S11.E06: I See Red Flags

[pdlinda]

12 hours ago, TheMediumBopper said:

There have been tremendous gains in our understanding and treatment of mental illness and recent decades, and with that has come a certain amount of de-stigmatization and a general understanding that a functional person with mental illness is essentially as 'normal' as anyone else in all the ways that count. I don't personally know many people who would view being matched with Miles, whose depression is self-described as "something [you] wouldn't even know unless I told you," as having been "dealt a bad hand." Nor do I know many people who would react as unsympathetically as Karen seemed to, with that bizarre comment about masculinity.

Funny, I don't recall any of this type of stigmatizing when Katie quickly disclosed that she was a Type 1 diabetic and was showing Derek how to administer her insulin, that seemed quite complicated.  As I recall, there was nothing but affirmation and support for Derek assisting Katie with her medical condition that was chronic.  

In contrast, the mental health diagnosis and treatment (also maybe chronic; however, IMO, much less invasive in daily life and functioning than diabetic treatment), is receiving negative reaction, including from Karen.

I concur that millions and millions of people worldwide take anti-depressant meds ( in my case for over 25 yrs) and as was mentioned upthread, no one would know as with proper treatment and personal commitment to professional care it's something that can be managed effectively in order to live a high functioning life.

 

[StatisticalOutlier]

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

When Amelia spoke about how wonderful her childhood was, she used the example of asking her father if she could go over to a friend's house and he basically responded 'I don't care' I thought that might have been the genesis of her quirkiness.  It's as if she is 'quirky' as a way to get attention.  An ideal childhood in which one's parents don't care what one does?  More likely she really wanted parental attention and developed a personal that guarantees attention as an adult.

She said he said something like, "Why would I care?"  That's a lot different from "I don't care." 

I laughed at the "Why would I care," and thought of it more as a sign of free-range parenting.  And the roles were reversed in her family--her father was the one who raised the kids.  So maybe he was just tired of always being asked if she could go to this friend's house because the answer was always "yes."

But more important than what was actually said was what and how Amelia remembers it, and it doesn't sound like she took whatever was said as an indication that her parent(s) didn't care about her, and that she has to compensate for the rest of her life.

[pdlinda]

23 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

I'm doing the rewatch of this and I'm so baffled by Oliva.  She facetimes her BFF almost every day. She calls her mom every day.  She said she hangs out with Heather and Joe (whomever this is).  He asks how often she hangs out with them.  "like Every day."  

I thought this Nurse Practioner was so busy.  How do you spend that much time with Heather and Joe?  I thought she was so busy

It sounds as if Olivia's life is complete.  She has her family, friends, cat and career. 

As soon as she said she "works a lot at night" (that I believe is true) and sometimes comes home and just wants to shower and go to bed (that I believe is also true) why would she want to "relate" to a "husband?"  

Sounds like a husband would be an "annoyance" to Olivia and little more.

It sounded to me that all the interrogation with Brett about activities she wanted to hear him articulate that they could do together was just to put him "on the spot" and pressure him to answer her the exact way she desired.  It had nothing to do with the content of whatever he would say because whatever his answer would have been, to Olivia, I believe, it would have been insufficient, inadequate and/or otherwise WRONG!

[Boo Boo]

Just now, pdlinda said:

It sounds as if Olivia's life is complete.  She has her family, friends, cat and career. 

As soon as she said she "works a lot at night" (that I believe is true) and sometimes comes home and just wants to shower and go to bed (that I believe is also true) why would she want to "relate" to a "husband?"  

Sounds like a husband would be an "annoyance" to Olivia and little more.

It sounded to me that all the interrogation with Brett about activities she wanted to hear him articulate that they could do together was just to put him "on the spot" and pressure him to answer her the exact way she desired.  It had nothing to do with the content of whatever he would say because whatever his answer would have been, to Olivia, I believe, it would have been insufficient, inadequate and/or otherwise WRONG!

I wonder if Olivia feels pressure to get married? So she did this?  Now she can say she got married, got divorced. Now she can live her busy life, expensive wine & travel life!

And there's nothing wrong with that at all if that's what she wants to do!

 

[Flip Flops]

On 8/19/2020 at 9:19 PM, ChiCricket said:

It grosses me out SO much to see people brushing their teeth! (just me?)😜

Not just you! Also, no thanks to watching Olivia cleaning out her ears! 🤮

[pdlinda]

1 minute ago, Boo Boo said:

Now she can say she got married, got divorced. Now she can live her busy life, expensive wine & travel life!

I just recalled another big RED FLAG with Olivia that  addresses your point about getting marriage and divorce over with so she can live her ideal life with no unanswered questions:  She doesn't want to have children and started squirming around for "conditional" language when the subject was brought up with Brett.

[Boo Boo]

1 minute ago, pdlinda said:

I just recalled another big RED FLAG with Olivia that  addresses your point about getting marriage and divorce over with so she can live her ideal life with no unanswered questions:  She doesn't want to have children and started squirming around for "conditional" language when the subject was brought up with Brett.

Maybe that's what it is with Olivia.  I just keep feeling like we aren't seeing the real Olivia.  

[pdlinda]

Just now, Boo Boo said:

Maybe that's what it is with Olivia.  I just keep feeling like we aren't seeing the real Olivia.  

I think Olivia is a control freak who is really not "marriage material."

[humbleopinion]

Obviously there were marching orders for the field producers to film brushing and flossing and cleaning of various orifices of each couple at their Xcaret double sinks  with editors slicing and dicing these cleaning rituals into the segments to intimate intimate couples' activities.

 Bonus points if you get the double wording...

[TheMediumBopper]

I finally  finished the episode (it takes frickin' forever to watch an episode on Philio, what with those constant four-minute commercial breaks) and just wanted to add the following:

1. I haven't liked Olivia from day one. It's extremely validating when someone you think you don't like turns out to be as much of as a buttwipe as you expected they were. Granted, I'm not a Brett apologist-- he's reprehensible, too, in his own way-- but at least he can be witty, unlike the Humorless No-Chinned Wonder herself. (Side note: MAFS has a real history of casting women with dubious chins. Last season it was Katie, and both Christina and Olivia have serious chin issues going on this season.) I did laugh at Brett's comment about his snoring: "There is no validation other than your biased testimony," or something like that. And when Olivia was pressing him for details on what he wanted their lives to look like after the show ("Do you want to take me to dinner? Do you want to go to theater?") I was really hoping he'd just say, "I was thinking we'd just sit on the couch and watch Adam Sandler movies, mostly. And maybe sometimes we could screw." It would be hilarious to watch Ms. Fine Wine go apopleptic at that suggestion. 

2. Speaking of sitting on the couch-- I see Henry as a guy who would do a lot of that, and I like him. I agree with the poster who said he'd be a good dad. He'd be like a funny sitcom dad-- bumbling and inept and a little embarrassing, but well intentioned. 

3. I can't wait for next week when Christina tells us how all men thinks she is the most bee-yoo-ti-ful thing they have ever seen, so why isn't Henry pouncing on her? I look at her and all I see is a portly stankface with a bow tied in her hair. Not exactly Venus di Milo, you know?

4. Karen's on my shit list. At first I thought she seemed sweet and was quite beautiful, but as with all unpleasant people, she becomes uglier as her true personality comes out. (Amelia, on the other hand, gets prettier to me each week.) Big ups to Amelia for saying, "Uh, maybe Miles is just a really sweet and cool guy!" when Karen was bitching that he wasn't 'masculine' enough. Give it a rest, Karen. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by TheMediumBopper

[TheMediumBopper]

9 minutes ago, TheMediumBopper said:

My first double post! I feel so accomplished now.

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by TheMediumBopper

[Boo Boo]

10 minutes ago, TheMediumBopper said:

 

I liked your post so much that it deserved another duplicate post!  

(And it's nice to see someone who feels like i do about Olivia.  Part of me is wondering why I have such a dislike for her so it's nice to see that I'm not the only one!)

Edited August 21, 2020 by Boo Boo

[humbleopinion]

6 hours ago, TheMediumBopper said:

 I was really hoping he'd just say, "I was thinking we'd just sit on the couch and watch Adam Sandler movies, mostly. And maybe sometimes we could screw." Sounds like Covid evenings at the Humbo abode....

Speaking of sitting on the couch-- I see Henry as a guy who would do a lot of that, and I like him. I agree with the poster who said he'd be a good dad. The couch would be a very tasteful tufted velvet settee with recessed arms and mahogany Queen Anne feet

I can't wait for next week when Christina tells us how all men thinks she is the most bee-yoo-ti-ful thing they have ever seen, so why  I look at her and all I see is a portly stankface with a bow tied in her hair. Not exactly Venus di Milo, you know?

ChristinA has Too many 💪💪but you are on a roll.....

(Amelia, on the other hand, gets prettier to me each week.

She sings like a bird....wears a bird... full circle..

Click the READ MORE to open the box...

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by humbleopinion

[Empress1]

54 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

I wonder if Olivia feels pressure to get married? So she did this?  Now she can say she got married, got divorced. Now she can live her busy life, expensive wine & travel life!

I have no idea what Olivia’s motivations are, but it’s definitely more socially acceptable for a woman to be divorced than to never have been married.

[humbleopinion]

11 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I have no idea what Olivia’s motivations are, but it’s definitely more socially acceptable for a woman to be divorced than to never have been married.

Or in Henry's case widowed.....

[Neurochick]

16 hours ago, Meowwww said:

I still like Olivia.  I also like nice things.  Hubby makes wayyyy more than I do, but he likes nice things too.  We don’t live outside our means, and I dont know why many think she does.  
Also, I have been on antidepressants forever.  They saved my life.  I am not weird or a red flag, I can’t help my brain chemistry.  It seems like a personal attack, those of you saying you wouldn’t be with someone on meds.  Those of us on meds, we don’t talk about it....guaranteed your friends and neighbors might be on them.  Doesn’t make us lesser people and worthy of being passed by.  
Sorry, but mental health is near and dear to my heart.  We aren’t out there murdering people or being awful....the comments here just make me sad.  If you haven’t lived it, don’t judge it.  I’m disappointed.  

I want to like your post a million times.  

Yes, this is married at first sight.  But in real life, shit happens.  You can marry someone and they might be healthy and then BOOM it happens:  Heart disease, cancer, mental illness, neurological conditions.  You have no idea what life has in store for you.  But one thing I do know, Miles doesn't have babymama drama, like Karen's last boyfriend.  

There is nothing wrong with a woman wanting to like nice things like Olivia does.  But I wonder if Olivia made that clear when she applied for the show.  

[Rae Spellman]

3 hours ago, JapMo said:

Uhhhh.....sorry, I just can't believe a 30 year old woman doesn't know if she wants kids.  I'll give you ambivalent.  No, that biological clock keeps    a-tickin and if we females pretend we don't notice it, every women's magazine will make sure we remember but not just that....there's the ultimate Big Ben chiming it out over and over....our parents!!! 

That's exactly why a thirty year old woman could be unsure about whether or not she wants to have kids. Or sure that she doesn't want children at thirty but worried about what will happen if she wants them when she's approaching forty. Beth of Beth and Jaime told the produces she wanted kids, told Jaime that she didn't, and then mentioned that maybe she does want them when they visited Greg and Deonna. While it's probably best if folks figure out where they stand on children before getting married, plenty of professional 30-35 year old women are probably figuring out w/ whether or not they want to have kids, don't want kids, or think they should due to family pressure, fear of future regret, etc.   

[KateHearts]

3 hours ago, LaLaLaLa said:

Huh???

Where did I say that dedicating oneself to a career is a negative (or fine dining, or constantly talking to family/friends, etc.)? In fact, I said the opposite. I said a career (along with the other items I listed) is worthwhile pursuit, but I also said these may not mesh with Brett's priorities. What's wrong with that?

Olivia may be "athletic" in her mind but her body (from what we've seen) doesn't support that statement. She may have said she "works out" on the wedding night but, based on her follow-up conversations, she barely has time for her husband in her busy schedule (and that didn't include working out).

When I quoted you, I highlighted where you mentioned something as “unhealthy.” I read it a little wrong... you actually meant that her interests didnt reflect Physical health. I read that you referred to the interests she had as unhealthy interests. Oops. Sorry. 

[TheMediumBopper]

1 hour ago, humbleopinion said:

Speaking of sitting on the couch-- I see Henry as a guy who would do a lot of that, and I like him. I agree with the poster who said he'd be a good dad. The couch would be a very tasteful tufted velvet settee with recessed arms and mahogany Queen Anne feet

And now I know what I'm getting Henry for Christmas, by cracky! Let me know if you want to pitch in, humbleopinion.

[LaLaLaLa]

11 minutes ago, KateHearts said:

When I quoted you, I highlighted where you mentioned something as “unhealthy.” I read it a little wrong... you actually meant that her interests didnt reflect Physical health. I read that you referred to the interests she had as unhealthy interests. Oops. Sorry. 

Gotcha...no worries. I think they both have positive attributes but I don't see much common ground.

[ShowFan]

Can I just say that I also enjoy nice things and fancy vacations BUT Trader Joe’s have amazing wines under $15! And I love them! I’ve liked a $10 bottle from there as much as, or even more than, a $200 one at a restaurant. 

[Bubbacat]

Just have to chime in on Karen and Miles. I do see how clinical depression might be a deal breaker, especially in the whole MAFS situation. However, I was with my SO/partner/boyfriend for several years. He told me on our first date that he was bipolar. (We had met online and chatted for a few weeks before we met in person.) He told me because he wanted me to know up front and give me the opportunity to nope out if I wanted to. Fortunately, I stuck around. Otherwise, I would have missed out on the best and strongest relationship of my life with a wonderful man. Sure, there were times when things got tough -- when he was depressed and wanted to hibernate or when he got manic and kind of "nuts." But he was extremely diligent about taking his medication and going to his doctor appointments, and the vast majority of the time, he was fabulous. I stuck around even through the hard times because he was just the best. And he was honest with me from the very beginning. He passed away very suddenly not quite two years ago (completely unrelated to his being bipolar), and I still miss him each and every day.

All of that is to say that I'm totally pulling for Miles! But I do understand why anyone wouldn't want to deal with a partner with mental illness if they're just getting to know them and that's not what they signed up for.

(And now, off my soapbox.)

[JapMo]

10 minutes ago, RaeSpellman said:

That's exactly why a thirty year old woman could be unsure about whether or not she wants to have kids. Or sure that she doesn't want children at thirty but worried about what will happen if she wants them when she's approaching forty. Beth of Beth and Jaime told the produces she wanted kids, told Jaime that she didn't, and then mentioned that maybe she does want them when they visited Greg and Deonna. While it's probably best if folks figure out where they stand on children before getting married, plenty of professional 30-35 year old women are probably figuring out w/ whether or not they want to have kids, don't want kids, or think they should due to family pressure, fear of future regret, etc.   

I still stand by my opinion that a woman age 30 knows if she wants kids or not.  Probably most women know by the time they are 18.  Not if they will, but do they want to.  That's all I'm saying.  You can be unsure about when or where (but not how, hopefully).  You can have family pressures, worry you are too old to be running after children, worry that you can even afford them, be scared of the actual physical side of bearing a child, etc etc etc.  BUT....deep down, if all situations were perfect, could you see yourself having children?  And I maintain women know the answer to that question way before age 30.  Beth's flipflopping convinces me she's never actually been vehemently opposed to having kids.  

Olivia is opposed.  She said she's never seen herself as a parent.  She was being honest.  Then she backed off and was dishonest and said maybe.  But you can tell just by how she talks about kids she doesn't want one.  

 

[humbleopinion]

2 hours ago, TheMediumBopper said:

And now I know what I'm getting Henry for Christmas, by cracky! Let me know if you want to pitch in, humbleopinion.

I'm all in plus I know the perfect throw for his future settee....reminiscent of Ashley's much coveted blanket....

2 hours ago, ShowFan said:

Can I just say that I also enjoy nice things and fancy vacations BUT Trader Joe’s have amazing wines under $15! And I love them! I’ve liked a $10 bottle from there as much as, or even more than, a $200 one at a restaurant. 

We will go sit with Brett and enjoy quaffing our budget wines....pass the box wine please..... I see he brought the box white, box red and box rose in his vintage Samsonite attache....

Edited August 21, 2020 by humbleopinion

[TheMediumBopper]

56 minutes ago, JapMo said:

I still stand by my opinion that a woman age 30 knows if she wants kids or not.  Probably most women know by the time they are 18.  Not if they will, but do they want to.  That's all I'm saying.  You can be unsure about when or where (but not how, hopefully).  You can have family pressures, worry you are too old to be running after children, worry that you can even afford them, be scared of the actual physical side of bearing a child, etc etc etc.  BUT....deep down, if all situations were perfect, could you see yourself having children?  And I maintain women know the answer to that question way before age 30. 

 

Oh, I'm not so sure about that. I'm in my 40s and have a few female friends who felt they never wanted children and are now second-guessing their choice at a time when it's probably too late for them. I was always quite positive that I didn't want any kids, and then I got accidentally knocked up four months after I got married and we decided to go ahead with the pregnancy even though we were scared shitless  and I didn't have a maternal bone in my body. I think there is so much uncertainty involving the prospect of parenthood, especially for women. It's OK to be 30 and not know what you want, I think. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by TheMediumBopper

[Rae Spellman]

15 minutes ago, JapMo said:

 BUT....deep down, if all situations were perfect, could you see yourself having children?  And I maintain women know the answer to that question way before age 30. 

In a perfect world, sure.  In this imperfect world, women in my mother and grandmother's generations probably knew at 18.  Maybe most women still know before 30. I just wonder if a growing minority of younger women are less sure. Leaning in one direction or the other. But, not certain.

I'm rewatching the second episode. Amani wanted someone 7 years older yet ended up being perfectly fine w/ the 1 year older Woody. Woody teaches precalculus and trigonometry. They consummated their marriage on the equivalent of a sixth date. They may not make it long term. But, I'm rooting for them. I want Amani to be happy and I want Woody to have his two dads that he can go to for advice. 

 

[bichonblitz]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

There is nothing wrong with a woman wanting to like nice things like Olivia does.  But I wonder if Olivia made that clear when she applied for the show.  

I think the problem is Olivia's delivery and tone. She's coming across as entitled, spoiled, rigid and demanding.  

[Alexander Pope]

On 8/19/2020 at 6:40 PM, Mercolleen said:

ChristinA looks like a villain in that crazy top.

A villain and a weirdo! She was wearing a sparkly turtleneck in what was pretty clearly hot weather.  I was confused.

[karenbrady]

On 8/19/2020 at 9:29 PM, ShowFan said:

“It’s a massive turn on that you’re loaded!” Omg I’m dying! I will say that I loved Brett’s jokes and sense of humor in this episode so far (only watched through his convo with Olivia on how he fits into her life ..the rest DVR for tomorrow). I see him in a different light here (still an asshole but a funny one) and I do see her as more rigid. 
 

Henry is also showing his fun side! Quite the character and becoming very likable. Christina is getting on the bad side of the producers. 
 

Karen rocking an awesome bod! Still super low energy for me and boring. 
 

Amani is truly a queen! I loved how she stabbed Brett with “don’t wink at me, it’s not cute!” She is the kind of woman that every man should aspire to have by his side. Beautiful, strong, honest and loyal  

Bennett and Amelia are super adorable and have the deepest most intelligent conversations on getting to know each other. Her guitar song was lovely!

 

 

Her song was lovely! 

[Alexander Pope]

On 8/20/2020 at 8:01 AM, humbleopinion said:

Feel free to disagree.

I think it was spot on!  you could write novels about some of these people!

[Alexander Pope]

On 8/20/2020 at 10:58 AM, LaLaLaLa said:

Yes. I dislike all the couples except Woody/Amani and Amelia/Bennett.

Karen may act older (she looks much older than the age she gave MAFS) but she's definitely immature. She has no idea what she wants and is making it very confusing for Miles. One minute she is unhappy that he has dated more women than she has dated men, but then she complains that she really wanted an alpha male (who typically "date" LOTS of women). Karen deserves to be single and miserable.

I also thought Karen was unnecessarily snippy with Miles when he asked her her thoughts about intimacy.  She concluded her "we'll know when we're ready" answer with "any more questions for me?"  Her tone was not great.

[Cancun]

35 minutes ago, Alexander Pope said:

A villain and a weirdo! She was wearing a sparkly turtleneck in what was pretty clearly hot weather.  I was confused.

To be fair, it was a sheer sparkly turtleneck with a black bra underneath. Oh wait...nope, still weird.

[Alexander Pope]

On 8/20/2020 at 11:38 AM, lizajane said:

 

Amelia and Bennett are coming across as two 10 year old besties, having a sleepover in a fort. I just can't with all the quirkiness, and I don't remember seeing any signs of physical affection between them.

he was rubbing her foot very sweetly when she sang to him.

[humbleopinion]

8 minutes ago, Alexander Pope said:

I also thought Karen was unnecessarily snippy with Miles when he asked her her thoughts about intimacy.  She concluded her "we'll know when we're ready" answer with "any more questions for me?"  Her tone was not great.

Karen needed a Snickers...can’t talk sex when she’s hangry.

[Kira53]

Woody/Amani and Bennett/Amelia are a delight to watch.  I'm looking forward to seeing how they react to "real life". Does anyone know how soon "Covid quarantine" will start after they return home?  That's got to be stressful, especially being 24 seven with somebody you don't know.

On 8/20/2020 at 1:58 PM, LaLaLaLa said:

Yes. I dislike all the couples except Woody/Amani and Amelia/Bennett.

Karen may act older (she looks much older than the age she gave MAFS) but she's definitely immature. She has no idea what she wants and is making it very confusing for Miles. One minute she is unhappy that he has dated more women than she has dated men, but then she complains that she really wanted an alpha male (who typically "date" LOTS of women). Karen deserves to be single and miserable.

Of course the premature disclosure was encouraged by his producer. Someone criticize Miles is not being romantic but a lot of men aren't romantic.  It doesn't mean they're not good husbands and fathers. I'm sure the man who had the baby outside of his relationship with Karen was very romantic. I'm sure he knew exactly what to say most of the time. I'm sure he had an explanation for the baby and why Karen should give him another chance.  See how sure I am?

On 8/20/2020 at 7:45 PM, Cancun said:

Many here have expressed this same thought, and I don’t disagree...IF the timing was Miles’ idea.  However, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was suggested by production that he “address his big issue with Karen today.”  

The editors of this show are excellent and help to shape our beliefs about each of these characters, oops, people who just got married.  Love this forum because people see things so differently in the little clips that the show wishes to give us about each individual and their interactions. It's amazing how many people just know for sure whatever they believe about what I just saw or heard. Sometimes people miss hear or they interpret what they heard.

Regarding Miles employment, as I recall he is a young school administrator possibly an assistant principal.  I recall there being some comment about his rising up in his school so far in such a short time and that he is very young educator for his responsibilities. This suggests to me that he functions extremely well, although he clearly wasn't very happy, with probable sleep disturbance, possible appetite changes, reduced energy.  That he seems to have functioned very well in his work suggests medication has been very helpful to him but he could have had a very dark period.  The other hand most people would be totally shocked to know how many of the people that they know are on antidepressants. "Almost 25 million adults have been taking antidepressants for at least 2 years, a 60% increase since 2010. Moreover, approximately 15.5 million individuals have been taking the drugs for at least 5 years, nearly doubling the rate since 2010."

Edited August 22, 2020 by Kira53
I don't remember to proofread.

[ECM1231]

8 hours ago, pdlinda said:

Funny, I don't recall any of this type of stigmatizing when Katie quickly disclosed that she was a Type 1 diabetic and was showing Derek how to administer her insulin, that seemed quite complicated.  As I recall, there was nothing but affirmation and support for Derek assisting Katie with her medical condition that was chronic

Nope. Not true. You must not have seen my post last season or my post earlier on this thread. I'm not saying mental illness should be stigmatized or people with illnesses and/or physical limitations are not worthy of love BUT if I, and only I, were an applicant on this show and happened to be matched and married and found out afterwards that my spouse was diabetic, had attention deficit disorder, chronic depression or whatever, I would NOT be a happy camper. That's not what I signed up for.  In real life dating we discover things about the person we are dating little by little.  We then can choose if we feel equipped to handle whatever these challenges may be.

 

My husband's cousin married later in life...in her 40s. Her spouse was just slightly older but had Parkinson's. At the time he was active and managing his illness. It got progressively worse within a few years and the wife split. This is an extreme example. She knew beforehand how serious this disease is. Otoh my dear brother-in- law was diagnosed with Parkinson's at age 59. At the time my sister had been married to him for close to 30 years. 11 years later he is still at home but essentially bedridden. She would never abandon him.

My point is that a person should know what they are getting into before marriage.  I didn't feel it was fair to Derek to be matched with Katie, a diabetic, no matter how well under control. Things can happen. I got a lot of flak for saying it and also now for saying essentially the same about Miles's depression. I think he's a sweetheart and will make someone a fine husband. But to be matched with a person on MAFS who has had no say about this? Nope. Wrong, imo. I'm sorry if folks here are offended, but  I stand by my comments.

[Ilovepie]

3 hours ago, Alexander Pope said:

A villain and a weirdo! She was wearing a sparkly turtleneck in what was pretty clearly hot weather.  I was confused.

Thank you! I seriously started sweating just watching her in that long sleeve turtleneck and jeans in that climate. Or I could have been sweating bc it was a searing heatwave here in good old California until the whole state went up in flames shortly thereafter and the smoke cover dropped us back down into the 90’s......but I digress.....

You would think someone who is such a seasoned international traveler would have the right clothes for a beach vacation - that getup was NOT tropical beach vacay ready in any way!

[qtpye]

14 hours ago, Booger666 said:

I have a different take on how Olivia handled the salary discussion with Brett.  I have been the high earning woman with a man who makes less.  I have had friends in a similar situation.  Sadly, it is more of an issue than you would expect in this day and age.   She asked him if he had a problem with it.  When she was talking about the expensive things she enjoyed I took it as her explaining she wasn’t going to be ashamed of spending her money.  I had a boss who made double what her husband made and he would shame her spending.  He was OK with her earning it, but did not like their family and friends to see the purchases because then they would be able to figure out the earning discrepancy.  My husband had a boss who was greatly offended that I made more than my husband and anytime I got a raise (I worked for a large company so the annual merit was in the local news) he would give my husband a raise.  Just as Karen and ChristinA want a “traditional” and “aggressive” manly man type, there are plenty of people who think the a woman should be in a traditional role and earn less.  YMMV.

 

14 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

That's a good take -- thanks for sharing that!  Yes, there's still a lot of weirdness about a woman making more than a man.  And maybe that's where she was coming from.

 

 

13 hours ago, Empress1 said:

My best friend has out-earned her husband for most of their relationship (she was laid off recently so now isn't making anything, and her husband finished school before she did so he was working for a year while she was still a student. Other than that, she’s earned more) and while they have a strong marriage, that’s probably the biggest issue in it. (Part of it is that they’re in the same profession so he expected to make what she did, but shit happens.) I’ve outearned a couple of men I’ve dated and they didn’t like it either. I’ve known more men than not who would prefer to be the breadwinner, and I roll in pretty progressive circles. Olivia isn’t wrong to be cautious there. For me, it’s less about income (above a certain point) and more about having the same attitude about money. Being with someone who didn’t save would stress me out, I couldn’t do it.

It might depend on the man, but I have found there seems to be a lot of drama when a woman significantly out earns the man in the relationship but not when the genders are reversed.

It is one of the reasons that a man's dating pool gets larger the more he earns while a woman's dating pools gets smaller for the same thing.

I knew a lady who was an executive at a bank that married a musician. She made very good money and he earned very little since he relied on getting gigs that were not too frequent. I kid you not, they told their two children that they both contributed the same amount of money to the household because the wanted the dad "to look good" in front of his children.

One day the daughter tells the mother that she wants to be a musician because they make a lot of money and do not work all the time at a boring job, like she does. The mother had to come clean because the daughter was totally clueless about the financial realities of their family.

Meanwhile, I know a woman whose husband literally makes 10 times her salary. She earns 70k and he earns nearly 700k. Even though she makes decent family, the children are very aware that it is daddy who is pulling in the big bucks. She actually underscores how much she contributes, even though she is successful in her own right.

Totally unrelated to this topic...shout out to @ZaldamoWilder.  What up, Family! Love your posts and hope to hear more from you.

[ChiMama]

On 8/20/2020 at 5:49 PM, JapMo said:

It's so sad, and I don't hate Karen for it. 

I don’t hate her, but I DO dislike her. She’s toying with him & not being very nice about it. That’s especially crappy because He DID tell her about his depression & treatment. She’s icy, boring & condescending. She’s a beautiful girl, but her scolding & snotty “Do you have any more questions for me, Miles?” after he had the cajones to sensitively broach the intimacy conversation was like she was his mother or an 80-yr-old schoolmarm. By his body language, it crushed him - he was physically slumped & drawing into himself. She shouldn’t trifle with him. Set him free if he’s not “man enough” for you, Karen — I think many women in NOLA would appreciate the opportunity to be in a relationship with a nice, good-looking, affectionate guy with good communication skills. You can move on to your next douche-y he-man dog. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by ChiMama

[ChiMama]

18 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

Yes, she does have a right to be concerned -- is his depression under control?  How does his depression affect his day to day?  Has he ever been suicidal?  Is this the overly emotional stuff she was concerned about with his online persona?

Those are all great questions that Karen certainly could have discussed with Miles. Judging by his approach in bringing up the subject & what we’ve seen of him so far, I’m sure he would have totally been open to answering all of them and more. When they return home, they could even go together to his doctor to talk about his depression & treatment. But Karen had already checked out before this discussion, truly doesn’t seem to give a crap about him, and isn’t interested in learning more because she’s already decided to bail. I wish she would just mercifully do it sooner rather than later for his sake. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by ChiMama

[JapMo]

4 hours ago, ChiMama said:

But Karen had already checked out before this discussion, truly doesn’t seem to give a crap about him, and isn’t interested in learning more because she’s already decided to bail. I wish she would just mercifully do it sooner rather than later for his sake. 

I wouldn't go so far as to say she doesn't give a crap about him, but she's definitely not interested in him as a husband.  And yes, she should end it, but I'm sure there's tremendous pressure from the show to stick it out for the 8 weeks.  And then just in general it's a sense of failure that is magnified because it's playing out on TV, so that's a humiliation.  And all your friends and family are seeing it, when they just attended your wedding.  

I have often thought that when these people realize very quickly that they are mismatched, that they should go to their spouse and be honest and say let's have fun for 8 weeks and then just part amicably.  Put just enough effort in to it to look like they are trying.

[Yeah No]

On 8/21/2020 at 8:34 AM, Boo Boo said:

Once she found out his salary, it was all about her lifestyle.  She likes expensive wine.  She likes expensive vacations.  She eats out all the time. That might not be the high life, but the implication was:  Oh shit, I got paired with someone who can't afford to do the things I want to do and I sure as shit ain't paying for him.  

And then when he talked about living within his means, the eye rolls and side eyes.  

For me, it was all about how she handled that discussion and then the discussion later about how she isn't giving up anything, changing anything about herself at all when she gets married. Let me preface this by saying, no you should not give up your friends and things you enjoy doing.  But marriage does involve some kind of compromise or don't get married.   

I also feel like she's done a 180 since we first met her and the wedding.  She does not seem like the same person that I liked.  I don't like Brett, but she's starting to make him seem likeable to me!

I'm still of the mindset that Olivia knows he isn't into her so she's detaching and making it seem like it's mutual.

Also, I'm so sorry Yeah No for the shitty hand life has dealt lately.  That's a lot all at once.  Cyber hugs!

. 

Thank you, I really appreciate that!  (((Hugs))) back!

I actually felt for Olivia when she was telling Brett that she keeps trying with him but feels like she isn't getting anything in return and later when she started to feel like he's doing everything "for the show" and not "for real".  I have a suspicion that she doesn't think he's into her, and she may be right.  That may be her gut instinct.  So I'm kind of giving her a little slack for not being as sweet and nice as she seemed to be in the beginning.  Perhaps she's getting asshole vibes from Brett (like others have gotten, aka Christina and the guys).  Brett is striking me as being all surface and no depth and like he's putting on a facade to look like he's going along with things.  The problem is that they're a mismatch.  She even admitted to the women that they don't like a lot of the same things.  So there isn't much to make these two like each other, unfortunately. 

I also think she was digging her heels in about what she likes and doesn't like.  The more he pulls to the mundane, the more she pulls to the extravagant.  I've been there and done that, LOL.  That one guy I dated many years ago who liked Barry Manilow and Neil Diamond (nothing against them, but they weren't my faves) - he kept pressuring me to go to their concerts with him, which I did, but why be so pushy about it?  He also acted all strange about having to listen to their music when with me, and got pissy if I even suggested changing the radio station in the car to a different kind of music.  It was like he was digging his heels in about having everything he liked but didn't want to bend to accept what I liked.  And I'm getting those vibes from Brett too.  I think he's a big baby who is actually threatened by Olivia, especially since finding out she makes that much more than he does.

[Yeah No]

On 8/21/2020 at 8:46 AM, Boo Boo said:

On Miles and Karen, I do understand why she could be concerned about his battle with depression.  But it's couching it as not being masculine is what's the disturbing part.  Yes, she does have a right to be concerned -- is his depression under control?  How does his depression affect his day to day?  Has he ever been suicidal?  Is this the overly emotional stuff she was concerned about with his online persona?

It's stigmatizing someone who was very brave to (1) seek help, and (2) be open about it, is what is appalling to me.

I don't know that Karen thinks being depressed in and of itself is a strike against his masculinity.  She may think the way he acts about it is not "masculine" enough for her.  She probably thinks he should suck it up and not show his emotional vulnerabilities, which is stupid, because it's more healthy to be open about that than to hold it inside.  I think this ties into the question Miles' mother asked Karen 2 episodes ago about how she felt about "submission", as in submitting to her husband and accepting him as the head of the household.  It sounds to me like both Karen AND her in-laws have some pretty old fashioned/traditional views on the power structure in male/female relationships and for Karen that translates into expecting a masculine man to be stoic about his emotions and not show them or let on that he has any vulnerability.  So it's not just Karen's issue, it's also Miles' family's issue, although for some reason (to their credit!) they don't equate the way Miles talks about his vulnerabilities with being weak for a "head of household" like Karen probably does.  Just my take.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Yeah No

[antfitz]

On 8/20/2020 at 1:06 PM, Boo Boo said:

YES, I forgot about that "big boy pants on."  

I sincerely hope that the next time she runs off to the bathroom he tells her she needs to put on her big girl pants.  

 I think Karen better be very careful. While I feel sorry for miles and his situation, clinical depression is around 50% hereditary. So if she has children with him, she has a very strong chance of having children that are  also clinically depressed. That is not a minor thing. And that should have been told to her before not after the wedding.  The clinically depressed often self medicate with alcohol or drugs.  I would not want to raise children that I would constantly have to be fearful of their indulging in drugs and alcohol.  While many children get involved with drugs or alcohol, this would be a much bigger problem for someone clinically depressed.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

My point is that a person should know what they are getting into before marriage.

If you need to know what you are getting into before marriage (nothing wrong with that; I would), you shouldn't go on this show.

Quote

I didn't feel it was fair to Derek to be matched with Katie, a diabetic, no matter how well under control. Things can happen. I got a lot of flak for saying it and also now for saying essentially the same about Miles's depression. I think he's a sweetheart and will make someone a fine husband. But to be matched with a person on MAFS who has had no say about this? Nope. Wrong, imo. I'm sorry if folks here are offended, but  I stand by my comments.

I'm not offended but I do disagree. I have chronic depression that is well managed. It's in no way as serious a condition as Type I diabetes (which Katie had) or Parkinson's. I'd put it on par with seasonal allergies or perhaps borderline high cholesterol (with which I also am blessed). Nothing about Miles to date, suggests that he has a particularly severe or unmanaged case of depression. He takes a pill once a day and to do that, he sees a doctor periodically. That's it. 

[Yeah No]

On 8/21/2020 at 9:14 AM, Booger666 said:

I have a different take on how Olivia handled the salary discussion with Brett.  I have been the high earning woman with a man who makes less.  I have had friends in a similar situation.  Sadly, it is more of an issue than you would expect in this day and age.   She asked him if he had a problem with it.  When she was talking about the expensive things she enjoyed I took it as her explaining she wasn’t going to be ashamed of spending her money.  I had a boss who made double what her husband made and he would shame her spending.  He was OK with her earning it, but did not like their family and friends to see the purchases because then they would be able to figure out the earning discrepancy.  My husband had a boss who was greatly offended that I made more than my husband and anytime I got a raise (I worked for a large company so the annual merit was in the local news) he would give my husband a raise.  Just as Karen and ChristinA want a “traditional” and “aggressive” manly man type, there are plenty of people who think the a woman should be in a traditional role and earn less.  YMMV.

Oh wow, this is exactly where I was going in that earlier post of mine - you said it so well, thank you.  I agree that is what I think might be going on with Brett.  He's threatened by a woman that makes more than him and who isn't ashamed of being independent and spending her money on her independent interests.  I can't tell you how many men I met when I was single that were like this, even when we were all supposed to have progressed to accept independent career women.  Thankfully my husband was never that way or I'd have never married him.  But his family WAS that way, and they often treated me very poorly because of it.  Even up until a few years ago if I made a major purchase my husband felt like he had to hide the fact that I did it from them just to avoid their attitudes.  Ridiculous, especially because my own mother was very progressive about women's independence.  She owned and drove her own car in the 1940s and we were a two car family when I was a kid in the '60s and '70s.  That all by itself says volumes.  Plus she made more than my Dad for several years (he worked in non-profit and she was a legal secretary in a big law firm).

But regarding Karen - she wants a traditional, manly man, but it seems like her in-laws want her to be a traditional submissive woman to Miles, so it seems like there is a little of that going on on both sides.  We don't yet really know how Miles himself feels about this issue.

[Boo Boo]

2 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

If you need to know what you are getting into before marriage (nothing wrong with that; I would), you shouldn't go on this show.

I'm not offended but I do disagree. I have chronic depression that is well managed. It's in no way as serious a condition as Type I diabetes (which Katie had) or Parkinson's. I'd put it on par with seasonal allergies or perhaps borderline high cholesterol (with which I also am blessed). Nothing about Miles to date, suggests that he has a particularly severe or unmanaged case of depression. He takes a pill once a day and to do that, he sees a doctor periodically. That's it. 

There are those, however, that clinical depression is a pretty serious condition though.  I have a friend in his 30s who recently posted some on FB that none of his friends understand his depression.  I messaged him privately and he told me that he's suffered from depression and anxiety all of his life and that nothing is working -- not his meds, not his therapy.  All I can do is be an ear for him and hope that something helps him soon.  

I can understand why someone would need more information, but Karen didn't ask questions, didn't seem to want to delve deeper.  She was just instantly turned off.  She should've asked how he controls his depression, especially in the dark periods.  Instead, she thought it wasn't masculine.  That's dumb.    

 

[Jeanne222]

Didn't Bennet say he and Amelia were smooching?  I think they do have some say in intimate moments being recorded.

Olivia finds Brett 'too much man for her' so she's trying to set the rules for him and 'get on top'!I

Henry is still 'my guy'!   I like him and think before long Christina will be drawn to him.

Poor Miles. I see no hope for him with Queen Karen!

Woody and Armani...I'm anxious to see them in really life.

[Boo Boo]

 

I feel like we're watching some really wonderful courting between Amelia and Bennett.  It's very cute and sweet.  I hope these two kids make it.

 

[Boo Boo]

26 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Oh wow, this is exactly where I was going in that earlier post of mine - you said it so well, thank you.  I agree that is what I think might be going on with Brett.  He's threatened by a woman that makes more than him and who isn't ashamed of being independent and spending her money on her independent interests.  I can't tell you how many men I met when I was single that were like this, even when we were all supposed to have progressed to accept independent career women.  Thankfully my husband was never that way or I'd have never married him.  But his family WAS that way, and they often treated me very poorly because of it.  Even up until a few years ago if I made a major purchase my husband felt like he had to hide the fact that I did it from them just to avoid their attitudes.  Ridiculous, especially because my own mother was very progressive about women's independence.  She owned and drove her own car in the 1940s and we were a two car family when I was a kid in the '60s and '70s.  That all by itself says volumes.  Plus she made more than my Dad for several years (he worked in non-profit and she was a legal secretary in a big law firm).

But regarding Karen - she wants a traditional, manly man, but it seems like her in-laws want her to be a traditional submissive woman to Miles, so it seems like there is a little of that going on on both sides.  We don't yet really know how Miles himself feels about this issue.

For all of my annoyance with Olivia, I do think good for her that she is successful in her career, makes her own damn money (and good money) and lives life the way she wants to.  I am probably way too harsh on her b/c I just haven't seen a personality on her.  

Edited August 22, 2020 by Boo Boo