I don't believe Amber wasn't aware of what abuse is and she definitely didn't blame herself - not Miss "God, I only slapped you, stop being such a baby" Heard. Amber's hung on for years selling herself as some innocent victim and domestic violence expert. Amber strikes me as a master manipulator. Someone posted this documentary that had these seemingly ubiquitous recordings Amber made. This was one from the time JD alluded to in his testimony where he said the last time he saw Amber was when AMBER broke the restraining order and came to his hotel. Why she was recording it, I'm not sure. Maybe she thought she could goad him into a fight. She shows up to his hotel, and even after all the accusations she throws at him, the first thing she wants is a hug. Depp, is of course, not at all interested and tells her to leave several times. Before she does, she actually asks to sleep in his bed. I think Dr. Curry's assessment of her was bang on correct. I just don't understand why Amber submitted to it knowing the doctor was paid for by Depp's team. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, seasons said:

And then to have my psychologist divulge her findings on my mental diagnoses?

That wasn’t her psychologist. That was an expert hired by Depp. She spent some time with Heard and studied records and that is what her testimony is based on. One thing that bothers me about most court cases is that both sides can find an expert willing to support their version. Maybe this particular expert is legitimate but realistically they were going to come to a similar conclusion before they ever even spoke to Heard. It’s why she was chosen. 

Every single bit of this trial that I come across just makes me feel uncomfortable. No one looks good. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Guest

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

To me it’s even worse because that wasn’t her psychologist. That was an expert hired by Depp. She spent some time with Heard and studied records and that is what her testimony is based on.

Don't forget she also was wined and dined by Depp and Depp's team for five hours before meeting with Heard. 

4 hours ago, Columbo said:

Heard has been manipulating the system for a long time and using her gender to hide behind her awful behaviour. Unfortunately no matter what Depp does there will always be people who will believe Amber because she's a woman and they'll project their own experiences on to her.

It's interesting you should say no matter what Depp does because it's actually Depp's actions that are influencing my opinion on him/the situation more than anything Amber has done lately. 

It feels like he's using the courts to harass and intimidate her.   The first case he lost and lost the appeal.  The second one he selects a venue with an open court that is stacked with members of his rabid fan base there to laugh at what he says and boo Amber when she leaves the courtroom.  That shit is directly out of an abuser's playbook. Yeah, people might feel for Amber but his PR game is so much stronger and he gets to use the trial to try and restore his reputation even if he loses the case.

And it's crazy to me because even taking away the abuse allegations, I'm stunned at the misogyny that pours out of his texts and emails.  Not just over Amber but about his ex-wife or a sex worker he hired who hadn't even showed up yet.  Or the lies on the stand about not having substance abuse problems that are eventually contradicted by emails, texts and even testimony from his witnesses.  He might be dragging Amber through the mud but he also looks terrible. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Irlandesa

[Columbo]

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Don't forget she also was wined and dined by Depp and Depp's team for five hours before meeting with Heard. 

It's interesting you should say no matter what Depp does because it's actually Depp's actions that are influencing my opinion on him/the situation more than anything Amber has done lately. 

It feels like he's using the courts to harass and intimidate her.   The first case he lost and lost the appeal.  The second one he selects a venue with an open court that is stacked with members of his rabid fan base there to laugh at what he says and boo Amber when she leaves the courtroom.  That shit is directly out of an abuser's playbook. Yeah, people might feel for Amber but his PR game is so much stronger and he gets to use the trial to try and restore his reputation even if he loses the case.

And it's crazy to me because even taking away the abuse allegations, I'm stunned at the misogyny that pours out of his texts and emails.  Not just over Amber but about his ex-wife or a sex worker he hired who hadn't even showed up yet.  Or the lies on the stand about not having substance abuse problems that are eventually contradicted by emails, texts and even testimony from his witnesses.  He might be dragging Amber through the mud but he also looks terrible. 

He's using to court to fruitlessly restore his shattered reputation manipulated by Amber.

[peachmangosteen]

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Don't forget she also was wined and dined by Depp and Depp's team for five hours before meeting with Heard. 

It's interesting you should say no matter what Depp does because it's actually Depp's actions that are influencing my opinion on him/the situation more than anything Amber has done lately. 

It feels like he's using the courts to harass and intimidate her.   The first case he lost and lost the appeal.  The second one he selects a venue with an open court that is stacked with members of his rabid fan base there to laugh at what he says and boo Amber when she leaves the courtroom.  That shit is directly out of an abuser's playbook. Yeah, people might feel for Amber but his PR game is so much stronger and he gets to use the trial to try and restore his reputation even if he loses the case.

And it's crazy to me because even taking away the abuse allegations, I'm stunned at the misogyny that pours out of his texts and emails.  Not just over Amber but about his ex-wife or a sex worker he hired who hadn't even showed up yet.  Or the lies on the stand about not having substance abuse problems that are eventually contradicted by emails, texts and even testimony from his witnesses.  He might be dragging Amber through the mud but he also looks terrible. 

This this this. I was on the 'they both suck' train but my goodness Johnny Depp is ruining himself with this trial. I don't understand how he has some kind of propaganda machine to get him all the 'poor baby' tweets on twitter. And even with that he's claiming he's been 'ruined' by this whole thing lol.

[supposebly]

Well, he certainly has ruined himself in my eyes with all this. I do think AH is certifiable, manipulative, and frankly scary IMO, and I am not of the opinion that a victim of abuse must be a virginal flower themselves.

I just find that JD started shooting himself in the foot career wise ever since the first Pirates movie. Since then he's made a lot of bad movies. If he thinks that he didn't have a decent career before, he's delusional. I have seen every movie he made between 1990 and 2004 and some of them are among my absolute all-time favourite movies. The ridiculous level of money and fame he gained with Pirates obviously didn't do this man any favours and he was not very stable to begin with. Amber Heard was just a symptom of this compounded by a boring and cliched midlife crisis. I'm sad to hear about all this, I'm not really watching because he's been a train wreck for quite a while. 

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

This this this. I was on the 'they both suck' train but my goodness Johnny Depp is ruining himself with this trial. I don't understand how he has some kind of propaganda machine to get him all the 'poor baby' tweets on twitter. And even with that he's claiming he's been 'ruined' by this whole thing lol.

Yes. The blinders that I see people on social media having to only zoom in on anything said about Amber and completely ignoring everything problematic of Johnny is disturbing to me. And this is his defense against being abusive. This is the best case scenario that they can present. When her side starts I can’t even imagine how brutal it is going to be. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Guest

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

This this this. I was on the 'they both suck' train but my goodness Johnny Depp is ruining himself with this trial. I don't understand how he has some kind of propaganda machine to get him all the 'poor baby' tweets on twitter. And even with that he's claiming he's been 'ruined' by this whole thing lol.

The propaganda machine on Twitter is something to behold.  I want to stay away from all the tweets with the hashtag I refuse to type out, but something with this case has tripped the algorithm and I cannot avoid it.  I keep on getting suggested tweets that are for some reason all pro-Johnny.  

[JustHereForFood]

It's not just Twitter, I checked in mild curiosity what the opinion is on one news website (with otherwise somewhat reasonable people in comments) and on youtube and everywhere it seems to be very pro-Johnny. Suddenly, it seems people don't need to question whether there even was any abuse, or whether he might have provoked it himself, like they often do with female victims. 

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

It's not just Twitter, I checked in mild curiosity what the opinion is on one news website (with otherwise somewhat reasonable people in comments) and on youtube and everywhere it seems to be very pro-Johnny. Suddenly, it seems people don't need to question whether there even was any abuse, or whether he might have provoked it himself, like they often do with female victims. 

I honestly have only seen one reasonable comments section on the internet about this case.  I will refrain from naming it, lest his bots and stans find it and destroy.  The thing that bothers me is those bots and stans taking over other areas on the internet. I know there is a pro-Johnny army on Reddit, and they worm themselves into completely unrelated subreddits to bitch about Amber.  I have also seen them infest the comments on various Tik-Toks that again have nothing to do about this case.  I don't know what it is about this case in particular that has brought all of these people (and bots) to the comments section to cry foul at Amber Heard for existing.    

[JustHereForFood]

6 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I honestly have only seen one reasonable comments section on the internet about this case.  I will refrain from naming it, lest his bots and stans find it and destroy.  The thing that bothers me is those bots and stans taking over other areas on the internet. I know there is a pro-Johnny army on Reddit, and they worm themselves into completely unrelated subreddits to bitch about Amber.  I have also seen them infest the comments on various Tik-Toks that again have nothing to do about this case.  I don't know what it is about this case in particular that has brought all of these people (and bots) to the comments section to cry foul at Amber Heard for existing.    

I wonder if that is because if there is a proof of one famous man who got abused by his wife, it will somehow negate all claims of statistically many more women who get abused, because "both sexes can be abusive", or something along those lines.

[FilmTVGeek80]

Quote

 

8 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

This this this. I was on the 'they both suck' train but my goodness Johnny Depp is ruining himself with this trial. I don't understand how he has some kind of propaganda machine to get him all the 'poor baby' tweets on twitter. And even with that he's claiming he's been 'ruined' by this whole thing lol.

Yes, it must be propaganda if people are actually weighing the evidence and believe she's the abuser. Just because he has supporters online doesn't mean his life hasn't been ruined by this.

7 hours ago, Dani said:

Yes. The blinders that I see people on social media having to only zoom in on anything said about Amber and completely ignoring everything problematic of Johnny is disturbing to me. And this is his defense against being abusive. This is the best case scenario that they can present. When her side starts I can’t even imagine how brutal it is going to be. 

But I'm sure the blinders from Amber defenders doesn't bother you at all? I think his side has actually presented a good case. I think her whole case is going to be the same old, same old recordings and Amber trying to portray herself as a poor abused woman.

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I honestly have only seen one reasonable comments section on the internet about this case.  I will refrain from naming it, lest his bots and stans find it and destroy.  The thing that bothers me is those bots and stans taking over other areas on the internet. I know there is a pro-Johnny army on Reddit, and they worm themselves into completely unrelated subreddits to bitch about Amber.  I have also seen them infest the comments on various Tik-Toks that again have nothing to do about this case.  I don't know what it is about this case in particular that has brought all of these people (and bots) to the comments section to cry foul at Amber Heard for existing.    

I love the whole "people are supporting Johnny, it must be bots" argument. There was an actual study done about that and most of the bots are Amber defenders. They're not crying foul at Amber Heard for existing but for being an abusive narcissistic liar.

Quote

I wonder if that is because if there is a proof of one famous man who got abused by his wife, it will somehow negate all claims of statistically many more women who get abused, because "both sexes can be abusive", or something along those lines.

There's already proof in this case of a famous man being abused. It is not about trying to negate anything. 

Quote

It feels like he's using the courts to harass and intimidate her.   The first case he lost and lost the appeal.  The second one he selects a venue with an open court that is stacked with members of his rabid fan base there to laugh at what he says and boo Amber when she leaves the courtroom.  That shit is directly out of an abuser's playbook. Yeah, people might feel for Amber but his PR game is so much stronger and he gets to use the trial to try and restore his reputation even if he loses the case.

He's using the courts to get some justice. And, first of all, the first case wasn't even against her. It was against a UK tabloid. He selected the venue? He selected the state to file in based on where the paper she chose to post her op-ed comes from. He didn't ask his "rabid fanbase" to come. No one is stopping any of her fans from coming. She did have one friend there with her (some "journalist" - I put journalist in quotes because she claims she's a journalist, but Amber's lawyers tried to argue she isn't) but she got kicked out and barred from court for breaking the rules.

Given all the damage she has done over the years and gotten away with, if it took this case, to finally open some eyes, I'm glad of that. I think it's pretty disgusting and disturbing that, despite plenty of evidence of Amber's abuse, most of the mainstream media refused to touch anything that might paint her in a bad light and actually do their job without bias. Suddenly, because of this case some of them now want to act brand new. "OMG, you guys, there's a tape of Amber admitting to abuse." Yeah, and you knew about it for years and refused to report on it.

You know what else is out of an abuser's playbook? Gaslighting (I didn't hit you, Johnny, and even if I did it wasn't that bad and don't be such a whiny baby about it.) Also, following your victim relentlessly the many, many times they try and get away from you including after you get a restraining order.

Edited April 27, 2022 by FilmTVGeek80

[ouinason]

I'm still on the "they are both terrible and were terrible to each other" train.  Nothing either of them has said/done to try and mitigate their own awfulness has rung true.

But I respect the opinions and the right to voice them of others.  Being hateful to each other online doesn't affect either of these people and it's just screams into a hurricane at this point.  

[peachmangosteen]

7 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The propaganda machine on Twitter is something to behold.  I want to stay away from all the tweets with the hashtag I refuse to type out, but something with this case has tripped the algorithm and I cannot avoid it.  I keep on getting suggested tweets that are for some reason all pro-Johnny.  

It’s insane! I’ve never mentioned either of their names or anything about this situation on Twitter nor have I ever sought out any hashtags related to either of them and yet I get promoted shit about ‘Free Johnny’ or ‘Amber is the devil’ or whatever the hell it is all the time! That’s why it feels like paid for propaganda or something to me. It’s so bizarre.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

But I'm sure the blinders from Amber defenders doesn't bother you at all? 

You’re sure of that?

Actually is would bother me but I haven’t seen anyone saying that Amber is completely innocent in months. Mostly I see people painting Johnny as an innocent victim or that they are both awful people. I am posting my issues with Johnny because the case at hand is if he abused her. I am not a supporter of Amber. She’s awful.

One thing that bothers me is that I haven’t seen anyone who supports Johnny address the abusive things he’s done that are proven. The things that he has admitted to doing like the texts or the video of him throwing things. I also haven’t seen them address what role Johnny’s alcoholism and anger issues plays. 

To me, what he admitted to alone is an abusive relationship. If someone I knew was in a relationship with a person who did only the things that Johnny or his legal team admits to, I would be deeply concerned about their safety. That is why I can’t see him as a victim in all of this. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Guest