Predator and Prey: Assault, harassment, and other aggressions in the entertainment industry

[Blergh]

Not that the victims don't deserve to have justice and the alleged perps don't deserve to have the book thrown at them, but,  with all the rituals and secrecy re this Cloak and Dagger, it sure sounds as though there would have been   few if any means to not get dragged  down into a nightmare via just going there. 

[biakbiak]

9 hours ago, Blergh said:

Not that the victims don't deserve to have justice and the alleged perps don't deserve to have the book thrown at them, but,  with all the rituals and secrecy re this Cloak and Dagger, it sure sounds as though there would have been   few if any means to not get dragged  down into a nightmare via just going there. 

Robert Evans wrote a book and participated in a documentary that is quoted all the time when talking about Hollywood and his role in it. He at the very least is quoted ad nauseam that there are three sides to every story “his/hers and the truth” so let her tell her side.

Edited March 22, 2021 by biakbiak

[Blergh]

7 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Robert Evans wrote a book and participated in a documentary that is quoted all the time when talking about Hollywood and his role in it. He at the very least is quoted ad nauseam that there are three sides to every story “his/hers and the truth” so let her tell her side.

Did I miss that the late Mr Evans had anything to do with the Cloak and Dagger club (which the post you quoted  me on  was about) ?

In any case, I don't disagree that any women who might have had encounters with Mr. Evans should tell their stories and folks need to listen to all sides rather than  automatically dismiss any of them merely because they don't want to hear   .. whatever  about someone they like or dislike. 

[Robert Lynch]

Bhad Bhabie was just 13 when Dr. Phil send her to a Troubled Teen Ranch and here's her story

Not surprised. 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Robert Lynch

[UYI]

In a new interview with Marlow Stern of the Daily Beast, Sean Young talks about her long career, and the harassment and blacklisting she claims she faced/got from Hollywood, and more specifically from a select few, very high-profile male directors. (Mods, feel free to delete or move this somewhere else if this doesn't quite meet the criteria posted in the original thread; I can see how this might thread the line a bit.)

https://www.thedailybeast.com/sean-young-on-surviving-hollywoods-many-toxic-men?ref=wrap

Edited March 23, 2021 by UYI

[Vermicious Knid]

Thomas Middleditch's Silicon Valley costar Alice Wetterlund says “I Tried To Warn You All”.

[kieyra]

7 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

Thomas Middleditch's Silicon Valley costar Alice Wetterlund says “I Tried To Warn You All”.

I hate that I keep coming up on the devil's advocacy side of apparent perv Middleditch, but the article doesn't really explain how Wetterlund (loved her char on SV by the way) 'tried to warn' anyone about Middleditch. She definitely called out TJ Miller, and accused the rest of the cast (without naming anyone) of enabling Miller's being a dickhead, but otherwise the only past commentary the article mentions from her is something about Middleditch being engaged in an open relationship. 

Quote

Sunday was not the first time Middleditch found himself caught up in controversy, nor did it mark Wetterlund’s first time calling him out. In a 2019 interview with Playboy, Middleditch discussed the “swinger” lifestyle he participated in with his then-wife Mollie Gates.

“Only after I got married was I like, ‘Mollie, I’m sorry, but we have to get nontraditional here,'” the actor said. “Personally, [fame] is one of the trickier elements of it all, because Mollie doesn’t get that and yet she has to witness it.”

Said Wetterlund, “The shocker here for me was that he HAS female fans?!?”

The bolded by me part seems to be the sum of "I tried to warn you". 

I mean, but also fuck Middleditch for bait-and-switching his wife into that setup. That's enough for me to be over him.

I was already over TJ Miller. 
 

12 hours ago, UYI said:

In a new interview with Marlow Stern of the Daily Beast, Sean Young talks about her long career, and the harassment and blacklisting she claims she faced/got from Hollywood, and more specifically from a select few, very high-profile male directors. (Mods, feel free to delete or move this somewhere else if this doesn't quite meet the criteria posted in the original thread; I can see how this might thread the line a bit.)

I'm old enough to remember when Sean Young first got labelled as 'difficult' by Hollywood, and was quite outspoken about it. It was pretty obvious she got blacklisted for it. 

[Hiyo]

Good for Sean Young for surviving everything she did, though I wouldn't say she was blacklisted entirely, as she continued working steadily since the 1980s. Maybe blacklisted from A-list projects that she could have worked on?

I do wish she got into more details about Steven Spielberg canceling Megan Fox...

Also, the stuff about Barbra Streisand was disappointing...

Quote

This term wasn’t really acknowledged back then, but it sounds like gaslighting to me.

Definitely. I remember, I had an audition with Barbra Streisand for The Mirror Has Two Faces. I’m at her place up in Malibu and she’s grilling me about Warren Beatty. And I go, “What is your point? I’m not sure where this conversation is going,” and she goes, “I think it’s disgusting that you spoke to the press.” I said, “Wait a minute—you think it’s disgusting that I talked about a guy harassing me at work, and you think it’s worse than him harassing me?” She said, “Well, I was with Warren a long time ago.” And I thought, “Am I the only actress that hasn’t fucked Warren Beatty?” I just remember being stunned.

She and Sharon Stone really need to get together and tear down all those assholes in Hollywood, men and women.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Hiyo

[ifionlyknew]

46 minutes ago, kieyra said:

I mean, but also fuck Middleditch for bait-and-switching his wife into that setup. That's enough for me to be over him.

When the Playboy article came out and he talked about their open relationship and swinging a lot of people thought his wife was not really willing participant in that.

47 minutes ago, kieyra said:

'm old enough to remember when Sean Young first got labelled as 'difficult' by Hollywood, and was quite outspoken about it. It was pretty obvious she got blacklisted for it. 

I'm old enough too.  I remember when the movie Wall Street was coming out and knew Sean Young was going to be part of the cast and then saw the movie and she was barely in it.  And now after reading that interview I know it's because Oliver Stone was an asshole. And then the whole James Woods things was just crazy. Sad that so many people believed she was the problem.  

39 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Also, the stuff about Barbra Streisand was disappointing...

It's disappointing but not surprising.  I mean look at how many people continued to support Woody Allen.

41 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

She and Sharon Stone really need to get together and tear down all those assholes in Hollywood, men and women.

There are plenty of people in Hollywood (and everywhere for that matter) who don't like strong women. And what is really sad is a lot of those people are women.

[kieyra]

13 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

When the Playboy article came out and he talked about their open relationship and swinging a lot of people thought his wife was not really willing participant in that.

I completely missed this 2019 stuff, but I was adamantly checked out of all news for quite a while until about Feb/March 2020 (for obvious and sundry reasons). It sucks that Silicon Valley sucked behind the scenes. I knew TJ Miller was an asshole and a lunatic (fake bomb threat, anyone?), but none of the rest of it. 

Here's hoping Martin Starr is a human being, but I suppose that might be naive ... 

[Vermicious Knid]

All the articles pretty much titled that story that Alice Wetterlund 'tried to warn people', so...more confirmation they were all slimy in one way or another on the show I guess.

That Streisand anecdote, sad to say, seems typical of that generation of women. Remember Catherine Deneuve speaking against the MeToo movement? While I remembered Sean Young being on trial for harassing James Wood I forgot she actually won. And of course we know what a disgusting excuse for a human being James Woods really is now. I've also known for years Oliver Stone was an ass. In Strange Days: My Life With and Without Jim Morrison by Patricia Kennealy -his unofficial wife- she details being on set for The Doors movie as an advisor and playing the small role of the priestess who married them. She describes both Stone and Val Kilmer in scathing terms. I've forgotten the exact details but It's why I believe all the stories about both of them.

 

[Macbeth]

On 3/23/2021 at 7:53 PM, UYI said:

In a new interview with Marlow Stern of the Daily Beast, Sean Young talks about her long career, and the harassment and blacklisting she claims she faced/got from Hollywood, and more specifically from a select few, very high-profile male directors. (Mods, feel free to delete or move this somewhere else if this doesn't quite meet the criteria posted in the original thread; I can see how this might thread the line a bit.)

https://www.thedailybeast.com/sean-young-on-surviving-hollywoods-many-toxic-men?ref=wrap

I feel like Sean Young has had to deal with some serious mental health issues over the years.  She's had quite the struggle.  God knows her experiences did not help her.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Macbeth

[janie jones]

On 3/19/2021 at 5:53 PM, Kromm said:

At least the first instance, knowing it was during her early fame, and a questionable actor was referenced, I think we can take some pretty good guesses over who the costar (and by inferance, which producer) she meant. 

***

As her career exploded, Stone was able to include actor approval in her contract, meaning she gets a say in who will co-star with her.

“No one cared,” she writes. “They cast who they wanted. To my dismay, sometimes. To the detriment of the picture, sometimes.”

The Emmy and Golden Globe winner shares a story when a male producer — who she has not named — asked her to have sex with a co-star.

She writes, in part, that the male producer “explained to me why I should fuck my co-star so that we could have onscreen chemistry. Why, in his day, he made love to Ava Gardner onscreen and it was so sensational! Now just the creepy thought of him in the same room with Ava Gardner gave me pause. Then I realized that she also had to put up with him and pretend that he was in any way interesting.”

Stone recalls thinking, “‘You guys insisted on this actor when he couldn’t get one whole scene out in the test…Now you think if I fuck him, he will become a fine actor?’ Nobody’s that good in bed.”

“I felt they could have just hired a co-star with talent, someone who could deliver a scene and remember his lines. I also felt they could fuck him themselves and leave me out of it,” she writes. “It was my job to act and I said so. This was not a popular response. I was considered difficult.”

Stone says she had similar experiences numerous times with other producers, who could come to her trailer to ask, “So, are you going to fuck him, or aren’t you? … You know it would go better if you did.”

***

She qualified as "famous" since Total Recall (1990) but probably means AFTER Basic Instinct, which was 1992.  Her very next film was the now forgotten "Silver". 

I think she's talking about that film for a few reasons. It was an erotic thriller which only BARELY missed an NC17 rating.  And the costar we could all imagine her NOT wanting to actually have sex with was the creepy William Baldwin.  Who's acting I can definitely see being called into question (but he was slighty warm careerwise at that point, because of "Backdraft"). 

The producer makes even more sense. The even creepier Robert Evans. 

Robert Evans was a former actor. Who co-starred in The Sun Also Rises... with Ava Gardner. Who Stone name checked in talking about the Producer. 

Although Evans was likely lying about Gardner, if the implication is that he slept with her offscreen. She supposedly hated his guts. 

Whoever the actor was, I'd be curious to hear this from his point of view. Was it "Take this role and Sharon Stone will have sex with you"? Was it "I bet she'll have sex with you"? Was he also feeling uncomfortably pressured to have sex with her? Did he have no awareness of what was going on?

[Vermicious Knid]

‘All Rise’ Creator/EP Greg Spottiswood Fired By Warner Bros. TV Over Misconduct Allegations. But it took two investigations, after a writers walkout in season 1 resulted in a finding that “did not reveal conduct that would warrant removing Spottiswood,”

Quote

But, according to sources, the climate in the (now virtual) writers room did not improve in Season 2, and some writers were reportedly offended by remarks Spottiswood allegedly made that were perceived as insensitive, especially for the writers of color. Complaints about Spottiswood’s behavior led to a new investigation by Warner Bros. TV, which resulted in his dismissal.

He was also dropped by his Agency.

[Trini]

7 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

‘All Rise’ Creator/EP Greg Spottiswood Fired By Warner Bros. TV Over Misconduct Allegations. But it took two investigations, after a writers walkout in season 1 resulted in a finding that “did not reveal conduct that would warrant removing Spottiswood,”

He was also dropped by his Agency.

I'm guessing the difference the second time was that Zoom calls can be recorded.

[GaT]

7 hours ago, Trini said:

I'm guessing the difference the second time was that Zoom calls can be recorded.

It was probably worse after he got investigated & they basically said he didn't do anything wrong, he had nothing to restrain him at that point.

[biakbiak]

4 hours ago, GaT said:

It was probably worse after he got investigated & they basically said he didn't do anything wrong, he had nothing to restrain him at that point.

Time and time again “internal investigations” that are announced but whose findings are never released even to the accusing party other than “we can’t corroborate your accusation,” emboldens perpetrators and silences future victims. 

 

[BetterButter]

 

[Vermicious Knid]

New charges for Ghislaine Maxwell

[Robert Lynch]

Ex-girlfriend of Chet Hanks granted temporary protective order against actor

Edited April 1, 2021 by Robert Lynch

[kieyra]

30 minutes ago, Robert Lynch said:

Ex-girlfriend of Chet Hanks granted temporary protective order against actor

Oof. I had never heard of this Hanks. But he has the kind of smirk you expect to see in an arrest mugshot.

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, kieyra said:

Oof. I had never heard of this Hanks. But he has the kind of smirk you expect to see in an arrest mugshot.

Be blessed. Hopefully this will stop his “white boy summer” nonsense. As my BFF had previously inquired after some of Chester’s  previous nonsense “So Tom Hanks is the father of Goofus* and Gallant?”
* not talking about these specific allegations but his entire persona.

Edited April 1, 2021 by biakbiak

[Hiyo]

Hana Kimura death: Man charged over cyberbullying of Japanese reality TV star.

Quote

Fans of star, a professional wrestler, decry court fine of £59 as ‘too lenient’ punishment for cyberbully.

A Japanese man who sent hateful online messages to a professional wrestler who later killed herself has been charged but is not to face trial.

Police told AFP that the man, who has not been identified, was charged with cyberbullying Hana Kimura, who was also a TV reality show star. She died in May 2020. A Tokyo court issued an order to fine the man 9,000 yen (£59).

Before her death, Kimura received a barrage of hateful messages from hundreds of accounts. Police told AFP that the man charged on Tuesday sent insulting messages to Kimura’s social media accounts, including the lines “You have such an awful personality, is your life worth living?” and “Hey, hey. When will you die?”

FYI, the £59 is about $81.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Hiyo

[Kromm]

12 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Hana Kimura death: Man charged over cyberbullying of Japanese reality TV star.

FYI, the £59 is about $81.

On the face of it, this sounds awful.  But we really need to know more about the difference between this man's messages and the hundreds of others the article describes that same person getting.  Is he the only one who seemed to suggest suicide? 

[Hiyo]

The article says his messages were particularly malicious, so I’m assuming yes there was a difference between his messages and those of others.

[Danny Franks]

I would say that any kind of conviction for cyberbullying, particularly of the nature that Hana Kimura suffered, should be punished with (in part) a ban from social media. Even from the internet.

Hard to enforce? Maybe. But just preventing the person from having any contract with an ISP or phone company that allows for online access would be fitting, given what they apparently use that access for.

[Kromm]

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

I would say that any kind of conviction for cyberbullying, particularly of the nature that Hana Kimura suffered, should be punished with (in part) a ban from social media. Even from the internet.

Hard to enforce? Maybe. But just preventing the person from having any contract with an ISP or phone company that allows for online access would be fitting, given what they apparently use that access for.

These days people rely on online access for paying bills.  In a Pandemic, for food, paying taxes, license renewals and registrations, and too many other things. 

Cutting someone off from it might be akin to removing a basic survival tool. So I question it on that basis. 

Although if the point is really to stop social media access, I'd someone's that stubborn, they'll find another way (probably a phone with prepaid access). 

As always, hitting the pocketbook is probably the most effective way.  Although the flipside is if local courts start seeing enforcement and fines as revenue generators, like they (often excessively) do with parking and traffic tickets. 

[Trini]

I think this can go here; TVLine highlighted a quote from this profile of Krista Vernoff at THR:

Quote

Once Vernoff settled in Los Angeles, one gig led to another, and, before she knew it, she had written three seasons of Charmed and the studio was offering to double her salary to do a fourth. But her father had just died, at 56, which sent Vernoff spiraling — and to the horror of her rep, she rebuffed the offer. "I signed on because Charmed was a girl-power show, and about halfway through there was an episode where Alyssa Milano comes out in mermaid pasties and there was a huge spike in male viewership, and then every episode after, the question would come from the network, 'How are we getting the girls naked this week?' " she says, insisting there were no attempts at subtlety. "And they were throwing money at me, and the number keeps going up, and there's all this pressure, and all I can think is, 'I'm creating something that's now bad for the world, and I've had enough bad for the world in my life.' "

However, she clarified on twitter:

 

 

I was never into Charmed, but I know there were other things going on BTS as well.

[Vermicious Knid]

Infuencer James Charles semi-cops to sexting minors, apologizes for making people “uncomfortable” with his actions. He seems to be claiming they lied about their ages but they say he knew they were minors. So far he's lost a hosting gig for a YouTube reality show.

[merylinkid]

Here;s a simple solution -- Don't sext strangers.   Then you don't have to worry about their ages.  

[Stats Queen]

12 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Here;s a simple solution -- Don't sext strangers.   Then you don't have to worry about their ages.  

Just don’t sext at all is my advice.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Stats Queen

[methodwriter85]

You would have thought that James Charles would have learned to be more careful after the hot water he got into when he got accused of being predatory towards straight guys, but I guess not. 

[catlover79]

Can you imagine if social media had been around back in the 1930s? Obviously, we'll never know everything since the main people are gone. Still, I was fascinated by this account of Loretta Young, Clark Gable and their daughter, Judy.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/annehelenpetersen/loretta-young

[Blergh]

36 minutes ago, catlover79 said:

Can you imagine if social media had been around back in the 1930s? Obviously, we'll never know everything since the main people are gone. Still, I was fascinated by this account of Loretta Young, Clark Gable and their daughter, Judy.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/annehelenpetersen/loretta-young

Ah. but they kept Miss Lewis's actual parentage a BIG secret for many decades with Mr. Gable never commenting and Miss Young only doing so in a book she had published after her own death. Miss Lewis didn't get told until she was in her teens and it took some detective work on her part to work out how Miss Young had pulled off concealing the pregnancy then giving birth to her before having her whisked off to an orphanage before Miss Young 'adopted' her two years later.  BTW, they kept her tell-tale  Gable ears under bonnets and hats the first part of Miss Lewis's life until she got traumatized seeing Dumbo and asked her alleged adoptive mother to get them fixed which Miss Young happily did when the girl was just seven years old. 

It was only after Miss Lewis's own death that her younger brother revealed that Miss Young herself claimed the conception was NOT consensual on her part but all agreed not to share that with Miss Lewis   during her lifetime. 

[catlover79]

I would hate to think that Ms. Young's son and daughter-in-law would have fabricated this, but it is interesting to note that the article was written pre-#metoo. They weren't jumping on that "bandwagon", as it were.

[Zella]

From what I read, it was after seeing something on date rape in her old age and talking about what that was with them that Loretta Young told them that was what happened to her with Clark Gable, but she didn't have the terminology to articulate it before then. And she apparently felt like it was her fault because she had flirted with him, so she had massive amounts of guilt over it. I think the story is true, and I have always felt very sorry for Loretta Young. I think one of the reasons they spoke out is a lot of times Loretta Young was presented as a massive hypocrite and a lunatic for being religious and having a baby out of wedlock and then going to such steps to hide it, and they were trying to correct that but waited until her daughter was dead because Loretta Young had very strong feelings about not traumatizing her with that information, even after Young herself finally understood what had happened. 

Edited to add: I think her own daughter unwittingly confirmed it in her memoir. Judy was always clueless about what actually happened between her parents, and she blamed her mother as the bad guy. When she confronted Young about being her daughter, Loretta Young actually ran from the room and vomited. I think Judy interpreted it as proof of her mom's deception, but I think it was more likely evidence of how much the situation had traumatized her and that she had no way to talk about it and now her kid was blaming her when it was not at all what her daughter assumed. 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Zella

[BlackberryJam]

5 hours ago, Zella said:

From what I read, it was after seeing something on date rape in her old age and talking about what that was with them that Loretta Young told them that was what happened to her with Clark Gable, but she didn't have the terminology to articulate it before then. And she apparently felt like it was her fault because she had flirted with him, so she had massive amounts of guilt over it. I think the story is true, and I have always felt very sorry for Loretta Young. I think one of the reasons they spoke out is a lot of times Loretta Young was presented as a massive hypocrite and a lunatic for being religious and having a baby out of wedlock and then going to such steps to hide it, and they were trying to correct that but waited until her daughter was dead because Loretta Young had very strong feelings about not traumatizing her with that information, even after Young herself finally understood what had happened. 

Edited to add: I think her own daughter unwittingly confirmed it in her memoir. Judy was always clueless about what actually happened between her parents, and she blamed her mother as the bad guy. When she confronted Young about being her daughter, Loretta Young actually ran from the room and vomited. I think Judy interpreted it as proof of her mom's deception, but I think it was more likely evidence of how much the situation had traumatized her and that she had no way to talk about it and now her kid was blaming her when it was not at all what her daughter assumed. 

I’m in no way excusing Gable here, but even in the 80s the question to a raped woman was always, “Why didn’t you fight harder? Did you really say No out loud or did just expect him to read your mind?”

This was a problem for not just women, but men as well, because they were taught a warped version of consent. Men need educated from an early age about the need for clear consent. 

[Blergh]

At least Miss Young didn't have the horrible fate of the rising starlet  Virginia Rappe (yes, that was her actual name) who died at age 26  from a ruptured bladder and peritonitus four days after having attended a party in a hotel with the then-famous silent movie rotund comedian Roscoe 'Fatty' Arbuckle in 1921. Mr. Arbuckle wound up being acquitted after three  rather widely publicized manslaughter trials but  his onscreen career was over and he would die at age 46 in 1933. To this day, there is fierce debate among historians re his possibly having contributed to her death but I can't help but think that had this happened a century later, he'd have been less likely to have been acquitted inasmuch as she unquestionably HAD had something to have happened to her in his presence that resulted in the ruptured bladder. 

[Zella]

37 minutes ago, Blergh said:

At least Miss Young didn't have the horrible fate of the rising starlet  Virginia Rappe (yes, that was her actual name) who died at age 26  from a ruptured bladder and peritonitus four days after having attended a party in a hotel with the then-famous silent movie rotund comedian Roscoe 'Fatty' Arbuckle in 1921. Mr. Arbuckle wound up being acquitted after three  rather widely publicized manslaughter trials but  his onscreen career was over and he would die at age 46 in 1933. To this day, there is fierce debate among historians re his possibly having contributed to her death but I can't help but think that had this happened a century later, he'd have been less likely to have been acquitted inasmuch as she unquestionably HAD had something to have happened to her in his presence that resulted in the ruptured bladder. 

I always thought that, too, but I was reading some stuff recently that said it was really an injustice for him to be tried. The person who accused him was the victim's friend, who had a history of extortion. Other witnesses said Rappe collapsed at the party from medical issues. The doctor who examined her found no evidence of rape and Rappe herself never claimed that herself in the days between her collapse and her death though she was apparently able to communicate, so it was all based on the testimony of one extremely sketchy third party and endlessly promoted in Hearst's papers because it sold copies.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Zella

[Zella]

50 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

I’m in no way excusing Gable here, but even in the 80s the question to a raped woman was always, “Why didn’t you fight harder? Did you really say No out loud or did just expect him to read your mind?”

This was a problem for not just women, but men as well, because they were taught a warped version of consent. Men need educated from an early age about the need for clear consent. 

I didn't get the impression she actually blamed Gable, weirdly enough, even after she had a term for what happened. She seemed to just feel guilty herself and that burdened lifted once she had a name for what had happened. I agree that consent is something everyone needs to learn.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Zella

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Blergh said:

At least Miss Young didn't have the horrible fate of the rising starlet  Virginia Rappe (yes, that was her actual name) who died at age 26  from a ruptured bladder and peritonitus four days after having attended a party in a hotel with the then-famous silent movie rotund comedian Roscoe 'Fatty' Arbuckle in 1921.

I understand your point but am really uncomfortable with the sentiment that a victim is fortunate that she didn’t have it as bad as another potential victim. That’s very similar to language used to minimize certain crimes. 

 

6 hours ago, Zella said:

Edited to add: I think her own daughter unwittingly confirmed it in her memoir. Judy was always clueless about what actually happened between her parents, and she blamed her mother as the bad guy. When she confronted Young about being her daughter, Loretta Young actually ran from the room and vomited. I think Judy interpreted it as proof of her mom's deception, but I think it was more likely evidence of how much the situation had traumatized her and that she had no way to talk about it and now her kid was blaming her when it was not at all what her daughter assumed. 

It’s such a horribly sad story for both women. Judy has a lot of valid reasons for her resentment and the way she interpreted her mother’s reaction and Loretta didn’t have the resources or knowledge to process her trauma. 

[Zella]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

Judy has a lot of valid reasons for her resentment and the way she interpreted her mother’s reaction and Loretta didn’t have the resources or knowledge to process her trauma.

Yes, I didn't mean for my comment to sound as harsh toward Judy as I realize in retrospect that it does. I definitely understand why she was angry at her mother because of how she assumed things went. I'm sure she did feel stigmatized in the family, and she shouldn't have had to experience that any more than her mother shouldn't have had to experience what she did. It's a shame that they couldn't have a conversation about what actually happened after her mother was able to define it, but I also can see why her mother felt like it was better to just leave it alone.

[Blergh]

I was not in any way attempting to belittle or denigrate the late Miss Young's evident experience or resulting trauma. However, I DO think that the fate of living to 87, becoming the matriarch of a three-generation family, getting married thrice (the last one a happy union) and having had a successful career for many decades IS a better fate  than Miss Rappe had at - of dying at age 26 , four days after her bladder ruptured! 

 

BTW, Miss Young was SO intent to try to keep her secret of being Miss Young's bio mother that when her own mother Gladys Royal Young Belzer died at age 96 in 1984, Mrs. Belzer left a bequest to 'my granddaughter, Judy Lewis' , Miss Young actually had the wording of the legal document changed to 'my adoptive granddaughter, Judy Lewis'. Doing so, despite the fact that Miss Lewis by this point a 50-year-old mother  and that , by altering a legal document with a known falsehood, Miss Young essentially had the executor commit perjury. 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Blergh

[bobalina]

18 hours ago, Blergh said:

At least Miss Young didn't have the horrible fate of the rising starlet  Virginia Rappe (yes, that was her actual name) who died at age 26  from a ruptured bladder and peritonitus four days after having attended a party in a hotel with the then-famous silent movie rotund comedian Roscoe 'Fatty' Arbuckle in 1921. Mr. Arbuckle wound up being acquitted after three  rather widely publicized manslaughter trials but  his onscreen career was over and he would die at age 46 in 1933. To this day, there is fierce debate among historians re his possibly having contributed to her death but I can't help but think that had this happened a century later, he'd have been less likely to have been acquitted inasmuch as she unquestionably HAD had something to have happened to her in his presence that resulted in the ruptured bladder. 

Rappe had an abortion days before the party in SF. It was damage from that that killed her and Arbuckle lost his career because of a lie.

[WinnieWinkle]

9 hours ago, Blergh said:

Doing so, despite the fact that Miss Lewis by this point a 50-year-old mother (and, I believe, by this point, she had herself had become a grandmother)  and that , by altering a legal document with a known falsehood, Miss Young essentially had the executor commit perjury. 

Technically though it wasn't a lie as Miss Young did adopt her daughter.

[praeceptrix]

8 minutes ago, bobalina said:

Rappe had an abortion days before the party in SF. It was damage from that that killed her and Arbuckle lost his career because of a lie.

Do you have a citation for the abortion?

From the little I know, there were many rumors about Rappe, but nothing conclusive. Her wikipedia entry says that the autopsy proved that the rumor of Ms. Rappe having had a child in 1918 was false, but given the source (an article in the Sausalito News quoting the District Attorney prosecuting Arbuckle) I am not sure how trustworthy it is without seeing the actual autopsy report. The Arbuckle entry states that the autopsy showed that she had never had a child or an abortion, but doesn't provide a citation.

It's clear that the media had a field day (and made lots of money selling papers) publishing nasty stories about both Rappe and Arbuckle, but not much in the way of verifiable facts. 

[Blergh]

30 minutes ago, WinnieWinkle said:

Technically though it wasn't a lie as Miss Young did adopt her daughter.

NO she did not but, as far as I can tell, she pretended to when Miss Lewis was about two! Granted this was far more of a public statement than altering her own mother's bequest in the will nearly a half-century later, but it WAS a misleading statement if not a baldfaced lie! Can you cite any evidence that Miss Young actually legally adopted Miss Lewis at a time when it wasn't legal for single,unmarried adults to adopt children in  the state of California? Let's not forget that her contemporary Joan Crawford would  adopt her children by having the adoptions take place in other states! 

[CrazyInAlabama]

I found it ridiculous that Loretta Young denied to the end that Clark Gable was her daughter's father.      I don't believe it was coerced either, and I think it was an affair.    Ms. Young would do anything to preserve her image as the good Catholic girl, and never stopped.      Who would even think that people would believe a single woman adopting a child in that era?     She twisted every story to make herself look good, and who Judy's father actually was, is no secret.   I knew people that went to school with her, and virtually everyone knew, except Judy.     

Sadly, Judy Lewis died in 2011 of cancer.    

Her relatives didn't claim Gable raped Young, until after both Ms. Young, and Judy Lewis were dead.    I see the claim as another way to preserve Ms. Young's image. 

Edited April 4, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[callie lee 29]

11 minutes ago, Blergh said:

NO she did not but, as far as I can tell, she pretended to when Miss Lewis was about two! Granted this was far more of a public statement than altering her own mother's bequest in the will nearly a half-century later, but it WAS a misleading statement if not a baldfaced lie! Can you cite any evidence that Miss Young actually legally adopted Miss Lewis at a time when it wasn't legal for single,unmarried adults to adopt children in  the state of California? Let's not forget that her contemporary Joan Crawford would  adopt her children by having the adoptions take place in other states! 

Am I the only one who wonders what happened to the four year old who acted as cover for the "adoption"?

[Zella]

1 hour ago, callie lee 29 said:

Am I the only one who wonders what happened to the four year old who acted as cover for the "adoption"?

After a period of time, it was claimed that her relatives were found, so she went to live with them. I don't know if that was true, if she was sent to another family she was not related to who adopted her, or if she just went back to the orphanage.