S15.E19: Inherit the Earth

[7kstar]

Haven't watched but looks like it will be as bad as I feared.  But maybe I'll like it more that I'm forewarned that it will be bad. I'm afraid that Jensen's first instincts were spot on.  

The funny thing, the bar is low anyway.  Dabb said only 30% would like it.  So if that's all you want to please, well sounds like he was successful.  Maybe his score card for 30 is because he knows he can't get to 50.

[Pondlass1]

How fortunate that the archangel Lucifer happened to impregnated human Kelly who birthed Jack who aged in seconds but conveniently and inexplicably stopped aging around 20-25?  Otherwise we’d all be doomed. Dean and Sam too. 🙄🙄

The final episode of an epic series yet the Winchesters ended up not saving people at all (you know, the family business). Jackie poo did it all. 

[ILoveReading]

I don't think Covid was to blame.  Dabb said the overall story didn't really change.  They just had to do some tweaking over logistics because of restrictions. 

I liked the Winchesters wouldn't stay down.

I liked Dean scenes with Miracle and I felt something when he disappeared. Far more than when Cas died. 

As for the rest- I got nothing.  Because nothing literally happened.

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

He kinda appears to be, though, since he is live-tweeting throught it. Hasn't done that in years.

Is it really live tweeting when you make two tweets and than having nothing else to say so you pretend to start crying so you can't continue. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by ILoveReading

[Binns]

1 minute ago, Pondlass1 said:The final episode of an epic series yet the Winchesters ended up not saving people at all (you know, the family business). Jackie poo did it all. 

Just because they didn’t do the actual power suck doesn’t mean they didn’t save everyone. It was their idea and they executed it well. 

Looked like J2 broke character a bit at the very end...think that was Jared tearing up and not Sam. And Jensen comforting him. 

[Bergamot]

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

There was no soul or emotion in this episode. It was dull and utterly one-dimensional.

 

This is the best summation I've seen of the episode. The stakes could not possibly been higher: going up against God to save the entire world. But in the end there was nothing here that made me feel anything. (With the possible exception of Miracle the dog -- I really liked his scenes!) The Winchesters were always about making desperate, reckless impossible choices, and risking everything, and sacrificing more than they could possibly bear, and still finding a way to hope. This time their big contribution was, I don't know, being a good example to Jack so that he could save the world? It was like the very definition of being anticlimactic.

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

And the Winchesters go back to doing what exactly next week?

Good question! No Chuck or Amara, or any need to worry about what their plans are. No Michael or Lucifer, or apparently any problems with angels or demons in general. No Billie with a grudge against them. Unless Dabb wants to unwind some of this next week, the Winchesters really don't have much to do. I guess they probably will go on some small-time monster hunt and end up getting killed. Which, okay, I guess there could be worse ways for their story to end. But I have no confidence left that the show will do them justice.

[Gbb]

I’m honestly not sure what I think. I didn’t hate is as much as last week, but that’s an impossibly high bar for me.

Liked:

I liked that Sam & Dean had some agency this week and actually came up with a plan (even if it was a ridiculous plan that required Michael forget he’s fluent in Enochian).

I liked that they never stopped getting back up when Chuck was beating the crap out of them.

I liked Chuck’s line about how great it was not to know what happens next. 

Hated:

I hated that the series ends with Jack saving the day and not Sam & Dean.

I hated Jack’s cringy, Hallmark card “ I am in every drop of rain” monologue.

I hate that Jack didn’t bring Cas back.

I hate that Sam & Dean apparently have no purpose in life anymore.

I hate how pointless/empty it all felt. 

I’m going back to my series re-watch. I’m at the end of season 3/beginning of 4.  Now that was some high-tension, high-stakes, back-to-the-wall storytelling  

 

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Gbb

[shoetingstar]

15 minutes ago, 7kstar said:

Haven't watched but looks like it will be as bad as I feared.  But maybe I'll like it more that I'm forewarned that it will be bad. I'm afraid that Jensen's first instincts were spot on.  

The funny thing, the bar is low anyway.  Dabb said only 30% would like it.  So if that's all you want to please, well sounds like he was successful.  Maybe his score card for 30 is because he knows he can't get to 50.

He did? It will be interesting to gauge reactions. I think if you are a newer fan, this stuff doesn't bother you or not as much?? No shade.

1 hour ago, Wynne88 said:

Obviously I'm way in the minority here, but I liked it.  Everything folks have said above is true enough, but I guess I was watching it on a more superficial level.  Although the show started out being just about the Winchester brothers, it gradually became more of an ensemble show as Jensen and Jared pulled back on the hours they were willing to work and be away from their families.  Because of that, it didn't really bother me than so many characters had their fingers in the pie.  I would have had a hard time believing that human Sam and Dean could beat God themselves.

I also liked Jake Abel much better than back in Season 5; he's matured and his performance held a lot more weight.  I also thought Alex Calvert did a nice job tonight.  

I'm looking forward to next week.

I really enjoyed Jake Abel in this episode and seeing him back overal- gave a solid performance. When they did the close up of his face he really does look like he could be related to Dean and Sam.

37 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

Dabb said the theme of the ending - I'm guessing whereby the Winchesters are mostly entirely unnecessary to the world - stayed the same and that they only had to tweak the final two episodes (which I don't believe at all). But if Princess Jack going all Deus Ex Machina and the Winchesters standing around with their battered faces and thumbs up their collective asses was always the plan, no, I don't think Jensen would like that at all, for obvious reasons.

Showalter directed this episode, and he too remarked months ago that he thought it was disappointing - and he wasn't wrong. He blamed COVID for the episode being boring, assuming there was going to be some kind of battle they couldn't have. But overall I can easily see why Jensen would be unhappy. The brothers aren't the heroes at the end of their own damn story.

This was truly frustrating and no other Showrunner would have gone that direction.

Edited November 13, 2020 by shoetingstar

[PAForrest]

4 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

How fortunate that the archangel Lucifer happened to impregnated human Kelly who birthed Jack who aged in seconds but conveniently and inexplicably stopped aging around 20-25?  Otherwise we’d all be doomed. Dean and Sam too. 🙄🙄

The final episode of an epic series yet the Winchesters ended up not saving people at all (you know, the family business). Jackie poo did it all. 

I'll be honest and say even Jensen didn't look engaged - except when he was acting with Miracle, who was pretty much the best thing about the episode. But this episode was about as close to phoning it in as I've ever seen Jensen do. Maybe the whole pod shooting had a little to do with that. But given the fact that the brothers were pretty useless at the end of a 15 year run, maybe he couldn't get enthused.

I know it was like five+ months since the last episode, but the difference from 18 to 19, with the guys pretty much just showing up for this script was really noticeable to me.

[shoetingstar]

3 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

I'll be honest and say even Jensen didn't look engaged - except when he was acting with Miracle, who was pretty much the best thing about the episode. But this episode was about as close to phoning it in as I've ever seen Jensen do. Maybe the whole pod shooting had a little to do with that. But given the fact that the brothers were pretty useless at the end of a 15 year run, maybe he couldn't get enthused.

I know it was like five+ months since the last episode, but the difference from 18 to 19, with the guys pretty much just showing up for this script was really noticeable to me.

At least he looked good, as always! 🥵

 

[tessathereaper]

1 hour ago, Whodunnit said:

This episode was definitely more of a doggy whimper than a bang.

I liked Miracle the dog.

If anyone feels up to writing a story about him, (I love the irony of Dean being the one to get attached to a dog) I would probably read it.

(I naively believed he would actually be a plot device, but he was just the writers being jerks.)

Why would it be ironic?  Dean likes dogs.

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

Dabb said the theme of the ending - I'm guessing whereby the Winchesters are mostly entirely unnecessary to the world - stayed the same and that they only had to tweak the final two episodes (which I don't believe at all). But if Princess Jack going all Deus Ex Machina and the Winchesters standing around with their battered faces and thumbs up their collective asses was always the plan, no, I don't think Jensen would like that at all, for obvious reasons.

Showalter directed this episode, and he too remarked months ago that he thought it was disappointing - and he wasn't wrong. He blamed COVID for the episode being boring, assuming there was going to be some kind of battle they couldn't have. But overall I can easily see why Jensen would be unhappy. The brothers aren't the heroes at the end of their own damn story.

Maybe that was just Showalter's way of not saying "The writing really sucked", blame in on COVID but for anyone who watches it it's obvious what the problem really was.  The writing, starting from the top, showrunner on down.

[sarthaz]

Dafuq was that?

[sarthaz]

Dabb should go to prison. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

[Jediknight]

1 hour ago, Binns said:

Just because they didn’t do the actual power suck doesn’t mean they didn’t save everyone. It was their idea and they executed it well.

Yep, and without them Jack follows in Lucifer's footsteps.  Thanks to Sam, Dean, Cas, and Mary, he never wanted that.  He only wanted to be like those that he considered his true family, he wanted to help people.  I know I'm in the minority here when it comes to liking this.  When it came to Jack, the debate of nature vs nurture, wasn't even close.  Nature stood no chance when Dean, Sam, Cas, and Mary are the ones doing the nurturing.

It also played into the Winchesters' motto of "Screw destiny."  Their free will caused Cas to rebel and exercise his free will, and thanks to them Jack chose to be good by his own free will.  Free will crushed destiny.

They didn't kill a big monster at the end, and they didn't kill Chuck, but they saved everybody and are responsible for the win, just not in the glory way.  They did the heavy lifting for that moment to happen.

You are now free to punch me in the face for my take.

[SueB]

37 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

Yep, and without them Jack follows in Lucifer's footsteps.  Thanks to Sam, Dean, Cas, and Mary, he never wanted that.  He only wanted to be like those that he considered his true family, he wanted to help people.  I know I'm in the minority here when it comes to liking this.  When it came to Jack, the debate of nature vs nurture, wasn't even close.  Nature stood no chance when Dean, Sam, Cas, and Mary are the ones doing the nurturing.

It also played into the Winchesters' motto of "Screw destiny."  Their free will caused Cas to rebel and exercise his free will, and thanks to them Jack chose to be good by his own free will.  Free will crushed destiny.

They didn't kill a big monster at the end, and they didn't kill Chuck, but they saved everybody and are responsible for the win, just not in the glory way.  They did the heavy lifting for that moment to happen.

You are now free to punch me in the face for my take.

All excellent points.  
And it continues the theme of the Winchesters change people forever. 

[tennisgurl]

That...sure did happen I guess. What in the name of Chuck (Jack?) are they going to do for the actual finale next week? We already killed God and did the big ending montage, what else could we do? Will Same and Dean, perhaps maybe, get to be the main characters in their show again? Of course, that would be even more of a miracle than Miracle the very good boy. Not every show can say that their Cousin Oliver and new favorite pet didnt just save the day single handedly, but also ascended to godhood. I mean, your priorities are clear as ever Dabb like damn. 

I guess the most I can say about this episode is that there was stuff I liked in it, and that it wasnt horrible to the point that it retroactively ruined the series like some other series finales (or at least the apparent ending of the main arc) and that is probably better than I expected. I liked Sam and Dean getting up over and over when Chuck was beating them up, which is pretty much been their MO since the show started, I thought the ending for Chuck was a suitable punishment for him, I like that Dean refused to be the killer that Chuck wanted him to be, clearly thinking about the speech Cas gave him before he died about how he is more than a killer, the ending with everyone coming back again was pretty nice, and I admit that I actually caught some feels from the ending montage, seeing so many great moments from the shows past and so many characters from throughout the show, it was the first real part that felt like a series finale and a celebration of the shows long history, I might have even teared up. Of course, maybe I felt feels being reminded how good this show used to be before it became a shallow shell of its former self, and how many good characters died horrible and pointless deaths for the sake of cheap drama, especially as the show went on. Oh, and Dean got a dog, even if it was just for a few minutes, which was just the best thing ever. Chuck really is the truest evil, he teased me with the prospect of seeing Dean with a cute pet dog, and then he took it away from me! You monster!

However, those few good things are really drowned out by the whimper this show went out on. Yeah I know that COVID hurt things, and maybe they could have brought more guest stars back or had more action on other circumstances, but the basic crappy plot would presumably still have happened. After everything that Sam and Dean have been though, their destinies and everything that they have suffered due to being manipulated by this powerful forces and fighting them tooth and nail to get to live their own lives, they ended up just serving as Jacks cheerleaders and nothing else. I just cant believe how this show just tossed away the shows main characters to focus on Jack, to the point that he ends up being the one to stop Chuck, save the world, and even achieves godhood! Despite Sam and Dean being the center of like thirty prophesies, plus all of the stuff they have just gotten involved in on their own, being angels and demons and dying and coming back and being destined to do all of this show, they ended up just being minor players who existed to be decent role models to a superpowered teen. The whole ending was just so dull and anticlimactic. Jack gets a poorly explained power up, he grabs Chuck, and that's that. You would think that killing and replacing GOD would be a bit more exciting. 

Seriously, what will they do next week? Whatever, not getting my hopes up for anything more exciting. 

[Aeryn13]

40 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

Yep, and without them Jack follows in Lucifer's footsteps.  Thanks to Sam, Dean, Cas, and Mary, he never wanted that.  He only wanted to be like those that he considered his true family, he wanted to help people.  I know I'm in the minority here when it comes to liking this.  When it came to Jack, the debate of nature vs nurture, wasn't even close.  Nature stood no chance when Dean, Sam, Cas, and Mary are the ones doing the nurturing.

It also played into the Winchesters' motto of "Screw destiny."  Their free will caused Cas to rebel and exercise his free will, and thanks to them Jack chose to be good by his own free will.  Free will crushed destiny.

They didn't kill a big monster at the end, and they didn't kill Chuck, but they saved everybody and are responsible for the win, just not in the glory way.  They did the heavy lifting for that moment to happen.

You are now free to punch me in the face for my take.

My problem with Jack is that he was never portrayed as anything but a cutesy Stu. Even when they tried to do "dark" things with him, he gave Bambi eyes and the writing screamed "awww, poor baby".

He also ate the entire show for Seasons. So it almost feels fitting making him the new God because it is Dabb's cadre meta-crowing how his cardboard cutout character is the biggest, bestest, most important thing in the history of ever.

If God was too big a villain for the Winchesters to grant a victory to, then don't tackle it. What they  "did" here felt super anticlimactic.

[tessathereaper]

53 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

Yep, and without them Jack follows in Lucifer's footsteps.  Thanks to Sam, Dean, Cas, and Mary, he never wanted that.  He only wanted to be like those that he considered his true family, he wanted to help people.  I know I'm in the minority here when it comes to liking this.  When it came to Jack, the debate of nature vs nurture, wasn't even close.  Nature stood no chance when Dean, Sam, Cas, and Mary are the ones doing the nurturing.

It also played into the Winchesters' motto of "Screw destiny."  Their free will caused Cas to rebel and exercise his free will, and thanks to them Jack chose to be good by his own free will.  Free will crushed destiny.

They didn't kill a big monster at the end, and they didn't kill Chuck, but they saved everybody and are responsible for the win, just not in the glory way.  They did the heavy lifting for that moment to happen.

You are now free to punch me in the face for my take.

No punches. 🙂 However, this time Dean and Sam were BOTH "wind beneath my winged" instead of just Dean like in Swan Song.   I didn't like those reasons when they were given for Dean in Swan Song, don't really like it any better now when it's both of them.

[catrox14]

Man, that was so dumb.

[Terese]

1 hour ago, sarthaz said:

Dabb should go to prison. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

You know, there is both merit and precedent in you say. Film is art, art is protected. You can't colorize black and white film, paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa, or retcon and otherwise diminish a good story and its. characters .  Throw in a class action lawsuit for pain and suffering and nail his ass.

[Terese]

54 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

My problem with Jack is that he was never portrayed as anything but a cutesy Stu. Even when they tried to do "dark" things with him, he gave Bambi eyes and the writing screamed "awww, poor baby".

He also ate the entire show for Seasons. So it almost feels fitting making him the new God because it is Dabb's cadre meta-crowing how his cardboard cutout character is the biggest, bestest, most important thing in the history of ever.

If God was too big a villain for the Winchesters to grant a victory to, then don't tackle it. What they  "did" here felt super anticlimactic.

Dabb bailed on Sam and Dean, literally, the moment Jack was conceived. Chuck was villainized as early as season 12 episode 4. This was the only plan, as they painfully, obviously bulldozed towards the finish line.

[Smad]

To quote Crowley: Well this was an utter dog's breakfast.

Not more to say to this crapfest.

[Aeryn13]

1 hour ago, tessathereaper said:

No punches. 🙂 However, this time Dean and Sam were BOTH "wind beneath my winged" instead of just Dean like in Swan Song.   I didn't like those reasons when they were given for Dean in Swan Song, don't really like it any better now when it's both of them.

I admit I would have hated it way more if it only had been Dean again. But it is such a blah ending.

I was never convinced by any of the contortions to made it seem like Dean had an important role in 5.22. But honestly even that had more merit to me than what the Winchesters were reduced to here, at the big climax of their story. I can't even squint and twist myself into a pretzel to believe they mattered.

[BoxManLocke]

I thought it was... okay ?

 

I mean considering the plot this season had been absolute garbage all along I didn't expect some sudden flash of brillance to close things up. But at least it did close things up.

 

Don't get me wrong, the writing was mediocre at best especially towards the end with the giant exposition dump at like the most crucial moment of the episode, followed with Jack's corny-ass goodbye monologue. Also the acting at the beginning from everyone ; what the hell was that ? Super rough.

I fully expected Lucifer to have one last showing ; it's just BuckLeming doing this for themselves. Whatever, wasn't that long.

 

Mostly I liked that things are neatly tied up and the show can finally concentrate on Sam and Dean for the last time after neglecting them for years ; no excuse this time. That's just what I was hoping for.

 

[Terese]

21 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I admit I would have hated it way more if it only had been Dean again. But it is such a blah ending.

I was never convinced by any of the contortions to made it seem like Dean had an important role in 5.22. But honestly even that had more merit to me than what the Winchesters were reduced to here, at the big climax of their story. I can't even squint and twist myself into a pretzel to believe they mattered.

They were bait fisherman put on hooks to catch the fish. They were the stall tactic, until the hero arrives. They were the marble under the cup in a shill game that God was too stupid to follow. 

[Aeryn13]

You know the episode was lame and a blah ending legacy-wise but I would almost prefer now if it WAS the wrap up. They did the montage at the end and everything. 

I can only cringe on how Badd will screw up what's left.

[Bergamot]

8 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

Dean and Sam did nothing. Well, Dean drove. Why couldn’t the writers have let us the audience in on the plan to at least build some suspense?  The Nep Duo are way too keen on story telling via exposition.

Generally I don't care for the kind of story where you go back and see what was really happening all along, instead of what appeared to be happening. Especially in a case like this, where seeing what really happened gives us no insights or revelations about the two main characters themselves. It's like the writers were saying, "It was really interesting to watch the good guys figure out Jack was a "power vacuum" and that MIchael still wanted his father's approval, and how they felt about these things. It was fascinating to watch them come up with a plan to fool Chuck and accept the risks and work to carry it out, and see their interactions. But we're not going to show you any of these things, so you'll just have to take our word for it!"

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Bergamot

[Terese]

31 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

You know the episode was lame and a blah ending legacy-wise but I would almost prefer now if it WAS the wrap up. They did the montage at the end and everything. 

I can only cringe on how Badd will screw up what's left.

Sadly, they crucified Kripke/Chuck and replaced him with Dabb/Jack. Unfortunately, I am afraid they have yet another nail for the proverbial coffin. Sam and Dean haven't been diminished, thoroughly. Without Chuck's or Jack's divine intervention or answering of prayers, don't the Winchesters have to go to the hospital for burns from hot pans of water, or severe lactose intolerance? Or maybe they accidentally stab themselves to death while picking a lock?

[Bergamot]

3 hours ago, BoxManLocke said:

Mostly I liked that things are neatly tied up and the show can finally concentrate on Sam and Dean for the last time after neglecting them for years ; no excuse this time. That's just what I was hoping for.

 

How sad is it though, that apparently the only way this could be accomplished, was to remove from the story every adversary, every source of conflict, every challenge to be faced, and every obstacle to be surmounted? All right! Now let's get back to the story of the Winchesters! Uh, that's really great, I guess?

Edited November 13, 2020 by Bergamot

[The Companion]

5 hours ago, Jediknight said:

Yep, and without them Jack follows in Lucifer's footsteps.  Thanks to Sam, Dean, Cas, and Mary, he never wanted that.  He only wanted to be like those that he considered his true family, he wanted to help people.  I know I'm in the minority here when it comes to liking this.  When it came to Jack, the debate of nature vs nurture, wasn't even close.  Nature stood no chance when Dean, Sam, Cas, and Mary are the ones doing the nurturing.

It also played into the Winchesters' motto of "Screw destiny."  Their free will caused Cas to rebel and exercise his free will, and thanks to them Jack chose to be good by his own free will.  Free will crushed destiny.

They didn't kill a big monster at the end, and they didn't kill Chuck, but they saved everybody and are responsible for the win, just not in the glory way.  They did the heavy lifting for that moment to happen.

You are now free to punch me in the face for my take.

I honestly like the take and think the bones of a satisfying story are in there. I just think the execution was terrible. You have to sort of dig for that story and tilt your head. 

[ILoveReading]

5 hours ago, Jediknight said:

Yep, and without them Jack follows in Lucifer's footsteps. 

Would he have though?  At the start of s13, Sam was using Jack and Dean was down right hostile and Cas was dead.  So basically his formative first few months we not exactly supportive.  It seems like Jack's fate was sealed the minute Clark offered him candy.

Also according to Chuck he wrote the Winchesters story.  They didn't have free will until he died.    There was no rules or any rhyme or reason to what Chuck controlled and what he didn't.  So did Chuck write the Winchesters being nice to Jack?  Doesn't this mean Chuck actually stopped him from following in Lucifer's footsteps?

The whole thing was a confusing muddled mess. 

[starfishka]

That was ... stupid. This season was really unnecessary.

[gonzosgirrl]

31 minutes ago, The Companion said:

I honestly like the take and think the bones of a satisfying story are in there. I just think the execution was terrible. You have to sort of dig for that story and tilt your head. 

Oh yeah, this will be the arguement from Dabb and his sycofans.  Y'all just to dumb to understand appreciate the brilliance.  

That 30% he was talking about must be the Mensa portion of the fandom.  And the Alex Calvert fans.

 

[BoxManLocke]

40 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

How sad is it though, that apparently the only way this could be accomplished, was to remove from the story every adversary, every source of conflict, every challenge to be faced, and every obstacle to be surmounted? All right! Now let's get back to the story of the Winchesters! Uh, that's really great, I guess?

 

It does suck, but it's been that way since Dabb took over.

I guess I've reached the acceptance stage. I'm just happy we get something before saying goodbye.

 

On another note, how did you guys like the super obnoxious music we got throughout the episode ? Really finishes the bootleg Supernatural experience.

Edited November 13, 2020 by BoxManLocke

[Aeryn13]

5 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

 

It does suck, but it's been that way since Dabb took over.

I guess I've reached the acceptance stage. I'm just happy we get something before saying goodbye.

 

On another note, how did you guys like the super obnoxious music we got throughout the episode ? Really finishes the bootleg Supernatural experience.

I thought the music was blergh. And the montage itself disappointing. I don't think the clips chosen or how they flowed and edited together meant much. Seemed pretty random. I have seen way better montages in other shows and on this show fanmade ones on youtube.

[bettername2come]

All right, nice things first:

1. Good revenge in leaving Chuck human and stuck living instead of being destroyed by the Winchesters. Fitting revenge.

2. Dog.

3. The horror of being the only ones left on earth.

4. The desperation caused by having no one left to save, not even the dog. Good characterization for the boys and a solid evil plan. 

5. Sam and Dean just constantly getting back up no matter how many times Chuck knocked them down. 

6. Remembering Adam exists and Dean acknowledging that guy never gets a break. Hope he got brought back to life when others snapped back since he was separated from Michael.

7. Impala on country roads montage.

Dislike:

1. Falling for Satan’s fakeout.

2. Super Jack.

3. Exposition.

4. Didn’t get to see all my favorites snap back. 

5. Biggest battle yet being boring and not even the Winchesters’ win.

 I do hope next week is better but I have no idea what’s gonna happen. I don’t know how much it’s going to be different from what was planned or if what was originally planned would’ve been any better. I do think we’ll get a happy ending which for so long I thought was impossible. There’s actually gonna be peace when they’re done!

Edited November 13, 2020 by bettername2come

[Castiels Cat]

29 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Oh yeah, this will be the arguement from Dabb and his sycofans.  Y'all just to dumb to understand appreciate the brilliance.  

That 30% he was talking about must be the Mensa portion of the fandom.  And the Alex Calvert fans.

 

I was asked to be in Mensa and declined.

I hated it. 

My estimation is that he needs to move the decimal point to the left.

[BoxManLocke]

23 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I thought the music was blergh. And the montage itself disappointing. I don't think the clips chosen or how they flowed and edited together meant much. Seemed pretty random. I have seen way better montages in other shows and on this show fanmade ones on youtube.

 

Yeah, ironically, the montage felt like the opening credits to a lame show like the one they parodied in Changing Channels.

[Castiels Cat]

35 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Would he have though?  At the start of s13, Sam was using Jack and Dean was down right hostile and Cas was dead.  So basically his formative first few months we not exactly supportive.  It seems like Jack's fate was sealed the minute Clark offered him candy.

Also according to Chuck he wrote the Winchesters story.  They didn't have free will until he died.    There was no rules or any rhyme or reason to what Chuck controlled and what he didn't.  So did Chuck write the Winchesters being nice to Jack?  Doesn't this mean Chuck actually stopped him from following in Lucifer's footsteps?

The whole thing was a confusing muddled mess. 

There were unscripted moments. It's canon that Dean goes of script. He went off script by not shooting Sam and that set off a bunch of actions that Chuck didn't write including Death sending Exploding Jack to the Empty.

8 hours ago, Binns said:

Just because they didn’t do the actual power suck doesn’t mean they didn’t save everyone. It was their idea and they executed it well. 

Looked like J2 broke character a bit at the very end...think that was Jared tearing up and not Sam. And Jensen comforting him. 

Yep. That was the Winchesters plan.

[Castiels Cat]

9 hours ago, PAForrest said:

Dabb said the theme of the ending - I'm guessing whereby the Winchesters are mostly entirely unnecessary to the world - stayed the same and that they only had to tweak the final two episodes (which I don't believe at all). But if Princess Jack going all Deus Ex Machina and the Winchesters standing around with their battered faces and thumbs up their collective asses was always the plan, no, I don't think Jensen would like that at all, for obvious reasons.

Showalter directed this episode, and he too remarked months ago that he thought it was disappointing - and he wasn't wrong. He blamed COVID for the episode being boring, assuming there was going to be some kind of battle they couldn't have. But overall I can easily see why Jensen would be unhappy. The brothers aren't the heroes at the end of their own damn story.

I just blasted through 2 seasons of the Boys. That is not boring.

[PAForrest]

34 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

My estimation is that he needs to move the decimal point to the left.

Yeah, while Dabb's fans are loud on twitter and tumblr, there is no way they comprise 30% of the overall viewing audience, because online fandom doesn't comprise 30% of the viewing audience. When you break it down, it's not even a fraction of that. And I don't believe 30% of that fraction wanted only a Jacknatural ending - Dean and Sam Winchester Who?

Dabb has made it clear since he took over that he was not a fan of the Winchesters, he was only interested in using Kripke's 'verse to spin off something of his own. And when that failed like a thing that fails miserably, he essentially scorched the earth of that universe that was never his to claim. Dean and Sam Winchester, and Castiel too, paid the heaviest price for that scorching considering Dabb spent the last two years telling us the Winchesters weren't special and nothing they did mattered because they didn't do it on their own.

No viewer should have to tilt their head, cross their eyes, and give themselves a migraine to try and salvage something from a pretty on-the-nose one-dimensional script that made it clear a white bread incel showrunner insert was always intended to be the only hero of a show that was, again, not his to own or ruin. Jacknatural was entirely unearned, and no cheesy shoved-in montage at the end will ever make up for Dean and Sam being worthless. Seriously, the Js didn't have to go to Canada for that - they could have zoomed in their parts.

45 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

Yeah, ironically, the montage felt like the opening credits to a lame show like the one they parodied in Changing Channels.

Looks like the money Jensen claimed they were saving for music to use at the end was even less than he let on. Yes, the music was embarrassingly bad. Like the episode. So in that sense, it sadly fit like a glove.

[bethy]

Hm. I may actually watch this one. Not actively offensive and Dean with a dog? Okay.

[gonzosgirrl]

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Man, that was so dumb.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[Aeryn13]

I also wasn't feeling a lot of the acting choices here. I thought Jake Abel was good in the church scene but later on not so much. 

Alex Calvert half-dopey, half-smug smile once he became "God" was IMO just grating. It looked like Jack was perma-high on himself. Guess an realistic depiction of meta-Dabb.

Wasn't loving some of Jensen's acting choices either. Nor Jared's.

Rob Benedict had extremely weak material. He could pull off the pathetic just fine, not the menacing though.

Pellegrino did his typical shtick. The problem with the Lucy cameo was just how pointless it was. Honestly, that is something Singer's wife should get over in therapy or marriage counseling, it's disturbing at this point.

The new Death was terrible. No gravitas, nothing. They cheapened Death now literally on this show.

[gonzosgirrl]

2 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Rob Benedict had extremely weak material.

If you played a drinking game every time he said the word "guys" you'd be... dead now.

Guys, stay down. Stay down, guys. Guys, stay down. GUYS! GUYS STAY DOWN GUYS!!!

Guys? Guys, wait. Guys, guys wait. GUYS? Wait, guys. GUYS! WAIT! GUYS.

 

[The Companion]

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

 

 

The scene was just SO weird. They couldn’t throw in a line that their people were back? I assume they want to save it for next week, but it sorta made it look like they weren't at all worried about any of their friends. Between that and actively ignoring Cas's death in the scene with Jack, the entire end of the episode was off. 

Also, there for a minute in a moment of boredom and hysteria, I wondered what would happen to the internet if they just kept making ships canon by having the guys kiss. Like, no thanks, but a tiny part if me just wants to watch the internet burn itself down. 😆

I am growing increasingly convinced Castiel comes back next week because they failed to address it and foreclose the possibility in this episode. Then again, we are sort of always stuck with the same question: intentional or bad writitng?

[gonzosgirrl]

3 minutes ago, The Companion said:

<snip>

I am growing increasingly convinced Castiel comes back next week because they failed to address it and foreclose the possibility in this episode. Then again, we are sort of always stuck with the same question: intentional or bad writitng?

I am convinced Dean dies in a milk-run hunt next week and Castiel will come back to grip him tight and raise him to Heaven, because there is no trope too trite, no fan-service too cheesy, no opportunity to fuck Dean/Jensen over, that Badd can resist.

[Hana Chan]

If anything, this episode confirms that the quality of the show diminishes badly when the focus is off of Sam and Dean. They are the heart of the show and whenever the writers had tried to give too much focus to supporting players, the results are lackluster. Knowing that Jack would go to to eventually be the one to defeat Chuck (because, let's be serious, for two mortals to do it would be a bit silly) didn't bother me because Jack felt more like a plot device than an actual character most of the time. It also highlighted a general and possibly unavoidable weakness of the series. With each season the Big Bad got even worse and all powerful and having supernaturally powered characters to do some of the heavy lifting and leave the leads looking superfluous in their own series. The show always was its absolute best when Sam and Dean were front and center.

Still, I wasn't bothered by this episode. In the end, Sam and Dean managed to defeat Chuck by outsmarting him. They weren't going to win by fighting them directly but were able to do so by using their knowledge and determination to fight. They knew their enemy and his weaknesses and managed to put one over on him. Jack, in the end, was the weapon that they chose to use. And given that they (along with Castiel and Mary) were the greatest influences over Jack all his life, it's not a surprise that his outlook on the world matches theirs. Unlike Chuck, who got full of himself and used all of creation for his own entertainment, Jack is just going to let things be. Free will, for good or ill, will reign supreme.

And I'm more than content with the episode ending with Sam and Dean finally free of destiny. Their lives are their own now and while their futures will always be shaped by their traumatic pasts, they don't have to worry about supernatural beings pulling their strings all the time. I enjoyed the montague that looked at all the influences in their lives that got them to this place and got reminded of a lot of wonderful moments that kept me invested in this show. Now that the mytharc is finished, the final episode can put the spotlight squarely on Dean, Sam, Jensen and Jared. After 15 seasons, they deserve nothing less.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Hana Chan

[BabySpinach]

I think the only thing I'm truly angry and frustrated about is Amara's fate. Given her character and the themes of her story, I can't imagine a more insulting end than stewing for the rest of eternity in Mayonnaise Boy's guts. She was far more interesting and enjoyable and compelling than he ever was, and she ends up being transferred from Chuck to Jack like a blood transfusion. Didn't she really enjoy her life in Reno? Trying new things? Loving humanity (especially Dean, whose bond with her had nothing to do with Chuck)? Why the hell would she ever be content to forfeit her own agency and personhood to be subsumed forever by some mediocre three-year-old manchild?

I just can't wrap my head around this. It's too depressing to think that Amara's incredible power, hard-won freedom, and self-actualization amounted to nothing.

Edited November 13, 2020 by BabySpinach

[Bobcatkitten]

I'm going with a solid "eh." I didn't hate it but I certainly didn't love it. There was so much standing around and talking in the first half. And Mark P - ENOUGH!

I try to focus on the positive and I saw the end as the Winchesters outsmarting God - they used their brains and brawn to execute a plan. Yes, ultimately they needed Jack's power but they often over the years have needed help, whether from Bobby or Charlie or Ellen or Crowley etc. 

 

One thing that made ZERO sense was them not saying a word about bringing back Cas. It was a hole that you could put an aircraft carrier through. And also they didn't mention whether all the people God had vanished were alive - like say Eileen and Jody and Donna? 

[The Companion]

4 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

I think the only thing I'm truly angry and frustrated about is Amara's fate. Given her character and the themes of her story, I can't imagine a more insulting end than stewing for the rest of eternity in Mayonnaise Boy's guts. She was far more interesting and enjoyable and compelling than he ever was, and she ends up being transferred from Chuck to Jack like a blood transfusion. Didn't she really enjoy her life in Reno? Trying new things? Loving humanity (especially Dean)? Why the hell would she ever be content to lose her own agency and personhood to be subsumed forever by some mediocre, bland three-year-old? 

I just can't wrap my head around this. It's too depressing to think that Amara's power, hard-won freedom, and self-actualization amounted to nothing.

Agreed. She was trapped by her brother for centuries, finally saw some good in the world and then was convinced by her shitty brother that everything was trash (with no perspective) and trapped again.