S05.E08: Bagman

[ShadowFacts]

Did Mike take the license plate off the Esteem?  What was the point, there is still a VIN number. 

6 hours ago, Bannon said:

My guess is that Mike was Marine sniper in Vietnam. They don't walk in circles

 

6 hours ago, Bannon said:

I'm pretty sure that Mike is in his early to mid 50s, and Banks is trying to play 20 years younger than he is. He's a great actor, but it can be tough in the action scenes.

If he was in Vietnam he is closer to 70 than in his 50s.  Which is what he looks like and moves like. 

[Armchair Critic]

No pity for Saul, what an idiot. This seemed more like a BB episode, I really enjoyed it.

[tiredofwork]

I don't think this is a spoiler, just my speculation...

Seems like Gus's plan is to kill Lalo when Lalo jumps bail down to Mexico.  He plans to make it appear Lalo's enemies will kill him.  So Gus must have had prior knowledge that Lalo's enemy would get word on the 7 mil cash and try to rob it.  Hence he sent Mike down to keep an eye on the transport by Saul.  When that robbery was attempted, Mike took the rivals out..

So I am thinking that the stage is set for Gus's plan that Lalo's eventual killing will appear to be revenge of that rival gang.

My question is how will Saul explain all this to Lalo?  He is going to have to explain the delay and what caused him to be stranded and Lalo would have to get word that a bunch of bodies, vehicles were found at the drop site, Lalo is going to want to know who was shooting to protect Saul?

[scenario]

47 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Did Mike take the license plate off the Esteem?  What was the point, there is still a VIN number. 

 

If he was in Vietnam he is closer to 70 than in his 50s.  Which is what he looks like and moves like. 

Then Vietnam War was from 1955 to 1975 but there were not many troops there until President Johnston started to build them up around 1964 or so. Assuming he was 18 when he went in that meant he was born somewhere around 1950. The show is set in the 2000's so that would make Mike somewhere in his late 50's if he enrolled in 1964 near the beginning of the buildup or in his early 50's if he enrolled near the end of the war. 

[NoReally]

One question I had:

When Mike and Saul had been walking in the desert for quite a while -- sunburned, tired, out of water -- why, when Saul decoyed the remaining bad guy didn't Mike wait for the guy to stop his truck and get out before shooting?

That way, he could've both had an easier shot and avoided getting the truck wrecked, so he and Saul would've had transportation.

[Ellaria]

10 hours ago, scenario said:

How many cars did the badguys have? 5, 6. Mike shot out the tires of the cars but most cars have spares. It seems weird that every car was out of commission and not one of the bad guys brought extra water.

Even with the tires shot out, they weren't all shot out. I doubt he shot out all the spares or the the tires on the far side of the cars. 

Find a car that's still working and swap tires around. Who cares if the tires the wrong size. As long as the holes in the rim line up, go for it.  

Thank you. I kept yelling "use another car" at the TV. Perhaps one of them could have been driven. Yes, of course, changing tires keeps them visible and unprotected for a period of time. Still...

Kim continues with her string of poor choices. I am increasingly uncomfortable with her scenes.

Alternatively, watching these episodes is often an odd viewing experience because we know Saul's current situation. At no point did I worry that he wasn't going to make it out of the desert. Nonetheless, this was an incredibly tense episode. That's a credit to brilliant writing, directing, and acting.

This was also another visually stunning episode. BB/BCS have a unique look that is interesting and quirky. Anyone that has driven thru the Southwest knows how well they capture its austere beauty.

Saul went on quite a journey in this episode. From initially turning down Lalo's request to the false bravado in "Yo soy abogado" to his final stance in the mylar blanket...such fantastic moments for this character. I like Saul less and less as time moves on but there is a great deal of depth to him. I suppose that is why Kim stays. Unfortunately, the expression "a step too far" has no meaning for him.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Ellaria Sand

[Ed-]

7 minutes ago, tiredofwork said:

I don't think this is a spoiler, just my speculation...

Seems like Gus's plan is to kill Lalo when Lalo jumps bail down to Mexico.  He plans to make it appear Lalo's enemies will kill him.  So Gus must have had prior knowledge that Lalo's enemy would get word on the 7 mil cash and try to rob it.  Hence he sent Mike down to keep an eye on the transport by Saul.  When that robbery was attempted, Mike took the rivals out..

So I am thinking that the stage is set for Gus's plan that Lalo's eventual killing will appear to be revenge of that rival gang.

My question is how will Saul explain all this to Lalo?  He is going to have to explain the delay and what caused him to be stranded and Lalo would have to get word that a bunch of bodies, vehicles were found at the drop site, Lalo is going to want to know who was shooting to protect Saul?

I think that:

1. Mike would follow Saul in any case. The tracker in the Esteem's gas cap was likely his. Surprisingly, Saul's apartment was not (yet) bugged, as Mike's reaction to Kim's involvement seemed genuine.
2. Mike told the truth that he had no prior knowledge of the confrontation with the rivals of the cartel. Depending on his plan for Lalo, Gus may or may not send someone to clean up the vehicles and the bodies.
3. Lalo knows something is up, but he is a guy of improvisation. I suspect he may even OK a very dumb explanation from Saul, and then do a sudden move the next day. For example, I suspect that he may kidnap Kim and take her to Mexico. It may be Mike vs Werner (Half or Full Measure) all over again. In any case, I think and hope Kim will not die, and will either carry on transforming into Mrs. Goodman, or will need to use the vacuum guy's services (or equivalent).

[Milburn Stone]

2 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Kim cooked her own goose by marrying Jimmy.

After that scene with Kim and Lalo, I'm finding it harder, not easier, to assess responsibility and blame between Jimmy and Kim. It became apparent to me on a whole new level that there's a reason she's been making foolish, and maybe fatal, decisions. She loves the guy.

[Armchair Critic]

10 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

She loves the guy

That was my first thought too when she was at the prison with Lalo, Kim really does love Jimmy and that is going to be her downfall.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, scenario said:

Then Vietnam War was from 1955 to 1975 but there were not many troops there until President Johnston started to build them up around 1964 or so. Assuming he was 18 when he went in that meant he was born somewhere around 1950. The show is set in the 2000's so that would make Mike somewhere in his late 50's if he enrolled in 1964 near the beginning of the buildup or in his early 50's if he enrolled near the end of the war. 

Yes, you're probably right, I was pegging him as born in about 1950 but forgot this isn't taking place now.  So in 2005-ish he would be 55.  But I think they were drafting up to age 26 so he had that happened to him in 1970 he could have been born in 1944, but I take your point.  And he still looks way older than 55 to these eyes.  He's a little like Willie Nelson, always looks about the same age. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

10 hours ago, gallimaufry said:

One logistical question... why on earth would the court want $7 million to be delivered in cash anyway?  Surely if someone is raising bail for a murderer and arsonist, you'd want to be able to trace where the money came from.  What's the benefit to the court of a cash transaction?

Cash bail doesn't mean one necessarily pays in cash. For a large amount, a cashier's check is more customary. It does mean that the defendant puts up the entire amount up front, as opposed to bond, which requires a percentage paid to a bondsman along with a fee and possibly collateral (thus you hear of parents putting up their house as security for a child's bond, and losing it if the child absconds.) Cash bail is a more serious proposition than the same amount of bond. It's obviously harder to come up with for most people.

 https://www.betterbail.org/help/difference-between-bail-and-bond

Edited April 7, 2020 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, NoReally said:

That way, he could've both had an easier shot and avoided getting the truck wrecked, so he and Saul would've had transportation.

They could have had water, too, because didn't Mike fish out a busted up gallon jug from the wreck?

 

2 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Cash bail doesn't mean one necessarily pays in cash. For a large amount, a cashier's check is more customary. It does mean that the defendant puts up the entire amount up front, as opposed to bond, which requires a percentage paid to a bondsman along with a fee and collateral (thus you hear of parents putting up their house as security for a child 's bond, and losing it if the child absconds.) Cash bail is a more serious proposition than the same amount of bond. It's obviously harder to come up with for most people.

 https://www.betterbail.org/help/difference-between-bail-and-bond

It's kind of a ridiculous concept to be bringing bags full of cash for bail.  That's not going to get on the government radar at all.  What was the point of the secret drop off/pick up if the bagman is going to haul it out in the open into a courthouse?

[MrWhyt]

4 hours ago, gallimaufry said:

One logistical question... why on earth would the court want $7 million to be delivered in cash anyway?  Surely if someone is raising bail for a murderer and arsonist, you'd want to be able to trace where the money came from.  What's the benefit to the court of a cash transaction?

to make it harder to generate the bail, the thought is "ok I'll set bail for your client but he's going to be staying in jail cause he's not going to be able to fulfill my conditions".

[EtheltoTillie]

43 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

They could have had water, too, because didn't Mike fish out a busted up gallon jug from the wreck?

 

It's kind of a ridiculous concept to be bringing bags full of cash for bail.  That's not going to get on the government radar at all.  What was the point of the secret drop off/pick up if the bagman is going to haul it out in the open into a courthouse?

Besides, don't they have to nowadays show it's clean money, not drug money.  Even if it's a money order.  Don't know if that was true during time period of the show. 

[Bannon]

51 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Yes, you're probably right, I was pegging him as born in about 1950 but forgot this isn't taking place now.  So in 2005-ish he would be 55.  But I think they were drafting up to age 26 so he had that happened to him in 1970 he could have been born in 1944, but I take your point.  And he still looks way older than 55 to these eyes.  He's a little like Willie Nelson, always looks about the same age. 

Goodman has commented hinself about the problematic aspect of an actor in his mid 70s playing a character in his mid 50s. Too bad Gilligan and Co. don't have the budget to use the de-aging technology that Scorcese used in The Irishman

[tennisgurl]

11 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

This is why as beautiful as the desert is, I would be scared as hell to live there, because it could take a mere car issue (and not one that was in the middle of a drug war!) to get you stranded for hours.  Yikes!

A few years ago, I went on a road trip out west, and spent a lot of time driving through the desert in Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona. It was so beautiful, and so desolate, that we could go hours without seeing a single sign of life except for telephone poles, not even another car. It was amazingly breathtaking, but I was also thinking that, if our car broke down and I couldn't get signal on my phone, we were in real trouble. 

So Jimmy finds out that, after everything, it was $100,000 that cost him the last links to being a legit and respectable lawyer. I mean, that boat had already kind of sailed, but now he has attached a motor to that boat and sailed far far away. Bagman to the cartels, witnessing shoot outs, and now Kim is involved. A banner day for the Goodmans! 

Speaking of, hearing Kim call herself Mrs. Goodman or Jimmy's wife is just...so weird. I cant believe she went and saw Lalo, now he knows her and has some idea of what her deal is, this is all going to end so badly. I do like Lalo in jail actually, probably more than I like him on the outside. He just gives zero fucks about any of this, he knows that he has the money and the connections to get out of this, this is all just a minor annoyance to him. It does a lot to sell the power of the cartels and the idea that its so hard to get them to really pay for their crimes, they just have so much power. Any money that people bring up, no matter how ludicrously large it is, is just met with a shrug and a "sure, whatever". 

You can definitely see Vince Gilligan all over this one, it was very filled with visual story telling, not so much with dialogue, and lots of symbolism, with a lot of both details (especially with props used metaphorically and to set a mood) and large scope shots as well. He especially did a great job showing the massive scope of the desert, how long it goes on for with so few signs of human life. The long shots, plus the increasing exhaustion of Jimmy and Mike, really sold how far away this is from any civilization. The foil blanket and how Jimmy refused to use it was an especially good use of props and characterization. Especially considering so much of this whole mess that Jimmy has found himself in is because he cant deal with his anger and grief over his dead brother. 

Seriously Jimmy, when your hiding from bullets, covered in blood, in the middle of the desert, you have to be wondering...what choices led me to this moment? How did I get here? Were mistakes made?

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, GussieK said:

Besides, don't they have to nowadays show it's clean money, not drug money.  Even if it's a money order.  Don't know if that was true during time period of the show. 

Anybody paying  7 million dollars in bail, by any method, is going to attract attention. The point is that once the Judge set the bail amount, there is no legal way to prevent release on bail, if the money arrives. The judge  didn't think she was dealing with someone that far up the food chain. It'll be interesting to see if Hank gets involved, because a 7 millions dollar bail payment being made would attract DEA attention. Lalo wants to get  back to Mexico. Mike wants bad things to happen to Lalo, in a way that doesn't cast suspicion on Gus. Hijinks ensue.

[teddysmom]

12 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Kim going to see Lalo.  I cannot see how she thought this could in any way work out for her.

Since Saul mentions Lalo in his first appearance on Breaking Bad, I don't think it will be Lalo that does anything to her.  Jimmy would kill him with his bare hands if he hurt her. 

I think if anything, she'll be picked up and taken to Ed's Vacuum Store.  Maybe they shot a scene with Robert  just in case, while they were shooting El Camino? 

[ShadowFacts]

9 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Seriously Jimmy, when your hiding from bullets, covered in blood, in the middle of the desert, you have to be wondering...what choices led me to this moment? How did I get here? Were mistakes made?

I thought Bob Odenkirk played the terror and shock really well.  Then I soon thought, wow, Saul snapped out of it fast.  I suppose you'd have to when lugging heavy bags in the heat.  If it were me, long term, I would never forget the feeling of that gunfight and would want to stay far, far away from the possibility of it happening again, but as we know, Saul keeps on playing with fire.

12 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

A few years ago, I went on a road trip out west, and spent a lot of time driving through the desert in Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona. It was so beautiful, and so desolate, that we could go hours without seeing a single sign of life except for telephone poles, not even another car. It was amazingly breathtaking, but I was also thinking that, if our car broke down and I couldn't get signal on my phone, we were in real trouble. 

We have that here in the great north -- you can go long distances without passing a house, there is no cell service, there are no passing cars.  It's worrisome from a medical emergency perspective, makes me nervous now that I'm not a carefree young thing.

[Bannon]

Really want to compliment the actors for this episode. Just top shelf work by all of them, on every level, facial expression, body movement and language, vocal intonation, etc., in every single scene, which by extension means the direction was top shelf as well. As to cinematohraphy? I will say again that this show makes the vast majority of television drama look like local cable access.

[Pike Ludwell]

Saul can do some very sharp things, but in this episode they made him out to look so stupid as to be a clown.

(1) Agreeing to pick up the $7 million, knowing a cartel was involved. And way way out in the middle of nowhere. When $7M is involved it is quite possible there will be lowlife people finding out and going after it. It is inherently dangerous.

(2) Not listening to Kim in telling him not to do it. And he thinks a reply of "I will be OK. I SWEAR!" (said it twice) means anything real? How the H does he know? When people say things like "I swear" or "trust me" about something they have no way of guaranteeing, it reflects badly on them, to me anyway.

(3) Driving way way out to the middle of nowhere in an old, crappy Suzuki Esteem. He's getting $100K. Why not rent some other inexpensive model (inexpensive, since he is so keen on not attracting attention), but in excellent condition, with low mileage? (Yeah, that decision isn't what caused him the problems - but it could have.)

(4) Dragging the money bags and not constantly checking to see how they are holding up. I mean like, duh!!

Mike seemed stupid in not waiting till the guy got out of the car before shooting him -- unless he thought the guy was going to run Saul down, which could be the case. I'm not sure. But I doubt he would have run Saul down as he could have damaged or spread the money all around, or damaged the vehicle.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Pike Ludwell

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I thought Bob Odenkirk played the terror and shock really well.  Then I soon thought, wow, Saul snapped out of it fast.  I suppose you'd have to when lugging heavy bags in the heat.  If it were me, long term, I would never forget the feeling of that gunfight and would want to stay far, far away from the possibility of it happening again, but as we know, Saul keeps on playing with fire.

We have that here in the great north -- you can go long distances without passing a house, there is no cell service, there are no passing cars.  It's worrisome from a medical emergency perspective, makes me nervous now that I'm not a carefree young thing.

I've lived in the desert wilderness of the Southwest, and the vast emptiness of the northern rural areas close to Canada. They are similar in this regard; in the most harsh weather situations, which tend to be at opposite sides of the calendar, they are places that will most usually kill the unprepared unlucky, and sometimes even the prepared unlucky. -65 windchill in the dark of night, or 110 in the blinding sun, are merciless executioners.

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, Pike Ludwell said:

Saul can do some very sharp things, but in this episode they made him out to look so stupid as to be a clown.

(1) Agreeing to pick up the $7 million, knowing a cartel was involved. And way way out in the middle of nowhere. When $7M is involved it is quite possible there will be lowlife people finding out and going after it. It is inherently dangerous.

(2) Not listening to Kim in telling him not to do it. And he thinks a reply of "I will be OK. I SWEAR!" (said it twice) means anything real? How the H does he know? When people say things like "I swear" or "trust me" about something they have no way of guaranteeing, it reflects badly on them, to me anyway.

(3) Driving way way out to the middle of nowhere in an old, crappy Suzuki Esteem. He's getting $100K. Why not rent some other inexpensive model, so as to not attract attention, but in excellent condition, with low mileage? (Yeah, that decision isn't what caused him the problems - but it could have.)

(4) Dragging the money bags and not constantly checking to see how they are holding up. I mean like, duh!!

Mike seemed stupid in not waiting till the guy got out of the car before shooting him -- unless he thought the guy was going to run Saul down, which could be the case. I'm not sure. But I doubt he would have run Saul down as he could have damaged or spread the money all around.

I think it demonstrates the depth of Jimmy's grief and anger, that it just ruins his ability to think clearly with regard to what actions he will pursue.

As far as dragging the bags, when it gets to the point that drinking your own urine is something on the table, your cognitive function is being destroyed by dehydration and heat. People who die in the desert sun first go mad.

[PeterPirate]

I also found Lalo's demeanor somewhat odd.  First, his willingness to let Jimmy walk away with the details about the pick-up spot written down, and then his nonchalance at the news that both Jimmy and the money were missing.  I don't know if that means anything beyond an acting choice.  But Jimmy went the extra mile to carry out his task for Lalo, and in the end he will believe Lalo wants him dead.  I cannot begin to speculate how that will come to pass.  

Talk about Gift of the Magi at work.  Kim revealed her identity to the cartel for Jimmy, and Jimmy drank piss for Kim.  This is twu wuv, y'all.

As in the previous episode, Kim did not express concern over the morality of being a friend of the cartel, only the danger of it.  This attitude of Kim goes all the way back her reaction to hearing about the squat cobbler caper.  

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by PeterPirate

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I will renounce watching all TV if Pam Grier shows up to help Kim flee.  Few would have the guts to go there.  Fewer still have earned that privilege.  G/G have.  I'll be thrilled if we get one, last, appearance by Robert Forster.

The firefight and subsequent escape by Mike was ridiculous.  Definitely a time for suspending disbelief.  A real off note for me was that Mike seemed surprised/was caught off-guard that Saul was creating himself a target.  He realized he needed to get the pursuer in his crosshairs.  IMO, he would have offered up some type of plan before Saul was making way.   

[Bryce Lynch]

Mike shooting the driver was my plan all along.  But, why didn't he wait for him to stop the car?  Then, Mike and Saul would have had a functioning vehicle to drive home in.  Also a shot at a stationary target would be much easier.

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I will renounce watching all TV if Pam Grier shows up to help Kim flee.  Few would have the guts to go there.  Fewer still have earned that privilege.  G/G have.  I'll be thrilled if we get one, last, appearance by Robert Forster.

The firefight and subsequent escape by Mike was ridiculous.  Definitely a time for suspending disbelief.  A real off note for me was that Mike seemed surprised/was caught off-guard that Saul was creating himself a target.  He realized he needed to get the pursuer in his crosshairs.  IMO, he would have offered up some type of plan before Saul was making way.   

Really disagree about the firefight being ridiculous, assuming Mike is an experienced Marine or Ranger sniper, which I do. There are multiple accounts of a single  highly skilled military sniper decimating entire enemy units in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, right up through Iraq and Afghanistan, and some of those enemy units were far more highly trained than typical drug runners, and were in combat situations where encountering a highly trained sniper was expected. The men Mike was killing were likely mostly untrained gun yokels, who thought they were holding up a gringo lawyer putz in an Esteem. All of a sudden, somebody shows up with a sniper weapon, and more importantly, that somebody has been trained better than 99.9999% of the people who have ever held such a weapon. I know who I would be betting on.

[Bannon]

8 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Mike shooting the driver was my plan all along.  But, why didn't he wait for him to stop the car?  Then, Mike and Saul would have had a functioning vehicle to drive home in.  Also a shot at a stationary target would be much easier.

He's exhausted, extremely dehydrated, in the blazing sun. He didn't account for the need to see if Saul obeyed his order to stay down, and by the time he saw Saul was up, it was too late. It appeared to me that the driver intended to kill or injure Saul with the vehicle, and Mike needs a healthy Saul to post the bond.

[Bannon]

Just now, icemiser69 said:

Yeah, it seemed like the driver was going to run Jimmy down, but that would have been a really dumb idea.  Those bags containing the money could have been torn to shreds in the process, or Jimmy could have bled all over the bags of money.

Drug money gun yokels tend to be out on the left tail of the bell shaped cognition curve.

[PeterPirate]

From the driver's perspective, the guy carrying the money could have been armed, and he had a companion who definitely was armed and was a fantastic shot.  So running over the bagman was the best option.  Stopping to collect the bags is another thing.

I don't know how things work in the drug business, but in Star Trek it's a standard tactic for one ship to "play dead" and lure the other ship into approaching slowly until they are in phaser range.  Badger and Skinny Pete would totally understand what I'm talking about.  

Edited April 7, 2020 by PeterPirate

[Bannon]

2 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

From the driver's perspective, the guy carrying the money could have been armed, and he had a companion who definitely was armed and was a fantastic shot.  So running over the bagman was the best option.  Stopping to collect the bags is another thing.

I don't know how things work in the drug business, but in Star Trek it's a standard tactic for one ship to "play dead" and lure the other ship into approaching slowly until they are in phaser range.  Badger and Skinny Pete would totally understand what I'm talking about.  

HA!

[chick binewski]

9 hours ago, ahmerali said:

I thought at first it was Fring too, but the best conclusion is a rival arm of the Juarez cartel. The Salamancas aren't the only part of it and surely they have other enemies.

They're the cartel. They're OG gangsters. If his 7 million didn't arrive today, he'll arrange another 7 million through the cousins and some other mule.

 

The reason I thought it might involve Lalo (or a Fring chess move or anyone else but random cartel) is bc the jeep was waiting for Saul's car, not the cousins'. I just couldn't stretch my imagination that they use the same pick-up route for every cash transfer.

4 hours ago, Xena said:

Ok, I was pretty stoned watching last night, but didn't Mike take the gas cap out of the Esteem?  I just figured that's how the robber gang knew the drop spot - someone had bugged the gas cap before Saul left town.  

 

2 hours ago, Ed- said:

Mike would follow Saul in any case. The tracker in the Esteem's gas cap was likely his. Surprisingly, Saul's apartment was not (yet) bugged, as Mike's reaction to Kim's involvement seemed genuine.

Idk why I get a kick out of revisiting the gas cap tracker. And yes, when Saul started talking about Kim to Mike my immediate reaction was *dude! abort!*. Mike definetely had a genuine reaction to Saul's carelessness. 

[ShadowFacts]

55 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The firefight and subsequent escape by Mike was ridiculous.  Definitely a time for suspending disbelief.  A real off note for me was that Mike seemed surprised/was caught off-guard that Saul was creating himself a target.  He realized he needed to get the pursuer in his crosshairs.  IMO, he would have offered up some type of plan before Saul was making way.   

I thought it was unbelievable, too.  Even if Mike the sniper has deadly accuracy, the timing of it was too lucky/perfect -- he hits it at just the moment the baddie gives the execute order for Saul.  Also, Mike said if he had known there would be that situation he would have brought more men, so he looks a little superhuman. 

[Bannon]

7 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I thought it was unbelievable, too.  Even if Mike the sniper has deadly accuracy, the timing of it was too lucky/perfect -- he hits it at just the moment the baddie gives the execute order for Saul.  Also, Mike said if he had known there would be that situation he would have brought more men, so he looks a little superhuman. 

Well, of course the timing of the first shot was written for dramatic effect. This isn't Band of Brothers, after all. As to a highly trained sniper being able to kill that many of the enemy in a single brief encounter, all I can say is that there have been many real life combat accounts of snipers doing just that, when the enemy was far more formidable and prepared than the men that Mike was killing.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Bannon

[Adiba]

I'm going to be that person and say I wasn't thrilled with the drawn-out trek through the desert scenes.  Yes, I know that it was necessary to the story, but for me, it went on a bit too long. I also didn't need to see Jimmy's dangling pee bottle and him drinking it, either. Just my squeamishness--ymmv.

I'm also on board with those who thought that Mike would wait until the gang guys got out of the truck to come after Jimmy before shooting. Jimmy could have walked off-road to the rocks so that they had to get out to grab the money bags.

When Kim went to see Lalo, I said "Oh, nooooo!" out loud to the TV. Hope she survives the series, but NOT as Mrs. Goodman.

[scenario]

30 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I thought it was unbelievable, too.  Even if Mike the sniper has deadly accuracy, the timing of it was too lucky/perfect -- he hits it at just the moment the baddie gives the execute order for Saul.  Also, Mike said if he had known there would be that situation he would have brought more men, so he looks a little superhuman. 

I don't think it was that unbelievable. I'm making a few assumptions. Mike is an experienced sniper. Mike either knows the roads or has a good map. 

Mike follows Saul by the gas cap tracker. He sees Saul go down a dead end road. Now at this point there are 3 possibilities.

1) Everything goes to plan. Then he doesn't have to do anything,

2) It's a double cross and the cousins kill Saul. He doesn't know the exact location of the drop and he doesn't want the cousins to see him so he can't really do anything about it.

3) Someone tries to ambush Saul. That's something he can do something about.

He  watches Saul go down a dead end road. He knows that Saul will be coming back this way. He looks for the perfect place to ambush Saul, hides his car and gets in position. He sees the bad guys come in so he moves to get the perfect position. He sees Saul's car coming from miles away. The ambush happens at the most logical place for an ambush to happen. He's watching the whole thing through his sniper scope. Waits for everyone to get out of their cars and in sight. Guy raises gun. He then kills them all one by one. 

He's got the high ground. He's all set up well before the bad guys get there because he's following Saul and they are trying to stay behind the cousins and not be seen. 

[Ed-]

3 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

It's kind of a ridiculous concept to be bringing bags full of cash for bail.  That's not going to get on the government radar at all.  What was the point of the secret drop off/pick up if the bagman is going to haul it out in the open into a courthouse?

Indeed, under normal circumstances, I would expect the cash to be first properly laundered (which may take weeks or months), and wired or deposited as a check, and at a much higher fee than a measly 1.4% or $100,000 of the sum. Even the legal allowable bail premium for New Mexico is 10%. I would expect that to launder $7 million, one would have to shell at least $1 million extra as risk/collateral, if not more. Saul sold himself short, even if not taking the danger of getting killed in the desert into account. If Saul wants to keep doing what he's doing, he needs to charge more, and take more precautions.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Ed-

[Bannon]

12 minutes ago, scenario said:

I don't think it was that unbelievable. I'm making a few assumptions. Mike is an experienced sniper. Mike either knows the roads or has a good map. 

Mike follows Saul by the gas cap tracker. He sees Saul go down a dead end road. Now at this point there are 3 possibilities.

1) Everything goes to plan. Then he doesn't have to do anything,

2) It's a double cross and the cousins kill Saul. He doesn't know the exact location of the drop and he doesn't want the cousins to see him so he can't really do anything about it.

3) Someone tries to ambush Saul. That's something he can do something about.

He  watches Saul go down a dead end road. He knows that Saul will be coming back this way. He looks for the perfect place to ambush Saul, hides his car and gets in position. He sees the bad guys come in so he moves to get the perfect position. He sees Saul's car coming from miles away. The ambush happens at the most logical place for an ambush to happen. He's watching the whole thing through his sniper scope. Waits for everyone to get out of their cars and in sight. Guy raises gun. He then kills them all one by one. 

He's got the high ground. He's all set up well before the bad guys get there because he's following Saul and they are trying to stay behind the cousins and not be seen. 

Yeah, it's impossible to overstate the value of training, in terms of behaving in a way that will keep you alive, when engaged in combat. If you haven't trained, trained, and trained some more, and you see someone 10 feet away get shot through the chest, from a place you can't locate very well at all? You and your associates are pretty likely to do everything wrong, and get killed pretty quickly, if the person with the rifle is among that small group of people who have received extensive training at the highest level.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Bannon

[scenario]

7 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Yeah, it's impossible to overstate the value of training, in terms of behaving in a way that will keep you alive, when engaged in combat. If you haven't trained, trained, and trained some more, and you see someone 10 feet away get shot through the chest, from a place you can't locate very well at all? You and your associates are pretty likely to do everything wrong, and get killed pretty quickly, if the person with the rifle is among that small group of people who have received extensive training at the highest level.

All's Mike needs to do this is to figure out where the ambush is likely to happen which is easy if you and the bad guys have some training. And get there first in time to set up. 

The rest is easy for someone with the training and equipment. 

[PeterPirate]

43 minutes ago, scenario said:

I don't think it was that unbelievable. I'm making a few assumptions. Mike is an experienced sniper. Mike either knows the roads or has a good map. 

Mike follows Saul by the gas cap tracker. He sees Saul go down a dead end road. Now at this point there are 3 possibilities.

1) Everything goes to plan. Then he doesn't have to do anything,

2) It's a double cross and the cousins kill Saul. He doesn't know the exact location of the drop and he doesn't want the cousins to see him so he can't really do anything about it.

3) Someone tries to ambush Saul. That's something he can do something about.

He  watches Saul go down a dead end road. He knows that Saul will be coming back this way. He looks for the perfect place to ambush Saul, hides his car and gets in position. He sees the bad guys come in so he moves to get the perfect position. He sees Saul's car coming from miles away. The ambush happens at the most logical place for an ambush to happen. He's watching the whole thing through his sniper scope. Waits for everyone to get out of their cars and in sight. Guy raises gun. He then kills them all one by one. 

He's got the high ground. He's all set up well before the bad guys get there because he's following Saul and they are trying to stay behind the cousins and not be seen. 

Yes, this all makes sense.  The most difficult part to swallow about the shootout is Mike being in the right location soon after Saul is stopped.  Mike would have to know the right location for an ambush, and then be ready to ambush the ambushers.  

 

Here is a more pleasant reviewer (imo) going over the episode:

 

And here is an interview this person made with Tony Dalton:

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by PeterPirate

[ItCouldBeWorse]

5 hours ago, NoReally said:

When Mike and Saul had been walking in the desert for quite a while -- sunburned, tired, out of water -- why, when Saul decoyed the remaining bad guy didn't Mike wait for the guy to stop his truck and get out before shooting?

I figured Mike was afraid that the bad guy might have shot Saul once he got in shooting range.

[Ohwell]

I actually liked Lalo in his scene with Kim, and how he laughed in her face when she spewed her "spousal privilege" bullshit.  I still can't believe she sat there with that ponytail and thought he'd basically say "Ok,  I'll tell you everything you want to know because you're THE Mrs. Goodman!  Wife of my cartel lawyer!"  

I don't care what happens to her.  She'll be lucky if she gets vacuumed away.

[JudyObscure]

13 hours ago, Dev F said:

They're not each other's cousins, but they were introduced on Breaking Bad as Tuco's cousins and the nickname stuck. It turns out they're also Lalo's cousins, probably just to reinforce the nickname. Though I always did find it weird that none of the Salamancas are in the same immediate family; aside from the twins, the youngest generation are all cousins of each other and nephews of Don Hector, instead of any of them being each other's brothers or Hector's sons.

I picture Hector's sons sitting around that awesome pool, drinking extremely expensive booze, laughing at dirty jokes,  too stupid to actually have much responsibility in the business.  Men like Hector   build big businesses, make a ton of money, then marry showgirls or models and wonder why their sons are so dumb.

Quote

I actually liked Lalo in his scene with Kim, and how he laughed in her face when she spewed her "spousal privilege" bullshit. 

I liked him, too. He seemed surprised that Saul had such a pretty, classy wife and even a little envious when he figured out she was taking the risk because she loved him.

Edited April 7, 2020 by JudyObscure

[peeayebee]

7 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Did Mike take the license plate off the Esteem?  What was the point, there is still a VIN number. 

And papers in the glovebox.

6 hours ago, NoReally said:

When Mike and Saul had been walking in the desert for quite a while -- sunburned, tired, out of water -- why, when Saul decoyed the remaining bad guy didn't Mike wait for the guy to stop his truck and get out before shooting?

That way, he could've both had an easier shot and avoided getting the truck wrecked, so he and Saul would've had transportation.

As others said, the driver was going to run over Saul. He was speeding toward him. Whether that was smart or not (because the money would be scattered) is another question, but the driver may have heard the first shot that missed him and knew he couldn't stop and get out because Mike was such an excellent marksman. Maybe he thought he'd kill Saul, use his truck as a shield, gather what money he could, then flee.

Re the gas cap, I figured it was Mike who used it to track Saul, but wasn't it Victor who we saw use it before? I can't quite remember.

Oh, and Alan Sepinwall mentions in his review that the Cadillac we see being cleaned up in the beginning might end up being given to Saul. 😄

 

[iMonrey]

If Lalo's bail is 7 million doesn't that mean they only have to put down $700K? That's always been my understanding.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, scenario said:

All's Mike needs to do this is to figure out where the ambush is likely to happen which is easy if you and the bad guys have some training. And get there first in time to set up. 

The rest is easy for someone with the training and equipment. 

Easy in a video game maybe.  Mike himself said he would have brought more men, plural, so I think there was some luck involved. 

[Eulipian 5k]

Perfection would have been if Howard was behind the robbery of "The Esteemed" JMM. He would have paid the 100gs just to see Jimmy's Davis & Main Salty Margaritas.

[Bannon]

28 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

If Lalo's bail is 7 million doesn't that mean they only have to put down $700K? That's always been my understanding.

Judges have the option of making bail cash only, which means 100%.

[scenario]

35 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Easy in a video game maybe.  Mike himself said he would have brought more men, plural, so I think there was some luck involved. 

Of course there's luck involved. If a couple of them get into a position where he can't get to them it could turn into a long drawn out waiting game. He had to kill all of them quickly. One ended up getting away, at first. 

Shooting people with no body armor standing out in the open by a trained sniper with the right equipment isn't that difficult. By sniper standards he wasn't that far away. He was in his car and drove to the scene within a minute of when the shooting stopped. He wasn't shooting from a mile away. 

Bang - one dead or badly wounded- what was that? - Bang - two dead or badly wounded - OMG someones shooting at us, where are they? - Bang - three dead - Run and hide - Bang - 4 dead or badly wounded. Now comes the problem for the sniper because the people are in hiding. They are also in a state of panic and shock and not thinking at their best. When they make a mistake they are dead. If one or more of them get in a safe place and stay there, that's were having more people would help.  

Google greatest snipers and there are lots of snipers who killed scores of people in a short amount of time. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by scenario

[ruby24]

What did Lalo say in Spanish when he realized Kim is Saul's wife? I missed it.