Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[driver18]

I AM SO ANGRY!!!! I know it's just a stupid soap, but I've been waiting for Elizabeth and Luckys new first kiss in forever for ages.... and a SUB!!!??!!

GRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 minutes ago, driver18 said:

I AM SO ANGRY!!!! I know it's just a stupid soap, but I've been waiting for Elizabeth and Luckys new first kiss in forever for ages.... and a SUB!!!??!!

GRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!

SAME!!! And GAAAAAACK!!!!!  That is NOT LUCKY!!!!’

 

I know they’re adults, but I couldn’t help laughing at Mac’s migraine-only because I got a Robin shout out-something that Anna should have heard! Just STAHP with this speshial relationship. I don’t CARE that it’s been decades since Robin and Jason-Anna’s unrequited crush is icky and juvenile.

That kiss Sasha laid on Jason is so STOOPID. She’s stoopid.

[driver18]

Now, I'm in the minority here, I do like Jason and Sasha. :Shrugs: At least there was no sub step-in yesterday or today with those two.

Grrrrrr......

[Bringonthedrama]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

SAME!!! And GAAAAAACK!!!!!  That is NOT LUCKY!!!!’

Just STAHP with this speshial relationship. I don’t CARE that it’s been decades since Robin and Jason-Anna’s unrequited crush is icky and juvenile.

I skipped it. No thank you. 

I don't understand how Anna would or could develop a crush on Jason given she knows his history with her daughter and also after the way her relationships with Duke and more recently, Valentin, ended. The Show needs to explain this, even if it's as simple/lame as she has been feeling isolated without Robert as a confidant and Jason sort of filled that void. 

 

Edited Yest. at 04:06 AM by Bringonthedrama

[GHScorpiosRule]

Anna can also take several seats-telling Elizabeth how Lucky isn’t a cop anymore, yet is allowing Jordan to try and get evidence against The Bald-Headed Booby-when she’s no longer a cop!

Frankly, both JJ’s Lucky and Elizabeth are better cops than the ones under Anna’s purview.

And wonderful. MiniCujo gets released from the pokey offscreen.

Again with the water works from Anna. Jason is NOT your boyfriend who’s breaking up with you! 

[KerleyQ]

I hate to put this out into the universe, but I have a genuine fear that we're getting a Britt/Jason/Carly redux in Anna/Jason/Sasha, with Jason wanting to be with Anna but having to cool things off with her to be honorable, or some such shit, and marry Sasha. There is nothing not icky about that. At least Jason and Britt had chemistry. 

They couldn't have found some way to delay the first kiss?  Maybe have it be a near kiss that Aidan interrupts?  

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 minutes ago, KerleyQ said:

They couldn't have found some way to delay the first kiss?  Maybe have it be a near kiss that Aidan interrupts?

I know, right? They had Ric interrupt their dance- in Elizabeth’s home!

 

14 minutes ago, KerleyQ said:

I hate to put this out into the universe, but I have a genuine fear that we're getting a Britt/Jason/Carly redux in Anna/Jason/Sasha

[ciarra]

Why is Liz kissing John Boy from the Waltons?

 

[Winston Wolfe]

10 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I feel bad for all the LL fans who were waiting for their first kiss only for it to happen with a recast. And it looks like she'll be rescued by temp Lucky too. He also looked a lot like Jacob Young. 

Maybe it was my TV, but TempLucky looked really Asian to me today.

Anna couldn't help tearing up when talking to Jasus. Sad, really, really sad. Yet another reason why your squad shouldn't have any confidence in you, PCPD Commissioner Devane.

I've liked FH for decades (Does anyone else remember her in the terrible SNF sequel Staying Alive?), but the showrunners need to find something else to do with Anna.

And...this is really nit-picky...but her new vocal tick of ending every request with "Yah?" is starting to annoy.

[YaddaYadda]

8 hours ago, KerleyQ said:

I hate to put this out into the universe, but I have a genuine fear that we're getting a Britt/Jason/Carly redux in Anna/Jason/Sasha, with Jason wanting to be with Anna but having to cool things off with her to be honorable, or some such shit, and marry Sasha. There is nothing not icky about that. At least Jason and Britt had chemistry. 

Keeping it in the family with this triangle.

[Desperado]

Writers made international man of mystery Brennan the son of a plumber.
We’re sure moving away from sparkle, but it’ll fit the new actor better.

Maybe it’s because I’m remembering him too much as the boring cop on Y&R.

And Carly distressed over a kitchen water leak, needing the help of a big man to fix it.

Show is so 1950s sometimes.

I see a Carly/Sonny reunion in the near future.

[GHScorpiosRule]

13 minutes ago, Desperado said:

Show is so 1950s sometimes.

Sometimes? I think it went straight to it once that stupid custody of Wiley began-when Diana told the SLS that he had to be with someone who was "pure" and Sasha (his lover/partner at the time) had that scamming past; but Willow! Oh Willow! Would be perrrrrrrrrrrrrfect as his wife, thus guaranteeing that Nelle would LOSE!!!!!!!

And it's been stuck in that mode for nearly 7 years or so.

7 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

And...this is really nit-picky...but her new vocal tick of ending every request with "Yah?" is starting to annoy.

It's been bugging me for months. First I was like, hey, this isn't Canada, yeah? I don't recall any other Brits ending their sentences with that word. Starting with it, in my historical love stories and 90s Harlequins (DON'T JUDGE ME!!!), when someone, usually the heroine, says she's fine when she's not; she's okay after nearly being attacked and doesn't need the hero's help...Hero will respond with: "Right." And then say whatever, blah, blah, blah.

Man, if Frank does go the route that @KerleyQ posted upthread, I hope visions of his love story with Robin fills his head to stop Jason in his tracks.

[dubbel zout]

This will probably get me thrown off the boards, but so what, so here's my incredibly unpopular opinion: I don't care what actor plays Lucky for the "first" kiss with Elizabeth. There's been something off for me with Lucky and Elizabeth ever since he came back to PC. I can't quite put my finger on it—he seems vaguely patronizing/overly solicitous and is also slightly overdoing the "I've been a terrible father" stuff. So be a better father now! It's like with Lulu bemoaning not knowing Rocco. Get to know your kids, Spencer siblings! Apologizing only goes so far. Nothing will happen if you don't put in any effort. You have to start doing something.

Have at me. I can take it! I won't change my mind.

[YaddaYadda]

50 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Have at me. I can take it! I won't change my mind.

[Asp Burger]

11 hours ago, ciarra said:

Why is Liz kissing John Boy from the Waltons?

Ha. I was thinking, "'80s Scott Glenn."

[boes]

9 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Anna couldn't help tearing up when talking to Jasus. Sad, really, really sad. Yet another reason why your squad shouldn't have any confidence in you, PCPD Commissioner Devane.

I've liked FH for decades (Does anyone else remember her in the terrible SNF sequel Staying Alive?), but the showrunners need to find something else to do with Anna.

And...this is really nit-picky...but her new vocal tick of ending every request with "Yah?" is starting to annoy.

You all said that Anna had been turned into a tearful, whiny bad cop and yesterday I saw it far too clearly.

Show is setting her up with JASON?????  She's been reduced to emotional dumpster diving?  How COULD they?

Losing the respect of her fellow officers is the last thing she should be worried about.

Edited Yest. at 04:23 PM by boes

[YaddaYadda]

12 minutes ago, boes said:

Losing the respect of her fellow officers is the last thing she should be worried about.

I doubt she has their respect to begin with.

When she was telling Jason how they were close to arresting Cyrus because of evidence, I was wondering if she was for real. It's no thanks to you that you're close to arresting Cyrus. You've done sweet fuck all, lady. Your investigation has been a dud, from start to now. 

Weepy, wants to be validated by a murderer, and bad at her job.

Edited Yest. at 04:35 PM by YaddaYadda

[dubbel zout]

Emo Anna is unwatchable. I'm indifferent to them putting her with Jason, but if they do that, FFS make it a fun, sexy romp. (Or as much as it can be a fun, sexy romp when one of the parties is a robot.) Right now I feel like if they get together it will be Anna constantly wringing her hands and crying, with Jason stoically sitting by waiting for the tears to dry up.

This is not romantic, Show! I have my misgivings about Ric and Ava, but that's more the writing. At least those two know exactly what's going on between them. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

here's my incredibly unpopular opinion: I don't care what actor plays Lucky for the "first" kiss with Elizabeth. There's been something off for me with Lucky and Elizabeth ever since he came back to PC. I can't quite put my finger on it—he seems vaguely patronizing/overly solicitous and is also slightly overdoing the "I've been a terrible father" stuff.

I think they're writing him this way-constantly saying what a horrible father he's been, because of the way his character was made into a deadbeat father while offscreen. Because Frank couldn't convince JJ to return sooner? The hack writers couldn't put in dialogue that Lucky did see Jake, Aiden and Cameron when those three weren't onscreen?

And because of social media and fans/stans demanding what they want and  certain showrunners caving in, instead of, you know, writing for the show and characters that makes sense and good drama and storytelling, is also a factor, in my opinion.

So JJ is leaning into that, otherwise, if it wasn't mentioned-at all-social media would have gone into a frenzy about "white washing" what a "horrible dad" Lucky has been, and he's not getting called out for it?

But I do agree-enough already of that.

And because JJ is the only Lucky for me, I do care that their first kiss after all these years wasn't with JJ and Becky, but a temp.

Potatoes and pohtatoes and all that.

[Bringonthedrama]

13 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I know, right? They had Ric interrupt their dance- in Elizabeth’s home!

Yes, that was a good way to build up the tension and another interruption should have been scripted whether Aiden came home early, a loud ring tone because Cameron is calling, whatever.

It's not only unfair to the LnL2 fans, it's an unprofessional thing to do to Rebecca Herbst. She has never acted with this Wilson before, so there's zero time to get comfortable together enough, but they have to kiss as part of a great love story?  Herbst is a great actress but c'mon, she's not a magician. Of course it's an awkward/uncomfortable situation and it showed in her body language. I don't recall that the partners of recasts/temp recasts for Sam, Michael, Lulu, and now NuBrennan. had to kiss them in their first scene(s). The only thing I can remember that would sort of compare is when Vanessa Marcil had to be in lingerie immediately when Brenda started on the Show.

[threebluestars]

All of these key scenes being filmed without the regular actors are awful.

I think I'm done with the show finally.

[KerleyQ]

2 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

It's not only unfair to the LnL2 fans, it's an unprofessional thing to do to Rebecca Herbst. She has never acted with this Wilson before, so there's zero time to get comfortable together enough, but they have to kiss as part of a great love story?  Herbst is a great actress but c'mon, she's not a magician. Of course it's an awkward/uncomfortable situation and it showed in her body language. I don't recall that the partners of recasts/temp recasts for Sam, Michael, Lulu, and now NuBrennan. had to kiss them in their first scene(s).

I don't recall off the bat, but, even if they did, it wasn't the characters' first kiss (or first kiss in over a decade), so it wasn't this momentous romantic moment that there was pressure on them to make perfect. It had to be jarring to be reconnecting with JJ as a scene partner and the characters' relationship, only for the big moment they've been building towards to be swapped out to someone else. 

[tessaray]

It was awful today. And how convenient was the flashback of Cyrus snipping Dex's hospital band? So they'll find his cache of deranged serial killer souvenirs, drag him off to Archam or whatever and he can replace Ryan or Heather as needed. Ugh. Both JK and BH tried, I guess. 

I'm so over Dante now (and he was one of the few left that I actually liked). Way to go, breaking the confidences of two of his best friends just to shut Lulu up. 

If Willow is stupid enough to move in with Drew while she's still married to Michael, she deserves whatever she gets. Was Nelle this dumb? 

[statsgirl]

Really, the wrong time to have JJ off. If it's because of block taping, they should have written around it.

Having Chase sing on Valentine's Day should lose Curtis the 'coolest club in town" designation.

As Chase tearfully told Dante that he couldn't give Brook Lynn a child, i thought Hey, maybe Dante will help out and give Gio a full sibling.

Willow is still angry at Brad for hurting Michael six years ago? She who is having an affair with his uncle now?  Just when I think she can't be any more messed up.

Is Drew living on Valentin's old house?

Was Lulu this obnoxious and yes, stupid, under JMB's time?  Yes, it is your job to be yelled at by the customers.

Hey Dante, how about keeping other people's personal information to yourself?

Brennan "I study psychology" was very wrong with his explanation of why we have dreams.

[Perkie]

8 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Is Drew living on Valentin's old house?

To me, it looked like Portia/Trina's old house that Cyrus held them hostage in, which was also the set for the Dawn of Day cult.  

[tessaray]

15 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Brennan "I study psychology" was very wrong with his explanation of why we have dreams.

It really throws me off when Carly is the least offensive part of an episode. Maybe they should have just let Brennan fade away and have Carly fall for the plumber who studied to be a psychologist (though he evidently missed an important course or two) and then ended up in the family business. 

Edited 22 hours ago by tessaray

[Ambrosefolly]

5 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Was Lulu this obnoxious and yes, stupid, under JMB's time?  Yes, it is your job to be yelled at by the customers.

She became that obnoxious in the JMB years when they decided that Lulu was a mini Carly (and worshipped her), instead of a female Luke, and yes, there is a difference. 

49 minutes ago, threebluestars said:

All of these key scenes being filmed without the regular actors are awful.

I think I'm done with the show finally.

And this is why I disagree with @dubbel zout. This is why I care when they have temp actors film these important scenes, especially if the actual actor is coming right back; nothing else, it looks sloppy. They could have rewritten the scene at least and moved the kiss to a different day, but no. Between this, and the lack of care with characters (legacy to new) is why I was on @GHScorpiosRule side for her dislike of Emma's characterization. It felt like the show needed a "bad girl" and decided it should be Emma because she was the most available. Considering what the show did to Anna Devane, an established character with a long history and multiple, it was warranted. There are ways to make a character what you need for the canvas without sacrificing the integrity of what the audience believes they could be.

[ciarra]

21 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Was Lulu this obnoxious and yes, stupid, under JMB's time? 

They used to call her Shrewlu on the TWoP forum.

[dubbel zout]

I don't know if it's intentional or just the actor's affect, but nuEmma' weirdly aggressive, smug entitlement demands of everyone's time really bugs me.

Bahahaha! Brennan gets cockblocked by Donna.

Sobbing Cyrus was something I could have done without. I did like how Elizabeth understood what he was trying to do, even though she was horrified by it.

Good thing Anna was having murder suspect Cyrus surveilled and the PCPD could arrest him in Elizabeth's house. Oh, wait.

LOL at the tiny Y-scar on Dex's chest.

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Willow is still angry at Brad for hurting Michael six years ago?

Considering Michael got Wiley back—and Willow is his mother!—her anger is pretty pointless. Wiley doesn't remember a thing. It's not as if he's scarred for life because of that.

22 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Hey Dante, how about keeping other people's personal information to yourself?

Also, there are other reasons people's lives aren't "perfect" even if they do have kids. Or if they don't want kids. 

[nilyank]

30 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Was Lulu this obnoxious and yes, stupid, under JMB's time?  Yes, it is your job to be yelled at by the customers.

 

OMG she totally was. When she originally started working at Crimson she acted as if she was too good for the job despite getting 0 credits in college, having minimal job experience and no real street smarts.

Speaking of Lulu, it was really rich of her to complain about BLQ being able to fail upwards. Lulu who is currently working at Deception because she is friends with Maxie and Tracy. Lulu who became Girl Reporter thanks to Peter hiring her because she was Maxie's friend. Lulu who used to own the Haunter Star because Nikolas bought it for her. 

So Cyrus was the one responsible for causing Lulu's liver failure. 

 

[PatsyandEddie]

I have to give kudos to Guy Wilson for being willing to do these important scenes as a fill in. He has to know that it’s less than a stellar time to be replacing someone but he’s doing okay AFAIC 
Sure, I would rather it was JJ but it wasn’t possible for some reason so I will take the scenes as they come to move the s/l along  

 

[Desperado]

Gotta hand it to Jeff Kober - the guy does not phone it in. BH was good too. That reasoning was all over the place even for an unhinged character though.

6 minutes ago, nilyank said:

So Cyrus was the one responsible for causing Lulu's liver failure. 

Missed that completely - thanks!

Entitled Lulu grates *so much*.

The NuBrennan actor was pretty bad in his scenes with the kid.

[TVbitch]

I wish they would have made JK a gray character so he could stick around as Laura and Martin's brother and just get into trouble now and then. Can't wait for Anna to take full credit for nabbing Cyrus.

Even though I care greatly about animal rights, I probably wouldn't help Emma just cuz she is so Goddamn annoying. 

[JMO]

I didn't usually appreciate exposition dumps like the one we got from Cyrus, but I suppose they had to do it. The writing has been all over the place regarding Cyrus' personality, so it had to be the character who explained it, and JK did it expertly.  And BH was pretty masterful in keeping just the right amount of quiver and fear in Liz's voice.  

This will be the second time Liz has had to do CPR on the floor of her living room to a man she loves.  To my memory, Franco was the first.  Talk about PTSD.

I don't understand why Dante showed up at Deception---had he dropped Lulu off, and gone back to get her?

Poor Dex-who-never-got-a-funeral.  Maybe he's languishing in the morgue as a John Doe.

I'm assuming Brennan's phone call had something to do with Joss going to Cyrus' cabin. Will he save her from Cyrus, or save her from killing Cyrus, or clean up after the murder?

 

[Bringonthedrama]

4 minutes ago, JMO said:

This will be the second time Liz has had to do CPR on the floor of her living room to a man she loves.  To my memory, Franco was the first.  Talk about PTSD.

No, Franco died on the floor of his art studio. He struggled with Peter/Heinrick and the gun went off; Peter left.  Elizabeth came in moments after Jason arrived. She wanted to save Franco but really, she knew it was already too late.

[JMO]

5 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

No, Franco died on the floor of his art studio. He struggled with Peter/Heinrick and the gun went off; Peter left.  Elizabeth came in moments after Jason arrived. She wanted to save Franco but really, she knew it was already too late.

Liz did CPR on him on her living room floor (or more correctly, just inside the door) after Ryan stabbed him in Pentonville.

ETA Now that I think about it, I don't remember if there was CPR, or if Franco was just bleeding out.  

Edited 21 hours ago by JMO

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Was Lulu this obnoxious and yes, stupid, under JMB's time?  Yes, it is your job to be yelled at by the customers.

Lulu was always entitled and obnoxious and characters treated her like she walked on water.

And JMB was overrated, imo.

So Cyrus is about to find dumb Joss in the cabin? Hope he has enough digitalis to kill an elephant.

[DanaK]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Sobbing Cyrus was something I could have done without. I did like how Elizabeth understood what he was trying to do, even though she was horrified by it.

I don’t know that she was “understanding” it, more likely she was pretending to in order to get him to confess all. But dang Becky was good and so was Jeff in an unhinged sort of way

[nilyank]

1 hour ago, Bringonthedrama said:

No, Franco died on the floor of his art studio. He struggled with Peter/Heinrick and the gun went off; Peter left.  Elizabeth came in moments after Jason arrived. She wanted to save Franco but really, she knew it was already too late.

Good times. Best thing that Peter ever did.

I like that Lucky went to save Liz and then right away Liz is going to have the chance to save Lucky back. 

Of course, it should have been JJ.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, DanaK said:

I don’t know that she was “understanding” it, more likely she was pretending to in order to get him to confess all.

I think she did understand it, while knowing Cyrus's logic was grotesque and she didn't agree with it at all. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

[Bringonthedrama]

2 hours ago, DanaK said:

I don’t know that she was “understanding” it, more likely she was pretending to in order to get him to confess all. But dang Becky was good and so was Jeff in an unhinged sort of way

She didn't have her cell phone on her recording what he said, so I don't think she was trying to get him to confess all. She was scared, and expressing "understanding" was buying her time to figure out how to get away from a dangerous man. At first, she had no idea if he had a concealed syringe, gun, knife, so if he was considering killing her in this moment while she was alone, perhaps showing "understanding" of his perspective would enable her to talk him into leaving.

[sacrebleu]

So LnL's kiss, the confrontation with Cyrus, and Liz fighting to keep Lucky alive will be filmed with the sub?!?

I don't care how much block taping saved, leaving the big moments to temp actors just destroys the emotional payoff these scenes are supposed to have.

[DanaK]

32 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

She didn't have her cell phone on her recording what he said, so I don't think she was trying to get him to confess all. She was scared, and expressing "understanding" was buying her time to figure out how to get away from a dangerous man. At first, she had no idea if he had a concealed syringe, gun, knife, so if he was considering killing her in this moment while she was alone, perhaps showing "understanding" of his perspective would enable her to talk him into leaving.

Yeah, that too

[Sake614]

Why didn’t Liz immediately pick up the house phone that was practically next to her hand when Cyrus walked into the house? How hard was it to press 911? I mean, the camera showed the damn phone several times. She walked past the phone Several times but never once thought to grab it and call for help? 

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, sacrebleu said:

So LnL's kiss, the confrontation with Cyrus, and Liz fighting to keep Lucky alive will be filmed with the sub?!?

I don't care how much block taping saved, leaving the big moments to temp actors just destroys the emotional payoff these scenes are supposed to have.

 

I don’t even know what that was with that yelling and attempt at fighting Cyrus was. That’s NOT Lucky. He’s not a screamer* and that this. . .temp couldn’t overpower an old man?!

Until he showed up, those scenes with Elizabeth and Cyrus were great. Becky was awesome at trying to tamp down her fear while trying to get into Cyrus’ head. Jeff Kober was also very good.

Everything else was just trash.

*Exception is Jacob Young’s Yellee McYellerson and Vaughn’s Larry.

[KerleyQ]

So, am I supposed to believe that the child of Robin Scorpio and Patrick Drake requires Gio to instruct her as to how to socialize with people?  What the fuck even is this?  

BH and JK were both very good in their scenes today, but, damn, I wish that was JJ's Lucky busting in. 

Now Drew wants Willow and the kids to move into his house? Maybe wait until she's divorced first.  I don't like Portia, but I did enjoy her snarky gossiping about them today. 

[Winston Wolfe]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don’t even know what that was with that yelling and attempt at fighting Cyrus was. That’s NOT Lucky. He’s not a screamer* and that this. . .temp couldn’t overpower an old man?!

Given that TempLucky looks slightly Asian, I expected some...KungFu Fighting. After all, old man Cyrus doesn't look "fast as lightning."

I'll be here all week, folks.

[ljr]

What a joke this Cyrus murder story is. His reasons don’t make any sense. 
 

 

[CeChase]

1 minute ago, ljr said:

What a joke this Cyrus murder story is. His reasons don’t make any sense. 
 

 

Well, he's taking trophies.  His reasons are excuses he may make even to himself, but he's just a serial killer who enjoys murdering people. 

[DanaK]

1 hour ago, CeChase said:

Well, he's taking trophies.  His reasons are excuses he may make even to himself, but he's just a serial killer who enjoys murdering people. 

I think he’s just off his rocker because he knows or thinks his mom is suffering and he can’t help her die. He then transferred that to other people suffering that he feels he can relieve by killing them. The others he killed because they were in his way. His religious conversion went too far but he uses it to wrap his reasons around. I don’t think he’s enjoying murdering people, though perhaps doing so gives him some temporary relief because he thinks he’s doing God’s work