S01.E09: Rewind 1921

[nodorothyparker]

Airdate 2020.10.11

Quote

With Hippolyta at the helm, Leti, Tic, and Montrose travel to 1921 Tulsa in an effort to save Dee.

 

[peridot]

I don't get why Ruby is ok with Tic being murdered.  Does she think that Leti will forgive her for letting the father of her child be murdered?
Based on what she said to Christina, is she now going to find a red-headed woman and take her skin? 

The events of 1921 and seeing how abuse is passed through the generations was tragic.  Montrose has been been through a lot, I half expected him to commit suicide in the hotel room. 

The corrupt cop was literally ripping flesh off a black man to staple onto himself?!  I'm glad he actually died this time.

I really want to see how the team explained the "gas explosion" in their neighborhood.  Where did the monster go?

[paigow]

Was it dramatic slow-motion or was Leti WALKING back to the portal?

Tic is THE PROTAGONIST... The book should be called Tenet Country ... He had to be born so he could travel back to the past and save his parents & uncle so he could be born in the future to save them... lather , rinse, repeat

Edited October 12, 2020 by paigow

[Robert Lynch]

That's Audra McDonald singing, correct? Her voice is pretty recognizable. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Robert Lynch

[rollacoaster]

"When my great, great grandson is born, he will be my faith turned flesh."

😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

Edited October 12, 2020 by rollacoaster
Right words matter

[DearEvette]

I love hearing Hippolyta speaking modern day 'tech' speak.  Also she became a literal motherboard to save her child.

Unless Ruby is playing her very own deep game with Christina, then she is dead to me.  But then again if, not she is a perfect illustration of the saying "all skinfolk ain't kinfolk" and of course the shameful history of black people selling out other blacks to white people for their own personal gain.  I hope she doesn't let me down.

The scene between Leti and Tic's great great grandmother was powerful.  I had no idea Leti was also impervious to fire so her invulnerability is total.  Cool.

The whole Tulsa massacre thing just makes me so very, very sad.  The lost potential is really hard to contemplate.  And the pure malice and hate behind it just hurts my heart. I will say the set looked a lot like The Watchmen's 1921 Tulsa set.  I know that there are historical photos both drew from so there are some obvious places where there have to be similarities, but I thought the square where Montrose and Tic were looked a lot like the one I saw in The Watchmen. 

I was sure that Montrose was gonna mess everything up or that he was going to elect to stay and die there.  And I know it was all for drama but I couldn't help but think... "Leti you are wearing sneakers.  Run girl. We don't have time for you to do a soulful slo-mo through the fire."

This was a good episode, quieter and more contemplative and touching.

One more to go!

[kay1864]

1 hour ago, peridot said:

I really want to see how the team explained the "gas explosion" in their neighborhood.  Where did the monster go?

Yes that is odd. William saw the effect on the Captain, so I’m surprised that Christina didn’t see through that story.

1 hour ago, paigow said:

Was it dramatic slow-motion or was Leti WALKING back to the portal?

 Yes, wtf happened to “we don’t have much time, we’ve got to find that book”? 

Edited October 12, 2020 by kay1864

[kay1864]

53 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I had no idea Leti was also impervious to fire so her invulnerability is total.

 She sure was confident that her invincibility still worked in 1921, wasn’t she? 

[kay1864]

58 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I will say the set looked a lot like The Watchmen's 1921 Tulsa set. 

 Watchmen had the major destruction occurring during the day. Lovecraft showed it at night. Wikipedia says it started after sunset. I guess Watchmen wanted us to see more of the extent of the horrific event, which nighttime can obscure.

Edited October 12, 2020 by kay1864

[ShellsandCheese]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

Unless Ruby is playing her very own deep game with Christina, then she is dead to me.  But then again if, not she is a perfect illustration of the saying "all skinfolk ain't kinfolk" and of course the shameful history of black people selling out other blacks to white people for their own personal gain.  I hope she doesn't let me down.

I just think Ruby's top priority is her sister. She knows Christina is up to no good, and she wants to make sure her sister and her sister's child are safe. It makes perfect sense. If I was in her shoes, I wouldn't be worried about Atticus either. 

Also, it's mind boggling to me how many people and black people in particular are still okay with whupping their kids. Talk about passing down trauma and abuse.   

Edited October 12, 2020 by ShellsandCheese

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

The scene between Leti and Tic's great great grandmother was powerful. 

Yes, it was. Everything with the back and forth between the fire and the shootings and beatings in the street was incredibly haunting and eerie. Especially with that poem being recited in the background on top of it all. Honestly got the shivers. Between that and the flies buzzing around at one point, once again, this show leaves me with some truly nightmarish images.

Quote

The whole Tulsa massacre thing just makes me so very, very sad.  The lost potential is really hard to contemplate.  And the pure malice and hate behind it just hurts my heart.

Yep. Absolutely insane. What the fuck is wrong with people?

I'm sorry to say that I did not know about this chapter in history until people started talking about it this year thanks to "Watchmen" (which I haven't seen). That's disturbing and wrong as hell in its own right. Kudos to these TV shows for bringing attention to these rarely discussed historical events, but seriously, we desperately need to have it taught in schools as well. 

On a significantly lighter note, I loved Leti's red dress. And I chuckled a bit when she described Atticus as a "handful" or something to that effect :p. 

[thuganomics85]

So, between Watchmen's pilot and this episode, HBO really is all about making sure everyone knows about the Tulsa Massacre from 1921.  It is still hard to believe that something that horrific happened in real life, but sadly that and plenty of other moments in history have, and it was all because of racism and bigotry.  I'm glad people are finding out about it now, and realize just how truly dark American history is: even though it was "only" a hundred years ago.

Anyway, it's always good to have some old-fashioned "time-traveling" complete with debates and moments over would be worth just changing maybe a "few" things for the better, despite the risk of possibly fucking up the future timeline!  I mean, if Barry Allen can get away from it, and the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D can apparently fuck it up and have no blowback, why not, right?! (and lets not even delve into the insanity the Legends have caused!)  For a second, I thought Montrose himself was either going to get himself killed or maybe somehow cause his younger self's death accidentally, but I'm glad that was avoided.  But seeing his past really explains why he is so damaged now.  It doesn't excuse all of his actions in the slightest, but damn, if Michael Kenneth Williams isn't bringing it 110% during each scene.

Certainly good to know that Leti's magical protection spell is working for her.  Would have been a bad time to discover a flaw or for Christina to go "Oh, that was totally just a prank, y'all!  My bad?"

For now, I'll give Ruby some leeway, because I do think her priority is protecting Leti, and I can see why she would be willing to let Christina sacrifice Atticus, if Leti will be spared.  That said, I really hope she knows not to trust Christina.  Because while I can believe that Christina won't go out of her way to harm her, if Leti does get in her way (which I suspect will happen for Tic's sake), then, yeah, I have a feeling that Christina's "Leti's safe" will go completely out the window.

Hey, that was William Catlett a.k.a. Lala from Black Lightning as Montrose's dad!

I wonder if Hippolyta's new blue hair is here to stay.

I believe this was the first episode not to end with "Sinnerman" playing, right?

Can't wait to see how this all plays out next week!  I'm sure it will mainly be the gang trying to thwart Christina, but I have to imagine a few twist and turns will be in store for us!

[paigow]

Note to Christina & Ruby: Strap Tic down until the equinox and pump out his blood.  Bring him to the ceremony with ample replacement blood.

[AnimeMania]

I wonder if Ruby is going to kill herself a white woman because she wants to transform into a redhead. It is stupid to pick someone who is local because somebody might know her and that might create extra baggage.

I am glad that the "Book of Names" and that little piece of paper that tells you how to open the book was fireproof, because Leti was taking her sweet time.

[DollEyes]

  HBO's determined to not let us forget about the Tulsa 1921 Massacre, which is awesome. Maybe if the schools did their jobs, premium cable networks wouldn't have to. Montrose reliving his childhood trauma almost made me forget his abusing Tic and his killing Jahema-almost.

Hippolyta for the win!! After the way she came back, figuratively and literally took control over the mission to save Dee, damn near dying in the process and getting a new look on top of that, her fierceness knows no bounds. After what Hippolyta did in this episode, as far as I'm concerned, motherboards are now "Mamaboards."

Just when it seems like Leti couldn't get more badass, she does. She literally walked through fire to save her family; otoh, if Ruby worked my last nerve any harder in this episode, it'd be getting back pay. Ruby's acting like she was an innocent bystander where Dee's concerned was bad enough, but her lecturing Leti about her love life was bullshit, to say the least. At least Leti knows what/whom she wants; Ruby, otoh, doesn't know whom she wants nor how she feels about them from one moment to the next. Ruby claims she wants to protect Leti,  but she's willing to sacrifice Tic to do it, despite knowing that Leti's pregnant by Tic, just because she wants to belong. As a dark-skinned Black woman, I know how Ruby feels, but I'm not willing to be someone I'm not if it creates way more problems than it solves, especially for someone whom I don't totally trust. For all his faults, Tic will do anything for the people he loves, as the baseball bat scene proved; Christina may care about Ruby, but IMO, when all is said and done, she doesn't love anybody but herself.

  I think the reason why Leti walked instead of ran is because she's pregnant and carrying the Book Of Names and she had to be very careful to protect both.

Welcome back, Regina Taylor!

Edited October 12, 2020 by DollEyes

[Scarlett45]

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

For now, I'll give Ruby some leeway, because I do think her priority is protecting Leti, and I can see why she would be willing to let Christina sacrifice Atticus, if Leti will be spared.  That said, I really hope she knows not to trust Christina.  Because while I can believe that Christina won't go out of her way to harm her, if Leti does get in her way (which I suspect will happen for Tic's sake), then, yeah, I have a feeling that Christina's "Leti's safe" will go completely out the window.

I do think Leti is safe though until she gives birth. I think Christina spelled the FETUS, why do you ask? Because in case this attempt at the spell doesn’t work and Atticus dies, Christina is going to need another member of the bloodline to try again in 20yrs. 
 

Christina is many things but stupid isn’t one of them- and she’s very patient. If she had to wait for another generation to come of age for her spell she will. 

4 hours ago, DollEyes said:

Ruby claims she wants to protect Leti,  but she's willing to sacrifice Tic to do it, despite knowing that Leti's pregnant by Tic, just because she wants to belong. As a dark-skinned Black woman, I know how Ruby feels, but I'm not willing to be someone I'm not if it creates way more problems than it solves, especially for someone whom I don't totally trust. For all his faults, Tic will do anything for the people he loves, as the baseball bat scene proved; Christina may care about Ruby, but IMO, when all is said and done, she doesn't love anybody but herself.

 

4 hours ago, DollEyes said:

Hippolyta for the win!! After the way she came back, figuratively and literally took control over the mission to save Dee, damn near dying in the process and getting a new look on top of that, her fierceness knows no bounds. After what Hippolyta did in this episode, as far as I'm concerned, motherboards are now "Mamaboards."

 I’m not surprised that Ruby has no loyalty to Tic. She may feel sad for Leti and the baby if he doesn’t make it but I’m sure in her mind Leti is her sister (this baby her nephew)- she loves THEM, and Leti can always meet someone else if she wants later on. If Tic is collateral damage it’s sad but unfortunate. 
 

Yes I love Hippolyta too!!

[AzureOwl]

And the book references continue! In the novel, Dell was a redhead. Also rather tall and conventionally beautiful. 

Methinks it's about to be open season on gingers on Lovecraft Country.

[paigow]

5 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I wonder if Ruby is going to kill herself a white woman because she wants to transform into a redhead. It is stupid to pick someone who is local because somebody might know her and that might create extra baggage.

 

2 minutes ago, AzureOwl said:

Methinks it's about to be open season on gingers on Lovecraft Country.

If Ruby gets all impulsive and experimental, that basement is going to be filled with human bloodbags of all shapes and sizes before long...

[Robert Lynch]

This is a problem today when people are repeating the same mistakes that they did over and over again. Tulsa should be a reminder of that and yet we are continuing this nonsense. It is a lesson that should be learned, but it is never taken seriously at all. 

 

[Sheenieb]

Quote

"When my great, great grandson is born, he will be my faith turned flesh."

What an amazing line. It ranks up there with " My birth is your birth, my death is your death" from "I May Destroy You." 

All the tears when Leti and great-great grandma were praying while burning. This show better dominate the Emmys next year.

9 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Also, it's mind boggling to me how many people and black people in particular are still okay with whupping their kids. Talk about passing down trauma and abuse.   

Yeah. As a Black woman who's had this anti-whupping discussion within my own family, it's frustrating as fuck. I get that it's the only form of discipline some of us grew up with, but there's more than enough information out there to counter it. 

I wanted to hug Montrose as well. What I also found interesting was when Tic said that he forgave his mother and Uncle George for not protecting him. I wondered why Dora didn't stand up to Montrose when he abused Tic. She stood up to Montrose's father when he was beating Montrose, and she called George out for not doing anything about it. What changed? 

[DearEvette]

See, I can't even begin to be philosophical or understanding about Ruby happily serving up Tic to die for Christina's ambitions.  She may think she is doing it to protect Leti but in the end she has no guarantees.   And the result is  she is bargaining away the life of black man to achieve a white woman's immortality.  Meanwhile just last week she was enraged and heartbroken about another black male body being killed because of another white woman's vanity.   There is just a whole lot of "hell no" packed in there for me.  It a slippery slope she is beginning to slide down as she learns she can play god with people's lives.  As some red-headed woman will probably find out soon enough.

[Scarlett45]

21 minutes ago, Sheenieb said:

I wanted to hug Montrose as well. What I also found interesting was when Tic said that he forgave his mother and Uncle George for not protecting him. I wondered why Dora didn't stand up to Montrose when he abused Tic. She stood up to Montrose's father when he was beating Montrose, and she called George out for not doing anything about it. What changed? 

I’m not sure. It may have been that Dora thought Montrose knew best regarding disciplining a son. It could’ve also been Dora felt Montrose’s Dad was motivated by alcoholism and homophobia where as Dora saw Montrose as strict, and perhaps too harsh but motivated by wanting to raise Tic properly and may have taken things too far in instances where Tic actually should’ve been punished so she was conflicted. 
 

I don’t think Montrose beat Tic with impunity but it might have been on the line where family disagreed but didn’t think it was bad enough they needed to step in. 

[kay1864]

7 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I am glad that the "Book of Names" and that little piece of paper that tells you how to open the book was fireproof, because Leti was taking her sweet time.

 My interpretation was that anything she was holding/wearing became invulnerable.

[sempervivum]

It's worth noting the other way Black communities were destroyed. Here in Milwaukee, 'Bronzeville'- the economic and cultural heart of Black life- was bulldozed to make way for the freeway that allowed city workers to get quickly to their suburban homes The Destruction of Bronzeville

Not as exciting as murder and fire, but just as devastating. (Done under a Socialist mayor, btw).

[DollEyes]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I do think Leti is safe though until she gives birth. I think Christina spelled the FETUS, why do you ask? Because in case this attempt at the spell doesn’t work and Atticus dies, Christina is going to need another member of the bloodline to try again in 20yrs. 
 

Christina is many things but stupid isn’t one of them- and she’s very patient. If she had to wait for another generation to come of age for her spell she will. 

 

 I’m not surprised that Ruby has no loyalty to Tic. She may feel sad for Leti and the baby if he doesn’t make it but I’m sure in her mind Leti is her sister (this baby her nephew)- she loves THEM, and Leti can always meet someone else if she wants later on. If Tic is collateral damage it’s sad but unfortunate. 
 

 

  I respectfully disagree. If anything, that makes Ruby look even worse. That Ruby would mourn the death of one Black boy while being willing to deprive another-her nephew, at that-of his father just because of Christina? Hypocritical much? And if Tic's blood doesn't work,  Christina will just try to kill George Jr. instead? Oh, Hell naw! Ain't so sex in the world so good that I'd make my family literal human sacrifices to keep getting it. As for Leti's getting involved with someone else, that's not Ruby's call to make without Leti's permission, under any circumstances. As far as I'm concerned, Christina's not worth the effort and Ruby's just gonna have to learn that the hard way.

[Scarlett45]

22 minutes ago, DollEyes said:

  I respectfully disagree. If anything, that makes Ruby look even worse. That Ruby would mourn the death of one Black boy while being willing to deprive another-her nephew, at that-of his father just because of Christina? Hypocritical much? And if Tic's blood doesn't work,  Christina will just try to kill George Jr. instead? Oh, Hell naw! Ain't so sex in the world so good that I'd make my family literal human sacrifices to keep getting it. As for Leti's getting involved with someone else, that's not Ruby's call to make without Leti's permission, under any circumstances. As far as I'm concerned, Christina's not worth the effort and Ruby's just gonna have to learn that the hard way.

I didn’t say Ruby was right- and she’s being absolutely hypocritical and self serving; but that’s how I think Ruby is justifying it to herself.
 

And I’m not surprised at her stance- humans can be very selfish and short sighted. Ruby is thinking about herself and what she wants as #1, she’s willing to go out and murder a woman to steal her skin! She’s crossed a moral horizon IMO. 

[paigow]

If everyone is on the same page of future knowledge... then nothing will happen to George Jr.

Possible Outcomes:

1. Tic dies, Christina becomes immortal
2. Tic dies, somebody finds a magic way/ loophole to kill Christina
3. Tic survives, somebody finds a magic way/ loophole to kill Christina 
4. Tic survives and gets boss level magic powers, Christina remains mortal and agrees to an uneasy truce  

[carrps]

11 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I'm sorry to say that I did not know about this chapter in history until people started talking about it this year thanks to "Watchmen" (which I haven't seen). That's disturbing and wrong as hell in its own right. Kudos to these TV shows for bringing attention to these rarely discussed historical events, but seriously, we desperately need to have it taught in schools as well. 

I knew about Tulsa. I knew about Rosewood. I read The Devil in the Grove. All of this should be in our school books. Instead we have Texas controlling the content and writing how slaves were happy and cared for. Makes me want to puke.

On a lighter note I liked great-great-grandma commenting on Leti's shoes. I was thinking sneakers were not the chic-est choice to pair with a sparkly flapper dress.

[RachelKM]

Man I loved this episode.  So much interesting character and relationship development for Montrose and Montrose and Tic.  And once again, Leti and Hippolyta are fucking bad assess.  I love them so much.

8 hours ago, DollEyes said:

Hippolyta for the win!! After the way she came back, figuratively and literally took control over the mission to save Dee, damn near dying in the process and getting a new look on top of that, her fierceness knows no bounds. After what Hippolyta did in this episode, as far as I'm concerned, motherboards are now "Mamaboards."

I literally shouted "Yes!" when she came through the door.  And I loved everything about her in this episode.  She came in, found out her daughter was in trouble and just took the situation in hand along with her self-developed tech.    Also, I'm not mad at the blue hair. 

14 hours ago, DearEvette said:

The whole Tulsa massacre thing just makes me so very, very sad.  The lost potential is really hard to contemplate.  And the pure malice and hate behind it just hurts my heart.

So much this.  I spent the whole time they were in 1921, particularly when there were aerial shots of the main street, aching for the loss of life, talent, and culture that was destroyed in a handful of days plagued by heart-fulls of hate.  It made me think of one of my favorite quotes: 

“I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.” -  Stephen Jay Gould

I often think of the utter cruelty and waste of human potential that racism and sexism have led to. Each person who suffered matters and is tragic, but so too is the collective loss of talent and brilliance. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by RachelKM

[paigow]

1 hour ago, carrps said:

On a lighter note I liked great-great-grandma commenting on Leti's shoes. I was thinking sneakers were not the chic-est choice to pair with a sparkly flapper dress.

Too bad nobody from the future gave Hippolyta the schematics to build a replicator so the away team could have period appropriate clothing BEFORE arriving in 1921....

[Luckylyn]

5 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I do think Leti is safe though until she gives birth. I think Christina spelled the FETUS, why do you ask? Because in case this attempt at the spell doesn’t work and Atticus dies, Christina is going to need another member of the bloodline to try again in 20yrs. 
 

Christina is many things but stupid isn’t one of them- and she’s very patient. If she had to wait for another generation to come of age for her spell she will.

That is my thinking as well, that Leti and Tic’s son is Christina’s backup plan.   Christina is a long range thinker.  Christina does nothing that is not ultimately useful for her goals.  

Montrose’s speech about being Tic’s father because a man has sons showcased how he has linked his self image in being a father.  Montrose learned through his abuse that being a man meant brutality so Montrose inflicted that same brutality on Tic.  I pity what Montrose suffered at the hands of his father, but I have no sympathy for his abuse of Tic.  There’s something self serving about how he uses his image as a father as some sort of coping mechanism and proof of his masculinity.  I also find myself judging George not for not intervening in Montrose’s abuse because they were still kids and both fearful of their father but the way George was a bystander to Tic’s abuse.  It’s worse because he could have used the leverage of being Tic’s possible father to get Tic away from Montrose.  When it comes to being a father, both of them failed Tic.  Also why didn’t George marry Dora and raise Tic himself?  Did George support the marriage of Dora and Montrose because he thought somehow that would help his brother?  Is that what Montrose meant when he said George helped him more than anyone else?  Why did Dora stand up for Montrose when he was abused but not for Tic?  I desperately need a flashback episode that explains the circumstances of Dora and Montrose’s wedding?

I am glad that people are learning more about their history.  It is sad that events like the Tulsa Massacre are not taught in schools.  So much promise and loss of life because of bigotry and they got away with it.  If we don’t learn our history we repeat it.  It’s scary how much ugliness still exists in modern times.  It is not some remnant from the past but a horror that could happen again if people do not actively resist racism.  

[kay1864]

3 hours ago, DollEyes said:

Oh, Hell naw!

For 400!

Edited October 12, 2020 by kay1864

[Scarlett45]

42 minutes ago, Luckylyn said:

Montrose’s speech about being Tic’s father because a man has sons showcased how he has linked his self image in being a father.  Montrose learned through his abuse that being a man meant brutality so Montrose inflicted that same brutality on Tic.  I pity what Montrose suffered at the hands of his father, but I have no sympathy for his abuse of Tic.  There’s something self serving about how he uses his image as a father as some sort of coping mechanism and proof of his masculinity.  I also find myself judging George not for not intervening in Montrose’s abuse because they were still kids and both fearful of their father but the way George was a bystander to Tic’s abuse.  It’s worse because he could have used the leverage of being Tic’s possible father to get Tic away from Montrose.  When it comes to being a father, both of them failed Tic.  Also why didn’t George marry Dora and raise Tic himself?  Did George support the marriage of Dora and Montrose because he thought somehow that would help his brother?  Is that what Montrose meant when he said George helped him more than anyone else?  Why did Dora stand up for Montrose when he was abused but not for Tic?  I desperately need a flashback episode that explains the circumstances of Dora and Montrose’s wedding?

From what we’ve been shown- I’m guessing Dora married Montrose because she loved him more and thought he needed her love more, although she may have been sexually attracted to George too (hence why they hooked up). Dora knew George was going to be “fine”- the was the older less emotionally needy brother and he had tons of young ladies interested in him. Montrose was damaged from his abuse and loved Dora so I could see why she chose him. 
 

Very likely Dora didn’t know who the father of Tic was (if she was having sex with Montrose on the regular and George was a one time thing why would she not assume he was Montrose’s?) George may have not been willing to fight for Dora because he thought marriage to a woman was the best thing for Montrose and he knew she loved him. Also George may have not been ready to get married yet (given the age gap between Tic and Dee, it may have been a decade before he married Hippolyta). 
 

It’s probably very layered. George may have never stood up for Tic because he had guilt over 1. Not protecting Montrose when they were kids, 2. Sleeping with his brothers’ girl- for the record I am not saying this was right!

[paigow]

Is it a trope that lead characters can always steal clothes from their body twins??

[kay1864]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

she’s willing to go out and murder a woman to steal her skin!

 And apparently just so she can be a redhead? Geez that’s cold.

[kay1864]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

Too bad nobody from the future gave Hippolyta the schematics to build a replicator so the away team could have period appropriate clothing

 Apparently it won’t be available until 2250 or so 😭

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Replicator

[kay1864]

33 minutes ago, paigow said:

Is it a trope that lead characters can always steal clothes from their body twins??

GMTA... I actually said “How convenient that the clothes on that bellman’s cart fit so well!”

[tennisgurl]

Bless HBO for single handedly reminding everyone that the Tulsa 1921 Massacre happened, after years of it being apparently forgotten by educators and the media alike, despite what a huge and horrific tragedy it was. Its hard to watch, just the sheer carnage and hatred surrounding it, but its important to remember these events, as uncomfortable and heartbreaking as they are, so we can learn from them. 

So on our next stop on the "exploring magic/science fiction" tour, we get our time travel episode. I figured out right away that Montrose would be the one to try and change history and cause problems, as the guy is a loose cannon on his best day, let alone reliving one of the worst days of his life, but of course it turns out that this is a stable time loop situation and they were always going to be back in the past so that Tic can save his younger father and uncle. Tic must have read some time travel books, he had to have suspected that this would happen as soon as Montrose started going on about a stranger who saved them and disappeared. The ending with Leti and Tics (great?) grandmother as she passed the book along as she burned was very powerful, and Leti is an all star as always. I wondered about her sneakers too, didn't exactly go with her 20s dress, so I was glad that the grandma picked up on them and realized that something was up. But come on Leti, you gotta run! You have the book and only so much time, save the dramatic walking for when you get home! 

It doesn't excuse all of the wrong that Montrose has done, but I do really feel for him seeing how many horrible things happened to him, and its terribly sad seeing how the cycle of abuse was passed from his father to him with Tic. Also feeling really bad for Tic, he had no idea what kind of soap opera his family really was. So George really might have been his father, and George, Montrose, and his mom all suspected it? And now Tic has a baby on the way! 

I get that Ruby wants to protect her sister and put her first, but I cant imagine Leti will appreciate her leaving Tic to be killed by Christina. While Ruby does want to protect her sister and future nephew, I think that she is also getting sucked into magic and Christina and all the opportunities that it gave give her, after years of feeling powerless as a full figured black woman. I mean, that groundkeeper woman wasn't a good person or anything, but Ruby just smiling about getting to be a redhead now is pretty damn cold. Although I hope that she keeps it in mind that, while Christina might have affection for her (and I think that she really does) Christina is all about Christina and what she wants, and really has little capacity for empathy. 

Hippolyta is back and basically a superhero, and I love that cool new hair. 

[paigow]

The real Jackie Robinson was 2 years old in 1921...so young Montrose could never have compared the "Stranger" to Robinson.  He would have to wait around 20 years for Robinson to be a star in the Negro League before he could tell Tic that story.  

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

The real Jackie Robinson was 2 years old in 1921...so young Montrose could never have compared the "Stranger" to Robinson.  He would have to wait around 20 years for Robinson to be a star in the Negro League before he could tell Tic that story.  

Yes that’s true- but that’s a reference Tic would recognize, so I get why he would use the comparison. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

The real Jackie Robinson was 2 years old in 1921...so young Montrose could never have compared the "Stranger" to Robinson.  He would have to wait around 20 years for Robinson to be a star in the Negro League before he could tell Tic that story.  

If you figure that Tic is in his early 20s in 1955, then it seems like a fair assumption that Montrose might have started telling young Tic that stor around when he was 10-13, or 1943-5 or so. That would seem to fit.

22 hours ago, peridot said:

I don't get why Ruby is ok with Tic being murdered.  Does she think that Leti will forgive her for letting the father of her child be murdered?
Based on what she said to Christina, is she now going to find a red-headed woman and take her skin? 

The events of 1921 and seeing how abuse is passed through the generations was tragic.  Montrose has been been through a lot, I half expected him to commit suicide in the hotel room. 

The corrupt cop was literally ripping flesh off a black man to staple onto himself?!  I'm glad he actually died this time.

I really want to see how the team explained the "gas explosion" in their neighborhood.  Where did the monster go?

Ruby is a hustler and if she can benefit from Christina's potential rise at no cost to her and hers, she's gonna do it. I'm frankly surprised that she asked for the promise about Leti, given her mixed feelings about her. I guess at the end of the day she knows it's not good to have family blood on your hands.

Leti isn't going to know about Ruby's having a role in Christina's killing Tic. In fact, does Ruby really have a role? If the thing she wanted most in the world to do was to protect and save Tic, could she do it? I think it's fair of her to think that she is powerless to prevent anything from happening because she seems to be.

I assume that the comment about the redhead was just a passing thing. It's probably easier to get a dye job.

Re: Lancaster, people thought he was dead last episode.. Given magic and the ability to reanimate people, I'm not going to count him dead just on Chrilliam's say-so.

20 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

I just think Ruby's top priority is her sister. She knows Christina is up to no good, and she wants to make sure her sister and her sister's child are safe. It makes perfect sense. If I was in her shoes, I wouldn't be worried about Atticus either. 

I wonder if Ruby does actually know that Christina is up to no good. She could be star-struck, love-struck, or a number of other -strucks.

19 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Anyway, it's always good to have some old-fashioned "time-traveling" complete with debates and moments over would be worth just changing maybe a "few" things for the better, despite the risk of possibly fucking up the future timeline!  I mean, if Barry Allen can get away from it, and the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D can apparently fuck it up and have no blowback, why not, right?! (and lets not even delve into the insanity the Legends have caused!)  For a second, I thought Montrose himself was either going to get himself killed or maybe somehow cause his younger self's death accidentally, but I'm glad that was avoided.  But seeing his past really explains why he is so damaged now.  It doesn't excuse all of his actions in the slightest, but damn, if Michael Kenneth Williams isn't bringing it 110% during each scene.

...

I believe this was the first episode not to end with "Sinnerman" playing, right?

Given that time travel is overused and requires a lot of ignorance/laziness/stupidity on the part of characters, it was still pretty captivating as an episode. By that I mean, with a multiverse machine, Hippolyta hypothetically could have sent Our Heroes to any time before the Tulsa Riots from when Titus first got the book to three nights earlier when there weren't marauding white folks to contend with. She could have just sent hem back to stop Lancaster from cursing Dee, or hell, could have killed baby Lancaster in his crib. Or they could have gone to Earth 324G and looked at an equivalent Book of Names to get whatever information they needed. And if Our Heroes failed at whatever they first atempted, they still have a Multiverse Machine to let them do whatever they want.

I thought Montrose was going  to be his own Jackie Robinson stranger, but let Tic have his moment. Where did the bat come from, though?

I couldn't help but think of City on the Edge of Tomorrow in Montrose having to sit there and watch his first crush get shot in the head to preserve history. And I like that it's Leti who is not into the sci-fi that tells you you're not supposed to mess with the time stream who's like, "Fuck it, I'm from the future and I need this."

Yes, the first without Sinnerman. There was very little in the way of songs in this episode. I've been hoping that there would be an official soundtrack for the series cause they have some great music. But I'm too lazy/cheap to order individual songs into a playlist.

12 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I do think Leti is safe though until she gives birth. I think Christina spelled the FETUS, why do you ask? Because in case this attempt at the spell doesn’t work and Atticus dies, Christina is going to need another member of the bloodline to try again in 20yrs. 
 

Christina is many things but stupid isn’t one of them- and she’s very patient. If she had to wait for another generation to come of age for her spell she will. 

I think the spell is connected to the fetus as well. First, Christina placed her hand on Leti's stomach of all places. And second, because the notion of Invulnerable Leti, fun as it is for a few episodes, would take the tension out long-term.

10 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

I wanted to hug Montrose as well. What I also found interesting was when Tic said that he forgave his mother and Uncle George for not protecting him. I wondered why Dora didn't stand up to Montrose when he abused Tic. She stood up to Montrose's father when he was beating Montrose, and she called George out for not doing anything about it. What changed? 

I have had the sense -- based on nothing in particular -- that Dora died or disappeared pretty early in Tic's childhood.

I wish we got more of a sense of who Dora was from this episode. I mean, a lot going on sono worries. At least we didn't get Back to the Future shennanigans where she started crushing on Tic.

10 hours ago, DearEvette said:

See, I can't even begin to be philosophical or understanding about Ruby happily serving up Tic to die for Christina's ambitions.  She may think she is doing it to protect Leti but in the end she has no guarantees.   And the result is  she is bargaining away the life of black man to achieve a white woman's immortality.  Meanwhile just last week she was enraged and heartbroken about another black male body being killed because of another white woman's vanity.   There is just a whole lot of "hell no" packed in there for me.  It a slippery slope she is beginning to slide down as she learns she can play god with people's lives.  As some red-headed woman will probably find out soon enough.

I think there are a lot of ways that Emmett Till's death could be moving in a way that Tic's wouldn't, even putting aside that Ruby stands to profit from Tic's death.

Emmett was a teen, who in no way was a willing participant in what he endured. He was tortured in his death in part to send a message.  Tic is a grown man, and from all appearances will have to volunteer to be part of the ritual...it of course remains to be seen how painful or painless Tic's death could be, but Ruby could fool herself into thinking that it's not going to be torture. 

8 hours ago, paigow said:

If everyone is on the same page of future knowledge... then nothing will happen to George Jr.

Possible Outcomes:

1. Tic dies, Christina becomes immortal
2. Tic dies, somebody finds a magic way/ loophole to kill Christina
3. Tic survives, somebody finds a magic way/ loophole to kill Christina 
4. Tic survives and gets boss level magic powers, Christina remains mortal and agrees to an uneasy truce  

There are a lot more outcomes than those, especially with reanimation/resurrection on the table, and with who knows how many lodge members potentially out there.

[Scarlett45]

4 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I have had the sense -- based on nothing in particular -- that Dora died or disappeared pretty early in Tic's childhood.

Yeah. I am thinking Dora was dead/gone before Tic got to highschool. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

10 hours ago, DollEyes said:

Ain't so sex in the world so good that I'd make my family literal human sacrifices to keep getting it. As for Leti's getting involved with someone else, that's not Ruby's call to make without Leti's permission, under any circumstances. As far as I'm concerned, Christina's not worth the effort and Ruby's just gonna have to learn that the hard way.

But it's not a family member. And it's not just sex. It's also money and power.

Not that it makes it right, of course, but it's easy to stand on the high ground when it's an abstract thing.

Would one be willing to stand aside and let a not-even-brother-in-law get killed if it meant unlimited riches, immortality and the power that comes with it? A lot of people would gladly accept that Faustian bargain, a lot of people would hem and haw about it and at least some people who would claim they'd never ever do it are probably lucky the question will never be put to the test.

6 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Very likely Dora didn’t know who the father of Tic was (if she was having sex with Montrose on the regular and George was a one time thing why would she not assume he was Montrose’s?) George may have not been willing to fight for Dora because he thought marriage to a woman was the best thing for Montrose and he knew she loved him. Also George may have not been ready to get married yet (given the age gap between Tic and Dee, it may have been a decade before he married Hippolyta). 
 

It’s probably very layered. George may have never stood up for Tic because he had guilt over 1. Not protecting Montrose when they were kids, 2. Sleeping with his brothers’ girl- for the record I am not saying this was right!

We don't know if Dora was regularly having sex with just George and no longer had been sleeping with her husband, or if she was regularly sleeping with Montrose and had a one time fling with George, or if she was regularly sleeping with both. So we can't know if Dora had her suspicions that one or the other was most likely the father, or of course, how valid those suspicions might be.

[kay1864]

 Anybody know what the voiceover speech towards the end was from?

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I thought Montrose was going  to be his own Jackie Robinson stranger, but let Tic have his moment. Where did the bat come from, though?

 I believe Montrose picked it up from a trash bin earlier, when they were in an alley.

[AnimeMania]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I assume that the comment about the redhead was just a passing thing. It's probably easier to get a dye job.

I don't think so, since Ruby pulled the plug on Hilary, I don't think she will be able to change into her again.

[paigow]

8 hours ago, kay1864 said:

 I believe Montrose picked it up from a trash bin earlier, when they were in an alley.

Yes. He smashed a car window with it to steal a bottle of whiskey/ bourbon

[Roxie]

Did we find out if it was, indeed, Audra McDonald singing?  It was lovely.

[Joimiaroxeu]

AFAIC The Exorcist can go sit down now. Lovecraft Country has assumed the throne for defining spell/demon-casting out scenes.

How did Hippolyta get back if Tic turned the time portal machine off and removed the key? Did I miss the explanation or was it just handwaved away?

I'm glad they had someone say something about Leti's shoes. But I guess they ultimately were a clever reason for someone to call Leti out as being suspicious. Imagine though if Leti had accidentally left one of her sneakers back in 1921. It could've turned into a The Gods Must Be Crazy situation.

Ditto comments upthread, this show and this episode in particular need to win all the awards. All. Of. Them. I remain unsure I want to see a second season though.

Quote

Also, it's mind boggling to me how many people and black people in particular are still okay with whupping their kids. Talk about passing down trauma and abuse. 

I feel like every African American person who still says "Well I got whupped and I turned out okay" should be sat down and forced to watch that "pick a switch" scene. I think odds are they aren't okay so much as inured to abuse, both as a giver and a receiver.

My favorite comment about this episode from reddit:

Quote

 

STARRING

Atticus as: Jackie Robinson

Leticia as: WALK, FORREST, WALK!

Christina as: Magical Karen

William as: young, promiscuous Mike Pence

Hippolyta as: Overclocked ASUS motherboard

Dee as: Linda Blair

Great grandmother as: Shireen Baratheon

Captain Lancaster as: defective Dr. Evil fembot (nipple gun jam...)

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Joimiaroxeu

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

How did Hippolyta get back if Tic turned the time portal machine off and removed the key? Did I miss the explanation or was it just handwaved away?

It wasn't explained on-screen, but when last we saw her IIRC she was talking to Future Babe and she was contemplating staying there or if Dee needed her. So it looks like she made the decision to come back. Again, why she came back at that time as opposed to two days earlier or seconds after she left  or whatever, given that she undoubtedly could choose her moment, is at best unclear.

My understanding is the blue things in her forearms allow some level of multiversal travel, so she didn't need Epstein's machine, and how she travels is likely close to actual "handwaving."

[kay1864]

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Imagine though if Leti had accidentally left one of her sneakers back in 1921. It could've turned into a The Gods Must Be Crazy situation.

 Or a segment of The Life of Brian 😆