S05.E02: 50% Off

[Bannon]

29 minutes ago, gallimaufry said:

Yes, I think the problem with Mike is there's no external need for him to be a part of Gus's business.  It is contrary to his character on such a deep level to do these things.  And so Kaylee & Stacey are almost Mike's Gretchen & Elliott -- they're a redemption he can't bring himself to embrace.  In Walt's case, he'd lose face; in Mike's case, he knows that either his relationship with his granddaughter will always be a lie or that one day Kaylee will have to live with the fact that Mike broke his own son.

Incidentally, just did a quick skim through and very, very (very) roughly, in episode 1 we had:

Gene - 13 mins
Jimmy and/or Kim - 19 mins
Cartel - 19 mins including only about 6-odd minutes of Mike

In episode 2, excluding the final scene which pulls Saul into the cartel:

Jimmy and/or Kim - 16 mins
Cartel (including teaser) - 21 minutes
Mike - 6 minutes

To be fair, the worlds will obviously overlap from next week.  Still,  while we all knew BCS would intersect with the cartel world, it's strange for 50% of the show to be in that world, near enough as much as Jimmy/Kim/Mike screentime put together in this one.  If this is what hey mean by "speeding up" as we get to the end, it just makes me wish they'd paced it out better.

"Breaking Bad" did a great job of adding characters like Gus, Saul, Mike, Todd and others but keeping the focus primarily on Walt, Jesse, Skylar and to some extent Hank.  I hope it balances out a lot more as the season progresses.

I've always said that Breaking Bad is about the damage inflicted by selfish pride, be it Walt's, Hank's, Skyler's, or even Jesse's, and Better Call Saul is about how grief, absent some healing, inflicts incredible damage. Jimmy's grief over his relationship with Chuck. Mike's with his son. I still suspect that we will see Kim walk away from Jimmy/Saul, and that grief will be unbearable for him.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Bannon
added skyler

[teddysmom]

1 minute ago, Bannon said:

es, I think the problem with Mike is there's no external need for him to be a part of Gus's business.  It is contrary to his character on such a deep level to do these things. 

He does it for the money, to take care of Stacey & Kaylee, and he knows if he bides his time eventually Gus will take out Salamanca.  

[Bannon]

3 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

He does it for the money, to take care of Stacey & Kaylee, and he knows if he bides his time eventually Gus will take out Salamanca.  

Just to be clear, you were responding to Gallimaufry

[sistermagpie]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe Mike was purposely alienating Kaylee because he was afraid just knowing him would kill her like it did his son/her father? If so, this is a set up for Mike not interacting with her anymore —instead supporting her financially only. 

 

4 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

This was better than the premiere but still not up to the standard of the previous seasons for me. I did enjoy the juxtaposition of Jimmy (he will always be Jimmy, just doing business as Saul) living his best life, fast on his feet, schmoozing the courthouse personnel, wheeling and dealing vs. Mike being the worst PopPop ever. I took it to be the combo of having just killed Werner and Kaylee wanting good memories of her dad that pitched him into the darkness, but I hated him for it. It made me wonder if he ever acted like that as a father to his son. If I were Kaylee's mom, that would be the last babysitting gig Mike ever did.

 

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I thought the Mike and Kaylee scene was a good idea, but poorly executed.  I didn't buy MIke going off on her that hard and that fast.  I would have bought it more if he tried to get her to change the subject, but she kept insisting on asking about her father.   

Plus, having killed Werner, he couldn't stand having her talk about him like he was "a good guy." He's not a good guy. In this ep I got the impression he was intentionally trying to break his relationship with them, probably thinking he was too toxic to be near them. That's why he marched out announcing that Kaylee wouldn't come out of her room and didn't eat dinner, suggesting he didn't even try to give her the apology she deserved for yelling at her for no reason at all, from her pov. 

That's also why I buy him going off on her without even trying to change the subject. He didn't fly off the handle, he made a decision to be cruel and stick with it. A bit like the scene in The Bad News Bears where Walter Matthau goes off on Tatum O'Neale.

Though it seems like Kaylee's mom has been pretty reliant on Mike, sometimes seeming pretty entitled about it, so she probably would still want him as a babysitter. Eventually he seems to get to a place where he can accept he's as bad as he is (and not as bad as he is not) and that doesn't have to touch his granddaughter. 

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The idea that criminals would commit extra crimes and get caught because they have a 50% discount on legal fees was absurd.   If you had a 50% off coupon from a doctor, would you intentionally break your leg to get the discount?

 

I think it was less that they were committing more crimes intentionally and more just that they had a general sense of being able to do what they wanted for fun--and being meth heads, this is what two meth heads feeling a little more untouchable than usual looks like.

 

[Bannon]

I'm really curious to see how Howard factors in the story going forward. This has also always been a great partnership between writer and actor, and there are some great potential arcs for Howard to take as BCS rolls to conclusion.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Bannon said:

I do wish the digital de-ageing technology pioneered in Scorcese's The Irishman could be used by Gilligan& Co.. I love Jonathan Banks' work on this show, but it's getting pretty noticeable that he's playing 20 years younger than his age.

I kept thinking the same thing every time they zoomed in on Giancarlo Esposito, Jonathan Banks, and Bob Odenkirk. 
 

At least whoever is playing the ageless Kaylee this season is cute as a bug’s ear. 

Edited February 25, 2020 by shapeshifter

[Bannon]

7 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I kept thinking the same thing every time they zoomed in on Giancarlo Esposito, Jonathan Banks, and Bob Odenkirk. 
 

At least whoever is playing the ageless Kaylee this season is cute as a bug’s ear. 

They can still do a few things with Odenkirk to shave a few years off, but there's just not much that can be done, non digitally, with 73 year old Jonathan Banks, as terrific as he is, to present as a Mike Ehrmantraut in his early to mid 50s. I admire the game attempt, however.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Bannon

[iMonrey]

Quote

What a waste of a perfectly good ice cream cone.

Gilligan loves doing pans. The way the camera panned over to the dropped ice cream cone was identical to another pan from the previous episode. 

I watched these first two episodes back to back last night. I'm more intrigued by present-day Saul than anything else going on, although now that past-Saul has fully embraced doing business as Saul Goodman I'm getting a bit more interested in that. 

I just don't care about any of the drug trade stuff, at all, and I'm struggling to resist fast-forwarding through all those scenes, worried that at some point I'll miss something that overlaps with the other stories. 

That said, I did crack up when the guy said he was fixing the drain pipe and all the crack slid down in front of the cops. It reminded me of the episode where the ATM popped open for Jesse on BB.

[Pike Ludwell]

2 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Gilligan loves doing pans. The way the camera panned over to the dropped ice cream cone was identical to another pan from the previous episode. 

Here's what I read about that from someone in the media who's seen ahead:

Spoiler

There will be a scene soon, after some hours have passed, where they zoom in on that cone and it is crawling with ants.

 

[Ohwell]

11 minutes ago, Pike Ludwell said:

Here's what I read about that from someone in the media who's seen ahead:

  Hide contents

There will be a scene soon, after some hours have passed, where they zoom in on that cone and it is crawling with ants.

 

Yeah, that dropped ice cream cone was there for a "reason."

[Pike Ludwell]

28 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Yeah, that dropped ice cream cone was there for a "reason."

Maybe to show passage of time,

Spoiler

when they reshow it melted and crawling with ants.

 

[gallimaufry]

1 hour ago, teddysmom said:

He does it for the money, to take care of Stacey & Kaylee, and he knows if he bides his time eventually Gus will take out Salamanca.  

Yes but there was never a need for him to pursue Salamanca.  He was, as Gus said (paraphrasing) trying to fix something that cannot be fixed, the death of the Good Samaritan.  There wasn't even a need for him to take Gus's job - Gus only came on heavy to try and bounce him into doing it and Mike saw right through it.  He says he's doing it for the money but the money is the excuse.

As for the ageing actors... Banks I don't mind too much because I can just mentally age him up in BB and age him down in BCS.  Kaylee's age makes no sense - she seems to spend about 7 years as an 8 year old, sometimes looking closer to 10.   Jimmy passes okay.  Gus I don't notice too much but it is a bit of an issue.

But the one that really sticks out is Aaron Paul in "El Camino" (and Todd for that matter).  I really, really hope they don't try to put him into BCS.  He looked very different even from end-of-BB escaped Jesse.  If they try and pass him off as a teenager again, it will be absurd. 

[TVFan17]

I liked the images of the garden gnome on the cement near the beginning of the episode, and the ice cream cone on the cement at the end of the episode.

I almost forgot that Howard was even on the show.  Isn't it interesting how, when this series began, it seemed like Howard was going to be a fully-fleshed out, major character, and now his role is almost bordering on insignificant? 

I really didn't have a problem with this episode or the previous one.  I enjoyed both of them.  As long as they don't linger too long in courthouses and courtrooms, I'm mostly fine with it.  I prefer to see Jimmy/Saul and Kim interacting away from those locations, so it was fun to see them exploring the house for sale. 

I also get a kick out of seeing the other Breaking Bad characters on this show, knowing that we are rapidly closing the gap between Better Call Saul and BB, and approaching the start of the BB timeline (confirmed by Bob Odenkirk & Giancarlo Esposito).  We know that some of these characters who have appeared on BCS will be in totally different locations and situations when Season 1 of BB kicks in (Krazy-8, Tuco, etc.), and then other characters will be in much different situations in later seasons of BB (Hector, Victor, Tyrus, Lydia, Gale, Don Eladio, Juan Bolsa, the Cousins/Brothers, etc.). 

Two pivotal BB/BCS characters we did not see in Season 1 of BB are Mike and Gus.   We did not meet them until Season 2 of BB.  So who knows what Mike and Gus were up to during that whole first BB season?  I kind of wonder if Season 6 of BCS will fast-forward to that specific time frame, so we can see what Mike and Gus were doing as we were focused on Walt and Jesse partnering up.

 

Anyway, I think that Better Call Saul is absolutely masterful at creating suspense and mystery around so many characters whose fates we already know from BB.  We know what the Mike-Gus working relationship is going to be, and yet, every time they are onscreen together and there is tension, I am still wondering if they are going to try to kill each other.

We know where Saul will be on Breaking Bad, but I still always think that he is going to end up getting himself killed on Better Call Saul, when he is dealing with shady people.  And we don't know what will ultimately happen to him as Gene, so there is a great mystery there as well.

Plus, on top of creating suspense about what will happen to the characters whose BB outcomes we already know, they add in totally new characters such as Kim, Nacho and Lalo -- none of whom we ever actually saw in Breaking Bad, and we only heard Nacho and Lalo mentioned fleetingly -- so it is a nail-biter trying to imagine what will happen with all 3 of them before the time BCS bids farewell in Season 6.

Even just seeing that Gus and Victor had their eyes on Nacho's dad was surprising to me, because I always assumed it would only be the Salamancas who threatened his dad and not Gus!  I don't know why I thought that, but I am hoping that Nacho is able to get his dad out of there before a Salamanca OR Gus tries to kill him when they want to punish Nacho for something.

We're a long way from the kinder, simpler days of Squat Cobbler!!

 

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by TVFan17

[ShadowFacts]

17 minutes ago, TVFan17 said:

Even just seeing that Gus and Victor had their eyes on Nacho's dad was surprising to me, because I always assumed it would only be the Salamancas who threatened his dad and not Gus!  I don't know why I thought that, but I am hoping that Nacho is able to get his dad out of there before a Salamanca OR Gus tries to kill him when they want to punish Nacho for something.

Reading this just made me realize that Gus putting the screws to Nacho this way was really unnecessary. He had already killed Arturo in front of him to make him into his "employee" and would not really need to pull another type of scare/threat on him to get him to do what he already got him to do via Arturo's murder. Maybe it was to underscore Gus' ruthlessness or something, but Nacho already got that message.

About the aging actors -- I think the lighting they use, particularly on Gus to make him look menacing, is harsh enough that it would put extra years on just about anyone.

[TVFan17]

12 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Reading this just made me realize that Gus putting the screws to Nacho this way was really unnecessary. He had already killed Arturo in front of him to make him into his "employee" and would not really need to pull another type of scare/threat on him to get him to do what he already got him to do via Arturo's murder. Maybe it was to underscore Gus' ruthlessness or something, but Nacho already got that message.

About the aging actors -- I think the lighting they use, particularly on Gus to make him look menacing, is harsh enough that it would put extra years on just about anyone.

Gus is such an intriguing character.  He's played so effectively by Giancarlo, of course, but he is just written in a very interesting way.   He's not over the top, obnoxious and loud, like Tuco.   He's not completely silent, like the Cousins usually are.  He's not crass or off-color in his way of speaking, like Todd's uncle Jack and his crew were.  He is not annoying like Lalo is.   Gus is a fascinating villain. 

Sometimes Gus almost has me fooled for a minute.  I almost forget how ruthless, unfeeling and violent he can be, because he usually conducts himself in a calm, composed, civil way -- even when forcefully making his point -- and doesn't do anything too extreme until he is pushed to the limit because of shenanigans (such as in the "Box Cutter" episode of BB).  He was downright friendly to Gale on BB!

I always have to remind myself that Gus will kill or order the killing of anyone or anything, at any time, if he feels it is justified.  He will kill kids if he has to.  He will kill wives and parents.  He will kill his own employees.  I have no idea why it never occurred to me that he would threaten Nacho's dad.  Gus seems to scoff at mostly everything the Salamancas do -- he even called the Cousins "animals" when I think Mike told him that they drew a scythe on the ground in front of Walt's house in Breaking Bad -- so I guess I just assumed he would handle things in a different way and not use that "threaten the father" tactic right now, since Hector has already done it.

All this time I was thinking that if Nacho ends up getting killed, it would probably be at the hands of a Salamanca.  It still could be a Salamanca.  But it's also possible that Gus could be responsible for his death too (IF he dies).  I think that right now, it will be a miracle and a shock if Nacho actually survives this series.

[teddysmom]

1 hour ago, gallimaufry said:

Yes but there was never a need for him to pursue Salamanca. 

Mike set up the Salamanca's trucks out in the desert, and left the driver tied up. 

Hector had the good samaritan who helped the driver killed and that's the reason Mike wanted to kill him. Then Gus intervened with the note on the windshield "Don't". 

Edited February 25, 2020 by teddysmom

[Ellaria]

Ugh... the return of Hector Salamanca. One of my least favorite characters in any show ever. I understand that the drug cartel story line is a crucial component of the BCS/BB universe. However - minority opinion here - I’m bored with it. I like Nacho but his plot line is moving along at a snail’s pace. I dread where I think it will end up and part of me wishes it would just hurry up and get there.

Maybe now that Nacho and Jimmy have crossed paths again, I can get a bit more engaged with Gus and the never-ending collection of annoying Salamanca family members.

The slow disintegration of Jimmy and Kim’s relationship is painful to watch but it is made compelling because of BO and RS. They make their roles feel lived-in. Watching Kim process Jimmy’s evolution into Saul is extraordinarily well-done.

I continue to marvel at Jimmy’s ingenuity and wish that he would put it to good use.

I have nothing nice to say about cranky Mike.

[Bryce Lynch]

3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

 

 

Plus, having killed Werner, he couldn't stand having her talk about him like he was "a good guy." He's not a good guy. In this ep I got the impression he was intentionally trying to break his relationship with them, probably thinking he was too toxic to be near them. That's why he marched out announcing that Kaylee wouldn't come out of her room and didn't eat dinner, suggesting he didn't even try to give her the apology she deserved for yelling at her for no reason at all, from her pov. 

That's also why I buy him going off on her without even trying to change the subject. He didn't fly off the handle, he made a decision to be cruel and stick with it. A bit like the scene in The Bad News Bears where Walter Matthau goes off on Tatum O'Neale.

Though it seems like Kaylee's mom has been pretty reliant on Mike, sometimes seeming pretty entitled about it, so she probably would still want him as a babysitter. Eventually he seems to get to a place where he can accept he's as bad as he is (and not as bad as he is not) and that doesn't have to touch his granddaughter. 

I think it was less that they were committing more crimes intentionally and more just that they had a general sense of being able to do what they wanted for fun--and being meth heads, this is what two meth heads feeling a little more untouchable than usual looks like.

 

But, 50% of a criminal lawyer's fees is still more than most meth heads have lying around.  Plus, having a lawyer is not a get out of jail free card.   There is no way a 50% discount from a lawyer would affect anyone's behavior.  The show has started to get a bit silly.  

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Since I was having difficulty fully accepting how Mike turned on a dime, and then refused to offer any warmth to the only thing he actually loved, I began to cogitate about it.  Could it have been that Mike hated hearing Kaylee's enthusiasm for police, which he once experienced from his son?  Perhaps this was his way of stopping her cold from thinking any thoughts of emulating her dad, and/or himself?  Was this not an ultimate act of love in saving her from a bad fate/career/quest?  It's just too weird that he remained stone cold to her for hours thereafter, unless he was delivering a shock to her system - a necessary shock.

I loved the leisurely pacing of the idiots' spree.  I am in no hurry for any of this to end.  I appreciated the reminder of the incredible milieu we saw in BB, and now BCS.  Fools to the left of me, jokers to the right.  And I am stuck in the middle of a surpassing TV experience.

[sistermagpie]

14 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

But, 50% of a criminal lawyer's fees is still more than most meth heads have lying around.  Plus, having a lawyer is not a get out of jail free card.   There is no way a 50% discount from a lawyer would affect anyone's behavior.  The show has started to get a bit silly.  

I can buy it given the people here obviously were just using it as an excuse to do what they've probably done plenty of times before. They hadn't calculated anything, they just took 50% off to be something to celebrate. 

[Bryce Lynch]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Gilligan loves doing pans. The way the camera panned over to the dropped ice cream cone was identical to another pan from the previous episode. 

I watched these first two episodes back to back last night. I'm more intrigued by present-day Saul than anything else going on, although now that past-Saul has fully embraced doing business as Saul Goodman I'm getting a bit more interested in that. 

I just don't care about any of the drug trade stuff, at all, and I'm struggling to resist fast-forwarding through all those scenes, worried that at some point I'll miss something that overlaps with the other stories. 

That said, I did crack up when the guy said he was fixing the drain pipe and all the crack slid down in front of the cops. It reminded me of the episode where the ATM popped open for Jesse on BB.

I think the problem with the drug trade stuff is that I'm not sure who we are supposed to care about.   Nobody is really that sympathetic.  On BB, even if we were  disgusted by some of their behavior, most people cared about Walt and Jesse and wanted them to survive.  

In the Fring vs. the cartel conflict it was easy to root for Fring.   

Earlier in BCS, I was definitely rooting for Fring against the Salamancas, but now I don't care as much.   

I guess I want Nacho to survive, but I don't care about him like I did about Walt and Jesse.  

Now, Jimmy is almost totally unsympathetic as well.   

Edited February 25, 2020 by Bryce Lynch

[Bryce Lynch]

15 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Since I was having difficulty fully accepting how Mike turned on a dime, and then refused to offer any warmth to the only thing he actually loved, I began to cogitate about it.  Could it have been that Mike hated hearing Kaylee's enthusiasm for police, which he once experienced from his son?  Perhaps this was his way of stopping her cold from thinking any thoughts of emulating her dad, and/or himself?  Was this not an ultimate act of love in saving her from a bad fate/career/quest?  It's just too weird that he remained stone cold to her for hours thereafter, unless he was delivering a shock to her system - a necessary shock.

I loved the leisurely pacing of the idiots' spree.  I am in no hurry for any of this to end.  I appreciated the reminder of the incredible milieu we saw in BB, and now BCS.  Fools to the left of me, jokers to the right.  And I am stuck in the middle of a surpassing TV experience.

I don't think Mike was trying to discourage Kaylee from becoming a cop.  I thought he just couldn't handle all the talk about him and his son being good cops.  It wasn't true of Mike and being a good cop got Matt killed by other bad cops.   

I think Mike also realizes he is no longer a good man (if he ever really was).   It makes me think of his talk with Pryce about some criminals being good people and some bad people not being criminals.   I think killing Werner crossed a line for Mike and also made him realize how many other lines he had already crossed.   

 

[gallimaufry]

23 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

Mike set up the Salamanca's trucks out in the desert, and left the driver tied up. 

Hector had the good samaritan who helped the driver killed and that's the reason Mike wanted to kill him. Then Gus intervened with the note on the windshield "Don't". 

Yes but before even that, he had no reason to pursue Hector.  As aggrieved as he felt by the cartel threatening him and his family, he had been paid off and Hector had moved on; the prudent move would have been to leave well enough alone.  He didn't.  Even after his first meeting with Gus, he initially said he was done with Hector and then admitted he wasn't within the same conversation.  Mike was not compelled to get involved by external forces although incidents like the Good Samaritan death obviously add to his guilt.  All the way along, he has deliberately chosen to keep coming back.

[ShadowFacts]

41 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Since I was having difficulty fully accepting how Mike turned on a dime, and then refused to offer any warmth to the only thing he actually loved, I began to cogitate about it.  Could it have been that Mike hated hearing Kaylee's enthusiasm for police, which he once experienced from his son?  Perhaps this was his way of stopping her cold from thinking any thoughts of emulating her dad, and/or himself?  Was this not an ultimate act of love in saving her from a bad fate/career/quest?  It's just too weird that he remained stone cold to her for hours thereafter, unless he was delivering a shock to her system - a necessary shock.

He hates himself, with good reason, I'd hate myself if I did half the things he has. He probably hates lots of cops, with good reason. But I think that he knows better than to think his behavior in that moment would deter his little granddaughter. She may not have even made the connection of what set him off, he screamed about the little job she was doing. If he wants to punish himself, or protect her, by putting distance between them, he chose a shitty way to do it. That child will not forget how that made her feel, and it was so unnecessary. He can just stop being available, make excuses to Stacy going forward, whatever. There were several empties in his house, I'm not sure if he was just hungover or still drunk, but whatever was behind his abusive behavior, he's probably adding layers onto his mantle of self-loathing. I like his character less than ever, and I never liked him much to begin with.

[Snewtsie]

18 hours ago, CarCarHouse said:

Was the Real Estate Agent Windy (Wendy) from Breaking Bad?  

No, it was a different actress.

[Snewtsie]

6 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Plus yeah....Mike and his granddaughter.   She just wanted to know more about her dad and Mike so full of rage guilt..... 

I fixed that for you.

[JudyObscure]

58 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

It's just too weird that he remained stone cold to her for hours thereafter, unless he was delivering a shock to her system - a necessary shock.

Do we know that, though? 

 

I've always liked Mike.  He loves his granddaughter more than anyone in the world and everything he does, he does to get money for her and his daughter-in-law.  He feels responsible for them because he feels responsible for his son's death. Mike has always had a line he wont cross and that has to do with those he considers innocent bystanders.

So suddenly he goes viciously off on this sweet child who he loves.  There must be more to it.  We know he was feeling terrible guilt about having to kill Werner, he feels trapped working for Gus Fring, I think he fears that his family would be hurt if he quit, his granddaughter would not quit talking about her father the good cop who learned everything he knew from Mike, plus he had only had a tiny bit of sleep for his mind and body to process all the horrible stuff that had happened. 

I expect he had tried to apologize and get her to come out of her room the whole time, and by the time he was headed home, he was eaten up with guilt and couldn't talk about it.

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I expect he had tried to apologize and get her to come out of her room the whole time, and by the time he was headed home, he was eaten up with guilt and couldn't talk about it.

I could buy that, but he could summon up the grit to spit out a few words to the mother to explain why her daughter is not coming out of her room. She deserves to know, and she'll have a few terrified moments thanks to his unwillingness to own up to what he did. Even if he had been apologizing and Kaylee maybe said some things herself through the closed door, he owes it to Stacy to act like an adult. I can't give him a pass for being abusive and then not attempting to make the situation better by at least giving a brief explanation.

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Do we know that, though? 

 

I've always liked Mike.  He loves his granddaughter more than anyone in the world and everything he does, he does to get money for her and his daughter-in-law.  He feels responsible for them because he feels responsible for his son's death. Mike has always had a line he wont cross and that has to do with those he considers innocent bystanders.

So suddenly he goes viciously off on this sweet child who he loves.  There must be more to it.  We know he was feeling terrible guilt about having to kill Werner, he feels trapped working for Gus Fring, I think he fears that his family would be hurt if he quit, his granddaughter would not quit talking about her father the good cop who learned everything he knew from Mike, plus he had only had a tiny bit of sleep for his mind and body to process all the horrible stuff that had happened. 

I expect he had tried to apologize and get her to come out of her room the whole time, and by the time he was headed home, he was eaten up with guilt and couldn't talk about it.

Although I can easily believe, as I said above, that he was making a decision to repulse Kaylee and Stacy "for their own good" I can also believe that in that moment he hated Kaylee and that's what he was really acting out of. Just listening to her talk like that made him angry at her as well as himself and he didn't care what they thought of them.

We're used to seeing Mike seem logical and deliberate but he's just as emotional as everybody else.

[Dev F]

17 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Although I can easily believe, as I said above, that he was making a decision to repulse Kaylee and Stacy "for their own good" I can also believe that in that moment he hated Kaylee and that's what he was really acting out of. Just listening to her talk like that made him angry at her as well as himself and he didn't care what they thought of them.

Yep, which also probably reflects his complicated feelings about the underlying incident that provoked his outburst: there's a part of him that feels like the world's biggest monster for murdering Werner, but probably also a part of him that hates Werner for being such a heedless sap and defying Gus so egregiously that Mike had no choice but to murder him.

[sistermagpie]

47 minutes ago, Dev F said:

Yep, which also probably reflects his complicated feelings about the underlying incident that provoked his outburst: there's a part of him that feels like the world's biggest monster for murdering Werner, but probably also a part of him that hates Werner for being such a heedless sap and defying Gus so egregiously that Mike had no choice but to murder him.

I can really relate to Mike on that one. I felt the same way!

[chick binewski]

I think we saw the intro to Mike's purposeful alienation during last season's "Talk" episode. While he wasn't wrong blasting the fake widower, he blew up the room and any chance with Dr. Warner intentionally. This incident was also triggered by someone (Stacey) bringing up his son. Matty is Mike's Chuck/Grey Matter, a much deeper hole to live in imo. 

Am I the only one who thought that hideous house was something case-related for Saul that he did not disclose to Kim? 

[MrWhyt]

7 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

But, 50% of a criminal lawyer's fees is still more than most meth heads have lying around.  Plus, having a lawyer is not a get out of jail free card.   There is no way a 50% discount from a lawyer would affect anyone's behavior.  The show has started to get a bit silly.  

why would a couple of meth heads be expected to act rationally?

[Bryce Lynch]

5 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

why would a couple of meth heads be expected to act rationally?

I would expect them to behave like people who want to be able to use meth.  If they get arrested for numerous, non-meth related charges, they will go to jail for at least some period of time, where they won't be able to use meth.  Even at a 50% discount, they would br forced to spend a large sum of money, that could otherwise be used on meth, on legal fees.

I don't expect them to behave "rationally" in the way that normal people do.  But, I would expect them to not make intentional choices that would mean less access to meth.

 

 

[DrSpaceman73]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 10:24 PM, Sharper2002 said:

Mike yelling at Kaylee hurt my feelings through the screen. 😢

 

Out of all the horrible things we have seen on this show and Breaking Bad, that somehow was one of the saddest and most heartbreaking moments. 

[Clanstarling]

On 2/24/2020 at 7:19 PM, CarCarHouse said:

Was the Real Estate Agent Windy (Wendy) from Breaking Bad?  

That's what I was thinking, but I haven't had time to look it up on IMDB.

[teddysmom]

1 hour ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Out of all the horrible things we have seen on this show and Breaking Bad, that somehow was one of the saddest and most heartbreaking moments. 

Take solace in the fact that we do know in the future Mike & Kaylee make up, and he is a good grandfather, as portrayed in Breaking Bad.

 

[nodorothyparker]

I'm not terribly bothered by a couple of tweakers being dumb enough to go on a binge and treat Saul's silly 50% off offer like a get out of jail free card.  People do dumb or shortsighted things you wouldn't expect all the time, even if they're not all hopped up on meth.  This very possibility came up in the previous episode when Jimmy first pitched the idea to Kim, but it was dismissed as being too unlikely to worry about, which makes me think Gilligan and crew thought they were being ironically funny.

Mike yelling at Kaylee was hard to watch, knowing that he's done all this, to varying degrees, to try to provide for her and make up for what he clearly deeply feels is his own culpability in his son's death that left her without a father.  Pile on killing Werner, who he'd obviously liked, and being called on it with his continued self loathing and it's a wonder he hasn't blown before now.

[Wouldofshouldof]

19 hours ago, TVFan17 said:

Sometimes Gus almost has me fooled for a minute.  I almost forget how ruthless, unfeeling and violent he can be, because he usually conducts himself in a calm, composed, civil way -- even when forcefully making his point -- and doesn't do anything too extreme until he is pushed to the limit because of shenanigans (such as in the "Box Cutter" episode of BB).  He was downright friendly to Gale on BB!

My son attended a Comic Con one year while BB was still on. He got a pic with G.E., posed behind my son and holding a box cutter to his throat (sans blade). It's an awesome pic.

Is Crazy 8 the guy Walt and Jesse had tied up in the basement?

 

[DangerousMinds]

13 minutes ago, Wouldofshouldof said:

My son attended a Comic Con one year while BB was still on. He got a pic with G.E., posed behind my son and holding a box cutter to his throat (sans blade). It's an awesome pic.

Is Crazy 8 the guy Walt and Jesse had tied up in the basement?

 

Yep

[peeayebee]

14 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I could buy that, but he could summon up the grit to spit out a few words to the mother to explain why her daughter is not coming out of her room. She deserves to know, and she'll have a few terrified moments thanks to his unwillingness to own up to what he did. Even if he had been apologizing and Kaylee maybe said some things herself through the closed door, he owes it to Stacy to act like an adult.

I think it comes down to his self-loathing. He hates himself so much first for what happened to Mattie and then to Werner and now to Kaylee, that he doesn't want to talk to anyone about what he's feeling. He's ashamed for how to behaved toward Kaylee and can't face Stacy and tell her. I don't know how he's going to react when Stacy confronts him about it, but he's going to make up for it without words (by helping Stacy, spending time with Kaylee, and piling up as much money as he can for her). He's going to push this guilt down deep so he doesn't hurt him or anyone else anymore.

9 minutes ago, Wouldofshouldof said:

My son attended a Comic Con one year while BB was still on. He got a pic with G.E., posed behind my son and holding a box cutter to his throat (sans blade). It's an awesome pic.

Wow. That IS awesome! 😃

[JudyObscure]

2 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I think it comes down to his self-loathing. He hates himself so much first for what happened to Mattie and then to Werner and now to Kaylee, that he doesn't want to talk to anyone about what he's feeling. He's ashamed for how to behaved toward Kaylee and can't face Stacy and tell her.

I agree and I also think he might have been afraid  to talk to Stacy right then without blaming her in some part.  Not that she was at fault at all, but that's what people do when they're angry at themselves -- try to share the blame.  He might have said something like; if Stacy was a little more organized, maybe she wouldn't be calling him up to babysit with zero notice and no sleep,  if Stacy had ever once thought to explain to Kaylee that it upsets Grandpa to talk about his son, maybe this wouldn't have happened. It's probably what I would have said.

[teddysmom]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

This very possibility came up in the previous episode when Jimmy first pitched the idea to Kim, but it was dismissed as being too unlikely to worry about, which makes me think Gilligan and crew thought they were being ironically funny.

In S4 when Jimmy was trying to get enough support for his appeal, he suggested setting a judge's chamber on fire and then rushing in to save her.  So yeah Gilligan & Co love to throw out crazy stuff. 

As I watched the meth heads, I just kept saying "what is wrong with them" and then answering myself "meth". 

[Bannon]

Thinking of the scene with Howard again, it was interesting that he told Jimmy that HHM was having its best year ever. Does this mean that Howard took to heart Jimmy's undiplomatic, unfiltered, advice, that Howard needed get off his self-pitying ass, and go out and sell something, which is where Howard's true talents lie? Will Howard thus have his respect for Jimmy's talents grow further (and Howard, unlike Chuck, already had considerable respect for Jimmy's talents)? Will Howard thus seek to work with Jimmy in some capacity, maybe as an outside law firm charged with bringing class action or other potentially large revenue streams to HHM? Saul, of course, would turn this down, in favor of the buzz of being a "criminal" lawyer. Kim will be appalled at that choice.

To have Jimmy scorn the opportunity for a lucrative, normal, career in law, while having a relationship with Kim, because the appeal of being Saul Goodman, one lawyer shop to the skells, is too strong, would be a great callback (callfoward?) to Walt's decsion to turn down a lucrative job, with great health insurance benefits, from Elliott and Gretchen, because it was too appealing to be Heisenberg.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Bannon

[Bannon]

I'm also thinking of the elevator scene again, and what a damning, although no doubt exaggerrated, commentary on the practice of criminal law it is. The accused, guilty and innocent, and the victims, current and future, are just ground meat, and the lawyers and judges are just on the assembly line, stuffing the meat into the sausage casings, which are the guilty pleas.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Bannon

[Joimiaroxeu]

Nacho FTW! Parkour!

Nobody can say Saul doesn't work hard for the money. The guy takes schmoozing to the next level.

Of course Saul arranged for the elevator break down. He's like a scheming savant.

[Evagirl]

Unfortunately, I have fallen out of love with BCS.  I'm just going to read the recaps the day following the show to stay of top of things.  I didn't even finish either show because I was just bored.

The dynamics between Jimmy, his brother, the big law firms etc. was what kept me interested season after season.  I know the show is taking viewers down the path of how Jimmy became Saul Goodman, but this particular path doesn't interest me at all.  

From reading the posts I'm in a minority.  Most viewers really like this direction and that's fine.

[thuganomics85]

Out of all of the brutal stuff that has happened on this show (and Breaking Bad), Mike yelling at Kaylee and likely pushing her and Stacey away for good was one of the hardest to watch.  Definitely think it has come from a place of guilt over his past actions and maybe even wanting to protect them from what he has gotten himself into, but they'll obviously never know that and will likely never know that he truly did love them.  But then again, almost all of his problems were due to his decisions and choices, and the blame is all on him.  But Jonathan Banks continues to shine and still make me care for him.

After my complaint last episode about the lack of Nacho, I'm glad he was front and center here, even if it is due to him being caught in the middle of the games between Gus and Lalo.  The parkour stuff was a bit far-fetched, but I was glad to see him get some kind of victory and start developing a bond with Lalo: even it's only for self-preservation for himself and his father.  I do hope he somehow comes out ahead.  Michael Mando is fantastic here.

Cool seeing the "origin" of how Krazy-8 got his name and what looks like the beginning of him getting to the point he was at on Breaking Bad.  It must be fun for the actors like him and Tyrus; who only appeared a few episodes on the previous shows; to suddenly get some callbacks to come here, despite their characters' "sudden" exists.

That was a nice house that Jimmy and Kim were looking at.  Wonder if that was a real one or if the insides were all sets?  Confused over why they focused on the realtor at the end.  Was she shown before?  Setting her up to play a bigger part down the line?  Or just showing her frustration that Jimmy and Kim probably weren't serious about buying it (yet?)

Watching Jimmy and the DA wheeling and dealing all of their cases was impressive, but really shows how messed up the legal system can be.  Even though it is likely Jimmy really did get his clients good deals (especially considering how idiotic a lot of them apparently were), seeing how overloaded they both were (even if Jimmy brought a lot of it on himself), and how casual their negotiations were over the fates of actual people, just felt icky in a way that is hard to explain.

Gus' threat to Nacho was chilling enough, but then I remembered he was also the same guy who straight-up told Walt he would "kill his infant daughter", so, really, this was Gus set on a 6 or 7, on his stone-cold scale!

Hector is back and already loving his bell.  DING!!

First glimpse of Howard!  I wonder what is in store for him. 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I loved seeing Howard, however briefly, and was happily surprised to hear him being so open to establishing a professional relationship.  Which takes me to... 

A way for Kim's story arc to come to a satisfying conclusion:  Back with Howard as an equity partner.  He genuinely respected her lawyering.  He sure seemed to like her as a person, too.   With this predicate, I would buy it.

[teddysmom]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

agree and I also think he might have been afraid  to talk to Stacy right then without blaming her in some part.  Not that she was at fault at all, but that's what people do when they're angry at themselves -- try to share the blame.  He might have said something like; if Stacy was a little more organized, maybe she wouldn't be calling him up to babysit with zero notice and no sleep,  if Stacy had ever once thought to explain to Kaylee that it upsets Grandpa to talk about his son, maybe this wouldn't have happened. It's probably what I would have said.

Stacy might need to realize that if Grandpa wasn't in Albuquerque she'd have to tell work "I can't come in today". 

Or, she could have said "I can come in later, my babysitter isn't available and I need to make sure my FiL can help". 

She takes advantage of Mike a lot, and he won't say no to her. Remember how she freaked out that her house was being shot at, (when it wasn't) and he found her a new home.