Cheer - General Discussion

[tanyak]

On 1/17/2022 at 11:24 PM, dmmetler said:

In UCA, which is the other college cheer competition (and where the bare midriffs and more all star flash wouldn't fly), JC's are in the"open" division with Smaller 4 year schools. There's more competition there. Northern MS CC would be the current Champion in the equivalent division (Open Coed Traditional). Open schools, both 2 and 4 year, tend to get a lot of tall girls and short boys-IE, the kids who don't meet the body types that the schools that cheer in D1 and D1a do. 

UCA doesn't have an equivalent rivalry to Navarro/TVCC in the Open division, but the past series Cheerleader U focused on some of the top DI teams, like Kentucky and UCF. 

Thank you for this. Someone posted the schedule from last year‘s competition above, and as I scanned it, I noticed there weren’t really a lot of the top D1 schools on it. Kentucky in particular came to mind because I remember they are a perennial power. 
 

In the first episode of season two, someone from Navarro mentioned that TVCC used to have more of a collegiate style. If that’s the case, I wonder why they never tried to compete in the UCA open division? 
 

And just a random observation: I was all in on the first season. But I had totally forgotten just how big the cast and “Mat TIme!!” were in the weeks leading up to the pandemic. I also agree that while I think Jerry was naturally exuberant, he was really amping it up as his star rose. It was pretty cringe to watch a lot of those video clips.

Lastly, i’m all for a good motivational speech, but Jada in particular loved to talk. I honestly think that if I was already nervous, I would’ve tuned her out about halfway through. Brevity has its place. Lol

Edited January 19, 2022 by tanyak

[TrixieTrue]

I read on another site that after the second round, Maddy cursed out Gill for falling. I don't know if it's true, but if so, the editors really gave her a gift by not showing it. 

[Starlight925]

Watched both seasons.

I don't get it.

I don't get the hype over this school, or its program, or Monica.

I've traveled the highway that runs right between Corsicana & Athens hundreds of times, literally maybe a thousand in my life, as recently as last week.  I've lived in both major cities that this highway connects for my entire life.  I got my degree from the same school Monica did.  Until "Cheer", I had never heard of either of these programs.

Corsicana has always been a "pull over & pee" stop.  The Collin Street Bakery has always been famous for its fruitcakes, which I've always hated.  BTW, there was a $17 million embezzlement by a CPA at that bakery.  Will Ferrell was scheduled to play the CPA in the movie, which was sidelined by the pandemic, so it's being released soon with different actors under the name "Fruitcake Fraud". 

After Season 1, I stopped in Corsicana and drove through the Navarro campus.  

I walked through the campus, saw their practice gym, drove through the town, and got a few bakery items at the Collin Street Bakery (they do have good items other than fruitcake).  The lady there was super nice, and I asked if they were getting thousands of visitors who, like me, stopped through Corsicana due to the show.  She said, and I quote...."What show?"  They literally had no idea of the cheerleading program, or "Cheer", that was going on right down the street.

She pulled over another lady at the bakery, who said she had heard of the show on Netflix, but had no idea of the cheer program, and then turned back to what she was doing.  These ladies were the ones who filled me in on their prior $17 million heist, and to watch out for their movie.  But "Cheer"?  Never heard of it.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Starlight925

[SourK]

On 1/17/2022 at 7:09 PM, DearEvette said:

THE WEENIES: Two levels going on here with what I feel is an important conversation.  ... their inclusion here is important conversation about masculinity and cheer that was completely absent last season with the Navarro (primarily black) male cheerleaders that were heavily featured being flamboyant. Cheer has never, ever been coded as a masculine endeavor and it is understandable they have internalized that long held (and honestly still held) belief.  And having Netflix cheer showcasing Ladarius and Jerry so prominently was entrenching that belief even more.   But this season having Vontae as a coach and modeling that it is ok to perform and still be coded as masculine is an important part of their development and perception of the sport. 

I agree. In general, I'd like it if cheer allowed for a wider range of gender expression than being super feminine (as either a male or female or nonbinary athlete). What I liked about this story line is that it basically resolves with Dee finding his own way to look excited at the end of his act, without compromising his whole sense of self and acting like someone he's not.

On 1/17/2022 at 7:09 PM, DearEvette said:

Meanwhile we have Monica.  Her explanation vs Khris’ analysis was very telling.  She very simplistically looked at the raw score and called it ‘confusing’ … I don’t know if she was just doing it for the cameras and didn’t want to get into it or if she was just a bad communicator or if it was how Netflix decided to present it, but as a viewer it felt like she wasn’t as knowledgeable about the numbers and data and scoring he was. 

The way I interpreted that sequence was that Khris was surprised by the score, because he expected them to lose more for the pyramid, but then they didn't, and that's the basis for why he told his team the judges "wanted" them to win. I think Monica ALSO expected them to lose more points for the pyramid, and that's why it was "confusing."

On 1/17/2022 at 7:45 PM, RachelKM said:

In retrospect, you had the more prescient response not just because he was in fact a predator; but because, even now, if Monica's description of his letter to her is accurate, he continues to be maniacally optimistic in a disturbing way.

The letter was disquieting. The whole situation was, obviously, but the fact that his main thought was apparently, "I can turn this into a speaking opportunity," was disturbing.

On 1/17/2022 at 7:45 PM, RachelKM said:

What bothered me was that Monica didn't actually address Maddy's complaint. Instead she told Maddy not to question her decisions for the team.  Maddy hadn't done that. She only objected to the manner and timing of delivery; which, as you say, is Monica's style but that was not necessarily known to Maddy as a rookie. Even if she had witnessed it a handful of times it may not have really registered. 

I don't necessarily think that Monica had to change (though if she had made the decision before practice, a quick aside to Maddy that they were changing her role would have been appropriate), but her ignoring the issue altogether and pretending that Maddy was questioning her decisions about the routine was obnoxious. And I have a lot more sympathy and room for the 18 year old in that exchange than the 40/50 year old woman.

I agree. Also, if there wasn't time to be polite, look how much time it took to be rude! They spent ages talking about it, when they could have avoided that by stepping into the hall for five minutes while people were having water.

On top of even that, if we imagine that they had to change it in the moment, with no time for discussion, then the way you do that is by saying, "Guys, I don't think the pyramid's getting better, and I want to try putting so-and-so in instead, so we can  see how that goes." You don't whisper to all of your assistant coaches that you're switching the positions and then just have somebody realize what happened when they get told to move.

[bilgistic]

8 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

Watched both seasons.

I don't get it.

I don't get the hype over this school, or its program, or Monica.

I've traveled the highway that runs right between Corsicana & Athens hundreds of times, literally maybe a thousand in my life, as recently as last week.  I've lived in both major cities that this highway connects for my entire life.  I got my degree from the same school Monica did.  Until "Cheer", I had never heard of either of these programs.

Corsicana has always been a "pull over & pee" stop.  The Collin Street Bakery has always been famous for its fruitcakes, which I've always hated.  BTW, there was a $17 million embezzlement by a CPA at that bakery.  Will Ferrell was scheduled to play the CPA in the movie, which was sidelined by the pandemic, so it's being released soon with different actors under the name "Fruitcake Fraud". 

After Season 1, I stopped in Corsicana and drove through the Navarro campus.  

I walked through the campus, saw their practice gym, drove through the town, and got a few bakery items at the Collin Street Bakery (they do have good items other than fruitcake).  The lady there was super nice, and I asked if they were getting thousands of visitors who, like me, stopped through Corsicana due to the show.  She said, and I quote...."What show?"  They literally had no idea of the cheerleading program, or "Cheer", that was going on right down the street.

She pulled over another lady at the bakery, who said she had heard of the show on Netflix, but had no idea of the cheer program, and then turned back to what she was doing.  These ladies were the ones who filled me in on their prior $17 million heist, and to watch out for their movie.  But "Cheer"?  Never heard of it.

The documentary Fruitcake Fraud was recently released, but I don't know the streaming platform. I only know about it because Tig Notaro and Cheryl Hines dissected it on their podcast, "Tig & Cheryl: True Story".

[bilgistic]

18 hours ago, tanyak said:

Lastly, i’m all for a good motivational speech, but Jada in particular loved to talk. I honestly think that if I was already nervous, I would’ve tuned her out about halfway through. Brevity has its place. Lol

Jada got on my nerves. We get it, you're a senior member of the team. You know things.

The guy that looks like Machine Gun Kelly took every single opportunity to lead the team in chants.

[qtpye]

14 hours ago, TrixieTrue said:

I read on another site that after the second round, Maddy cursed out Gill for falling. I don't know if it's true, but if so, the editors really gave her a gift by not showing it. 

You just made me realize that Gill fell on what was Maddy’s original spot for the pyramid.

I am an idiot for not putting that together.

That being said, Gill was already beating herself up horribly about the fall. There was no reason for anyone else to berate her.

[RachelKM]

3 minutes ago, qtpye said:

You just made me realize that Gill fell on what was Maddy’s original spot for the pyramid.

I am an idiot for not putting that together.

That being said, Gill was already beating herself up horribly about the fall. There was no reason for anyone else to berate her.

I'm actually glad that they didn't play up any outbursts by these kids against one another and instead focused on Gill being comforted by her bestie.  Maddy and Gill are barely more than Children. 

At that time, they were both 19.  And while I agree that it was not well done of Maddy to cuss out Gill for the fall, especially since she was obviously beating herself up over it already, showing the confrontation would have only led to more hurt and embarrassment for both girls.

For Maddy, obviously it would make her look like an asshole for cussing out an already upset Gill. And to the extent that she may have regretted it later, having to watch herself behaving badly is not fun and this is about the cheer program not "The Real Pre-Housewives of Cheerleading."

And for Gill, it would be more time and focus spent in the show on something she was already upset with herself for coupled with being berated which can be humiliating to have witnesses by a room of people let alone a million living rooms of people. 

[bilgistic]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

You just made me realize that Gill fell on what was Maddy’s original spot for the pyramid.

I am an idiot for not putting that together.

I didn't grasp that until I just read your post.

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

You just made me realize that Gill fell on what was Maddy’s original spot for the pyramid.

I'm confused.  Did Maddy lose positioning in the second year as well?  Because we saw her lose her spot during the training for Daytona 2020 but then that was canceled.  Maddy came back and it was a new routine and, apparently, a new attitude. I thought she was more featured in her second year. 

16 hours ago, TrixieTrue said:

I read on another site that after the second round, Maddy cursed out Gill for falling. I don't know if it's true, but if so, the editors really gave her a gift by not showing it. 

That's from LaDarius's Instagram Live during which he said A LOT.  Some of it, like this, is easy to believe.  Some of it though....

 

[IntrovertRed]

2 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I only know about it because Tig Notaro and Cheryl Hines dissected it on their podcast, "Tig & Cheryl: True Story".

That seems like such a random pairing for a podcast. I must check it out.

11 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm confused.  Did Maddy lose positioning in the second year as well?  Because we saw her lose her spot during the training for Daytona 2020 but then that was canceled.  Maddy came back and it was a new routine and, apparently, a new attitude. I thought she was more featured in her second year. 

16 hours ago, TrixieTrue said:

I thought she was pulled from a part in the 2021 routine, not 2020.  She was still a rookie in 2020. 

[methodwriter85]

3 hours ago, bilgistic said:

The guy that looks like Machine Gun Kelly took every single opportunity to lead the team in chants.

I looked him up- his name is Cole Knapp. He's apparently transferred to Sam Houston State University- good for him? It was kind of funny how deadly serious he was about those chants. Cute guy, but man. It made me imagine some kind of Outsiders-style rumble happening among these teams at some point. LOL.

For all of Monica's faults, she doesn't seem to let the Navarro College cheerleaders ever disparage Trinity Valley. Then again, I'm pretty sure the TV cheerleaders were playing up the rivalry for T.V. 

It kind of makes me wish we could get some campy parody movie about this,  but that kind of stuff is almost impossible to do- you can't fake that level of cheerleading.

[bilgistic]

1 hour ago, KLJ said:

That seems like such a random pairing for a podcast. I must check it out.

They are so funny! I resisted podcasts until last year, and theirs was my introduction to the medium. I love Tig Notaro so much! She and Cheryl have been friends for several years, and they crack each other up.

Back on topic!

[tanyak]

Maddy was moved from her position in the 2020 routine. I remember because they spent a lot of time showing us how the 2020 routines came together for both teams – choreographers, who made mat, etc. 

That was one of my gripes about the second half of the season. I thought they kind of rushed through the development of the 2021 routines. I was curious if they kept elements of the 2020 routines since they hadn’t been performed. I was also curious what happened to the choreographer who had originally worked with Navarro but moved over to TVCC. I don’t remember him being shown at all in 2021, and they brought in that other guy who made some changes.

[GaT]

Finally finished season 2, & I have to say, I didn't enjoy it as much as season 1. There was this feeling of desperation this season that wasn't there before. I don't know if it was because of covid, or because of Jerry, or because of La’Darius (who strikes me as being ridiculously bitter), or a combination of all of it, but it just wasn't the same 

Why did they have a virtual score reading? They didn't have a virtual competition.

Does anybody know how uniforms get ordered? I was just curious because it looked like Monica just handed out the uniforms without caring about what size anybody was, are all the uniforms the same size?

[rlc]

8 hours ago, GaT said:

Why did they have a virtual score reading? They didn't have a virtual competition.

I can speak to how they handled it for dance competitions during the worst of COVID. Typically, they mix the schedule with different studios and categories into 2-3 sessions per day, with all the kids who competed on stage at the end of each session for awards. Last year, we had block scheduling by studio, an all awards were done virtually a couple of days after the competitions, with everything announced at once. The rational was that they figured that people from the same team could intermingle, but that it was safer to keep the teams separate. 

[dmmetler]

Last season a lot of competitions did awards virtually, and only allowed people from that one Program in for the performance (and some were virtual or hybrid). Most venues had capacity limits. 

 

While it didn't affect Navarro/TVCC, a lot of schools also didn't compete in 2021-many schools were all or mostly virtual for fall, and putting together a routine in Spring only would be hard, and some colleges didn't have sports at all last year, or had only NCAA sports. 

[Whimsy]

18 hours ago, GaT said:

 

Does anybody know how uniforms get ordered? I was just curious because it looked like Monica just handed out the uniforms without caring about what size anybody was, are all the uniforms the same size?

Yes. They get ordered from a company and they can make alterations to colors, etc.  the athletes pick their sizes based on their normal clothing sizes, they are not all the same size. I am sure she passed or correct sizes but they edited it weird?  The athletes then try them on and let the coaches know if they don’t fit. 

[GaT]

15 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

Yes. They get ordered from a company and they can make alterations to colors, etc.  the athletes pick their sizes based on their normal clothing sizes, they are not all the same size. I am sure she passed or correct sizes but they edited it weird?  The athletes then try them on and let the coaches know if they don’t fit. 

Thanks, do you know what they do with the old uniforms? They showed Monica packing them away in tubs (hopefully after being cleaned), do the next year's cheerleaders wear them? How do the new people get the correct size?

[Whimsy]

15 minutes ago, GaT said:

Thanks, do you know what they do with the old uniforms? They showed Monica packing them away in tubs (hopefully after being cleaned), do the next year's cheerleaders wear them? How do the new people get the correct size?

I guess it’s probably different for a college team than all-stars because the parents pay for the all-star uniforms (and they ain’t cheap!). If the same uniform is used the following year and your child has grown, you can sell it to a smaller child to help pay the cost of a new one. Gyms like new uniforms, though. 

[irisheyes]

21 hours ago, GaT said:

Why did they have a virtual score reading? They didn't have a virtual competition.

My daughter does all-star cheer, and that was the way all of her competitions were. In person competing (with just parents allowed to watch) and virtual awards. Obviously, this was in Florida, which by April of 2021 has virtually done away with any Covid mandates, so you saw tons of fans packed in close but Varsity chose how to do awards. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by irisheyes

[methodwriter85]

Morgan has a line at CVS Beauty that she's plugging: 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CY7fGkVovrN/

I'm really happy for her. She's definitely got a good commercial appeal to her. I hope she's smart with her endorsement money.

Here's an article on Morgan by Shape Magazine.

Edited January 21, 2022 by methodwriter85

[GaT]

Apparently the producers wanted TVCC to be a bigger part of the show season 1, but they declined.

https://www.vulture.com/amp/article/cheer-season-2-tvcc-coaches-vontae-johnson-khris-franklin-interview.html

Quote

Is it true that TVCC was asked to be a bigger part of Cheer’s first season and declined?
Johnson: We were reached out to by the production to be in season one, but we were just so focused on our championship and trying to get to our safe zone and to compete and have fun. We ultimately decided that it was something that we didn’t want to do at the time. We just wanted to focus on our goals.

 

[Starlight925]

The more I see of Vontae, the more respect I have for him.

Coming from such a difficult background, moving from traditionally male sports to cheerleading, and doing such an excellent job, makes me respect him so much.

I also like his coaching style.  He's tough, he doesn't sugarcoat, and he doesn't seem to cross the lines of coach to personal life.  

I think that's where Monica has her weakness:  when so many team members view her as "second mom", and when "mom" cuts you from mat, turning her eyes in another direction once the new class of rookies arrives, it opens up those deep childhood wounds once again.  It's that giant hole they thought was finally filled, but gets opened up again, feeling abandoned once again, as it turns out, Monica only "loves" her championship trophies.

Vontae came in with those childhood wounds.  He's not looking at cheer to fill them.  He's looking for a way to build excellence in himself, and in his team, by focusing on their strengths as individuals, and forming them into a true team.  

[TeeVeeWatcher]

3 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

The more I see of Vontae, the more respect I have for him.

Me too. I liked that they had practice uniforms and always looked sharp. However, I was surprised that he was in a tank top and shorts on the first day of the competition. Why not a golf shirt at least - he seems like a guy who cares about his appearance. Why not at the big competition? Maybe he spilled his coffee on it??

Likewise it bugs me that Monica is always at practice in skinny jeans and spike heals, like she was on her way to the bar for happy hour, not at practice.

[CailynA]

On 1/19/2022 at 9:16 PM, methodwriter85 said:

For all of Monica's faults, she doesn't seem to let the Navarro College cheerleaders ever disparage Trinity Valley. Then again, I'm pretty sure the TV cheerleaders were playing up the rivalry for T.V. 

I get the feeling she just doesn't think they're worth worrying about honestly bc she's convinced Navarro is the best ever. Then again it could all be reality tv editing, it's quite possible the NC kids did say stuff about TVCC but it was cut bc it didn't fit the storyline

On 1/19/2022 at 10:17 PM, tanyak said:

Maddy was moved from her position in the 2020 routine. I remember because they spent a lot of time showing us how the 2020 routines came together for both teams – choreographers, who made mat, etc. 

That was one of my gripes about the second half of the season. I thought they kind of rushed through the development of the 2021 routines. I was curious if they kept elements of the 2020 routines since they hadn’t been performed. I was also curious what happened to the choreographer who had originally worked with Navarro but moved over to TVCC. I don’t remember him being shown at all in 2021, and they brought in that other guy who made some changes.

I haven't finished the season yet. I had to take a break after watching Jerry and LaDarius's IG lives. It was just a lot, but I have watched the 2021 routines on youtube and they seem very similar to the bits we saw of the 2020 routines. I'd guess since they never performed them and the show didn't air until after 2021 that they were basically the same routine with small changes, which might also be why they'd show so little prep.

 

I like Vontae, he's not perfect, but I like his style. He does yell but then he talks to his athletes one on one to make sure they understand why he was upset. He seems more respectful of them. He nearly turned me off with the cheering/jeering after the basketball game but I chalk that up to him still being fairly young himself. What we saw doesn't seem to show him playing favorites like Monica appears to (again all taken with a grain of reality show salt).  

I really liked that when they were short on male cheerleaders during the 2020 practices he went in and took the place and performed the routine. I've always preferred coaches who can demonstrate and not just yell. I'm sure Monica could at one point but age gets us all. I wonder if that's one reason she typically has younger assistant coaches. That's part of what immediately turned me off about Kailee. She could have demonstrated as LaDarius wanted to do (yes he overstepped but I really think he was suffering from some separation anxiety/abandonment issues on top of the betrayal of finding out about Jerry, so damn many of those kids need counseling in a major way) She stood back in her fake tan, Kardashian look and just wasn't a good coach.

 

Ok  now I actually need to finish the season lol

[SparedTurkey]

On 1/20/2022 at 12:39 PM, Irlandesa said:

That's from LaDarius's Instagram Live during which he said A LOT.  Some of it, like this, is easy to believe.  Some of it though....

I saw a lot of it and I have seen the backlash about Monica and Navarro come out a bit. I think it's probably true that some shady shit went down - especially in a sport with limited oversight (I mean, if they can get away with systemic abuse in gymnastics, community college level wouldn't be hard). I'm not sure I buy that Monica is some shady overlord of the whole thing - if she booted Kapena for just drinking with some of the cheerleaders, I don't see how she'd be the same to wave away physical & sexual assault? Especially when Andy disappeared real quick after that relationship? It just doesn't fit to me in some way.

I do reckon LaDarius is probably ripped the roof off some of the seedy abusive stuff that went down.

Also, I rewatched a season 1 episode and it was just wholly creepy in retrospect to see a scene with Jerry, LaDarius and the other boys (TT maybe?) where they are talking about how much Jerry watches cheer especially young underage teams. Not creepy at the time where it just comes across as Jerry being supportive or whatever but hindsight is perfect vision and now it is just horrifying to watch. Completely get the team being shellshocked by it.

Cassadee and her pets are amazing. Jada and Angel Rice were awesome.

The weenies' masculinity talk...not so much.

[Guest]

On 1/19/2022 at 3:28 PM, qtpye said:

You just made me realize that Gill fell on what was Maddy’s original spot for the pyramid.

Others have mentioned that Maddy was pulled from the pyramid in 2020. She was top center in the 2021 pyramid. Also, Gill didn’t fall on the pyramid. It was during partner stunts which Maddy was also doing just off screen. 

The full routine is on YouTube. 

[jrzy]

On 1/16/2022 at 6:50 PM, shipmate said:

I’m sure Kailee is a great coach and all, but I was so distracted with her Kylie Jenner wannabe physical persona. I don’t get the Kardashian standard of beauty for the kids today (now get off my lawn!)

The Kardashian's are vile....that's all I want to say about them.

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by jrzy

[Whimsy]

It would not surprise me if Maddy yelling at Gillian was learned behavior from her all-star gym. 

[Kdawg82]

On 1/16/2022 at 10:28 PM, Moviesnob said:

sport that takes up a ton of time, puts demands on your body, and you can really get caught up in the cult-aspect of it, as well as the 'family' part of it if you allow it and you're on a team working to get ranked.

Yeah! Watching this, it is very cult-like. That's what I said last night when I watched the 1st half season 2. & The fact that so many of these kids come from severely damaged backgrounds and find refuge in this expensive, time-consuming TEAM sport where youre a cog in the machine and can blend in relatively anonymously as personality goes is alarming. Also alarming is the semi less dysfunctional parent who has custody just worshipping at the church of cheer led by the high priest or priestess almighty coach. It's not only cheer but watching the documentary "Althete A" and the Jerry episode on season 2 here, it delves into the abuse that is covered up massively.  

My opinion: It's a sport. It's not that serious.  These are precious children. They need to be valued as individuals and as SOULS. This is nuts. 

[Whimsy]

16 minutes ago, Kdawg82 said:

Yeah! Watching this, it is very cult-like. That's what I said last night when I watched the 1st half season 2. & The fact that so many of these kids come from severely damaged backgrounds and find refuge in this expensive, time-consuming TEAM sport where youre a cog in the machine and can blend in relatively anonymously as personality goes is alarming. Also alarming is the semi less dysfunctional parent who has custody just worshipping at the church of cheer led by the high priest or priestess almighty coach. It's not only cheer but watching the documentary "Althete A" and the Jerry episode on season 2 here, it delves into the abuse that is covered up massively.  

My opinion: It's a sport. It's not that serious.  These are precious children. They need to be valued as individuals and as SOULS. This is nuts. 

I can’t speak directly about Navarro, but cheerleading overall is not a cult. One thing I really appreciated about cheer is my daughter learned a lot of life lessons and skills- the same way many other children do with many other organized sports. She learned accountability, responsibility, perseverance, how to work with others even if you don’t necessarily get along, etc. She has said many times now that she’s an adult that she was grateful for those lessons she’s learned as she feels it’s helped her with college and her career. So, with a good set of coaches, these things are attainable in a healthy way. 
 

Maybe it’s the area of Texas they’re in (I don’t know what the socioeconomic status is there), the fact that it’s only a 2-year school, or Monica specifically that is bringing in these particular kids, but it does seem to be a bit more co-dependence than I’ve ever seen. 

[Starlight925]

While I agree that cheer in general invokes responsibility, discipline, working as a team, I do not understand this particular version of Cheer.  

I don't understand the excruciating pressure put on these young kids, on their bodies, where they literally live & breathe the "full out", all for one 1 show in 1 city against 1 other school.

Competitive Cheer doesn't have the extensive flying that this version has.  I cringe thinking about one bad fall, watching these tiny girls.  Plus, even when they are caught perfectly, the repeated impact on their bodies has to be excruciating, and there is sure to be some permanent damage.

[Paloma]

On 9/15/2020 at 6:47 PM, snarts said:

I'm certainly not trying to defend Jerry's actions if the accusations are true. 

That said, I find something distasteful about how this family is choosing to go public.  The boys are underage, so why parade them around in the media?

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2020/09/14/jerry-harris-cheerleader-netflix-cheer-fbi-investigation-search-warrant-alleged-sexual-misconduct/5741805002/

They've also already filed a civil suit.  Hmmm.

I haven't even finished the comments about season 1 yet, but I want to respond to this comment. I'll put it in spoilers for those who haven't gotten to this point.

Spoiler

The victims (young teenage twin boys) are interviewed in the "Jerry" episode of season 2 (I think it is episode 5), and that interview along with what their mother said was powerful and devastating. The boys wanted to go public when they saw that those in authority who should have done something did not do anything. Presumably to protect the image or the brand, they protected the predator. And as with any pedophile, it doesn't stop with one or two victims. The boys were incredibly brave, especially at that age, because they wanted to prevent Jerry from harming more kids. And the mother was so frustrated at the lack of appropriate response from those in authority. Just like gymnastics, this type of sexual abuse is widespread and, until recently, underreported. When victims do come forward, it is very rarely about the money. But if you can't get justice in the courts, a civil suit may make the cheerleading (or gymnastics) community think hard about paying attention and doing something to protect the kids.

 

[Paloma]

On 1/17/2022 at 7:45 PM, RachelKM said:

Ultimately Maddy's real issue was twofold: 1) She was used to being the best at everything and now she was in a place where everyone was the best at everything and if you didn't perform to your ability, there were at least 3 girls who could do the job. And 2), and this is related, she wasn't used to any sort of failure, perceived or otherwise, at this thing she had always been good at.  So was she mostly crying due to the shock and embarrassment of those two things and, yeah, that it happening in the open made it worse for her.

I agree and really empathized with Maddy because my daughter had a similar experience in dance, though at a younger age. She was the "star" at her small dance school from about age 6 to 14, when she decided to go to a bigger and more professionally oriented school because her dream was to join a major ballet company. This new school provided excellent training, but it quickly became clear that she was not going to be a star or even get lead roles because there were several others who were equally or more talented and who had been training at this school for much longer. She was devastated when they told her she had to go back a level to strengthen her pointe work, and she wanted to quit dance completely. I convinced her to wait until the fall because she had already been accepted to a good summer dance program, and then she could quit if she still wanted to. 

Long story short, she had a great experience at the summer program, stayed at the new school and worked extra-hard to get back to the level she should have been at, and found her place in modern dance rather than ballet. She went to Juilliard and has performed nationally and internationally with several companies for the last 16 years. But she has never forgotten the embarrassment and pain of feeling she was not good enough, and despite her success she still sometimes has that feeling. (And I apologize for the proud mom bragging in this comment.)

[methodwriter85]

On 1/19/2022 at 12:23 PM, SourK said:

The letter was disquieting. The whole situation was, obviously, but the fact that his main thought was apparently, "I can turn this into a speaking opportunity," was disturbing.

I had a teacher who explained pedophilia to me in along the lines of this: "There's something wrong with the way they're wired. They look at a 2-year old girl and think that's the woman of their dreams." I mean, in Jerry's case, he's more of a hebephile (attracted to adolescents) along the lines of R. Kelly, but the point remains- he looks at a teenage boy and thinks that's his dream man. Jerry likely could have had his pick of hunky men as a result of his fame, but he chose instead to solicit nude photos and sexual favors from 14-year old kids. So there's just something in his head that makes him think it's okay to do this and that he's just having fun with boys he thinks are cute and nobody's getting hurt.

So of course Jerry thinks he's going to be able to turn this experience into a speaking engagement. Because he either thinks he's going to skate by, or he thinks people are going to feel sad for him and they'll support him in his future endeavors where he can talk about how he survived prison with his upbeat persona and can-do spirit. 

Yeah, disturbing. I don't know what's in that man's head, but I can't help but think he has zero remorse if his biggest thought was that he can talk about his experience and make a living that way.

[Whimsy]

13 hours ago, Paloma said:

I haven't even finished the comments about season 1 yet, but I want to respond to this comment. I'll put it in spoilers for those who haven't gotten to this point.

  Hide contents

The victims (young teenage twin boys) are interviewed in the "Jerry" episode of season 2 (I think it is episode 5), and that interview along with what their mother said was powerful and devastating. The boys wanted to go public when they saw that those in authority who should have done something did not do anything. Presumably to protect the image or the brand, they protected the predator. And as with any pedophile, it doesn't stop with one or two victims. The boys were incredibly brave, especially at that age, because they wanted to prevent Jerry from harming more kids. And the mother was so frustrated at the lack of appropriate response from those in authority. Just like gymnastics, this type of sexual abuse is widespread and, until recently, underreported. When victims do come forward, it is very rarely about the money. But if you can't get justice in the courts, a civil suit may make the cheerleading (or gymnastics) community think hard about paying attention and doing something to protect the kids.

 

spoiler tags are not needed anywhere in this thread since both seasons have streamed their full set of episodes.  Just for future information.  :)

 

[Paloma]

44 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

14 hours ago, Paloma said:

I haven't even finished the comments about season 1 yet, but I want to respond to this comment. I'll put it in spoilers for those who haven't gotten to this point.

  Reveal spoiler

The victims (young teenage twin boys) are interviewed in the "Jerry" episode of season 2 (I think it is episode 5), and that interview along with what their mother said was powerful and devastating. The boys wanted to go public when they saw that those in authority who should have done something did not do anything. Presumably to protect the image or the brand, they protected the predator. And as with any pedophile, it doesn't stop with one or two victims. The boys were incredibly brave, especially at that age, because they wanted to prevent Jerry from harming more kids. And the mother was so frustrated at the lack of appropriate response from those in authority. Just like gymnastics, this type of sexual abuse is widespread and, until recently, underreported. When victims do come forward, it is very rarely about the money. But if you can't get justice in the courts, a civil suit may make the cheerleading (or gymnastics) community think hard about paying attention and doing something to protect the kids.

 

spoiler tags are not needed anywhere in this thread since both seasons have streamed their full set of episodes.  Just for future information.  :)

Thanks, I wasn't sure of the rule. I just tried to remove the spoiler tag but couldn't figure out how.

[pasdetrois]

I found the names of the two men arrested in addition to Jerry. It may be considered off-topic so I won't elaborate, other than to say one was a Navarro cheer participant and one was a "celebrity" visitor (valued in the cheer community).

In years of cheer and dance, I've encountered some cultish cliques and mean-girl coaches who manipulate players and their parents (not to mention body-shaming). I think they exist at Navarro, especially now that fame and money AND TV have arrived.

I worry especially for the kid who was replaced by Maddie - she was sensitive and became an outsider, and facing the pandemic loneliness to boot. I hope she moves on and excels at something else.

 

[SuzySmith]

On 1/12/2022 at 11:49 PM, methodwriter85 said:

If I'm reading things right, cheerleaders at junior colleges are eligible to compete in 3 championships. I think you're allowed to take 5 years to complete a 2-year degree, but it looks like a lot of them take 3 years. Possibly four, if they redshirted and did not take part in a championship.

I feel like I remember from S1 several of them getting more than one associate's degree

[sab85]

Cheer is going on tour

That touring schedule looks utterly exhausting. Most tours have some travel days but they're performing in a different city almost every night.

Interesting that Andy got "created by" credits.

Edited January 28, 2022 by sab85

[RedbirdNelly]

On 1/15/2022 at 11:20 PM, Stiggs said:

 

I like to think that the team that didn’t win lost because they threw a glass bottle into the ocean like they weren’t right there in a goddamn beach area. Trashing the ocean aside, maybe their fears can cut open someone’s foot. Freakin’ tourists, man. 
 

Since Navarro has the bandshell, and Covid and all, they should have kept it local and just did their routines in a parking lot halfway between schools. 
 

OMG Cassadee - I like seeing a Toddlers and Tiaras vet doing well. 

My son and I watched together and both had a negative reaction to the ocean littering. Not necessary.

For 2020, I felt like they should have just flown some judges to TX and had the 2 teams do their own competition outside. Minimal risk to anybody.

We ended up rooting for TVCC--like the underdogs I guess. I enjoyed Dee show his own version of emotion when he tumbled. No over the top smiles but his own style. 

[MilkMachine]

23 hours ago, sab85 said:

Cheer is going on tour

NGL I'm tempted. I hate arena events but if a friend twisted my arm...

[overtherainbow]

On 1/24/2022 at 2:17 AM, methodwriter85 said:

I had a teacher who explained pedophilia to me in along the lines of this: "There's something wrong with the way they're wired. They look at a 2-year old girl and think that's the woman of their dreams." I mean, in Jerry's case, he's more of a hebephile (attracted to adolescents) along the lines of R. Kelly, but the point remains- he looks at a teenage boy and thinks that's his dream man. Jerry likely could have had his pick of hunky men as a result of his fame, but he chose instead to solicit nude photos and sexual favors from 14-year old kids. So there's just something in his head that makes him think it's okay to do this and that he's just having fun with boys he thinks are cute and nobody's getting hurt.

So of course Jerry thinks he's going to be able to turn this experience into a speaking engagement. Because he either thinks he's going to skate by, or he thinks people are going to feel sad for him and they'll support him in his future endeavors where he can talk about how he survived prison with his upbeat persona and can-do spirit. 

Yeah, disturbing. I don't know what's in that man's head, but I can't help but think he has zero remorse if his biggest thought was that he can talk about his experience and make a living that way.

How chilling and sad to think back to the first season and realize Jerry’s bubbliness and almost constant peppiness masked a more insidious predator who took advantage of much younger boys under everyone’s noses (along with the two others involved with the team), all while being considered a popular favorite and at one point even "the heart and soul of Cheer". He's just all around revolting and deserves no sympathy. He's delusional if he thinks there's any coming back from what he did, even if he's miraculously not convicted and put away for many years (knowing so many predators get off quite easily in this country).

On 1/28/2022 at 11:39 AM, SuzySmith said:

I feel like I remember from S1 several of them getting more than one associate's degree

Most likely, unless they only took a handful of classes. I think Gabi only has one. That's how they can cheer for 3 years, by either extending the classes they take or getting another degree. Though technically you can stay as long as you want as long as the school gets your money/reaches a certain enrollment. I think most of them just take longer to finish intentionally, though. There are only so many associate degrees that are actually useful. 

[methodwriter85]

2 hours ago, overtherainbow said:

How chilling and sad to think back to the first season and realize Jerry’s bubbliness and almost constant peppiness masked a more insidious predator who took advantage of much younger boys under everyone’s noses (along with the two others involved with the team), all while being considered a popular favorite and at one point even "the heart and soul of Cheer". He's just all around revolting and deserves no sympathy. He's delusional if he thinks there's any coming back from what he did, even if he's miraculously not convicted and put away for many years (knowing so many predators get off quite easily in this country).

The only people I feel sorry for are Jerry's victims, and all the people who loved/supported Jerry. He had a whole village of love/support behind him, and instead of them getting to watch him graduate from Louisville, they're going to have to watch him go to jail. His adoptive mom was apparently trying to get him into house arrest while awaiting his trial, and the judge rejected it because they found out that he was still texting boys even after he tried to get a "fresh" phone once he realized he was being investigated. 

3 hours ago, MilkMachine said:

NGL I'm tempted. I hate arena events but if a friend twisted my arm...

They're going to be at Hersey Park, which is only 2 hours away from me, so I'm kinda tempted.

[Hanahope]

Another "cheer mom" here with thoughts.

I had no idea that junior colleges gave out scholarships.  or is it just these two because of their cheer program?  it never occurred to me that a JC would have scholarships, since all that i've had contact with were primarily attended by local kids and young adults who lived at home or nearby, and JCs cost less than even state colleges.  it makes me curious as to how Navarro and Trinity Valley got to have scholarships. 

I also wonder even how people learn about these two schools.  I've been a cheer mom for almost 10 years now, both all star and high school and i've never heard of them until Cheer.  maybe because they are JCs and have scholarships, such information is mostly circulated in areas where kids might need the extra help both academically and financially? i'm assuming they needed some extra academic help, since as good as they are cheering, they still didn't get a D1 school scholarship, even those kids that looked like they had more affluent parents.  in any event, I'm glad there is a place for these kids to get help, which they hopefully use to move on to a 4 year school, and that cheerleading got them to continue their education.

I noticed that whenever they show these cheerleaders hometowns, its always with private gyms and not with any school or local recreation cheer programs (which are usually much less expensive). again, its never been my experience (or anyone i know) that all star gyms go around letting kids participate when they/their parents can't pay.  yes, a lot of gyms/all star programs do fundraising, which helps on costs, but even fundraising takes a lot of (parent) time and it appears that many of these kids from harsher backgrounds don't have parents who have the time to do fundraising.  

so kudos to those gym owners who found a way to let these kids have a place to go to hone their skills.  I also have to wonder how these kids participated in competitions, which almost always involve traveling, sometimes out of state and overnight hotel stays.  i guess some other families helped the kids out too.

some above mentioned crop tops.  So it used to be in all star cheerleading that any age could wear crop tops, which imo was just not right on young girls.  but a few years ago, a rule change was made that only senior level and above (which includes college) could wear crop tops.  of course, in all stars, a kid as young as 10 could be on a senior team, so sometimes you do still see young girls in crop tops.  i've always been happy my daughter didn't wear one until she actually was a senior.

I'm sure that Monica was a "get" for DWTS after Cheer came out and made her famous.  and in a normal year, maybe her going to do it would have been fine.  but clearly it was a bad decision for this particular year.  with covid, and then the Jerry thing, imo, she should have not gone, told DWTS next year.  and i agree that her relationship with La'Darius, which she encouraged, went a bit too far and was absolutely triggering to his abandonment issues.  and the poor decision to hire Kaliee as a coach when she was just barely out of school, new to coaching the team, and younger than some of the cheerleaders.

I watched both Navarro's and Trinity Valley's routines.  TV's was definitely the harder one, and Gill's stunt group's error on day 2 was clear when you compare her to the cheerleader on the other side she was supposed to mirror.  Gill missed a turn and flip.  It was part of the dismount, sure, but also part of the whole stunt.  And if you are going to give Gill back her error, then you have to give back Dee's error on day 1 and by that count, TV still wins.  and btw, TV came really close to winning the Grand Championship, they lost to only one other team, Weber State.  But for Dee's error, they would have won that too.

Khris' situation is interesting.  i suppose its good that he recognized his weakness with marriage and perhaps living with his best friend's family he could see that some marriages can really work so he's more willing to try now.  His experience as a judge is probably very helpful, knowing how to get those tenths.  so TV can now afford 2 head coaches?

I chuckled over the drama with the professional choreographers, the one that left Navarro for TVCC and his now former assistant who stuck with Navarro.  

 

 

 

[bosawks]

Monica never struck me as a particularly happy go lucky person but after watching season 2 she just seems beaten down.

[RachelKM]

On 1/30/2022 at 2:48 PM, Hanahope said:

I'm sure that Monica was a "get" for DWTS after Cheer came out and made her famous.  and in a normal year, maybe her going to do it would have been fine.  but clearly it was a bad decision for this particular year.  with covid, and then the Jerry thing, imo, she should have not gone, told DWTS next year. 

This information about Jerry came out after DWTS had already started. It is possible she knew about it before his arrest. But my recollection is that the allegations were made to and investigations were conducted through Varsity NCA who then notified the FBI in August. 

DWTS premiered on September 13 and Jerry was arrest literally the following week.  I suppose Monica could have dropped out that week.  But the optics of that would have made it look like she was involved somehow and she wasn't.  

And Monica was not that much of a "get" for DWTS that they would have let her push off for a year.  She was and is a temp celebrity who will fade back to relative obscurity unless she continues to be in the public eye.  Cheer season 1 made Navarro and Monica national cheer darlings in 2020.  That was fleeting. It is unlikely that it would have been interested in waiting until 2021.

I agree, though, that COVID and the changes to how the school would be run, socializing for the kids, and everything else the goes along with that made 2020/2021 particularly bad timing to accept DWTS.

Edited February 4, 2022 by RachelKM

[irisheyes]

Jada has been disinvited from Rebel appearances at cheer comps because Rebel didn’t like the fact she cussed on Cheer. Umm, last I looked it’s rated TV-MA. 
https://www.vulture.com/2022/01/jada-wooten-excluded-cheer-live-appearances.html

[GaT]

On 1/28/2022 at 3:46 PM, sab85 said:

Cheer is going on tour

That touring schedule looks utterly exhausting. Most tours have some travel days but they're performing in a different city almost every night.

Interesting that Andy got "created by" credits.

Here's Andy's story

Quote

Andy explains he isn't just an assistant coach for the Corsicana, TX team ... he also works for a company that helps coordinate cheer camps, and when things opened back up, there was a huge demand for him to get back to work.