S02.E06: The Twelfth of Never

[CraftyHazel]

Frankly, Dan was just so incredibly full of self-importance that he couldn’t believe Betty would dare to kill him.  After all, who kills the goose that lays the golden egg?  If he had been less pompous, he’d have seen Betty’s actions for what they were and either protected his home and family or tried to diffuse the situation.  I will never believe he or Linda deserved to be murdered, but they both loved to feed Betty’s rage and were too full of themselves to think of any other way to behave.

Linda keeping Betty’s wedding china (which, by all accounts, was nothing special to anyone but her) was just another bit of vindictive gameplay on Dan’s and/or Linda’s part.  I get being pissed at Betty, and I get wanting to stick it to her after she has driven through your front door, called you See-You-Next-Tuesday-face, and trashed your home...but you kinda already did stick it to her by marrying Dan, so give her her damned dishes.

And Christian Slater does smarmy sooooo well.  If the real Dan was that smug during the divorce hearing, I could almost forgive Betty.  Almost.

[geauxaway]

9 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I do wish we got more insight into Linda and her views.  Even if she loved Dan and was able to justify the affair to herself, it amazes me that she stayed through Betty's reign of terror.  For me, after the umpteenth break in or obscene message, I probably would have decided that none of this was worth it and left.     

I hear ya!  But it’s easy to overlook things when you are the queen of the manor.   In one of the earlier episodes it seemed like she was getting pressure from her parents to settle down (they probably meant with a peer, not her married boss), and I’m guessing at her age a lot of her friends were getting married and starting families.  She seemed really bothered and frustrated in that scene, like “why can’t I find a guy?!”

Like you say, it would be nice to see more of Linda as a person, because she was a daughter, a sister, and probably had friends.  I wonder what her friends thought about it all.  I know when I was her age I would have had plenty of judgments to hand out if that was my friend (just being honest)!

[DanaK]

I didn't watch last season because the more generic story didn't particularly interest me, but this season has me riveted. I was in my mid-20s when the murder and trials happened and kind of followed the story after that. I didn't really delve too much into the backstory at the time, but I recall Betty's histrionics in media interviews and at the trials. This season and various comments here have taught me much more about the backstory than I bothered to learn at the time. The whole thing is sad, sad for the various families (hers, Dan's and Linda's) and particularly the kids. I hope Betty got at least some mental health counseling, but her latest "It wasn't my fault" screed at her last parole hearing suggests she's still delusional and considers herself blameless. I hope she eventually finds some peace (though maybe she did once she killed Dan and Linda). I think Betty, Dan and Linda pushed each other to the limit and all three had a hand in things going off the cliff, but just to be clear, that doesn't mean Betty had any right to kill Dan and Linda. If she were ever paroled, I'm not entirely convinced she wouldn't make someone's life miserable

Buying the gun just screams intent to me, but sometimes you can't get everyone on a jury to agree. Even if she was afraid that Dan would keep screwing her over even after the settlement (which, let's be real, he might have), she could have gotten a lawyer to protect her. But for some reason, she just couldn't cooperate long enough to keep one to do the work for her.

 

[Nordly Beaumont]

If the shoe was on the other foot, I'm sure Betty would have returned the wedding china. Broken in a million pieces and covered with honey and ants.

[TexasGal]

I do wonder if Linda's perspective on the china is one of those fictionalizations of events they have the disclaimer about every episode.  She acted to Dan like she had never seen it, and then to the mutual friend she knew exactly where it was but didn't want to give it back to Betty.

The lady from the support group who befriended Betty and started helping her - she wasn't a lawyer?  I assumed she wasn't, and had just gotten educated on the system due to her own experience and what had happened to others in the group.  But I wasn't sure.

[geauxaway]

5 minutes ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

If the shoe was on the other foot, I'm sure Betty would have returned the wedding china. Broken in a million pieces and covered with honey and ants.

Well, and not to be whatever, but Linda did say that the china had never been included on any of her property requests or included in the division of property schedule.  I know it seems tedious, but that was Betty.  She probably left it off on purpose but then tried to use it as emotional credit with her friends.  Who wouldn’t feel bad about their friend being withheld her wedding china?  I sure as heck would!  But the way this divorce was going, if they gave Betty any courtesy outside the court orders she took a mile and destroyed any good will bestowed upon her.  They were right to stick to the letter of the order, even if it meant Betty didn’t have her china (yet).  She probably would have ended up getting it if she would have just put in a request to the court, had it reviewed and approved.  

[sadie]

I’ve always wondered if anyone involved on Dans side felt any remorse when all was said and done. His lawyer friends egging him on, all thinking how clever they were making sure Betty got screwed in the settlement; the judge that basically took things like Dans valuation of his worth at face value; Linda’s friends for not telling her to not screw a married man. I’m not saying the murders were their fault but you do wonder why no one was telling Dan to just give her a fair shake, he would’ve made 100 times what he paid her over the coming years, Linda had the China (Stumbos book went into this) why did no one say “give this poor broken woman her freaking wedding china, you’ve “won” the prize”. But everyone’s ego got in the way. Dan was the all powerful that held the money. Linda had WON her married man over and was not going to give in to the bitter sad fat ex wife (sarcasm here). Betty was not going to acknowledge reality. Pepper in some mental illness that should have been OBVIOUS to everyone and blam, murder. 
 

I thought Betty made some pretty good points at that hearing, but none of the men in the room wanted to listen because they were all “superior” to her. She should have kept her first lawyer but I still felt her reasoning was valid. She did support Dan while he went to school, she did contribute to his ability to become the success he was, but Dans ego was NOT going to acknowledge her contributions at all and saying the marriage was over on their wedding day really displayed the mans utter cruelty. 

[bluphoenix451]

26 minutes ago, DanaK said:

I didn't watch last season because the more generic story didn't particularly interest me, but this season has me riveted. I was in my mid-20s when the murder and trials happened and kind of followed the story after that. I didn't really delve too much into the backstory at the time, but I recall Betty's histrionics in media interviews and at the trials. This season and various comments here have taught me much more about the backstory than I bothered to learn at the time. The whole thing is sad, sad for the various families (hers, Dan's and Linda's) and particularly the kids. I hope Betty got at least some mental health counseling, but her latest "It wasn't my fault" screed at her last parole hearing suggests she's still delusional and considers herself blameless. I hope she eventually finds some peace (though maybe she did once she killed Dan and Linda). I think Betty, Dan and Linda pushed each other to the limit and all three had a hand in things going off the cliff, but just to be clear, that doesn't mean Betty had any right to kill Dan and Linda. If she were ever paroled, I'm not entirely convinced she wouldn't make someone's life miserable

 

 

I keep mulling this though over as well. I know at least one of her kids says she isn't a danger to anyone because the only people she wanted to kill are dead, but on the flip side her continued lack of remorse or willingness to acknowledge her culpability really makes me question that. I don't know that I think she would kill anyone else....but there are lot of other destructive things you can do before you get to killing. Like I wonder if her daughter who wants her to stay with her is really thinking about what it would be like to have a Betty in your home who not only won't acknowledge murder was wrong, but also wants you to agree with her that your dad deserved to die. All that to say, if she were to get out I would fear for anyone who crossed her wrong. Doubt she will ever get released though.  

[SuzieQ]

42 minutes ago, DanaK said:

I'm not entirely convinced she wouldn't make someone's life miserable

 

11 minutes ago, bluphoenix451 said:

 Like I wonder if her daughter who wants her to stay with her is really thinking about what it would be like to have a Betty in your home who not only won't acknowledge murder was wrong, but also wants you to agree with her that your dad deserved to die. All that to say, if she were to get out I would fear for anyone who crossed her wrong. Doubt she will ever get released though.  

Interesting points!  As I have stated, she'd already be out if she had any remorse.  But can you imagine that poor daughter if she did get out and live with her??  She would talk nonstop about Dan and Linda like it was yesterday and not 30+ years ago!  Does anyone know, if the daughter that offered to take her in is the same one whose graduation she ruined?  Betty's kid graduated and all Betty could talk about was Linda there and wearing a tacky outfit!  Guessing it's the other daughter because one is opposed to her being released ever.

Edited July 2, 2020 by SuzieQ

[poeticlicensed]

Unfortunately, Linda didn't live long enough to realize the old adage "If he will cheat with you, he will cheat on you". I'm guessing that relationships that are borne out of infidelity are probably at a higher risk than those that aren't. 

[SuzieQ]

2 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

Unfortunately, Linda didn't live long enough to realize the old adage "If he will cheat with you, he will cheat on you". I'm guessing that relationships that are borne out of infidelity are probably at a higher risk than those that aren't. 

Very true!!  She was young enough to think she was................................"special"  LOL!

[geauxaway]

I guess I’m the only one who thought Betty made a complete fool of herself trying to represent herself in court.  Of course the judge was annoyed, she was wasting his time and making a farce of his courtroom.  Judges don’t tend to like that.  She waltzed in there unprepared and the proceeded to make objectionable statement after statement.  It’s not up to the judge to be sympathetic to poor little Betty who chose to represent herself and was less than qualified to do so.  Especially at this point in the case.  

[poeticlicensed]

22 minutes ago, sadie said:

I thought Betty made some pretty good points at that hearing, but none of the men in the room wanted to listen because they were all “superior” to her. She should have kept her first lawyer but I still felt her reasoning was valid. She did support Dan while he went to school, she did contribute to his ability to become the success he was, but Dans ego was NOT going to acknowledge her contributions at all and saying the marriage was over on their wedding day really displayed the mans utter cruelty. 

This is exactly why she needed a good lawyer who could have dissected her contributions with facts and figures and not allowed Dan to minimize or dismiss her claims. She was just too stubborn to see that.

Putting on my amateur psychologist hat, I would say that Dan had a bit of narsissitic personality (grandiosity, need for admiration, lack of empathy) and Betty had a classic case of Histrionic Personality Disorder (excessive attention seeking and emotionality) and a touch of AntiSocial Personality Dosorder (impulsivity, lying). She definitely falls into Cluster B of disorders, which are characterized by dramatic, overly emotional thinking and behavior.

[lovesnark]

8 minutes ago, bluphoenix451 said:

I keep mulling this though over as well. I know at least one of her kids says she isn't a danger to anyone because the only people she wanted to kill are dead, but on the flip side her continued lack of remorse or willingness to acknowledge her culpability really makes me question that. I don't know that I think she would kill anyone else....but there are lot of other destructive things you can do before you get to killing. Like I wonder if her daughter who wants her to stay with her is really thinking about what it would be like to have a Betty in your home who not only won't acknowledge murder was wrong, but also wants you to agree with her that your dad deserved to die. All that to say, if she were to get out I would fear for anyone who crossed her wrong. Doubt she will ever get released though.  

Betty wanted the kids to give her a portion of the money they got from Dan's insurance policy and estate and she was pissed when they didn't. She was convinced she would be acquitted and wanted the kids to give her money when she was released. If Betty were to get out, her kids would be badgered constantly about the money they got and didn't share with her because it was HER money, dammit!! Along with having to hear her bitch 24/7 about what happened 30 years ago.

The daughter who wants Betty to move in with her is the one Dan cut out of his will. I believe her older sister did share her portion with her. The boys were minors and had no control of  the money they received from Dan's estate and life insurance until the were 18. There was some forensic accounting done and they found that Dan had given his brother an unsecured $450k 'loan'. He had to repay it and it went into the estate pot for the kids. 

[bluphoenix451]

2 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

Putting on my amateur psychologist hat, I would say that Dan had a bit of narsissitic personality (grandiosity, need for admiration, lack of empathy) and Betty had a classic case of Histrionic Personality Disorder (excessive attention seeking and emotionality) and a touch of AntiSocial Personality Dosorder (impulsivity, lying). She definitely falls into Cluster B of disorders, which are characterized by dramatic,

This sounds logical to my amateur ears. Though Betty reads to me as possibly suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder  (I got to see it up close as my mom suffered from it). There is a book about dealing with it that is often recommended for family members of those who suffer from it called I Hate You, Don't Leave Me which sounds exactly like Betty.

[poeticlicensed]

2 minutes ago, bluphoenix451 said:

This sounds logical to my amateur ears. Though Betty reads to me as possibly suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder  (I got to see it up close as my mom suffered from it). There is a book about dealing with it that is often recommended for family members of those who suffer from it called I Hate You, Don't Leave Me which sounds exactly like Betty.

Yes, also BPD. All in Cluster B, so they are all related

[txhorns79]

37 minutes ago, sadie said:

I thought Betty made some pretty good points at that hearing, but none of the men in the room wanted to listen because they were all “superior” to her. She should have kept her first lawyer but I still felt her reasoning was valid. She did support Dan while he went to school, she did contribute to his ability to become the success he was, but Dans ego was NOT going to acknowledge her contributions at all and saying the marriage was over on their wedding day really displayed the mans utter cruelty. 

It was interesting, and gives you a good idea of what could have happened had Betty had a lawyer.  The lawyer could have asked the right questions and focused in on the topics Betty stumbled over.  For example, some good directly focused questions on Betty's role at the beginning of the marriage (i.e. focusing on Betty's role as caregiver supporting Dan and the kids) where Dan would have difficultly obfuscating.  Also, a lawyer would have had a better handle on Dan's financials and would have been able to get Dan's current law firm earnings versus what happened where Betty found out only at trial that Dan had not submitted them.   

[Mrs. Hanson]

19 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I do wish we got more insight into Linda and her views.  Even if she loved Dan and was able to justify the affair to herself, it amazes me that she stayed through Betty's reign of terror.  For me, after the umpteenth break in or obscene message, I probably would have decided that none of this was worth it and left.     

I agree - I want to know more about Linda and what made her tick.  In other versions she is painted as very kind and loving, and I am sure she is....but like, you, @txhorns79, I would have packed my stuff and been gone.  Plus as a 22 - 25 year old, a 40 something man with four kids and a VERY unbalanced wife was NOT in my wheelhouse, lol.

9 hours ago, geauxaway said:

I guess I’m the only one who thought Betty made a complete fool of herself trying to represent herself in court.  Of course the judge was annoyed, she was wasting his time and making a farce of his courtroom.  Judges don’t tend to like that.  She waltzed in there unprepared and the proceeded to make objectionable statement after statement.  It’s not up to the judge to be sympathetic to poor little Betty who chose to represent herself and was less than qualified to do so.  Especially at this point in the case.  

I agree.  I don't think the judge was showing favoritism, he was just annoyed that she was not moving off the "I am going to make him find fault with Dan" angle.  And her ploy to have the court open backfired, too.  The reporter?  I really think she wanted a PR piece on her, forgetting the reporter has to get Dan's side of things.  I think Betty thought being married to a lawyer would make her a de facto lawyer.

I believe Betty scrawled that writing on the newspaper clip.  I don't think anyone ever mailed it to her, unless she mailed it to herself.  And considering her mind, anything it possible,

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Mrs. Hanson

[Persnickety1]

16 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

I read it here years ago in the comment section (some really interesting comments, some from people who knew them. You may have to hit "load more" to see them all)

 

 

Absolutely riveting comments on these pages.

Grazi for posting them...I'm getting another cup of coffee and diving in until I have to start work.  

[lovesnark]

1 hour ago, TexasGal said:

I do wonder if Linda's perspective on the china is one of those fictionalizations of events they have the disclaimer about every episode.  She acted to Dan like she had never seen it, and then to the mutual friend she knew exactly where it was but didn't want to give it back to Betty.

The lady from the support group who befriended Betty and started helping her - she wasn't a lawyer?  I assumed she wasn't, and had just gotten educated on the system due to her own experience and what had happened to others in the group.  But I wasn't sure.

I'm not at all excusing her role in this story, but Linda was young and inexperienced in life in general. I can totally see her holding on to the china out of spite. Betty had repeatedly been breaking into what Linda called home. She broke in at Christmas one year and destroyed the gifts for Linda  under the tree. After dealing with Betty's repeated break ins and vandalism, keeping her china was probably Linda's juvenile way of getting back at her a little.

The woman from HALT wasn't a lawyer, she was the head of the local chapter and was a huge ally to Betty. She was one of the people Betty called after the murders and she helped her arrange a lawyer to go with her when she turned herself in. She really tried to help her all along the way. Of course, it fell on Betty's deaf ears.

[poeticlicensed]

1 hour ago, Persnickety1 said:

I read it here years ago in the comment section (some really interesting comments, some from people who knew them. You may have to hit "load more" to see them all)

Lots of speculation that Dan was an alcoholic. Wonder if it was true. 

Some comments are pretty harsh. I'm mainly interested in the ones from people who knew them, although as with most divorces, everyone ends up picking a side. I found the ones from people in the legal community that despised Linda very interesting

[Goodtimes]

1 hour ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

I agree - I want to know more about Linda and what made her tick.  In other versions she is painted as very kind and loving, and I am sure she is....but like, you, @txhorns79, I would have packed my stuff and been gone.  Plus as a 22 - 25 yeard old, a 40 something man with four kids and a VERY unbalanced wife was NOT ion my wheelhouse, lol.

I agree.  I don't think the judge was showing favoritism, he was just annoyed that she was not moving off the "I am going to make him find fault with Dan" angle.  And her ploy to have the court open backfired, too.  The reporter?  I really think she wanted a PR piece on her, forgetting the reporter has to get Dan's side of things.  I think Betty thought being married to a lawyer would make her a de facto lawyer.

I believe Betty scrawled that writing on the newspaper clip.  I don't think anyone ever mailed it to her, unless she mailed it to herself.  And considering her mind, anything it possible,

 

In the "12th of Never" book, it's mentioned Betty's friends thought she sent herself that newspaper clipping of Dan & Linda's engagement. It was the use of the three exclamation marks (!!!) that caught their attention, that was the norm for Betty.

[DangerousMinds]

Too bad Linda had so little agency in her marriage. She should have been able to install an alarm system in her home simply because she felt unsafe. 

[sadie]

4 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Too bad Linda had so little agency in her marriage. She should have been able to install an alarm system in her home simply because she felt unsafe. 

I think we all agree given enough time Dan would have treated his young bride as badly as he did his wife, he just didn’t have time before they were killed. All Linda had to do was see how he was willing to discard the mother of his 4 children for a glimpse into her own future (and by that I mean a man willing to sneak around for 2 years behind his wife’s back - that was the character of this wonderful man she married).

[Armchair Critic]

Linda seemed to be forgotten about 

Spoiler

in the trials and even in the memorial services by Dan's friends and family. 

In 1989 I was a teenager and too busy with my social life (plus we were a one tv household back then) to pay too much attention but I remember hearing about this case. Back then I probably would have related more to Linda but now that I have been married it makes me more empathetic to Betty. It really was like Dan just moved Linda in as a replacement, almost all their friends stuck with Dan so I can see how frustrating that was. Especially when Dan started saying he regretted the whole marriage and downplayed her help in his career.

[lovesnark]

57 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

Lots of speculation that Dan was an alcoholic. Wonder if it was true. 

Some comments are pretty harsh. I'm mainly interested in the ones from people who knew them, although as with most divorces, everyone ends up picking a side. I found the ones from people in the legal community that despised Linda very interesting

Dan had been charged with more than one DUI. He'd go boozin' with his cronies at the bar after work and then drive home. In Stumbo's book, I remember reading something about Kim, the oldest daughter, having to go get him and sometimes him and Betty because they were too drunk to drive home. 

I can see the legal community thinking Linda was a bitch. It sounds like she flaunted her relationship with Dan around everyone in the office and they all resented her. She was an unskilled woman with no legal experience, yet she had her own big office and made a very tidy salary.

[Mrs. Hanson]

23 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

It sounds like she flaunted her relationship with Dan around everyone in the office and they all resented her. She was an unskilled woman with no legal experience, yet she had her own big office and made a very tidy salary.

In the Meredeith Baxter television version of this, a seasoned female employee confronts Dan and says, and I paraphrase, "Look, you moved a chippy who can't type into her own private office....we have eyes!"  She was more diplomatic than that, but yeah....people knew.  And it was portrayed way worse when Betty stopped in with champagne for his birthday.  It was portrayed as if he was gone all day with Linda and his staff, to Betty was like:  "Yeah....this is embarrassing.....here you are and there they went!"

I wonder what would have happened if Betty had sold the Coral Reef house, accepted a generous settlement and gone back east near her parents?  I imagine Dan and Linda javing two kids, and in twenty years leaving her as well.  Who knows?  From what I glean only the youngest son has kids, I can't tell if Dan IV has kids or not, it appears the two girls do not.  

[lovesnark]

32 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

In the Meredeith Baxter television version of this, a seasoned female employee confronts Dan and says, and I paraphrase, "Look, you moved a chippy who can't type into her own private office....we have eyes!"  She was more diplomatic than that, but yeah....people knew.  And it was portrayed way worse when Betty stopped in with champagne for his birthday.  It was portrayed as if he was gone all day with Linda and his staff, to Betty was like:  "Yeah....this is embarrassing.....here you are and there they went!"

I wonder what would have happened if Betty had sold the Coral Reef house, accepted a generous settlement and gone back east near her parents?  I imagine Dan and Linda javing two kids, and in twenty years leaving her as well.  Who knows?  From what I glean only the youngest son has kids, I can't tell if Dan IV has kids or not, it appears the two girls do not.  

Kim, the oldest daughter has two daughters. I'm not sure how many total grandkids she has now.

[Mrs. Hanson]

11 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

Kim, the oldest daughter has two daughters. I'm not sure how many total grandkids she has now.

Good to know - so that means, from my count, she has at least five.  I believe the youngest boy has three.  Why do I care?  Oh yeah - it is 95 and muggy outside, there is COVID and I can't go anywhere, lol!!!

 

1 hour ago, Armchair Critic said:

In 1989 I was a teenager and too busy with my social life

I was 24, not married and lots of time to follow this drama, lol!!!!

 

[poeticlicensed]

21 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

Kim, the oldest daughter has two daughters. I'm not sure how many total grandkids she has now.

I think Dan IV has kids, as does Rhett.

 

 

[cinsays]

On 6/30/2020 at 10:43 PM, Spartan Girl said:

I thought I was done feeling pity for Betty, but this episode got me. Although the stunt she pulled at her daughter's graduation was bad, she actually seemed to try to pull herself together after going to that support group. And she was painfully out of her element representing herself at the hearing. And the way Dan gaslighted and rewrote their marital history on the stand was awful.

agreed

and I don't see how he did not get that he was pushing her to something drastic like murder after all the other stuff she did

he could have at least just dropped the fines and let her have enough money to manage if she modified her standards, though not sure if she could do that

they should have had someone else play the judge because this guy looked so sympathetic to her that I expected him to bend the law a bit because he could clearly see that she did the best she could to represent herself

[cinsays]

On 7/1/2020 at 9:24 AM, AllyB said:

The thing is though, in this episode she asked for maintenance of $25k a month for 10 years. $3m over a decade, then done. He awarded her $16k a month for as long as they both lived and she remained unmarried. That would be close to twice the amount if Dan was still alive. So while it seemed like she got shafted, she didn't really. (At least in the tv show, I don't know how that matches real life.) I think the bigger issue was that Dan could keep on appealing it, and appealing it. If she'd just been awarded a big lump sum and very minimal maintenance it would have been to both of their benefits. The thing I really, really don't understand is why Dan wanted to shaft her out of the family home. Why convince her to move and then take the family home out from under her and then sell it anyway?

I guess I heard it wrong because I thought I heard the judge say she would only get the money if neither of them married again. 

Dan was just a malicious bastard

 

[KoKo]

The book by Bella Stumbo "12th of Never"  ~ I'm dying to read the book and have been looking on Amazon and Ebay.  Is it the Deadly Divorce of Dan & Betty B or Should Betty Broderick ever be free?   And am I looking at the right book, or are they REALLY over $100 ?   

[Armchair Critic]

17 minutes ago, KoKo said:

The book by Bella Stumbo "12th of Never"  ~ I'm dying to read the book and have been looking on Amazon and Ebay.  Is it the Deadly Divorce of Dan & Betty B or Should Betty Broderick ever be free?   And am I looking at the right book, or are they REALLY over $100 ?   

On another thread I told people about openlibrary.org where you can read it for free. I see it's checked out, but you could be put on the waitlist.

https://openlibrary.org/works/OL17735327W/Until_the_twelfth_of_never

 

 

[chocolatine]

12 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

32 minutes ago, KoKo said:

The book by Bella Stumbo "12th of Never"  ~ I'm dying to read the book and have been looking on Amazon and Ebay.  Is it the Deadly Divorce of Dan & Betty B or Should Betty Broderick ever be free?   And am I looking at the right book, or are they REALLY over $100 ?   

On another thread I told people about openlibrary.org where you can read it for free. I see it's checked out, but you could be put on the waitlist.

https://openlibrary.org/works/OL17735327W/Until_the_twelfth_of_never

And if you don't want to wait, you can get in on Amazon for $10 (Kindle version) or $18 (paperback).

[Annber03]

8 hours ago, Marmiarmo said:

Linda keeping Betty’s wedding china (which, by all accounts, was nothing special to anyone but her) was just another bit of vindictive gameplay on Dan’s and/or Linda’s part.  I get being pissed at Betty, and I get wanting to stick it to her after she has driven through your front door, called you See-You-Next-Tuesday-face, and trashed your home...but you kinda already did stick it to her by marrying Dan, so give her her damned dishes.

This. I get wanting to get back at her for all her nastiness towards them, but at the same time, personally, I'd feel weird keeping my fiance's ex-wife's stuff around. I would want to start anew with my own stuff. 

Quote

And Christian Slater does smarmy sooooo well.  If the real Dan was that smug during the divorce hearing, I could almost forgive Betty.  Almost.

Seriously, I was thinking that same thing this episode. He's been very good in this role, indeed-really bringing the cocky attitude. 

[Armchair Critic]

41 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

This. I get wanting to get back at her for all her nastiness towards them, but at the same time, personally, I'd feel weird keeping my fiance's ex-wife's stuff around. I would want to start anew with my own stuff. 

Dan and Linda's bedspread was Betty's. Strange.

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

Dan and Linda's bedspread was Betty's. Strange.

Wow, really? 

Okay, yeah, that's...weird. 

[Aethera]

Folks, please remember to stick to the episode, and not get ahead of the show. Not everyone knows what happens next. I've moved spoilery posts to the Fact vs. Fiction Thread.

[Mrs. Hanson]

4 hours ago, cinsays said:

I guess I heard it wrong because I thought I heard the judge say she would only get the money if neither of them married again. 

Dan was just a malicious bastard

 

You heard right:  I just watched the ruling again, the judge said "$16,000 monthly until the death or remarriage of either party."  That seems really odd as Dan could get married the next day!

Per the damn china: Just return it.  Get that energy out of your house.

[Elizzikra]

13 hours ago, geauxaway said:

I hear ya!  But it’s easy to overlook things when you are the queen of the manor.   In one of the earlier episodes it seemed like she was getting pressure from her parents to settle down (they probably meant with a peer, not her married boss), and I’m guessing at her age a lot of her friends were getting married and starting families.  She seemed really bothered and frustrated in that scene, like “why can’t I find a guy?!”

I think that Linda was only 19 when she first met Dan. Had Linda lived, she and I would be the same age now. At least where I grew up, 19 was awfully young to get married. Most of us didn’t really feel pressure until mid to late 20’s and some of us not until later than that. I don’t think that Linda necessarily felt pressure to get married but it did seem that she was a little unrooted in early adulthood. I don’t think she went to college; she didn’t have or seem to be developing a lot of professional skills and it sounds like she was working temp jobs and figuring out what she was going to do with her life. All of which is fine in your early 20’s when you are responsible only for yourself.

If I’m a little more jaded, I say Linda was smart enough to realize that her youth and beauty were valuable - and time limited assets. While temping at a law firm, she was in an excellent position to cash in on them and find a wealthy husband. Call me cynical, but if middle-aged, married with four kids Dan Broderick III had been the security guard or the janitor in the building, I don’t think that Linda would have fallen in love with him.

[lovesnark]

33 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

I think that Linda was only 19 when she first met Dan. Had Linda lived, she and I would be the same age now. At least where I grew up, 19 was awfully young to get married. Most of us didn’t really feel pressure until mid to late 20’s and some of us not until later than that. I don’t think that Linda necessarily felt pressure to get married but it did seem that she was a little unrooted in early adulthood. I don’t think she went to college; she didn’t have or seem to be developing a lot of professional skills and it sounds like she was working temp jobs and figuring out what she was going to do with her life. All of which is fine in your early 20’s when you are responsible only for yourself.

If I’m a little more jaded, I say Linda was smart enough to realize that her youth and beauty were valuable - and time limited assets. While temping at a law firm, she was in an excellent position to cash in on them and find a wealthy husband. Call me cynical, but if middle-aged, married with four kids Dan Broderick III had been the security guard or the janitor in the building, I don’t think that Linda would have fallen in love with him.

Linda was 21 when she met Dan, 28 when they got married.

[geauxaway]

1 hour ago, Elizzikra said:

I think that Linda was only 19 when she first met Dan. Had Linda lived, she and I would be the same age now. At least where I grew up, 19 was awfully young to get married. Most of us didn’t really feel pressure until mid to late 20’s and some of us not until later than that. I don’t think that Linda necessarily felt pressure to get married but it did seem that she was a little unrooted in early adulthood. I don’t think she went to college; she didn’t have or seem to be developing a lot of professional skills and it sounds like she was working temp jobs and figuring out what she was going to do with her life. All of which is fine in your early 20’s when you are responsible only for yourself.

If I’m a little more jaded, I say Linda was smart enough to realize that her youth and beauty were valuable - and time limited assets. While temping at a law firm, she was in an excellent position to cash in on them and find a wealthy husband. Call me cynical, but if middle-aged, married with four kids Dan Broderick III had been the security guard or the janitor in the building, I don’t think that Linda would have fallen in love with him.

But in the show, Linda was shown as being frustrated and pressured from her family as to why she wasn’t in a serious and committed relationship.  In this version of events they made it clear this was a point of contention with her and her family.   Of course if he was the janitor she probably would not have fallen in love with him. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Opening scene:

Linda Won't Extend An Olive Branch

Dan Puts Betty In Her Place

Betty Finds An Ally

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[poeticlicensed]

16 hours ago, KoKo said:

The book by Bella Stumbo "12th of Never"  ~ I'm dying to read the book and have been looking on Amazon and Ebay.  Is it the Deadly Divorce of Dan & Betty B or Should Betty Broderick ever be free?   And am I looking at the right book, or are they REALLY over $100 ?   

I got the kindle version from amazon for 9.99

[Persnickety1]

16 hours ago, KoKo said:

The book by Bella Stumbo "12th of Never"  ~ I'm dying to read the book and have been looking on Amazon and Ebay.  Is it the Deadly Divorce of Dan & Betty B or Should Betty Broderick ever be free?   And am I looking at the right book, or are they REALLY over $100 ?   

Good gawd almighty, I just found "Forsaking All Others" (a Broderick book I haven't yet read) on Amazon...for over $500.  

I guess places are really capitalizing on the Dirty John series.  

Seriously, $500 for a book.  I'm gobsmacked.  

[chocolatine]

12 hours ago, geauxaway said:

But in the show, Linda was shown as being frustrated and pressured from her family as to why she wasn’t in a serious and committed relationship.

IIRC, she was never shown as being pressured by her family. She told Dan that, at a family function, her family asked her if she was seeing anyone and she couldn't look her father in the eye and tell him she was seeing a married man. This was her way to try to pressure Dan into leaving Betty so she, Linda, could be with him "officially".

3 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

Seriously, $500 for a book.  I'm gobsmacked.  

To those of you seeing ridiculously expensive books on Amazon, those are out-of-print editions and the sellers - not Amazon - are jacking up the price since they only have a few copies to sell. Look for editions that are in print and sold directly by Amazon, those are usually reasonably priced.

I thought the actress who played the support group brunette lady looked familiar; I was trying to place her and it finally occurred to me that she played John Meehan's first wife on the first Dirty John season. Then I went on the show's cast page on IMDB, and there are quite a few actors who've appeared in both seasons. Jeff Perry (aka Thatcher Gray/Mr. Katimski) the expert witness psychiatrist on this season, played a lawyer last season, and the actress who played Doug Savant's character's wife also played John's sister Denise last season.

Edited July 3, 2020 by chocolatine

[Joimiaroxeu]

That judge was paid off, wasn't he? Dan just seemed awfully sure that everything would go his way. And everything did.

Quote

I believe Betty scrawled that writing on the newspaper clip.  I don't think anyone ever mailed it to her, unless she mailed it to herself.  And considering her mind, anything it possible,

Yeah, that was my take on that moment near the end of the episode. She found the original clipping and realized the one with the stuff scrawled on it was a copy. Why would she have both?

[KCMO816]

Does anyone know the maintenance laws in CA back then? I know where I live, maintenance was tax deductible by the party paying and taxed as income to the party receiving. That was just amended within the past few years; again, where I live not sure about CA family law.

There is no way the dissolution judgment would have allowed maintenance to end upon remarriage of either party. Betty's remarriage, yes. No way for Dan's remarriage. If that were the case, every spouse who is ordered to pay would remarry as soon as the dissolution judgment was handed down to weasel out of paying their ex. 

I don't think the judge had any other option than to accept Dan's valuation of his business. Betty didn't offer evidence to rebut it. Had she had an attorney, that would have been done, along with the ridiculous notion that Betty did not contribute financially to the marriage while Dan was in school. She really screwed the pooch representing herself. The judge didn't have to be paid off; Betty's actions all but secured their settlement would go in Dan's favor.

As for the child custody matter, she did herself in on that, too. Among other things, the Court looks for which parent would encourage frequent, meaningful and continuing contact with the other parent. Obviously Betty wasn't the best candidate for that issue.

 

 

 

[txhorns79]

8 hours ago, chocolatine said:

To those of you seeing ridiculously expensive books on Amazon, those are out-of-print editions and the sellers - not Amazon - are jacking up the price since they only have a few copies to sell. Look for editions that are in print and sold directly by Amazon, those are usually reasonably priced.

I'd also say that a seller can set whatever price they want for a book.  It does not mean anyone is going to actually buy it at that price. 

 

1 hour ago, KCMO816 said:

As for the child custody matter, she did herself in on that, too. Among other things, the Court looks for which parent would encourage frequent, meaningful and continuing contact with the other parent. Obviously Betty wasn't the best candidate for that issue.

The Court really looks at the best interests of the child.  One thing Betty proved during the divorce that was that her behavior was, at best, erratic, she ignored the law when it didn't suit her needs and she was not above using the children as ammunition to hurt Dan.