S12.E03: Orphan 55

[DanaK]

Per Digiguide and other known bits

Title: Orphan 55

Date: Sunday 12th January 2020

Time: 19:10 to 20:00 (50 minutes long) on the BBC (BBC America will show it at 8pm ET)

Having decided that everyone could do with a holiday, the Doctor takes Graham, Yasmin, Ryan to a luxury resort for a spot of rest and relaxation. However, they discover the place where they are having a break is hiding a number of deadly secrets. What are the ferocious monsters that are attacking Tranquillity Spa? Guest starring Laura Fraser and James Buckley, alongside Jodie Whittaker as the 13th incarnation of the Time Lord, and Bradley Walsh, Mandip Gill and Tosin Cole as her trusty travelling companions.

Director: Lee Haven Jones

Writer: Ed Hime

[DanaK]

Trailer for episode

 

 

Longer trailer via BBC America

 

 

Note that the cast has said this is a pretty scary episode

 

 

 

 

2 new promo pics to go with the other 2. Looks like the Doctor is wearing her new sweater/jumper

[Sakura12]

The Doctor found the tesseract from the MCU? Lol

[Joe Hellandback]

Ok, just watched this in the UK so if you're in the US/Commonwealth etc obvious huge spoilers;

Well I thought this was an interesting mishmash of classic Who eps drawing from Full Circle (the adaptive native monsters who can't stand pure oxygen), The Leisure Hive, The Mysterious Planet. Obvious eco-message, hints of Alien Resurrection and an obscure old B-movie called Hybrid;

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119339/?ref_=fn_tt_tt_3

right down to the futuristic vehicle. All told I thought this undemanding but fun. 

 

[PWHCHCH]

This episode was poorly produced/directed/edited. What a shit show. I found it all pretty decent until Ryan got attacked by the vending machine. It all went down hill from there. 

[Joe Hellandback]

9 minutes ago, GSManiac said:

This episode was poorly produced/directed/edited. What a shit show. I found it all pretty decent until Ryan got attacked by the vending machine. It all went down hill from there. 

I actually liked the Dr treating the infection, especially the bats stuff. 

[elle]

21 minutes ago, GSManiac said:

Ryan got attacked by the vending machine. 

That sounds humourous.  

This episode was promoted heavily as the "scary" episode.  How does this compare to say the spider episode?

[Llywela]

Hmm. Okay, not going to be a fave, this one. A solid enough episode but, I dunno, it didn't really gel, for me.

The reveal that Orphan 55 was actually Earth wasn't particularly satisfying, imo, partly because it seemed at odds with what we've seen of future Earth on the show before (granted the Doc says this is just one timeline, though that in itself raises questions about exactly how the TARDIS travels in comparison to what has been established before), but mainly because I think it would have been more interesting if for once it wasn't Earth, you know? It doesn't always have to be Earth.

I appreciate the political sentiment about caring for the planet, though it got more than a little heavy handed in the final scenes, and a large but decent guest cast were unfortunately not given enough room to develop their characters. Potentially interesting one shots like Hyph3n were underused and little more than cannon fodder. Also, this has all been done before of course: holiday planet at risk from native threat.

I dunno. It wasn't a bad episode, but it didn't really wow and I don't think it's one I'd rush to revisit. Also it has that particularly blood thirsty feel that some eps of New Who have - its all well and good to try and present a moving self-sacrifice to try and affect the audience, but when you've just wiped out an entire resort of guests without a blink (and largely off screen), it's a little hollow.  I'm never that keen on episodes where Team TARDIS are practically the only people left standing at the end, with the rest of the cast falling by the wayside one by one.

I liked some of the character notes - I thought Yaz was quietly effective in this one, leaning into her police training (and, I guess, the instincts that took her into the police in the first place). Ryan's bond with Bella didn't work for me, though, not least because the show was still playing on it as a pseudo-romance even after it had been revealed that Bella was responsible for the deaths of most of the rest of the cast, including an entire resort full of guests. Her culpability really wasn't emphasised enough, imo, and her motivation was extremely weak. 'My mum neglected me when I was growing up, so I'm going to destroy her life's work, including the dozens of innocent bystanders who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.' Yeah, no, she deserved no sympathy.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Llywela

[elle]

14 minutes ago, Llywela said:

The reveal that Orphan 55 was actually Earth wasn't particularly satisfying, imo, partly because it seemed at odds with what we've seen of future Earth on the show before (granted the Doc says this is just one timeline, though that in itself raises questions about exactly how the TARDIS travels in comparison to what has been established before), but mainly because I think it would have been more interesting if for once it wasn't Earth, you know? It doesn't always have to be Earth.

About this being just one timeline, I think back to some early NuWho stories.  Nine talks about Harriet Jones ushering a new golden age as PM, then we see Ten sabotage her future.  Also with Nine we hear about the future of Earth in "The Long Game" or how it should be at that point, he fixes it which then sets up events in "Bad Wolf"/ "The Parting of the Ways". I don't think the writers are planning for showing that this Doctor did something to set events in motion that lead to this future.  It does seem that the writers like to play with the idea that there is more than one future.

[DanaK]

 

I’ve already read the spoilers and opinions for this because I couldn’t wait the many hours to see it in the US. I’ll be back after I’ve actually seen it

[HauntedBathroom]

Rather dull. The only interesting stuff in this episode was wondering

1. Where had I seen all of those plot points before?
2. What shit was the designer smoking? With aliens that either came from Cats the movie, or the comedy hair dye shop? Weird choices.

[PWHCHCH]

1 hour ago, elle said:

That sounds humourous.  

This episode was promoted heavily as the "scary" episode.  How does this compare to say the spider episode?

Both are as bad as each other. Neither were good episodes and neither of them were at all scary. 
 

I would have liked it to have been some how tied into the 6th Doctor episode “The Mysterious Planet”. Both have a similar scene of an underground passage where it’s revealed that the planet is future ravaged Earth. 
 

The old lady was a terrible actress. How she was cast is a mystery to me. It would have been a perfect role for a famous elderly actress. 

Edited January 12, 2020 by GSManiac

[Prower]

Do I really need to get lectured about global warming by writers who don't even understand that splitting CO2 into carbon and oxygen needs a boatload of energy and that plants don't use the sun and remain stationary for shits and giggles?

Also fuck off with your multiple timelines. That's not how it works in DW. The show has previously established what will happen to earth across mutliple episodes and it wasn't teeth-monsters. The only wiggle room is that (some but not all) time can be rewritten, but that requires active involvement of a time traveler. So if you told me the master made earth this way, fine. But that's not the message they tried to cram down our throats, was it?

Maybe somebody should tell these writers that the Tardis translates most languages........ which includes russian!!!

I guess it's okay to be a mass murderer if one of the Tardis crew really wants to shag you... What a disgrace.

  

3 hours ago, GSManiac said:

This episode was poorly produced/directed/edited.

Like all episodes from this and the last season. I guess that's what happens if you exclusively hire soap opera director, writers and producers...

 

[Suzysite]

Probably my least favorite episode of the series.  Slow and unlikeable.  So easy to predict the Dregs (really?) were mutated future humans.  Ho hum. 

[Terrafamilia]

If the oxygen level was 1% what was burning in the tunnel and how?

[Lantern7]

The hand . . . so heavy . . .

I’m not declaring this to be the nadir of the series. I’m not saying this was the episode when the Doctor slapped a saddle on the jumping shark. But even if you take past stories into account where how humanity would leave Earth (“The Ark in Space,” for instance), it still felt preachy. Or maybe I’m not a fan of “siege” stories.

In The Time Machine, how far into the future did the protagonist travel to encounter Morlocks? Because that’s where my mind went. Maybe this story didn’t take place Next Sunday, A.D. (BTW, I found out IFC is running old MST3K episodes. I DVRed Santa Claus!)

I will say Jodie did a lot of good with the given material. Sadly, “Spyfall” was too big a high to slowly descend from.

You think the minute after we left the Fam, they knocked Graham down and kicked him for getting them into that mess? Reminds me of Rick yelling at Morty to stay in the damn ship.

[gonzosgirrl]

I'm a pretty easy going fan, but that was... not good. I don't mind a little lecturing, because we are doing a shit job of taking care of the planet, but this was way too anvilicious. The opening scene was the best part of the episode, but by the climax I was kind of rooting for the monster. Both mom and daughter were the worst.

[Rhetorica]

17 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

The hand . . . so heavy . . .

I’m not declaring this to be the nadir of the series. I’m not saying this was the episode when the Doctor slapped a saddle on the jumping shark. But even if you take past stories into account where how humanity would leave Earth (“The Ark in Space,” for instance), it still felt preachy.

 

It didn't feel preachy, it WAS preachy. The Doctor actually delivered a sermon to humanity at the end. Apparantly, Chibnall thinks his audience is that dense and has to be told what they just saw. 

[DanaK]

I thought this was pretty good and enjoyable overall, particularly for a “base under siege” episode, though it was a bit ragged in places. I can see this is already a polarizing episode though, especially for the ending. Ed Hime writes weird stuff for sure. It definitely was several steps down from Spyfall, but I expected that following a huge season premiere

I thought Jodie did well and it was good to see the team again call the Doctor out on her mood. I enjoyed most of the funny lines and bits. As usual, the Doctor barges in to take charge and bark orders, though she and Kane clashed. I found the Dregs creepy, but not the scariest things ever. But as I said, I did get spoiled after the UK broadcast

I suspect the Russian didn’t get translated, nor the Dregs’s speech, because the Tardis wasn’t there. The team was teleported away from it. Or does it work regardless of the distance?

Of course, it might be a good idea in the future for Graham to better check out a spa offer

The Doctor’s speech at the end didn’t bother me because she was speaking to her friends and trying to help them not despair and helping them to understand the future can be changed and how

The actress playing the old lady is supposedly pretty well known and respected but I can check further on that

[CatWarmer]

1 hour ago, Terrafamilia said:

If the oxygen level was 1% what was burning in the tunnel and how?

I wondered about that too but maybe it’s because that’s where the Dregs hibernated and they exhaled oxygen in their sleep?

I was just waiting for someone to find the Statue of Liberty sticking up out of the sand.

Lots of red shirts in this one!  

[phalange]

Considering there’s a whole entire country currently on fire I’d say this was just the right amount of “preachy.” 

I laughed when the Doctor told Kane “if I had crayons and half a can of spam I could build you from scratch.” I love when the Doctor gets snarky.

I didn’t have a problem with the sign not being translated. I always assumed the TARDIS translates spoken language but not necessarily written. 

[Starchild]

1 hour ago, Rhetorica said:

It didn't feel preachy, it WAS preachy. The Doctor actually delivered a sermon to humanity at the end. Apparantly, Chibnall thinks his audience is that dense and has to be told what they just saw. 

This is, first and foremost, a kid's show, right? Sometimes you don't want to be subtle.

[DanaK]

26 minutes ago, phalange said:

I didn’t have a problem with the sign not being translated. I always assumed the TARDIS translates spoken language but not necessarily written. 

I think that’s been an issue that’s been raised numerous times before; some fans have said it just takes longer. How much reach does the Tardis have in terms of being separated from the Doctor?

Really liked Jodie’s sweater and her gloves. Made for a nice change of outfit

Good to see the Doctor was affected by the low oxygen levels after a point. Time Lords may have an advantage, but they aren’t completely immune to low/no oxygen issues

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by DanaK

[futurechemist]

As long as we have global leaders who refuse to acknowledge the mere existence of climate change, I will not fault a TV show for being "too preachy".

The episode felt disjointed though.  The Dregs were intelligent enough to understand symbiosis and respiration, but there weren't any other attempts at communication.  Usually they just killed people, but they toyed with Benni and maybe also Kane.

The show also missed an opportunity to compare the companions seeing a destroyed Earth with the Doctor seeing a destroyed Gallifrey last episode.  A pet peeve of mine is shows where the main characters keep secrets from each other despite how close they are to each other purely for dramatic contrivance rather than an sort of characterization.

My interpretation of the end was that Bella was sucking her thumb to indicate that she was hallucinating Kane being there in order to come to terms with her mother in her last moments before being killed by the Dregs.  But then Graham mentioned Kane so ... I got nothing.

[DanaK]

Some media reviews:

The Guardian (positive) https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/jan/12/doctor-who-recap-series-38-episode-three-orphan-55

The Independent (positive, but rather cheeky about it) https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/reviews/doctor-who-orphan-55-episode-3-review-jodie-whittaker-a9277976.html

[QuantumMechanic]

1 hour ago, futurechemist said:

As long as we have global leaders who refuse to acknowledge the mere existence of climate change, I will not fault a TV show for being "too preachy".

I will — it makes for crap TV.

Talking about what an orphan planet was, and then us finding out that one was Earth? Fine and a nice if not original twist (the apes say “hi”). And one that makes the eco-point.

Having Whitaker practically break the 4th wall to literally lecture to the audience? Crap TV.

Anvil-dropping is boring, patronizing, and unentertaining. Professional writers should be able to get their point across without resorting to the triteness of anvils. If they can’t, they should look for another line of work.

Edited January 13, 2020 by QuantumMechanic

[PWHCHCH]

I thought the whole episode was going to turn out to be one big hallucination by Ryan brought on by the attacking Vending Machine. 

[AnimeMania]

5 hours ago, DanaK said:

Good to see the Doctor was affected by the low oxygen levels after a point. Time Lords may have an advantage, but they aren’t completely immune to low/no oxygen issues

We have seen The Doctor hold his/her breath for a long time out in the vacuum of space. Why did The Doctor's oxygen run out first? 

Came to mention the fires burning, but many people beat me to it.

Why was the person that released the Hopper Virus, the first person to get infected by the Hopper Virus? Who gave her the cure? 

The underground tunnels had a locked hatch, yet only Kane had the entry code. Why did Kane tell them to go to the hatch and she would stay there and fight the Dregs?

How was Bella supposed to escape the resort after she finished murdering everybody?

What exactly did the Dregs eat when they didn't have access to the vacationers?

Hey, that looks like the little kid from "His Dark Materials", of course his father is an idiot.

Let's base a character on the two most annoying things in the universe, the "Cats" movie and "Gamer" names.

Why were they short on oxygen masks, since half of the resort guests had already been eaten?

The only thing that would have saved this boring episode would been if they had a scene where they shot Benni's oxygen tank and the explosion killed a large number of Dregs. "Dey blowed up real good!"

[AudienceofOne]

On 1/12/2020 at 8:23 PM, Lantern7 said:

I’m not declaring this to be the nadir of the series.

The. moon. is. an. egg. 

 

On 1/12/2020 at 11:25 PM, futurechemist said:

As long as we have global leaders who refuse to acknowledge the mere existence of climate change, I will not fault a TV show for being "too preachy".

The preachiness wasn't my problem either. Honestly, the planet is burning to the fucking ground around us and if metaphor wasn't working I'll settle for a good old lecture.

This episode was a mess though. My least favourite part was the Doctor demanding people do things and then screaming at them because they did them. If you didn't want to be taken into the territory of an apex predator, you probably shouldn't have yelled at someone until they took you. 

[Chaos Theory]

i was debating not even coming here for this episode because it is actually obvious how people would react to this episode but the I realized that this has always kinda been the kind of science fiction I enjoy.   The “it’s ultimately up to us how the future will turn out”.   It’s not the first time Doctor Who played this game.  Heck even Star Trek TOS had the Voyage Home where they traveled back in time to grab a couple of gone extinct whales.   And my personal favorite Planet of the Apes final scene.

 

So anyone complaining about the global warming and war causing an orphan planet....it’s science fiction telling a possible end to earth.  That’s what science fiction does.

[libgirl2]

12 hours ago, DanaK said:

The actress playing the old lady is supposedly pretty well known and respected but I can check further on that

I thought she looked familiar and looked her up. She was in quite a few movies int he 60s including Alfie. 

[hnygrl]

Can't say I was enjoying this one but it was less awful than the other episodes. That is. Until.

We're on Earth

They're what's left of humanity

and the icing on the cake, the death knell of this stupid season....(drum roll please)...

Global. Warming.

KMN

[libgirl2]

8 hours ago, GSManiac said:

I thought the whole episode was going to turn out to be one big hallucination by Ryan brought on by the attacking Vending Machine. 

I actually liked that part. Overall, I thought it was a fairly okay episode. Yes, it got preachy at the end. I don't think we needed that. 

[Keely]

10 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

So anyone complaining about the global warming and war causing an orphan planet....it’s science fiction telling a possible end to earth.  That’s what science fiction does.

Yes, it does do that. But. Good science fiction also makes you think. It can challenge ideas and make you reconsider the world around you. Good speculative sci-fi transcends sci-fi to influence through modern culture and thinking - Asimov's fiction on robots and AI for example.

I don't expect DW to be at Asimov's level, but I do expect it to have a far more deft touch. The writing here won't provoke any real conversation on climate change. The only new idea it presented was the possibility that we'll all turn into carbon breathing monsters if we don't change. (Story aside, science doesn't work like that, but I digress...)

Scaring people into change might work. If it does, I'm all for it. Unfortunately, when the DW audience is, for the most part, rolling their eyes and turned off by the sledgehammers, I'd hazard a guess it's dang sure not going to reach the people who most need to hear it.

[gonzosgirrl]

I did enjoy the psychic paper ID changing until she got to something Hyphen accepted, lol.

[AnimeMania]

33 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I did enjoy the psychic paper ID changing until she got to something Hyphen accepted, lol.

Typically the psychic paper doesn't work that way, you don't tell people what to see, they tell you what they see that makes them believe you have the authority to tell them to do what you just asked them to do.

[Joe Hellandback]

7 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

We have seen The Doctor hold his/her breath for a long time out in the vacuum of space. Why did The Doctor's oxygen run out first? 

Came to mention the fires burning, but many people beat me to it.

Why was the person that released the Hopper Virus, the first person to get infected by the Hopper Virus? Who gave her the cure? 

The underground tunnels had a locked hatch, yet only Kane had the entry code. Why did Kane tell them to go to the hatch and she would stay there and fight the Dregs?

How was Bella supposed to escape the resort after she finished murdering everybody?

What exactly did the Dregs eat when they didn't have access to the vacationers?

Hey, that looks like the little kid from "His Dark Materials", of course his father is an idiot.

Let's base a character on the two most annoying things in the universe, the "Cats" movie and "Gamer" names.

Why were they short on oxygen masks, since half of the resort guests had already been eaten?

The only thing that would have saved this boring episode would been if they had a scene where they shot Benni's oxygen tank and the explosion killed a large number of Dregs. "Dey blowed up real good!"

Well we saw that the planet had vegetation which meant the earth was actually renewing itself so presumably there were other creatures for them to prey on too?

The doc was talking so therefore using up her oxygen faster. As for the fire perhaps it was some form of chemical blaze and brought its' own oxygen?

[Eulipian 5k]

So this episode basically took the spa Donna Noble went to and plopped it down in the middle of Planet Midnight.  As Graham would shout, "Worst Club Med evah!"

After last season's Kerblam delivery, the Kassavans last week, and now the Tranquility teleporting coupons, the TARDIS doesn't seem to be a safe haven as it once was; any body can just barge in. Maybe this Doctor needs to go to the Siege Mode TARDIS.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

5 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

So anyone complaining about the global warming and war causing an orphan planet....it’s science fiction telling a possible end to earth.  That’s what science fiction does.

Telling about a possible end to earth isn't a problem.  Telling about a possible end to earth in a crappy, hamfisted, bereft of craft, patronizing way is.  How about the writers use some of their alleged writing skills to do (gasp!) a good job at telling us?

Just because some message is admirable doesn't excuse massively botching the execution of delivering the message.

Is it too much to ask for provocative, interesting, thoughtful delivery instead of paint-by-numbers zero-effort anvil-dropping?

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by QuantumMechanic

[Prower]

18 hours ago, DanaK said:

I suspect the Russian didn’t get translated, nor the Dregs’s speech, because the Tardis wasn’t there. The team was teleported away from it. Or does it work regardless of the distance?

It works regardless of distance. Also think about it, it must have been in effect. There is no way that these humans from the far future (if they even were humans) speak present day english.

Plus the doctor speaks Gallifreyen. She might know english, but I think they would have made a point, had she had to use it.

17 hours ago, CatWarmer said:

I wondered about that too but maybe it’s because that’s where the Dregs hibernated and they exhaled oxygen in their sleep?

There was no Oxygen in the tunnel. The doctors Oxygen was running low and the canisters refill themselves in environments with Oxygen. Only possible conclusion: magic fire!

15 hours ago, futurechemist said:

As long as we have global leaders who refuse to acknowledge the mere existence of climate change, I will not fault a TV show for being "too preachy".

Yes, I'm sure Doctor Who will change their minds...

15 hours ago, futurechemist said:

The show also missed an opportunity to compare the companions seeing a destroyed Earth with the Doctor seeing a destroyed Gallifrey last episode.  A pet peeve of mine is shows where the main characters keep secrets from each other despite how close they are to each other purely for dramatic contrivance rather than an sort of characterization.

I thought that's where the whole thing was going as well. Instead we got the stupid sermon in the Tardis at the end. They had a golden opportunity and they squandared it in the worst way. These really are the worst writers on television.

6 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

So anyone complaining about the global warming and war causing an orphan planet....it’s science fiction telling a possible end to earth.  That’s what science fiction does.

I don't tink anybody is complaining about that part. I am complaining about the part where it doesn't fit with what we've seen of earth's future. You could have done it on any alien planet out there and if written well (and I suspect here lies the problem) it wouldn't have lost any of its impact.

The speach at the end was just unecessary, bad, and prevented a better story from being told. All in the name of preaching to the choir.

2 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

After last season's Kerblam delivery, the Kassavans last week, and now the Tranquility teleporting coupons, the TARDIS doesn't seem to be a safe haven as it once was; any body can just barge in. Maybe this Doctor needs to go to the Siege Mode TARDIS.

Just raising the shields might help... Usually they should always be raised, but I guess this doctor just forgot... (or these writers don't know shit about DW)

Edited January 13, 2020 by Prower

[Llywela]

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I did enjoy the psychic paper ID changing until she got to something Hyphen accepted, lol.

Excuse you, that's Hyph3n. 😉

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, Llywela said:

Excuse you, that's Hyph3n. 😉

My apol0gies.

:)

[DanaK]

I appreciate that Kane was trying to terraform the planet and bring it back to life and of course, getting rich people to pitch in their money isn't a bad thing either. But, she was very, very wrong to drag in vacationers without telling them the real risks (assuming she hadn't already and that it was just Graham who didn't read the fine print); at least the Doctor called her out on that. The Tardis team was also stupid in agreeing to go on the vacation in the first place without looking into it first; maybe they assumed Graham already had. But all that was cut short when Graham accidentally put the teleport cube together and whisked them away

[Bruinsfan]

I know I've seen the TARDIS continue to translate for companions after they've been teleported vast distances away from it in the past, but if its telepathic translation is working like that it should also have translated the roars of a sentient human ancestor species. It's managed for considerably stranger and more distant things, hasn't it? I also would have thought the Doctor would be able to understand the Dregs and likely speak their language whether or not the TARDIS was doing its job—I believe it's been a plot point  of note when one of her past versions wasn't able to automatically understand some form of communication.

[AudienceofOne]

Also the Doctor doesn't rely on the TARDIS, the Doctor actually speaks English and, as far as I'm aware, all Earth languages. She doesn't need the TARDIS for that kind of translation; it's more for her companions and for situations where she's on an unknown planet or comes into contact with a completely unknown species.

But, honestly, despite being guilty of it myself, getting angry at Doctor Who for going against its own mythology and canon is like yelling at the wind for changing direction. The show has lasted so long by not caring about its own mythology. And, yes, that's bad writing but that ship sailed when they decided the 6th Doctor actually knew Rassillon or possibly was Rassillon idk, it was stupid and it broke their canon and that was in the 80s.

[Prower]

1 hour ago, Bruinsfan said:

I believe it's been a plot point  of note when one of her past versions wasn't able to automatically understand some form of communication.

It has, but because the Tardis can translate pretty much anything, not because the Doctor herself can speak all the languages.

10 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

Also the Doctor doesn't rely on the TARDIS, the Doctor actually speaks English and, as far as I'm aware, all Earth languages. She doesn't need the TARDIS for that kind of translation; it's more for her companions and for situations where she's on an unknown planet or comes into contact with a completely unknown species.

Was it ever actually stated anywhere that the Doctor speaks english and most earth languages or is that just your head canon?

10 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

But, honestly, despite being guilty of it myself, getting angry at Doctor Who for going against its own mythology and canon is like yelling at the wind for changing direction. The show has lasted so long by not caring about its own mythology. And, yes, that's bad writing but that ship sailed when they decided the 6th Doctor actually knew Rassillon or possibly was Rassillon idk, it was stupid and it broke their canon and that was in the 80s.

Yeah, but nowadays we expect a bit better from TV than back then.

But honestly, I would have no problem overlooking it, if it was in service of a better story. But as it is, it's annoying as all hell that they would break continutiy for such dreck.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Prower

[AudienceofOne]

13 minutes ago, Prower said:

Was it ever actually stated anywhere that the Doctor speaks english and most earth languages or is that just your head canon?

I have no mental delineation between the original and Nuwho really (except in cases where their break from canon in Nuwho confuses and annoys me - i.e. knocking about 1000 years off the Doctor's age in the first series and Moffatt deliberately forgetting that Timelords recognise each other at all times in every regeneration) so could I point to something in Nuwho? I don't know. But this is actual canon. He speaks many languages himself, including all Earth languages. And he has, on at least one occasion when the TARDIS was broken or something, communicated in those languages without it. But I couldn't tell you when. Pretty sure it was NuWho but can't be sure.

[Chaos Theory]

I had a whole big post but I think I broke rules on discussing politics so I broke it down to the bare bones.    Mostly that I don't think this show has ever been subtle about anything.   I also don't think most people cared until a female Doctor which suddenly made people hyper aware of everything she says and does.   If Ten or Eleven talked about global warming it probably would have been shrugged off but the 13th Doctor has everyone picking apart every sentence and facial expression like it means something.     

That all being said I think the show needs to back away from too many message episode and go back to adventure episodes which is where I always felt the show was at its best.  Which is why I am looking forward to whatever is going with the Doctor's planet because it will get the writers away from their own inclination of writing too many message episodes which doesn't do the show too many favors especially now with everyone picking apart the show like never before.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Chaos Theory

[angora]

1 hour ago, AudienceofOne said:

I have no mental delineation between the original and Nuwho really (except in cases where their break from canon in Nuwho confuses and annoys me - i.e. knocking about 1000 years off the Doctor's age in the first series and Moffatt deliberately forgetting that Timelords recognise each other at all times in every regeneration) so could I point to something in Nuwho? I don't know. But this is actual canon. He speaks many languages himself, including all Earth languages. And he has, on at least one occasion when the TARDIS was broken or something, communicated in those languages without it. But I couldn't tell you when. Pretty sure it was NuWho but can't be sure.

It's never been outright stated how many languages the Doctor speaks, but there have certainly been indicators that it's a lot, Earth languages and otherwise. While the companions from Earth hear most stuff translated into English via the TARDIS, we've gotten references that the Doctor hears (or at least recognizes) the languages being spoken - in "The Girl in the Fireplace," Ten says (paraphrased,) "She was speaking French, right period too." We also hear Ten speaking Judoon and the language of those fly things in "Planet of the Dead." Moffat's era emphasizes that the Doctor speaks horse, dinosaur, and baby (although not British Sign Language apparently, nor does the TARDIS translate it :still bitter:), and we see Eleven communicate with/translate for growly beast creatures like the Krafayis in "Vincent and the Doctor" and the Minotaur in "The God Complex."

Just an okay episode for me. It felt like a draft, like something that could've been a lot better with more polish. There was some really fun stuff (I got a kick out the Hopper virus) and some great lines (loved, "If I had crayons and half a can of spam, I could make YOU from scratch!"), but there was too much that didn't fully hang together and left me scratching my head.

It would've been nice to get a reveal that Bella hadn't known about the Dregs and was horrified at the carnage they caused. It might have even made her more determined to go through with her plan of blowing up the hotel once everyone was evacuated, like "or else it was all for nothing" or something. Also, an acknowledgement from SOMEBODY that Bella was obviously struggling with her mental health if "blow up a hotel" was her response to feeling abandoned/forgotten by her mother. I think both of those could've gone a long way toward making that plot development feel less WTF.

It took me most of the episode to recognize that Kane was played by Laura Fraser. I loved Neverwhere!

[Keely]

16 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I had a whole big post but I think I broke rules on discussing politics so I broke it down to the bare bones.    Mostly that I don't think this show has ever been subtle about anything.   I also don't think most people cared until a female Doctor which suddenly made people hyper aware of everything she says and does.   If Ten or Eleven talked about global warming it probably would have been shrugged off but the 13th Doctor has everyone picking apart every sentence and facial expression like it means something.     

That all being said I think the show needs to back away from too many message episode and go back to adventure episodes which is where I always felt the show was at its best.  Which is why I am looking forward to whatever is going with the Doctor's planet because it will get the writers away from their own inclination of writing too many message episodes which doesn't do the show too many favors especially now with everyone picking apart the show like never before.

Well, now that you mention it, you are sort of right. A female doctor is making a difference here. A huge one. Were the doctor a man right now I would be excoriating the show on multiple points and very close to giving it a miss until a new show runner took over. I hate that I have to admit that. It makes me feel dirty, but it's true.

The writing is abysmal and has been since Chris took over. Even the strongest episodes have had multiple issues. The show itself is a mess, there are too many companions on screen, they've not fleshed out this iteration of the doctor, forget the companions who are mostly just there for props, the pacing is abysmal, the writing uneven, properly wrapping up an episode is a foreign concept more often than not, they aren't even trying to hand wave the issues as timey wimey, the science is particularly bad (if you can call it science at this point), for every old detail they delight me with by bringing back, they kill me with the lack of basic effort on a dozen other details. 

Where the hell is the show bible? Seriously. They don't have to marry the past mythos, but I expect them to make a basic effort. This week's episode does not work within the universe of Doctor Who. At all. That is not how timelines work here. We already know how humanity ends and a boatload of other details about humanity and Earth's timeline. This all but resets the entire universe, but frankly, it doesn't deserve to reset it - I don't believe it's a reset to do something new so much as a lack of real knowledge about the universe at large. 

I never thought I'd say this, but I'm missing Moffat. For all his flaws, he at least loved the show. When the fans called him on the delayed Tardis translations he admitted he screwed up. Most of all, he'd written for sci-fi before. None of the writers brought in for Jodi's run has and frankly, they are proving that a pre-existing, extensive universe may not be the place to toss newbies to the genre into. 

And that is just the tip of the iceberg on my thoughts about the show. I just keep setting those thoughts aside because first!female!doctor. Ugh. I need to go shower now. Oh and most of all? I'm still waiting for her to get proper angry.