Sanditon - General Discussion

[treeofdreams]

It is surprising that there are so many "off" touches in this show, considering how many shows Andrew Davies has done.  You'd think he would know better by now.

[izabella]

1 minute ago, treeofdreams said:

It is surprising that there are so many "off" touches in this show, considering how many shows Andrew Davies has done.  You'd think he would know better by now.

It comes off as if the show is trying to appeal to a younger viewer, the kind that wouldn't see the anachronistic part of it because they haven't watched or read period stuff.  Like he's making it more modern that the times allowed.  I know certain shows, like Downton, are anachronistic to make it easier for viewers to enjoy it....this one takes that to the next level.

[meatball77]

There are plenty of romance novelists who write historical romances with a modern twist (Julia Quinn's Bridgerton series being adapted by netflix for example), but they aren't changing things like needing a chaperone or their dress (the clothes are the whole point!) and they're always worried about being ruined.

I just read an article where Davies says he added the incest because he was reading gothic fiction from the time.  If he wanted to produce gothic fiction that's fine, but that's not Jane Austin.

[shapeshifter]

Which Austen work had Fanny marry her 1st cousin (IIRC)? The “siblings” in this version of Sanditon aren’t even related. In-show their romance is depicted as scandalous, but would it have been at the time? 
But I guess it’s a moot question since the brother is a cad whereas the sister is both infatuated and a little unbalanced. In an Austen book she would eventually be fortunate to marry the jovial Parker brother (and IRL I too wish I’d gone for someone fun), but in this “edgier” version, it seems suicide is her only fate.

IDK. I don’t have to watch to find out how it all ends, but I most likely will. There aren’t that many episodes, are there?

[treeofdreams]

There are eight episodes.

[seasons]

Is esther pregnant?

This last episode was kind of useless.

I'd like to see Young Stringer come out of the ocean like Sidney did! 🔥😏

 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, seasons said:

Is esther pregnant?

I wondered if the director was telegraphing a pregnancy when she did the hand-to-abdomen gesture. 

[MisterGlass]

I'm okay with adding some modern touches to Austen.  I thought the "Emma" miniseries ten years ago with Romola Garai and Johnny Lee Miller was a great period adaptation that was also expressive and accessible for a modern audience.  This one doesn't have that balance.

This episode was...fine. 

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

And some of it feels a little too formulaic

I think that's the problem for me.  I was thinking this episode that I've seen this already.  It's starting to be clear that they are pushing a novel set-up into a weekly series.  The story doesn't really progress, and there isn't enough variation week to week to keep my full attention. 

I will probably stop for a bit.  Maybe I'll watch the remaining episodes in a block some time.

[seasons]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I wondered if the director was telegraphing a pregnancy when she did the hand-to-abdomen gesture. 

Me too! Maybe we will find out next week!

[Wonkabar5]

@ shapeshifter:

Quote

Which Austen work had Fanny marry her 1st cousin (IIRC)?

I think this may be Mansfield Park.  It's been awhile.  Edward? I don't remember his name,lol.

[Juneau Gal]

I watched this series via PBS Passport. So as to not spoil anything I will just say this: what a bunch of nothing. When you get through the series, you might agree.

[humbleopinion]

Fanny Price and Edmund Bertram in Mansfield Park are first cuzzies

[seasons]

Oh for heaven's sake, now charlotte is going to save the cricket game...

[Nidratime]

That woman, who's in love with her brother -- or whatever he is to her -- is a total dope.

[HoodlumSheep]

Charlotte is to partially blame this time but does sidney really have to keep screaming at her every episode? Uuuggghhh. I know they're probably going to end up together but i still can't get behind them as a pairing. In the mean time dear sweet young stringer is there and if charlotte doesn't want him i'll take him. 

Uuugghhhh poor lord babington. I hope he doesn't give up. Esther seeems to be having her heel turn now. Her step bro continues to be awful. I feel like it was implied that he and clara might start scheming together. ????

 

[Doublemint]

I almost fell off the couch when I heard "Do you get my drift"  - I think it was from Sidney.  The fonz is alive and well and living in Sanditon!

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Charlotte is to partially blame this time but does sidney really have to keep screaming at her every episode? Uuuggghhh. I know they're probably going to end up together but i still can't get behind them as a pairing.

Yeah, Sidney's going to have to get a personality transplant. 

But the way they said Miss Lambe was seen "being bundled into a carriage" (with Charlotte repeating it for good measure) sounded like something more nefarious than Miss Lambe having a romantic rendezvous with her lover.
And I think they included in the recap Charlotte asking why Sydney disapproved of Otis Molyneux, but before he could answer Miss Lambe says something like "just look at him," implying it's a race thing. But what if it's not? What if he's having money trouble like Sidney's brother? Did they have kidnapping for ransom at this time and place?

And speaking about things not being what they seem, Esther seemed like she really didn't want to turn down Lord Babington.
 

 

2 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

In the mean time dear sweet young stringer is there and if charlotte doesn't want him i'll take him. 

I'm afraid his father's injury on the job could be foreshadowing Young Stringer's demise. ☹️

[kitmerlot1213]

11 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Uugghhhh poor lord babington. I hope he doesn't give up. Esther seeems to be having her heel turn now. Her step bro continues to be awful. I feel like it was implied that he and clara might start scheming together. ????

 

I find myself really rooting for Esther and Lord Babington to end up together.  Sure Esther has done some terrible things but she really seems to be suffering--her pained reaction to Clara's pointed and nasty comments are hard to watch--and I kind of want her to be okay. 

And this is such a nontraditional Jane Austen story because the heroine doesn't have any type of villain bothering her while the unscrupulous people--Esther, Edward and Clara--all seems to be attacking each other.  In fact, Sidney who I think we're supposed to view as the hero is the only person really giving her any grief.  Strange indeed.

[LennieBriscoe]

Any scene without Theo James is a wasted scene. 😍

I am tired of the scrunchy faces of Charlotte.

I find the Miss Lambe arc beyond boring and requiring nothing of Theo James beyond repeating, "You had better watch her, or else!"

I was sorely disappointed in the aborted redemption-through-marriage of Esther. 

I like the cheerful overweight Parker; the forthright-to-a-fault old lady; and young Master Stringer.

With whom will Charlotte tie her future? She would complement and encourage the career dreams of Young Stringer, but she would humanize and "lighten up" the intense Sidney. That is to say, there then would be greater character development with the latter. 

To the possibility that Sidney longs for Miss Lambe himself: Such a pairing would knock this drama right out of Austen territory, no? Not to mention making retroactively superfluous all the pigtail-pulling remarks by Sidney about Charlotte's "assumptions" and "opinions," never mind her cricket stint.

Charlotte and Sidney= Maddie and David. Can't you just see it:

 

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by LennieBriscoe

[humbleopinion]

 Andrew Davies finally threw out that wrinkly blue and yellow short sleeved button shirt into the rag box and put on a proper jumper and collared shirt for his TH.

 

 

[treeofdreams]

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I'm afraid his father's injury on the job could be foreshadowing Young Stringer's demise.

He will probably have a life-threatening injury and Charlotte will save his life.

Or if he does die, she will bring him back to life.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Meh, I was disappointed with the ending. Wonder if they weren't sure there'd be a second season but were trying to leave a slight cliffhanger for Charlotte and Sidney just in case. There's always a possibility his fiancee could die after they get married. Would he have then inherited her money or would it have reverted back to her first husband's family?

I also had a hard time with the Miss Lambe character. Perhaps I don't know much about that era of British history but I can't buy that a White aristocrat would've been willing to marry her even if she was wealthy.

Quote

half mulatto

Isn't that redundant? That is unless what they meant that one of her parents was mulatto and the other was either Black, or White. Then she'd have been considered either Black, or a quadroon (three-quarters White). Ugh with terms like mulatto and quadroon anyway.

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Joimiaroxeu

[iMonrey]

Quote

I find the Miss Lambe arc beyond boring and requiring nothing of Theo James beyond repeating, "You had better watch her, or else!"

Yeah, I'm not interested in Miss Lambe and the forbidden beau either. Partly because I don't understand what the objection is, but also because I don't find either character the least bit interesting. In fact I find Miss Lambe to be unnecessarily and unwisely petulant and unpleasant.

I did feel sorry for poor Lord Babington though and I hope Esther has a change of heart before it's too late. She needs to get away from her toxic stepbrother. 

It seems like every TV show always has the special sporting game episode, and I generally dislike them all.

[piccolascimmia]

I've been streaming Sanditon via the PBS Passport app.  Which episode just aired?

I've gotten through 8 episodes and want to talk about how it ended!  🙂

[treeofdreams]

11 minutes ago, piccolascimmia said:

I've been streaming Sanditon via the PBS Passport app.  Which episode just aired?

The episode we just saw yesterday was episode 5.

[izabella]

5 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I find myself really rooting for Esther and Lord Babington to end up together.  Sure Esther has done some terrible things but she really seems to be suffering--her pained reaction to Clara's pointed and nasty comments are hard to watch--and I kind of want her to be okay. 

I was so disappointed she turned him down, and in such a bitchy way.  She could have escaped whatever she is trapped in with her step-brother, but no.  Somehow, he matters more to her than her own life does.

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

I like the cheerful overweight Parker; the forthright-to-a-fault old lady; and young Master Stringer

Yes, and, hey, 3 likable characters is better than a lot of other shows/series!

[meatball77]

On 2/3/2020 at 12:46 AM, shapeshifter said:

What if he's having money trouble like Sidney's brother? Did they have kidnapping for ransom at this time and place?

Even better, they could head off to Gretna Greene and he could marry her.  Then he gets her money.

It's not a bad regency novel if there isn't at least one kidnapping, spy plot or elopement to Gretna Greene (sometimes these work but I roll my eyes everytime there's another kidnapping).

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, meatball77 said:

Even better, they could head off to Gretna Greene and he could marry her.  Then he gets her money.

It's not a bad regency novel if there isn't at least one kidnapping, spy plot or elopement to Gretna Greene (sometimes these work but I roll my eyes everytime there's another kidnapping).

I don’t think Austen had kidnapping but didn’t Sense and Sensibility have an elopement? Since this is “updated,” I guess it could go either way.  

Edited February 4, 2020 by shapeshifter

[treeofdreams]

Since the episode description is "Tensions between Tom and his laborers erupt during the Sanditon cricket match. Charlotte and Sidney continue to clash, resulting in Miss Lambe being placed in terrible danger." it sounds like a real kidnapping.

No doubt Charlotte will be the one to rescue her.

Edited February 4, 2020 by treeofdreams

[meatball77]

She's ruined either way.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, meatball77 said:

She's ruined either way.

Maybe Sidney gets the marriage-for-money annulled (or offs the groom) and then a pregnant Miss Lambe can take in Esther and start the first home for unwed mothers (since this is an updated version of Austen).

[oceanview]

On 2/3/2020 at 9:40 AM, LennieBriscoe said:

 

Any scene without Theo James is a wasted scene. 😍

I am tired of the scrunchy faces of Charlotte.

I find the Miss Lambe arc beyond boring and requiring nothing of Theo James beyond repeating, "You had better watch her, or else!"

I was sorely disappointed in the aborted redemption-through-marriage of Esther. 

I like the cheerful overweight Parker; the forthright-to-a-fault old lady; and young Master Stringer.

With whom will Charlotte tie her future? She would complement and encourage the career dreams of Young Stringer, but she would humanize and "lighten up" the intense Sidney. That is to say, there then would be greater character development with the latter. 

To the possibility that Sidney longs for Miss Lambe himself: Such a pairing would knock this drama right out of Austen territory, no? Not to mention making retroactively superfluous all the pigtail-pulling remarks by Sidney about Charlotte's "assumptions" and "opinions," never mind her cricket stint.

Charlotte and Sidney= Maddie and David. Can't you just see it:

 

 

Boy do I miss Maddie and David.   That was such a different dynamic than we were used to at that time and they were both HOT  LOL

[susannot]

Theo James and Jack Fox are the two hottest men on TV right now.  I love a tall aristocratic Brit.  

Don't know what will happen with Georgiana.  I think she will remain independent.  No man will own her, especially since, at the time, if a woman married, her property became her husband's.

The Edward/Claire/Esther triangle will end in tragedy. 

[meatball77]

I'd just like to point out that I called the kidnapping and the rush to Gretna Greene 😛 

I loved the masquerade ball.  The dance scenes were beautiful.

[treeofdreams]

9 minutes ago, meatball77 said:

I loved the masquerade ball.  The dance scenes were beautiful.

I always love the dancing in these kinds of movies.  Wish I could find a group that did them now!

[JustDucky]

After tonight, I care not a bit for the younger Denhams.  Here's hoping the matriarch is faking her illness, and will "bequeath" all three of them a schedule for stagecoaches out of Sanditon after they've all self-destructed.

There's quite a bit of unnecessary things happening on the Parker side of the story, mainly with the return of Sidney's Old Flame.  There's a love triangle set up already, with Young Stringer - why set up another angle with Mrs. Golde-Dyger?

I watch the "more about the making of Sanditon" bits after the show because 1)more Theo James is good, and 2)watching the writers and producers struggle to justify their twists on the story with "subtext!" is amusing and maddening at the same time.  Yes, there were some shadiness between the lines of Austen's works (Mansfield Park immediately comes to mind), but the beauty of the shadiness is that it stayed in the damned shade.  

I'll keep watching, because I'm not a quitter, but mostly I'm staying in the habit of flipping to PBS on Sundays so I don't miss the premiere of Call the Midwife.  (And, also, because I like picking at things until they're sore and scabby.)

[shapeshifter]

This was the first episode that went too far off the Austen rails for me with the almost-rape scene.

4 hours ago, JustDucky said:

There's a love triangle set up already, with Young Stringer - why set up another angle with Mrs. Golde-Dyger?

Heh, “Mrs. Golde-Dyger,” indeed!  
But having a seemingly more worthy* rival thrown in at precisely several moments after Charlotte is convinced by a trustworthy confidant that she, Charlotte, and Sidney are in love, is a very Austenian move. 
Perhaps even more Austen-like is having Charlotte get the idea of Eliza being the linchpin of Sidney’s happiness from Sidney’s brother, whose role is Charlotte’s host/benefactor, but also who we see is a fool with regards to matters of judgement, and seems created by the author “for just such a time as this.” 
—————

* I suspect most viewers will not see Eliza as worthy of Sidney because she broke his heart to marry for money, but that would have just been the wise thing to do at that time, and not immoral in any way. Likely it broke her heart too.
Today on a Cagney and Lacey rerun I heard a great line from the character of Mary Beth Lacey  regarding love triangles: If one person prevents their lover from becoming involved with someone else, then there will be 3 unhappy people instead of just one. 

[Lily H]

And just when Sidney has become much more likeable, he rushes off to chat up the insipid-looking Eliza, leaving newly-lovestruck Charlotte standing alone in misery in the middle of the dancefloor.

The old lady's not actually dead yet, right? Aren't they taking a big chance by destroying the will a little prematurely?

[LennieBriscoe]

Sidney, as we have seen him develop, would most certainly not have been eager to leave Charlotte at that moment to converse with the woman who left him with a broken heart. 

It is his developing acceptance of his attraction to Charlotte, of opening his heart,  that is driving his financial generosity towards his brother and towards Otis, and his emotional generosity towards Georgiana after her running away. Thus, his sudden eagerness to be with his dumper beyond a sincere but brief greeting makes no characterization sense. And after rescuing Charlotte from being raped or worse? 

The scene was, in short, a bad contrivance to delay the inevitable pairing of Charlotte and Sidney. 

I would love to live in Sanditon! 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

, his sudden eagerness to be with his dumper beyond a sincere but brief greeting makes no characterization sense

I am assuming that Sidney does not blame Eliza for his broken heart because it would have been her duty to marry the rich old man, and that her own heart was equally broken. 
But that’s the way it was in Austen’s day and novels, and this series is not entirely following those rules. 
Still, Sidney did just tell Charlotte that there was no one else in the room he would want to dance with, so, yes his behavior does make no characterization sense. 

[springbarb]

I got frustrated with last night's episode. The carriage rescue on the way to Gretna Green was straight out of a romance novel, but what was upsetting was Charlotte telling a woman she doesn't know at all about what happened to Miss Lambe. That kind of knowledge wouldn't help her prospects at all.

Charlotte most reminds me of Catherine Moreland from Northanger Abbey; she's all naivety and assumptions. I continue to hope that she winds up with Mr. Stringer, not Sidney, though that's clearly not our endgame.

[seacliffsal]

I think I am going to finish this series as I tend to stay with a show through its run.  However, I have a growing frustration with the various story lines and the character of Charlotte.  Just a bit too quick they were able to overcome the head start of the nefarious kidnappers and figure out exactly how to find Miss Lambe.  It was also a bit quick for me the turn around in Sydney and Charlotte's relationship.  It felt a bit unearned to me.

I was glad that she finally did her hair according to the styles and customs of the era.  

[iMonrey]

I care not one wit for the Georgiana saga so much of this episode disinterested me. Lady Denham is a fool if she keeps only one copy of her will at her own residence, being fully aware of her nephew's nefarious nature. I've also tired of Charlotte and Sidney's constant seesawing between hostility and flirtation. I did enjoy the scenes between Edward and Clara though.

[pezgirl7]

This episode had so many ridiculous moments. I knew as soon as Charlotte was attacked, that it would be Sidney that would appear out of nowhere and save the damsel in distress. Despite them being in a city of a million people, they just happened to be in the same dark alley at the same time. Then we have Charlotte spouting off about Miss Lambe and her feelings towards Sidney to a complete stranger. And finally the sex scene on the floor, with 3 seconds of foreplay. Despite the ridiculousness, I'll be watching till the end!

Edited February 10, 2020 by pezgirl7

[seasons]

That sex scene on the floor between edward and clara was so dynasty/soap opera -ish! But seeing jack fox half naked is fine with me! 🔥

[Shanna Marie]

8 hours ago, springbarb said:

what was upsetting was Charlotte telling a woman she doesn't know at all about what happened to Miss Lambe. That kind of knowledge wouldn't help her prospects at all.

That had me climbing the walls! That whole scene was a good indication of the difference between someone actually from the Regency era writing and a modern person writing about the Regency era. In Pride and Prejudice, it's such a horrible faux pas that it's mortifying just to watch it when Mr. Collins approaches Mr. Darcy without being introduced to him first, even though they did have a connection and Collins was only passing on generic greetings. Here, we have Charlotte just babbling away at some stranger with no introduction whatsoever, and no one seems to think anything of it. Worse, she's babbling away about other people's business, naming their names, when those events would have been scandalous, the sort of thing that could have ruined the reputations of all involved if word got out. Miss Lambe might have been considered compromised by her kidnapping. They wouldn't have wanted word about that to get out.

I'm guessing all this was deliberate to set up a future plot point, so there will be some trouble from Charlotte having blabbed. If not and if the whole scene was purely for the point of the lady telling Charlotte she's in love with Sidney, then it will be even more infuriating. Even an unsophisticated country girl of Charlotte's class would know better than to just start blurting to a random stranger with no introduction.

Wasn't the lady she was blabbing to the friend of one of those men who was involved with the debt/kidnapping? Or was there only a passing similarity and I wasn't paying close attention by that point?

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Lady Denham is a fool if she keeps only one copy of her will at her own residence, being fully aware of her nephew's nefarious nature.

Good point, @iMonrey, and I a think we all agree she’s no fool in with regards to her money. Stay tuned to see if another copy of the will turns up. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

Wasn't the lady she was blabbing to the friend of one of those men who was involved with the debt/kidnapping? Or was there only a passing similarity and I wasn't paying close attention by that point?

I didn’t think so. But I missed a few moments. 

[HoodlumSheep]

Edward and Clara deserve each other at this point. I hope Lady Denham pulls thru and kicks them to the curb. Esther can stay though. 

This entire episode was...off? awkward? Cringier than the previous episodes have managed to be? Not my favorite. 

Of course sidney shows up in the exact same alley at exactly the right time to rescue charlotte. 

I didn't even care for the fancypants ball scene. Those random few 5 second slow-mo bits they seemed to throw in were straight up not good. Way to kill the scene (not that i was very impressed w/ it to begin with--i still don't care for sidney x charlotte and i actual thought the scene lacked the usual ust we get in austen ball scenes). 

And the ex has arrived 😕

A personal nitpick: i can't stand it when we get masquerade balls but the mc's always seem to ditch their masks two seconds into it. 

The carriage chase was corny as well. 

Least favorite episode of of the season so far.

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by HoodlumSheep

[Doublemint]

16 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

That had me climbing the walls! That whole scene was a good indication of the difference between someone actually from the Regency era writing and a modern person writing about the Regency era. In Pride and Prejudice, it's such a horrible faux pas that it's mortifying just to watch it when Mr. Collins approaches Mr. Darcy without being introduced to him first, even though they did have a connection and Collins was only passing on generic greetings. Here, we have Charlotte just babbling away at some stranger with no introduction whatsoever, and no one seems to think anything of it. Worse, she's babbling away about other people's business, naming their names, when those events would have been scandalous, the sort of thing that could have ruined the reputations of all involved if word got out. Miss Lambe might have been considered compromised by her kidnapping. They wouldn't have wanted word about that to get out.

I'm guessing all this was deliberate to set up a future plot point, so there will be some trouble from Charlotte having blabbed. If not and if the whole scene was purely for the point of the lady telling Charlotte she's in love with Sidney, then it will be even more infuriating. Even an unsophisticated country girl of Charlotte's class would know better than to just start blurting to a random stranger with no introduction.

Wasn't the lady she was blabbing to the friend of one of those men who was involved with the debt/kidnapping? Or was there only a passing similarity and I wasn't paying close attention by that point?

Yes to all of this - also the sex scene in the Great Hall - where were the servants?  There were hall boys, footmen & a butler about - it was unreal.    Also the nephew created such a mess of papers during his search.  What does that show the Butler?   In real life he would have carefully sifted through the papers and not throw them everywhere.    The idea of Charlotte in London unchaperoned is ridiculous along with her escapades.   Also - the dancing.  At that time people did not embrace, as in a waltz, when dancing.  Of course they had to invent a dance where part of it involved embracing.   All that said I'll watch till the end.....