Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[JMO]

"No matter what happens, or what anybody says....we're brothers."

This was the line that got me today.  For me, the pathos of this whole situation lies in what it does to this relatively drama-free, patched-together little family, the sibling relationships they've formed, and Dante's relationship with them as a whole. 

This is the third time Elizabeth and Lucky have had the same conversation about him leaving.  Are there no other conversations to be had?

I wasn't watching when Ric was on before.  Has he always been such a cold-hearted bastard as to harass Alexis after her daughter has died?

[ciarra]

1 minute ago, JMO said:

I wasn't watching when Ric was on before.  Has he always been such a cold-hearted bastard as to harass Alexis after her daughter has died?

They have to make Ric look worse than Sonny, and since there's no old man around to beat up or an FBI agent to shoot, he has to be a jerk to Alexis.

[jsbt]

Ric has always been an insect.

[KittenPokerCheater]

Did they ever get the autopsy results back for Sam?

[JMO]

2 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Did they ever get the autopsy results back for Sam?

They've only said it could take weeks.  Usually that means there's nothing obvious, so they need to wait on toxicology and cultures.  

[dubbel zout]

26 minutes ago, jsbt said:

Ric has always been an insect.

His hatred of Sonny and Jason is well-known and accurately portrayed. They're ramping up the animosity between him and Alexis, and on the PC scale of deadbeat dads, he's not high on the list. There were mentions of Molly talking to him regularly and going out to LA to visit him.

[GHScorpiosRule]

JJ is so much better than this and deserves so much better than what he’s been given.

At this point, I have to think it’s has to get better when Lulu wakes up.

 

[sacrebleu]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Thank you, @YaddaYadda, but I'll never know who's who. I am okay with this.

Danny's hair sticks up in front... Like Jason. That's the only way I can tell them apart

[sashabear21]

I always thought of Ric as more of a weasel.  

[absnow54]

5 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Seeing Danny and Rocco together still doesn't help me tell them apart. I have face blindness with those boys, LOL.

Danny vaguely looks like 90’s era AJ without the pompous rich boy swag. 

[Artsda]

Kristina remembered Molly's birthday and not TG? He has no excuse. 

Ric was disgusting today. The woman is burying her daughter. 

 

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I had to laugh at the  picture of Sam that Dante chose for that scrapbook or something whatever it was. I was expecting to see a picture of the both of them with big smiles or something. Instead it was one with a blank look/half smile. That was the best they could find of her as “very happy”?

Drew just looks hung over with that two-three day scrub on his face. Can’t even bother to shave for the funeral, let alone when he won the election.

And how stupid is Nina?

What Ric said today to Alexis was low-even for him.

[Bringonthedrama]

6 hours ago, JMO said:

I wasn't watching when Ric was on before.  Has he always been such a cold-hearted bastard as to harass Alexis after her daughter has died?

He's an equal opportunity bastard, not just to Alexis.  He likes to act as if he never locked pregnant Carly in a panic room for however long it was, was not the cause of Elizabeth going blind (temporarily), never attacked Elizabeth on the witness stand about her marriage and Jason and the paternity of her baby and then sneered at her about Jason when she called him cruel.

6 hours ago, ciarra said:

They have to make Ric look worse than Sonny, and since there's no old man around to beat up or an FBI agent to shoot, he has to be a jerk to Alexis.

But he's a jerk to Alexis, to his own former stepdaughter (who used to call him Daddy Ric, and he's been a pushy jerk to Elizabeth on multiple occasions. Both brothers are shitty humans however Sonny has a higher body count.

5 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

 They're ramping up the animosity between him and Alexis, and on the PC scale of deadbeat dads, he's not high on the list. There were mentions of Molly talking to him regularly and going out to LA to visit him.

I was under the impression from the lack of mentions over the years that Molly and Ric have hardly been in touch since he left. Alexis had to get on the phone and yell at him to come to the baby's funeral. He was also Kristina's stepfather for a while when she was a young child, so he should show that he feels at least a tiny bit of compassion for everything she's been through. Instead, he uses info obtained from Molly to provoke Kristina and tells her to her face it's her fault the baby died.  He's acting like he has always thought Kristina was a loser and that his "love" for Molly is superficial. It seems to me more like his presence is about wanting to make Alexis suffer for having children other than his daughter. 

Edited Tuesday at 04:30 AM by Bringonthedrama

[KerleyQ]

When Molly walked outside to get fresh air, I honestly half expected someone they were chem testing her with to randomly be walking past Alexis's house. Instead we got Ric pretending he was there solely for her when we all know he wanted to kick Alexis while she's down. 

And even TJ forgot Molly's birthday? Damn. That couple is so done, aren't they? 

I really can't wait until we get to the part where Nina and Willow both find out exactly what Drew has been doing with both of them. 

I'm surprised they were restrained enough to simply have Lulu's eyes pop open during Sam's funeral. It's almost too subtle for this show. She's not going to walk into the funeral and collapse right as Dante is speaking?  Or, alternately, her eyes didn't pop open the instant they called Sam's time of death? 

They had better not fuck up Liz/Lucky.  RH and JJ have more chemistry catching each other's eye across a room without speaking than any couple this show has going now. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, KerleyQ said:

They had better not fuck up Liz/Lucky.  RH and JJ have more chemistry catching each other's eye across a room without speaking than any couple this show has going now

[Suicidy]

On 11/14/2024 at 6:39 PM, sashabear21 said:

Jeez, not in the face Jason! Then they'll just plastic surgery story it and recast with Daniel Cosgrove and the show will get cancelled for sure! (Although DC actually could make Drew a decent character again).  

Seriously.  CM’s Drew has turned into a total scumbag.  Can any of you imagine Billy Miller’s spouting the lines we’ve been getting from CM?

[Suicidy]

On 11/15/2024 at 11:27 AM, Asp Burger said:

I liked Molly more with Isaiah than I have in months. It's one day, but they seem to work. 

I know Tabyana Ali has her fans, but I just don't enjoy her scenes, post NAC exit. The apparent struggles of the writers to come up with interesting things for Trina to do are part of it, but when the actress tries hard, it always looks like trying hard. She's playing Trina's anger at her eventual love interest so hotly that she would have no room for more outrage and indignation if Trina knew he were guilty of doing something far worse to some woman on campus. I was unspoiled for this part of the show, and I really thought that's where it was going when it started. (The decision to make the character a popular athlete may also have been a factor there.) 

TV/movie trope ready to go on the shelf: Tough guy wincing and recoiling as woman applies medicine to his cuts/scrapes/bruises. Maybe it was cute and humanizing in the 1930s.

The writers really enjoy taking attractive actresses and turning their characters into massive bitches.  Carly, Carly Jr. Portia, Molly, Kristina, and now Trina.  All played by hot women but manage to be written in a way to make them not on,y unattractive, but often repellent.

Seriously, WTF?  I know that as a straight guy I’m not really in the target demo for this show, but this crap can’t possibly be appealing.

Can it?

[Suicidy]

On 11/15/2024 at 8:26 PM, Winston Wolfe said:

Agreed. But Jasus pretending to slap Ric was such a punk/bitch move. In the end, it looked like he was either trying to straighten Ric's tie, caress his face, or was having some sort of spasm.

I’ll go with caress.  It could be a bold new direction for both characters.

On 11/16/2024 at 12:27 AM, Cool Breeze said:

Drew making the SEALs look bad.  Untrained brawler Jason gets the best of him? Yikes.  The Navy should get its money back.

ETA, wonder if there will be a WTD with Molly, TJ and Isaiah.

Drew has absolutely no memory of being a SEAL due to Dr. Maddox’s memory swap with Jason.  So,etching the current writers continually forget.   He has Jason’s memories up through around 2012-2013.

Edited Tuesday at 05:32 AM by Suicidy

[Suicidy]

On 11/17/2024 at 9:03 PM, tessaray said:

It feels like they were freshman about 2 years ago, so yes. Joss at least should be ready to graduate any time now. 🙂 

Not that I mind soap opera time expanding and contracting as needed.  

Which reminds me... what use is Joss's degree in Environmental Science going to be in PC? 

That qualifies her to be CEO of Aurora in another three years.  At lead the way this show is written.

[Suicidy]

13 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

That scene (the Jason/Ric garage beatdown in 2006) was something else. I do not get misty-eyed with nostalgia for the reign of the Gooze, but everyone involved committed to it that day, and Ric looked afterward as if he really had been pummeled by a mob enforcer.

It made most of the "fight" scenes on later GH look even more tepid than they are. 

Bonus: When I looked up the exact year for that, I found that the Ric Lansing "Health and Vitals" section on the fandom site is almost all about him being beaten up. You scroll and scroll and you're still in 2003. Heh.

2003 was a rough year for Ric.

[nilyank]

4 hours ago, Suicidy said:

2003 was a rough year for Ric.

He deserved it.

[Katy M]

It's NOT OK that Jason punched Drew.  But, I'm getting sick of Drew acting like a poor innocent victim that did nothing wrong. Especially when he was talking to Carly acting like Jason had no reason and she shouldn't believe him.  LIke, just press charges or don't, and get on with your life.

And why on earth get Ric, of all people, involved?  

[ljr]

Why does lucky still look like he hasn’t washed his hair?

The trina character should have moved back to Paris. The actress is a storyline that seems like it should be in a sitcom. It’s not very soapy to be angry about a class project.

[nilyank]

1 hour ago, ljr said:

The trina character should have moved back to Paris. The actress is a storyline that seems like it should be in a sitcom. It’s not very soapy to be angry about a class project.

I don’t understand why she is still angry over this. She has already spoken with the TA to get a new lab partner and Kai has apologized/seems sincere about rectifying his absence for this class. After her mom and her almost being killed by Cyrus, Heather the Hook, Esme, being arrested/going to trial for the recent porn and Spencer dying, this class project seem pretty low stakes to waste this much emotional anger on.

[Asp Burger]

Adding to the Ric discussion, for newer viewers: Fundamentally, he's a character no writing or producing regime has cared about "protecting." So, there's no clear level to which he won't stoop. When he stoops to those levels, the characters around him react to it like real people would react. He doesn't get built-in justifications and a small or large army of apologist characters within the show, as some other characters get.  

I think we're intended to see him as smart, cunning, charming, unable to let go of old resentments, selfish, and willing to be downright cruel. He has some degree of conscience and can care about specific people. He can even have romantic storylines with heroine types like Elizabeth and Alexis, but the writing will be telling you constantly that the woman is too good for him, and you always know it will blow up eventually, "as soon as she finds out about [X]." He doesn't get long-term wins, ever.

As dubbel zout said, all that's new this time around is that they're ramping up his hatred of Alexis and his delight in making trouble for her. That part seems a little weird to me. 

The consistency of Hearst's performances is the best thing Ric has going for him. I don't think I'd have given him as much thought as it took to write this post otherwise.

[nilyank]

15 minutes ago, Asp Burger said:

The consistency of Hearst's performances is the best thing Ric has going for him. I don't think I'd have given him as much thought as it took to write this post otherwise.

He also has excellent screen chemistry with his scene partners. He is always enjoyable to watch his performance even if the character can be downright horrible. Ric Lansing is an smart man who lets lets his emotions and pettiness act undermine him every time he gets a win.

[dubbel zout]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

And why on earth get Ric, of all people, involved?  

Because Drew knows how much he hates Jason. You could see Ric practically licking his chops at the thought of going after Jason.

[MarciNJ]

On 11/16/2024 at 1:12 PM, ciarra said:

On 11/16/2024 at 11:54 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Only if Molly’s endometriosis is miraculously cured. It’s why they went the surrogacy route.

Yes, but you're forgetting she made a wish on a birthday cupcake from a handsome stranger.  That should cure her broken baby factory.

plus, as Sam's biological sister, she probably also has a magical liver that cures all...

[jsbt]

3 hours ago, nilyank said:

After her mom and her almost being killed by Cyrus, Heather the Hook, Esme, being arrested/going to trial for the recent porn and Spencer dying, this class project seem pretty low stakes to waste this much emotional anger on.

Low stakes is the only kind of story they are comfortable playing with a Black female lead when they don't actually want a Black female lead.

[tessaray]

2 hours ago, jsbt said:

Low stakes is the only kind of story they are comfortable playing with a Black female lead when they don't actually want a Black female lead.

I hope you're wrong. 

For me, a lot of it traces back to the addition of action adventure into soaps. What do you do with characters after they've been off saving the world or dealing with life and death stakes? The transition back to normal stories can be awkward. 

Edited Tuesday at 08:24 PM by tessaray

[Sake614]

1 hour ago, jsbt said:

Low stakes is the only kind of story they are comfortable playing with a Black female lead when they don't actually want a Black female lead.

I expect that to abruptly change when Beyond the Gates premieres and knocks GH even further down in the ratings than it is already. The show is already hemorrhaging viewers and with fresh competition in the 2 pm ET slot, GH will have to do something.

[Daisy]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Because Drew knows how much he hates Jason. You could see Ric practically licking his chops at the thought of going after Jason.

also. there's only 3 lawyers
Dianne won't do it
Alexis is dealing with Sam
that leaves Ric

[YaddaYadda]

If Carly had to speak at Sam's funeral, I'm glad the flashback was one where Sam backhanded her into the following week.

Given all the consideration the writers have given Sam, both with her death and her funeral, I think it's safe to assume that the storyline dictated line has everything with FV being the one dictating.

Color me shocked that Lucky spoke at the funeral. They didn't even share a scene. 

Where in the hell was Laura?

Why was Nina there expect to comment about Jason's presence. Nina, Jason and Sam were couple for a long time and they have a child together. Maybe he needed to be there as much for himself as for his son.

I remember the scene between Elizabeth and Sam. I also remember reading an article where Kelly told Becky where to grab the hair and pull out the pins because they were painful.

I liked the Ava/NuLucas scenes, which still seem like fan service. But this Lucas is not the real Lucas to me at least.

NLG has a lot of highlight reels to choose from.

[mostlylurking]

5 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

The consistency of Hearst's performances is the best thing Ric has going for him.

So true.  I have always loved Hearst and love the silver fox look he’s got going on.  But no matter how much education and intellect he supposedly has, Ric is a scum bag and always has been.  He was wooing Elizabeth meanwhile he had pregnant Carly locked up in a panic room.  He’s only a smidge above Sonny because Sonny is actually a murderer, but that’s a pretty low bar.

[Bringonthedrama]

Allll the kudos to KV, KM, BA, JJ, DZ, FFC, NLG, and the two Jason-Danny hugs in front of everyone, really made me cry as they spoke about Sam during the funeral. I am not the type to cry from television.  The child actors, their eyes glistening/watering with unshed, tears, was heartbreaking. 

Elizabeth's tribute/saying she's "proud" of the place she and Sam had reached as co-parents seemed appropriate. Carly had to speak because that's how this Show rolls, but telling all the loved ones that she respected Sam is absolute b.s.

CM couldn't even manage a glistening eye. Did he fall asleep briefly? I swear I saw closed eyes. Even Portia, who barely knew Sam, showed more emotion.

And why on G-d's green earth was Gio (not sure he ever even met Sam and playing violin as people left seemed out of place) included in the funeral but not Sam's brother, Leo? It can't be about the actor's age because the other kid actors were there for all the scenes yet the girl who plays Scout is younger than the boy who plays Leo.

Alexis looking absolutely gutted, sitting alone briefly, was so very sad and that montage of Sam with various friends and family at the end also made me tear up.  Farewell, Kelly Monaco.

I thought Laura would be entering Lulu's hospital room or asleep in the corner since she wasn't at the funeral. I call b.s. that Lulu would be alone in her room and would have the strength to lift her hands to her face after years in a coma.  Instead of emotional Laura, Cyrus is in the preview with Lulu? Ick.

 

 

[mostlylurking]

40 minutes ago, Sake614 said:

I expect that to abruptly change when Beyond the Gates premieres and knocks GH even further down in the ratings than it is already. The show is already hemorrhaging viewers and with fresh competition in the 2 pm ET slot, GH will have to do something.

I am very excited about this, which means I’ll probably be disappointed, ha!  Do we have an air date for when Gates will start?

[absnow54]

9 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Color me shocked that Lucky spoke at the funeral. They didn't even share a scene. 

This just reminds me of Larry and the hot but typo a billion years ago. 

[tessaray]

6 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

I am very excited about this, which means I’ll probably be disappointed, ha!  Do we have an air date for when Gates will start?

Feb 24th? Or thereabouts.

There is a forum for the show, if you want to keep track.

[backhometome]

Sam had a decent funeral. Lots of nice speeches. Not including Carly of course. 🙄 She always has to be included.

Spinelli really got to me. Him and Sam were quite close back in the day. And the first one to treat him as a human being. Of course it led to him meeting his true love Jason. 😑

Loved the Sam montage at the end. 

Lulu waking up the day of Sam's funeral is petty. Whatever never liked any version of the shrewLu.

[Asp Burger]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Drew knows how much [Ric] hates Jason. You could see Ric practically licking his chops at the thought of going after Jason.

I had to think about this, and then I thought, oh, of course. Even though Drew wasn't a gleam in any writer's eye in the 2000s, when the Ric/Jason hatred was at its hottest, Drew has many of Jason's memories. Still has them, I guess. At one time, he believed he was the person who had beaten Ric nearly to death in a parking garage in 2006, after Ric said that Sam was only one step above a cheap hooker.  And all the rest of their bad encounters before and after.  

See, this is one reason I wish soaps wouldn't go too sci-fi on us. It isn't only that I like soaps to be grounded and realistic, although my favorite periods usually are that way. It's because it's hard enough to remember who knows about what, with actors leaving and coming back, characters being on and off canvas, recast actors nothing like the earlier ones. When they start adding flash drives that can upload a guy's memories into a previously undisclosed twin brother, and all the different layers of complication that have followed (Franco having all the Drew memories for a while, etc.), it starts to seem far more work than it's worth.

I have a hard time remembering what the CM Drew does know. It would be simpler if I could just look at him and think he's a dumbass who's been elected to Congress and is having an affair with his nephew's wife.

Edited Tuesday at 08:27 PM by Asp Burger

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

This just reminds me of Larry and the hot but typo a billion years ago. 

That's hot butt!😅

[Bringonthedrama]

24 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Color me shocked that Lucky spoke at the funeral. They didn't even share a scene. 

JJ's Lucky and Sam were in at least one scene together during JJ's Fall 2009-December 2011 run. I remember Lucky went to check up on Lulu and had a scene with JMB's Lulu and Sam because original Franco kidnapped the two women, told Jason he strapped them both to bombs and it was up to Jason to save one/decide who lived and who died.  

[statsgirl]

What struck me mot through all this episode is how insulting it is to Kelly Monaco that they are spending weeks of screentime eulogizing Sam after she was fired. This is what a longtime character like Bobbie should have got when JZ died. Not a character who died because Frank was petty about the actress.

That said, the actors really rose to the occasion, especially NLG and DZ, and I enjoyed the flashbacks.

12 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Why was Nina there expect to comment about Jason's presence.

She's angry at Jason for hitting Drew cuz she doesn't know that Drew slept with Willow a few days ago.

Honestly, I was surprised that Drew was there because CM's Drew has zero in common with BM's Drew other than the name.

6 hours ago, nilyank said:

 After her mom and her almost being killed by Cyrus, Heather the Hook, Esme, being arrested/going to trial for the recent porn and Spencer dying, this class project seem pretty low stakes to waste this much emotional anger on.

I think it's a result of the terrible story running and writing. Only Carly's children get real storylines (look at poor Chase compared to Michael, or Dante given how much superior an actor DZ is compared to CD) and everyone else gets leftover sitcom or romcom stories.

[sacrebleu]

8 hours ago, ljr said:

Why does lucky still look like he hasn’t washed his hair?

The trina character should have moved back to Paris. The actress is a storyline that seems like it should be in a sitcom. It’s not very soapy to be angry about a class project.

I can't get past the plot point writing that has Trina, a junior who gave up a semester at the Sorbonne, in the same Art History class as a jock who only took it as an easy A. 

[YaddaYadda]

31 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

JJ's Lucky and Sam were in at least one scene together during JJ's Fall 2009-December 2011 run. I remember Lucky went to check up on Lulu and had a scene with JMB's Lulu and Sam because original Franco kidnapped the two women, told Jason he strapped them both to bombs and it was up to Jason to save one/decide who lived and who died.  

I was talking about this recent return. They were in the same scene with Elizabeth and Jason, but did not say boo to each other.

The little girl who plays Scout has been really good with the quiet grief. Scout looks so broken.

Laura and Maxie have been taking care of Lulu's hands, but neither thought of investing in some chapstick.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Laura and Maxie have been taking care of Lulu's hands, but neither thought of investing in some chapstick.

But she had that oxygen mask over her face, so how could they soothe her lips?

Of course that was so we, the idiot viewers who don't read and didn't know the role had been recast, couldn't see this decade's "wig on a stick" until newnewLulu showed up.

[dubbel zout]

Whichever kid was walking about Sam giving him and his dad a family (so, Rocco?) had the best remembrance. And the other kid's remembrance—so,  Danny—was good. Jason's was so hollow-sounding, considering he dumped his family to save Carly and hers. Alexis's was pretty good. Molly and Kristina's felt a bit pro forma, telling us stuff we didn't see. Carly's and Elizabeth's were okay; at least they acknowledged things were rocky between them and Sam for quite a while.

2 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

And why on G-d's green earth was Gio (not sure he ever even met Sam and playing violin as people left seemed out of place) included in the funeral

Is Giovanni Mazza on contract? If so, this feels like a minimums appearance. Lucas wasn't at the funeral because one of the boys yelled at him for killing Sam and Lucas decided his presence would only upset everyone.

The flashbacks with Sam and Sonny were really gross.

Again, I'm really bummed nuLulu didn't stagger into the church: "I'm alive!"

Edited Tuesday at 10:40 PM by dubbel zout
"telling us stuff we didn't see" is what I mean

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, dubbel zout said:

Lucas wasn't at the funeral because one of the boys yelled at him for killing Sam and Lucas decided his presence would only upset everyone.

That was Danny.

1 minute ago, dubbel zout said:

Again, I'm really bummed nuLulu didn't stagger into the church: "I'm alive!"

What, do you think she's Cujo (Tamara Braun, who stumbled into Church? Were Mooby and Alexis going to get married or something?)

[JMO]

The funeral was more than I've come to expect from GH.  Of course NLG was wonderful, but I think I was even more moved by BA's Spinelli and the character's genuine gratitude and sorrow.  The kids were excellent, and I continue to be impressed with DZ's portrayal of restrained grief, someone who was lost and then found by Sam, who can't afford to be lost again, for the sake of the kids.  For me, it's still the loss of that little family, the disruption of the normal daily experience of coming home to a mom and a dad, and now maybe not even living in the same place, with the same people.  Sam and Dante built that family for a reason that went beyond their own relationship, and now it may all be gone.  

The rest were just okay for me, but that's probably all they were meant to be.  I was not surprised to see Gio, who spent the summer bonding with the kids at the Q's and who offered his gift of music at the end.  I was surprised not to see Ned, yet again.  I also think Alexis is due some sort of message from Jax, at the very least.

Thanks to everyone who gave background on Ric.  I cannot generate the remotest interest in the character, so I guess I'll just tolerate him until his contract is up.

[PatsyandEddie]

Alexis sitting by herself in the church while Gio played was heart breaking. The pain of having to put a child in the ground is immense and wanting to delay that moment and having her other two daughters come in so they could all be together once last time was such a real moment.