All Creatures Great And Small (2021) - General Discussion

[crankcase]

8 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I couldn’t make heads or tails of the cricket. How would it have been a draw if James hit the ball if the Upperclass Twit team was so far ahead in scoring? Curling makes more sense!

Didn’t know Tricki Woo could run that fast! 😆

“The captain of the batting side may declare an innings closed … at any time during a match. … A captain considering declaration must balance the risks of declaring too early (thus setting too low a target for the opposing team) against those of declaring too late or not at all (thus making it easier for the opponents to force a draw preventing the completion of the match).”

The match was “timed.” The team batting second would ALL have to be made out before the time limit to avoid a draw if the team batting first were ahead.

The “declare” rule is absolutely necessary, as otherwise tha team that wins the coin toss would win virtually every time-limited game with the tactic of eventually merely deflecting every ball and not trying to hit for a run (as Tristan urged James to do).

Many US football fans complain about the NFL overtime rule that allows the team that wins the toss to win the game with an immediate TD without the other side ever getting the ball.

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by crankcase
x

[BusyOctober]

I don’t know anything about Cricket, but the sporty clothes people wore in the late 1800’s 1900’s up to WWII fascinate me.  White flannel trousers and white sweaters to play a game on grass and sometimes mud?  I know poly blends didn’t exist, but why not gray or brown pants?  But these are people of the same generations who explored the Arctic and the Himalayas in cotton and wool and leather.

Glad Helen and Hugh hashed it all out.  I hope we don’t have to see James moping around with jealousy over their relationship anymore.  Helen declared she loves James, Hugh has moved on to the Jean Harlow wannabe, so time to move on and enjoy life with Helen. 

I haven’t read the books, so I don’t know if Mrs. Hall ends up with Sigfried, but I would rather see her with the clock repair guy.  Sigfried s a big baby, and Audrey already raised a child.  Let her have some fun with a kind man who obviously likes her “in that way”.

Please let us see the pups from Tricky Woo’s dalliance with Bella!
 

 

[MissLucas]

3 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

I know poly blends didn’t exist, but why not gray or brown pants?  But these are people of the same generations who explored the Arctic and the Himalayas in cotton and wool and leather.

During the 19th century when a lot of modern sports were embraced/developed by the British upper-class white clothes were considered the better option for the summer heat. Another argument is color contrast  with the red cricket ball. And there was also an element of classism - wearing white meant you had the money to pay someone taking care of your wardrobe. White became the color of sports attire, s. also tennis. This even applied to winter sports to a certain degree until colorful knitwear became fashionable in the 1920s - a fashion trend that also left its mark on this show. 

It's been a while since I watched this episode but I seem to remember a subtle color coding between the two teams as well.

[crankcase]

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

Were the books or the original series so light on animal stories, though? I feel like they're only barely nodding toward the vet practice this season. It's mostly become a romance show and that's annoying to me. If the original series is mostly animal stuff, I might try to track that down.

The problem is not the romance, it’s the implausible lifelessness of it. Tricky Woo is by far the most sexually passionate creature on the show. By contrast, the main human romance depicted is best described by the old rhyme:

James and Helen

Sitting in a tree

K-I-S-S-I-N-G!

First comes love

Then comes marriage

Then comes baby

In a baby carriage!

The (London) Times’ critic’s take on the ‘75 film version (with Anthony Hopkins): “All Creatures Great and Small is so wholesome and warmhearted it makes you want to scream. Not on account of these qualities in themselves, but because of the director's inability to give them any more depth or meaning than a television series."

[possibilities]

1 hour ago, BusyOctober said:

I haven’t read the books, so I don’t know if Mrs. Hall ends up with Sigfried, but I would rather see her with the clock repair guy.  Sigfried s a big baby, and Audrey already raised a child.  Let her have some fun with a kind man who obviously likes her “in that way”.

That's how I feel, too. 

I wondered if it was really a thing that the extremely wealthy like Mrs Pumfrey and Hugh would be on a team with the moderate class such as Siegfried, and the barely making it, like Helen. I know it's a small town, but still-- that degree of social mixing surprises me. Mrs Hall as scorekeeper was enjoyable, but I also wondered about the realism of it.

I really like Clock Guy.

Was also happy to see the family dog again, after her inexplicable absence from recent episodes.

I worry about an endless exponential population growth of puppies, with a lax attitude toward spay/neuter. Not sure how the show would cook up a specifically terrier/pekingese litter, but I suppose if they want to show us the puppies, they can have any dogs cast in the role, as how many viewers will know what the combination would look like?

[chitowngirl]

59 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

During the 19th century when a lot of modern sports were embraced/developed by the British upper-class white clothes were considered the better option for the summer heat. Another argument is color contrast  with the red cricket ball. And there was also an element of classism - wearing white meant you had the money to pay someone taking care of your wardrobe. White became the color of sports attire, s. also tennis. This even applied to winter sports to a certain degree until colorful knitwear became fashionable in the 1920s - a fashion trend that also left its mark on this show. 

It's been a while since I watched this episode but I seem to remember a subtle color coding between the two teams as well.

Wimbledon players still wear all white.

[4merBachAddict]

For those who are wondering, the animal stories & anecdotes are the majority of the books. We do get to know the human characters, too but they are secondary. The original series was much closer to the books  and - IMO - better than the current show. 

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by 4merBachAddict

[Llywela]

54 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I wondered if it was really a thing that the extremely wealthy like Mrs Pumfrey and Hugh would be on a team with the moderate class such as Siegfried, and the barely making it, like Helen. I know it's a small town, but still-- that degree of social mixing surprises me. Mrs Hall as scorekeeper was enjoyable, but I also wondered about the realism of it

Siegfried wasn't on the same team as Hugh. He was on the village team, playing against Hugh, as per his middle class professional position on the social ladder. And yes, local gentry did (and still do) take part in community activities of this kind - they'd have seen it as part of their 'noblesse oblige', like opening a village fete or hosting garden parties on their estate grounds. All part of the social contract - just as tenants had obligations to the gentry, so the gentry had obligations to their people.

ETA - I think we saw a similar community cricket match in an episode of Downton Abbey one time, set about 15 years earlier than this. Englishmen take their cricket very seriously!

Edited February 7, 2022 by Llywela

[Blergh]

Last night it seemed that spell out that Hugh held the lease to the entire Alderson farm and not just was subleasing a small part of it. If that's  the case, I'm a bit surprised that Mr. Alderson and Jenny wouldn't have pressured Helen into marrying him to keep their family home and farm intact even if she didn't love him (which, alas, would have hardly been unheard of). Well, the fact that they did NOT shows that they each truly care about her as a person and is willing to accept if not like whatever her ultimate choices in life may be. 

BTW, in the Books and OS, James, Tristan and even Siegfried treated Mrs. Hall as a den mother who they deferred to instead of anyone considering her a possible romantic interest- especially since she was roughly a generation older than the men. She was also a childless widow who appeared to have no interest in remarriage or romance with anyone. So no there no clockmakers around who rang her chimes. 

Interesting that Tristan and Siegfried actually shared cricket anecdotes about their late father (who evidently had lived long enough to have seen Tristan get big enough to play cricket). And it seems they cherished his memory- even if they both now try to avoid seeing or even mentioning their evidently living mother! 

Well, at least Tristan seemed to regain some of his usual joviality in this latest episode (and it was good to see him being genuinely helpful to James re James's sincere ignorance of cricket)- albeit unsure what's next. I don't think he should envy Hugh for Margot being attracted to him.  If they wed, he'll soon find her to too shallow to be someone he can rely on in tough times. 

Thankfully, Mrs. Pomphrey got talked out of altering Tricki by Siegfried. Yes, #3 is OK but I can't help but imagine how much more OOMPH both the late Margaretta Scott and Dame Diana Rigg would have put into her angst over him. .. growing up. 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Blergh

[Rickster]

2 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

I don’t know anything about Cricket, but the sporty clothes people wore in the late 1800’s 1900’s up to WWII fascinate me.  White flannel trousers and white sweaters to play a game on grass and sometimes mud?  I know poly blends didn’t exist, but why not gray or brown pants?  But these are people of the same generations who explored the Arctic and the Himalayas in cotton and wool and leather.

You could make the same point about American baseball, where home uniforms were always all white (and often still are).

[Driad]

Characters say "dogs have jobs." The job of a terrier, such as Tricki's girlfriend, is to kill rodents. I'd expect that if a terrier is to be bred, her owner would want her mate to be another terrier, so the pups would be useful at the same job. Why would the owner let her run loose to be bred by some random dog, especially a Pekinese who is not adapted to any job except sitting in someone's lap? Their pups may be cute, but that was not most people's priority at that place and time.

James and the bull: as I said before about Tristan and the sow, why not have a small pen where an animal can be treated without being able to attack the vet? 

[DonnaMae]

2 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

I haven’t read the books, so I don’t know if Mrs. Hall ends up with Sigfried,

I haven't either, but I've read enough topics here to know that Mrs. Hall in the books is a much older woman and apparently not as much a part of the family like this Mrs. Hall.

[Llywela]

20 minutes ago, Blergh said:

Last night it seemed that spell out that Hugh held the lease to the entire Alderson farm and not just was subleasing a small part of it. If that's  the case, I'm a bit surprised that Mr. Alderson and Jenny wouldn't have pressured Helen into marrying him to keep their family home and farm intact even if she didn't love him (which, alas, would have hardly been unheard of). Well, the fact that they did NOT shows that they each truly care about her as a person and is willing to accept if not like whatever her ultimate choices in life may be

It hadn't occurred to me that anyone would think the Aldersons were merely leasing part of their land from Hugh. That's not how it worked (and still does work, in many areas). Landowners owned vast swathes of the countryside, lock, stock and barrel. Local farmers might work the same farm for generations, the lease passed down from father to son, but it was a lease they were passing on, not the property. The farm itself would always be owned by the landowner, to whom the farmer paid rent for the privilege of working the land. And the landowner then lived off those rents, and was thus spared the necessity of working for a living himself. Often, many of the houses and shops in a given village might also be owned by the local gentry, with the residents and shopkeepers paying rent. When we talk about landowners owning entire villages, that really is literal! It is a holdover from the old days of pure feudalism.

(As a side note, this is why the Duchy of Cornwall is so lucrative for Prince Charles, to take one current day example. The Duchy owns vast swathes of land - and by land, I mean farms, houses, shops, etc - and thus rakes in a fortune in rents.)

2 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

I don’t know anything about Cricket, but the sporty clothes people wore in the late 1800’s 1900’s up to WWII fascinate me.  White flannel trousers and white sweaters to play a game on grass and sometimes mud?  I know poly blends didn’t exist, but why not gray or brown pants?  But these are people of the same generations who explored the Arctic and the Himalayas in cotton and wool and leather.

Well, if you are playing cricket properly, at no point do the white clothes ever touch the ground. It's not like football or rugby, where the players are forever falling over onto muddy grass!

Edited February 7, 2022 by Llywela

[JudyObscure]

 I smiled through the whole episode.  We got to see Mrs. Hall's adorable clock-fixer, Tristan  shining at something, Siegfried looking extremely handsome in his cricket clothes and Tricki-Woo running! 

James is such a good, generous guy and Helen loves him for it!

[crankcase]

36 minutes ago, Llywela said:

Well, if you are playing cricket properly, at no point do the white clothes ever touch the ground. It's not like football or rugby, where the players are forever falling over onto muddy grass!

Not true.

 

[pasdetrois]

Quote

I do find it amusing that a sport is played in a sweater vest.

The vests seemed to have a colorful stripe that matched the caps. School loyalties?

I'm reminded of the cricket in "A Passage to India."

The British always say "the cricket" and "the football," which makes me chuckle because it reminds me of people who say "the Facebook."

Not enough animals in this series. The books were notable because of the many ways the animals needed a vet, and how young Herriott was challenged. I agree that production is saving money by minimizing the need for animal actors. I guess they think viewers prefer a soap opera. This viewer does not.

That young bull was beautiful.

Edited February 7, 2022 by pasdetrois

[peacheslatour]

Quote

 I guess they think viewers prefer a soap opera. This viewer does not.

Nor this one.

[monakane]

3 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

Please let us see the pups from Tricky Woo’s dalliance with Bella!

This times 1,000!

[JudyObscure]

Maybe the farmer won't want them and they'll all go live on the sofa with their dad.

[Daff]

1 hour ago, Llywela said:

Local farmers might work the same farm for generations, the lease passed down from father to son, but it was a lease they were passing on, not the property.

Yes, this was made abundantly clear in the ending seasons of Downton, when Daisy totally embarrassed herself and everyone around her, making an inappropriate, boisterous protest against the new owner of William’s father’s tenancy (sorry, can’t remember their surname). Also, the tenant farmer who took Edith’s Marigold. When it all blew up, he was terribly sorry to have to give up his tenancy. So Hugh’s explanation made sense, and he did the right thing. And I’m glad he and Helen want to go back to their “pals” friendship. While he was talking to her, however, I couldn’t help but see the child’s face uttering the line, “Why is it always ME?”

[Good Queen Jane]

I'm just disappointed they didn't cut to a scene of fireworks going off after Tricky got to Bella. Too early in the day, I guess.

[Pallas]

On 2/7/2022 at 8:12 AM, BusyOctober said:

White flannel trousers and white sweaters to play a game on grass and sometimes mud?  I know poly blends didn’t exist, but why not gray or brown pants?

Because the white looks picturesque against the landscape -- like woolly sheep upon the lawns -- and because the cricketers were not the launderers. 

[ShelleySue]

I once read that the reason Victorian babies always wore white is because the bleaches and detergents in those days were harsh and would bleach colors.  So it was easier to just have clothes that had to be frequently washed start out white because they were going to end up that color anyway.  After all, why go through the time and expense of dying them .  I'm not sure if the same is true in the 1930 but maybe certain things just got to be habits, like making clothes that would be soiled in light colors. 

3 hours ago, DonnaMae said:

I haven't either, but I've read enough topics here to know that Mrs. Hall in the books is a much older woman and apparently not as much a part of the family like this Mrs. Hall.

In the original tv show doesn't she end up marrying the butcher?  I read all of the books, but I can't remember if that's what happened in the books too.

[Packerbrewerbadger]

For all those wondering about the “ animal light” episodes…… original series was much more animal orientated but  I read an interesting article on how new laws have put much tighter restrictions on how animals are handled in the series.  This might be one factor.  
 

[Quilt Fairy]

4 hours ago, Driad said:

Characters say "dogs have jobs." The job of a terrier, such as Tricki's girlfriend, is to kill rodents. I'd expect that if a terrier is to be bred, her owner would want her mate to be another terrier, so the pups would be useful at the same job. Why would the owner let her run loose to be bred by some random dog, especially a Pekinese who is not adapted to any job except sitting in someone's lap? Their pups may be cute, but that was not most people's priority at that place and time.

Tricki Woo is not some random dog, he's the dog of an extremely rich, land-owning woman.  I thought Bella's owner made it clear to Siegfried that Bella having Tricki Woo's pups would have some definite benefits for him. 

[sugarbaker design]

6 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

I haven’t read the books, so I don’t know if Mrs. Hall ends up with Sigfried, but I would rather see her with the clock repair guy.  Sigfried s a big baby

Same here!  Audrey deserves so much better than an entitled, petulant brat!

[Daff]

16 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Tricki Woo is not some random dog, he's the dog of an extremely rich, land-owning woman.  I thought Bella's owner made it clear to Siegfried that Bella having Tricki Woo's pups would have some definite benefits for him. 

I understand. Bragging rights, and possibly being able to get something in trade for the pups. That comment was surprising and funny. But the point I think Driad was trying to make is that most of the farmers in the area thought keeping a pet on a working farm was frivolous and bled precious resources unless it had a purpose (a “job”) to justify its upkeep. Liken it to spending money on a wireless (ie: feed the pet) when you can’t afford food for your family or rent. They always seemed to be a day (disease, storm, just bad luck) away from ruin. Helen’s father was very brave and proud, leaving the bull decision up to Helen, but he’s well aware of the struggles. 

[peacheslatour]

Do any of you belong to AKC? Don't breeders consider a purebred dog "ruined" if it breeds with a dog not of it's breed?

[Daff]

1 hour ago, ShelleySue said:

In the original tv show doesn't she end up marrying the butcher?  I read all of the books, but I can't remember if that's what happened in the books too.

I thought that too, but now I’m thinking that was a later housekeeper. One who worked out for them and was hired after Mrs. Hall was gone, after Siegfried married and moved, when Helen tried to be housekeeper and work for the practice, too. 

[Daff]

2 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Do any of you belong to AKC? Don't breeders consider a purebred dog "ruined" if it breeds with a dog not of it's breed?

Didn’t think of that, but I can’t see Mrs. P devoting the time and effort to showing Tricky. I do remember in the last season(s), Mrs. P set up a “pairing” assignation for the dog. Tristan was engaged to oversee it and as usual, it turned into a comical farce. 

[izabella]

9 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Do any of you belong to AKC? Don't breeders consider a purebred dog "ruined" if it breeds with a dog not of it's breed?

That seems really harsh, lol!  It's not like Tricki Woo gets cooties for life if he shags a cute little terrier.

Even so, I don't think his human is interested in breeding him or showing him, just enjoying him in her home.  So even if Tricki Woo is ruined by his foray into adulthood, Mrs. Pomfrey won't think he's ruined at all.

[peacheslatour]

4 minutes ago, izabella said:

That seems really harsh, lol!  It's not like Tricki Woo gets cooties for life if he shags a cute little terrier.

Even so, I don't think his human is interested in breeding him or showing him, just enjoying him in her home.  So even if Tricki Woo is ruined by his foray into adulthood, Mrs. Pomfrey won't think he's ruined at all.

Oh I was not suggesting that! But I know, in the back of my mind from when I was a vet tech, that used to be the case.

[possibilities]

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

All part of the social contract - just as tenants had obligations to the gentry, so the gentry had obligations to their people.

Ah, in the USA, the social contract of that sort does not exist. 

[peacheslatour]

10 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Ah, in the USA, the social contract of that sort does not exist. 

It used to. See: The Roosevelt family.

[ECM1231]

Why didn't James know anything about cricket? I could understand if he wasn't interested in sports, per se, but he didn't seem to know any of the rules.

[dargosmydaddy]

14 hours ago, possibilities said:

If the original series is mostly animal stuff, I might try to track that down.

It is. 

[magdalene]

Tricki Woo frolicking in slow motion on his way to romance/err...shag his lady love made me laugh.  I didn't know he had frolicking in him.

James not knowing how to play cricket - is it because he is city raised?

[Quilt Fairy]

13 minutes ago, magdalene said:

James not knowing how to play cricket - is it because he is city raised?

Perhaps because he was raised in Glasgow - a working class city in Scotland.  I could be way off on this, but I don't think the Scots are as much into cricket as the English. 

[peacheslatour]

33 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Perhaps because he was raised in Glasgow - a working class city in Scotland.  I could be way off on this, but I don't think the Scots are as much into cricket as the English. 

Yes, he said he had played football which is rugby to us. That's more of a rough and tumble city game.

[DonnaMae]

I thought football in Britain was soccer in the US.

[crankcase]

1 hour ago, DonnaMae said:

I thought football in Britain was soccer in the US.

Right, again. There’s a saying in the UK that goes something like, “rugby is a ruffian sport played by gentlemen, and football is a gentlemanly sport played by ruffians.” Rugby was a  major sport in “public” (i.e., private, and usually boarding) schools, which James would not have attended. (“Rugby” is also the name of one of the most famous public schools in England and the originator of the sport. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_School)

Here is a great complete movie about about a professional rugby player:

An entire stadium sings the Welsh National Anthem before a rugby match against England.

A rugby international championship pre-game “haka.” It’s based on New Zealand Maori war dances. Don’t miss it!

In Glasgow, football was king, and the rivalry between their two professional teams was fierce.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Firm

Edited February 8, 2022 by crankcase
x

[peacheslatour]

13 minutes ago, crankcase said:

Right, again. There’s a saying in the UK that goes something like, “rugby is a ruffian sport played by gentlemen, and football is a gentlemanly sport played by ruffians.” Rugby was a  major sport in “public” (i.e., private, and usually boarding) schools, which James would not have attended. (“Rugby” is also the name of one of the most famous public schools in England and the originator of the sport. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_School)

In Glasgow, football was king, and the rivalry between their two professional teams was fierce.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Firm

I stand corrected. Thanks!

[crankcase]

33 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I stand corrected. Thanks!

Be careful or you’ll gain a reputation for moral and intellectual integrity and become a pariah as a result. 

[AZChristian]

On 2/4/2022 at 8:23 AM, Blergh said:

Something else occurred to me re Tristan's Birthday Party: correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there an episode last season in which Siegfried referred to having visited or seen their mother? If so, that means she DOES exist in the New Series so where was she during her younger son's birthday? Virtually every mother I've ever known or heard of with a breath left in her has made every effort imaginable to BE at their offspring's birthdays (or send very compelling and/or tragic regrets beyond their control).  I know that she was supposed to be dreaded while  never depicted in the OS and Books but, if she's still exists, would it have killed the scriptwriters to have dropped some line about why she wasn't there for own son's birthday party(even if it was a lame instead of compelling reason)?

I thought the first mention of Siegfried's mother was in the first episode of the first season in this reincarnation of the show . . . rewatched it, but didn't find the reference (but I'm pretty sure Mrs. Hall told James that Siegfried had "gone to visit his mother.")

With a great deal of curiosity, I rewatched the first episode of the original series (with Robert Hardy).  TWICE in that first episode (at different times), the "going to visit his mother" phrase was used to explain Siegfried's absence.

Just wondering . . . might he been visiting a woman who caused him to yell "MOTHER" at a moment of extreme release?

I can't imagine him dealing with the Trials of Tristan without the help of a not-too-far-away parent.

[crankcase]

What kinds of places and with what kinds of men has Audrey been that she knows more than Siegfried about cricket bowling strategies and techniques?

[Zella]

As an American, I love when British shows break out cricket matches. It's just similar enough to baseball that I will momentarily think I understand what is happening, but it remains enough of a complete mystery to me that I am always quickly disabused of the notion I can follow the action. LOL But the outfits are snazzy! 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Zella

[peacheslatour]

25 minutes ago, Zella said:

As an American, I love when British shows break out cricket matches. It's just similar enough to baseball that I will momentarily think I understand what is happening, but it remains enough of a complete mystery to me that I am always quickly disabused of the notion I can follow the action. LOL But the outfits are snazzy! 

Can you imagine the pitcher running straight at the batter? It's wild.

[Blergh]

1 hour ago, crankcase said:

What kinds of places and with what kinds of men has Audrey been that she knows more than Siegfried about cricket bowling strategies and techniques?

I dunno but what kind of  housekeeper would not so much as raise an objection to cricket being played inside the house? I'd have thought Mrs. Hall would have ordered them to take their practice session to the back alley- even if she's the score keeper? BTW, why did even the hoity toities seem to consider her a totally unbiased ref- with at least two players of the opposing team living under the roof she was working in?

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, Blergh said:

BTW, why did even the hoity toities seem to consider her a totally unbiased ref- with at least two players of the opposing team living under the roof she was working in?

Honestly, as someone who lives in a small town, that doesn't surprise me at all that nobody would mind. It's really impossible to avoid someone being something to someone else where I live, which is an even larger town than where they live, so if you start excluding people on the basis of whom they are related to, work for, or are friends with, you'd probably have nobody who could qualify as ref. 

[possibilities]

Also, Mrs Audrey Hall is the kind of person you don't argue with.