S02.E01: What Happened to Kate Kane?

[Trini]

Kate's friends and family hold on to hope that Kate may still be found, a homeless 25-year-old named Ryan Wilder (Javicia Leslie) stumbles upon Kate's Batsuit. Focused on no longer being a victim, Ryan takes the suit to use as armor and goes rogue in the streets of Gotham, taking out various members of a new gang called the False Face Society. Meanwhile, both Jacob Kane and Luke Fox launch searches for Kate, Mary Hamilton grapples with losing yet another family member, Sophie Moore struggles with things left unsaid to her first love, and Alice is furious that someone got to Kate before she could exact her revenge. At the same time, "Bruce Wayne" (guest star Warren Christie) returns under the pretense of searching for Kate, but the truth is he wants his suit back and it becomes the clash of imposters as "Batwoman" and "Bruce" square off in the action-packed season premiere.

Holly Dale directed the episode written by Caroline Dries.

Airdate: 1/17/2021

Edited January 15, 2021 by Trini

[AnimeMania]

Careful Luke, you are close to getting "#MeToo"ed.

[Jediknight]

Kate's not actually dead.  Calling it now that Safiyah abducted her.  They can't just kill her off like that.

Javicia did a good job.  One episode in and I'm liking Ryan.

Was glad that they didn't waste any time in wrapping up the Tommy as Bruce storyline.  And that there was a legit explanation for Luke not noticing.  He thinks his best friend is dead, and that it's his fault.  He wasn't thinking clearly.

If we're gonna get more focus on Luke and Mary this season, I won't complain.

[scarynikki12]

I love our new Batwoman.

Kryptonite didn’t kill Ryan but does seem to be poisoning her. Intriguing.

My girl Mary came right around by episode’s end even while she grieves.

I love Alice wearing black while pretending she’s not in mourning. And spilling the beans on Kate! Maybe Jacob will make the Crows allies to Ryan when she officially takes over as a roundabout way of making it up to Kate?

The “Bruce” story was done in record time but it makes sense due to Ruby leaving. The impact lessens with Kate gone so best to wrap it up. We did get the Batmobile though!

That was Sophie doing the voiceover at the end right?

[mtlchick]

Well they made quick work of the dangling plot lines; Jacob and Sophie finally finds out that Kate is/was the Bat and Tommy was figured out pretty quick by Julia.  Ryan wasn’t bad, and I am interested to find out what happens now that she has been infected with kryptonite. That said...we are being asked A LOT to sort of pretend a lot of the first season doesn’t matter any more. 
 

whether or not Kate is dead, I really do wonder if production misses Ruby Rose or sort of relieved she’s no longer there. 

[cambridgeguy]

It sure sounds like Luke knows Kara is Supergirl  - maybe call her and ask her to help search?

And apparently the fuss about the kryptonite was pointless since the suit still seemed to do a pretty good job of minimizing the damage from the shot. 

[Primal Slayer]

It was a decent premiere.

 

So Kates private plane crashes with Kate nowhere to be found. Was she abducted by an alien? Someone from Apokolips? Ended up on a different earth? Hopefully its exciting enough. I seriously thought that when the plane was crashing that it was a flashback to Supergirl and thats how we'd be introduced to Ryan.

Ryan, herself was a good character. I like her well enough, still think introducing someone brand new was unnecessary but she's here and I dont mind her so thats good. They certainly pulled out all stops into giving Ryan a tragic backstory. Not sure why Alice's gang would squat in a random apartment that could be rented out at any time but....at least it ties Ryan to Alice which is good. Javacia is A LOT better in acting than Ruby was during her 20 episodes so thats always a good thing.

 

They really spent all of 1 min with whatshisname fooling people into that Bruce Wayne was back. Talk about wasted storyline potential. It was literally useless, he was dealt with within 1 episode and the status quo is back to normal. The Prince of Gotham is back in the city and everyone is just like "oh. hey." and then he'll disappear again with everyone going about their day.

Julia now having the most connection to "Bruce" makes her a lot more interesting even if it was wrapped up so quickly. Still wondering what happened to everyone Batman fought/had connected to. Is there no Bat family?

Alice continues to be the best part of the show, her outting Kate to their dad was a great scene.

[Pepper the Cat]

I’m confused.

I thought Kryptonite was only dangerous to people from Krypton. Ie Supergirl, Superman. 
so what was the point in shooting Batwoman with it??

Edited January 18, 2021 by Pepper the Cat
Batwoman not Batgirl!

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, Pepper the Cat said:

I’m confused.

I thought Kryptonite was only dangerous to people from Krypton. Ie Supergirl, Superman. 
so what was the point in shooting Batwoman with it??

Not only is it radioactive but it also can pierce through basically any material as well. Nth metal probably wouldve made more sense but...gotta tie into Supergirl.

[cambridgeguy]

2 minutes ago, Pepper the Cat said:

I thought Kryptonite was only dangerous to people from Krypton. Ie Supergirl, Superman. 
so what was the point in shooting Batwoman with it??

It's supposed to be the only substance capable of penetrating the Batsuit.  I mean, it's not like you can just aim for the bottom half of her face, so the only option is to track down what's likely the rarest substance on Earth.

[mtlchick]

3 minutes ago, Pepper the Cat said:

I’m confused.

I thought Kryptonite was only dangerous to people from Krypton. Ie Supergirl, Superman. 
so what was the point in shooting Batgirl with it??

I can’t remember the details (because it’s been months!) but I think kryptonite was the only thing on earth that could pierce the suit. So it looks like it doesn’t necessarily blow the suit wide open as opposed to a tiny nick but still creates enough damage underneath.  Sort of like a bulletproof vest; it will protect you but it doesn’t mean you won’t get bruised up either.

[sonyab]

I can't watch this show. It's painful now. I can't get past Alice killing her brother. 😭 And then Alice had to lay next to him at the end. 😭

[scarynikki12]

10 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

It sure sounds like Luke knows Kara is Supergirl  - maybe call her and ask her to help search?

And apparently the fuss about the kryptonite was pointless since the suit still seemed to do a pretty good job of minimizing the damage from the shot. 

My guess is we were supposed to see Alice's plan play out and Jacob shoot Kate with the cliffhanger be if she lives or dies but then pandemic and Ruby quitting changed it all.

[TiffanyNichelle]

I guess I'll stick around and see where the season goes. I think the storyline most impacted by Ruby's leaving was Tommy's with how quickly everyone figured him out and he was gone by the end of the season. Shame, I would liked to see more fake Bruce. It was awesome seeing a Batmobile again.

Ryan was fine but the big number speech in the tunnels was cringeworthy. I could have done without it. I do like that she has a connection to Alice. BTW Alice's original plan for having Jacob shoot Kate? Pretty good. But her destroying him with the truth that Kate was Batwoman the whole time he was railing against Batwoman was also pretty good revenge.

ETA I hope that after an episode or two we can skip ahead a few months so that Ryan is settled into the role of Batwoman. We just did Batwoman Year One, do we have to watch it be learned all over again?

Edited January 18, 2021 by TiffanyNichelle

[bmoore4026]

OK, I am liking this new Batwoman.  I like her character.  I like her backstory.  I like how her backstory ties to Alice.  I'm all in for good old fashioned revenge. 

I also liked that we only had to suffer Hush/Tommy Elliot for one episode.  I would have found it intolerable if we had to put up with him the whole season.  Did he die?  I would like to see the actor who played him come back as the real Bruce Wayne, maybe in a flashback or something.

Beth telling her father that Kate was Batwoman and that she (more than likely) died thinking her father hated her was delicious.  Just the look on Dougray Scott's face as he's hearing this and then Alice taking the gun from him with no effort.  So good.

I also loved Ryan telling Luke and Mary the statistics of not just her life, but of African American women in this country. 

I hope this show can go on to a third season with Javicia Leslie.  I hope she'll be able to keep up with the physical demands because Batwoman means a lot to people. 

[Jediknight]

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

It sure sounds like Luke knows Kara is Supergirl  - maybe call her and ask her to help search?

And apparently the fuss about the kryptonite was pointless since the suit still seemed to do a pretty good job of minimizing the damage from the shot. 

I'd like to think that Kate introduced Luke to Kara.  They were BFFs, so it would make sense for Kate to introduce Kara to her team.

My guess is that it's not real kryptonite, but synthetic.  Or it might be the piece that Kate brought from another Earth, so it's not as harmful.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

Is there no Bat family?

Well, fake Batman did say that "Robin laid an egg". Is that canon now?

[tennisgurl]

Tune in next week, Different Batwoman, Same Batwoman Channel! 

So this is our new Batwoman huh? I admit that I have been really curious about how the show would be dealing with transitioning to this new Batwoman, and...it could have been worse I suppose. I still am not totally sure if this was really the right choice for how to handle the exit of RR, creating a totally new character instead of recasting Kate, giving it an in-universe explanation or just casting a new actress, or using an already established female character from the Batman mythos, but I do really like Javicia Leslie and thought she was quite good here, so I we will just have to see how it goes long term. Plus, its not like the Arrowverse has never made up characters before, and many of them have worked out great. Its not the worst way to deal with the situation I guess. So Kate is definitely not dead, which I am happy about, but now I guess her disappearance will be part of the arc for the season. This whole thing has really messed the show up, no matter how much I could grow to like Ryan Wilder, it just wont have the same punch without Kate. So much of the show was based so much around Kate herself and her relationship with her dad, with her ex Sophie, her sister Mary and her twin/arch nemesis Alice, these very complex interpersonal relationships with tons of history, so now it just wont be the same. They did give her a personal reason to hate Alice, which at least raises her personal stakes in a You Killed My Mother kind of way, but the intense personal dynamics will all be really different, especially with everyone getting to know Ryan while also looking for/mourning Kate. 

 I cant lie, Ryan Wilder still sounds like the kind of name you put in your fake ID to sneak into a bar in high school, but this was a pretty good introduction to her character. She seems quite likable, has a lot of struggles and room to grow, and Javicia Leslie is a really good actress who is already giving a great performance, showing a lot of vulnerability but also a lot of toughness. I will say though, a lot of interviews with people behind the scenes were really emphasizing how unique of a character Ryan is and how special and different and stuff, and while I do like Ryan so far, her actual backstory and characterization aren't exactly super unique. She has a bit of a chip on her shoulder! She has a dark past! She doesent think she can be a hero! She even has a Dead Mom for her to angst over and avenge! Oh yeah, never seen a protagonist with a dead parent they get all angsty over, never in a million years! I mean, that's the backstory of almost every main character in the Arrowverse actually, including Kate's. Not that those are bad things in a character, but I think I am going to need to get to know her personality better before I really decide how I feel about her. The tunnel speech was probably necessary, if very on the nose in a meta kind of way, the way this show often cam be. Mary and Luke had to be the "you cant be Batwoman your just some rando!" segment of the audience, while Ryan had to basically announce herself as the new Batwoman, while also luckily knowing a ton of stats about unsolved murders and the childbirth related deaths of black women. You could almost see her starring at the camera itself saying the whole speech. 

With the new Batwoman, its kind of hard to focus on anything else, but I am both glad that we are moving past Fake Bruce quickly before he wore out his welcome, as well as kind of annoyed that after so much build up he was taken out so quickly. I guess I cant blame them, they have enough going on now with whatever is happening with Alice and the villain who is probably actually behind Kate's disappearance, everything looking for Kate, and introducing new Batwoman, but its feels weird that he got taken out so quickly. He was fun while he lasted at least. 

Alice in her funeral garb was hilarious, while her talking with Mouse's corpse was just really creepy. I felt really bad for everyone, its clear that Kate's disappearance and possible death has terribly hurt them all, especially Luke. Poor guy feels so guilty, no wonder he so easily bought the obvious bullshit from Not Bruce. He just so badly wanted a reason to think they could find Kate. I am happy that we might get more Mary and Luke as a team this season, which I always enjoy. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

There was a lot to like in this premiere.

I think I'm happy with Ryan overall as a character and am interested in a Bat- character who is a poor person of color rather than fabulously wealthy and white. I don't know if they will explore that angle thoughtfully or if it will be just virtue signaling or what. 

I feel like Ryan was warmer and more interesting in this debut than Kate was all season put together. The numbers thing has to be put to the side, because that was the most awkward, no-actual-human-would-ever-say-this dialogue I can remember. It makes me want to echo language of anti-SJW fanboys, and I don't want to be in that place.

I kind of wish that they didn't make it so that Ryan has a vendetta against Alice. Can't just the fact that Alice is a serial killing psychopath be enough to get her to cross paths?

The plan to have Tommy Elliott go undercover as Bruce Wayne seems crazy (which may be the point I guess that both Alice and Tommy are BSC). Like seriously, how was Tommy going to fool Kate for a half-second when she knows Bruce more, would not be able to be bluffed so easily and when Kate knows that Alice has been having someone mimic people? I can buy Luke wasn't exactly in his right mind because of concern about Kate but still.... Also, wouldn't Real!Bruce have a contingency plan for shapeshifters and whatnot?

Are we to assume that Tommy-as-Bruce told Jacob about Alice's whereabouts on Alice's directions? She didn't seem at all surprised to have him show up. Or is she just able to roll with things pretty well?

Going forward I am hoping for a couple things:

1. An answer to where exactly is Batman and why has he been gone from Gotham for four years?

2. No romance or unrequited feelings between Ryan and any of the regulars.

 

 

[Lantern7]

We're back . . . just in time for Kate Kane to vanish and for another woman with a problem-riddled past get into her suit. For her first major battle, I give Ryan high marks . . . though she was a touch overenthusiastic about caving in Tommy Elliot's false face. In her defense, he did try to murder her while driving the Batmobile. That would drive anyone past their breaking point.

This is going to be an interesting season from all angles. With Supergirl and Black Lightning slated to wrap up this year, I'm thinking that the Arrowverse (or whatever dumb name the CW is using these days) might be in its final stage. Ruby Rose leaving the show when most everything was tied into her character increases the degree of difficulty. Alice is Kate's twin, one who was presumed dead, secretly abducted, driven insane, and might be one of the best villains of the Arrowverse . . . and her feud with Kate was personal. Having the Wonderland gang killed Ryan's adopted mother isn't a huge stretch in terms of tying Alice to Ryan, but I'm confident Rachel Skarsten willl continue to hit the right notes. Alice getting frustrated about Kate's presumed death and her spilling the beans to her father about Kate was in-character and well done.

Also in-character: Luke Fox continuing to give away secrets. In his defense, no one really expects a madman to show up looking and sounding like Bruce Wayne. And you can't blame him and Mary for calling Kate's name, not imagining for a minute that someone else could be wearing the suit. Luke is still a putz, though.

I'm wondering if Tommy was going to be the nemesis this season before Ruby bailed. Having someone impersonate Bruce Wayne was fun, and it looks like Bruce has a solid reputation as a hedonistic billionaire. Didn't Jacob basically wonder if Belize was out of cocaine because of Bruce? But Tommy got too greedy, tried to snag the Batsuit, and he wound up resembling Clayface after heavy drinking. The bit with the casual hooker murder was funny. Does that say anything bad about me?

Good luck, Javicia. You got a lot riding on your shoulders. If the first episode is a prime indication, I'm sure she'll do fine.

ETA: I'm really, really, REALLY hoping contact with Kryptonite doesn't give Ryan special powers. Been there/done that with Smallville. Also, I'm still curious why a bullet had to be made of Kryptonite to pierce the suit. Is it somehow build from the DNA of Clark and/or Kara?

Edited January 18, 2021 by Lantern7

[128survivor]

Who sent Alice the paper airplane ? 

[Primal Slayer]

Im going to assume that the writers went out of their way to have Alice walk in on her crew having killed someone so they go with the "She didnt order them to kill your mom, they killed your mom themselved" route whenever Ryan gets a chance to kill Alice.

59 minutes ago, 128survivor said:

Who sent Alice the paper airplane ? 

Isnt it the mysterious woman they were talking about last season that's coming to town?

[bmoore4026]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

1. An answer to where exactly is Batman and why has he been gone from Gotham for four years?

 

Word.  I hate "secrets for secrets' sake,"  It's bad writing.  The reason I can't stand Lost and ended up hating Heroes.  If it were up to me, I'd pull a meta and have the characters breaking the fourth wall and saying "Batman's gone because WB higher ups won't let us use him or his rogues gallery."

[possibilities]

So... Luke didn't know the Batmobile was in the Batcave? Where did he think Bruce parked it? I guess they didn't want to have NewBatwoman ride a motorcycle, so they are giving her the Batmobile now? I love the idea of her driving her RV, but I know that kills the anonymity factor, plus those things don't handle well enough for intricate maneuvers.

We don't know how the suit got on the airplane without Kate. It seems like a message, though. No one would kidnap Kate and leave her suit behind, would they? And Kate wouldn't send the suit home as a checked bag or something. It doesn't make much sense right now.

 

 

 

 

[Jediknight]

21 minutes ago, possibilities said:

We don't know how the suit got on the airplane without Kate. It seems like a message, though. No one would kidnap Kate and leave her suit behind, would they? And Kate wouldn't send the suit home as a checked bag or something. It doesn't make much sense right now.

I'm guessing that Safiyah abducted Kate, and left the suit as a red herring to make those closest to Kate think that she's dead.  This lets Safiyah keep Kate as a prisoner, without anybody really looking, maybe trying to break her.

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, 128survivor said:

Who sent Alice the paper airplane ? 

Safiyah was a figure mentioned from S1. She tried to have Batwoman killed for some reason and tried to get a "only THIS gun can shoot through the Batsuit" gun through a minion. And then Julia also had some sort of dealings with her.

But that opens up more questions:

Why did she send Alice the paper airplane?

What is she getting even for with Alice?

How did she know just where to send the paper airplane?

Did Safiyah somehow know that Kate was Batwoman? Or did that Kate and Alice are sisters? Why did Safiyah want to target Batwoman originally or Kate? Was it the revenge for Alice messing up the plans to get/fix the Batwoman-killing gun?

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

So... Luke didn't know the Batmobile was in the Batcave? Where did he think Bruce parked it? I guess they didn't want to have NewBatwoman ride a motorcycle, so they are giving her the Batmobile now? I love the idea of her driving her RV, but I know that kills the anonymity factor, plus those things don't handle well enough for intricate maneuvers.

We don't know how the suit got on the airplane without Kate. It seems like a message, though. No one would kidnap Kate and leave her suit behind, would they? And Kate wouldn't send the suit home as a checked bag or something. It doesn't make much sense right now.

If I follow correctly, Bruce hid the Batmobile behind fake walls of the cave. Why Bruce would have done this, who knows? Why Luke wouldn't have been able to figure this out, also who knows? But maybe Luke thought that Bruce took the Batmobile with him when he went wherever he went.

My presumption is that Kate was on the plane, Safiyah or goons under her command hijacked the plane and parachuted her off and then blew up the plane over Gotham. Either they did not know that Kate was Batwoman so would not have bothered to search for the suit, or even assuming they knew, could not find the suit in time (like if it were in a secret compartment in the luggage) before needing to blow up the plane. It was supposed to be a private plane so no checked bags. 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Chicago Redshirt

[cambridgeguy]

9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

She even has a Dead Mom for her to angst over and avenge! Oh yeah, never seen a protagonist with a dead parent they get all angsty over, never in a million years! I mean, that's the backstory of almost every main character in the Arrowverse actually, including Kate's.

Bonus points if your archenemy was the one who killed them, so I think Ryan gets partial credit because those were Alice's thugs but she didn't order the hit.

And things must have been really strained behind the scenes if they couldn't even get RR to record a voiceover for that letter to Sophie.

[mrspidey]

37 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

 

And things must have been really strained behind the scenes if they couldn't even get RR to record a voiceover for that letter to Sophie.

This is why i don't understand the "what if Kate was really abducted"-argument. RR is gone and won't be back. Period. And if they wanted to recast her, they would have done so already, which means Kate is dead dead.

I guess the premiere was as ok as it can get after a tumultuous year of lockdowns and the lead actress quitting.  Still would have preferred a recast in order to continue the Kane-family dynamics which is pretty much the only thing that had kept me engaged all through season one.

But we're not getting that, so i appreciate the attempt to create a new dynamic by turning the old one on its head and have Batwoman seeking revenge on Alice instead of the other way round. 

Poor Sophie, though. Without Kate, she kinda feels... unneccesary. What do you do with the main charater's love interest if you kill off the main character? Even as a regular supporting cast member she doesn't seem to fit well. If they kill off Jacob, she could have a purpose becoming our remaining inside look into the Crows. 

I did like how Alice explained the original plot of season two to us. At least we now know how things would have developed...

One thing i'm confused about: Did Ryan bash Tommy's head in or just his fake face?

Edited January 18, 2021 by mrspidey
Added more thoughts.

[Lady Calypso]

6 hours ago, Jediknight said:

I'm guessing that Safiyah abducted Kate, and left the suit as a red herring to make those closest to Kate think that she's dead.  This lets Safiyah keep Kate as a prisoner, without anybody really looking, maybe trying to break her.

This makes sense to me. My issue is that, since Ruby quit, why would they even leave Kate alive? It teases the idea that Kate will return and, unless they're recasting Kate for the future, it's cruel if they eventually find her dead instead of just doing the deed now. The characters already presume she's dead. And if they're gonna recast Kate later on, why didn't they just do THAT now as well? That's why the storyline isn't quite working for me. It's a fine storyline, but the missing piece is Kate. 

That being said, Javicia Leslie did a wonderful job as Ryan. I actually thought they introduced her quite well and set up a nice arc for her. Now, she has an enemy in Alice, which isn't totally surprising that the connection would be through the murder of her mother. 

Alice taunting Jacob about Kate's death was well done. No surprise the rest of the characters find out about Kate being Batwoman immediately. They'd need to know why there's suddenly a new Batwoman in Gotham. 

The wrap-up on Tommy was about as I expected. I figured Fake Bruce was supposed to last longer with Kate, but cut short with Ryan. Tommy as Fake Bruce was intriguing and I AM glad that he got found out quickly. It felt more realistic that he wouldn't have been able to pull off being Bruce with EVERYONE. So Julia figuring it out was a great way to showcase that.

I think, for me, there's always gonna be that missing piece with Kate and, although I'm still going to continue watching, it's gonna be difficult to completely get over that part.

[scarynikki12]

21 minutes ago, mrspidey said:

Did Ryan bash Tommy's head in or just his fake face?

She knocked his fake face off as she beat him up. He's back at Arkham now and presumably with his head wrapped in bandages.

[Featherhat]

26 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

This makes sense to me. My issue is that, since Ruby quit, why would they even leave Kate alive? It teases the idea that Kate will return and, unless they're recasting Kate for the future, it's cruel if they eventually find her dead instead of just doing the deed now. The characters already presume she's dead. And if they're gonna recast Kate later on, why didn't they just do THAT now as well? That's why the storyline isn't quite working for me. It's a fine storyline, but the missing piece is Kate. 

 

Some shows have an irritating habit of doing that. And actor quits/gets fired and they don't kill them off for some reason and dangle a maybe and have the other characters swear they'll never stop looking for them. And of course the other characters seem like arseholes when they don't actually devote much time to looking for them and we never see them again. Looking at you Stargate Atlantis. I suppose they might be holding out hope RR comes back for some sort of wrap up after she's had time to reflect and/or when the COVID situation is more hopeful. 

I will say I really like JC  as an actress, she has a lot of charm that's carry off an awkward role and probably I'll grow to really like Ryan (despite the name) but it *does* feel really awkward for now because the cast is so built around Kate, not really Batwoman per se.

[mrspidey]

36 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

She knocked his fake face off as she beat him up. He's back at Arkham now and presumably with his head wrapped in bandages.

Thx. I'm really bad with abstract art...

[Loandbehold]

I enjoyed Alice's scene with dear ol' dad. Nice way to twist the knife at the time when his daughter is missing and presumed dead. I also think they aren't saying Kate is dead b/c that gives Alice an excuse to stay in Gotham. 

Did anyone bother to check to see if Kate was actually on the plane? Even if the batsuit was there, she might have been kidnapped before that and the bag was already checked. Surprising that nobody bothered to check. 

The scene b/w Alice and dead!Mouse was creepy, but also left me wondering wouldn't his body be decomposing and smell bad? What about rigor mortis - she took his arm and put it around herself as she lay down snuggling with him. 

[Primal Slayer]

While I cant blame them during COVID, once they are able to do more, I really need them to start working up Gotham as a character within itself. It needs to be a bit more outrageous, stylish, Wayne Corps needs to have actual people in it. Thats en entire storyline with itself.

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, mrspidey said:

This is why i don't understand the "what if Kate was really abducted"-argument. RR is gone and won't be back. Period. And if they wanted to recast her, they would have done so already, which means Kate is dead dead.

I guess the premiere was as ok as it can get after a tumultuous year of lockdowns and the lead actress quitting.  Still would have preferred a recast in order to continue the Kane-family dynamics which is pretty much the only thing that had kept me engaged all through season one.

But we're not getting that, so i appreciate the attempt to create a new dynamic by turning the old one on its head and have Batwoman seeking revenge on Alice instead of the other way round. 

Poor Sophie, though. Without Kate, she kinda feels... unneccesary. What do you do with the main charater's love interest if you kill off the main character? Even as a regular supporting cast member she doesn't seem to fit well. If they kill off Jacob, she could have a purpose becoming our remaining inside look into the Crows. 

I did like how Alice explained the original plot of season two to us. At least we now know how things would have developed...

One thing i'm confused about: Did Ryan bash Tommy's head in or just his fake face?

Never say never. Whatever happened behind the scenes, might have left RR or TPTB with bad enough feelings that literally RR couldn't or wouldn't come back at this point to just literally phone in that letter. (Or timing could have not worked out, or the CW could be too cheap to pay her say $10,000 for reading it). That doesn't mean that things won't get better between the two (or timing might not improve or TPTB wouldn't open up the purse strings at some point).

We know that Kate isn't dead because a) TPTB have said they didn't and wouldn't kill her and b) the old comic-book rule that if you don't see a body, then you can't count on the person being dead.

It would have made more sense to me that they just made Sophie Batwoman. She has the skills, she has a connection to Kate, there was a more organic way for her to have gotten the suit than it literally falling in her lap. But now that Ryan is in the picture, she still has the role of uneasy ally with Batwoman. Now that she knows and Jacob knows, it will be interesting to see what they do with this knowledge once it becomes more public that there's a new Batwoman in town. With Sophie, I fear they will make her a new love interest for either Ryan or Batwoman.

Ryan punched him enough that the fake face came off. 

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

This makes sense to me. My issue is that, since Ruby quit, why would they even leave Kate alive? It teases the idea that Kate will return and, unless they're recasting Kate for the future, it's cruel if they eventually find her dead instead of just doing the deed now. The characters already presume she's dead. And if they're gonna recast Kate later on, why didn't they just do THAT now as well? That's why the storyline isn't quite working for me. It's a fine storyline, but the missing piece is Kate. 

A. They may hold out hope that Ruby would reconsider coming back even for a cameo or voiceover or something small.

B. They were concerned with the possible backlash of killing off their first/most prominent lesbian superhero.

[CletusMusashi]

Mouse is probably embalmed. As for rigor mortis, it's only a temporary phenomenon.

The part I'm wondering about is how Ryan is going to establish as strong a relationship with Alice as Kate had.

I fear it will be more like:

"You killed my mother!"

"Can you be more specific? I kill a lot of people's mothers. Who are you again?"

"I'm your worst enemy!"

"Bitch, please. You're not my nemesis. Now get rid of that silly costume before my actual nemesis comes back and sees you."

Edited January 18, 2021 by CletusMusashi

[cdnalor]

When Ryan was going to town on Tommy's face,  I immediately thought of the teaser with Pattinson's Batman going psycho on a bad guy.  I'm wondering if this show will take its cue from the upcoming movie to give us a more violent Batwoman.

[possibilities]

When the fake face fell off, I thought for the first time about how disgusting and uncomfortable it must be to wear one. It has to be very close fitting, and... just ugh.

 

 

 

[mtlchick]

2 hours ago, Featherhat said:

 

I will say I really like JC  as an actress, she has a lot of charm that's carry off an awkward role and probably I'll grow to really like Ryan (despite the name) but it *does* feel really awkward for now because the cast is so built around Kate, not really Batwoman per se.

As I went to bed last night, I was thinking if 2020 was weird for us, it must have been extra weird for her.  She starts off 2020 being on a show in New York only for production to get shut down and then cancelled with no proper ending.  Then gets hired for a show where she's the new sudden lead that films at the other end of the continent and has to reboot itself to resolve issues from their shut down. 

 

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

While I cant blame them during COVID, once they are able to do more, I really need them to start working up Gotham as a character within itself. It needs to be a bit more outrageous, stylish, Wayne Corps needs to have actual people in it. Thats en entire storyline with itself.

There are only so many ways you can try to dress up Vancouver as a different DC city before you give up.  Here's hoping once COVID is over and it's easier to travel between the USA and Canada for work purposes (Canada requires a 14 day quarantine upon entering) there are more scenes shot in Chicago again.

Edited January 18, 2021 by mtlchick

[Primal Slayer]

4 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

There are only so many ways you can try to dress up Vancouver as a different DC city before you give up.  Here's hoping once COVID is over and it's easier to travel between the USA and Canada for work purposes (Canada requires a 14 day quarantine upon entering) there are more scenes shot in Chicago ago. 

I think their Chicago shooting days are already over. As these shows go on, TheCW only gets cheaper and cheaper. Thats why it takesa really talented person to work with what they have and make it somewhat work. If we go through 5 years of Wayne Tower being abandoned and only the Bat-gang using it...I will scream. I cant with another Flash/Starlabs situation.

[AnimeMania]

Did anybody else's broadcast glitch for about 2 minutes after Batwoman plays opossum after being shot till a little before she turns fake Bruce Wayne's face into ground beef? I tried two different cable companies broadcasts and both have the same glitch at the exact same spot, suggesting it was broadcast that way. I had to go to the CW website to watch the broken plant portion which triggered the savage beatdown.

[Starry]

I liked it!

Ryan is a very rootable character and Javicia did pretty good in the role.

I think they gave us a believable reason for Ryan to go after Alice. But Alice is a strong enough villain she can have her own storylines that aren't directly connected to Ryan's version of Batwoman.

I loved the more emotional moments with Jacob and Sophie (I guess this is the end of Sophie/Julia?) but I worry about her role in the long run. Mary's too. What I liked about Team Batwoman was that Kate and Mary were sisters as opposed to just teammates. There's no preexisting relationship between Ryan and Mary/Luke which reduces them to doctor and tech support respectively. Ryan has been blessed with a ready-made team and I don't really like it when superhero shows do that.

I hope they build up the relationship between Jacob and Mary. At this point they are the only family they have left.

Alice lying next to Mouse's dead body must be one of the creepiest scenes the show has had.

I am glad they wrapped up the fake Bruce arc. Tommy was barely trying! And now Ryan knows that Batman is Bruce Wayne too.

I believe they are being vague about Kate's fate because they wanted to avoid the Bury Your Gays trope. I think Kate's disappearance will be a storyline and when Ruby doesn't come back by the end of the season they'll say that she moved abroad or something like that.

[Cryonix]

Didn't like it, thought it was a lame storyline & the new Batwoman, will not be able to replace RR, the new actress herself was ok, just the plot did not seem to fit. Seems like everyone else liked it so I guess I'm the odd one out, ah well it is, what it is.

[Loandbehold]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

We know that Kate isn't dead because a) TPTB have said they didn't and wouldn't kill her and b) the old comic-book rule that if you don't see a body, then you can't count on the person being dead.

As FarScape demonstrated, there's dead, and then there's head-on-a-stick dead.

[UnoAgain]

4 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

would have made more sense to me that they just made Sophie Batwoman

Maybe.. But I feel like Ryan connects well to Mary and Luke... And she has a vendetta against Alice... That's a solid starting point.. I will be interested in how her relationship with the 3 crows works.. As now they all know Kate was batwoman... I gotta imagine Sophie and Big daddy Kane will put two and two together and figure out Luke was working with her as BW and presumably is still working with the new one... So will they be antagonistic... Will BDK decide to help this BW as a way to make amends for treating Kate so trashy when she was suited up... As long as Sophie doesnt fall in love with Ryan... Doubt it tho.. Looks like she has a certain type and Ryan doesn't really fit that

[Primal Slayer]

4 minutes ago, UnoAgain said:

Maybe.. But I feel like Ryan connects well to Mary and Luke... And she has a vendetta against Alice... That's a solid starting point.. I will be interested in how her relationship with the 3 crows works.. As now they all know Kate was batwoman... I gotta imagine Sophie and Big daddy Kane will put two and two together and figure out Luke was working with her as BW and presumably is still working with the new one... So will they be antagonistic... Will BDK decide to help this BW as a way to make amends for treating Kate so trashy when she was suited up... As long as Sophie doesnt fall in love with Ryan... Doubt it tho.. Looks like she has a certain type and Ryan doesn't really fit that

But who doesnt have a vendetta against Alice? lol. Sophie knows first hand about how terrible Alice can be and since it is her bosses/Kates sister she would also have that struggle of trying to redeem her. Not to mention the struggle between being a Crow and now a vigilante.

Ratings are also in

Quote

he new Batwoman drew 663,000 viewers and a 0.1 rating, down from both its Season 1 averages (995K/0.26) and its freshman finale (740K/0.2), marking its third smallest audience to date and matching its demo low (which was reached about a year ago).

https://tvline.com/2021/01/18/tv-ratings-batwoman-season-2-premiere-kate-kane-missing/

[Quark]

I couldn't get through the first season, as I thought Ruby Rose was absolutely dreadful. I tuned into this to see if the new actress is better.

She is vastly superior to Ruby Rose and I look forward to seeing how the rest of the season progresses.

[Trini]

I am rooting for Ryan*, but I still think it was a very odd writing decision to just pass the mantle on to a random new character.

I like her, not so much giving her ALL the trauma as a backstory.

I appreciate them writing in some connections to the other characters, but they could have just introduced someone who was already connected to the Bat-family. In any case, I can see potential for growing her relationships with the 'Bat-team', and I hope that goes well.

*(Y'all don't know how much it pains me to type out this stupid name)

All throughout this episode I kept thinking, "Whenever Bruce does come back, he's going to be so pissed at how many of his secrets are out there"! I'm sad that they had to cut the Tommy-as Bruce storyline so short, but I get why. However, props to Warren Christie for incorporating Gabriel Mann's inflections and mannerisms for his Tommy; the scene between him and Alice was great.

So, did we know that Jacob hates(?) his nephew Bruce Wayne? That seems like new information. The cocaine line seemed harsh, when as far I know, abusing drugs isn't part of Bruce's public (or private) persona.

All the reactions to Kate's (supposed) death were just about right to me. With no body, this gives Jacob a more compelling story (searching for Kate) than he had before. But I still feel he's the most useless cast member. I'm worried about Julia since she's not a regular.

Now Kate's secret is out to Sophie and Jacob, I hope that means it will bring some of the cast together in different ways. I mean, they'll figure out that other people knew before them, etc., and that should make for some charged interactions. BTW, I don't think it was clear how Ryan found out that Kate Kane was Batwoman. She seemed to kind of know when she met Luke and Mary? I wonder if a scene was cut.

The narration of Kate's letter to Sophie didn't sound like Ruby Rose to me.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Trini

[Trini]

14 hours ago, Jediknight said:

I'm guessing that Safiyah abducted Kate, and left the suit as a red herring to make those closest to Kate think that she's dead.  This lets Safiyah keep Kate as a prisoner, without anybody really looking, maybe trying to break her.

I like this theory, but I've also got a slightly more optimistic one:

Kate was rescued mid-air by her super friend, Supergirl; she's staying in hiding to find the people who tried to kill her, but along the way she finds clues to Bruce's whereabouts and then goes to search for him.

[Primal Slayer]

If it was Ruby doing the narration she definitely would've been credited for it, but the english was to legit for it to be her. 

Can someone remind me why The Crows are front and center of all the crimes that go on in Gotham as opposed to the GCPD? Ive already forgotten.