S01.E06: Walk into the Light

[formerlyfreedom]

As 72-year-old former police officer Joe DeAngelo's arrest unfolds in real time, chilling facts materialize that illuminate Michelle's prescience in her book's epilogue, "Letter to an Old Man." Researcher Paul Haynes and true crime writer Billy Jensen try to learn everything they can about DeAngelo. When Patton Oswalt, Jensen, and Haynes connect with survivors and McNamara's fellow citizen detective Melanie Barbeau, Michelle's absence is deeply felt.

Series finale, airing Sunday, August 2, 2020.

[MrWhyt]

Great series. Boy did nephew seem very performative and rehearsed.

[DiabLOL]

2 minutes ago, MrWhyt said:

Great series. Boy did nephew seem very performative and rehearsed.

Right?! What do you think that was all about?

I found it so distractingly weird.

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by DiabLOL

[formerlyfreedom]

1 minute ago, MrWhyt said:

Great series. Boy did nephew seem very performative and rehearsed.

 

Just now, DiabLOL said:

Right?! What do you think that was all about?

Well, he was telling the story of how his mother was raped as a 7 year old, right? I can't imagine it was an easy thing to relate.

[MrWhyt]

Just now, saoirse said:

 

Well, he was telling the story of how his mother was raped as a 7 year old, right? I can't imagine it was an easy thing to relate.

I can understand that it is a hard subject to talk about and I can certainly imagine that might have taken multiple tries to get through but his delivery still seemed weird to me.

[scrb]

So it was all about Bonnie.  DeAngelo sounds like an angry guy in his youth, abusing dogs, trying to coerce his fiancée to help him cheat and tried to force her to elope with him at gunpoint.

He also endured and witnessed horrific things, not that any of it exculpates what he did.

This was an entertaining extended series.  But Patton's celebrity no doubt helped the posthumous publication of the book and the production of this doc/mini series.

Otherwise it would have been something only for buffs, to obsess over online and in CrimeCons. 

Michelle had some good guesses, that he might be a Vietnam War vet, in a middle-class respectable job, etc.  She could also turn a phrase.

(Though I wonder, was she reading her unfinished book manuscript, her magazine article, or something else?  Did she know there was going to be a doc made, which is why she recorded her readings or even recorded some of her "investigation" activities like visiting Sacramento on video?)

But I'm still doubtful about how much she and other amateur sleuths contributed to bringing DeAngelo to justice, other than the idea of going to DNA scanning.

 

Bigger question is, has the intense media attention on this case, because of Patton's involvement, the book and the doc, been positive for the survivors of these crimes?

We see this party after DeAngelo is caught, with the survivors meeting each other, hugging, toasting, etc.  But then one of them mentions that the past year of all this media attention has "dredged up" some things which haven't been positive for her, so she's getting some kind of professional counseling.

Maybe it was a kind of cathartic closure for some of the survivors.

Maybe some of the survivors will bond with others.

OTOH, it seems most or all of the survivors who appeared in this film had moved on with their lives over the past 30-40 years, found partners, raised families.  That's not to say some of them still didn't find peace or resilience after all these years.

The one couple noted that they were the only survivors who remained together after all these years, at least at that party.

Impossible to know how the trajectory of their lives would have fared if they weren't vicitimized.  Maybe the re-examination of these crimes and the eventual capture of the EAR may cause some to ruminate about how their lives might have been different, though there is little to be gained from such an exercise.

 

[MrWhyt]

32 minutes ago, scrb said:

Did she know there was going to be a doc made, which is why she recorded her readings

The readings were by Amy Ryan, not Michelle. i had also thought she had done them before learning it was Amy Ryan.

[Tdoc72]

41 minutes ago, scrb said:

So it was all about Bonnie.  DeAngelo sounds like an angry guy in his youth, abusing dogs, trying to coerce his fiancée to help him cheat and tried to force her to elope with him at gunpoint.

 

Snipped by me

 

I’m still wondering what Bonnie’s dad said to him to make him leave Bonnie alone.  I just can’t see someone that evil just giving up, although he did.  

 

[marybennet]

I found very moving Gay’s response (am I right that it was Gay?) to the painting ing in the Louvre. She and her husband seemed a little less buoyed by being with the others, like they still had some work and processing to do on their own.  I take it that his noting that they were, perhaps, the one couple who had stayed together was part of that work. Gay’s response to the painting  made me think about the way art (visual arts, literature, music) help sometimes by letting you look at what’s in you as if it were outside you. And the painting seemed like a way for her to think in isolation; the lovely bonding of the party that seemed so good for some people might not be what everybody needs.  The painting is a 19th century work by Paul Delaroche, and I’m linking to it here, in case anyone wants to look at it, assuming I can figure out how to link.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Young_Martyr

Edited August 3, 2020 by marybennet
Edited because painting has a t in it

[Annber03]

All right, well, I'll never be able to hear that "9 Crimes" song the same way ever again.

"Now we....have the power and control." Damn right. I also loved Patton's "Fuck you" to both DeAngelo and "all those loser zilch assholes". 

Man. Between seeing the detectives and Patton watching the announcement of DeAngelo's arrest, to seeing all the women coming to see him in the courtroom, to their gathering later on, both at that Crimecon and at their own get-together later on and bonding as they did, to Patton's meeting with them, this episode got me all emotional quite a few times. So powerful, so touching, so moving, so sweet, so monumental. Obviously it's understandable that even the arrest will dredge all these painful memories back up and lead to a lot of conflicted emotions, and I hope these women and their families will continue to be able to get whatever kind of help and support they need to work through this aspect of the trauma. But I am so, so glad that they do all have each other to lean on and talk to, and can discuss all of this with people who'll get it and understand. 

In so many ways, it's not surprising that DeAngelo turned out to live the kind of life he did. Look at how many serial killers were married, had children, had good jobs and homes, went to church every week, etc. It's a hell of a lot more disturbingly common than a lot of people like to think, and I think that's another reason why true crime appeals to people, alongside the attempts to understand why people do awful things and wanting to confront their worst fears. True crime also tends to shatter a lot of the stereotypes we have of people like DeAngelo, and reminds us that these kinds of monsters can take all kinds of shapes, and look like any average person we know. I think the sooner we learn to understand that, the easier it might be sometimes to spot some of the warning signs, like the sort Bonnie noticed, and, hopefully, the easier it might be to potentially stop them before they escalate into this kind of violence. 

It's also not surprising that he became a cop for a time, or that he lived in the same neighborhood as some of his victims. All part of his need for power and intimidation (and working as a cop also allowed him to figure out how to commit his crimes-he knew what to do and what not to do), and proof of his arrogance and how he thought he was so much smarter than everyone around him. "I'm a cop, they'll never suspect me. I'm living in the same neighborhood as these women I've attacked and they don't have a clue. I've gotten away with this for decades, they'll never catch me." 

But dear god, the fact that members of his own family were raped, the fact he had a wife and daughters, and yet he still went out and attacked people....I mean, that really speaks volumes about him right there. Such an incredibly eerie and cruel irony that of all the people Lisa wound up living with after her attack, it was him. Again, I liked how they worked in the theme this episode of how you never really fully know those you're close to. There was a lot about Michelle that Patton didn't know, and there was a lot about DeAngelo his relatives didn't know. 

As for the surprise at what he looked like after being arrested, it reminded me of when I first heard about the John List case. When they showed him when he finally got caught I remember thinking, "God, he looks like he could be someone's grandfather." It really is jarring to compare and contrast like that, yeah. I definitely think that once he goes to prison, he probably won't survive very long in there. He looks like he's almost at death's door as it is. 

51 minutes ago, scrb said:

So it was all about Bonnie. 

She did look a lot like many of his victims. 

Excellent documentary. Thanks to Michelle and all the investigators who worked so tirelessly over the years to investigate this case and nab this guy (and to Patton for picking up where Michelle left off with her book), and thanks to all the survivors and their families for sharing their stories, painful though it no doubt was to do so at times. I wish them all well, and I'm so glad their efforts ultimately paid off, and I'm glad the survivors and their families are able to finally see the justice they deserve. 

[GaT]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

So it was all about Bonnie.

 

27 minutes ago, Tdoc72 said:

I’m still wondering what Bonnie’s dad said to him to make him leave Bonnie alone.  I just can’t see someone that evil just giving up, although he did.  

She said it was 2 hours before her father came back, so yes, I would really like to know what her father said that made him go away forever, & then use her as his excuse for what he did.

When that woman (Lisa?) was talking about how people had wondered why he stopped for a few years & it turned out that was when she was living with him, but started again when she left to get married, it really made me wonder about their relationship. Having his own daughters & a granddaughter didn't stop him, what was it about their relationship that did? 

[Cheezwiz]

45 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Between seeing the detectives and Patton watching the announcement of DeAngelo's arrest, to seeing all the women coming to see him in the courtroom, to their gathering later on, both at that Crimecon and at their own get-together later on and bonding as they did, to Patton's meeting with them, this episode got me all emotional quite a few times. So powerful, so touching, so moving, so sweet, so monumental.

A very satisfying and moving conclusion to an excellent docu-series. Seeing all the victims gathered together was very powerful - it put me in mind of the big photo shoot that they did with Bill Cosby's victims. The arrest and sentencing had to have dredged up all kinds of mixed emotions for everyone, so It was good to see that they now have each other to commiserate with. For so long, most of them had no one, even though they lived a stone's throw from each other.

My jaw dropped at the beginning of the episode: "Holy shit, that's Bonnie!" Like others mentioned above, I'm curious to know what her father said to D'Angelo to make him go away. Usually people like him stalk relentlessly when they're fixated on someone.

49 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

When they showed him when he finally got caught I remember thinking, "God, he looks like he could be someone's grandfather." It really is jarring to compare and contrast like that, yeah. I definitely think that once he goes to prison, he probably won't survive very long in there. He looks like he's almost at death's door as it is. 

From what law enforcement officials who have dealt with him have said, apparently he's a big faker. Yes, he's an old man (just as MIchelle correctly surmised in her letter), but his pitiful presentation is apparently a put-on. Much like Harvey Weinstein showing up for court appearances with his walker.

And though she never named him directly, Michelle certainly was bang-on in her profiling theories of who he might be. I was hoping they'd go into a bit more detail about his past and his psychological profile. His family obviously endured some horrible stuff, but I was curious to know if there was something haywire about him prior to the attack on his sister.

I'm also still curious to know why he stopped for four years while that young girl was living with him. Especially since having his own wife and daughters did not curtail his activity.

The nephew was indeed odd, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, because how fucking horrible would it be to be closely related to someone like THAT?! The story of him as a kid seeing a man in a ski-mask in the window telling him to go back to sleep was chilling. I'm still shuddering thinking about it. 

Well done Michelle, well done book/investigative team, and Bravo to all those courageous survivors for sharing their stories, and living their lives.

[Annber03]

32 minutes ago, Cheezwiz said:

.Like others mentioned above, I'm curious to know what her father said to D'Angelo to make him go away. Usually people like him stalk relentlessly when they're fixated on someone.

Add me to those wondering about what he said, too. Thank goodness Bonnie went and alerted her dad to what was going on.

Quote

From what law enforcement officials who have dealt with him have said, apparently he's a big faker. Yes, he's an old man (just as MIchelle correctly surmised in her letter), but his pitiful presentation is apparently a put-on. Much like Harvey Weinstein showing up for court appearances with his walker.

Hm, yeah, that's true, I can easily see him pulling that kind of stunt, too. 

Quote

And though she never named him directly, Michelle certainly was bang-on in her profiling theories of who he might be. I was hoping they'd go into a bit more detail about his past and his psychological profile. His family obviously endured some horrible stuff, but I was curious to know if there was something haywire about him prior to the attack on his sister.

Right? I also love how appropriate and accurate "Letter to an Old Man" was as well.

Agreed on wanting to go more into detail about his past as well. I also wonder if his fellow cops ever did have any suspicions or odd feelings about him. He was kicked off the force for stealing, after all...were there any other things about him that seemed "off" to them? 

[bosawks]

I think the series ended up about loss.

Loss of self, loss of life, loss of the life you thought you were going to lead.

It doesn’t seem like anyone who was in his orbit was the better for it.

[TexasGal]

6 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

 

My jaw dropped at the beginning of the episode: "Holy shit, that's Bonnie!" Like others mentioned above, I'm curious to know what her father said to D'Angelo to make him go away. Usually people like him stalk relentlessly when they're fixated on someone.

From what law enforcement officials who have dealt with him have said, apparently he's a big faker. Yes, he's an old man (just as MIchelle correctly surmised in her letter), but his pitiful presentation is apparently a put-on. Much like Harvey Weinstein showing up for court appearances with his walker.

 

I assumed that Dad beat the crap out of him, which probably added to his humiliation around Bonnie.  Not that any of that justifies what he did later.  But I'm just thinking that's what my Dad (and older brothers) would have done.

It looked to me like he was faking from the scene we saw in court.  Like, actively pinching his face to look SO TIRED or whatever.  When the detective was watching his house and ultimately got the cup they go the DNA from, the guy didn't mention he was in a wheelchair etc.  Piece of crap.

[sistermagpie]

12 hours ago, scrb said:

So it was all about Bonnie.  DeAngelo sounds like an angry guy in his youth, abusing dogs, trying to coerce his fiancée to help him cheat and tried to force her to elope with him at gunpoint.

if it wasn't Bonnie, it probably would have been someone else. I believe somebody said earlier in the ep that he was looking for an excuse to kill, for instance. He was already sadistically trying to scare and intimidate Bonnie and he hated her for finally finding a way to say no. Some other woman would have also said no and he'd have been off. She probably just became the focus for all his entitlement.

 

12 hours ago, scrb said:

But I'm still doubtful about how much she and other amateur sleuths contributed to bringing DeAngelo to justice, other than the idea of going to DNA scanning.

Mainly what they did is just make a case the police had more reason to solve. I feel like this is always the thing with Internet sleuth stories, like for instance, Don't Fuck With Cats. The sleuths do track down leads, they become obsessed with it, they are experts on the subject. As the writer said, if he hadn't been caught he'd have just gone on searching for him forever. But for people outside that world it always becomes a question of solving it or not, and the amateur sleuths always come across as claiming they were the ones that caught him even if they're not actually being given that credit.

12 hours ago, scrb said:

 

Bigger question is, has the intense media attention on this case, because of Patton's involvement, the book and the doc, been positive for the survivors of these crimes?

I think there's mixed reactions from the victims to how they feel they come across in the book. Which was probably inevitable. That many people just aren't going to respond to this the same way. The guy getting caught is an objective good, though!

 

11 hours ago, GaT said:

 

She said it was 2 hours before her father came back, so yes, I would really like to know what her father said that made him go away forever, & then use her as his excuse for what he did.

When that woman (Lisa?) was talking about how people had wondered why he stopped for a few years & it turned out that was when she was living with him, but started again when she left to get married, it really made me wonder about their relationship. Having his own daughters & a granddaughter didn't stop him, what was it about their relationship that did? 

I wondered that too. Taking care of her could have filled some specific need--or maybe there were practical reasons that made it more risky?

[Melina22]

4 hours ago, TexasGal said:

I assumed that Dad beat the crap out of him, which probably added to his humiliation around Bonnie.  Not that any of that justifies what he did later.  

Given that he was carrying a gun, and considering what he had done to that German Shepherd, I was expecting to hear he'd shot Bonnie's father then come after her. It really is astonishing that not only didn't this happen, but he never stalked her again. 

4 hours ago, TexasGal said:

It looked to me like he was faking from the scene we saw in court.  Like, actively pinching his face to look SO TIRED or whatever.  When the detective was watching his house and ultimately got the cup they go the DNA from, the guy didn't mention he was in a wheelchair

It was confusing. You see him looking feeble, and like he doesn't even have the mental capacity to understand English. Then you find out he only retired from his job a week before his arrest. He was definitely pulling a Weinstein. 

[AttackTurtle]

Thank God Bonnie went to get help.  That was such a bone chillingly scary story.

 

[sistermagpie]

31 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Given that he was carrying a gun, and considering what he had done to that German Shepherd, I was expecting to hear he'd shot Bonnie's father then come after her. It really is astonishing that not only didn't this happen, but he never stalked her again. 

That is exactly what I was expecting. I was truly shocked it worked out! For Bonnie, at least.

 

 

[marybennet]

I think I read somewhere that DeAngelo was riding a motorcycle the week before he was arrested, which would sure make me think, too, that there’s theater in his courtroom appearance.  
 

I didn’t find the nephew so disturbing, given that he seemed to be trying to deal with what he found out. I found the cousin more disquieting somehow, maybe in her assertions of his goodness to her.  It’s upsetting, of course, to think that someone can have been good to you and a monster to others. It seemed like she had more to process but maybe hadn’t gotten that far with it yet. 

[Melina22]

2 hours ago, marybennet said:

I found the cousin more disquieting somehow, maybe in her assertions of his goodness to her.  It’s upsetting, of course, to think that someone can have been good to you and a monster to others. It seemed like she had more to process but maybe hadn’t gotten that far with it yet. 

I really felt for her. He was like her saviour, who appeared to love her when no one else did, after she'd been so mistreated. But I didn't get the vibe he'd been at all creepy towards her.

 I could tell she believed he was probably guilty, yet she loved him. No wonder she said in her letter to him that her heart was broken. There was no right way to feel. 

[Thomas Crown]

I think Patton Oswalt summed it up pretty well with a big FU to Joseph DeAngelo.  Fuck his very existence.  Unbelievable how many lives were utterly destroyed by DeAngelo and as the show pointed out in previous episodes, with better co-operation between police departments there was a chance that he could have been caught earlier thus sparing some lives along the way. As for what Bonnie's father said or did, whatever it was it must have put the fear in DeAngelo as he never returned and turned his rage unto his victims.  

On another note, I watched the Genetic Detective on ABC this summer which also showed how using genealogy to identify suspects (such as as the GSK) opens up so many possibilities for solving decades old cold cases.  Let's hope this technology continues to be used by law enforcement agencies because there's unfortunately still lots of unsolved crimes out there where criminals still need to be brought to justice. 

 

[heatherchandler]

14 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Agreed on wanting to go more into detail about his past as well. I also wonder if his fellow cops ever did have any suspicions or odd feelings about him. He was kicked off the force for stealing, after all...were there any other things about him that seemed "off" to them? 

My husband and I were watching and we kept waiting for the interviews with other cops who knew him.  Why didn't they do that?

 

16 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

Great series. Boy did nephew seem very performative and rehearsed.

I didn't buy what he was selling.  I feel bad, and felt for him at first, but then I was like what is with this guy?

 

[movingtargetgal]

9 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

My husband and I were watching and we kept waiting for the interviews with other cops who knew him.  Why didn't they do that?

I think the director chose to focus on the survivors, their families and others (including Michelle) whose lives were impacted by the monster's crimes.  Why give him the satisfaction of gaining even more notoriety.  He has been caught and caged like the animal that he is.  I hope the California Department of Corrections will not allow him to any interviews with the media.    

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Gay's husband came off as a bit smug about how they were the only couple still together. When they were talking with that other woman, he immediately asked if she was married at the time of the rape and then followed that up with "How long did your marriage last after that?" Ugh.

I was glad that Gay said was in therapy again. It's only natural that her attacker being caught decades later would bring up the memories of what happened to her.

Although the reason that all of these women have bonded is horrific, I was glad that they got in touch with each other and have found strength in being able to talk to each other about their experiences. They understand each other in a way that no one else can. I was kind of shaking my head when one of the survivors said that her son didn't want her to go public because he was afraid for his family. I get that's a genuine concern but it's not your place to try to tell your mother that she can't talk about what happened to her. I'm glad he came around after she wrote him that letter because, as she said, she kept quiet for decades.

[bilgistic]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Gay's husband came off as a bit smug about how they were the only couple still together. When they were talking with that other woman, he immediately asked if she was married at the time of the rape and then followed that up with "How long did your marriage last after that?" Ugh.

I was glad that Gay said was in therapy again. It's only natural that her attacker being caught decades later would bring up the memories of what happened to her.

Although the reason that all of these women have bonded is horrific, I was glad that they got in touch with each other and have found strength in being able to talk to each other about their experiences. They understand each other in a way that no one else can. I was kind of shaking my head when one of the survivors said that her son didn't want her to go public because he was afraid for his family. I get that's a genuine concern but it's not your place to try to tell your mother that she can't talk about what happened to her. I'm glad he came around after she wrote him that letter because, as she said, she kept quiet for decades.

And good ol' Bob can't be arsed to go to therapy himself. Gay really is carrying the trauma for both of them. That question about how long the other woman's marriage had lasted was like him boasting about what a good man he had been to stick around after the assault. I really can't stand him. Yes, he was traumatized. I fully get that. He has never dealt with it and refuses to. He makes his wife carry his trauma as well as her own, as she comforts him when he gets emotional about what happened, as if she wasn't brutalized. They've bonded over their shared trauma and built a life after that, but that doesn't mean their marriage "survived" or is healthy.

The only part of this episode that made me tear up was when the survivors got together for their garden party. What a surreal situation that must've been. No one should have to bond over an experience like that, but I am glad they have each other. I know how it feels to have been assaulted and not have anyone to talk to about it. The isolation, guilt and shame are crushing.

[cardigirl]

I guess it's okay to be judgmental about people who have been through a traumatic event and found a way to deal with it, have four children, and continue living their lives as full as they can, but not okay to be judgmental about a woman's choice to self-medicate with dangerous opioids. 

I appreciated that they discussed why true crime, and murder true crime are such a draw for some people. That has always been of interest to me.  And also that Patton acknowledged the "social worker" who is apparently not named in the book.  I wonder why.  Michelle seemed more than happy to find her and use the information she had gathered. 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by cardigirl

[MicheleinPhilly]

This episode got me good. 😭 Hearing these women introduce themselves to one another using numbers was almost too much to take. And the finality of that ending not just for these women he brutalized seeing him brought to justice, but also in seeing the (likely staged) packing up of Michelle's office, I got quite emotional. 

I did not at all mind that they didn't delve into his psychology - I think there are more than enough true crime tellings that almost fetishize the killer at the expense of the victims. I'm just happy that he will spend the rest of his life rotting behind bars before he rots in hell. 

 

[heatherchandler]

6 hours ago, movingtargetgal said:

I think the director chose to focus on the survivors, their families and others (including Michelle) whose lives were impacted by the monster's crimes.  Why give him the satisfaction of gaining even more notoriety.  He has been caught and caged like the animal that he is.  I hope the California Department of Corrections will not allow him to any interviews with the media.    

You are right, this show was right to focus on the survivors and families. 

I am sure there will be something made about him, I just can't imagine the local police had not seen the sketch that looks exactly like him and not connected the dots.  But it's all hindsight now.

[Milburn Stone]

16 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

My husband and I were watching and we kept waiting for the interviews with other cops who knew him.  Why didn't they do that?

My guess is different from that of @movingtargetgal. What cop wants to go before the camera in order to say, "Yeah, uh, he did seem weird, but I didn't do anything about it. Guess all those rapes and murders are on me! My bad."

[carrps]

2 hours ago, MicheleinPhilly said:

And the finality of that ending not just for these women he brutalized seeing him brought to justice, but also in seeing the (likely staged) packing up of Michelle's office, I got quite emotional. 

I think that was just the house they staged for the series. On the podcast, the Liz Garbes (IIRC) talked about staging Michelle's bedroom. I know that's not the house Oswalt is living in now, because I saw a TikTok or Instagram where he was doing his standup on his front lawn during the COVID lockdown. It was not the same house. I assumed he moved, because one of the pictures of Michelle for the Los Angeles magazine article showed her standing by her front door and it looked just like the one in the house filmed for the series.

[bilgistic]

3 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

My guess is different from that of @movingtargetgal. What cop wants to go before the camera in order to say, "Yeah, uh, he did seem weird, but I didn't do anything about it. Guess all those rapes and murders are on me! My bad."

1) Cops protect each other.
2) Cops don't accept the blame when they are found liable for a group's wrongdoing, which is exceedingly rare.

Source: am American and my dirtbag father was a cop.

[sistermagpie]

2 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

1) Cops protect each other.
2) Cops don't accept the blame when they are found liable for a group's wrongdoing, which is exceedingly rare.

Source: am American and my dirtbag father was a cop.

I was going to say the same thing. Also, an even darker reading, maybe a guy talking about violence against women wouldn't much stand out all the time. It wasn't surprising that he went into that profession at some point. As was I think pointed out, it attracts people who like to control.

[bilgistic]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I was going to say the same thing. Also, an even darker reading, maybe a guy talking about violence against women wouldn't much stand out all the time. It wasn't surprising that he went into that profession at some point. As was I think pointed out, it attracts people who like to control.

Also, "Several studies have found that the romantic partners of police officers suffer domestic abuse at rates significantly higher than the general population."

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, bilgistic said:

Also, "Several studies have found that the romantic partners of police officers suffer domestic abuse at rates significantly higher than the general population."

Judging from the numerous stories I've seen on many a true crime show over the years about officers who've killed their significant others, this does not surprise me. 

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's please get back to the series. Thank you.

[Milburn Stone]

5 hours ago, carrps said:

I think that was just the house they staged for the series.

I felt like there were a number of scenes that had to be "reenactments." The scene where the two citizen-detective guys go look at the killer's house...it seemed like we were meant to think that happened right on the heels of the news of the arrest. And I believe they did do that then. But why would a documentary crew already be filming them at that point? I think they went back at a later time, for the sake of the documentary, and pretended to be seeing the house for the first time.

[heatherchandler]

10 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

My guess is different from that of @movingtargetgal. What cop wants to go before the camera in order to say, "Yeah, uh, he did seem weird, but I didn't do anything about it. Guess all those rapes and murders are on me! My bad."

Right, no one wants to be that guy.

 

8 hours ago, carrps said:

I think that was just the house they staged for the series. On the podcast, the Liz Garbes (IIRC) talked about staging Michelle's bedroom. I know that's not the house Oswalt is living in now, because I saw a TikTok or Instagram where he was doing his standup on his front lawn during the COVID lockdown. It was not the same house. I assumed he moved, because one of the pictures of Michelle for the Los Angeles magazine article showed her standing by her front door and it looked just like the one in the house filmed for the series.

Here is the house he sold in 2017, the house she lived in and where she died (no address listed so I think it’s ok to post):

https://variety.com/gallery/patton-oswalt-quickly-sells-celeb-pedigreed-l-a-home-above-asking-price/

 

[carrps]

16 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Right, no one wants to be that guy.

 

Here is the house he sold in 2017, the house she lived in and where she died (no address listed so I think it’s ok to post):

https://variety.com/gallery/patton-oswalt-quickly-sells-celeb-pedigreed-l-a-home-above-asking-price/

 

Thanks! So, they just found a similar house. I actually like the "staged" house a bit better. But I love those Spanish style houses...have always been my dream house since I was a little kid.

[heatherchandler]

15 minutes ago, carrps said:

Thanks! So, they just found a similar house. I actually like the "staged" house a bit better. But I love those Spanish style houses...have always been my dream house since I was a little kid.

Me too - I loved the look (the curb appeal) of the house on the show!

 

[FoundTime]

On 8/4/2020 at 3:15 PM, bilgistic said:

Also, "Several studies have found that the romantic partners of police officers suffer domestic abuse at rates significantly higher than the general population."

I believe this was a plot point in the also excellent based-on-real-life-events drama series Unbelievable on Netflix.

So I put off watching this (as I do with many finales of series/seasons I don't want to see end; don't get me started on Line of Duty) and found this just as sensitively done as the rest of the series. And if you liked the filmmaking style here, look for Liz Garbus's What's the Matter with Aunt Diane?

My jaw literally dropped and I think I might have even gasped when I realized Bonnie was That Bonnie. What a scoop. Another jaw-dropping moment was when they dissolved from the sketch of ONS to a photo of DeAngelo. 

Did anyone else notice how the nephew said that young Joseph watched the sister being raped, but then he talked about it as though Joseph had seen the rape? Watching a rape and seeing a rape seem to me to be two different things (one being more of an active choice, the other being more passive). I wish it were clearer which it was.

Loved the description of “The Young Martyr” painting. Drowning and yet so close to the surface. Under what, if any, circumstances, could you save yourself?

I thought the CrimeCon scenes were a little skeevy. Though everyone's support for the book and the capture and the survivors was understandable, it made me feel uncomfortable to see this story as a "fan event." (And I am okay with feeling uncomfortable.)

In the Media thread I have linked to an article by NPR’s pop culture blogger (who some of you might remember as TWoP’s Miss Alli). Less a review of the series, more of a reflection piece.

[Cheezwiz]

8 hours ago, FoundTime said:

I thought the CrimeCon scenes were a little skeevy. Though everyone's support for the book and the capture and the survivors was understandable, it made me feel uncomfortable to see this story as a "fan event." (And I am okay with feeling uncomfortable.)

Yeah, I felt uncomfortable with those scenes as well. I completely understand how compelling true crime stories can be, and I also totally get their following on podcasts and the internet.

But a comic-con style convention with fans getting photos with authors just kind of crosses an icky line for me for some reason. I don't think I'd feel comfortable going to one, even if I were a big fan of a particular author's writing.

 

[MicheleinPhilly]

7 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Yeah, I felt uncomfortable with those scenes as well. I completely understand how compelling true crime stories can be, and I also totally get their following on podcasts and the internet.

But a comic-con style convention with fans getting photos with authors just kind of crosses an icky line for me for some reason. I don't think I'd feel comfortable going to one, even if I were a big fan of a particular author's writing.

 

I wasn't even aware that CrimeCon was a "thing" until this summer. Between this, The Genetic Detective, and a book I read called Savage Appetites by Rachel Monroe, I felt like it was suddenly everywhere. Count me in the "this feels icky" club. 

[BellyLaughter]

On 8/10/2020 at 7:09 AM, FoundTime said:

I thought the CrimeCon scenes were a little skeevy. Though everyone's support for the book and the capture and the survivors was understandable, it made me feel uncomfortable to see this story as a "fan event." (And I am okay with feeling uncomfortable.)

Yep... completely tacky and weird.  I don't feel the true crime community needs it...it's not a good fit at all.

[Cherrio]

I just watched the doc this week and liked it, but didn't love it.  I realize it is almost impossible to tell a 40 year story with so many people involved though.

A few things that stuck out to me made me wonder.   Deangelo used the word "freeze" at least once and that screams cop to me.  Combined with the stealing/being fired and the composite that looked exactly like him, why did no one ever once say, hey.....what about Joe? His co-workers thought he was weird, his neighbors did too.  I think iirc he poisoned a neighbors dog and the kids were scared and often heard him yelling and acting strange.  What did his wife think he was doing and going night after night ?       

           Speaking of which, Oswalt said he knew Michelle, but not everything.  I believe that 100% about everyone, but I don't buy that he didn't think her drug consumption was a big deal.  I think they loved each other, but were both consumed with their own careers/interests and must of lead busy and disjointed lives. Alice who is so beautiful and smart imo became a victim.  She seemed deeply loved and cared for, but Michelle was an addict and her father claims to not have noticed.  Alice no longer has her mother, so I wish Michelle or one of the many friends/family would of intervened.  She had a responsibility to her daughter.  

Now as I write this post I realize that the GSK case and the people involved all had one thing in common. No one liked to talk or supposedly notice their partners/famlies/coworkers might have a problem.   A big problem.

[sistermagpie]

8 hours ago, Cherrio said:

           Speaking of which, Oswalt said he knew Michelle, but not everything.  I believe that 100% about everyone, but I don't buy that he didn't think her drug consumption was a big deal.  I think they loved each other, but were both consumed with their own careers/interests and must of lead busy and disjointed lives. Alice who is so beautiful and smart imo became a victim.  She seemed deeply loved and cared for, but Michelle was an addict and her father claims to not have noticed.  Alice no longer has her mother, so I wish Michelle or one of the many friends/family would of intervened.  She had a responsibility to her daughter.  

I don't know, I can easily believe he didn't think it was so much of a problem that he had to do...well, he probably wouldn't even now exactly wht to do. There are people who do way more drugs than Michelle seemed to have been doing and they live for years. As a stand up comedian he probably knew plenty of people who regularly popped something to wake up or to sleep and he knew she wasn't sleeping. Maybe he did himself. Even if he did think it was too much he probably wouldn't have said anything until after she finished the book that was driving her to distraction, at which point she probably just would have agreed and either toned it down or done it in secret.

Not speaking from personal experience, but it seems like living with an addict often makes people live in denial as long as they can without doing it on purpose. It's in our nature to want to think things aren't that bad. And part of being an addict is deflecting and playing it down.

Edited August 20, 2020 by sistermagpie

[Josette]

On 8/4/2020 at 7:23 AM, Milburn Stone said:

My guess is different from that of @movingtargetgal. What cop wants to go before the camera in order to say, "Yeah, uh, he did seem weird, but I didn't do anything about it. Guess all those rapes and murders are on me! My bad."

 I agree that it was the director's choice because I have seen Cpl. Farrel Ward and Chief Nick Willick interviewed in other documentary shows.

You can listen to Chief Willick talking about DeAngelo here.