S05.E00: Crisis On Infinite Earths Part Five

[scarynikki12]

Quote

Worlds lived, worlds died.  Nothing will ever be the same.

 

 

[scarynikki12]

Things to remember when you post:

All opinions and reactions to the episode are valid, referencing the rest of the crossover is fine but the focus of your posts must remain on Part 5, and it's better to scroll past a post you disagree with than start a fight.

Remember Primetimer's Be Civil policy.

[scarynikki12]

I never should have doubted my LOT. They did so right by Sara, Sara/Barry bonding, Sara/Oliver friendship, and Captain Sara. Everything I wanted.

BABY SARA LIVES AGAIN!! Please be in the next spinoff. Pleeeeeease! 

BEEBO!!!!! Sara protecting his good name! You wonderful blue fluff never leave us. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

I'm surprised that we didn't see Felicity.  I was sure the actress would show up.

Not sure how I feel about the super friends all being on the same earth.  I mean, do they split it up into territories.  Do they quarrel?  "Hey, hands off Grodd, he's mine!" from Barry and Supergirl/Man fighting over who gets to take down Lex?

But yay for Beebo, Rory and Ray.

[Featherhat]

Beebo is the one blue god!

I've got nothing else right now. And not in a good or a bad way.

[TV Anonymous]

Finally TPTB solved the problem caused by Supergirl being on CBS four years later.

Is this an indication that Green Lantern is on the horizon? Stargirl is coming, I believe. And I am happy to see Swamp Thing, Titans and Doom Patrol. Would be great if the had Gotham also.

[shantown]

Does Lex still have a page from the Book of Destiny? How is it the only changes are that the CW Earths are one Earth now, and Lex Luthor is a good guy? This was five hours of hullabaloo for not a whole lot of payoff.

[mtlchick]

I still can't get into LOT, but at least this episode gave us SOMETHING (ok a few things)

1) the establishment of the Justice League/Super Friends (and GLEEK!  Wonder Twins has to happen, right?)

2) Doom Patrol and Green Lantern Corps exist.

3) BABY. SARA.  At last, one retcon that finally got reversed and I can deal with! 

 

But man, in terms of the overall event, it was certainly underwhelming.  And still leaves things sort of confusing.  So what do we have now, a slimmed down multiverse with all the heroes on the same Earth?  

 

[Primal Slayer]

Good Sara episode....but they went overboard with the Legend-ness. Should've spent more time defining this new world than making "this is a crossover" jokes. The event took such a wackier tone that it threw things off more than they already were.

They always go over the top with honoring dead heroes, their deaths aren't made better by these grand gestures of outting them to world. For writers that are fans of Buffy.. they didn't learn much.

[Featherhat]

3 minutes ago, TV Anonymous said:

Finally TPTB solved the problem caused by Supergirl being on CBS four years later.

Is this an indication that Green Lantern is on the horizon? Stargirl is coming, I believe. And I am happy to see Swamp Thing, Titans and Doom Patrol. Would be great if the had Gotham also.

Green Lantern is coming to HBO Max, also by Berlanti prods.

[Featherhat]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

Good Sara episode....but they went overboard with the Legend-ness. Should've spent more time defining this new world than making "this is a crossover" jokes. The event took such a wackier tone that it threw things off more than they already were.

They always go over the top with honoring dead heroes, their deaths aren't made better by these grand gestures of outting them to world. For writers that are fans of Buffy.. they didn't learn much.

Oliver had already outed himself and most of his team to the world and the show is ending so it made more sense than other times they have done it, both with Oliver and other characters. 

The Legends "this is a crossover" thing is directly related to the "hard pass" on the crossover last season. It got wackier but nothing that wasn't already set up. And they also know how to bring the emotion.

Although in general my overall feeling is just Whelmed. 

 

[quarks]

Yes, that was a total mess and the less said about the production "values" the better and I really don't even want to think about that airplane hanger and, seriously, Oliver merged the CW Earths together but let the other ones go on their merry way WHAT WAS THAT but but BUT DID EVERYONE SEE THAT GREEN LANTERN IS COMING???????????

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Although in general my overall feeling is just Whelmed. 

Same. Although I guess it's a testament to good 'ol MG that he could kill my fave Oliver off twice and leave me feeling absolutely nothing, lol.

[shantown]

19 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

BABY. SARA.  At last, one retcon that finally got reversed and I can deal with!  

SO J'onn gave Diggle his memories back, does that include the original memories of Sara, and the memories that she was erased? Did Lyla get her memories back?

[Oreo2234]

Quote

I never should have doubted my LOT. They did so right by Sara, Sara/Barry bonding, Sara/Oliver friendship, and Captain Sara. Everything I wanted.

BABY SARA LIVES AGAIN!! Please be in the next spinoff. Pleeeeeease! 

Yeah the writing for Sara was really good this episode. She reacted appropriately and in character. Ray was great too and I still don't understand why they are getting rid of him. Brandon Routh is one of the best actors in the arrowverse. 

I also loved that they brought baby Sara back without erasing John Jr.

I hate that just when Alex started finally acting like an authoritative leader she is once again not really in charge of the DEO. Just like last season. It seemed to be implied that Alex got her memory back and I would assume the rest of Team Supergirl too but did Lena? J'onn may have hesitated due to recent conflicts. 

I want to see a Batwoman/Supergirl crossover before the latter ends. Hopefully on Batwoman and at least Kara/Alex are involved. 

I enjoyed it but I think I still liked Crisis on Earth-X better. It felt more cohesive and the action scenes were better. 

[StaceyNotStacie]

This was better than part 4, although it felt a bit rushed towards the end. I admit that I’m not as invested in the whole Arrow story as I don’t watch the show, but it was a nice tribute at the end. I also loved Brandon doing the Superman flyover at the end, although I was wondering if Tyler’s Superman now has both Jonathan and Jason since Lois mentioned that they had sons. 
 

My only dislike was that the Legends outside of Sara, Mick and Ray were more cameo appearances on their own show. 
 

I also wish we could have seen Gleek instead of just getting the reference. That, the visual of the building and seeing Beebo made me smile. 

[ParadoxLost]

That was all very clunky and tonally wrong for the epilogue to COIE. If LOT "requires" that level of wackiness then they shouldn't have picked it for the cross over or placed it earlier in the episodes.

I can't believe how badly they botched the aftermath of Oliver's death and the Earths merging. The only scene that worked was Sara and Barry talking about Oliver.

I find myself in the surprising position that I am annoyed that they formed the Justice League because I never want to see a cross over ever again.  

[scarynikki12]

Baby Sara was returned and is now twins with JJ. They are the children of badasses John and Lyla Diggle. This episode also had a Gleek reference.

I'm just saying we have Wonder Twins right here if they're willing to go there.

[UNOSEZ]

In depth questioning of the logistics behind ppl getting memories of past earths and timelines and multiverse destruction would just be maddening... So I'll just be happy that we got baby Sara back ( I wonder if an older her makes it into the potential spinoff... Some form of JJ will...)  The one Blue God beebo returned and we are all blessed to see him again... Green lantern corps... So I'm good... I'll just assume that as every show comes back.. The principals will be read in via Martian J'onn Brain Sap.. So they'll know everything that has happened in their new reality plus what they missed from the previous ones... Should be some interesting conversations and changes... Also I'm guessing no one will tell James... 

2 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Baby Sara was returned and is now twins with JJ. They are the children of badasses John and Lyla Diggle. This episode also had a Gleek reference.

I'm just saying we have Wonder Twins right here if they're willing to go there.

I'm good with that.. But are they twins? 

[tennisgurl]

I am really going to have to think on my thoughts on the whole crossover, but let me focus on this episode for now, as it was the one that I enjoyed more. 

My LOT writers didnt let me down! It was great seeing some of the gang back again, and of course, the glorious return of Beebo, our great and most mighty god! And when it turned out that a thief was using his imagine, Sara defended his honor! That fluffy ball saved the world sir, show some respect! We also got some really good emotional beats, and I am thrilled that they focused so much on the friendship between Sara and Oliver, one of my favorite relationships in the whole Arrowverse, and how much they cared about each other, weird history and all. And while less dramatic, I have always loved Oliver and Barry, so I was glad to see them also get some moments and how hurt Barry was by his death, even while he was trying to be with Sara. That was a really nice scene, I dont know if we have gotten many moments between Sara and Barry, and the best part of these crossovers is always seeing characters interact who dont normally get to interact. Of course, the scene that totally gutted me was Diggles reaction to Oliver dying twice. Oh man, that just hurt my soul, he was so heartbroken that he "failed" him and that he died without him twice, oh John. 

As much as I love LOT, it did really seem to be tone whiplash going right from Oliver dying to wacky hijinks. I mean, they were partying it up just, like, an hour after Oliver died! As much as I appreciate that they spent time honoring Oliver and his sacrifice, I still dont like this as his ending. Granted it might not be the "real" ending, depending on what happens next with Arrow, but I just hate Oliver dying, and I just cant get behind it. Oliver has spent so many years so terribly hurt and angry and miserable, and truly hated himself so many times, and spent so much time digging himself out of his own dark hole of grief and trauma to become a true hero and grow as a person and make friends and fall in love and be a mentor and become a father, so him dying now, never getting a chance to have a happy life with his family, just seems so cruel. Just give Oliver his happy ending damn it! Has he not been through enough? Watching him die twice just seems so brutal, even if I was glad that at least he got to say goodbye to Sara the second time. 

Ryan and Ray are fun, and I am always happy to see Mick. Jefferson wasnt very much, but his bits were a ton of fun. "The world being in danger doesent happen all that often...right?" I also liked the little bit where Sara gave Ray a big hug, Ray looked so happy, and Sara looked so relieved. I also loved Kara's super happy reaction to seeing Kate, her new bestie. I liked most of the character bits that we got, but it was really weird how so many people weren't around. I mean, the line up walking in unison was way smaller than even Earth X, and this is supposed to be the fight to save the whole multiverse! Where were Cisco and Brainy and Iris and tons of other people that were just not around? For an episode that was about every CW Earth merging, the cast of all this was weirdly small. 

The Justice League forming is pretty cool, even if its increasingly obvious that this is all done to justify using more of the same sets, but one of my big disappointments of all this is that...not much really changed. For a crossover that was supposed to be huge and epic and be about the deaths and births of worlds where nothing would ever be the same, what actually changed here? The CW shows are all on the same Earth now, they have a clubhouse, Oliver is dead (sobbing eternally) Lex is a humanitarian who everyone loves, and some people have more kids now. Really, the thing I am most happy about is the return of Baby Sara! So with Baby Sara now around alongside JJ, how does that change the future we saw in Arrow? Is grown up JJ still a bad guy? Do they still adopt Bronze Kitten? Sorry, back on topic, but its hardly a huge Earth shattering change from the status quo. I mean, the multiverse still exists anyway! Obviously from a meta standpoint that had to happen (its not like shows like Titans and Lucifer could keep going on Earth Prime with these dorks running around) but it all seems like so much hype for something that turned out be be pretty meh. Maybe we will find out more changes as we get more into the shows, but this is all pretty underwhelming, especially after all the hype. Not to be That Fan, but in the comics, Crisis was a HUGE deal, that really did change DC forever, even after the multiverse was brought back. They really did wipe out whole Earths, millions died, including a number of well known characters, everyone from supporting characters to bad guy to B and C listers to huge names like Barry and Kara, people from radically different worlds and continuities were all shoved together, and from the perspective of most everyone (except Psycho Pirate, totally forgotten about here) this is how it always was. And it really did end with an epic battle, basically the big fight from the end of Avengers Endgame, but even bigger, with basically every character in the DC universe from every Earth all fighting the Anti Monitor together to just have a fighting chance that someone might survive, and it all did seem epic and tragic and heroic and it really did change huge amounts of backstory, characters, continuity, and it took years before things kind of went back to normal, and even then, some characters were more or less lost. I know its probably impossible to give us that scope on a TV show, both due to budget and fear of changing things too much to alienate viewers and risk freaking people out by changing too much or having to write actors out, but I wanted something more than this! A toussle with a dozen heroes and one guy and his dementors on a roof and a quarry!

So, what happened to the Monitor?

I did enjoy seeing bits of the multivere still in tact, especially Doom Patrol and the Green Lantern (OMG!!!) stuff, which I am pretty excited about, and even Brandon getting one more shot flying in his Superman outfit. Plus, Gleek! Retro 60s vibes, activate! 

 

[scarynikki12]

5 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

I'm good with that.. But are they twins? 

They didn't say but I'm assuming since people for years have been pointing out that that was the better choice than erasing Sara for a post-Flashpoint Arrow.

[Jediknight]

Kara's just one big happy dork, and it's incredible.  Her excitement at seeing Kate, and then when Barry was unveiling the table.  Never change, Kara.

Kate was kicking it with the Danvers Sisters at the end, love it.  Ruby Rose has more chemistry with Melissa Benoist, than she does with the Batwoman cast.

Good to see that Mick being a good author wasn't retconned with this.  And the fans still love him.

Praise Beebo.

[scarynikki12]

10 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I mean, the line up walking in unison was way smaller than even Earth X, and this is supposed to be the fight to save the whole multiverse! Where were Cisco and Brainy and Iris and tons of other people that were just not around? For an episode that was about every CW Earth merging, the cast of all this was weirdly small. 

The Justice League forming is pretty cool,

This is the reason. They aren't going to form their Justice League with every character from every show. We'll no doubt see them bring in the other characters when necessary, like how the comics rotate characters in and out depending on the story, but they aren't meant to sit at the table so they weren't there. Plus I think it may imply that the absent characters didn't get their memories restored, yet or at all, so being present would be confusing for them. Mainly, though, it's due to the forming of the Justice League.

I agree that it would have been great to see all the characters fighting the Anti-Monitor through time, but that was also LOT's season 1 finale so maybe they felt it was repetitive? Or didn't want to remind people of it since they bag on season 1 when it comes up. I don't know but I would have liked to see it.

Right now it looks like the Green Arrow chair is meant to be an Elijah type deal but I really hope we see Mia sitting in it one day, having been called into the fight by her Auntie Sara.

[Lantern7]

Well, Legends of Tomorrow returns to its proper place in the Arrowverse (Flashverse?): holding the final part of the massive crossover. That would have been the case last time with "Elseworlds," but Constantine had to try and save his lover, and we wound up with Puppet Legends. Good times.

So, apparently, this isn't like the COIE comic, in the sense that there's still a multiverse. Those Earths are populated by DC's subscription shows. Also, seeing Earth-12 . . . how hilarious would it be if the DCEU wasn't in the new paradigm, but the Green Lantern movie was? It was like Charlie Brown's Christmas tree . . . it just needed love and attention. Now? It's a punchline.

And it wouldn't be a LoT episode without everyone pausing on freaking about about the status quo in order to deal with a rampaging Beebo. I feel bad for viewers who never watched LoT, because Beebo must be the biggest headache to deal with. But it turned out to be a distraction from Sargon the Sorcerer. Because why not?

I reckon Earth-Prime can work . . . as long as you can accept a Lex Luthor running the DEO and being popular. And Freeland, period. I mean, Jefferson Pierce probably needed "super friends" more than anyone involved. Imagine the Paragons hearing about Freeland. "Oh, that's the city down South where the military has closed the borders due to central European invaders, and the populace gets smacked around on the regular."

Mick not being able to use his flame gun is the new Constantine being unable to smoke. At least he's a famous writer now! And he didn't even need Charlie as a stand-in.

Fun final battle, with Anti-Monitor suffering permanent shrinkage. On the other hand, we get to see people shoot at him. That's about as effective as officers firing at Beebo.

The ending was funny . . . they're not a Justice League. They're Super Friends! And that works so much better, even if they didn't toss in the promise of a blue alien monkey running around. BTW, Wonder Twins is a miniseries currently running under DC Comics' "Wonder Comics" line. Mark Russell does great social commentary there. And I wound up getting this sketch of Gleek from series artist Stephen Byrne at New York Comic Con. Now . . . when does he team up with Grodd?

I'm a happy gleek geek.

[DanaK]

I really enjoyed this. It was funny, sad, and pretty engaging, everything Part 4 wasn’t for me. I didn’t understand some things, but I got the main points and I’m sure things will be explained here. It will be interesting to see how the individual shows handle any changes and after effects

[Bulldog]

Are we suppose to believe that Lex's transformation is sincere?  I thought his little wink at Kara during the press conference was telling us he was pulling some sort of con.  

[tennisgurl]

11 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Mainly, though, it's due to the forming of the Justice League.

I will be interested to see where the Justice League goes from here, and how it will affect the shows. Will we get more crossovers? Episodes where the whole or parts of the League gets together? Will they all show up in each others shows more often, and thats why all this happened? This is more or less what I expected would happen by the end of this crossover (all the main shows on one Earth together) but I kind of expected a bit more drama on the way there. I guess if thats the one thing we really get out of all this, thats something I can get behind. I wonder if they will end up moving to a satellite that also coincidentally looks like a warehouse?!

I feel like Oliver dying needed more, despite him dying twice. I dont know how to feel, beside sad that this is how his character ends up. At least for now.

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

Oliver had already outed himself and most of his team to the world and the show is ending so it made more sense than other times they have done it, both with Oliver and other characters. 

The Legends "this is a crossover" thing is directly related to the "hard pass" on the crossover last season. It got wackier but nothing that wasn't already set up. And they also know how to bring the emotion.

Although in general my overall feeling is just Whelmed. 

 

It's one thing with new stations picking up the story to the president addressing it. Especially if they go back to ignoring him saving the world once again (though he's dead so...they likely wont...for now)

Yeah it is related to the pass but they joked it into it's grave. They are good with emotion and should've focused on that for majority of the episode. 

Overall this is definitely my 2nd least favorite crossover. If it werent the cameos it'd be lower.

[Cthulhudrew]

20 minutes in and my biggest takeaways are:

1) Does this mean there are 52 versions of Wells on Earth now? 

2) I think I can make a drinking game of "Every time a character mentions a crossover..."

[Primal Slayer]

4 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

20 minutes in and my biggest takeaways are:

1) Does this mean there are 52 versions of Wells on Earth now? 

2) I think I can make a drinking game of "Every time a character mentions a crossover..."

If they continue to bring in new Wells then the crossover was even more useless. Hopefully access between worlds is harder now.

[BaggythePanther]

I find it amusing that by bringing all the CW heroes together on one Earth Oliver created a proper Arrowverse. 
It didn’t click until later that the two people Marv Wolfman asked for their autographs - Supergirl and Flash - were the characters he killed off in the original COIE comic. I’m glad Kara didn’t die, but I wish there had been more of a nod to Kara’s fight with the Anti-Monitor.

I’m glad Sara was in charge throughout the episode. I was afraid they’d try to have Barry take charge in Oliver’s absence, but with Oliver gone Sara is the next best option for leader. I hope she’s leading in crossovers from now on (assuming the Legends are involved).

I’d love to know the new history of Earth-Prime. Though I doubt the writers have given it too much thought.

Did Diggle say Beebo has a TV show?

Edited January 15, 2020 by BaggythePanther

[Lantern7]

2 minutes ago, BaggythePanther said:

It didn’t click until later that the two people Marv Wolfman asked for their autographs-Supergirl and Flash - were the characters he killed off in the original COIE comic.

That did not even occur to me. Epic geek fail for me.

[Featherhat]

32 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

It's one thing with new stations picking up the story to the president addressing it. Especially if they go back to ignoring him saving the world once again (though he's dead so...they likely wont...for now)

Yeah it is related to the pass but they joked it into it's grave. They are good with emotion and should've focused on that for majority of the episode. 

Overall this is definitely my 2nd least favorite crossover. If it werent the cameos it'd be lower.

They had the president addressing the Proto Justice League in Invasion. There are so many other issues I have with it that this is personally just a no brainer. 

All the crossover jokes have got played out, I certainly agree, but I wasn't in the least bit surprised to see so many after everything WRT LOT and the crossover (even though most agree Meaow-Meaow was a great ep). They hammered a point home to prove something.

It certainly isn't my top 3 crossovers but I can't say where it ends up. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Featherhat

[Cthulhudrew]

Okay, done. So there are apparently still multiple Earths (dodged that Wells bullet), but for some reason only the CW Earths were evidently merged. Not a fan of the Lex Luthor "He's the Greatest" stuff though.

I'm still confused on something, so maybe you all can help me out. Two(?) episodes back, we were told that somehow Nash was the one responsible for releasing the Anti-Monitor (in a completely out of left field reveal; I don't think they'd even mentioned the A-M up until then).

But tonight, in Ep. 4, it looked like it was actually Mar-Novu that was responsible for the A-M when he went back in time. But this episode has everyone blaming Nash again.

So unless the rest of you have an explanation that can help, I'm going to say it was all Barry's fault again with his time travel shenanigans. 😛

[Primal Slayer]

21 minutes ago, BaggythePanther said:

It didn’t click until later that the two people Marv Wolfman asked for their autographs-Supergirl and Flash - were the characters he killed off in the original COIE comic. I’m glad Kara didn’t die, but I wish there had been more of a nod to Kara’s fight with the Anti-Monitor.

 

This was the perfect crossover to kill Kara off in an epic moment and have her come back after reality reset, instead of being erased like in the comics, she'd still be around. She didn't really get to go all out the one time they should've let her.

[Cthulhudrew]

1 hour ago, mtlchick said:

2) Doom Patrol and Green Lantern Corps exist.

3) BABY. SARA.  At last, one retcon that finally got reversed and I can deal with! 

#3 was the best part of the episode. And actually seeing the GLC; maybe we'll see Diggle get the ring for real before the end of Arrow. 🙂

(Come to think of it, that is one missed opportunity in this crossover. We know an alternate version of Digg was a Green Lantern. Couldn't they have managed to bring that one into the mix?)

Edited January 15, 2020 by Cthulhudrew

[Cthulhudrew]

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

Oliver had already outed himself and most of his team to the world and the show is ending so it made more sense than other times they have done it, both with Oliver and other characters. 

Speaking of Oliver, I did find myself wondering (during the President's eulogy) if anyone on Earth-Prime was thinking to themselves "Green Arrow saved the planet? But does that really make up for all those guys he killed a few years back?"

[colorbars]

55 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

Are we suppose to believe that Lex's transformation is sincere?  I thought his little wink at Kara during the press conference was telling us he was pulling some sort of con.  

I assume we're not supposed to think that? Lex turned himself into a paragon, so he still has all of his memories, so I assumed he woke up that morning confused, same as Kara, and is just going with it because things have turned out in his favor. Obviously we'll have to see how it goes on Supergirl, but I think he's still evil. Though he did have that brief moment of what it feels like to be a good guy in part 4, so there might be some conflict or struggle there for a bit, but I doubt it'll be anything huge.

[Cthulhudrew]

Final thought of the evening:

J'onn used his telepathy more in this single episode than I think he has in 5 seasons of Supergirl.

[Featherhat]

 

2 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Speaking of Oliver, I did find myself wondering (during the President's eulogy) if anyone on Earth-Prime was thinking to themselves "Green Arrow saved the planet? But does that really make up for all those guys he killed a few years back?"

Whilst it may come up again in terms of Oliver's own demons all of the JL heroes have had to kill people or let people be killed if they weren't willing to take a villain out. And we've seen that on screen. Oliver may have been the most violent and willing to admit it but the rest (apart from Sara and Mick) would be giant hypocrites. 

[Twilight Man]

55 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

Are we suppose to believe that Lex's transformation is sincere?  I thought his little wink at Kara during the press conference was telling us he was pulling some sort of con.  

Lex was a Paragon like the others, so it is still the same Lex only now he's being told (like the others) that everything is different.   Lex is definitely the master of karma Houdini.

"I'm in charge of WHAT  and I'm about to receive WHAT now????"

Speaking of the Paragons, only they were unaffected by the worlds merging, so ...................

I hate to ruin a tearjerker moment, but BL saying that he never met Oliver should not have been true.  I'm sure that he must have worked with GA at least at some point during this

"We were here all along" merged Earth.

Much like Old Man Steve Rogers, I hate to ruin a tearjerker moment, but that technically makes no sense.

 

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

So, apparently, this isn't like the COIE comic, in the sense that there's still a multiverse. Those Earths are populated by DC's subscription shows.

Well, the COIE comic did merge all of the alternate realities together, only to have the DC writers almost immediately start creating new ones.

"So, let's take Blue Beetle, Captain Atom, and The Question who we just acquired and merged into the mainstream comic world, and, despite the fact that we just merged everything into one world so we would no longer have this problem, let's create an alternate reality where NOT Blue Beetle, NOT Captain Atom, and NOT The Question are completely dysfunctional, ............... oh, and Richard Nixon has been the President for, like, forever."

"Clark, will you come home already???   The kids want you."

"My kids???? ................  is definitely something I should not be questioning because I too was not a Parag........"

OK, SERIOUSLY, STOP WITH THE NITPICKING!!!!!

 

[scarynikki12]

I loved this moment so much.

 

[Chyromaniac]

15 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Two(?) episodes back, we were told that somehow Nash was the one responsible for releasing the Anti-Monitor (in a completely out of left field reveal; I don't think they'd even mentioned the A-M up until then).

But tonight, in Ep. 4, it looked like it was actually Mar-Novu that was responsible for the A-M when he went back in time. But this episode has everyone blaming Nash again.

Here’s what I took away - the A-M initially came into play during Mar’s time travel experiment.  However, at some point he was contained in that vault on E1, until Nash opened it setting off the Crisis.  I don’t know if we ever got any explanation on how A-M came to be locked away, or why Nash was so eager to try and destroy Mar.

In any case, I feel like I wanted more exploration of the fallout of the new merged universe - but I guess they’re saving that for next week’s shows.  It also would have been nice to get a better idea of how A-M survived the fight last episode- as it is, it just seemed tacked on for the sake of having one last dodgy CGI fight.  I’m also trying hard not to feel like it cheapened Ollie’s sacrifice - but it’s not entirely working so far.

[bettername2come]

I was so excited when John said "I'm never letting my child watch that show again" in regard to Beebo's appearance since I knew it meant Sara Diggle was back or he wouldn't have used a gender neutral term. Then I yelled when JJ was there, but both! I've been wanting him to have twins since rumors swirled about Flashpoint. I cheered harder for that than I did for Ezra Miller or Beebo.

I loved that Sara defended Beebo's good name. I liked how Rene and Dinah were used. I loved Rene called J'Onn "Martian J'Onn" for clarification. Ray is just delightful, per usual. 

This was my favorite episode of the crossover, even though it was missing some important things: Oliver, Cisco, Iris, Felicity...Seriously, I was deprived of not having Cisco interact with the brain squad, especially Kevin Tran Ryan Choi. 

Sara and Barry bonding was long overdue and beautiful. Seriously, she didn't know about his dead parents? Most people find out within a day of meeting him. 

I would've preferred for Lois and Clark to only have one kid. And I am not happy about the fact that we have no confirmation on Smallville Lois and Clark and their girls living. But I'm choosing to believe Brandon Routh Clark is living his best life with Courtney Ford Lois and their son Jason.

43 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Speaking of Oliver, I did find myself wondering (during the President's eulogy) if anyone on Earth-Prime was thinking to themselves "Green Arrow saved the planet? But does that really make up for all those guys he killed a few years back?"

There's totally a news network asking that very question on Earth Prime right now.

[BkWurm1]

I really liked this finale.  It doesn't make up for how lazy the writing felt for most of the rest of the crossover (too much reliance on cameos and side missions that end up not mattering), but it wrapped up the story in a good way while making me really interested in what happens next on the individual stories.

I didn't find the tonal shift jarring because this was the victory lap.  Kara and the rest were confused but overjoyed that the world and the people were back. Kara lost her planet (again)  so having her city and the people even if she was stuck with Lex Luthor made the general glee from those not impacted directly by Oliver's death make sense to me.  More sense also when we found out that Kara had assumed that Oliver would be alive too.

Sara was wonderful in this episode.  I really hope they keep her as the natural successor in the crossovers to Oliver as the default leader.  I also found it really telling that the only other canary on the episode was sidelined in the Bunker on the coms.  The Arrowverse keeps IMO definitively stating who remains the first and best Canary in this universe.  

I did tear up a few times while Sara was coping with Oliver's loss.  Diggle got to me with his tears but they burned the bridges with Wild Dog and Dinah so theirs felt like crocodile tears.  CL did a very good job showing how much Oliver mattered to her and as her last connection to her old lives.  Lol.  Even though they kind of forgot that her mom is still alive so there would be someone out there that remembered her when she was just plain Sara.  

Barry made me roll my eyes when he just had to remind everyone that his mom and dad were dead so he understood better than Sara what she was going through.  Um,  Sara's dad is dead.  And her sister is dead.  And people from her crew that she felt were like family have died.  I don't think she needs you to explain what loss is like.  

There was one other time when I got tears in my eyes.  That was when Baby (not so baby) Sara showed up.  I'm willing to pretend this was my second favorite crossover (behind EarthX) for that moment alone.  And I do think she was supposed to be JJ's twin (or rather he hers) They were the same height and looked to be the same age.  The twin answer makes it the least disruptive to the past timeline as well.  I'm so happy to have back all those wonderful Baby Sara moments from the earlier season.  She was a rock star and I really mourned losing those bits of history as canon.  Now they are restored!  Baby Sara on the back of the motorbike is back!

 

One thing that I think we'll get from the Arrowverse sharing the same earth is the shows sharing more villains.  I imagine we'll get that kind of crossover more often than the main characters. That could make for some interesting dynamics.   

I'm happy to have BL join the Verse.  I enjoyed his interaction a lot, what little we got.  And We need people to balance out the chipper supers and the dour non powered fighters.  I also enjoyed the little moments like Rory/Rebecca and Killer Flash getting to hang out again. I think he misses ice power people. 

I also appreciated the time they took to honor Oliver even if I still am holding my breath over what his final end will be.  Treat me right show!!!!

 

  

Edited January 15, 2020 by BkWurm1

[scarynikki12]

8 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

One thing that I think we'll get from the Arrowverse sharing the same earth is the shows sharing more villains. 

That would be nice to see. They could even have fun with the villains they'd like to recur managing to escape the hero on show 1, then later show up on show 2 to cause a little chaos, and so on. They can also do small crossovers if one or more characters follow a villain to another show. I want to see Kate and Kara hanging out just cause they're BFF now but they can always have Kate follow Alice to National City or Kara follow Lex to Gotham if they feel they need an actual reason. And Kara must continue to jump with glee at seeing Kate.

[BkWurm1]

34 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I loved this moment so much.

 

One of my favorite moments as well.  And such a contrast after they reminded us just how untrusting and awful Ray once could be.  I love that Ray is now more positive and cheerful than Supergirl and The Flash combined, lol. 

And I absolutely am making it headcanon that Brandon Routh's Superman, the real paragon of Truth, got his world reformed with a happy ending.  That smile at the end gives me the confidence to believe he did.  

Edited January 15, 2020 by BkWurm1

[scarynikki12]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

I love that Ray is more positive and cheerful than Supergirl and The Flash combined, lol. 

Seriously Barry and Kara were giving WTF faces. That's some serious cheer. Of course they've never seen a giant Beebo...

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

And I absolutely am making it head canon that Brandon Routh's Superman, the real paragon of Truth, got his world reformed with a happy ending.  That smile at the end gives me the confidence to believe he did.  

Someone on Twitter pointed out that his S symbol changed colors so I think you're right. Which I guess means that the restored Earths may have experienced some changes as well as Prime. I wonder if they'll play with that on Titans or Doom Patrol or if that's just going to be contained to the CW shows.

[bmoore4026]

ARROWVERSE SUPER FRIENDS!  ARROWVERSE SUPER FRIENDS!  ARROWVERSE SUPERFRIENDS!  And Space Monkey Gleek exists!  Personally, I would have gone with Rex the Wonder Dog, but that's just me.

Superman is a double daddy now.  Oh the hi-jinks that will ensue. 

Didn't like how they got rid of the Anti-Monitor.  I mean, really.  Shrinking him?

Thank God those edgy Titans aren't part of the Arrowverse.  However, seeing a separate Earth for Green Lantern means we're probably never going to get an Arrowverse Hal Jordan.  Or John Stewart.  Or Guy Gardner.  Or Kyle Rayner.  Or Alan Scott (who I think would have been played beautifully by Anthony Michael Hall, personally).  Loved seeing the new Earth 2 (and S.T.R.I.P.E!)  Oh, and Doom Patrol frolicking.

But was Earth X and The Ray brought back?  And the Earth with the 1966 Batman?  If Ray is gone and my campy Batman Earth is gone for good, then I'm going to be one grumpy Gus.

Not going to lie, this should have been the last episode for Arrow but I guess we've got some loose ends to tie up on that show still.

[Primal Slayer]

9 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

And I absolutely am making it headcanon that Brandon Routh's Superman, the real paragon of Truth, got his world reformed with a happy ending.  That smile at the end gives me the confidence to believe he did.  

I fully think that his new reality must have Lois and his son alive again. I can't see him waking up on his Earth and just being encouraged by COIE with how his last moments went.