S01.E10: Full Circle

[nodorothyparker]

Airdate 2020.10.18

Quote

After uncovering the origins of the Book of Names, the gang heads back to Ardham to cast the ultimate spell.

 

[nodorothyparker]

Bump

[paigow]

Gandalf v Sarumon

[LoveLeigh]

I thought all the episodes were masterpieces except this last one. It was a sloppy mess of nonsense which i think will appeal to "fanboys" of this genre but it was very uneven and in some scenes it was just awful. The only scene I liked was all of them in the car singing "Life Could Be a Dream." And I hated the actress who played Christina. I think that role was miscast. Her blond wig was terrible too. 

With Tic dying, how can there be a season 2? 

[peridot]

I'm glad we could see what happened to the monster!  Though I wonder how he managed to get to Ardham undetected.  I liked the scene where the ancestors were together, summoning Titus. 

I'm glad that Ruby attempted to do the right thing in the end, though I wonder what Leti told her at the graveyard.  I didn't expect for Christina to show up like that at the end.

How did Leti come back to life, and is Dee possessed? She killed with no hesitation.

[LoveLeigh]

16 minutes ago, peridot said:

How did Leti come back to life, and is Dee possessed? She killed with no hesitation.

The whole episode made no sense to me and had none of the artistic touches of the previous episodes. I think it was a hot mess. 

[Robert Lynch]

What the hell was that?

[DearEvette]

This needed an extra 10-20 minutes.  I needed more closure! And some explanation.

On the one hand this was satisfying in that the different parts pulled together and the good guys 'won' after a fashion.

Overall I think the parts were better than the sum.  I loved the salt circle and all the women ancestors.  I liked the summoning and the destruction of Titus. I liked the Ruby switcheroo even though I hate that Ruby had to die.  It was a textbook eleventh hour "twist"  that is absolutely a trope that is a staple of the sci-fi pulp that this episode played into.  I loved the sing-a-long.  Again textbook lighthearted moment to release tension before the heavy stuff goes down.

But I think this will go down as probably my least favorite episode of the season.  It felt rushed and disconnected and a little too oblique for its own good. 

Some guesses about things:

Hipplolyta took Dee on a quick future trip and had her arm replaced.

I think Leti reclaiming the magic affected Dee. This is after all her blood family and her magic too now.  She must have gained some knowledge from the ancestors.  Her face was much too 'knowing' when she killed Christina in the end.

Christina restored Leti's immortality because in the end, she did want to honor her promise to Ruby.  As fucked up as Christina is and even though she is a villain, she is the brand of villain that is cold and rational and not really emotional.  Her petty moment of taking it away was an emotional response and I think she regretted it.

[Indigo Luna]

9 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I think Leti reclaiming the magic affected Dee. This is after all her blood family and her magic too now.  She must have gained some knowledge from the ancestors.  Her face was much too 'knowing' when she killed Christina in the end.

I don't think so because the magic comes from Tic's moms side, not Montrose' and Georges. I think she just wanted her dead, and for good reason. Christina had a hand in her fathers death, and now her cousin. Shit I'd want her dead too, and why not use her new Terminator arm while she's at it! 

[paigow]

The Mayors of those Sundown towns near Ardham must be really in financial trouble or everyone is too scared to be a cop... 

[DearEvette]

2 minutes ago, Indigo Luna said:

I don't think so because the magic comes from Tic's moms side, not Montrose' and Georges. I think she just wanted her dead, and for good reason. Christina had a hand in her fathers death, and now her cousin. Shit I'd want her dead too, and why not use her new Terminator arm while she's at it! 

Yeah, the book of Adam being with Dora's family does suggest that.  But the first episode seemed to suggest it was the patrilineal line since Montrose had been kept prisoner at Ardham and George and Tic were invited to the gruesome liver dinner.  Either way, I still think something magical beyond her hand happened to her in that car.  She was awfully friendly with Tic's monster.

This is why we need some closure.  And epilogue...something...

[Scarlett45]

25 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Yeah, the book of Adam being with Dora's family does suggest that.  But the first episode seemed to suggest it was the patrilineal line since Montrose had been kept prisoner at Ardham and George and Tic were invited to the gruesome liver dinner.  Either way, I still think something magical beyond her hand happened to her in that car.  She was awfully friendly with Tic's monster.

This is why we need some closure.  And epilogue...something...

In Ji-Ah’s vision we see Tic transferring is allegiance to the vampire monster thing to Diana. 
 

No the magic isn’t in Tic’s patrilineal line- they kidnapped Montrose to lure Tic to Ardham, he had to come willingly. Tic is descended from Titus Braithwaite through his Mother.

 

And George/Montrose were invited to the dinner just because they were men, women weren’t allowed to attend. 

[LoveLeigh]

I agree with this review: DEN OF GEEK

[Scarlett45]

52 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Christina restored Leti's immortality because in the end, she did want to honor her promise to Ruby.  As fucked up as Christina is and even though she is a villain, she is the brand of villain that is cold and rational and not really emotional.  Her petty moment of taking it away was an emotional response and I think she regretted it.

I agree. And also Christina is not stupid or short sighted. If the spell didn’t work, and Tic still died, what was she going to do if his only possible descendent died too??? I always contend Christina spelled the fetus to ensure that she could have another chance at the spell when the next generation came of age. 

[paigow]

Hippolyta could be the next Tony Stark... She has prosthetic technology decades ahead of anyone. She could build a suit. Looks like Dee is going to break a lot of pencils...

Edited October 19, 2020 by paigow

[MrWhyt]

2 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

With Tic dying, how can there be a season 2? 

who says there has to be a season 2?

edit: also MAGIC!!!

Edited October 19, 2020 by MrWhyt

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

The only scene I liked was all of them in the car singing "Life Could Be a Dream.".

I liked that, too :). I actually started singing along with them-I've always liked that song. Now I want to go listen to it again. 

I also liked the song that was playing right before that one-that one I'd not heard before. I'll have to look on Tunefind later to see who it's by and what it's called. 

Quote

With Tic dying, how can there be a season 2? 

Given all the wacky supernatural stuff that happens on this show, I imagine they could probably figure out a way. Everyone's reaction to his death was quite poignant, though. 

One big takeaway I've had from this season: Don't get on Leti's bad side. 

This was quite the wild trip :D! If there is a season 2, it'll be interesting to see where they'll go from here. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

With Tic dying, how can there be a season 2? 

A. There's no rule saying that Tic has to be part of a S2. Nothing that says S2 has to take place with these characters, this time frame or anything. Indeed, with it being an anthology, they can just as easily focus on the remaining alive characters, fast-forward to the 80s and tell the story of George Freeman II , flashback to the past and tell stories of Samuel Braithwaite, young Dora, George and Montrose, introduce brand-new characters, etc.

B. Leti has been resurrected twice. If they want to tell more about Tic's story, they can resurrect him the once.

C. The multiverse machine means that there are presumably other dimensional versions of Tic to be found, as well as tales to be told from Tic's trip through the multiverse machine.

[thuganomics85]

Whelp, that certainly was a finale!

I'm not sure the exact moment I realized it, but at some point in the episode I began to realize that there wasn't going to be some kind of last minute save for Atticus, and he was actually going to get sacrificed in the end.  I guess it was seeing him almost accepting his fate and also getting pivotal scenes with those closet to him (Leti, Montrose, Ji-Ah), but I was surprisingly not that surprised (sorry) when he actually died.  Surprised the show went there.  Of course, I guess it is possible he could come back somehow (magic!), but I also wouldn't be surprised if this is truly it for him, and next season (and others?) will follow everyone else dealing with his absence.  It certainly sounds like Jonathan Majors is getting some big opportunities now (welcome to the MCU, buddy!), so maybe he was always going to be a "one season and done" player here.  But it could go either way.  No matter what, all of it was well done: especially Leti and Montrose's heartbreaking reactions.

At least Christina went out with him, although I certainly wouldn't have predicted her death to come at the robotic hand of Dee!  Classic Lovecraft Country with the outlandish swerve!  Too bad it sounds like Ruby is gone too.  She wasn't the most likable character here, but I found her to be one of the more layered and fascinating ones.

Happy that Ji-Ah ended up factoring back in and got to play off the rest of the cast here.  I hope they keep her involved going forward.

How will Dee and everyone else explain the whole robotic hand thing?  Maybe they'll hope everyone will be too distracted by Hippolyta's blue hair...

The "Life Could Be a Dream" sing along was the highlight.  Even if that wasn't actually Ruby.  In particular, I got a kick out of Montrose holding out as much as he could, but even he couldn't resist in the end!

Liked them bringing Hattie, Hanna, and Dora into the fold as well.

Overall, I understand the criticisms about this particular episode being messy and more scattershot compared the previous episodes (it did feel like it should have been longer), but it still made me excited for what is to come, and all in all, this was still a pretty successful first season for me.  I'm glad I checked it out, because it truly was one of the craziest, most unpredictable, and delightfully insane shows I've seen, and I loved almost every minute of it.  And, of course, fantastic acting, with Jonathan Majors, Jurnee Smollett, and Michael Kenneth Williams doing great jobs as the leads, and some standout performances from the likes of Aunjanue Ellis, Wunmi Mosaku, Courtney B. Vance, and Jamie Chung.  I can't wait to see what Misha Green and company do next!

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

This needed an extra 10-20 minutes.  I needed more closure! And some explanation.

On the one hand this was satisfying in that the different parts pulled together and the good guys 'won' after a fashion.

Overall I think the parts were better than the sum.  I loved the salt circle and all the women ancestors.  I liked the summoning and the destruction of Titus. I liked the Ruby switcheroo even though I hate that Ruby had to die.  It was a textbook eleventh hour "twist"  that is absolutely a trope that is a staple of the sci-fi pulp that this episode played into.  I loved the sing-a-long.  Again textbook lighthearted moment to release tension before the heavy stuff goes down.

But I think this will go down as probably my least favorite episode of the season.  It felt rushed and disconnected and a little too oblique for its own good. 

Some guesses about things:

Hipplolyta took Dee on a quick future trip and had her arm replaced.

I think Leti reclaiming the magic affected Dee. This is after all her blood family and her magic too now.  She must have gained some knowledge from the ancestors.  Her face was much too 'knowing' when she killed Christina in the end.

Christina restored Leti's immortality because in the end, she did want to honor her promise to Ruby.  As fucked up as Christina is and even though she is a villain, she is the brand of villain that is cold and rational and not really emotional.  Her petty moment of taking it away was an emotional response and I think she regretted it.

I agree that Hippolyta likely brought Dee somewhere to get "upgraded." It could also be that we saw an alt-universe version of Dee.

I don't think Christina had anything to do with Leti coming back to life this second time. I think that we are neant to believe the power of God/faith/love helped bring Leti back as Christina was draining off of Tic's energy, and some stray energy from him revived Leti. 

[HC87]

I dunno....just found this series a hot mess in general....tried to do too much, too many cooks in the kitchen etc....a noble failure imo

[aghst]

How did Christina’s immortality spell fail her?  Not clear how the snakes from the eyes canceled Christina’s immortality — oh and good thing the snakes didn’t come out of other orifices.

Also where did the people from the corn come from?

And there was a that multi-tongue monster which menaced Dee but the other one saved her?

[paigow]

7 minutes ago, aghst said:

Also where did the people from the corn come from?

And there was a that multi-tongue monster which menaced Dee but the other one saved her?

They are villagers that lived near the mansion - the white lady that Ruby morphed into was one of them

The one that saved Dee is the same one that saved Tic from the cops. It was linked to his invulnerability spell that Montrose [luckily] read correctly. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

5 hours ago, aghst said:

How did Christina’s immortality spell fail her?  Not clear how the snakes from the eyes canceled Christina’s immortality — oh and good thing the snakes didn’t come out of other orifices.

Also where did the people from the corn come from?

And there was a that multi-tongue monster which menaced Dee but the other one saved her?

Christina started off being invulnerable and was trying to cast a spell that would make her immortal, using Tic's blood. 

Samuel Braithwaite had to give up his invulnerbility spell in order to cast his failed goin'-back-to-Eden-to--Eden-to-Eden spell, according to Christina. Christina said that most people can only have one spell going on at a time.

So it could be that Christina was in a similar boat and had to give up her invulnernability to even attempt her immortality spell.

Or it could be simply that she was still invulnerable, but that her invulnerability didn't mean that she couldn't be physically affected by things. We saw recently that she was able to experience being beaten, choked and drowned, although she came back from that quickly. 

It could be that she was still invulnerable to normal mortal forms of harm (guns, drowning, etc), but that her spell doesn't protect her from magical attacks in general or Ji-Ah's form of magic in particular.

It could be that Ji-Ah didn't set her tails to "kill" if ou will. All she needed to do was achieve some level of connection to Christina's body and blood for the counterspell to work. (And Ji-Ah has nine tails and they do come out of other orificies. I guess this time she only needed  two?)

5 hours ago, paigow said:

They are villagers that lived near the mansion - the white lady that Ruby morphed into was one of them

The one that saved Dee is the same one that saved Tic from the cops. It was linked to hiulnerability spell that Montrose [luckily] read correctly. 

I agree, except that Montrose cast a protection spell rather than an invulnerability spell. That spell resulted in Tic having a pet black shoggoth, which I guess either must have tunnelled some how, teleported or taken Evil Elevator to make it from Chicago to Ardham. Or maybe this is a second friendly shoggoth.

[Robert Lynch]

I don't know how they would continue this show now.

[LoveLeigh]

13 minutes ago, Robert Lynch said:

I don't know how they would continue this show now.

Maybe like True Detective: with a whole new cast and characters and story plot. 

[paigow]

3 hours ago, Robert Lynch said:

I don't know how they would continue this show now.

A season of George Freeman 2 struggling to write a sequel (insert Game Of Thrones joke here)

Edited October 19, 2020 by paigow

[Chicago Redshirt]

16 minutes ago, Robert Lynch said:

I don't know how they would continue this show now.

Again, this show is less like black-1950s-Supernatural and more like black-1950s-Twilight-Zone.  Even with a mandate of using most of the same characters, there's a ton of backstory that got left on the table within and between episodes that they could revisit.

For example:

1. How did the town of Ardham and the surrounding area react to the destruction of Braithwaite Manor and the death of racist sheriff?

2. How did any of the 34 remaining lodges react, and what are they up to?

3. How has pioneering gone for the rest of the people in Leti's boarding house? What other shiznit was Hiram up to?

4. What else happened during Hippolyta and Dee's trip to Ardham?

5. What has Ji-Ah been up to in the years since she and Tic split? Why has she not taken the 100th soul? Or has she?

6. For that matter, what was Tic's life in Florida like?

7. What exactly was going on with Captain Lancaster?

8. What other multiverses are there to explore?

9. Delving more into Montrose's backstory and Tic's child and young adulthood. We still don't know much about Dora, whether Tick is George's or Mnntrose's 

10. Filling in the gaps of Christina's childhood.

Basically, every episode we had this season probably could suggest a whole episode or two of either backstory behind it or followup. 

And specifically going forwrard from this episode, there was supposedly a game change -- white people don't have access to magic, while black people do. That raises all sorts of potentially interesting questions, such as the ways in which white people will still have power despite lacking magic, how permanent that shift will be, whether black people (and Latino people and Asian people and others who retain magic) will then mimic the structures and mistakes and oppression of white magic users or create their own paths, if our remaining heroes will have a special obligation to act now that they have magic, what else they can learn from the Book of Names, etc.

[sempervivum]

I usually miss the first few minutes of this show, but the MA rating for this episode specifies 'low violence'. 😲

This is a minor point, but what was that part of Titus that Tic removed for the spell, and later ATE? When he started sawing away, I assumed it would be the heart, but it just looked like a piece of skin?

How predictable that Tic would die 'on the Cross'.

[luckyroll3]

13 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

With Tic dying, how can there be a season 2? 

 

11 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

edit: also MAGIC!!!

 

10 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

C. The multiverse machine means that there are presumably other dimensional versions of Tic to be found, as well as tales to be told from Tic's trip through the multiverse machine.

Tic is technically an ancestor now, so he could possibly exist in that space with the flames that was created when the original ancestor tried to bind the book.  

[Cornhusker12]

9 hours ago, HC87 said:

I dunno....just found this series a hot mess in general....tried to do too much, too many cooks in the kitchen etc....a noble failure imo

Yeah this is where I landed as well. Watching the finale made me realize that they tried to fit an entire "extended cinematic universe" into the shape of a 10-episode TV show. Each episode was so distinct and only tangentially related to the others that they almost felt like separate shows/movies. Which could have been fine, but the mythology and details that the episodes shared were so intricate and confusing that they were borderline unintelligible. Bringing elements from each individual installment together into the finale as if it was a big "Avengers" style extended universe event didn't work well for me because the gaps between the individual installments were never explained or filled in. It felt like the detours taken in individual episodes needed several MORE episodes each filled with explanation and connective tissue for the plotting to add up in some way.

Anyway, it was still definitely worth watching and I'm glad I tuned in every week! It had truly incredible acting and production design and historical symbolism that I was inspired by and really appreciated, and had some of the most harrowing and eye-opening portrayals of the darkness of our society that I've ever seen. But I hope if the show continues they choose to nail down the "who/what/when/where/why" of it all a LOT more. I appreciate mystery and ambiguity, but this veered past those things and into messiness haha.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Cornhusker12

[tennisgurl]

We come full circle this week, back in Lovecraft country fighting pitchfork wielding rednecks and big toothy abominations and evil blood rituals as a Braithwhite tries to become immortal. Also coming full circle, in my first post in the first episode, I talked a lot about Lovecraft as an author, and how his many fears and severe anxiety bleed into his work and in his life, and about his racism and fear of anyone and anything different from him. Much of his work revolved around these horrible unknowing monsters that existed out in the cosmos who are uncaring of humanity and see the human species are tiny flies to swat and that we are utterly insignificant to the uncaring universe. He was also super racist, even by the standards of his own time, and thought that anyone not exactly like him was scary and bad and probably a fish person, and he was generally scared of anything that he could not understand, be it technology, society, or other people, and found them to be highly suspect. Magic, technology, people that are unlike him, all were scary things not to be messed with and were almost certainly evil. This show in many respects was a critique of that mindset, most obviously of racism, but also about the evils of technology, magic, and the cosmos. The show, while about magic and the multiverse and monsters and ghosts and stuff, is even more about the horrors of racism than the horrors of monsters, and the most monstrous beings we meet are not the big creatures with the pointy teeth or the ghouls or ghosts, they are just regular people who are cruel and filled with hatred and violence and murder innocent people just because of the color or their skin. But also, while Lovecraft saw the cosmos as cold and cruel and evil, we saw a cosmos through Hippolyta that was beautiful and loving and empowering where she saw the universe as wonderous and alive, and beings that were the farthest thing from evil. Ji-ah, while dangerous, is far more tragic than evil, and only wants to be free from the darkness and to have a real life, and while she is told that, as an inhuman being, that she has no real feelings or can experience love, its clear that neither of those things are true. Technology allowed Dee to have an arm again and gave the heroes a fighting chance against the hords of dark magicians and racists that they had to deal with. And while Tics ancestor thought that the magic she had found was evil and from the devil, she eventually realized that it was a gift that could be used to protect her family, and that magic could be used for evil, but could also be used for good. So while Lovecraft saw the unknown as scary and evil, the show more focused on the unknown as potentially dangerous, but also wonderous and benevolent if used properly and for the purposes of creation, and not destruction. 

That all being said, its not a one to one deconstruction of Lovecraftian themes. Much of this show lines up quite well with Lovecraft stories, like the creepy cults and the bloodlines of magic and the evil rural people with their pitchforks and old timie clothes, as the work is also a celebration of genre conventions, even Lovecraftian ones that they are also interested in deconstructing. Much like what Tic said back in the beginnings, stories are like people. They dont have to be perfect for you to love them. 

I loved this show, but I do think that this episode was my least favorite of the season, it felt rather stitched together in ways that the other episodes felt very cohesive, like they had a lot of cool ideas, but hadn't totally figured out how to make them into one episode that would close out the season. I was surprised that Tic died, but in retrospect it makes sense based on everything we saw, and while I really didn't want him to die, I still wonder if he is really gone for real, especially if we get a season two. There are still probably ways to bring him back, or we could meet a Tic from another part of the multiverse, or he could show up in the afterlife as one of the ancestors, there are a lot of ways for him to still be a part of the story. I get why they decided to kill him off I guess, but him not getting to raise his son and going all through this to die is just really sad to me. This episode felt like it was in such a hurry to wrap up, that we have a lot of dangling plot threads left, or things that were only partially explained or explored, so while we got lots of good scenes and ideas, like Ji-ah using her powers at the climax to take down Christina, the female ancestors all summoning the old slave owner, and of course, the car sing along, which was just a delight, they did not quite come together the way previous episode did. I still have tons of questions, and unless we get another season with the same characters, I guess we will never know. I am also sad that Ruby not only died, but died offscreen. Ruby wasn't always the most likable character, but she was very interesting and I did feel sympathy towards her and her struggles with the world around her. 

Even if I didn't love the episode, I did love the show, and I would be thrilled to get another season, be it about these characters, with possibly Leti as the star, or if its about other people in the same universe. 

[paigow]

Leti has NOT forgotten how to run...was worried that she would WALK back to the human sacrifice...

[Chicago Redshirt]

I agree that this episode felt rushed. There weren't so much with the scary and tense and gross moments that were part of every episode up till now. I don't know if that's just me or what. It just felt anticlimactic, unearned, and sloppy in a way that most of the season did not.

To start from the top: when we last saw Our Heroes, they were in Kentucky at Epstein's observatory, having successfully recovered the Book of Names in a race against time. Why did they drive all the way back to Chicago instead of trying to cure Dee at the observatory or a nearby motel or wherever? That's got to be adding 5 hours at least. 

Our Heroes go from barely knowing any magic to being able to not only out-spell a veteran witch in Christina who has inside knowledge of what they are doing but also strip all white people of their magic everywhere. Yes, it's Hanna's spell, and I can buy that time passed differently on the ancestral plane so they had an opportunity to learn and perfect it. But they couldn't even pull off what seems like it would be much simpler, lifting the curse and healing Dee 100 percent.

All season long, we've been hearing about how much of a bad-ass Titus Braithwaite is. So the sequence where he gets summoned and pretty quickly smacked down...disappointing. I get that his rep might have been overblown and that Our Heroes had a lot of help. But still...beating him was super easy, barely an inconvenience, when if the show had more runway, that could be a full episode in and of itself.

To be sure, there were good parts. I liked the discussions on the ancestral plane and in the church.  I loved the sing-a-long to "Sh'Boom" (And actually, thinking about that, it occurs to me how that is a hint that it was really Chruby, not Ruby. When we first were introduced to Real Ruby, she was singing at the block party and asked what the crowd wanted to hear next. She dissed "Sh'Boom" as "Sh'Boring." So why was she leading the singalong here?)

 But let's just talk about characters:

Tic: There was a whole lot of redemption arc that just got super-compressed. I would have wanted him to have more (any?) discussions with Leti about their impending son and the ramifications of what they were doing. I don't know if the one conversation with Ji-Ah about his feelings being real makes up for what a douche he was to her, or adequately deals with him being in love with Leti now. I don't get why the rush to be at Ardham for the fall equinox, when presumably, not doing it means that Tic is safe at least till another three months for the winter solstice or another powerful point. Was it ever made clear what caused Tic's death, other than he wanted to sacrifice himself? I'm operating under the assumption that the spell doesn't work unless Tic voluntarily cooperates. So why doesn't he just say, "See you, wouldn't want to be you?"

Leti: Even Jesus only died once for our sins, OK? Lke with Tic, I would have liked more time for her to reflect on all the crazy that is going on around her.  It makes me sad that her last apparent conversation with Real!Ruby was getting told that she still only approached Ruby when she wants something. It was sort of anticlimactic reveal that the reason she didn't go to her mother's funeral was because she was in jail. Why didn't she say so in the first place? I guess that is a sign of how distant the sisters were. As is the notion that Christina could play Ruby for what had to be a half-day without Leti noticing. I'd like to think that there would be dozens of little tells that would make it obvious to someone that this it wasn't really Ruby, especially considering Christina just isn't that good an actor and doesn't know black people or culture or have empathy.  

Montrose: What happened to the pragmatic Montrose, the literally cutthroat Montrose who would do anything to keep his family safe? That guy probably would have pointed out how it's a Bad Idea to go back to Ardham or looking for trouble. Again, there could and should have been time to rest with the notion that he just re-experienced some deep childhood trauma and he just found out that he was saved by his time-traveling son. 

Christina:  In coming full circle, I'm not sure if the issue with the character is the writing or the acting. I did think of the possibility in the abstract that Christina was cozying up to Ruby for an in to the circle fo Our Heroes and that she might morph into her, but I didn't realize that she had done so until early in the scene with the reveal. Christina sucks as a witch for not being able to disrupt the spell that Our Heroes were casting while undercover as Ruby. She sucks as a villain for not being able to use the townfolk to separate or otherwise occupy Our Heroes while she cast the spell. There should have been some greater reaction to the sudden appearance of Titus. Not that it matters at this point, but I think she actually did care for Ruby in her own way, given her reaction in the crash. So did I understand correctly that she is saying that William is still technically alive? Is it possible Real! Ruby is as well, or is William just kept alive because she finds it useful to flip into him, whereas Ruby's usefulness was exhausted?

Ji-Ah: I would have wanted her to have more to do than to basically be a plot device. Her tell-off of the horny white guy at the Drake Hotel was pretty epic, though. Although, I bet there are some people who would be like, "Yeah, I might risk it!" or "Well I wouldn't die to fuck you, but how about a little discomfort for a blow job?"

Hippolyta: Given that she has the accumulated wisdom of all her time in the universe, she was pretty much a non-factor in this ep. 

Dee: First of all, screw all the adults for repeating the mistake of leaving her by herself in Woody in the dark. They just saved her after ignoring her led to Lancaster being able to curse her. No one learned that damn lesson? She literally could have been anywhere between Chicago and Ardham and it would have been safer for her. Then the show had to have her, as a 12ish-year-old, join the Cold-Blooded Killers' Club. (Along with Tic, Montrose, and Ji-Ah). I get it's supposed to be satisfying to have Christina gone, but considering she had a big ass piece of masonry on her, has no magic, and no one's around to help her, it's hard to say that the death was necessary for anything but to show off robo-arm. I would have liked there to be a comment about her travel comics. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Chicago Redshirt

[DearEvette]

15 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I loved the sing-a-long to "Sh'Boom" (And actually, thinking about that, it occurs to me how that is a hint that it was really Chruby, not Ruby. When we first were introduced to Real Ruby, she was singing at the block party and asked what the crowd wanted to hear next. She dissed "Sh'Boom" as "Sh'Boring." So why was she leading the singalong here?)

My first hint that Ruby wasn't Ruby was there as a point when the camera panned over her face and her eyes had a silvery-grey sheen, just for a minute -- just like Christina's eyes.  I passed it off as being a trick of the light, but then it happened again during the sing along and that was when I thought... huh.... maybe....

[Sheenieb]

Quote

I agree that this episode felt rushed. There weren't so much with the scary and tense and gross moments that were part of every episode up till now. I don't know if that's just me or what. It just felt anticlimactic, unearned, and sloppy in a way that most of the season did not.

Right, that's my issue with the finale as well. The previous episodes were moving and really played on the emotions. While the finale had parts that did the same, in its totality, to me, it was meh. 

What I liked:

• The scene where Tic clearly accepted his fate while looking at his family at the garage. 
• Tic's letter to Montrose. I know that the theme of the series was redemption and not pulling trauma through to the next generation, so it was a nice touch when Tic said that baby George will be Montrose's chance to be a father and not to waste it. 
• Dee's Terminator arm.
• Everyone singing in Woody.

The Book of Names turned out to be kind of a dud. I can't believe there wasn't some spell in that big-ass book to not only thwart Christina, but to save Tic. 

While there were a few moments of tenderness between Leti and Tic, it stuck out to me that Tic was softer towards Ji-Ah than Leti. I would've also preferred for Leti and Tic to have a sit down like he had with Ji-Ah and just talk. Leti/Tic never discussed or processed that they were having a child. A scene between them discussing how they both felt about their son growing up fatherless would've been appreciated.

I'm going to rewatch to make sure that I have this part right, but I also didn't understand why everyone was standing around while Christina sacrificed Tic. If there was any time for Ji-Ah's tails to make an appearance, it would've been before Christina sliced Tic. Hippolyta was a whole-ass warrior in the multiverse and nothing? 

4 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Dee: First of all, screw all the adults for repeating the mistake of leaving her by herself in Woody in the dark. She literally could have been anywhere between Chicago and Ardham and it would have been safer for her. Then the show had to have her, as a 12ish-year-old, join the Cold-Blooded Killers' Club

It made sense to me that Dee was the one that took out Christina. She read about Bobo's killers being acquitted, so at that moment, when she saw Christina, she knew that if left alive, Christina would somehow be saved to come after them again, so she had to go. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Sheenieb

[tennisgurl]

Interesting that, in the book 

Spoiler

Both George and Tic survive the whole story. I suppose they killed George to give Tic more time making peace with Montrose, but I am curious about why they decided to kill Tic. For extra tragedy? So that Montrose could redeem himself as a father? I do wonder if they thought Montrose was a more interesting character, so they killed George off to give him more screen time, or maybe to give Hippolyta a different story, which I think is too bad because George still had a lot of potential as a character in the main story. I also am not sure why they decided to have Tic die, especially in the way that he did. They just wanted to be the kind of show that kills their hero?

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by tennisgurl

[Scarlett45]

22 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

They have got to stop leaving Dee in dangerous locations and not listening when she is freaking out about stuff! I am about five minutes from jumping into Hippolyta's multiverse machine, finding the Lovecraft Countryverse, and offering my babysitting services! 

Interesting that, in the book 

  Hide contents

Both George and Tic survive the whole story. I suppose they killed George to give Tic more time making peace with Montrose, but I am curious about why they decided to kill Tic. For extra tragedy? So that Montrose could redeem himself as a father? 

 

I was surprised they left Dee in the car without even a gun, but when I saw she had the protection of the black vampire monster thing AND the bionic arm I knew she would be just fine. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

It made sense to me that Dee was the one that took out Christina. She read about Bobo's killers being acquitted, so at that moment, when she saw Christina, she knew that if left alive, Christina would somehow be saved to come after them again, so she had to go. 

I get that arguably even magicless Christina still is a threat and she got to go. But other than the Rule of Cool - showing off robo-arm and Black Shoggoth (Shady Goth) is now her pet, there's little reason why it should be Dee who kills her. 

Pretty much everyone there had as much reason to want Christina dead and had equal or better access to kill her and experience killing (with the exception of Leti, who I don't think has actually killed anyone living).

Leti loved Tic and had previously been shot in shenanigans that Christina had a role in, plus has been told that Christina killed her sister.  Plus Christina just directly threw her out of a tower and Christina's dad shot her. We're supposed to think that Leti would have let Christina live after being responsible for the deaths of two of the people she loved the most in the world AND her (even though she got better)?

Montrose slit the throat of a woman who posed a potential threat to his family only in the abstract. We're supposed to believe that he is not going to avenge his son's death or recognize that a still-breathing Christina is still a threat?

Ji-Ah also loved Tic, to the point where she thought she could transcend being an inhuman monster who has explicitly killed 99 men at a minimum. And in connecting to Christina presumably got some level of understanding of her past and potential future. And we're supposed to think that Ji-Ah also let Christina live? 

As far as we know, Dee's not even aware directly that Christina's father killed her father. 

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I was surprised they left Dee in the car without even a gun, but when I saw she had the protection of the black vampire monster thing AND the bionic arm I knew she would be just fine. 

Shady Goth is apparently powerful. But it was a one-on-one fight. I don't know if he could necessarily prevail against like multiple shoggoths like there were in the first episode. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Chicago Redshirt

[LoveLeigh]

Maybe Tic is not dead and they were planning a season 2 like in Game of Thrones when Jon Snow comes back to life? 

[shoetingstar]

I think I'm supposed to be upset about Tic dying, but while I'm upset at the way he died and his suffering. It's RUBY I am in deep mourning over. They should not have killed her, she did not have to die to make the episode's point.  

[carrps]

On 10/18/2020 at 7:06 PM, DakotaLavender said:

And I hated the actress who played Christina. I think that role was miscast. Her blond wig was terrible too. 

I saw her in a podcast after the first episode. She's Australian, and she transitioned from modelling to acting -- which is only occasionally a good career path. So, doing an accent, wearing a prosthetic to cover her tooth gap, and just not being that good? She wasn't good. But I wasn't a fan of Jonathan Majors here, either. From the Tom Cruise Acting School, he also has just two expressions, and both of them make him like he's constipated. I was most impressed with Ruby (Wunmi Mosaku). She managed to make Ruby a sympathetic character, when she's shown as working at cross purposes to our "gang" and not someone we're being primed to root for.

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by carrps
Ack! Ruby NOT Rudy.

[carrps]

21 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

I agree with this review: DEN OF GEEK

Thanks! I really liked that review and agreed with nearly all of it. She raised some things I never even thought of, too.

[kay1864]

12 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

That spell resulted in Tic having a pet black shoggoth, which I guess either must have tunnelled some how, teleported or taken Evil Elevator to make it from Chicago to Ardham.

 Well we know that you can always fit everything you need into Woody!

[kay1864]

1.  Anyone else notice that at no time while bound were Tic’s *hands* bound? When he realized Christina‘s betrayal, seems he could have just unstrapped himself.

2. The scene of the cemetery really highlighted the difference in skin color for Leti and Ruby. They looked like half-sisters. I don’t believe you normally get that much variation, especially in a family that is apparently not biracial.

[Cotypubby]

On 10/18/2020 at 11:36 PM, DakotaLavender said:

I agree with this review: DEN OF GEEK

This review is spot on!

I just had no emotional reaction to any of the events in the finale. I don’t care that Tic died, Ruby’s “death” (if she is even actually dead, I never believe people are dead in shows like this unless we see it happen) being off-screen and spoken about in the past tense takes the emotion out of it.

How did Leti get invulnerable again?

One of the biggest problems is that up until the second half of the finale, Christina wasn’t really the Big Bad villain that we were itching to see get her comeuppance. Until the very end, all she’s done has been to help Our Heroes, even though it was done to keep them safe for her spell, she really didn’t seem that bad. So the showdown at the end was like, meh. The racists in the earlier episodes were way worse. The shoggoths slaughtering the racist cops made me cheer. Christina being killed by Dee, of all people, with a robotic Terminator arm 🙄made me think “That’s it?”
 

And did we ever get any kind of answer, even something magical, as to why Lancaster had the torso of a Black man? 
 

I thought Jonathan Majors was excellent in “The Last Black Man in San Francisco,” but here it seemed like he had only one facial expression of tightly pursed lips like he smelled something bad. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Cotypubby

[Macbeth]

19 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

We come full circle this week, back in Lovecraft country fighting pitchfork wielding rednecks and big toothy abominations and evil blood rituals as a Braithwhite tries to become immortal. Also coming full circle, in my first post in the first episode, I talked a lot about Lovecraft as an author, and how his many fears and severe anxiety bleed into his work and in his life, and about his racism and fear of anyone and anything different from him. Much of his work revolved around these horrible unknowing monsters that existed out in the cosmos who are uncaring of humanity and see the human species are tiny flies to swat and that we are utterly insignificant to the uncaring universe. He was also super racist, even by the standards of his own time, and thought that anyone not exactly like him was scary and bad and probably a fish person, and he was generally scared of anything that he could not understand, be it technology, society, or other people, and found them to be highly suspect. Magic, technology, people that are unlike him, all were scary things not to be messed with and were almost certainly evil. This show in many respects was a critique of that mindset, most obviously of racism, but also about the evils of technology, magic, and the cosmos. The show, while about magic and the multiverse and monsters and ghosts and stuff, is even more about the horrors of racism than the horrors of monsters, and the most monstrous beings we meet are not the big creatures with the pointy teeth or the ghouls or ghosts, they are just regular people who are cruel and filled with hatred and violence and murder innocent people just because of the color or their skin. But also, while Lovecraft saw the cosmos as cold and cruel and evil, we saw a cosmos through Hippolyta that was beautiful and loving and empowering where she saw the universe as wonderous and alive, and beings that were the farthest thing from evil. Ji-ah, while dangerous, is far more tragic than evil, and only wants to be free from the darkness and to have a real life, and while she is told that, as an inhuman being, that she has no real feelings or can experience love, its clear that neither of those things are true. Technology allowed Dee to have an arm again and gave the heroes a fighting chance against the hords of dark magicians and racists that they had to deal with. And while Tics ancestor thought that the magic she had found was evil and from the devil, she eventually realized that it was a gift that could be used to protect her family, and that magic could be used for evil, but could also be used for good. So while Lovecraft saw the unknown as scary and evil, the show more focused on the unknown as potentially dangerous, but also wonderous and benevolent if used properly and for the purposes of creation, and not destruction. 

That all being said, its not a one to one deconstruction of Lovecraftian themes. Much of this show lines up quite well with Lovecraft stories, like the creepy cults and the bloodlines of magic and the evil rural people with their pitchforks and old timie clothes, as the work is also a celebration of genre conventions, even Lovecraftian ones that they are also interested in deconstructing. Much like what Tic said back in the beginnings, stories are like people. They dont have to be perfect for you to love them. 

I loved this show, but I do think that this episode was my least favorite of the season, it felt rather stitched together in ways that the other episodes felt very cohesive, like they had a lot of cool ideas, but hadn't totally figured out how to make them into one episode that would close out the season. I was surprised that Tic died, but in retrospect it makes sense based on everything we saw, and while I really didn't want him to die, I still wonder if he is really gone for real, especially if we get a season two. There are still probably ways to bring him back, or we could meet a Tic from another part of the multiverse, or he could show up in the afterlife as one of the ancestors, there are a lot of ways for him to still be a part of the story. I get why they decided to kill him off I guess, but him not getting to raise his son and going all through this to die is just really sad to me. This episode felt like it was in such a hurry to wrap up, that we have a lot of dangling plot threads left, or things that were only partially explained or explored, so while we got lots of good scenes and ideas, like Ji-ah using her powers at the climax to take down Christina, the female ancestors all summoning the old slave owner, and of course, the car sing along, which was just a delight, they did not quite come together the way previous episode did. I still have tons of questions, and unless we get another season with the same characters, I guess we will never know. I am also sad that Ruby not only died, but died offscreen. Ruby wasn't always the most likable character, but she was very interesting and I did feel sympathy towards her and her struggles with the world around her. 

Even if I didn't love the episode, I did love the show, and I would be thrilled to get another season, be it about these characters, with possibly Leti as the star, or if its about other people in the same universe. 

I really agree with this post.

I think Lovecraft Country like the Watchmen was a way of deconstructing the stories to expose the inherent racism and then making it their own tales where African Americans have the power.  

I am really glad I watched this series.  I started a couple of weeks ago.

Ruby's death affected me more than Tic's.  And I am also not happy that Dee ended up killing Christina.  I think it was just to show off the robotic arm. 

 

 

[paigow]

8 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

I thought Jonathan Majors was excellent in “The Last Black Man in San Francisco,” but here it seemed like he had only one facial expression of tightly pursed lips like he smelled something bad. 

Maybe his frequent shirtless scenes reduced his facial flexibility

Edited October 20, 2020 by paigow

[Chicago Redshirt]

13 hours ago, kay1864 said:

 Well we know that you can always fit everything you need into Woody!

I look forward to the extended cut where Shady Goth is providing some baritone in Sh-Boom! 🙂

12 hours ago, kay1864 said:

1.  Anyone else notice that at no time while bound were Tic’s *hands* bound? When he realized Christina‘s betrayal, seems he could have just unstrapped himself.

2. The scene of the cemetery really highlighted the difference in skin color for Leti and Ruby. They looked like half-sisters. I don’t believe you normally get that much variation, especially in a family that is apparently not biracial.

I think the emphasis was on Tic being a willing sacrifice so actually restraining him wasn't necessary.

I can't remember specifically when, but I think it is explicitly said that Ruby and Leti are half-sisters. I have been operating under the assumption that Leti's father is either white or a very light-skinned black man. Now that I think about it, though, there has not been any explicit mention about Leti's father at all, whether he's dead or alive or who he might be, what his  relationship was with Leti or Leti's mom, etc.

10 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

How did Leti get invulnerable again?

One of the biggest problems is that up until the second half of the finale, Christina wasn’t really the Big Bad villain that we were itching to see get her comeuppance. Until the very end, all she’s done has been to help Our Heroes, even though it was done to keep them safe for her spell, she really didn’t seem that bad. So the showdown at the end was like, meh. The racists in the earlier episodes were way worse. The shoggoths slaughtering the racist cops made me cheer. Christina being killed by Dee, of all people, with a robotic Terminator arm 🙄made me think “That’s it?”
 

And did we ever get any kind of answer, even something magical, as to why Lancaster had the torso of a Black man? 

Leti traded Christina copies of the Book of Names pages they rescued from the museum for invulnerability. Originally Leti wanted invulnerability for Tic, but Christina gave it to her instead. And then she took it away.

If done better or acted better, Christina could and should have been far scarier. Racists in the mode of Lancaster, Samuel Braithwaite, and the garden-variety ones like in the diner are no doubt scary, but one can spot them coming from a mile away and make whatever preparations one can. But the sort of racist who can sidle up to you, pretend they are down for the cause and then stab you in the back unexpectedly?  That's a whole different level  of scary and betrayal. But either the writers or the actress (probably both) didn't pull off that level of ambiguity or nuance that would have made Christina a truly great villain. 

Chrilliam essentially gave us what we were going to get about Lancaster: that Lancaster was using body parts from black people to extend his life. 

[rollacoaster]

This article explores the problematic treatment of Ruby, and also Hippolyta and Dee:

https://www.themarysue.com/lovecraft-country-ruby-deserved-better/