S04.E08: The Nadir

[paigow]

Loy plays with fire, Josto wears his heart on his sleeve, Oraetta makes a surprising discovery and Deafy closes in on Zelmare and Swanee.

Airdate: Nov 8 /20

[Suzysite]

Well, there goes the theory that Swanee is Hanzee's mother.

It's a shame about Deafy.  He was probably my favorite.

[The Wild Sow]

Holy Shit - soooo much happening! And so much explained.

[LadyintheLoop]

Yes. Little Oraetta was the victim of her mother's Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy, and Oweny Milligan's history of sodomy was included for a reason. No wonder Josto was spitting out the Irish whiskey.

Zelmare's going to go after Loy now, right?

[paigow]

The Fadda perimeter is surpassed only by CTU!

K.C. cops failed to win a 20 v 2 and missed every shot

[ElectricBoogaloo]

RIP Raylan Givens, the most interesting character this season. 

[paigow]

On 11/9/2020 at 12:32 AM, LadyintheLoop said:

Zelmare's going to go after Loy now, right?

If the Cannon crew guards their boss with the same skill level as the bookmaking operation, Loy is a dead man walking.

Edited November 10, 2020 by paigow

[Irlandesa]

I think this is the first episode I found genuinely interesting this season and one that almost made sense.  I'm still disconnected from most of this season and the mob wars so I couldn't fully enjoy it as I feel like I'm lacking a lot of context.

[Blakeston]

9 hours ago, paigow said:

The Fadda perimeter is surpassed only by CTU!

K.C. cops failed to win a 20 v 2 and missed every shot

And they all (except for Deafy and Odis) apparently filed down the same staircase at the same time, without knowing where the women were. Brilliant tactics all around!

[LadyintheLoop]

Quote

K.C. cops failed to win a 20 v 2 and missed every shot

And apparently every bullet fired by the 2 hit a vital spot.

Maybe Oraetta will tell Josto, "You owe me! I tried to kill Dr. Harvard for you! Just like I killed your father!"

[Ottis]

So the bad guys keep falling up, and the good guys keep going down? Who was the group that attacked Josto's place by boat ... the NY gang?

 

[Gimmick Genius]

4 minutes ago, Ottis said:

? Who was the group that attacked Josto's place by boat ... the NY gang?

 

The Fargo gang! And c'mon -- Oraetta hadn't looked into her closet of trophies until NOW!? How many days (or weeks) has it been since Ethelrida was there?

[Eulipian 5k]

17 minutes ago, Gimmick Genius said:

And c'mon -- Oraetta hadn't looked into her closet of trophies until NOW!? How many days (or weeks) has it been since Ethelrida was there?

She's not the maid. Of course she was in the room earlier to get Dr Harvard's "special macaroon sauce", but this time she was clearing out the closet when she found the notebook.

[Kiddvideo]

2 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

She's not the maid. Of course she was in the room earlier to get Dr Harvard's "special macaroon sauce", but this time she was clearing out the closet when she found the notebook.

The book was right there, for christ's sake. She's awfully loosey-goosey with her Trophy Closet of Death. And because it bugs me: The light was already on when she opened the door. Did Dr. Harvard's secretary not tell anyone Orietta was with the Dr. when he collapsed?

The Fargo guys had automatic weapons, but Gaetano defeats them -- indeed kills at least 2 from a distance -- with two handguns.

What a waste of the Timothy Olyphant fan club. Eating carrots and giving Hawley's version of Shakespearian monologues isn't a very interesting character. He hadn't trusted Odis, but he puts himself in a position where he lets Odis kill him. I'm happy Swanee's gone. 

And next week we get the tornado. I'm just finishing the series at this point. I want a drama with complicated human behaviors, and this is more of a science thriller to me.

[thuganomics85]

Wasn't too surprised over Deafy's exit, since I figured Timothy Olyphant only being a guest actor meant the character was on borrowed time, and I knew that there was way more to Odis' phone call with Loy than he was letting on.  Still, there goes the second of the three characters that I actually like (it's all on you now, Rabbi!), so that sadden me very much.  At least Olyphant made the most of it.  Hopefully he'll be on more Mandalorian episodes this year.  And maybe, just maybe, some other show will snap him back up as a regular or lead, because I'm all for Olyphant to be unleashed onto more shows!

A lot of action here, but wow, apparently a lot of people can't shoot for shit, with the entire police force getting owned by two criminals (not to mention a ton of innocents caught in the crossfire), and dozens of Fargo gang members fleeing from one Gaetano.  At least Swanee gets taken off the board, but I'm guessing Zelmare escaping will have major consequences for everyone involved.

The Deafy/Loy scene was probably the best Chris Rock has been on this show so far, in my opinion.

Strangely, I can actually buy that Loy's plan to pit Gaetano and Jotso against each other backfired, because Gaetano is looney enough to actually respect that Jotso tried to let him die.  And I'm guessing their mother getting killed will actually make them even closer.

I also liked the scene between Dibrell and Loy's wife.

Mayflower failed to kill the doctor and now finally finds out that Ethelrida knows about her serial killer ways and tried to rat her out.  Maybe this will finally go somewhere.

 

[paigow]

48 minutes ago, Kiddvideo said:

And next week we get the tornado. 

Rabbi & Satchel get transported to Oz, the Cannon crew finds Calamita crushed under a house...

[Lonesome Rhodes]

9 minutes ago, paigow said:

Rabbi & Satchel get transported to Oz, the Cannon crew finds Calamita crushed under a house...

Will we get fishes falling from the sky, or cats and dogs?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Gaetano: I had no respect for my brother until he tried to make a deal to have me murdered!

[paigow]

3 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Will we get fishes falling from the sky, or cats and dogs?

Since this episode paid homage to The Untouchables, next week will be Twister - cows and tractors

[shapeshifter]

59 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Strangely, I can actually buy that Loy's plan to pit Gaetano and Jotso against each other backfired, because Gaetano is looney enough to actually respect that Jotso tried to let him die.  And I'm guessing their mother getting killed will actually make them even closer

But Loy had a backup plan (“Fargo!”). 
So if we’re taking bets, I’m guessing the Loys have it over the Faddas. 
Oraetta is still a wild card, but now both she and Josto have been identified as damaged goods. It was almost sad that they could have found love together. But just almost. I guess it’s just a matter of how much damage each of them can inflict on those around them before they self destruct or implode. 

[SoMuchTV]

Help me out - where did Oraetta end up at the end?  I know she was packing her bags. There was a woman on the stairs at the train station whose posture/walk seemed a lot like hers. Were we supposed to assume that was her, or coincidence?

[tennisgurl]

So we learn this week that no one in this whole town can shoot for shit except for Odis apparently, and he can only hit people right next to him when they arent expecting it. While this season is still leaving me colder than most of the past seasons, I am getting a lot more interested in the show now, I feel like things are actually happening. I am still struggling to connect with most of the characters (most of them are varying degrees of awful) but at least the story itself is getting more interesting. 

Apparently Oraetta's murderous tendencies probably started due to her mothers abuse, which does certainly explain a lot. Interestingly, I think that Josto picked up on the subtext of what Oraetta was saying with her mom, even as she was denying it, and he was actually trying to sympathize with her and reach out a bit when he talked about the horrible things that Owney did to him when he was a ward/hostage as a child, but she put a stop to that conversation right away. Oraetta really just lives in her own bizarre little world. You know, this whole "trade a kid" thing never seems to end very well for anyone, maybe its time to find a different way to keep the peace without kids being killed or traumatized who grow up to kill and traumatize more people and on and on. 

Of course Gaetano if the kind of guy who realizes that his brother killed a child to get him killed, and that makes him finally respect his brother. Now that the two of them are on the same page, and their mom has been killed by a stray bullet (because everyone got their shooting lessons from the Imperial Army) there is no telling what they will do next. 

I figured that Deafy wouldn't make it, but I feel like he was rather wasted. He hardly even really got to do anything other than give a bunch of Fargo speeches, which, at least he is way better at them than most of the rest of the cast.

[Crashcourse]

How many more episodes of this shit?  I might as well watch 'til the end since I've gone this far.

[SunnyBeBe]

The ladies could have easily gone undetected in the train station, if they had gone incognito and traveled separately.  I guess outlaws don’t go that route. 

Was Odis killed or just wounded?

Why would being large cause people to run away and not shoot you? Referring to Josto’s brother. He had 2 guns, but still was outnumbered. 

[madmax]

This season isn't nearly as compelling as previous ones, even #3, which was just OK.  And with the loss of Raylan Bullock, I don't even have anything invested anymore.  But I will continue because I'm a glutton for punishment.

Whatever happened to Ziro (?), the hostage held by the Loys?  Do they still have him?  Was he thrown into the street?  Was he killed?

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Oral-etta is a veritable preying mantis.  Josto is only alive, imo, because she is sane enough to fear Fadda retribution.

[shapeshifter]

37 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Why would being large cause people to run away and not shoot you? Referring to Josto’s brother. He had 2 guns, but still was outnumbered. 

Gaetano (Josto's brother) is kind of a magical-realism sort of character.
Well, I guess that could be said of most of them, but Gaetano more so.

Since Josto has *reasons* for hating the Irish, I would guess Rabbi Milligan has always noticed that the way Josto looks at him means he's expendable,
but I have lost track of the finer points of the relationships between the various gangsters. 
I have always preferred shows that air one episode at a time so we can discuss without spoilers, but this season of Fargo may be the exception to my rule in that I think I would have gotten more out of it by binging a few at a time.
Or I should have just watched each episode twice, which, to be fair, with it being carried on Hulu, would be very easy to do, especially with a dearth of new fall shows in this time of Corona. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I watch most of these episodes twice due to losing focus from disinterest and missing stuff in dark lighting.  It’s never as good as I imagine. 

[SoMuchTV]

38 minutes ago, madmax said:

Whatever happened to Ziro (?), the hostage held by the Loys?  Do they still have him?  Was he thrown into the street?  Was he killed?

I was wondering that as well.  Did I miss something?

[LittleIggy]

Deafy should be glad he was murdered because he probably would have been shit-canned for bungling the arrest of Zelmare and Swanee. Besides the cops killed there appeared to be dozens in collateral damage. 
I thought Gaetano was a boss going guns blazing on those Fargo boys. Poor mom. ☹️
Who was the spectre that Zelmare and Swanee saw?

Still enjoying the season. ::ducks:: 😏

[The Wild Sow]

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Apparently Oraetta's murderous tendencies probably started due to her mothers abuse, which does certainly explain a lot. Interestingly, I think that Josto picked up on the subtext of what Oraetta was saying with her mom, even as she was denying it, and he was actually trying to sympathize with her and reach out a bit when he talked about the horrible things that Owney did to him when he was a ward/hostage as a child, but she put a stop to that conversation right away.

Yeah. I wonder if she actually knows what was going on with her mom, or eventually figured it out? And if so, wonder if her mother was her first victim?

And those choking/smothering/breath play scenes? Absolutely scare the heck out of me!  Safe, sane, consensual kink is great for those who like it - and how nice to meet someone whose kinks match your own. But breath play is never safe nor sane! Don’t do it. In the words of Dan Savage, a Fetish Too Far. 

I have a feeling she’s going to end up accidentally killing Josto. 

As for little Ziro? Loy was watching him brush his teeth, all the while twisting  a rope like he was planning to garrote the poor kid. And then he turned away and didn’t go through with it.  (Shades of Antoon there.) As far as I know, the Cannons still have him.

[roughing it]

On 11/8/2020 at 10:32 PM, LadyintheLoop said:

Yes. Little Oraetta was the victim of her mother's Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy, and Oweny Milligan's history of sodomy was included for a reason. No wonder Josto was spitting out the Irish whiskey.

Wow I missed this.  I zone out during those long soliloquys.  I'll have to rewatch.

[Cotypubby]

On 11/9/2020 at 8:01 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Was Odis killed or just wounded?

I don’t think either. Whatshername ran into him when he tried to shoot her and knocked him to the ground, but she didn’t have any weapons. I think he was just in shock from what happened. 

[Ellaria]

7 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

I don’t think either. Whatshername ran into him when he tried to shoot her and knocked him to the ground, but she didn’t have any weapons. I think he was just in shock from what happened. 

I was wondering about this, too. His hands looked bloody. I guess we will find out next week.

Now that 2 of the 3 characters that I enjoyed are dead, I am left to hope that Rabbi survives this show. It is wasted opportunity to cast charismatic actors like Timothy Olyphant and and Ben Whishaw and give them such little screen time. I could easily trade some of Josto's romantic interludes for more of Deafy and Rabbi.

The scene between Mrs. Smutney and Mrs Cannon was excellent. I wish that these two had not been left on the periphery of the story. They added emotion (and heartache) to the story which has been in short supply this season. Still don't understand the purpose served by Zelmare and Shawnee. The question is whether Zelmare reappears this season or in some future season of Fargo (knowing how Hawley loves call backs.)

This season has been overstuffed with characters that are hard to relate to or root for. Many of them are left doing nothing until the plot circles back around to them. This season is evidence that less is often more.

[shapeshifter]

24 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

The question is whether Zelmare reappears this season or

When Swannee was killed in front of Zelmare, I immediately assumed Zelmare was going to want to exact revenge before the end of the season — probably suicide-attack levels of revenge. 

[Cherpumple]

8 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

This season has been overstuffed with characters that are hard to relate to or root for. Many of them are left doing nothing until the plot circles back around to them. This season is evidence that less is often more.

Totally agree. There are several characters that I really want to like (Ethelrida, Doctor Senator, Rabbi, Deafy) but they each have such little screen time that I haven't really connected with any of them.

Looking ahead, I definitely think the guy visiting from New York is going to be a player in the final episodes. He's been standing in the background looking increasingly disgusted at Josto's antics, and we know that his colleague Joe Bullo becomes a major player in Kansas City later, so I've been keeping my eye on him.

Speaking of callbacks to other seasons, I laughed when I noticed that on the big schedule board, the train going to Sioux Falls was number 666. (That was the site of the climactic massacre in season 2)

[Evagirl]

On 11/9/2020 at 6:01 PM, Crashcourse said:

How many more episodes of this shit?  I might as well watch 'til the end since I've gone this far.

I really needed this laugh today.  You cracked me up - totally!!!!

[Lonesome Rhodes]

On 11/9/2020 at 10:36 PM, LittleIggy said:

Who was the spectre that Zelmare and Swanee saw?

"He" is known to them as "Snowman" per earlier closed captioning.   Nothing, as far as I am aware, has been offered by way of exposition.

[shapeshifter]

48 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

On 11/9/2020 at 9:36 PM, LittleIggy said:

Who was the spectre that Zelmare and Swanee saw?

"He" is known to them as "Snowman" per earlier closed captioning.   Nothing, as far as I am aware, has been offered by way of exposition.

Have any othe characters besides Swannee and Zelmare seen this “Snowman”/Portent of Death?

[Crashcourse]

3 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Have any othe characters besides Swannee and Zelmare seen this “Snowman”/Portent of Death?

Didn't Ethelrida see a ghost of a man in an earlier episode?  

[LadyintheLoop]

There was some talk between Dibrell and Zelmare about how the devil had followed their family up from Mississippi.

[Lakebum]

On 11/9/2020 at 9:47 AM, Irlandesa said:

I think this is the first episode I found genuinely interesting this season and one that almost made sense.  I'm still disconnected from most of this season and the mob wars so I couldn't fully enjoy it as I feel like I'm lacking a lot of context.

I thought it was just me. After every episode I feel like I must have missed the two immediately before it.

[foxfreakinmulder]

On 11/9/2020 at 5:01 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Why would being large cause people to run away and not shoot you? Referring to Josto’s brother. He had 2 guns, but still was outnumbered. 

Not only that but he was captured being scared shooting at a closed door. So now he's brave enough to walk towards a group of men with guns firing at him. Come on show make up your mind.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 11/9/2020 at 1:22 AM, paigow said:

K.C. cops failed to win a 20 v 2 and missed every shot

Well two be fair the two outlaws they were after apparently had guns with unlimited ammunition.

On 11/9/2020 at 2:39 PM, Gimmick Genius said:

The Fargo gang! 

The gang Loy aligned with was the rival gang to the Gerhardts right. It is funny to think how if Lot had sold the guns to them instead we would have three very different seasons.

On 11/9/2020 at 4:28 PM, thuganomics85 said:

A lot of action here, but wow, apparently a lot of people can't shoot for shit, with the entire police force getting owned by two criminals (not to mention a ton of innocents caught in the crossfire), and dozens of Fargo gang members fleeing from one Gaetano.  

The not being able to shoot thing is interesting. Because if it is 1950 a lot of the men in these gangs (and cops) are probably WWII veterans. And even if they weren't in combat they should have had some training in shooting.