Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[tessaray]

6 hours ago, PatsyandEddie said:

I think Chase and BL are coming from a place of love so I can understand their intentions. 

Oh, I know. 🙂 It's just that their earnestness brings out the snarky curmudgeon in me. 

6 hours ago, lala2 said:

IMO, they did Fiz fans dirty. They didn’t even let Liz give Finn a chance. She just immediately dumped him. The man’s father died and he relapsed. She could have tried to be a little understanding. And I’m not saying Liz should stick around and be treated like crap but Finn didn’t really do that much, IMO

This is where they really needed Lucky and Maxie flashbacks to help tell Liz's side of the story. I get that addiction (and cheating) is a red line for her.  I think most people with past experience with substance abuse in a family would probably sympathize with her but the writing here is awful and makes her look like a cold-hearted witch.

Edited June 11 by tessaray

[dubbel zout]

10 minutes ago, tessaray said:

This is where they really needed Lucky and Maxie flashbacks to help tell Liz's side of the story.

They could at least have her say "I went through this with Lucky and I can't do it again." Even that would help.

Edited June 10 by dubbel zout

[Sake614]

1 hour ago, lala2 said:

IMO, they did Fiz fans dirty. They didn’t even let Liz give Finn a chance. She just immediately dumped him. The man’s father died and he relapsed. She could have tried to be a little understanding. And I’m not saying Liz should stick around and be treated like crap but Finn didn’t really do that much, IMO. Not enough for an insta-dumping but that’s just me. And the Jason scenes —— completely unnecessary IMO. She didn’t need rescuing. 

I hate heavy-handed writing. It’s just bad storytelling if you ask me. 

I always enjoy Drina so that was a highlight for me! 

I can see it. Liz is coming from a place of experience. I wasn’t crazy about her attitude toward Finn initially but today she was spot on. I don’t care how badly he’s hurting. He made a choice to bring some random woman home with him. Did he know Jake would see him and tell Liz?  Of course not. But it was still a choice. 

No, Liz didn’t need saving. And yes Jason’s ‘get your hands off her’ and ‘don’t go near her again’ was OTT.  But I thought the pool scenes were very nice. Doesn’t mean I want to see Liason, although an added bonus is it would make Carly’s head explode all over the hotel. And I’d so be here for that 🤣

[KittenPokerCheater]

3 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

The line about the Q mansion being a place for neglected children of Port Charles was a great zinger!

I had such a good laugh about this.  I love Tracey.

While I am happy that Liz/Finn have broken up, I will be pissed off if they put Liz and Jason back together again.

[Auntie Velvet]

I think enough time has gone by to officially say that SBu seems to have returned to GH a better actor. It may be that he has grown artistically, or just that they haven't thrown Jason into a super-mobby story with Sonny.

I've also been impressed with the Violet scenes. She's given a good, subdued performance in the last week or two as she's grieved her grandfather. I thought there'd be a lot "Is that like the Rainbow Bridge, Daddy?" type of pathos, but it's been much better than that, in terms of both the writing and acting.

 

[ljr]

Drew and Nina work in a hotel why can’t they get a room?

[JMO]

Can't tell if we got the Liz/Finn montage to make the breakup hurt more, or if they realized they'd forgotten to write them together for so long that they had to remind us they had been a couple.  Regardless, it seems like they are over.  So what next for Liz?  

Elizabeth is a great character, treated poorly by writers for decades, for reasons that elude me.  She ties us right back to the origins of GH and she deserves better than to be involved with gangster, felonious, terminally ill, addicted partners.  It's time for Liz to have a grand romance with an upright character, so that the Webber and Hardy heritage can move firmly into the future.  Of the options currently on the canvas, I think only John Cates even remotely fits the bill.  Or might there be a better option on the horizon?  Surely not Jason.

 

[Desperado]

The writers chose to make Finn a jerk and absolve Jason for him staying away from his kids FOR CARLY, at the same time.

Hate it.

They succeeded in me moving from “get Finn away from my screen, Fizz is so blah” to being p*ssed about what happens to them. That’s an achievement, I guess.

[ciarra]

So Jason is the better option here?  At least no one is shooting at Finn.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, tessaray said:

This is where they really needed Lucky and Maxie flashbacks to help tell Liz's side of the story.

 

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

They could at least have her say "I went through this with Lucky and I can't do it again." Even that would help.

Agree! And even if it’s verboten for Elizabeth to speak Lucky’s name, they could have added “again” after she said “I can’t go through this.”  so viewers unfamiliar with her history could get a eensy-weensy hint.

While Elizabeth and Jason were one of my favorites back in the day, I don’t want Jason for her now. I wouldn’t mind her with Jagger because he’s a GOOD guy. But I’m sure it won’t be long before Korte and Van Etten ruin him. So I’m not getting my hopes up.

That said, I hope Jagger rips Anna a new one in the previews we got for tomorrow.

Edited June 10 by GHScorpiosRule

[Bringonthedrama]

49 minutes ago, JMO said:

Can't tell if we got the Liz/Finn montage to make the breakup hurt more, or if they realized they'd forgotten to write them together for so long that they had to remind us they had been a couple.  Regardless, it seems like they are over.  

I thought it was to drive home the point that Finn lost a relationship with someone he loved due to his drinking/addiction. The montage included the scene of him saying ILY to her. "Reminding" the audience was unnecessary, because in the bar scenes Jake told his friends that Finn is his mother's "boyfriend." Then when Elizabeth let herself in to Finn's apartment and caught him with Barb, she said she's the "ex-girlfriend," i.e. now that I've seen Finn drinking and cheating, I've decided this relationship is absolutely over. 

[Tenshinhan]

I hope we get to see Finn pay a little visit to Jason and tell him he'll do whatever the fuck he pleases and Jason ain't gonna do shit about it.

[Blackie]

1 hour ago, Auntie Velvet said:

It may be that he has grown artistically, or just that they haven't thrown Jason into a super-mobby story with Sonny.

And MB was better when he wasn't in a super mobby story with Jason, hmmm?

 

[Steph J]

2 hours ago, Auntie Velvet said:

I think enough time has gone by to officially say that SBu seems to have returned to GH a better actor. It may be that he has grown artistically, or just that they haven't thrown Jason into a super-mobby story with Sonny.

I think it's that he's actually making an effort again. I always thought he was a decent to good actor in the '90s/early 00s, but at some point he went on autopilot and just stopped trying. I wasn't at all excited about him coming back, but I've been pleasantly surprised so far. He's actually emoting!

[Artsda]

Nina looked great today. 

Joss and Dex plus Willow and Michael broke up all the negative. 

Liz's anger at Finn comes out badly. They should let her give her side instead of the attitude she's been giving since Gregory died.  Yes she did this dance before but they voice none of it, it's just all attacking of Finn for past 2 days of mourning his dad.  He walked in and found his dad dead and she gives him nothing but attitude including today making all about her and her kids?   

Instead Jason the mobster has to come save the day,  she's good and thankful to the man who abandoned her son and was in a shoot out when? Yesterday in GH time? But she's concerned about her kids safety with Finn? 

Jake called the dead beat dad? Jake hating him was the bright spot of him. 

Drunk Finn is like Off meds Sonny calling out Jason, Finn is not wrong. He wasn't wrong that she hasn't been around or there for him. He's not wrong that he stood by her through her major mental issues and he could have point out the Esme/Nik era of locked up crimes he also forgave.  She couldn't support him 48 hours. Lol

[tessaray]

To be fair, Liz did support Finn through the whole Peter debacle. Literally helped him move a body. So it wasn't all one way support.

[GHScorpiosRule]

14 minutes ago, tessaray said:

To be fair, Liz did support Finn through the whole Peter debacle. Literally helped him move a body. So it wasn't all one way support.

Not only that, but she offered to stay with him and help him after Gregory’s service. That she loved him. But he told her he wanted to be alone. Was she supposed to insist and ignore his wishes?

And since Show has decided to put Finn in this down spiral of drinking, fine. But there was no need for him to go pick up some skank, bring her into his place to mack on and probably boink had Elizabeth not shown up.

And then all that BULLSHIT about her not loving him, not being there for him, and that pathetic “let me explain”? Yeah, explain how the only thing you could do was bar crawling because one place for a meeting had closed or something. Asshole.

Together or not, Becky and Steve have always had that chemistry; just as he does with Kimberly.

Edited June 11 by GHScorpiosRule

[tessaray]

If they had fleshed out the Fiz stuff even a little it could have been pretty good. I grew up in a family of addicts and alcoholics and there's no one more thin-skinned than a practicing addict. Elizabeth's rigidity and withdrawal is something I also recognize. Neither one is necessarily the bad guy in this situation (addiction is a disease) but it's sad because they can't connect for all the reasons. 

Edited June 11 by tessaray

[Cheyanne11]

Tracy again had the line of the day about how the neglected children of Port Charles all enjoy the Q mansion.  She also gave Chase and Brooklyn good advice. 

Michael continues to be utterly obnoxious when it comes to Nina (no matter how many times the variety pack of writers says it, Nina didn't "send Drew to prison").  Honestly, Willow saying she was just ready to let it go/get passed it was a perfectly acceptable answer, but Michael looked like she was trying to explain advanced physics to him.  And I hope you all ducked to miss the anvil where she said it's so nice how there are no secrets anymore (since, of course, it'll all be Nina's fault that Drew is screwing her).

Jason with his feet in the pool and the look on his face was funny, but I certainly don't need or want a Liason repeat.  Even less wanted his a Dex/Joss reunion, but that's inevitable and I can just FF thru them.  I like Elizabeth, though, and would just like BH to get a good storyline for once.

[lilabennet]

They destroyed Jason's characterization at a core level when he got back together with Sam after she hurt Jake. I have never been able to look at him the same way ever since. It would take a lot of work to repair his character to the point where he makes sense with Elizabeth again for me. And I know they would never put in the effort it would take, because it would mean acknowledging that they broke his character in the first place, which the cowards would never do.

[Bringonthedrama]

3 minutes ago, lilabennet said:

They destroyed Jason's characterization at a core level when he got back together with Sam after she hurt Jake. I have never been able to look at him the same way ever since. 

The writers were trying to sell that Sam was "redeemed" in his eyes by going with him after the kidnappers and jumping out the window with toddler Jake when the bar (?) exploded.  It was in the writing and SB's acting that as Jason was driving with Sam and Jake back to Elizabeth's after the rescue, he felt crushing guilt over Jake being kidnapped and nearly killed because of him. Even Elizabeth had a line about being forever grateful to Sam for saving Jake.

[lilabennet]

Just now, Bringonthedrama said:

The writers were trying to sell that Sam was "redeemed" in his eyes by going with him after the kidnappers and jumping out the window with toddler Jake when the bar (?) exploded.  It was in the writing and SB's acting that as Jason was driving with Sam and Jake back to Elizabeth's after the rescue, he felt crushing guilt over Jake being kidnapped and nearly killed because of him. Even Elizabeth had a line about being forever grateful to Sam for saving Jake.

Not good enough.

[Asp Burger]

 

I think enough time has gone by to officially say that SBu seems to have returned to GH a better actor. It may be that he has grown artistically, or just that they haven't thrown Jason into a super-mobby story with Sonny.

Agreeing with @GHScorpiosRulethat he's always been good opposite certain people, and Herbst has always been one of them.

I'm not a Burton fan, but as Jason Morgan, he's best when the writing lets him struggle against the robo-assassin straitjacket a little, and act in a way that reminds us there's a real boy in there. He needs scene partners who can both carry the burden of saying most of the words and be a good listener when Jason does contribute something. Herbst is one; McCullough was another, and Leslie Charleson (different sort of onscreen relationship). Kelly Thiebaud had promise too. Laura Wright, Kelly Monaco, and ALW are examples of people who played a ton of Jason scenes without ever really hitting that sweet spot (IMO). 

Edited June 11 by Asp Burger

[YaddaYadda]

 

And I hope you all ducked to miss the anvil where she said it's so nice how there are no secrets anymore (since, of course, it'll all be Nina's fault that Drew is screwing her).

Honestly, this is none of Willow's business who her mother is sleeping with. She and Drew are unattached, so neither is cheating.

I wonder how they're going to make Nina the bad guy. 

Willow: How dare she sleep with him when I wanted to!!

[Artsda]

 

To be fair, Liz did support Finn through the whole Peter debacle. Literally helped him move a body. So it wasn't all one way support.

That was more then working together not him actually needing support through grief and a disease.

Her mental breakdown he was there, even after what she did came out. Then all her Nikolas aiding he was there. Even when she didn't care about her kids then. His father dies and she was basically out with no compassion yet she told Jason she wanted to be there and they acted like it was all Finn bad. Within hours she was telling on him to Portia even. 

 

. 

 

Edited June 11 by Artsda

[tessaray]

 

That was more then working together not him actually needing support through grief and a disease.

Her mental breakdown he was there, even after what she did came out. Then all her Nikolas aiding he was there. Even when she didn't care about her kids then. His father dies and she was basically out with no compassion yet she told Jason she wanted to be there and they acted like it was all Finn bad. Within hours she was telling on him to Portia even. 

 

I remember Finn being emotionally distraught that Chase was dying and that the antidote may have disappeared with Peter's death. Didn't he still think that Chase might be his son then too? (It's been awhile.) She was there day and night, supporting him. Though looking back it was more as a committed friend - which was meant to be the first step in their changing relationship, right?

Anyway, I agree that Elizabeth has been uncharacteristically cold throughout this latest crisis. The Portia thing was way out of line too. Still, better writers would have given us something more to explain her behavior. And having it all end with a Liason moment was not a great look, though maybe that's just me. 

I remember getting whiplash when the writers went from Britt and Jason (real pathos reminiscent of the girl with no future...) to the awful Jarly. This feels the same. Throw fans of the couple a montage and move on to the next plot point. 

[Bringonthedrama]

 

IMO, they did Fiz fans dirty. They didn’t even let Liz give Finn a chance. She just immediately dumped him. The man’s father died and he relapsed. She could have tried to be a little understanding. And I’m not saying Liz should stick around and be treated like crap but Finn didn’t really do that much, IMO. Not enough for an insta-dumping but that’s just me.

Think of the context. He told her he had no desire to drink again and was going to meetings. He told her he felt horrible for the way he had spoken to her. Not long after that (hours? a day at most?) he chose to go to a bar and do shots, then bring a strange woman home from the bar for an anonymous ONS. We know from Jake's line to his friends that Elizabeth and Finn were still in a relationship at this time. Elizabeth enters and sees Finn drunk with this woman, but Finn does not ask the woman to leave or apologize to either woman.  Instead, he accuses Elizabeth of abandoning him and tells her to leave her keys. 

The only thing Finn didn't do was call her names or try to hit her. She didn't "need" Jason to show up, but I think we as the audience must understand that Jake is a worried teenager who had no idea of what Finn could be capable of while drunk and in a confrontation with Elizabeth. The only men currently on the show with a history with Elizabeth who could step up to help her are Drew and Jason. (I don't count former FIL Scotty because he is older and could get hurt.) The show has effectively erased Drew's past relationships with Jake and Elizabeth. That leaves Jason, who Jake knows has plenty of experience handling dangerous situations. 

[ccphilly]

 

That leaves Jason, who Jake knows has plenty of experience handling dangerous situations. 

I think that this is show's way of having Jake and Jason come together, not putting Liz and Jason back together.  I don't want Liz with Jason, but I really liked their scenes at the pool.  In the GH in my head, Carly's Head of Security mentions that Jason was at the pool with a woman.  She looks at the camera footage and her head explodes.  

 

 

 

[dubbel zout]

I feel like if Jason and Elizabeth become a couple now it's because of his guilt at being such a crappy father. That's gross for everyone.

Edited June 11 by dubbel zout

[Blackie]

A "full blown alcoholic spiral" ???  Please show, that is insulting.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Was the show interrupted on the East coast due to the "breaking news" from this morning?

[Bringonthedrama]

6 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Was the show interrupted on the East coast due to the "breaking news" from this morning?

No. I enjoyed seeing Becky Herbst rock her scenes with HW and the new actor who plays Aiden. 

JS is rocking his scenes as well. I felt bad for Chase when Finn was all "I'm not going to let you and BL steal my daughter."

Edited June 11 by Bringonthedrama

[ffwbe]

If Jagger wasn’t playing Sam, he’s got to be the dumbest man alive. He knew who Elizabeth and Danny were but were supposed to believe he wouldn’t recognize Sam, who coincidentally was telling him about her ex who just came back from the dead?

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, Bringonthedrama said:

I enjoyed seeing Becky Herbst rock her scenes with HW

Did Jake admit he was in the bar?

1 minute ago, ffwbe said:

If Jagger wasn’t playing Sam, he’s got to be the dumbest man alive.

So far, this iteration of Jagger isn't dumb, so I have to believe he's playing her. Because she's stupid.

All I want to know is if Jagger ripped Anna a new one.

[CeChase]

4 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

If Jagger wasn’t playing Sam, he’s got to be the dumbest man alive. He knew who Elizabeth and Danny were but were supposed to believe he wouldn’t recognize Sam, who coincidentally was telling him about her ex who just came back from the dead?

It would be so fantastic if they were playing each other.  They look hot together.  Although I am a Sante fan, so...

[Bringonthedrama]

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Did Jake admit he was in the bar?

So far, this iteration of Jagger isn't dumb, so I have to believe he's playing her. Because she's stupid.

All I want to know is if Jagger ripped Anna a new one.

Not outright. Aiden and Elizabeth both figured out Jake wasn't where he was "supposed to be" and Elizabeth said she was going to address that with him later but was proud that he came to her and then called Jason about Finn because she always wants him to come to his mom when there is serious trouble. I like that the Elizabeth/Jake conversation ended with a hug.

No. Jagger very briefly implied that Brennan and Anna are up to no good. He then lef the hospital room and went off to be a target of Spinelli's "stealth."

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

No. Jagger very briefly implied that Brennan and Anna are up to no good. He then lef the hospital room and went off to be a target of Spinelli's "stealth."

[YaddaYadda]

34 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

If Jagger wasn’t playing Sam, he’s got to be the dumbest man alive. He knew who Elizabeth and Danny were but were supposed to believe he wouldn’t recognize Sam, who coincidentally was telling him about her ex who just came back from the dead?

I think he knew because he seemed to actually feel bad.

[ciarra]

1 hour ago, ffwbe said:

If Jagger wasn’t playing Sam

I read that wrong, as in "the role of Sam McCall is now being played by Adam Harrington".  I had a vision of big, hulking Jagger in a bustier and stilettos.

[rur]

2 hours ago, ffwbe said:

If Jagger wasn’t playing Sam, he’s got to be the dumbest man alive. He knew who Elizabeth and Danny were but were supposed to believe he wouldn’t recognize Sam, who coincidentally was telling him about her ex who just came back from the dead?

This, at least twice. Please tell me any agent worth his salt wouldn't know exactly who his stooge's ex-wife was and what she looked like. And that he wouldn't be suspicious of any stranger who started telling him details about life with her ex-husband if he'd just met her two minutes earlier. 

If he truly didn't know, then the dumbing down of Jagger to help deify the holy hitman has definitely begun. 

Edited June 11 by rur

[dubbel zout]

Sam's pool outfit was very subtle. That whole caper was so embarrassing to watch.

The circumstances are very different, but Elizabeth putting aside that Jake wasn't where he should have been reminded me of when Cam got drunk and she said to him the next morning: "Oh, it's baby's first hangover." Hee.

The Finn/Chase confrontations were good. I don't think I've seen Michael Easton that animated in a long time. He usually rivals Kelly Monaco in who can be sleepier.

[Cheyanne11]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Sam's pool outfit was very subtle. That whole caper was so embarrassing to watch.

Embarrassing and infuriating.  I refuse to believe the Heckle and Jeckle of private eyes got one over on an FBI agent.  Absolute bullshit.  Also, I thought Spinelli had moved back in with Maxie--why was he camped out in the MC?

The Finn/Chase scenes felt very real.  If Finn doesn't want people calling him an alcoholic maybe stop acting like one--just a thought. 

[Artsda]

Nice of them to put up the tribute to Johnny. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I’m wondering if Anna and Jagger have hatched a plan to catch Brennan by having Jagger accuse Anna of being the head of Pikeman? But still Anna is keeping quiet about Valentin?

Jagger CANNOT be this stupid. I could have sworn he and Dam crossed paths when Dante was in a coma. Or is that wishful thinking and the show forgot? But he was looking at her, not with suspicion exactly, but something. And it was just embarrassing that the writers thought Sam doing whatever it was she was doing was supposed have viewers “ooohing” and “ahhhhing”? UGH.

This sudden anger, bitterness of Finn against Chase makes NO SENSE to me. It’s only making me dislike Finn more.

[ciarra]

When Finn says "You can't take Violet away from me!"

No one says, "let me look up the number for Child Protective Services"?

[Bringonthedrama]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

This sudden anger, bitterness of Finn against Chase makes NO SENSE to me. It’s only making me dislike Finn more.

Chase has called him out on his drinking and that right now he's not in a state of mind to be a stable parent to Violet. He even brought up seeing this behavior in house calls as a police officer. Finn resents being compared to people whose lives are out of control from alcoholism/addiction.   Finn knows Chase is telling truths he doesn't want to hear and so he's defensive and angry.

I have addicts in my family; this sort of behavior strikes me as accurate.  

I think Finn also sees his little brother having it all: long-term great relationship with their dad, their dad officiated at Chase and BLQ's beautiful wedding, Chase is a respected police detective and starting married life with a wife who really loves him, and their dad chose him as executor of the will.

Whereas Finn has regrets about his dad, is haunted about finding dad deceased in the bed, Elizabeth has officially broken up with him upon finding him drunk and cheating, and he knows he will not be practicing medicine in his current condition since his ex-girlfriend who is a nurse at GH and his brother who works for the PCPD both are watching him.

[CeChase]

I liked the pool scenes with Sam and Jagger.  I thought it was so cute.   Well, and his being shirtless didn't hurt. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

I think Finn also sees his little brother having it all: long-term great relationship with their dad, their dad officiated at Chase and BLQ's beautiful wedding, Chase is a respected police detective and starting married life with a wife who really loves him, and their dad chose him as executor of the will.

Whereas Finn has regrets about his dad, is haunted about finding dad deceased in the bed,

This is what I don't get. It's not as if Finn and Gregory were on the outs when he died. They were also in a very good place. It would make more sense-story-wise, had they still not resolved all their differences.

But Korte and Van Etten are going to do what they want to do, so whatever.

And OMG, Jagger BETTER be playing Sam. He can't be that stupid. Or has the dumbing down of Jagger begun?

[rur]

13 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Sam's pool outfit was very subtle. That whole caper was so embarrassing to watch.

 

I've said it before, but Sam's only PI investigative tactic is to get close to a man and exude pheromones, and I always suffer secondhand embarrassment watching her. 

I'd love it if, when Sam and Spinelli finally open Jason's file, their pictures were on page 1 as Known Associates. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 minutes ago, rur said:

I've said it before, but Sam's only PI investigative tactic is to get close to a man and exude pheromones, and I always suffer secondhand embarrassment watching her. 

I'd love it if, when Sam and Spinelli finally open Jason's file, their pictures were on page 1 as Known Associates. 

It was beyond second hand embarrassment. It was beyond cringeworthy. And I hate that Show is making Jagger look stupid. Like he wouldn't have KNOWN who Sam is when he put together Jason's file?!

I hope when Jar Jar Binks tries to get more information, a red buzzing sound will scream out of his laptop and Jagger's ID files will be flagged, so that idiot man-child will have to quickly shut down his laptop and they get NOTHING.

Oh, and I also want a horsie.