S16.E11: Week 11

[saber5055]

Holy cats, Ivan got a rose. That means Ben is going home?

[Ripley68]

EllenB - YES!!!! That's it exactly!!!! Thank you

oooh...Zac looked nervous when Ivan got the rose, like, "why is she choosing the young black guy, total opposite of me?"

Love the 3 guys standing there like, "um...what do we do now?"  Okay, she's not nearly as torn up about sending Ben home as she was with Riley and Canadian guy (which I still don't get why she was so torn over sending him home).  Oooo...she's not happy with his "it is what it is."

Edited December 16, 2020 by Ripley68

[DEL901]

1 minute ago, saber5055 said:

Holy cats, Ivan got a rose. That means Ben is going home?

Better she break up with him now than later.  He would have had a breakdown....as it is, I hope he doesn’t relapse.  

[seasons]

Just now, DEL901 said:

Better she break up with him now than later.  He would have had a breakdown....as it is, I hope he doesn’t relapse.  

I have the same fear for Zac.

[Crashcourse]

I think Ben would feel better loosening up and having some fun on BIP.  

[saber5055]

Now Ben is going to mope because he didn't tell her he loves her like he was suppose to. And he'll stop and get a bunch of ice cream and See's candy on the way home and pig out before he stops at In And Out for a five pack of burgers and fries to eat before he stops for dinner.

Actually, I think Ben is a little bit relieved.

[JenE4]

As soon as Ben confidently told Harrison he’s in love, I knew he was a goner.

[DEL901]

“I’ll be alright...I’m always alright “.  So sad, especially since we know it isn’t true.   This is the guy with two recent suicide attempts.  

Edited December 16, 2020 by DEL901

[saber5055]

Now T is all pissed that Ben didn't cry or get mad or beg her to take him back. Get over yourself girl.

[thehepburn]

WTF is T waiting for? Does she want Ben to get the razor blades right now? Jeez

[DEL901]

Tayshia really doesn’t get him.  It is all about her.  He has told her about his issues...

[thehepburn]

I KNEW she wanted him to break down (show emotions) in front of her. Red flag!

[EllenB]

Just now, thehepburn said:

WTF is T waiting for? Does she want Ben to get the razor blades right now? Jeez

I think she may have been referring to previous conversations as much as this one.

[saber5055]

T put SO MUCH TIME into Ben and he couldn't even show any emotion when she kicked his ass to the curb. Ben, you ungrateful POS. And T ... What a bee-yotch. But I guess it IS all about you though, isn't it.

[JenE4]

They had the Tell All too soon. This is the kind of stuff we want follow-up on. What do Tayshia and Ben both think after seeing each other’s reactions?

[DEL901]

Now he is getting angry at himself for blowing it by not telling her his feelings.  Please, produces, make sure he gets the help he needs.  

[Crashcourse]

Yeah he needs to get with some friendly bros, and I'm sure some ladies on BIP would be interested in him.  They like hunks.  It didn't do much for his confidence to be competing against a bunch of guys for one woman. 

[Ripley68]

At no time did I see Ben say to T or to the camera that he saw T as his wife or the mother of his children.  His deer in the head lights look in the car just astounds me.  He did not learn his lesson from waiting  to long to talk to her on the one on one.  Ben obviously didn't know the rules in bachelor dating, the contestants have to say the L word first, and than know they won't hear it  until the engagement.

This really was a great group of guys T got. I can totally get the angst here.

[alexa]

2 minutes ago, EllenB said:

I think she may have been referring to previous conversations as much as this one.

I think so too.  Combining this conversation with the others, he gave her nothing to go on.  

[dirtypop90]

Had to send Brendan or Ben home. It was a toss up for me. 

[dizzyd]

Ben gave me the same vibes as Blake from Becca’s season. Needs self help and to focus on himself before getting into a relationship. 

[atlanticslide]

22 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Im not too excited by missing parents.  This was filmed during a pandemic.   Some might not have wanted to risk travelling.   

Yeah, I think Ben even outright said that his parents couldn't come because of the pandemic and that his father's a doctor.

[FlyingEgret]

Was that a fire burning behind Ben?  Did the temperature dip below 100 and they needed to maintain the sweat output?

Also, I saw a ton of emotion in Ben's eyes/face after he was dismissed.  Not sure who Tayisha was looking at and talking about. If she knew him as well she should have at that point she would have been able to see it without him verbalizing every little feel...

Edited December 16, 2020 by FlyingEgret

[bosawks]

3 minutes ago, FlyingEgret said:

Was that a fire burning behind Ben?  Did the temperature dip below 100 and they needed to maintain the sweat output?

I think that was just Ben’s hopes and dreams combusting.....

[phlebas]

Casting: "Okay, we got this guy. He's a former Army Ranger, he's totally ripped, but he can't express himself for shit."

Production: "He sounds perfect. We can cast him as the heartbreak boot at hometowns."

Casting: "He also has a history of some emotional issues."

Production: "Really?"

Casting: "Yeah. Some suicide attempts and stuff like that. It's really upsetting."

Production: "OMG!  Make him first out of the car!"

[dirtypop90]

10 minutes ago, FlyingEgret said:

Was that a fire burning behind Ben?  Did the temperature dip below 100 and they needed to maintain the sweat output?

Also, I saw a ton of emotion in Ben's eyes/face after he was dismissed.  Not sure who Tayisha was looking at and talking about. If she knew him as well she should have at that point she would have been able to see it without him verbalizing every little feel...

That's the thing with this show...she's spent maybe 4 hrs total time with Ben. She doesn't know him and has been playing a guessing game.

[saber5055]

12 minutes ago, FlyingEgret said:

If she knew him as well she should have at that point she would have been able to see it without him verbalizing every little feel...

Please, that's Tayshia you're talking about. She's all about the emotional dumpage, that's all she wants from each of these poor guys. (While giving nothing back.) Ben's the lucky one.

[LuvMyShows]

38 minutes ago, SallyAlbright said:

I like Ben, I think he's a sweet guy and seems like a good person. But he also just seems so fragile and uneasy in his own skin and I wish he could have come on this show later. He makes me a bit uncomfortable at times because HE seems uncomfortable which I feel bad saying. His issues were all so recent that it worries me and I hope he's doing well. 

It is almost as though in order to survive his suicide attempts, he sort of had to disconnect from labeling and expressing certain emotions or it becomes too real for him, even if he may actually be feeling certain things.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

Doesn’t the La Quinta have air conditioning? Sweat is pouring off of Zac’s head and he’s swooping it off of his brow in handfuls.

I'm sure part of it is because he's used to much cooler weather but I also think he's legit into her so he's legit nervous.  In fact, of her final four, he seems the most into her and secure about it.  Honestly, I think he's the only one.  The other three have expressed too many doubts about where they stand.

I mean, Brendan brought his niece on the part of the date when he should be making his final romantic push. I get why he'd want to see how they are together but that's precious time. 

IMO, Ivan seemed happier to hang out with his family and be with his family than introduce Tayshia to them.  It's weird.  I've really liked Ivan but he really felt young in this episode and not ready.  So I think the "I like you but I don't like you like you" is pretty mutual with them.

And Ben, well I've been worried about Ben since we learned his last suicide attempt was only a year ago in addition to everything else that went on with him.  Ben doesn't know what he wants and I get the sense that he wants to be like Tayshia, open and decisive, more than he wants to be with her.  And he liked Antonia telling him he loved Tayshia because he didn't have to reach that conclusion on his own. 

Antonia did him a disservice.  I think he'd be better off acknowledging that Tayshia is just a friend who he cares about. 

My favorite parents were Zac's mom and Ivan's mom and dad.

Overall, the "hometowns" were lackluster.  In general, I think the show has benefited this season by being in one place.  They've had to rely on deep conversations to make the dates interesting as opposed to exotic locales or doing touristy things.  But there is something to be said about actually being in the person's environment that was missing with this episode.

 

55 minutes ago, hyacinth said:

Zach not wanting a spouse or children until meeting Tayshia (on a dating show) seems like a big red flag to me.   And he's usually stern?  

The stern part through me a bit.  But the not wanting kids until he started to fall in love with someone who wants kids?  That's not especially uncommon for men.  Heck, it's not even especially uncommon for women in my experience. 

 

22 minutes ago, Ripley68 said:

OMG!  I recognize his sister, I loved her on Top Chef. 

She's also on Guy's Grocery Games.  (Don't judge me. 😉 It's the pandemic. I've been working from home and The Food Network plays it---like a lot!)  But she's the friend not the sister. The sister was with Tayshia.  I guess we weren't going to get the "hey sis, btw, tried to kill myself twice.  Surprise!" convo.

 

4 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

They had the Tell All too soon. This is the kind of stuff we want follow-up on. What do Tayshia and Ben both think after seeing each other’s reactions?

IIRC, that's what After The Final Rose is for on Tuesday. 

[LuvMyShows]

I wonder why they went ahead and chose Matt to be the first AA Bachelor rather than waiting to see if a fan favorite emerged from Tayshia's season.  I think that many of us would have been thrilled to see Ivan in that role (since the odds don't look good that Tayshia will pick him).  Bet his dating prospects look very good once covid gets under control!

[saber5055]

4 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I guess we weren't going to get the "hey sis, btw, tried to kill myself twice.  Surprise!" convo.

Oh yeah, that's right. Sis will learn about that watching this series. I hope Ben broke it to her so she didn't have to learn about it when the rest of America did.

2 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

I wonder why they went ahead and chose Matt to be the first AA Bachelor rather than waiting to see if a fan favorite emerged from Tayshia's season. 

I think TPTB wanted to get the heat off during the BLM demonstrations. They've been under fire for a while over no AA bachelor.

[SallyAlbright]

6 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

I wonder why they went ahead and chose Matt to be the first AA Bachelor rather than waiting to see if a fan favorite emerged from Tayshia's season.  I think that many of us would have been thrilled to see Ivan in that role (since the odds don't look good that Tayshia will pick him).  Bet his dating prospects look very good once covid gets under control!

I assume the filming schedule messed things up there - Tayshia's season filmed in July, and didn't air until October. Someone like Ivan is still on the show well into December, and Matt's season is scheduled to air in the usual first week of January for the Bachelor. He had to start filming in September. I think they wanted to stay on track with the network scheduling, so only someone eliminated very early this season would have worked. I think Ivan, Riley, Dr. Joe and several others will be very popular on Paradise if they go. 

Edited December 16, 2020 by SallyAlbright

[dirtypop90]

4 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

I wonder why they went ahead and chose Matt to be the first AA Bachelor rather than waiting to see if a fan favorite emerged from Tayshia's season.  I think that many of us would have been thrilled to see Ivan in that role (since the odds don't look good that Tayshia will pick him).  Bet his dating prospects look very good once covid gets under control!

I think Ivan would be a very boring bachelor (not that Matt will be any better lol) Zach and Brendan (if he actually wanted to get engaged) would be interesting bachelor picks

[thehepburn]

I love Ivan but it was understandable why they picked Matt James. He was always going to be a major figure in BN because he has the right pedigree. (friend of a former contestant, right age, media savvy, and is freaking TALL) And I like that we are going back to olden days with an unknown as the lead.

Also, if he did go on Clare's season to do his audition, there was no way Clare was going to let him advance past the first nite. She had it out for him.

[atlanticslide]

14 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

I wonder why they went ahead and chose Matt to be the first AA Bachelor rather than waiting to see if a fan favorite emerged from Tayshia's season.  I think that many of us would have been thrilled to see Ivan in that role (since the odds don't look good that Tayshia will pick him).  Bet his dating prospects look very good once covid gets under control!

I think the biggest reason is probably that they wanted to stick to a filming schedule that required The Bachelor to start filming before The Bachelorette aired.

[Irlandesa]

7 minutes ago, thehepburn said:

Also, if he did go on Clare's season to do his audition, there was no way Clare was going to let him advance past the first nite. She had it out for him.

Why did she have it out for him?

[thehepburn]

10 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Why did she have it out for him?

 

Noone really knows. What IS known is that she scouted all the dudes's SM for months and she didnt like Matt's obviously. He did - and still does - comes across as a frat boy on SM. It accumulated in her infamous tweet about Cameo after Matt James just opened a Cameo account.

FOR charity.

[Arkay]

I am another who wondered if Ivan's brother was his half-brother, especially because his lovely father said he'd been married previously. Then Ivan or Gabe, I forget which, said that Ivan's the older brother, so I guess they are full brothers. I know it sounds judgmental but I would not be able to get over Gabe's tattoos. I despite tattoos but even my own daughter has a bunch. It's the specific prison tattoos, the gang tattoos, that I would fixate on. I know the teardrop and the dagger mean something, is it that the person killed someone? I pray not. Although Gabe was well-spoken and probably has changed dramatically, I personally could not choose Ivan because of his brother's symbolic tattoos. I'm sure that's wrong of me, because Ivan is not Gabe, but I know myself. 

Also, I am completely ignorant of the Food Network, and I did not know this friend Antonia was anyone, but I know it now thanks to my fellow posters here. She seemed like a good friend. I liked the sister. 

I am surprised she kept Ivan over Ben because I just didn't think she was actually all that into Ivan. When she's with Brendan I feel that she's really into him, but there's a passion with Zac that is more than she displays with anyone else. Thankfully Zac did not get those face tattoos when he was in his troubles, although I don't know if he was ever arrested.

I like Brendan but I wouldn't have started a hometown date with a child. It is just a different dynamic. I'm a mother, grandmother and aunt, and I taught school for 25 years. My life is all children. I just wouldn't bring a child along first. 

[luvbadtv]

1 hour ago, Ripley68 said:

I really cannot stand Ben's scoop neck shirt.  When he wears those, it reminds me of something...but I can't remember what.

It's also a tunic; super long.  Looks like what I might wear with my leggings to the gym.

[Kiss my mutt]

Maybe Ben got his shirt from the women’s department. 

[Haute Messe]

Hi Antonia from Top Chef! So nice to see her again. 

Tayshia must have spent her time in quarantine memorizing the chapter Becca submitted in the Bachelorette handbook. Not gonna lie, like, it's a lot. I guess we can thank the gods that "lets do the damn thing"  was left out. And she has mastered the handshake. Diploma worthy! 

Ben's scoop neck shirt is most definitely a fashion don't. Wow, that was a cold good night. Poor guy needs to learn how to express his emotions.  I hope he realizes that he blew it by not professing his everlasting adoration.

All in all, this seemed to be a generally good crop of guys.

[Arkay]

Ben saying that he doesn't understand how to cry is a little shocking, but along with not being able to tell Tayshia that he loves her, he seems to have learned to repress his emotions so they don't get away from him. This may be a coping mechanism he's developed after two suicide attempts. Somewhat the equivalent of the physical control he's mustered over his body, going from bulimic to a personal trainer.

I think it was very cold of Tayshia to be so dismissive of Ben after he was sent away. Why would she be angry that the time they've spent didn't mean anything to Ben? The man told you, at your insistence, the two enormously painful secrets of his life. Cut him if you'd like, that's your prerogative, but don't say this time didn't mean anything to him. From his perspective he gave you much more than he'd expected. 

[Blueberry Snobal]

I know someone who served time in Angola, Louisiana’s state penitentiary. He had a tattoo on his face that looked like a small ink spot. He told me it signified that he had done hard time and was a way that other former inmates could recognize each other, almost like a badge of honor. He also told me that the teardrop tattoo means the person committed murder. I think Ivan’s brother is a very bad dude.

[Bluesky]

3 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

I wonder if Gabriel is Ivan's half-brother: maybe from his father's first marriage?  They don't even look alike. But damn, those facial tattoos. He sure won't be working in an office. I wonder what he's doing now.

 

He looks just like his mother and Ivan got his father’s looks.  They are full brothers

[tinkerbell]

To everyone in the Bachelor/ette franchise:

"Let's have a TOAST."   (not a Cheers)  

"We are TOASTING "  (not Cheersing) 

"HERE'S to love."  "Here's to good friends",  etc.   (Not cheers to) 

"Cheers!"  (while making eye contact with the other person and lifting your glass) 

[scrambled eggs]

3 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Tayshia really doesn’t get him.  It is all about her.  He has told her about his issues...

Yep. I just want to give Ben a hug. He's numbed himself to so much, and I don't think Tayshia understood at all what that's like. 

[Bluesky]

1 hour ago, Arkay said:

I am another who wondered if Ivan's brother was his half-brother, especially because his lovely father said he'd been married previously. Then Ivan or Gabe, I forget which, said that Ivan's the older brother, so I guess they are full brothers. I know it sounds judgmental but I would not be able to get over Gabe's tattoos. I despite tattoos but even my own daughter has a bunch. It's the specific prison tattoos, the gang tattoos, that I would fixate on. I know the teardrop and the dagger mean something, is it that the person killed someone? I pray not. Although Gabe was well-spoken and probably has changed dramatically, I personally could not choose Ivan because of his brother's symbolic tattoos. I'm sure that's wrong of me, because Ivan is not Gabe, but I know myself. 

Also, I am completely ignorant of the Food Network, and I did not know this friend Antonia was anyone, but I know it now thanks to my fellow posters here. She seemed like a good friend. I liked the sister. 

I am surprised she kept Ivan over Ben because I just didn't think she was actually all that into Ivan. When she's with Brendan I feel that she's really into him, but there's a passion with Zac that is more than she displays with anyone else. Thankfully Zac did not get those face tattoos when he was in his troubles, although I don't know if he was ever arrested.

I like Brendan but I wouldn't have started a hometown date with a child. It is just a different dynamic. I'm a mother, grandmother and aunt, and I taught school for 25 years. My life is all children. I just wouldn't bring a child along first. 

Zac was arrested for crack cocaine.   They tried to play it like his drug abuse was because of his brain tumor but it started early on with alcohol and adderal then hard drugs. The brain tumor gave him an excuse to get strong drugs like morphine.  He also admits to using heroin and snorting and smoking OxyContin.  
 

I would choose the clean cut hard working guy with a well paying job who happens to have a brother with prison tattoos over the serious drug addict who hasn’t been clean all that long.  

[Bluesky]

37 minutes ago, Blueberry Snobal said:

I know someone who served time in Angola, Louisiana’s state penitentiary. He had a tattoo on his face that looked like a small ink spot. He told me it signified that he had done hard time and was a way that other former inmates could recognize each other, almost like a badge of honor. He also told me that the teardrop tattoo means the person committed murder. I think Ivan’s brother is a very bad dude.

He should have those tear drops removed but they don’t typically mean murder.  They might be how many times they’ve been jailed. Others use it when they lose someone close to them.  Amy Winehouse had one.  Lil Wayne has them along with other artists and athletes.   
Hopefully his brother has it together now.  

[Irlandesa]

14 minutes ago, Bluesky said:

I would choose the clean cut hard working guy with a well paying job who happens to have a brother with prison tattoos over the serious drug addict who hasn’t been clean all that long.  

He posted on Instagram that the bank story that got him into rehab was in 2011.  Was there another stint? Because almost 10 years feels like a decent length of time. 

Otherwise, I agree with you that the brother wouldn't be a factor at all, especially considering how awesome his parents seem to be and considering what Ivan has chosen to do with his life.  There could be so many complicated and systemic reasons behind what happened with Ivan's brother. 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Irlandesa

[chocolatine]

The faux home town dates were more charming than I'd expected. Loved the Flintstones-style taxi cab. There's no way I would eat pizza in 120 degree heat though.

I was a little disappointed that none of the family members were very critical of "the process." Zac's brother and Ivan's mother both expressed concerns, but seemed to back off really quickly.

19 hours ago, Arkay said:

Ben saying that he doesn't understand how to cry is a little shocking, but along with not being able to tell Tayshia that he loves her, he seems to have learned to repress his emotions so they don't get away from him. This may be a coping mechanism he's developed after two suicide attempts. Somewhat the equivalent of the physical control he's mustered over his body, going from bulimic to a personal trainer.

I wonder if it's the other way around though, the fact that he's not able to process or express his emotions is what led (or contributed) to the suicide attempts. He said on his 1-on-1 date that his parents were perfectionists, plus he went to Westpoint and later served in the military, so it sounds like he's never been in an environment that encouraged the expression of emotions. That he still doesn't "understand the emotion behind crying" makes me worry for him. I hope he's in therapy and working on getting there.

I did love that he told Tayshia he's going to be fine. It may not be true, but he doesn't owe her anything more after she eliminated him.

The previews for next week's on-prem fantasy suite dates look interesting. It looks like one of them takes place in an Airstream.

Edited December 17, 2020 by chocolatine