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S02.E14: Bad Dads and Grads


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"Be calm and be yourself. If you have to choose one, be calm." 😄

Jackie looked great in that dress. (Not so much the long hair...)

I laughed at the line about Darlene playing basketball and being 2 feet tall. Years ago I went to my mom's 40th high school reunion (my dad was sick so she asked if I wanted to come in his place). At the entrance they had blown up yearbook pages and my mom was on one of them as "most athletic." She's maybe 5'1" and played basketball. I guess "athletic" for girls in the early 60s wasn't quite the same as "athletic" today... 😉

"You can't eat your feelings until you tell me what they are."

This one had some really good one liners.

So, confirmation that Crystal is indeed Ed Jr.'s mom. Maybe next week they'll remember that they are still friends with her..?

Edited by ams1001
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This was better than last week, but the utter lack of any mentions of Crystal is still super weird.

I don't mind the idea of a woman having a child later than her older ones in theory (and certainly there are women in their forties who start their families late due to their careers/marrying later--I wouldn't mind more stories like THAT on TV), but I hope Darlene doesn't. 

Regardless of what they've done to Jackie as a character, Laurie still looks FANTASTIC. I thought the color was too dark (and that the boots didn't really go with it, either), but I certainly wouldn't mind trading my turning-31-this-Friday-year-old body with hers, hee!

OMG, a Little Ed flashback! That's from the episode where Roseanne becomes addicted to bingo, which is one of my favorites! (And interestingly, it's the same episode where we find out Crystal is pregnant with Angela.) Seeing Little!DJ there made me realize he wasn't in this episode at all, though. Awkward. 

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That was a nice talk between Becky and Dan at the restaurant. I really enjoy their heart-to-heart moments like this. And I'm glad that Dan's not going to let his feelings about his dad affect his relationship with Ed Jr. Hopefully he's able to make peace with all this stuff. 

I liked that Mark's concern for Darlene wasn't as obvious as it could've been. He's such a sweet kid. And I loved the "hottest guy ever dated" running joke :D. I wonder if this will all be leading to Darlene ultimately deciding not to have a baby after all. Hopefully if she does make that choice, it won't affect her relationship with Ben. 

Figured early on that that couple wanted something more with Jackie, but it's interesting that she actually seems on board with the idea. Wonder what will come of that, then, should they explore that setup further. 

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I should also say that OF COURSE Jackie was the one to get a storyline about a potential "throuple".

😄

It took me FOREVER to place Jennifer Grey, though--she looked familiar, but I wasn't sure until the closing credits. I know she had her nose done long ago, but it still threw me. She's still Jeannie Bueller from Ferris Bueller's Day Off to me. (I'm one of the few women to prefer Flashdance and Footloose to Dirty Dancing--it is what it is. *shrug*)

 

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4 minutes ago, UYI said:

It took me FOREVER to place Jennifer Grey, though--she looked familiar, but I wasn't sure until the closing credits. I know she had her nose done long ago, but it still threw me. She's still Jeannie Bueller from Ferris Bueller's Day Off to me. (I'm one of the few women to prefer Flashdance and Footloose to Dirty Dancing--it is what it is. *shrug*)

I didn't place her at all (other than a vague feeling of "she looks familiar") and it took me a few seconds to figure out who you were talking about. And I've seen Dirty Dancing many times. 🤣

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No Harris we talked about this.  You can’t date your uncle.

I am so sick of this family and all it’s crazy rules.

 

I am really curious if the show continues on with Jackie and her Thruple.

I really like Dan bonding with Ed Jr.   It would actually be a fun gag to have more Shameless cameos.  

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16 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

I only realized it was Jennifer Grey because although she looked vaguely familar, it was her acting with Clark Gregg that gave me the "lightbulb" moment. She's his real life wife.

Wow, really? Did not know that. 

I thought he looked familiar, too, but I was blanking on the name. There we go, then. 

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Nice to see real life husband and wife Clark Gregg and Jennifer Grey.

I'm not a fan of Dan getting annoyed/mad at Ed Jr because of what their dad didn't/did do.  It's not Ed Jr's fault.  I still think it's weird there hasn't at least been a throw away about Crystal.  The flashback was great!   

Darlene and Ben thinking about having a baby is the STUPIDEST thing!  1. They just got back together even though they said last week that was a good reason to have a baby.  2. If I remember correctly, neither one of them is employed and they are both completely broke.  3. They don't even live together, let alone are married!  

I think at this point, I'm just hate watching this show which is shame because I loved the original run, but the reboot has been a hit or miss...a lot more miss lately.

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I can't with this Darlene considering a baby thing; I rolled with Becky parenting, but I don't know if I can do it again.  Becky chose to continue an unintended pregnancy.  Darlene deliberately procreating under these circumstances -- I'm not sure how many "these stupid choices are sadly typical" storylines I can stomach.  And could we stop with all these hyperbolic reasons for not having a baby and get back to the numerous real-world ones?  I really hate this story arc so far.

Of all the characters to catch up with, why they chose Ed Jr. is beyond me, especially with the weird take on history.  But, hey. 

Dan never once mentioned wanting to go to college, even though he wanted it for his kids, but he was rather dismissive or even contemptuous of "those guys"; that conflicting attitude existing in the same guy can exist for a variety of reasons, whether in real time or when looking back through rose-colored glasses, and is thus one of the rare things that works about this revisionist history of Ed's two families (I don't believe the Dan we saw all those years of the original series wanted to go to college, or that Ed - "work smart, Danny, not hard" - would have denied it to him, no, but I can contort myself to roll with it now). 

I would love to see a polyamorous relationship on TV, even with this sitcom treatment; a "throuple" looking for a new home was recently included on House Hunters, with quite a few years of commitment behind them, and people lost their minds with "what about the children?!" pear-clutching, so we still have a long way to go.  (It's not my jam - I won't commit to one person, let alone two - but representation matters, and it's time.)  Also, I'm in favor of anything that keeps Clark Gregg on my screen.  (I had no idea he's married to Jennifer Grey, but unlike a lot of couples, they had a decent chemistry on screen.)

At least they finally acknowledged Jackie's age.

And Becky had some great lines tonight:

"You can't eat your feelings until you tell me what they are."

"Nobody wants to die in the missionary position."

"It's the fun of a threesome with the drudgery of a relationship."

["Environmental Science."]
"Ooh, I hope the government brings that back."

Edited by Bastet
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15 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Dan never once mentioned wanting to go to college, even though he wanted it for his kids, but he was rather dismissive or even contemptuous of "those guys"; that conflicting attitude existing in the same guy can exist for a variety of reasons, and is thus one of the rare things that works about this revisionist history of Ed's two families (I don't believe the Dan we saw all those years of the original series wanted to go to college, or that Ed - "work smart, Danny, not hard" - would have denied it to him, no, but I can contort myself to roll with it now). 

Regarding Dan's regret at not going to college, it seems like it's one of those "later in life" types of regrets for him. Things he may have dismissed in the past he's now probably wishing he had done. 

But yeah, the idea that Ed wouldn't help him if he'd wanted to go does seem odd. Him not pushing Dan if he knew he didn't want to go, that would make sense. 

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["Environmental Science."]
"Ooh, I hope the government brings that back."

I loved that line. 

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Ugh. Looks like we are going to be stuck with this stupid story arc of will Darlene have a baby or not. The only reason she has given so far of wanting to have a baby with Ben is that he is the hottest guy she has ever dated. And Ben's is that he wants to have a baby who is just like Little Bev. At the moment, both of Darlene's kids are more mature than either Darlene or Ben. Please writers, make it stop! 

I had no idea that was Jennifer Gray. When she had her nose done way back when,  she lost what made her distinctive and beautiful. She is still pretty, but not unique. 

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1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

Regarding Dan's regret at not going to college, it seems like it's one of those "later in life" types of regrets for him. Things he may have dismissed in the past he's now probably wishing he had done. 

Yes. I believe that Dan is rewriting history in his head because “Dad screwed my life” is easier to live with than “I made bad decisions.”

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9 hours ago, juliet73 said:

I'm not a fan of Dan getting annoyed/mad at Ed Jr because of what their dad didn't/did do.  It's not Ed Jr's fault.

 

But this is pretty much 99% true to life and the way someone whose parent basically threw them to the side and made them a second thought would react to a sibling coming along and getting everything that they never got tho ... yay for the writers somewhat doing their job

Edited by Keywestclubkid
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This show continues to have some huge problems but it makes up for it by genuinely funny moments.   Becky and Jackie were both on fire this episode and Harris was even funny.   I think the show has found a balance for her.  The big problem is finding a story for Darlene.   I like Ben but the baby story just doesn’t work.    It would be far more interesting if he tried to be a father to Mark who might need one.   Dan is great but he is far too.....I don’t know set in his ways to understand a kid like Mark and have a male role model who is straight but comfortable around a gay kid would be a great story.

I don’t know I run into the same problems I ran into with the original.  There is just so much Darlene could do  to get out of poverty.   She isn’t stupid. She apparently has a talent for writing.   Why isn’t she using it?   The show is far too enthralled with The Conners stuck in poverty.   

Edited by Chaos Theory
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10 hours ago, Bastet said:

I would love to see a polyamorous relationship on TV,

S.W.A.T. had a story line with one of the female team members entering into a poly relationship with an engaged couple.  It didn't work out, but it was an interesting story over several episodes.

Yes, if the writers are pushing the will they/won't they have a baby for Darlene and Ben, they need to back it up and just stop.  

2 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

a kid like Mark and have a male role model who is straight but comfortable around a gay kid would be a great story

I agree.

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28 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I like Ben but the baby story just doesn’t work.    It would be far more interesting if he tried to be a father to Mark who might need one.   Dan is great but he is far too.....I don’t know set in his ways to understand a kid like Mark and have a male role model who is straight but comfortable around a gay kid would be a great story.

Yes! The few moments they have shared together have been really nice, so I'd be all for seeing that. And I feel he could be helpful to Harris as well-given the way she and Darlene always butt heads, maybe Ben could make for an interesting balance to that. I could see her opening up to him about things that she may struggle talking to her mom about. 

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Mark listing off all the things that could go wrong with Darlene's pregnancy ending with "...and preeclampsia, I don't know what that is but it comes before ecclampsia!" was hilarious.

I liked Ed Jr. all concerned about the fireworks but once they started going off being really into it.

I don't know if Jackie is cut out for a throuple but that couple treated her way better than most of the single men she's dated. They sent her red roses and everything!

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16 hours ago, UYI said:

This was better than last week, but the utter lack of any mentions of Crystal is still super weird.

I don't mind the idea of a woman having a child later than her older ones in theory (and certainly there are women in their forties who start their families late due to their careers/marrying later--I wouldn't mind more stories like THAT on TV), but I hope Darlene doesn't. 

Regardless of what they've done to Jackie as a character, Laurie still looks FANTASTIC. I thought the color was too dark (and that the boots didn't really go with it, either), but I certainly wouldn't mind trading my turning-31-this-Friday-year-old body with hers, hee!

OMG, a Little Ed flashback! That's from the episode where Roseanne becomes addicted to bingo, which is one of my favorites! (And interestingly, it's the same episode where we find out Crystal is pregnant with Angela.) Seeing Little!DJ there made me realize he wasn't in this episode at all, though. Awkward. 

 

12 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Regarding Dan's regret at not going to college, it seems like it's one of those "later in life" types of regrets for him. Things he may have dismissed in the past he's now probably wishing he had done. 

But yeah, the idea that Ed wouldn't help him if he'd wanted to go does seem odd. Him not pushing Dan if he knew he didn't want to go, that would make sense. 

I loved that line. 

Jackie really has a great figure.

I guess Dan's father is now a raging asshole and not the kindly but absentee father from the original series? Dan was even at his father's second wedding so this seems so bizarre.

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Nice to see real life husband and wife Clark Gregg and Jennifer Grey.

I did not know they were married IRL! Lightbulb. I did recognize Jennifer Grey, though. She's been popping up on TV for awhile now and every time she does we have this same conversation about her.

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 I like Ben but the baby story just doesn’t work.    It would be far more interesting if he tried to be a father to Mark who might need one. 

David's absence is glaring in that regard. Just because he and Darlene broke up doesn't mean he moved away, as far as I know. He should still be seeing his son all the time. This is another one of those things the show just doesn't want to address without knowing whether an actor is available. Speaking of which:

The flashback to baby Ed Jr. just proved that he is indeed Crystal's son. So, where the eff is Crystal, what happened to her marriage to Ed Sr., and if she is still in the Conner's orbit why hasn't he been? This makes zero sense and the only thing I can make out is that maybe Natalie West just isn't available and the show doesn't know how to address it.

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The show is far too enthralled with The Conners stuck in poverty.   

Yeah, I get that the premise here is blue collar, but there's a big difference between showing how hard it is to make it in this economy versus how people make really poor choices that keep them in poverty. I really don't think the show aspires to do the latter but that's what they're doing.

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When Dan was despairing about his father not paying for his college, I flashed back to the scene from the original show where Becky learned her family had no money for her college education and saw her hopes & dreams disappear. 
And, on the continuing train of bad Conner decisions is Darlene & Ben possibly deciding to breed, AND Dan blowing up a perfectly good vehicle instead of driving or selling it.  There are other ways to process anger. He could have used money from the sale of the truck to help Harris with some of her educational costs.

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3 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I really like the kid playing Ed Jr. Has he been in much else?

He played a hideously annoying - and ultimately homicidal - character on L&O: SVU, and that's all I can see when he's on screen.

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14 minutes ago, Bastet said:

He played a hideously annoying - and ultimately homicidal - character on L&O: SVU, and that's all I can see when he's on screen.

“Bing, bang, bong” - Stuckey 

OMG same! I know he plays a pretty popular character from Shameless but all I see is Stuckey. I hated him so much 😆 

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15 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

I only realized it was Jennifer Grey because although she looked vaguely familar, it was her acting with Clark Gregg that gave me the "lightbulb" moment. She's his real life wife.

ha - I didn't know that!  I told my husband "cute, they dated on the Real Adventures of New Christine"  

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23 minutes ago, Bastet said:

He played a hideously annoying - and ultimately homicidal - character on L&O: SVU, and that's all I can see when he's on screen.

I remember him on SVU but I don't recall how his character ended up. Guess it was after I stopped watching regularly. For some reason when I see him I always think of The Riches (with Eddie Izzard and Minnie Driver)...I guess because love Eddie Izzard (the show didn't last long so it's kind of odd that I always associate certain actors with it).

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54 minutes ago, qtpye said:

 

Jackie really has a great figure.

 

I met Laurie in NYC last year after seeing her in "Hilary and Clinton" on Broadway. She's tinier than I thought she'd be and is in phenomenal shape!! Oh, and she was amazing on stage as well. If anyone ever gets the chance to see her on Broadway, I highly recommend it. 

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Just now, Gigglepuff said:

I met Laurie in NYC last year after seeing her in "Hilary and Clinton" on Broadway. She's tinier than I thought she'd be and is in phenomenal shape!! Oh, and she was amazing on stage as well. If anyone ever gets the chance to see her on Broadway, I highly recommend it. 

Her character on Big Bang Theory was always wearing nice dresses, too. She always looked great. 

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1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

I really like the kid playing Ed Jr. Has he been in much else?

I swear that he was on Law & Order: SUV a few times. Not that that's very helpful, as so has everyone on earth.

ETA: Ooops, I was late on the info drop, haha!

Edited by TattleTeeny
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1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

I swear that he was on Law & Order: SUV a few times. Not that that's very helpful, as so has everyone on earth.

ETA: Ooops, I was late on the info drop, haha!

True that. You go to look up just about any actor on IMDB and they have all been in some or all of the Law & Order cadre.

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16 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Oh god, I just looked. He was the insufferable Dale Stuckey. Argh.

I had quit watching by then, but saw his episodes in syndication several years ago when there was nothing else on TV and I felt too miserable to get up and put in a DVD.  Awful.  And I'd never seen him in anything else until now, so I can't shake the association - to the extent it's affecting the Ed Jr. scenes for me.  But I did like his face when he started getting excited by the exploding car.  So hopefully I'll start seeing him as Ed Jr. rather than Stuckey.

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So hopefully I'll start seeing him as Ed Jr. rather than Stuckey.

I've never seen L&O, but he plays one half of a popular gay couple on Shameless on Showtime, as recently as last season. I have a hard time not seeing him as Mickey. 

It's an odd character to add to the cast if he's going to be a regular. I know we've beaten this dead horse into the ground but why not Andy or Jerry Garcia? Why add a character whose history has been a major retcon and/or rewrite of prior episodes? They could do just about anything with Andy or Jerry without contradicting a crap ton of history. Whereas Ed Jr.'s history just doesn't make any sense the way they're portraying it now.

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28 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I had quit watching by then, but saw his episodes in syndication several years ago when there was nothing else on TV and I felt too miserable to get up and put in a DVD.  Awful.  And I'd never seen him in anything else until now, so I can't shake the association - to the extent it's affecting the Ed Jr. scenes for me.  But I did like his face when he started getting excited by the exploding car.  So hopefully I'll start seeing him as Ed Jr. rather than Stuckey.

The tip off was "sushi".

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I actually think the baby discussion is relevant when you're an older single mom dating a guy who doesn't have kids. You don't have much time if you're going to try and you also have to face the facts that some people really want their own biological kids if at all possible.  (I have seen this break up otherwise great couples in my own life.)

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17 minutes ago, tessaray said:

I actually think the baby discussion is relevant when you're an older single mom dating a guy who doesn't have kids. You don't have much time if you're going to try and you also have to face the facts that some people really want their own biological kids if at all possible.  (I have seen this break up otherwise great couples in my own life.)

Maybe so but they've only been together a couple of months and they're not married or even living together. I think it's premature and ultimately pointless.

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5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 

The flashback to baby Ed Jr. just proved that he is indeed Crystal's son. So, where the eff is Crystal, what happened to her marriage to Ed Sr., and if she is still in the Conner's orbit why hasn't he been? This makes zero sense and the only thing I can make out is that maybe Natalie West just isn't available and the show doesn't know how to address it

After Angela was born, I don’t remember seeing Crystal on the show with the exception of the episode where Audrey was sent to the mental hospital and Roseanne’s baby shower. I remember the scene at Darlene’s wedding just before his heart attack where Dan had mentioned that he hadn’t spoken to his father in a few years. My only assumption is that as everyone was busy with their own lives, Roseanne maybe saw Crystal in passing (maybe a girls’ night out) and rarely with the kids in tow. Crystal might  have kept the kids away from Dan to keep the peace with Ed.  Maybe they divorced after the kids were grown and away at college and Crystal and Roseanne/Dan resumed their friendship as empty nesters. 

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23 minutes ago, Stacey1014 said:

After Angela was born, I don’t remember seeing Crystal on the show with the exception of the episode where Audrey was sent to the mental hospital and Roseanne’s baby shower. I remember the scene at Darlene’s wedding just before his heart attack where Dan had mentioned that he hadn’t spoken to his father in a few years. My only assumption is that as everyone was busy with their own lives, Roseanne maybe saw Crystal in passing (maybe a girls’ night out) and rarely with the kids in tow. Crystal might  have kept the kids away from Dan to keep the peace with Ed.  Maybe they divorced after the kids were grown and away at college and Crystal and Roseanne/Dan resumed their friendship as empty nesters. 

Yeah, Natalie West was the only cast member to be added to the opening credits (besides Sarah Chalke, of course), but she was also bumped from them starting in season five (she was there for seasons three and four). There hasn't been much said about what happened, but there were always rumors of a falling out between her and Roseanne, hence why she gradually disappeared from season five onward, and the very reason why I was SHOCKED when she returned for the revival (that and I didn't think she even acted anymore). With Roseanne gone, though, and her first season appearance (s) on The Conners, I doubt that's the reason why she's been absent recently, but who knows? 

Edited by UYI
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My only assumption is that as everyone was busy with their own lives, Roseanne maybe saw Crystal in passing (maybe a girls’ night out) and rarely with the kids in tow. Crystal might  have kept the kids away from Dan to keep the peace with Ed.  Maybe they divorced after the kids were grown and away at college and Crystal and Roseanne/Dan resumed their friendship as empty nesters. 

We shouldn't have to jump through hoops to make sense of this. Your scenario only works if both Crystal AND Ed eventually ghosted the Conners altogether. We know that isn't the case with Crystal. If Dan had been writing letters to his siblings, and they had all been returned marked "no longer at this address," there is no reason why he couldn't go through Crystal to reach her children. I can't think of a plausible scenario where Roseanne or Crystal would allow Ed to keep Dan away from his siblings. 

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