S01.E02: Penguin One, Us Zero

[stormy weather]

Seen the incredible amount of paper they waste in the GR cult (an entire sheet to write "I remember" and an even bigger one for "she's gone"? Really? Get a portable whiteboard, people) I get why they had Liv Tyler chop down the biggest tree. 

Other than that, Judge Amy is unbearable, nothing in either cult makes sense, unarmed teenagers are slaughtered by the FBI, the Special One has the personality and the charisma of a bookshelf, Wayne is 5 feet tall (or Tom is 7), there are too many plot lines already and still the episode was a total snoozefest from beginning to end. Thank god the bagel was in the toaster, at least that was reassuring.

[shapeshifter]

Maybe Christine is pregnant by Wayne? And Wayne thinks he is a messiah and the baby will be a holy child who will save the world?

Probably. But I would prefer if it turns out he's a eunuch, and it's a twist that would fit with the level of violence we've seen thus far.

[90PercentGravity]

The folks at the GR cult either need to learn how to text or invest in those things where you scribble on the plastic and then lift the sheet to erase it or one of these things.

Edited July 8, 2014 by 90PercentGravity

[Constantinople]

I guess we're supposed to wonder whether Scott Glenn is psychotic or actually hearing the voices of a force that caused the events of the 14th.

 

He was laughing while watching Perfect Strangers, so I'm going with psychotic.

[shapeshifter]

The folks at the GR cult either need to learn how to text or invest in those things where you scribble on the plastic and then lift the sheet to erase it or one of these things.

Good idea. Better yet: http://www.lewiswaynegallery.com/tom-jerry-magic-slate-magician-1985-unused-magic-p-4983.html

[larapu2000]

Good idea. Better yet: http://www.lewiswaynegallery.com/tom-jerry-magic-slate-magician-1985-unused-magic-p-4983.html

Even an Etch-A-Sketch would save them some paper.  And they could make weird culty art with it during craft time.  I'm only assuming they have craft time.  If I was in a cult, I would want some goddamn craft time!

In the book (and I feel I can say this since we're already past this point on the show) the Feds just calmly arrest Wayne because he's a charlatan fucking underage girls. There's no shoot out, there are no dead teens. It makes me wonder what the show's agenda is with that.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure what they're doing there, either.  If they think there is any way that at some point I'm going to sympathize with a character that exploited and sexually abused teenage girls, they obviously don't know that I watch Pretty Little Liars and I am not having it!  

 

I'm hoping they are sending the hot cop's kid on a road trip with the girl in order to reunite him with his father, and that storyline.  Maybe they'll hide her with the White People Cult, but then they'll send her back because she's too boring for even them.

 

We also didn't see Baby Mama this episode.  

Edited July 8, 2014 by larapu2000

[Happytobehere]

I don't know what the point of this show is supposed to be or what it is supposed to be about but thus far I am beyond bored. I even fell asleep on this episode because I couldn't muster the energy to care. Things better start picking up by the next episode or I'm out.

[Shermie]

The white walkers need Magna-Doodles. No ink, no paper, easy to read.

Since Laurie didn't give Meg any instructions for the ax in the woods, I would have loved it if Meg had taken a big lo' swing of frustration at Laurie.

[Tim Thomason]

The entire main cast of Perfect Strangers disappearing, or perhaps just Balki (Bronson Pinchot), Larry (Mark Linn-Baker), and Jennifer (Melanie Wilson), makes stastical sense, if we accept that one lady also had three members of her family coincidentally disappear. It would also explain why Perfect Strangers is airing on TV in the early evening of modern New York (a sense of nostalgia for the strangely departed cast), since it hasn't really aired on TV in our world in some time.
 
The Wayne Cult makes some sense to me, since "hugging cults" have and still do exist. Wayne is a national security threat not because of teenage asian fetish, which was scoffed at by the chief FBI guy, but because he is actively influencing Senators and last week's Congressman, who are being drawn into these cults in the wake of society's upheaval. I really do hope Tom gets reconnected with his Dad, although that won't happen anytime soon, I imagine. The completely botched FBI raid can only be explained by them expecting a strong armed resistance (and probably overzealous and perhaps newly deputized armed officers). I hope its treated in future episodes for the the completely sad failure that it was.
 
I didn't like Amy Brenneman's character using a laptop in one scene. It kinda breaks the mystique of these characters if they are *sometimes* communicating with the outside world. I haven't read the book and I don't know if the big mystery are solved (and *really* don't want to be spoiled on that), but I hope either way, that The Leftovers writing staff has plotted where they're going to go and what the overall arc is. This isn't network TV and there isn't alot of editorial mandate, so I hope there's a better handle on everything and things don't start to flounder at any point.
 
I know Lucy has a thing or something with the Chief's dad, Scott Glenn, but in my view, if the Chief of Police is suspected of murdering several dogs in his spare time (stray or otherwise), that's a good time to impose some paid leave while they investigate. I wonder if Lucy *did* tell Scott Glenn of his son's antics, or if we're supposed to assume that the angels or whatever in Scott Glenn's head told him what's up. I also wonder if they're going to reshoot that scene from the first episode to show a naked Scott Glenn running around.
 
I wonder how the Departure benefit works. Perhaps the government has allocated a certain amount of money to pay to the tens of millions in the US (unsure of the number) for their loss and suffering. Or perhaps these are all life insurance benefits that the companies have agreed to give out (likely with much prodding and government assistance) after a series of questions are asked. The questions are, of course, data mining, which I assume both the government and life insurance companies are asking to prevent this from happening in the future (and everyone wants to know, except for maybe me). The complicated process seems like it would lead to a large waiting list, and I hope the money is worth it. Not a measly $200 or something.
 
I do like the opening dream, because it's slightly realistic with the fantasizing about his daughter's friend (please don't go all American Beauty on me), and then skews into the traumatic experiences he's recently had. I hope that fire was just him smelling his fence being burned, and not a hint at the same psychic power that his dad apparently has.

 

 

 

The white walkers need Magna-Doodles. No ink, no paper, easy to read.

Since Laurie didn't give Meg any instructions for the ax in the woods, I would have loved it if Meg had taken a big lo' swing of frustration at Laurie.

 

Hah, White Walkers. I can imagine Liv Tyler all bloody with the ax, walking back into the Pledge House going "Okay, I passed your test. Can I join now?" and a plate being dropped.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Tim Thomason

[TheodoraK]

Why can't they just text each other? The GRs, I mean. Against technology? No money? This reminds me of The Newsroom, which also took itself much too seriously and was a massive failure when it didn't have to be. And what kind of freaking assholes stalk a woman who lost her whole family? To see if she kills herself? And invade her privacy? There is no one to care about. No one likeable. Were the people just too shell-shocked to take in the dogs when they were abandoned? There had to be some dog lovers who would have at least fostered some of them. This went by really quickly but nothing happened. Tom Perrota's a great writer. So the complete lack of humor and humanity has to be due to Lindelof and i have not forgiven him for Lost as many other have not. Very bad choice of a partner, Tom Perrota. Very very bad.

[Milaxx]

I don't get why it seemed so important that the bagels were stuck in the toaster.

 

That was one plot point that actually made sense. Hot Chief was afraid he was going completely off the deep end, like now his bagels are joining the Departed too? But there they were, all logical and stuff. So he's not as crazy as he thought.

 

I understood that's what the show was trying to tell us. However for me that whole "where's the bagel"  thing  felt a bit try hard. As if the show is trying to be deeper than it needs to be. Did we really need that scene to understand that Hot Chief is beginning to think he losing it? Even with the perfectly logical explanation of what happened to the bagel he could still be nuts or he could be perfectly sane. 

[scrb]

The folks at the GR cult either need to learn how to text or invest in those things where you scribble on the plastic and then lift the sheet to erase it or one of these things.

What's the point, why worry about conservation or health or preserving the environment?

[90PercentGravity]

I wasn't thinking about conservation or the environment, just practicality. It's a lot easier to carry around a small magic slate than it is to carry around a notebook. And texting is way faster.

[gaPeach]

I too was horrified at the gunning down of unarmed teenaged sex slaves.  What was that?  It made no sense unless human rights have been suspended because of the disappearance of the 2%.  No that can't be it.  Must be the bad writing.  At least it gives us something to discuss since the show doesn't offer much else.

 

I don't get the chain smoking, white wearing non talking cult either.  And to be honest it is not that compelling to want to know why they are whatever it is they are.  Stupid fits so I will go with that.  So unless they reveal what the hell that is all about I will consider them Whitewearingchainsmokingnontalking idiots. 

[scrb]

Wayne's cult took all these pains to hide out, blindfolding visitors on the way and so forth.

 

But the authorities decide on a whim to go after him and they shoot up the place?  How would they explain all the bodies?  Not like there was armed resistance like Waco.

[Frisco]

I wanted to like this show, I really did but WTF is going on?  The cult, the dogs, dead guy at gas station?  I think I'll give it one more episode.  LOL

[MissScarlett]

So, if I understand this: 

 

As a result of "the incident", 2 different cults popped up. 

 

Cult One:  The "GR?" is comprised of a bunch of silent people in white who basically preach the "fuck it all" method, smoke like chimneys and cut down trees in a forest to release the tension or whatever.

 

Cult Two:  Has a leader who has super powerful hugs (apparently) and prefers young Asian females to quench his sexual thirst.  He is also not opposed to kissing dead guys or whipping errand boys who flirt with his Asian honeys.  Is he really powerful?  Is he some kind of evil prophet?  Angel of the Lord?  Angel of the Devil?  An alien?

 

Am I missing anything?

 

Despite the snark, I like the premise of the show and am very much interested to see where it goes from here.  The whole town / world(?) is surrounded by this overwhelming cloud of doom.  It's almost as if they go through the motions of life without actually living.  Everyone is trying to make sense of what happened in their own way.  Everything has a dark sense of foreboding -- from the day-to-day, to the teenagers partying and joking around.

 

Obviously, something supernatural-ish is going on.  The question is.... what angle will take?  Aliens?  God?  An Alien God? 

 

So while the bigger questions are left unanswered on purpose, I hope that they answer the smaller ones in the coming episodes.  For example, why did the chief's wife join the GR cult?  Why has the son joined cult number 2 as the errand boy?  Why such a separation from his father?  What did the chief's dad see that drove him crazy?

Edited July 8, 2014 by MissScarlett

[Tim Thomason]

Wayne's cult took all these pains to hide out, blindfolding visitors on the way and so forth.

 

But the authorities decide on a whim to go after him and they shoot up the place?  How would they explain all the bodies?  Not like there was armed resistance like Waco.

 

Well there is one dead agent to be found at the compound, so that should be enough to state there was "armed resistance". I'm sure they were expecting a lot more, but Wayne probably kept them (mostly) unarmed to protect his image in a case like this.

 

Satellite imagery and basic record-keeping probably found this hideout in minutes and the reasons were Wayne being a "national security threat" because of his influence on Congressmen. Now, those said Congressmen will see this for what a blunder it was, and more will join Wayne's cause.

[GaT]

So, if I understand this: 

 

As a result of "the incident", 2 different cults popped up. 

 

Cult One:  The "GR?" is comprised of a bunch of silent people in white who basically preach the "fuck it all" method, smoke like chimneys and cut down trees in a forest to release the tension or whatever.

 

Cult Two:  Has a leader who has super powerful hugs (apparently) and prefers young Asian females to quench his sexual thirst.  He is also not opposed to kissing dead guys or whipping errand boys who flirt with his Asian honeys.  Is he really powerful?  Is he some kind of evil prophet?  Angel of the Lord?  Angel of the Devil?  An alien?

 

Am I missing anything?

 

Despite the snark, I like the premise of the show and am very much interested to see where it goes from here.  The whole town / world(?) is surrounded by this overwhelming cloud of doom.  It's almost as if they go through the motions of life without actually living.  Everyone is trying to make sense of what happened in their own way.  Everything has a dark sense of foreboding -- from the day-to-day, to the teenagers partying and joking around.

 

 

 

What's really annoying to me is that we only that this is happening around this town, what about the rest of the world? Are there branches of the GR everywhere? Is Wayne known worldwide? They're aren't giving us any context, just showing us what's happening in this one small town.

[Blakeston]

While I have some issues with this show, I think a lot of thought has been put into it - and so I don't think they'd show the federal agents blowing people away just for the hell of it. And if it was just about appeasing viewers who want blood and guts, I'd think we'd see Wayne's cronies getting killed, not innocent underage girls.

 

I think they were intentionally showing that since October 14, law enforcement agencies have gone berserk, and they're blowing away the same people they claim they're trying to liberate.
 

The entire main cast of Perfect Strangers disappearing, or perhaps just Balki (Bronson Pinchot), Larry (Mark Linn-Baker), and Jennifer (Melanie Wilson), makes stastical sense, if we accept that one lady also had three members of her family coincidentally disappear.

 
The odds of three specific people all vanishing would be 1 in 125,000. If we're talking about all four cast members, the odds would be over 1 in 6 million. (And I think it would be pretty weird to include Jennifer as a cast member but not Mary Anne.)
 
There would almost certainly be people like Nora out there, who lost their whole families, but they'd be few and far between. And the odds that any reasonably well-known TV show, with a cast of three or more, would have lost everyone would be very slim. If something that freakish happened, I think people like Kevin would have heard about it.
 
My guess is that the writers were amused by the possibility that everyone from Perfect Strangers would have disappeared, but because it was so unlikely, they chose to present it ambiguously.
 

Were the people just too shell-shocked to take in the dogs when they were abandoned?

 
The explanation we were given was that the dogs who actually witnessed someone disappearing became completely feral, and there was no way they'd ever go back to the way they were.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Blakeston

[GaT]

The odds of three specific people all vanishing would be 1 in 125,000. If we're talking about all four cast members, the odds would be over 1 in 6 million. (And I think it would be pretty weird to include Jennifer as a cast member but not Mary Anne.)

 

There would almost certainly be people like Nora out there, who lost their whole families, but they'd be few and far between. And the odds that any reasonably well-known TV show, with a cast of three or more, would have lost everyone would be very slim. If something that freakish happened, I think people like Kevin would have heard about it.

 

My guess is that the writers were amused by the possibility that everyone from Perfect Strangers would have disappeared, but because it was so unlikely, they chose to present it ambiguously.

 

 

I think that some people who "disappeared" on the 14th actually walked away from their lives, or were murdered, so when whole families go missing, I would grain of salt it.

 

It's obvious that whoever took everyone is a Perfect Strangers fan & took the entire cast just so they could continue making the show wherever they are. :-) In fact, this may be the real reason for all the disappearances, they were hiding the casts disappearances in with everyone else.

Edited July 8, 2014 by GaT

[bravelittletoaster]

I think they were intentionally showing that since October 14, law enforcement agencies have gone berserk, and they're blowing away the same people they claim they're trying to liberate.

Yeah that's actually what I meant when I said "what's their agenda here?" I was thinking more along the lines of vaguely right wing propaganda about a govt out of control than appeasing viewers' blood lust. Because there was no dystopian overreaching govt in the book, and personally I roll my eyes pretty hard at shit like that.

[shapeshifter]

How would they explain all the bodies?  Not like there was armed resistance like Waco.

Not enough to warrant the carnage we saw, but:

I think that some people who "disappeared" on the 14th actually walked away from their lives, or were murdered, so when whole families go missing, I would grain of salt it

it would be pretty easy to destroy bodies and claim they "disappeared," plus:

I think they were intentionally showing that since October 14, law enforcement agencies have gone berserk, and they're blowing away the same people they claim they're trying to liberate.

--which is not unheard of in times of war, past and present.

Obviously, something supernatural-ish is going on.  The question is.... what angle will take?  Aliens?  God?  An Alien God?

I hope it's not supernatural. I would really prefer that they disappeared into a parallel universe because someone like Walter on Fringe had an experiment go wrong.

[pandora spocks]

Has a leader who has super powerful hugs (apparently) and prefers young Asian females to quench his sexual thirst.  He is also not opposed to kissing dead guys or whipping errand boys who flirt with his Asian honeys.  Is he really powerful?  Is he some kind of evil prophet?  Angel of the Lord?  Angel of the Devil?  An alien?

 

Wayne is not the name of a cult leader.  That's the name of your server at Cracker Barrel.

[Tryp]

I mostly like it.  I try to keep a mind-set I developed with Lost : this fictional world was made up by some pretty bright and creative people, who are by no means able to make every last detail fit a perfect pattern. So I won't sweat lapses if the overall story seems interesting, buy I will roll my eyes a bit if it becomes obvious that they are straining to show how clever they are.

 

I try to imagine what a realistic response would be to such a catastrophic and supernatural event -- essentially everyone has had their view/ expectation of the way the world works shattered, and the average person has probably lost at least 20 people they know by name.  Piling on top of this, everyone else you know would be grieving their own losses.  I would expect that the first year following would be particulary harrowing -- many people expecting another mass disappearance, desperate seeking of explanations, boatloads of nihilism, suicides.  I would think the civil order would come close to breaking down in the first couple of weeks and the first anniversary would be extremely dangerous, too.  I'd be saying "fuck" a lot for the rest of my life, so I find the mayor's language pretty understandable, even if not up to our world's standards of decorum.

 

A calculation:  if you look at all families of 4, and the disappearances are in fact random, then 92% of families would lose no members, 7.5% would lose one.  0.23% of these families would lose 2 members, 0.003% would lose 3 members and one in every 6 million familes would disappear completely.  Any city of about 100,000 would have a reasonable chance of having a person like Nora, most states would have several small towns with the same.

 

I expect there are many new cults in the Oct 14 world; Wayne's is a small but worrisome one, I expect the GR may be much larger but somehow less threatening to TPTB.  I am somewhat interested in learning their "theology" if it can be done in a way that makes a good story.  OTOH, I find plots that are driven by passive women being unable/ unwilling to communicate to be very frustrating, so I have ambivalent expectations.

 

I am hoping that Tom and Cynthia's journey will be providing us with numerous glimpses of the country at large -- I am totally uninterested in a potential young love story.

[Blakeston]

Yeah that's actually what I meant when I said "what's their agenda here?"

 

I got that. I was responding to the people who suggested that HBO gave the producers notes like "needs more violence."

[Deanie87]

I normally don't care (or notice) about stuff like this, but my God, how many "fucks" does one show need? Nearly every single conversation had at least one character dropping the F-bomb! It's really getting ridiculous and severely distracting.

I kind of felt like they were treating Nora as a Boo Radley type of figure. A person who is, in reality, just a tragic figure, becomes someone to harass for people who haven't learned to have a lot of empathy yet, in some cases (like some teens, clearly not all).

What was up with her dropping the coffee cup on purpose? Just to get sympathy from the waiter? I think there is going to be more to her than meets the eye.

[shapeshifter]

I normally don't care (or notice) about stuff like this, but my God, how many "fucks" does one show need? Nearly every single conversation had at least one character dropping the F-bomb! It's really getting ridiculous and severely distracting.

I think it's an interesting choice, linguistically, but don't actors get paid by the word? I wonder what the budgetary impact for the show is.

What was up with her dropping the coffee cup on purpose? Just to get sympathy from the waiter? I think there is going to be more to her than meets the eye.

It just occurred to me that she didn't have to pay for it after that.

[canter]

What was up with her dropping the coffee cup on purpose? Just to get sympathy from the waiter? I think there is going to be more to her than meets the eye.

I interpreted it as her seeing what people will let her get away with because of who she is. Either thinking, "Yep, I still wield emotional power" or, "Ugh, they're still treating me differently because of this." I'm interested in her story thread.

[GaiusB]

After 2 episodes, i have mixed and more negative feeling about this. I am sure somebody else already said it, it feel like network show. Lack of nudity reinforce that feeling even more, but main problem is that writing is nowhere near of quality of other HBO shows. It would be ok on ABC as better replacement for Lost then Flashforward or Event was. But it is disappointment as HBO show.

 

It is such weird combination of typical European slow and depressing storytelling mixed with pure American characters, setting and religious overtones. I do not think it really work. It all look somewhat preposterous not real. Behaviour of people seems not believable, both cults are very badly made. I have no idea what is their agenda, why they  are doing what they are doing, what motivate their members etc. Than the show  is inserting another otherwordly stuff like teen party in pilot or raid in this episode. Overall Leftovers fail in its most important part, to show us believable reactions from individuals and society.

 

Also where is HBO Ceo of Tits? Somebody should move his ass from King´s Landing brothel, if we not get hot sex between Kevin and Aimee, i will be disappointed. Not so much for missing nudity, but i hate when writers are teasing us with something and than they are too cowardly to follow.

Edited July 9, 2014 by GaiusB

[ottoDbusdriver]

Also where is HBO Ceo of Tits? Somebody should move his ass from King Landing brothel, if we not get hot sex between Kevin and Aimee, i will be disappointed. Not so much for missing nudity, but i hate when writers are teasing us with something and than they are too cowardly to follow.

 

Then prepare to be

disappointed -- in the book, the hot sex connection between Kevin and Aimee doesn't happen.

[alexvillage]

The Nora (?) character refers to the departure as the Event, apparently. When she is interviewing the couple about their son she starts the recording by saying something about the age of the son at TOE, which I assume it is Time of Event.

This just popped up in my head, for no reason.

Not that I care much because I don't intend to watch the series anymore. Ray Donovan is back and I'd rather stick with that (no, I cannot do both. I don't like TV that much and don't have patience to follow more than a few shows at once)

[Totale]

Obviously, something supernatural-ish is going on.  The question is.... what angle will take?  Aliens?  God?  An Alien God? 

 

I get that it's likely never going to be actually revealed, but I really hope it's never even hinted at as being supernatural.  (Aliens, BTW, I would not consider to be supernatural).  The only interesting theme to me in the show so far is humans making up supernatural shit for anything they can't explain, just like they did 2 or 3 thousand years ago.

 

Shallow aside:  I am a guy, but I'm not entirely blind to these things - I can watch "Hell on Wheels" and see the hotness Bohannon and Common bring drip from the screen.  But the "hot cop" (as proclaimed by both characters in the show and folks here)?  Shrug.  He just looks like another guy to me.

[shapeshifter]

But the "hot cop" (as proclaimed by both characters in the show and folks here)?  Shrug.  He just looks like another guy to me.

I didn't realize he was supposed to be hot until it was spoken by Liv Tyler's character, but now that it's declared, I can see it.

[SoWindsor]

Sorry but this show does not deserve my full attention. I'm looking at Pinterest, checking Facebook and so on. Do they really think I'm going to look up and to read these ridiculous hand written notes?

Ugh, horribly boring!

I love Liv Tyler and Justin T is hot but I cannot invest time and energy into a show which bores me to tears.

And agree that the cult is incredibly annoying.

Smoking will probably see a decline by looking so incredibly corny and stupid. So there's the silver lining.

I didn't realize he was supposed to be hot until it was spoken by Liv Tyler's character, but now that it's declared, I can see it.

Well he's engaged to Jennifer Aniston and she has a pretty good track record of being with hot men.

[Helena Dax]

I think the GR believe what happened was too important to be forgotten. Most people is trying to move on, but the GR don't want that. They want it to mean something although I'm not sure they know what they want it to mean. Their rules... Well, cloister nuns can't talk either. It's a sacrifice, I guess. Chain-smoking is probably another one. But my point is that the GR are realistic imo, because that's the way these things work. 

 

It seems to me that the other cult attracts the opposite kind of people, people who wants to move on and feel better. But anyway, to some people, both cults seem to offer an answer. And I guess everybody left wants/needs an answer so no wonder they have followers. 

 

The only thing I don't like about this show are the sheriff's hallucinations, but that's because I don't like hallucinations/prophetic and confusing dreams/visions in the stories I read or watch. 

[Ronin Jackson]

Regardless of what happened in the book (I haven't read it), it is a 336 page novel being expanded into a continuing television narrative.  And honestly that kinda makes me hesitant to invest any time into the show.  The success or failure of the show is going to be entirely dependent on what Lindelof and Perrota come up with, and I'd bet Lindelof is going to have more clout.  I loved Lost for a while but it didn't leave me with a lot of trust in Lindelof.  So far, beyond an interesting premise and some good casting (I do like Justin Theroux and Christopher Eccleston assuming he eventually has something more to do), there's not much going on that I'm finding particularly engaging.  

 

I agree with the criticisms of the GR storyline, unless they eventually offer some more explanation.  But the introduction of Meg seemed like a good opportunity to explain why so many people would join a cult of that kind, and they skipped right over the "why" part of that.  Most cults have some kind of charismatic demagogue at the heart of it... which the GR certainly does not.  At least the Holy Wayne cult has some attempt at that even though Holy Wayne is far more creepy than charismatic.

 

The first episode was a mixed bag but the second one was generally pretty bad.  The climax of Meg deciding that it was actually a worthwhile endeavor to chop the tree down just fell completely flat.  That whole bit wasn't the slightest bit engaging.  That's one thing the Lost always did well, ending the show on some kind of engaging twist or cliffhanger... they were pros at the WTF endings.  Granted this is a different show but it's not good when the second episode is ending on a WGAF note ("Who gives a...")

[Blakeston]

What was up with her dropping the coffee cup on purpose? Just to get sympathy from the waiter? I think there is going to be more to her than meets the eye.

 

I think she was taking out her anger. Just like the children with the inflatable penguin, and the chief with the dogs, and Liv Tyler with the tree. 

 

But the "hot cop" (as proclaimed by both characters in the show and folks here)?  Shrug.  He just looks like another guy to me.

 

 

Did you see his body? For a guy who's presumably in his forties, he's toned as hell. And there are quite a few people who have a thing for Justin Theroux. I can see how he might not stand out as especially attractive as far as movie stars go...but I don't think it's at all unrealistic that someone who's visited by a police officer who looks like that would remark on his looks.

[ganesh]

So is his dad crazy, or is something supernatural going on? You know, other than 140 million people vanishing into thin air.

 

For a show that doesn't want to explain the motivation for the show, the opening theme certainly seemed religious to me.

 

So we've got a presumably federal agency handing out Departure benefits, which I can totally buy, and they're collecting data, which also, obviously. But last week no one has seemingly processed that data and noted potential correlations or anything like that? That's ridiculously disingenuous and sloppy.

 

I agree with the criticisms of the GR storyline, unless they eventually offer some more explanation.

 

This strikes me as something that seemed good on paper, but just isn't working onscreen. The constant 'writing dialogue' is a cheap out by TPTB to pull the typical everyone says something cryptic but no one says anything useful to the viewers. 

 

Same thing with the dog-guy. "I don't want to tell you my name." Then I'm going to arrest you and throw you in jail for the next 24 hours until something useful comes out of your mouth. Give me a break.

 

The smoking is just stupid. I know plenty of people smoke, I don't know anyone anymore personally, and we don't have bars/restaurants where you can smoke. It stinks and it's gross and I don't want someone smoking across from me when I'm eating. People go outside to smoke now. 

 

It would be ok on ABC as better replacement for Lost then Flashforward or Event was.

 

There's a lot to say about FF, but they knew what caused the FFs and they revealed it over the course of the season. 

 

 

I would expect that the first year following would be particulary harrowing -- many people expecting another mass disappearance, desperate seeking of explanations, boatloads of nihilism, suicides.

This is what I don't get. If it happened once, it could happen again. I would think people would be driven to figuring out what happened. Maybe not the people we're seeing on the show, but in the show world at large. 

 

 

Even an Etch-A-Sketch would save them some paper.

The total waste of paper was making me ill. I'm actually going to give TPTB a little slack in that GR are choosing to be wasteful and harmful. I just wouldn't personally always be looking for paper and just carry a white board and marker. 

 

I thought that perhaps Liv Tyler's joining the White Cult would result in exposition on what it's all for, how it started, why they stalk people, how they get the files on those people with photos and information, etc.

 

That's a perfectly reasonable tv device. And the show doesn't have to dump all the cult info all at once, but I think it's fair to expect the show to throw us a bone in that context here. Liv Tyler's been in the pledge house for several weeks and only gets one or two words from the others. We don't even know why she went there in the first place. Some hint of that would have been better.

Edited July 10, 2014 by ganesh

[shapeshifter]

Even an Etch-A-Sketch would save them some paper.

I was going to suggest Etch-A-Sketch, but growing up, I was the only kid who could easily write on one--probably something to do with being ambidextrous. But if we're considering other means of silent communication that might include a bit of a learning curve: How about American Sign Language?

[BooBear]

Sorry but this show does not deserve my full attention. I'm looking at Pinterest, checking Facebook and so on. Do they really think I'm going to look up and to read these ridiculous hand written notes?

 

This. And if they hope to capture my attention can they make the notes more readable? I cannot get what they say on those little notepads.  But it is just silly. The GR can't talk but they can write the little notes as much as they want... seriously? Why has Meg not left by now? Why is she even there? 

 

With regard to Nora being in a fog and knocking the coffee on the floor -- its been THREE YEARS! Seriously I cannot buy people still being in this kind of state three years after. I was watching a story on the local news last night about a hit and run that happened 2 years ago. That family doesn't know what happened. Their loved one is gone, they don't know why... they will probably never know... they are not part of a cult... they are moving on with their lives.

[shapeshifter]

With regard to Nora being in a fog and knocking the coffee on the floor -- its been THREE YEARS!

I interpreted it as her seeing what people will let her get away with because of who she is. Either thinking, "Yep, I still wield emotional power" or, "Ugh, they're still treating me differently because of this." I'm interested in her story thread.

[Me:]It just occurred to me that she didn't have to pay for it after that.

I was actually thinking she knocked over the cup because she couldn't afford to pay for it. If so, it's actually kind of clever--if you otherwise look respectable. If you look homeless, likely you'd be asked to pay for the drink and the cup. But if it looks like an accident, and now your coffee is on the floor in a puddle (what's left of it--which in her case didn't appear to be much), you probably just earned sympathy and a free 3/4 cup of coffee.

Alternatively, she could be an ex-GR who still takes pleasure in making things difficult for people. And/or maybe she's an undercover GR, and all her survey taking is really just to suss out GR recruits. Maybe she is responsible for the lists of prospective GRs!

But if my financial situation takes a turn for the worse, I'm so going to try the broken cup routine. I'm a frickin' aging librarian. I could so get away with it. Heh.

Edited July 10, 2014 by shapeshifter

[90PercentGravity]

I'm pretty sure she would have already paid for it before she sat down. Otherwise the girls who followed her couldn't have jumped up and run out after her. Also, that's just the way coffee shops work.

[ganesh]

 

With regard to Nora being in a fog and knocking the coffee on the floor -- its been THREE YEARS!

However, if she's going to people's houses to do the interviews for vanished loved ones, I can buy that's it's emotionally straining and she might not be dealing well. 

[90PercentGravity]

I felt like Nora was really cagey and I have my doubts that the vanishing benefit, or whatever she called it, is even really a thing.

[RimaTheBirdGirl]

 

I felt like Nora was really cagey

I found Nora icy, and malevolent.  Her interview of the elderly parents was cruel.  I think she could have spared them some, and chose not to.  Edging the cup off the table was manipulative too.  Girl likes pulling strings, and attention.

 

What with all the Evil Leaders (Nora, Holy Wayne, and the less-than-altruistic Guilty Remnant Leader ("Cut her Loose!"), the Scott Glenn character was very welcome.  He was supportive to his beleaguered, neglectful son.  Kind, even while buggy.  And he brought out the best in the cranky Mayor.  

[ganesh]

Why wouldn't the departure benefits be a thing? A government department collecting tons of data on everyone is something that I'd expect to happen. I'm surprised there aren't lawsuits left and right. I would think people would want loved ones to be declared dead if they vanished so they could collect social security, pension, etc. And the responsible agencies would have to prove that one way or another. 

[Ronin Jackson]

I don't have an issue with people still affected by the event three years later.  First of all, it's perfectly realistic.  Our society was still reeling from 9/11 as the three year anniversary approached.  This is a different kind of event of course, one that doesn't have any real world parallels, but it's an event that would have profound religious and spiritual ramifications on the populace.  Second of all, what's the point of even watching a show if you can't accept the central premise?

 

That being said, I don't think the show has been doing a great job of painting the picture of a society reeling from such an event.  I don't think all the GR's motives need to be explained, and I can accept that elements of that story can unfold over time, but right now they are really giving us nothing to latch onto with the story.  It would not be a bad thing that the motivations of the characters in the GR were a mystery if they were actually developing it as a mystery.  But they are not... it seems we are just supposed to accept that a large group of people would submit to a group with an extremely idiosyncratic and excessively challenging set of rules without any kind of hint as to why they would do it.  I think more about their motivations will be revealed as the show goes on but by skipping development of the mystery, it's not particularly engaging.  It's befuddling without being fascinating. 

[ganesh]

 

That being said, I don't think the show has been doing a great job of painting the picture of a society reeling from such an event.

Totally. I'm having a tough time grasping that there's a real world in this show. I don't think TPTBs know much of what's going on in the world outside of this one town. The stuff about the dogs shouldn't be a surprise for example, as I think it would be reported or spread through social media. Flashforward was a shitty show, but I think they were able to do that pretty well early on. Of course, the flash forwards they focused on were boring. 

 

I can buy that there's cults based on my own reasoning, but I'd like to learn about the reasons behind these on the show. I don't mind doling this out over the episodes, but after 2 of them, I think it's fair to expect to learn something. Speaking cryptically isn't dramatic and compelling, it gives the impression the show doesn't know what it is doing, even if it is. But this is basic storytelling and shouldn't be beyond TPTBs skills in making tv shows. Plus, it's on HBO which allows for more serialized storytelling as well as more minutes per episode.

 

The more the show needs us to suspend our disbelief the more they need to world-build. And I'll cut them some slack, I totally buy there's some federal agency collecting data and handing out 'departure benefits.' Wayne has had a lot of screen time in two episodes. He hasn't shown us much of anything except his penchant for asian pussy. That's fine, but if this is just a scam, we need to be tipped off.

Edited July 11, 2014 by ganesh

[stillshimpy]

I agree with the criticisms of the GR storyline, unless they eventually offer some more explanation.  But the introduction of Meg seemed like a good opportunity to explain why so many people would join a cult of that kind, and they skipped right over the "why" part of that.

 

Particularly when dealing with a cult were non-communication of nearly all things is key, they need to make that cult interesting or compelling.  Perhaps they believe that the only way they will ever be given any answers is if they all stop asking any? Seriously, I know that sounds insanely lame, but I'm at a complete loss about the GR so far.  Group Organized Apathy isn't just uninteresting, it's unlikely as hell.  "Let's all get together to not give a damn.  While wearing matching outfits."  

 

Plus, they've talked about Faith (or have a sign about it) so that's my best guess.  They believe they will only know the answers when they stop asking the question.  A bunch of chain-smoking Taoists with super-poor fashion sense.  Sure, why not?  Or also, why in the world?  

 

The actors are KILLING IT.  Honestly, they are trying like mad and really bringing it it in so many instances.  Nora was recording the interview, so she really didn't have any options about what she could ask and couldn't, it would seem.  That was one of the better scenes, the couple resented her so much and who could blame them?  But likely Nora had to answer the same questions for three separate people.  I didn't find her icy or malevolent though, I found her to be the Steroidal version of professional detachment.  Like doctors and therapists who have to keep a level of detachment in order to be able to do the job, to remain even close to emotionally safe.  Nora just seemed like she'd had an emotion-ectomy to me, and that makes sense with her backstory.  

 

This is a little bit of a flight of fancy here, so please bear with me, but if my husband and son disappeared one day, they really are the family that I have.  I don't have aunts, uncles, cousins, just one of those weird things where I really don't have any family that I'm close to (or closely related to even) beyond them.  

 

And here's what occurred to me:  I think I'd stop feeling real, if that makes sense.  Everything that I know about me, everything that is a part of my life is so tied to them not every action, thought, or deed, but the things and people who make up my personal reality....if they were just suddenly gone, I guess I'd wonder if I was actually too.  Everyone has friends, of course, but it just isn't the same kind of thing. Maybe I'd knock cups to the floor.  Maybe I'd think that the whole world was just my personal hellish limbo, with everyone I loved gone from it.  Or maybe I'd just be weirder than hell, all the time, on purpose, so that I'd never have to talk to anyone about it ever.  Never risk emotional intimacy of any kind again.   

 

I don't know.  Nora intrigues me more than the GR, clearly though.  

 

I hope it's not supernatural.

I don't think the show is going for a "God Did It" type of thing. I think part of the premise is that they are desperate for any type of explanation (religious credits) or uniting factor (bizarre, desperate over-reaching questionnaire ) or answer or purpose.

I know I've used this example in the past on TWoP, but when an interviewer asked Samuel Beckett who or what Godot represented in Waiting for Godot, Beckett answered that (basically) "nothing" and "no one" ...he just needed a reason for the characters to be there. It's pretty clear that Beckett was telling the truth by the last lines in the play, but it's historically a really difficult answer for anyone to accept and to this day college kids study the play with an eye towards "who, what, why?"

"There isn't any reason" is apparently a very, very difficult answer to accept. Maybe that's the point of the GR.

Edited July 11, 2014 by stillshimpy